DJ Turboprops announced in Skywest tie up

[Mr. Hat]

Have no idea myself what their process is but if you look up the Skywest threads you can work out which ppruners work there and they may be able to help.

The obvious ones would be:

XRlent100
XRlent320

Other than these two I"m not sure. But they might be able to point you in the right direction.

[wtfia]

From a pilots perspective I know which I would rather fly. The ATR will have available power of 5,500 SHP compared to 10,000 SHP on the Q400.

From a numbers perspective, the Q has a greater payload and with the flexibility to fly slower and burn less fuel or push out to a fairly useful TAS, I am scratching my head over this decision.

[Roger Sir]

Will be interesting too watch how the ATR transitions into the current E-170 flying. I wonder if it will mean a strait transition from E-170 to ATR or if some difficult decisions / announcments will be made along the way.

Time will tell and with the DJ Half Yearly materials saying that 3 x 170 will be exited before the end of this FY, we don't have long to wait.

With 4 ATR`s by July i`d hazard a guess they`ll be replacing some of the E170 shorter hops on a one-for-one basis. Syd-Cbr, Syd-Ay, Syd-Pmq etc. Once the E170`s are all gone then the longer, thinner routes eg. Syd-Rk, Syd-Mk etc will go to the E190`s and most regional routes ex. Syd, Mel and Bne will be the realm of the ATR. Looks like Qlink and Rex may have a little more competition to their better regional ports.

Did somebody mention gate issues at Sydney? It`s not going to get any better is it? :=

[43Inches]

Did somebody mention gate issues at Sydney? It`s not going to get any better is it? :=
The issue into Sydney is more about slots than gates. Aeropelican was claiming last year that there was no regional slots available into Sydney except for between 11am and 3pm. QLink and Rex will not be challenged in NSW unless you can get the commuter slots.

[HappyBandit]

Word is starting 10 march new routes including syd-rok then rok-tsv and
Tsv-cns....i sense competition with qlink here too

[GAFA]

HappyBandit,

Virgin have been operating those routes in E170 for the last 2+ years.

[HappyBandit]

Ah there you go!!! Refueller was telling me this and seemed excited about this news....wonder why he mentioned the date???

[Spinnerhead]

Qlink must be smiling from ear to ear.

The ATR has 1 tonne less payload than a Q400.
Carries 1 tonne less fuel at max payload.
And does all this at a conservative 60 knots slower.

I can see some fun times ahead in the pilot briefing room if they are supposed to take over from the E170.

Edited to replace "usefull load" with "payload"

[kiwilad]

Qlink must be smiling from ear to ear.

ATR much better dispatch reliability.
Fuel burn unmatched per seat/km.
Less than 270nm, will not be much different time wise.
Qlink don't operate flatout as trying to extend engine life, and with the gear issues, groundings, the choice for the short routes is simple.

CBR-SYD is perfect.

Have heard the jet vs props argument for passengers and have never found a booking website that gives you that choice. No 1 is price No2 is timing and that is it.

[RENURPP]

#3 is on carriage
#4 is frequent flyer membership and loyalty points.

Passengers don't normally check aircraft type. The average punter would not have a clue about the difference between an ATR / Dash 8 or an E170 for that matter.

[Chadzat]

The ATR has 1 tonne less usefull load than a Q400.
Doesn't really matter as it doesn't burn as much as a Capesize freighter!

Carries 1 tonne less fuel at max load.
Once again, a difference in fuel burn of 400kg/hr will see this neutralised.

And does all this at a conservative 60 knots slower.
See above.

[winglets747]

With 4 ATR`s by July i`d hazard a guess they`ll be replacing some of the E170 shorter hops on a one-for-one basis.

From Flightglobal:
"The ATR will form the foundation of our regional network plans, with the first six ATRs replacing our current Embraer E170 fleet and the additional aircraft flying to new regional destinations," Borghetti says.

Virgin Blue's new ATR72s to arrive from May (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/02/23/353533/virgin-blues-new-atr72s-to-arrive-from-may.html)

[training wheels]

The airline will wet-lease the aircraft from West Australia operator SkyWest under an agreement announced last month.

Skywest in turn will lease the aircraft from leasing company Avation with an initial term of ten years.

I don't quite understand this? Why not lease direct from the leasing company Avation? Wouldn't it be cheaper to do so, than go through a third party?

[ozaggie]

Why not lease direct?

Guess this way they can tap into the Skywest training org; plus the exposure to secure routes in WA, plus FIFO. Aint got nothing to do with big airplanes, but it seems logical to me.

OA

[neville_nobody]

I don't quite understand this? Why not lease direct from the leasing company Avation? Wouldn't it be cheaper to do so, than go through a third party?

Because that is how Skywest's owners makes money. They have a company that owns all the aircraft and leases them out at a higher than market rate. That way they make all their profits out of leasing aircraft and as a result Skywest don't make alot of money. So come EBA time the company cries poor claiming that 'times are tough' for Skywest. Meanwhile the owners are cleaning up on the lease of the aircraft.

Smart way of operating really.

[KRUSTY 34]

i dunno'. Seems like robbing from Peter to pay Paul to me!

But what would I know? :suspect:

[Compylot]

OK I have from very good authority;

-Small number of initial check and training Captains on secondment from Skywest

-10 to 20 initial direct entry crews, 28K up front for ATR endorsement to be done in Thailand (with subsidised accomodation and airfares)

-Announcement very soon regarding Skywest/Virgin Cadetship to supply 3/4 of the FOs by the middle of next year. NO progression into Skywest but more than likely FOs (cadets) able to move onto the virgin fleet after 3 years.

-Cadetship to cost 130k, half up front with 7 year return of service. Deal just about done with a well known Western Australian flying training operator...:eek:

-FOs 45-60k

-Captains 90-110k

watch this space... :ooh:

[DeafStar]

good luck getting pilots with that deal. Its disgusting.

[The Baron]

Interesting rumour today about a Qantas liveried company operating F100s on the East Coast replacing some of the Q400s. Not a current Qantaslink operator. Could be trouble brewing perhaps?:}

[sled_driver71]

$110K to fly a turboprop. Surely thats the best turboprop wage in Australia? Or am I mistaken?

[KRUSTY 34]

Not if you're already a Captain on a Skywest F50! :rolleyes:

[Green gorilla]

How about 120+ to fly a 328.:}

[sled_driver71]

Clearly I was mistaken :O

[AussieAviator]

Interesting rumour today about a Qantas liveried company operating F100s on the East Coast replacing some of the Q400s. Not a current Qantaslink operator. Could be trouble brewing perhaps?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

Now that may refer to the negotiations going on with Alliance becoming a wholy owned division of Qantas. Expect an announcement very soon. Their aircraft are not in Qantas colours, but many flights are operated as Qantaslink.

[KRUSTY 34]

Needless to say the figures quoted by Compypilot are yet to be confirmed, but I must say I'm not surprised. The employment of cadets, frankly is something I didn't see coming, but on reflection it does fit the modern airline management's M.O.

Captains will be interesting, obviously the quoted pay falls short of what current Skywest drivers are getting, or will the "Chosen few" come over on bigger bucks to train whoever is gullible enough to go for a DEC! Please guys show some integrity.

But $130K! for a turbo-prop Cadetship, Holy Snap'n Ducksh!t Batman! :eek:

[GAFA]

Or it could mean some or all of the 10 F100's Network are getting are for the East Coast.

Green gorilla that's good dollars, where do I sign up?

[penetrator]

cadets, brave move considering senate inq going on & 1500hr rule may not be to far around the corner.

[Capt Basil Brush]

-Small number of initial check and training Captains on secondment from Skywest

What do you mean on secondment from Skywest? I thought Skywest were operating all of them?

Sounds like a "low pay wind-up" type of reply to me, and the whole bit about cadets/progression into the different companies sounds like crap!

[coaldemon]

Complete windup. Move on nothing factual to be seen here.

[tourismman]

Aussie Aviator i dont doubt that talks between Alliance and Qantas are occurring but these F100 flights to both ROK and sometimes MKY are because the Q400'S have fallen over.

Gafa you are spot on i reckon only 4 F100's of Network will be WA based the rest will find homes in BNE,TSVor CNS and ADL.

With the opening up of 3 massive mines in the Galilee basin near Alpha next year will require between 5,000 and 7,000 fly in fly out jobs.A new jet airport at Alpha is planned.Also the massive LNG projects at GLT and RMA will involve more FIFO flights.

[newsensation]

In qantaslink it matters little as to whose AOC an aircraft is on, the Q400's are all on the Sunstate AOC but both Sunstate and Eastern pilots fly them, it depends where they are needed... so if Qantaslink need jets on the east coast it would matter little that they were on Networks AOC, if they are required in QLD then Sunstate pilots would operate them if south of QLd then Eastern pilots would operate them.
and that's straight from the Townsville refueler.....

[grrowler]

Rumours of jets for SSA/ EAA... is it EBA time?:suspect:

[HomeJames]

Hullo Chaps,

I get a strong sense young Compylot lives under a bridge and would turn to stone in direct sunlight...

Straight home and don't spare the horses.

[gnomie]

Its the ATR72 !!

[The Baron]

The jets aren't ever going to Sunstate or Eastern but to the new budget carrier. The people with a jet AOC and F100 check and training already in place. When are you guys going to wake up to the standard Qantas ploy?
It's only been going on since 1991!

[Soar2384]

So any updates on bases for the ATR's? Sounds like BN is a definite, any others?

[kiwilad]

I hear the capital was rumoured.
Is anyone any clearer on the contract conditions? SkyWest EBA or not?

[bubble.head]

So it is less than a month till the announced June arrival of ATRs in Virgin colours. Is there any more news on the matter? You would think one or two would have arrived by now if they were to start operating in June.

[KRUSTY 34]

I've been told Brisbane first. So I guess that's the place to look for them? :confused:

[GAFA]

The first aircraft arrives in June with start of operations some time later in the year.

[Roger Greendeck]

How has their recruiting gone? Did they poach many Rex and QLink guys?

[knightflyer]

I seriously doubt they poached anybody except maybe one or two for the top C&T/Fleet positions and possibly not even them. The rest of the crew would have come from the application/Interview process.
Give it away Jim:}

[Stiff Under Carriage]

Two guys leaving from REX to Virgin ATR. Some others applied but haven't heard anything. Even from some who have C&T experience.

Bases in Brissy, 6 months as FO before conversion to Capt. Neither had ATR time.

I imagine more will leave if the opportunity arises.

Base Capt $105K I heard.

[tourismman]

Hearing EIS date for first 2 ATR's late August with first aircraft arriving late June and 2nd Late July.

[sled_driver71]

Somehow the first two are delayed off the production line. Odd for an old product no? Start date now late August I hear. Should give the boys at Skywest a chance to catch their breath...

[Going Nowhere]

Heard 1 from QLink in BNE is off, a few more have had a look and waiting a reply...

[Sqwark2000]

2 x FO's and poss 1 C&T from Mt Cook starting 01AUG in BNE. Upgrade for FO's in Nov so the story goes. Most junior guy has 3.75yrs on type.

[DeafStar]

Ive also heard a few Qlink guys off to Skytrans.

[Mr. Hat]

There is also talk of some of the Virgin Australia CAPT/FO's going across.

[GAFA]

True Mr Hat, there are Ejet Captains who have approached the Company about taking on Training and Checking positions and Ejet FO's are keen on command slots.

[Mr. Hat]

Any word on Terms and Conditions?

[GAFA]

Virgin Australia pilots received an EOI email today for Check and Training positions on the ATR.

[kiwilad]

Sorry what is EOI?

Terms are the SkyWest EBA on the FWA website. Co still negotiating a possible increase to the F50 rate for the ATR.

[VH-ABC]

EOI = Expression of interest bro.

[kiwilad]

Cheers, that makes sense.
Are they struggling for trainers?
How do Virgin pilots feel about it displacing the Embraer?

[GAFA]

TL refueller tells me the EOI from within Virgin Australia for training and check secondment to Skywest on the ATR has exceeded what both companies thought it would be. Looks like more pilots are chasing lifestyle rather than big jet flying

[SKYCAMEL]

Good to see those pilots in VB who screamed blue murder when 2 DEC's came in on the E Jet, are now prepared to take other pilots chances of a command! Bit hypocritical me thinks! And don't tell me "but its a Virgin Operation" :confused:

[GAFA]

What commands are they taking SKYCAMEL? Skywest has run two adds in the Australian for Training and Check pilots on the ATR so they are looking at employing outside pilots into these positions. Not many of the current Skywest F50 and F100 pilots want to move over to the east coast to take up these roles. So what's wrong with Virgin pilots applying for the same positions via the EOI.

My guess is most of the EOI's would have come from Ejet FO's who were told when they joined the company they would have commands on the Ejet sooner rather than latter and their experience has regional turboprop pilots (many held training and checking roles on turboprops) was needed on the Ejet. So why shouldn't they apply for the ATR?

Regarding the 2 DEC's on the Ejet, did Virgin advertise they needed 2 Captains based in Brisbane, no they didn't. The add was for Ejet pilots (not captains). And at the time the 2 DEC's were employed there were 10 Captains in Sydney who had bids in for a transfer to Brisbane and don't forget 80% of the Ejet FO's had bids in for commands.

[Skystar320]

I heard that alot of applicants for the job are from current QF drivers both turboprop and mainline!

Says something

[KRUSTY 34]

I guess some pilots just can't handle not being in judgement of their peers!

Or am I being cynical?

[c173]

suprised this hasnt been posted...or have i missed it
Photos: ATR ATR-72-500 (ATR-72-212A) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgin-Australia-Airlines/ATR-ATR-72-500-%28ATR-72-212A%29/1931816/L/&sid=7dd2b91f23ebbf8a8a3ace1096595f18)

[chuboy]

Very nice! Hadn't seen that prior to today. Ought to be a long trip for the pilots doing the delivery flight :eek:

[geeup]

Why would they not get ATR72-600???

[GAFA]

They are getting the -600 next year. First 4 aircraft are -500's.

[VBPCGUY]

Only difference between the -500 vs -600 is avionics upgrades in the cockpit.

Anyone know what rego block is being used for these?

[Dehavillanddriver]

And the engines

[VBPCGUY]

According to the EADS head of global sales the engines are identical, I spoke with him at Avalon Airshow..

[geeup]

-600 is light years ahead of the -500 :ok:

[muII]

500 has PW127-F

600 has PW127-M

Not the same engines, check their web site.

[VBPCGUY]

500 has PW127-F

600 has PW127-M

Not the same engines, check their web site.

The latest -500 are generally fitted with PW127M in the new version, the orginal 1997 onwards variants are fitted with the PW127F powerplants, the difference being the si blades over five blades.

I have heard VA will initially get -500 until -600 are available and then the -500 will be returned.

[43Inches]

PW-127M is just a tweaked -127F with better 1-Inop power, about 5% extra for take-off and max continuous. The 72-500 can and are being fitted with the M. The 72-600 has more improvements in cockpit and cabin technology, the airframe and performance are much the same as the -500 with a little better short field and payload capability brought on by the improved single engine performance.

[Mr. Hat]

Something that might interest the readers here is a statement made at the 2:22 mark.

[YOUTUBE]YouTube - ‪Full Interview with John Borghetti, CEO & Managing Director of the Virgin Blue Group of Airlines‬‏

[Chadzat]

Good pickup Mr Hat! The plot thickens......

[Icarus2001]

I would not read too much into his comments. He was flattering a WA crowd. Just like when a rock and roll star comes out on stage and says "hey Sydney, I love this place, yeah" plays to the egos of the locals.
Of course he would tell a WA audience how important they are to VA.

[Mr. Hat]

I think he's got more of an eye for WA than his predecessor thats for sure. The new crew room in Perth is a bit of an indicator..

I'd love to ask him what his position is on mining contract work. Maybe I will next time I have the chance.

[Stationair8]

When does the first ATR arrive?

[vorky]

Today apparently.

[Flightsimman]

Delayed a couple of weeks I hear (supposed to be here this week and maybe two aircraft arriving at once instead of the one)

:ok:

[chuboy]

BNE-GLT
BNE-PQQ
SYD-CBR (extra services)

Starting as of October this year in a shiny new ATR.

Virgin Australia to expand regional network « Virgin Australia Blog (http://blog.virginaustralia.com/destinations/virgin-australia-to-expand-regional-network/)

[topend3]

bye bye Strategic then on BNE-GLT

[Horatio Leafblower]

Virgin Australia Expands Regional Network Adding Gladstone and Port Macquarie and Increased Canberra Services

BRISBANE 28 JULY 2011: The Virgin Australia Group of Airlines today announced the first routes for its new ATR aircraft, under its regional alliance with Skywest (subject to regulatory approval).

From October 2011 the airline will commence new services from Brisbane to Gladstone and Brisbane to Port Macquarie and add extra services between Canberra and Sydney, bringing the total number of flights between the two cities to 60 each week.

Virgin Australia’s Group Executive of Alliances, Network and Yield, Merren McArthur, said the introduction of the new routes of Brisbane to Gladstone and Brisbane to Port Macquarie reflected the airline’s commitment to the expansion of its regional network.

We are adding services to two unique regional markets to provide guests with more choice and more convenient schedules to connect with our domestic and international services and partner airlines.

“Gladstone is a booming city with a thriving economy that supports the resources, tourism and primary production sectors. We have introduced a schedule to suit both the corporate and leisure traveller in this very important market,” Ms. McArthur said.

Ms. McArthur said the daily services from Brisbane to Port Macquarie on New South Wales’ mid-north coast meant guests no longer need to transit via Sydney when visiting Queensland. The services also provide access to Virgin Australia’s extensive range of international and domestic connections from Brisbane.

Virgin Australia will now operate Sydney to Port Macquarie services using the new ATR aircraft, replacing the Embraer E170 aircraft.

The ATR 72-500 aircraft will operate:

Double daily week-day return Brisbane to Gladstone;
Daily return Brisbane to Port Macquarie;
Double daily Sydney to Port Macquarie; and
Up to six daily return services between Sydney to Canberra

Ms McArthur said the introduction of the ATR aircraft represented a new era in Australian regional air travel.

“The 68-seater one class turbo-prop aircraft is spacious and stylish in keeping with Virgin Australia’s new business model.

The first two ATR aircraft are named after the Far North Queensland beaches - Mission Beach and Four-Mile Beach.

Under the alliance, Skywest will operate and maintain the aircraft on behalf of Virgin Australia using Virgin Australia’s branding and quality inflight product and service.

The new aircraft fleet will be leased from specialist leasing company Avation PLC (LSE: AVAP), with an initial term of 10 years.

[22k]

Have any arrived yet? Pics? Very interested to see the livery...

[7378FE]

See here for a pic

Virgin Australia Blog (http://blog.virginaustralia.com/)

[chuboy]

There is a pic of the E-Jet in new livery floating around as well. It looks much better on smaller aircraft where there isn't so much whitespace on the body IMO.

EDIT: Found it.
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n517/gunna64/IMG_1041_800H_VHZPR_20110727_YSSY.jpg

[22k]

Thanks for that. The Ejet looks good, dunno bout the ATR though, looks a bit weird!

[DutyofCare]

We were booking flights yesterday & noticed that we can't yet book with V - via Skywest - to fly BN-PQQ ?
We also tried BN-GLA without any luck either ?
Most prop that CASA have to approve the running etc...
Flights to PQQ still via SY & onto an Ejet to PQQ in Oct.
Very surprised that V are looking at the BN-PQQ sector with the ATR considering its recent poor performances ???
Recent news that Brindy pax #'s BN-CFS-BN sector are down on their M3 & considering a reduced schedule next month.
Skywest is looking at ramping up 1 more round of recruiting this year due to lack of expected ATR ANZ interest & poor interview notices issued earlier on !

[BackdoorBandit]

Thanks for that. The Ejet looks good, dunno bout the ATR though, looks a bit weird!

That pretty much sums up the ATR!

[KRUSTY 34]

I may have said this before, but can anyone tell me how they are going to get anywhere near a reasonable return, on what by any stretch is a significant investment? :confused:

[puff]

I'm guessing they'll be doing the BNE-PQQ-BNE sector to physically cycle the a/c from BNE to SYD, much the same as Qlink flying the Q400 from BNE to CBR.

I'd say once the network grows and there are more a/c they'll drop it if the numbers aren't there. DJ would have the figures on how many people are flying from BNE to PQQ via SYD too to have a bit of an idea if it will work. The ATR will be able to offer more competitive pricing than what Brindy were with a Metro or the Jetstream.

Remember the days of the coastal milk run - BNE-OOL-BNK-CFS-PQQ-TRE-WLM !

[sleeve of wizard]

Planned ATR72 aircraft operational routes and its effective date as follows. Note these are currently appearing in Amadeus timetable only. Virgin Australia’s website has not yet showing these changes. Also, there are some discrepancies on planned ATR72 operation to/from Sydney:

Brisbane – Gladstone eff 17OCT11
DJ1709 BNE0615 – 0735GLT AT7 x67
DJ1715 BNE1540 – 1700GLT AT7 x6

DJ1712 GLT0805 – 0925BNE AT7 x67
DJ1718 GLT1730 – 1850BNE AT7 x6

Brisbane – Port Macquarie eff 19OCT11
DJ1766 BNE1000 – 1225PQQ AT7 D
DJ1763 PQQ1010 – 1030BNE AT7 x6
DJ1765 PQQ1325 – 1345BNE AT7 6

Sydney – Port Macquarie eff 19OCT11
DJ1188 PQQ1255 – 1400SYD AT7 D

Sydney – Canberra eff 30OCT11 (Below are flights currently loaded with ATR72 in Amadeus timetable display)
DJ632 SYD0805 – 0900CBR AT7 D
DJ642 SYD1105 – 1200CBR AT7 D
DJ664 SYD1805 – 1900CBR AT7 6

DJ627 CBR0630 – 0720SYD AT7 x67
DJ639 CBR0930 – 1020SYD AT7 D
DJ647 CBR1230 – 1320SYD AT7 D
DJ655 CBR1530 – 1620SYD AT7 D
DJ673 CBR2100 – 2150SYD AT7 5

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Anyone know what coin is on offer?

SN

[sunnySA]

Sydney – Port Macquarie eff 19OCT11
DJ1188 PQQ1255 – 1400SYD AT7 D

Sydney – Canberra eff 30OCT11 (Below are flights currently loaded with ATR72 in Amadeus timetable display)
DJ632 SYD0805 – 0900CBR AT7 D
DJ642 SYD1105 – 1200CBR AT7 D
DJ664 SYD1805 – 1900CBR AT7 6

DJ627 CBR0630 – 0720SYD AT7 x67
DJ639 CBR0930 – 1020SYD AT7 D
DJ647 CBR1230 – 1320SYD AT7 D
DJ655 CBR1530 – 1620SYD AT7 D
DJ673 CBR2100 – 2150SYD AT7 5 Will the ATRs fly using rego or Virgin1188etc as their a/g RT?

[MonsterC01]

When the ATR landed in Brissie the other night it was using the call sign "Southern Cross XXXX".

[GAFA]

Southern Cross Aviation ferried the aircraft to Australia, hence the Southern Cross callsign.

[Going Nowhere]

Route proving flights in/out of BNE over the last few days have been using the rego as a callsign.

[tourismman]

Yes but the paper work shows OZW.

I wonder if they will call up as Skywest when they commence RPT flights ??

[bigbrother]

So will the crew from Canberra be getting dizzy from multiple CB-Sy flights every day of the week do you think, or will they transit Sy to other ports? The boredom of CB-Sy might become a real issue short term. I hear a testing will be done in a synthetic trainer in REdcliffe??? Is this true???

[Fuel-Off]

Why would Virgin be appended to the ATRs when they are effectively a different business? I'm only presuming this by just looking at the Virgin Group's list of different businesses and associated callsigns...
Virgin = Virgin (duh)
Bluebird = Pacific Blue
Bluey = Pacific Blue flight operated by Virgin Australia crews
V Oz = V Australia.

Same applies to Qantas and QantasLink. Imagine a mainline driver hearing those 'turboprop riff-raff' using a Qantas callsign :E (But then, go figure about Jetconnect).

Just my two cents worth, happy to be corrected.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[maximusthrustus]

I am interested in applying for a DEC position for the Canberra basing.
Can anyone here shed some light on the interview procedure/timetable with Skywest?

[Typhoon650]

I don't see the crew getting bored doing the CBR-SYD shuttles, we already have the same aircraft coming through CBR at least 4 times a day on that run I believe. I see the same regos appear an awful lot on that run. ZHE rings a bell, but haven't been paying that much attention.
If boredom is to be an issue, it will be existent already.

[Bankstown]

Same applies to Qantas and QantasLink. Imagine a mainline driver hearing those 'turboprop riff-raff' using a Qantas callsign (But then, go figure about Jetconnect).
Jetconnect,
....and Atlas Air,
....and Express Freighters!

[ozbiggles]

Doing Cb-Sy all day would never be boring
Getting into Sy is different every time!

[Capn Bloggs]

I hear a testing will be done in a synthetic trainer in REdcliffe???
MMA's Link Trainer. That'll sort you younguns out! :}

[didjubrinabeer]

Hey Guys,

Just wondering if anyone would care to share any interview stuff....panel...technical...sim ride???
Been applying...and they haven't said no yet....ATRS sounds very interesting...

Thanks and happy landings:ok:

[Typhoon650]

I spent some time in and around the ATR during the week, I like it very much. Cabin room is as good as the E170/190 and the seats have a little more leg room.
Everyone thinks they look like a mini C130, they are a BIG turboprop. I'm 6ft tall so you can use that for scale:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/typhoonpud/3d878c00.jpg

[missy]

Have commenced ops from SYD, flying with VOZ flight number with an "S" appended. I hear the ATR crews seem ill-prepared for Sydney, poor knowledge of taxi routes, transponder procedures, notifying bay numbers.

[GAFA]

There were 30 to 40 Virgin Australia pilots (Capts and FO's) who put EOI's in to go over to the ATR at Skywest for 2 years, to assist with the start up. But Skywest new better and took none, now it seems the operation is less than professional.

[bubble.head]

Saw the ATR in operation the other day, were the crew suppose to be wearing Virgin's uniform or their own? The crew I saw were wearing different to the nice red dress that the virgin crew wears.

[VH-FTS]

There were 30 to 40 Virgin Australia pilots (Capts and FO's) who put EOI's in to go over to the ATR at Skywest for 2 years, to assist with the start up. But Skywest new better and took none, now it seems the operation is less than professional.


Wow Gafa, you seem a bit jaded from your two Skywest posts from yesterday. Got overlooked huh?

[THE ORACLE]

The moment has finally arrived and SkyWest (SXR) is operating, for the first time ever, in east coast regional markets on behalf of Virgin Australia (DJ).

I wish the SkyWest operational people well, but this will be very interesting and in the end there will be much pain. Why? If you are interested in the fundamentals of this 'tussle' please review my earlier observations on pages 6 and 7, as nothing has changed.

The ultimate winner of the forthcoming 'war' will be the operator with the deepest pockets (Qantaslink or SkyWest?) and there are no prizes for guessing who has the most $$$.

Since my posts on pages 6 and 7 there have been 3 other significant developments that will have a very big impact on 'the battle' going forward.

Firstly, within a few weeks of the joint SXR/DJ joint venture announcement, Qantas announced they had bought Network Aviation in Perth and then followed up with another press release confirming they were buying 10 Fokker 100's for Network to further contest the FIFO markets in WA.

Secondly, Qantaslink has announced within recent weeks they are moving 2 x 717's to Brisbane to expand and support the Q400 coverage of Qantaslink in the QLD regional markets.

Finally, SXR's financials have just been posted on the ASX website showing among other things the split of their revenue streams, between WA FIFO work (which will ultimately be impacted by the expansion of Network with the Fokker 100's - Don't forget the former SkyWest guru, Hugh Davin, is now working for Qantaslink in WA), RPT revenue, their profit and dividend for the year, as well as few important notes confirming SXR and NOT DJ is responsible for paying the ATR leases and other costs.

The Oracle

[Chadzat]

Firstly, The Oracle (and many others) it is "Skywest" with a little w, as its all the one word. SkyWest is an American airline. :8

Secondly, this operation (as has been stated MANY, many times) is essentially "turn-key" for Virgin. It is a very similar business relationship to Qantas and Cobham. Skywest is probably paid an agreed 'rate' for operating the ATR's, which would include the leasing costs of the aircraft. Virgin probably get to keep the rest on top of that rate. So if they promote the proverbial out of the services and get full ATR's running around the place, then thats how they make their money. Skywest doesn't care if they are flying around 68 or 6 bums on seats. So essentially half of your post is just bunkam.

I do agree however that things will get interesting over in the west now that Sunstate are putting Q400's in. If utilised correctly they will do really well with the long distances between ports in WA. If the economics fit, they would make a killing with some smaller Pilbara mines, if the runway infrastructure is up for it. Shaving 30-40mins of a 3hr flight in a F50 or Q300 would make some of those routes viable to be done in a TP, rather than a jet.

Finally I think some perspective is in order in terms of what has been done with the ATR setup. Skywest has had to put into service 4 brand new to the AOC aircraft serving routes that includes 3 major capital airports, including the most TP unfriendly- Sydney. What are Qantaslink doing in the West? Putting 2 x an established on AOC type into 2 routes in WA. Big deal.

[GAFA]

From Will Horton (CAPA Aviation)

The Virgin/Skywest deal was four -500s (three delivered so far), four -600s (to be delivered starting next year), and options on five -600s. Leasing company “Aviation” owns the aircraft, which are operated by Skywest for Virgin — an arrangement conducted as Virgin did not have the time and resources, particularly pilot training, to launch its own operation. This deal has since caused some friction between Virgin and Skywest as their CEOs disagree over how/where the ATRs should be deployed. Virgin envisions one day operating its ATRs by itself without Skywest, with some potentially interesting tie-ins and synergies with Air New Zealand, who last week ordered 12 ATR72-600s to complement its -500 fleet and is keen to work with Virgin.

The Skywest operation has cost commands and base transfers at Virgin Australia and if they had of taken a few of the pilots who put in EOI's it would have shown the Virgin pilot group that Skywest pilots understood the situation and perhaps opened the door for movement from the ATR into Virgin Australia. Instead the actions taken have now rocked the boat of the second biggest pilot group in Australia and both VIPA and the AFAP have put clauses in their log of claims for Virgin Australia's new EBA to ensure it doesn't happen again.

As you can see from what Will wrote, the only reason Skywest got the gig was due to a resource issue. The routes and bases (and size) will depend on where Virgin want's the aircraft to go. Some of these routes will always be turboprop routes while others will grow to be all jet or a mix of both. The contract between Virgin and Skywest will have get out clauses for both parties should they decide to end it before the 10 years (almost 9 years now) are up.

[Chadzat]

if they had of taken a few of the pilots who put in EOI's it would have shown the Virgin pilot group that Skywest pilots understood the situation

Unfortunately Skywest pilots dont make boardroom decisions. Sorry to disappoint. :ok:

[THE ORACLE]

Chadzat,

Let's just get this straight.

Let's discuss my 'bunkam' to use your words. Virgin Australia, who LOST $80 Million last financial year are going to pay 'Skywest' (spelling error corrected) under a wet/damp lease arrangement sufficient $$ to cover SXR's fixed and direct costs as well as provide what would esentially be a guaranteed profit contribution to SXR regardless of whether SXR carry '68 or 6 bums on seats'. I hope you will agree there must be a sufficient profit element in the lease rate to cover SXR's financial risk, unless of course SXR has decided to register itself as a charity rather than remain as a commercial airline business with hopes of paying future dividends to its shareholders.

Chum, I don't think Mr Borghetti is a chump, nor father christmas giving away financial 'gifts' to SXR to ensure their future profitability. Only Governments offer those types of subsidies to airlines and the ministerial minders try to shave every public penny during such negotiations. Virgin would certainly have bargained hard on the lease rate, because being a loss maker, they too must count every penny. I think certainly there will be some $$ for 'slack' during the start up phase, but down the road the 'tensioning clauses' will certainly come into play and throughout all this Qlink will be deep discounting on any contested routes to ensure passengers stick with the 'ROO'.

You also mentioned Cobham/QLink as an example of the type of business model jointly struck by SXR/DJ, however, the NJS (now Cobham)/Qantaslink model was originally struck many year ago to provide essential services over remote and what were then largely uncontested routes.

Contesting established east coast regional markets to take business away from aggressive and well funded existing operators is a very different dynamic to the business previously and currently existing between Cobham/Qantaslink. Cobham in its own right is a $ Billion company with extensive financial resources whereas SXR made a very small profit last year and declared a $00.01 cent dividend and Virgin lost $80 Million.

Do the math!!!

The Oracle

[Lester Burnham]

Silly ORACLE. Don't you know that the ONLY secret to running an airline is a) only buy aircraft pilots like and want to fly and; b) only managers that pilots like run successful businesses. There's no room for maths in the airline business.

I am amazed that no one looks at this objectively; the ATR deal puts 18 large turboprops into a market that is already serviced. Is there that much additional demand? This is an enormously risky deal, and pits Virgin against the real superstar in the QF Group, QFLink. Who has ever beaten QF Link in the regional game?

[Typhoon650]

Considering the ATR's are only replacing E170/190's at the moment, I hardly see how they can be losing more money for Virginwest, when they cost less to run than the Ejets over the short sectors they're being operated on.
I think the ATR's are a very smart move for Virgin's economy shuttle runs from Sydney to Canberra and to be honest, with the prices Qantas link charge for their regional tickets, I expect Virginwest to make good inroads into regional transport.
The ATR crews can't be doing too badly with route familiarisation/ airport familiarisation, they're always within 15-20 mins of schedule at the end of the day here in Canberra when they terminate.

[Scamp Damp]

I see the ATRs going to EML starting early next year....

[FlareHighLandLong]

:BUMP:

Ok - lots of Skywest threads running - this one seems to have the most info in it.

Anyone got some more up to date info on arrival dates of new frames, and/or expansion plans such as new bases etc?

What's current CONFIRMED number of frames they're getting?

[Goat Whisperer]

Fifteen. 15. XV.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From this morning's NEWS.....

ACCC to approve Skywest-Virgin alliance | Latest Business & Australian Stock market News | Perth Now (http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/local-business/accc-to-approve-skywest-virgin-alliance/story-e6frg2s3-1226306964023)

Cheers:ok:

[Merlins Magic]

Since this is a rumor network......

Heard 5th hand that CASA will not give approval for more ATRs until Slywest pick up there act. Don't have the resources to support what they already have.

[Nil defects]

Are the 20 odd 457 visa guys coming type rated or are they training in BKK too?

[Wellwellwell]

Why would they go to BKK, I would have thought AKL would have been more logical.

[Throbin Hood]

Bangkok beats 'logical'..

[Goat Whisperer]

Toulouse for endorsements....

[Sqwark2000]

maybe for the 600's, but def Skywest fellas training in AKL's 500 sim

[White and Fluffy]

Any news on further crewing bases?

Is Melbourne on the cards or maybe Cairns?