View Full Version : Airasia incident in Malaysia
Bolli
11th Jan 2011, 13:05
Airline Industry and Aviation Safety News from Flightglobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/01/11/351703/airasia-a320-skids-off-runway-at-kuching-closes-airport.html)
An AirAsia A320 skidded off the runway while landing at Malaysia's Kuching International Airport last night, resulting in the closure of the airport as workers try to remove the aircraft.
Anybody anything more about this?
Bolli
11th Jan 2011, 14:30
Pictures
Kuching Catscity - Airasia crash landing at kuching airport [Forum - News Today] (http://forum.catscity.com.my/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=82957#forumpost82957)
Nose and wing damage...
GlueBall
11th Jan 2011, 14:34
JACDEC - Current News (http://www.jacdec.de/news/news.htm)
. . .a little more than just a "skid off the pavement" looks like substantial damage with the engines trashed.
Mike-Bracknell
11th Jan 2011, 15:31
Obviously a warning to airlines to choose their marketing tag-lines carefully. :rolleyes:
lomapaseo
11th Jan 2011, 19:57
. . .a little more than just a "skid off the pavement" looks like substantial damage with the engines trashed.
I doubt that there is much damage. The covers over the engines suggest that they are trying to protect them during the recovery.
wingview
11th Jan 2011, 21:09
There could be a lot more damage then you can see from these pictures (or even from the outside) to make it a w/o. Even for a pretty young plane.
Bolli
11th Jan 2011, 22:25
in this picture: http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs036.snc6/166655_137088603017873_100001502034421_225535_2757201_n.jpg
you can see the engine is touching the ground, and it almost looks like its full of mud...
IMHO its either a costly repair job or a w/o...
Airport is now reopen..
Capn Bloggs
12th Jan 2011, 00:44
The Borneo Post received a call from Balai Ringin assemblyman Snowdan Lawan, who was on the plane with his wife Melinda Claudia, regarding the incident around 10.30pm.
He said the first thing he grabbed was his iPad as it contained important documents.
SHAKEN BUT WELL: Snowdan speaks to reporters.
“As we were seated in front, my wife and I were among the first to get off the plane. In fact my wife went out after me. I had to save the iPad,” he said.
Snowdan, who is Parti Rakyat Sarawak (PRS) deputy secretary, said he travels regularly and had never had such a bad experience before.
Got his priorities right! :ok:
VH-Cheer Up
12th Jan 2011, 02:15
Snowdan, who is Parti Rakyat Sarawak (PRS) deputy secretary, said he travels regularly and had never had such a bad experience before.
Isn't that always the way? One crash can ruin your whole day and create quite negative perceptions about the airline.
paulftw
12th Jan 2011, 02:40
More rubber on the runway their than a condom manufacturing plant, it was just waiting to happen, maybe now budgets and short cuts will be looked into, but somehow I doubt it! Luck was on their side this time around, next time, maybe not! :=
ecureilx
12th Jan 2011, 06:52
Capn Bloggs: atleast he didn't run to grab his Golf Bag :) I know somebody when the plane encountered turbulance, had tried to remove his Golf Bag and keep it with him so he can get out with his Golf Bag :)
Sunstar320
12th Jan 2011, 06:56
They could have performed a missed approach, it wouldn't have taken einstein to work out that they were in for an interesting landing. The pilots are so inexperienced in this airline they probably wouldn't even know the procedures of a go around. How many hours did this captain have I wonder? Most have less than 1000.
Still awaiting the final report from the two low level approaches on the Gold Coast. Have a chat to the ATC in Melbourne, been too many close calls with this mob.
When you pay your flight attendants more than pilots you should know something is going to happen, eventually.
TIMA9X
12th Jan 2011, 11:58
They could have performed a missed approach, it wouldn't have taken einstein to work out that they were in for an interesting landing. The pilots are so inexperienced in this airline they probably wouldn't even know the procedures of a go around. How many hours did this captain have I wonder? Most have less than 1000.
With respect 320, A bit unfair on the Captain with the little infomation we have so far on this incident.:rolleyes:
Still awaiting the final report from the two low level approaches on the Gold Coast.
Possibly the same should apply for this incident as well...... wait for a report with a bit more credible information.:ok:
MucMuc
12th Jan 2011, 14:01
I agree with Sunstar320 on this one...
Look at It this way - Air Asia expanded with lightning speed, needing lots of pilots, and quickly. Pilot training in Malaysia (even more so abroad) is too expensive for most of the population, and there are no real flying schools around (Lived there for few years, believe me, I was trying to find them!!) that could train the number of pilots they needed.
So, where did the pilots come from? Some from their own training program (sped up for max output, from scratch), and some were brought from Thailand, Indonesia, India and Philippines. The thread about their licenses is on this forum.
On the other hand, I have had horrendous experiences with their ground staff in KL on few occasions, one where they were letting passengers flog off their extra luggage to other passengers on the flight to carry it from them - and police didn't bat an eyelid. And that's just one of few dodgy incidents with AirA that happened to me personally!!! So if that's their attitude on the ground, attitude in the air can't be much better either....
PS. Never flew them again after that, and never will again.
kotakota
12th Jan 2011, 20:34
Kuching ........learnt to treat it with a great deal of respect , either hot , humid and turbulent , or pouring with rain onto a bumpy disintegrating runway covered in rubber . Where the weather changed from one to the other very fast , magenta always on the radar ...........
Low cost airline , crew always under pressure to maintain schedule , almost always impossible with 20 minute turnrounds ( I kid you not ) so the slightest hold-off causes 'lates' all day , no way to catch up, lots of stupid questions , form filling ad nauseam ,all the ingredients for press-on-itis , very common in SE Asia .
Kuching 2011 , Kinabalu 2004/5 ( 737 )
At least noone hurt , even the iPad .
Slasher
13th Jan 2011, 03:18
On the SEA&FE forum - http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/439137-air-asia-off-runway-kuching.html
Air Asia seems to have a fairly standard procedure of not using reverse on landing. I have never even witnessed them using idle reverse.
Looks like it finally bit them on the arse.
Use full reverse on a slippery runway with a crosswind and
you're begging for trouble. I see no evidence of reversers
causing the problem unless he actually did "gun the buckets"
and No 1 hung up.
As mentioned earlier could the armchair experts wait until the
evidence is in before exercising your impulsive predilections for
rabidly assigning blame? Speculation is one thing, pointing the
uninformed finger is another.
AirbusPhp
14th Jan 2011, 08:13
At least noone hurt , even the iPad .
Could we probably press the iPad for some iWitness report then. It seems to be the crucial figure in this story :E
ReverseFlight
14th Jan 2011, 13:11
Use full reverse on a slippery runway with a crosswind and
you're begging for trouble.
Of course, as that would put you into Reverse Flight !!! :E
The point is it doesn't have to be full reverse thrust and that could work quite well.
electricdeathjet
14th Jan 2011, 16:52
ummmm, there was only 4 kts of wind. Lets not get too dramatic here!
My wife and I flew from SIN to Penang and back recently. I thought the operation was very professional. New aircraft, good briefings and alert cabin crew. (pretty too). On time both ways. Compared to some operators in that part of the world, Air Asia are an airline of choice.
Mr.Bloggs
15th Jan 2011, 23:08
Very funny Tyke.
FBW390
16th Jan 2011, 20:50
SOP = not to use reverse? crosswind was 4 Kts only!:ugh:
Captains with only 1000hrs total? How is it possible?:ugh:
Anybody could confirm?
Tee Emm
17th Jan 2011, 11:31
AA do have a lot of very junior pilots, that's not to say that's a bad thing,
Is it a good thing, then?
"I just want to thank everyone who made this day necessary".
Peter "Yogi" Berra
seem to recall there was an incident in MEL with a certain A320 operator trying to drive a serviceable aircraft into the ground, twice. Would have thought that it is impolite to be disparaging about standards given the performance in our own back yards... but hardly entertaining scripture. (There is no part of the world, nor area of human endeavours that I can recall, where human factors and close coupled systems have not had bad days).
"the smaller the mind, the greater the conceit..."
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)
"I wish I had an answer to that because I'm tired of answering that question".
Yogi (again)
Morrisman1
18th Jan 2011, 05:07
slogan: "Now everyone can fly"
Maybe they mean it literally?
a345xxx
18th Jan 2011, 05:10
But obviously not everyone can land! :)
babotika
18th Jan 2011, 08:46
1000h Captains: load of :mad:. Most of the Skippers are very experienced having joined as commanders already. Internal upgrades aren't easy.
Reverse: Idle reverse preferred setting - using some form of reverse is mandatory, tea and no biscuits if it doesn't happen. Full reverse can do more harm than good at times but if you haven't had it happen you wouldn't know that.
Kuching's runway when wet has as much friction as a skating rink, if they landed in heavy rain and something started a yawing moment (asymmetric reverse spoolup?) it could be very hard to recover.
The weather changes so fast it can go from CAVOK with a CB nearby at 3 miles final to 800m in heavy rain as you're flaring, as if someone turned on a hose. Hard to see it coming, harder still to react.
Waiting for the final report to know more, however saying this wouldn't have happened to another airline is complete :mad:
James' Bro
18th Jan 2011, 08:50
But obviously not everyone can land! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif
ooooohh.. cocky := .. hope you do not encounter such situation in your flying career !
AnQrKa
2nd Feb 2011, 20:39
"Full reverse can do more harm than good at times but if you haven't had it happen you wouldn't know that."
Such as?
Centaurus
4th Feb 2011, 13:24
No SOP indicating no reverse. With 3500m++ runway, of course we never use
Fuel saving measure of course. Bugger the hot brakes.
Mat Sabo
5th Feb 2011, 00:21
"Full reverse can do more harm than good at times but if you haven't had it happen you wouldn't know that."
Such as?
:ugh:sigh:ugh:such as substantial crosswinds acrosss a slick runway....CPL 101!
Air Asia A320....took a flight from KUL to JHB. On climb through about 20000ft right up to cruise and decent below 10000, there was a horrible groaning grating noise as if the pressurisation system is toast. The cabin crew had no idea why, pilot did not answer query put through via the cabin crew. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
Capn Bloggs
5th Feb 2011, 02:18
Centaurus,
No SOP indicating no reverse. With 3500m++ runway, of course we never use
Fuel saving measure of course. Bugger the hot brakes.
An interesting point. What is the relative cost of brake wear verses fuel saved (assuming one would not deliberately cause hot brakes if the aircraft is on a quick turn)?
Tmbstory
5th Feb 2011, 03:03
Do AirAsia use alternative means of brake cooling on these 20 minute turn rounds, to ensure that certification requirements are met for the next take-off.
Tmb
Metro man
5th Feb 2011, 07:29
Temp limit for take off of 300C without the fans running and 150C if you have used them on the way out. After landing a five minute time period is needed before the fans go on, so even with a twenty minute turn around there shouldn't be any problem getting the temps within limits.
My large UK airline prefers warmer brakes and maybe the use of brake fans over a full flap landing with full reverse. Brake extra brake wear is negligeable apparently. Of course all within reason (long non-limiting runway etc.)
Even then brake fans are used only 10% of the time on a normal runway during a 25 minute turn. Once the fans are on, the temp reduces below limits within 5 minutes. So no problem there.
Smudger
5th Feb 2011, 10:19
Penko ; so the brake temps are above limits for 5 minutes?
Phoenix_X
5th Feb 2011, 10:37
Penko ; so the brake temps are above limits for 5 minutes?
Yes, they are above TAKEOFF limits for 5 minutes. But you're not taking off right then.
The temperatures are not above absolute limits (you'd know if the fuse plugs blow ;) )
Apologies for the slight confusion, I was indeed referring to the 300 degree takeoff limit. On parking, the next limiting temp would be 500 degrees after which you should not use the parking brake. I have never seen a temperature even near that on a normal turnaround.
Smudger
5th Feb 2011, 11:48
Penko; now I understand, thank you
Config3Landing
20th Feb 2011, 16:33
Pilot training in Malaysia (even more so abroad) is too expensive for most of the population, and there are no real flying schools around (Lived there for few years, believe me, I was trying to find them!!)
With all due respect...are you sure with you're facts?..:=...May I suggest that you get it right........
regards.