Glider sites - Do you call them?

[Mr Cessna]

A week or so back I was on route to Woodbridge (disused), for a Navex and as I passed overhead Wormingford Glider site at 2,900ft I was told by instructor to keep a VERY GOOD lookout for gliders. A few seconds later out to our left were several gliders, one of which seemed to be comming closer to us each second. Instructor took control and put aircraft into climbing right turn until glider was well away from us.

I was just wondering how everybody else deals with glider sites, do you;

keep well away from them?
Give them a call?
Keep a listening watch?
or as we did just fly through BUT keep a good lookout?

On the ground before the flight I was aware that we would be flying through Wormingford and asked instructor if we should give them a call on 129.975, he said no, just lookout.

Thanks :ok:

[BackPacker]

In my (limited) experience I have found that glider sites operate essentially non-radio. They would be very surprised if every Dick, Tom and Harry who passed close by would be calling them up. And even a listening watch will not tell you a lot.

Glider sites are best avoided by, say, 5 nm and if you do fly overhead, make sure you are well above the height that's indicated on the chart. That height will be the maximum height that can be reached by the winch and for obvious reasons the circuit height will be below that.

Having said that, gliders can be anywhere and are definitely not limited to the 5 nm radius that I mentioned. But you will avoid virtually all the instructional/solo flights and circuit traffic that way.

Another tactic is to fly *above* the bases of the Cu clouds - in other words in between or above the Cu clouds, but not underneath. Gliders have no easy way of climbing above the base of Cu clouds unless they enter the clouds - which only very few will do.

[ShyTorque]

Lookout should always be paramount.

I don't routinely call glider sites but instead keep well clear and avoid flying through the overhead. I also think about the prevailing conditions and where gliders might be operating around sites. According to my chart, Wormingford launches up to 3,300 ft so going over below that altitude is unwise.

[Parapunter]

Not forgetting hang & paragliders which are well capable of climbing to cloudbase & toddling off on long xc's.

Most air maps have them marked although there are notable exceptions, in fact I recall setting up for takeoff at Mount Caburn near Lewes a few years ago when a mill jet came screaming over the back of takeoff at about 50' ato, then did it again five minutes later - it was us who kept a good lookout that day.

One clue is the more unstable the day, the more likely you are to see gliders bobbing about the sky. It's all about the thermals innit.

[junction34]

If I was going to remain obviously clear of the gliding site then there's not much point in calling. At 2500-3000ft you'll find gliders 10-15 miles from the field even when not flying cross country, so proximity to the site is not really an issue. A good visual lookout is always important.

However, if I was passing through the overhead or on any track that could be confused with a join then I'd give them a call. What you don't want to do is inadvertently interfere with the glider launching. For example, the duty pilot may have an early solo pilot ready to launch - and may be holding off doing so with unidentified inbound traffic. 1000ft height difference a few miles out isn't always obvious from the ground.

If you're going to be remaining in the vicinity of the gliding site for a while, then giving them a call would always be worthwhile.

[ProfChrisReed]

Calling a gliding site is probably not much use, because all they can tell you is if a launch is about to start. What the gliders already airborne might do is dictated by the conditions, training exercises (plenty of spinning) etc, and is unlikely to be known by those on the ground.

There are three types of traffic to consider:

1. Gliders and tugs on launch or in the circuit. Circuits will be very tight by power standards. Winch launches should be a major concern - for example, I've flown from Wormingford and they have a long run and a powerful winch. With 15kt SW winds it's quite possible that launches will reach 3,000ft agl, 3,300 msl. 2,900 overhead was not a good place to be!

2. Local soaring gliders will generally be concentrated in a cone on the upwind side of the airfield, because this makes getting back more likely if the pilot can't find more lift.

3. XC gliders could be anywhere at all - 500km flights have been flown from Wormingford. What to watch out for on the NOTAMS is competition grids, as these tend to fly around in gaggles or streams, all taking the same course. Unfortunately the task is set on the day, and sometimes changed as the weather conditions become clearer, so the NOTAMS won't tell you the route.

If you were flying near a gliding site with a NOTAMed competition it might well be worth making the call (129.975 or 130.1). If the grid is launching all the gliders will be dropped in roughly the same place, and it would be worth knowing about this. If gliders have started to return they may be final gliding at 100kt+, and it would be worth knowing the direction they will be coming from.

[Humaround]

All of the above, plus it's probably worth noting that below about 3000' you are much more likely to encounter a glider upwind of the gliding site than downwind - so give the upwind side an even wider berth.

[chevvron]

I wouldn't recommend flying directly overhead any glider launch site, but it's mainly the cable launch hazard that you need to worry about. While a glider itself will be visible, the cables, being steel, are very narrow and difficult to see, they will also easily saw through a metal or wood/fabric wing, so avoid flying below the cable launch height shown on CAA/NATS published charts (not sure if they're shown on charts from other publishers)

[RatherBeFlying]

Our club and many others do have radios.

If there's a frequency, a call to traffic or ground will always be appreciated.

The proportion of students close to the drome below cloudbase and upwind will be high -- and on a middling day, everybody else will be hanging out there too:p

On a good day when it's bouncy below the cu, we'll be there trying to bag that 300 or 500 km task:ok:

The air ambulance, pipeline patrol and one airline are good at making calls.

But there's a whole bunch of itinerant traffic including some twin turboprop outfits and one jet operator (now inop) that should know better that obliviously blast through.

[patowalker]

... shown on CAA published charts ...

I hope nobody is using a CAA published chart. They are all out of date. :)

VFR & Chart Information | Airspace Policy (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=64)

[Cusco]

I don't think there's much point in trying to call gliding sites: just know where they are.

And IMHO it was remiss of your instructor even to consider allowing you to overfly a gliding site in the first place.

As many have said Wormingford's winch can lob gliders up to 3500ft.

The folly of your route overhead Wormingford was ably demonstrated when you had to take avoiding action.

Far better just not to be there.

Cusco

[snapper1]

As a regular duty pilot at a gliding site I can tell you that as soon as your engine is heard everyone is alert to the possibility of you getting too close. Someone will then spot you and report your position. I will then watch you carefully to determine your track. If I think that you are well clear of the site I'll continue launching gliders. If not I will stop launching until you are clear. Gliders already airborne will be looking out for each other and are likely to see you before you see them. Calling me on the radio won't achieve anything. Please don't fly into our circuit or, if you are going over the top, do so at a height above that shown on the chart.
Happy flying, and thanks for asking the question.

[JP1]

When I use to fly gliders from Farnborough (and operate the radio when on the ground) I was once called up by a hot air balloon and 2 Sea Kings transiting the area!!

[MartinCh]

WOW. 3-3.5k from winch. Our release height about 1k+-200ft depending on glider and wind, is nothing compared to this. Too small place for 2-3k release height. I wish, on those 'circuit days' when aerotow would be simply decadent money burning on lowish budget.

True, power guys are likely to be spotted before they see 'us' free flyers.

If one really has to fly near gliding site on their power XC flight, then I guess it's best to pretend it's meatbombing site. :}

As for the frequencies, even if published, they may be monitored on the ground only. Air to air gliding freq's probably wouldn't be suitable and many 'poodling around' wooden or rag'n'tube gliders may not have radios at all. But then, they'd be more colourful, slow and trying to climb in lift, staying over one area.

[cats_five]

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall for your briefing. You were on a Navex, presumably the instructor asked you to plan a route, and quite possibly asked you to do one that unless you thought about it would take you over a gliding site... I am surprised he let you actually fly over it though. Maybe his own appreciation of the dangers of winch wires isn't what it could be.

[IFMU]

Here in the US, most glider pilots regard the radio as a superstition. Seems like one thing we have in common with our compatriots across the pond. I agree with backpacker, get above cloudbase and there is little chance of a conflict. That, and see & avoid.

-- IFMU

[snapper1]

To fly above cloud base on a thermic day would keep anyone clear of most gliders. But as has been said before, some gliders will use the lift that's present within the Cu to climb higher. The British Gliding Association has strict rules governing cloud flying and its usually only very experienced pilots who do it.

When Mountain Lee Wave is present however, gliders will take advantage of this and will fly above cloud base AND tops. Wave can be present well away from the mountains/hills that are creating it, for example in the Vale of York when there is a good westerly. Mr Cessna may not be flying in these conditions at his current stage of training but he might like to discuss the scenario with his instructor.

[cumulusrider]

I fly from Lasham gliding. Some sites like ours can be very busy. For example when launching a comptition grid we can have 200+ movements per hour.
The height achieved with the winch depends on the wind strength. Zero wind about 2000ft agl, into a 20knt wind up to our max permitted of 3000ft agl.
Most cross country flying takes place in the top half between ground and cloadbase. However on final glide they will be between these heights and circuit height and typically travelling at high speed 120-160knts.
Big sites like ours have our own frequency and would appreciate a call. I have even spoken to the red arrows in the past.
Our site has launching from the main runway and both left and right landing circuits being flown simultaneously landing on the grass on the relevent side of the runway.
To summerise. Best avoided but if you have to transit nearby please keep a Very good lookout. Glider pilots are used to flying in close proximity to each other (I have been in a thermal with 20+ other gliders) and spend most of the time with their eyes outside the cockpit so will probly see you first

[thing]

I fly from Darlton; Gamston general aviation is on our doorstep virtually, we're almost in Doncaster's airspace and we have Scampton and Waddington in our back yard. What amazes me is that hole borers will still fly over the site at the minimum alt (2000 in our case) when we have flailing cables and all the other good stuff to bring down an aircraft lurking in the air. Of course it could be due to the fact that the A1 is on our doorstep as well. Please, please give glider sites a wide berth if possible, we are all on radio at our site but it's not much use when you hit that 'after take off thermal', pole into a steep turn and come face to face with Joe Cessna who is flying to the regs but not with any common. OK the onus is see and be seen but in my experience it seems to be me that does all the seeing and getting out of the way, there must be some kind of anti glider coating on light aircraft windscreens.

On a more general note, if the weather is anywhere near reasonable, expect gliders floating around up to 20 miles from the site depending on cloudbase not counting the ones that have decided to do a cross country which could be anywhere frankly. If you look at the proximity of gliding sites on a half mil you can see that on a reasonable day gliders could be all over the shop. Also if we have wave conditions we could be lurking around at FL200, we're not always between the clouds and the hard stuff.

[mary meagher]

Although some of the bigger gliding clubs may be listening out on the radio if they are expecting a visitor, (prior permission absolutely essential) flying overhead is dangerous, a radio call will not keep you legal or safe. The people listening to the radio are not running an ATC service, and can give no instructions or clearances. An encounter over a gliding site with the braided steel cable used to launch gliders up to 3,000' agl is not desirable.

A collision between a glider and a power plane is more likely to be grief for those trusting in engines. Most recently,an RAF Tutor doing aeros in a crowded corridor on a good soaring day flew into a glider from below. The two on the RAF Tutor died. The glider pilot parachuted to safety.

A while ago, a K13 glider not far from Aylesbury/Thame was struck from behind, about two feet of the wing was sliced off. The power plane crashed and the occupants did not survive. The K13 glider was able to land safely in a field.

Gliding sites are well marked on your charts and should be avoided. The advice to plan your flight well above cloudbase should give a safer and smoother ride

[ShyTorque]

pole into a steep turn and come face to face with Joe Cessna who is flying to the regs but not with any common.

I think that comment must be answered!

It could easily be argued that you should look out for Joe Cessna before poling into a steep turn then blaming the other pilot for not avoiding you.

See and avoid has to be a two way thing and we must all realise the limitations of the human eye and take care to "fly with common".

Two things to remember about Joe Cessna:

1) He might have seen you late and been already trying to avoid you, which would have been effective had you not blindly "poled into a steep turn" towards him.

2) He might have been unable to see you until you turned.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

It could easily be argued that you should look out for Joe Cessna before poling into a steep turn then blaming the other pilot for not avoiding you.
I gather that gliders aren't actually very good at straight-and-level. So it's not that reasonable to expect them to fly straight-and-level and make sure the next bit of sky they want to aim at is clear, as you might expect a power pilot to do.

Spotted a couple of gliders once somewhere in the distance, made a mental note to check them again in a couple of seconds' time. When I looked back at where I thought they'd be a couple of seconds later they weren't there. Next thing I knew one of them was going over the top of me, the other underneath, and the were going ****** fast, much faster than I was.

I did rather assume that (a) they'd seen me and were taking the piss and (b) at least as I was going straight-and-level they felt they could avoid me easily enough.

[thing]

I think that comment must be answered!

'It could easily be argued that you should look out for Joe Cessna before poling into a steep turn then blaming the other pilot for not avoiding you.

See and avoid has to be a two way thing and we must all realise the limitations of the human eye and take care to "fly with common".

Two things to remember about Joe Cessna:

1) He might have seen you late and been already trying to avoid you, which would have been effective had you not blindly "poled into a steep turn" towards him.

2) He might have been unable to see you until you turned.'


I haven't got eyes in the back of my head, I can see maybe 120 degrees either side from straight and level. Gliders don't do straight and level, I think most GA pilots know that so why come close enough to make a potential conflict? I've actually had a light aircraft up my rear end when I've steep turned and found him lurking in my 6. Bear in mind after 60 degrees or so of turn I've already clocked him and am taking avoiding action. Also the 'after take off thermal' is literally that, often the winch will kick off a bump because it's engine has been running at power at the launch, so a turn on dropping the cable is not unusual. I have had to take avoiding action just coming off the wire, one of those times was extremely close (a pair of RAF Tucanos who really should have known better)

I did make the point that it is see and be seen, I also made the point as well that it is the glider pilot who more often than not makes the avoidance turn. I've done enough light aircraft flying to know that not all GA pilots have a great look out, they spend a lot longer heads in than a glider pilot does. It's even mandatory to fly with an electric audio vario in a glider so that you don't have to look in, so please don't accuse me or any other glider pilot of not keeping a good look out, I think you'll find that we're better than most........

[ShyTorque]

Thing, I also have a gliding qualification. It's how I got into aviation.

Gliders are often terribly difficult to see, especially from behind, so that is why some light aircraft may appear to deliberately come up close behind you.

Blame my RAF flying training but I maintain that lookout should be done as far as possible before turning, irrespective of the type of aircraft being flown.

[thing]

I always do, were it in my power I would ground anyone that didn't, but often a power aircraft will be in a blind spot, you make the turn and almost as soon as you've put in a welly full of rudder and stick you're reversing it because someone has appeared. You know yourself as a glider jock that having up to 12 meters or so of wing poking out of each ear can hide objects behind you.

I'm not having a gripe at our fan assisted friends, by the nature of the beast you have to look in to change frequency, fiddle with the bits that you have to fiddle with etc, I just sometimes think that a little more awareness of what a glider does, like turning on a sixpence at any time in front of you wouldn't go amiss. Let's put it this way, if I were flying powered regularly I wouldn't go within a country mile of a gliding site or glider.

[ShyTorque]

Let's put it this way, if I were flying powered regularly I wouldn't go within a country mile of a gliding site or glider.

Same here. Read my earlier post on this thread (#3)?

I no longer fly "light aircraft", these days it's a medium helicopter. I constantly find I suffer the same issue, with some (many) light aircraft pilots apparently not looking out properly, or if they do, not abiding by the rules of the air with regard to rights of way.

But I do understand the difficulty of spotting other aircraft, as I said, we all suffer from limitations of our human eyes.

[thing]

Perhaps all powered pilots should start off on gliders then.....

It's just struck me actually that I started of on motorcycles before I started driving cars, I had some quite powerful ones. We always used to moan about car drivers not looking where they were going, and as a car driver I'm certainly more aware of road conditions and keeping a look out for other motorcyclists than I think I would have been if I had driven cars from the start.

Maybe it's not a bad idea to give powered pilots a couple of hours in a glider.

[ShyTorque]

Maybe it's not a bad idea to give powered pilots a couple of hours in a glider.

As a motorcyclist (since the age of 11 and now having a yellow "Think Bike" sticker in my car's rear window), and having soloed a glider at the age of 15 (now almost 40 years ago, how worrying :eek:), I agree entirely with both sentiments.

[soay]

So, to summarise:

- Keep clear of gliding sites.
- Gliders can be below cloud, in cloud, and sometimes above it.
- In a straight line, gliders can fly faster than some SEPs.
- Gliders go up and down and round and round unpredictably, chasing invisible thermals.
- Gliders are very hard to see.
- Gliders don't carry transponders.

Conclusions:

- Don't fly your light aircraft on thermally active days;
- Or, take your chances and hope the big sky theory holds, because see and avoid is iffy;
- Or, get an instrument rating and fly in the airways.

Did I miss anything? :confused:

[BackPacker]

To add:

- If you see a glider circling, there's usually more of them about, circling in the same thermal, above or below, but always in the same direction.

[Opsbeatch]

but always in the same direction.

That should read USUALY THE SAME DIRECTION...

I have been in a stack of gliders (Luckily at the top) looking down on 10 others...9 of which were going the same way. Cost that guy a lot in the bar that night!

A good lookout and if possible avoid going near a gliding site. If you have to go near, get as high as possible and have as many eyes as possible looking out of the cockpit!!!

OB

[BackPacker]

Okay, let me rephrase that.

- If you see a glider circling, there's usually more of them about, circling in the same thermal, above, same level or below, usually in the same direction.
- If gliders are circling in the same thermal but in opposite direction, expect gliders to break away from the thermal in all directions at once, and a lot of swearing on the radio.

As an aside, has anyone ever thermaled successfully in a SEP (DA-40 for instance)? If best glide is at 70 knots (36 m/s) and you have a glide ratio of 1:8, you should be able to stay level with a 4.5 m/s thermal. In good conditions, it should be possible - although you'll never outclimb a half-decent glider of course.

[thing]

No reason why not. At one of my old gliding clubs there was a Cub pilot who regularly soared it.

[thing]

So, to summarise:

- Keep clear of gliding sites. //Yes.
- Gliders can be below cloud, in cloud, and sometimes above it. //Yes.
- In a straight line, gliders can fly faster than some SEPs.// 154 kts Vne on most 15 metre gliders which they will achieve extremely quickly without a great deal of pointing down of the nose.
- Gliders go up and down and round and round unpredictably, chasing invisible thermals.// Oh yes.
- Gliders are very hard to see.// Apparently.
- Gliders don't carry transponders. //Nope.

Conclusions:

- Don't fly your light aircraft on thermally active days;//isn't it bumpy anyway for you guys?
- Or, take your chances and hope the big sky theory holds, because see and avoid is iffy; //good conclusion.
- Or, get an instrument rating and fly in the airways.// Not exciting.

Did I miss anything? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, don't think so, see you up there. I hope.... ;)

[ShyTorque]

Conclusions:

- Don't fly your light aircraft on thermally active days;//isn't it bumpy anyway for you guys?
- Or, take your chances and hope the big sky theory holds, because see and avoid is iffy; //good conclusion.
- Or, get an instrument rating and fly in the airways.// Not exciting.

Did I miss anything?

Unfortunately, we're back to the old stock answers again. Little chance of paragraphs 1 and 3 happening (the airways part at least).

Some of us have to fly for a living, not for leisure and we're not quite all weather, but as near as. There's a considerable amount of Class G IFR flights in UK, some of it rotary wing pilots using an IR but not in the airways because it's totally impractical for some facets of the aviation business (not everyone begins or ends their flight at an airfield).

[thing]

'Unfortunately, we're back to the old stock answers again.'

I don't know what the world's coming to when grown men can't talk rubbish on a internet forum, it's the only entertainment some of us get you know.

[ShyTorque]

True, true! ;)

[mary meagher]

Actually, chaps, you don't talk complete rubbish most of the time. I find PPRuNers make a lot of sense quite often, though some descend to ad hominem, which is actually against the rules. For a forum that spends most of its time spiraling down its own fundament, the BA cabin staff kerfluffle takes the biscuit.

To tell the truth, our own discipline's yakkety yak is rather childish - referring to glider pilot net.

Anyhow, tomorrow looks like a ridge day, 10 mph NW, and though the grass runways have the consistency of soggy blanc mange, we do have a couple of paved runways left over from the Wellingtons c. 1944, still usable. Email is a wonderful thing for organising weekday gliding during the winter.

[thing]

0800 here, heavy frost but clear as a bell. Might actually get airborne today instead of painting the clubhouse, whoopee.

[cumulusrider]

Back to the original topic.
The chap on the ground with a radio at a gliding site is typically standing in the middle of a freezing cold/boiling hot airfield with a hand held radio. The wind is blowing across his mic causing distotion. He/she is within a few yards of an aerotow launch point with a tug ticking over. They are probably not power pilots so not in regular practice with RT procedure.

If he is in charge of the launchpoint and launching he will be concentrating on the safety aspects of that rather than chatting on the radio.

By all means call a gliding site, just dont be suprised if you dont hear an answer. A visiting aircraft was calling us from 10 miles away and we could hear him OK. Unfortunately our handheld was not powerful enough for him to hear us until he was in the circuit.

Gliding sites during the summer get most busy when the thermals start popping 11-12am and later in the day when the cross country pilots returm say 4-5pm. Yes a typical flight lasts 4-5hrs- more than the endurance of most light aircraft.

Roll on the decent flying weather and longer days, im bored

[thing]

Well I managed a 4 minute circuit yesterday taking off from mudsville. Went up for half an hour in the motor glider to feel justified in turning out..........passed a TB20 at about 1700 ft over Newark going the otherway at a rate of knots and thought about IO520.

[cats_five]

Back to the original topic.
The chap on the ground with a radio at a gliding site is typically standing in the middle of a freezing cold/boiling hot airfield with a hand held radio. The wind is blowing across his mic causing distotion. He/she is within a few yards of an aerotow launch point with a tug ticking over. They are probably not power pilots so not in regular practice with RT procedure.

If he is in charge of the launchpoint and launching he will be concentrating on the safety aspects of that rather than chatting on the radio.


And gliding sites (or those I know of) don't have any form of ATC. The best you might get is 'yes we are flying'. They can give information and that's it.

[thing]

Nobody ever talks to us anyway................We always inform Waddington who provide the local LARS that we are flying.

[chevvron]

"chap on the ground with the radio" " not in regular practice with RT procedure"
cumulusrider be careful what you're saying, the CAA might read this and assume your man at the launch point is providing A/G communication service without a certificate of competence to operate a GROUND radio station. I know years ago, pilots in a glider could operate the radio on an allocated gliding frequency without an FRTOL, but as far as I'm aware that exemption does not cover transmissions from the ground. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, the BGA Radio man needs to look at this situation carefully.

[tinpilot]

Yes, the exemption does exist for glider ground stations provided that an A/G service, or other service, is not being provided. Which is why there's very little point in calling glider sites - they're not supposed to provide a service.

Can only offer a BGA reference I'm afraid, although I'd be very surprised if the BGA were bullsh*tting in their official publications.

[MIKECR]

Glider pilots are still exempt from holding a FRTOL as long as they are using specifically allocated gliding frequencies. Its still in Lasors as well as the ANO. Likewise, I know of nothing(I stand to be corrected!) that prevents the typical duty pilot operating a radio either as long as its on gliding frequency.

[Il Duce]

thing says above that his site is always notified to Waddington when it's active. Apologies, thing, but it's often the case that the LARS controllers at Waddington will inform GA pilots of active gliding sites and are promptly ignored. Indeed, some of these pilots seem to use the gliding sites as nav waypoints. For example, just this week an exchange like this took place:
LARS - "GNUMPTY Darlton gliding site is notified as being active."
GNUMPTY - "Which site is that active?"
LARS - "Darlton. Gliding, notified active up to 2000'."
GNUMPTY - "Roger, maintaining 2000'."
LARS - "GNUMPTY, Darlton, 12o'clock, 3 miles. Two contacts in the Darlton area, no height information, probably gliders."
GNUMPTY - "Roger."
...and flies right through.

[bad bear]

I see the old favourite of " gliders are hard to see" has raised its ugly head on the thread.

Here is bad bear's challenge.... mount your mobile phone or video in the cockpit facing your head and look at the footage after landing to see how often and how effective your look out is

I would say that if you keep your head in the cockpit long enough there is a chance you will see a glider ,or other flying machine, in there eventually. Few pilots of any discipline look out enough, it is my most common comment to pilots I check fly.

Back to thread, I like hearing the occasional courtesy call from pilots transiting but realise that the time spend heads down tuning a radio is time that could be spent looking out. As a glider pilot I try to call most airfields I pass near, especially if they have an IAP symbol, but the work load and distraction is large.
The best thing us aviators could do is use PPRUNE to have an activity info exchange. e.g. someone from Benson posts about the activity at their station giving busy times and expected types of aircraft and general activity.It would have to be realistic info and qualified and not just we are the busiest airfield on the planet do not come within 15nm ever ever ever.

At Lasham, for example, there are jets arriving for maintenance about 3-5 times per week. Occasional light aircraft flying from what was the BDFA. Regularly 200 movements per day from gliders launching by winch and aerotow, but can be up to 200 movements per hour on a good day. Generally 9am till sunset. There are large concentrations of gliders in the 3-5nm upwind there after the gliders disperse but have a main transit route past Didcot power station to avoid controlled airspace. October to March can be quiet. (Only a rough draft, would need more detail)

This is not something that is not easy to relay on an icom on a busy day and the info would most likely be too late to be of use....

Would anyone like to start an "activity thread" to help us all be more aware and safe?
bb

[thing]

'thing says above that his site is always notified to Waddington when it's active. Apologies, thing, but it's often the case that the LARS controllers at Waddington will inform GA pilots of active gliding sites and are promptly ignored. Indeed, some of these pilots seem to use the gliding sites as nav waypoints. For example, just this week an exchange like this took place:
LARS - "GNUMPTY Darlton gliding site is notified as being active."
GNUMPTY - "Which site is that active?"
LARS - "Darlton. Gliding, notified active up to 2000'."
GNUMPTY - "Roger, maintaining 2000'."
LARS - "GNUMPTY, Darlton, 12o'clock, 3 miles. Two contacts in the Darlton area, no height information, probably gliders."
GNUMPTY - "Roger."
...and flies right through.'

We had a microlight bumbling around the site on Wednesday, I think you're right, they do use them as waypoints.

OK, for what it's worth, Darlton operates Wed, Sat, Sun from @9.30 to dusk, cables to 2,000. Waddo are always informed when we are about to start and when we stop flying. We don't have planning permission for tug aircraft so all of our launches are winch although we do have a motor glider, no transponder that get's well used so watch out for that scooting around. We also have a 'Darlton Box' that we can open when Doncaster isn't busy which allows us into part of Donny's airspace. Doncaster will inform you of this and in the box we listen out on Donny's frequency so will hear you talking to them anyway.

[ShyTorque]

Went eastbound past Darlton today in the little open cockpit flier, just to the north side. One glider was overhead; it did look quite busy on the field.

Perhaps I'll drop in one day and renew my aquaintances with engine-less flight.

[thing]

Be more than happy to see you.