PDA

View Full Version : Making blind calls to "Traffic"


soaringhigh650
4th Jan 2011, 02:34
The radio convention looks like this:

[Location] Smallville Traffic
[Aircraft Type / Callsign] Cessna 924AB
[Position / Intentions] Final runway 22 - for touch and go
[Location] Smallville

Do we add location to the end of the transmission in case the beginning gets clipped?

Big Pistons Forever
4th Jan 2011, 03:07
The radio convention looks like this:

[Location] Smallville Traffic
[Aircraft Type / Callsign] Cessna 924AB
[Position / Intentions] Final runway 22 - for touch and go
[Location] Smallville

Do we add location to the end of the transmission in case the beginning gets clipped?

Yes it is a good practice

Shiny Side Up
4th Jan 2011, 03:14
Yes in case the first part is stepped on, and also because the same ctaf frequency can be used at multiple fields that are within radio range of each other. There are a few places in socal like this...

darkroomsource
4th Jan 2011, 04:31
There's places with multiple airports on the same frequency all over the place, not just in California.

I think there'a another reason, not quite so obvious, and that is it defines the message as being over. You start with location, end with location. If you're listening, you won't (shouldn't) transmit until you've heard the ending location. Not sure how valuable that really is, but maybe.

SNS3Guppy
4th Jan 2011, 06:25
Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM) 4-1-9:

6. Recommended self-announce phraseologies: It should be noted that aircraft operating to or from another nearby airport may be making self-announce broadcasts on the same UNICOM or MULTICOM frequency. To help identify one airport from another, the airport name should be spoken at the beginning and end of each self-announce transmission.

Katamarino
4th Jan 2011, 09:20
Adding this is very important. I once flew a circuit, and onto finals, at an airport in Texas with CTAF; just after I made each call, the same call was made by another aircraft! When he called finals just after I did, and we could still not see each other, I went around. He was still nowhere to be found, and it was discovered that he was in the circuit at another airport miles away that happened to have the same runway; he had not been calling out the airport name :}

SNS3Guppy
4th Jan 2011, 13:32
Remember to look for traffic with your eyes, and not ears.

Far too many try to let the radio do their traffic scan for them.

One of my biggest annoyances on the radio is the pilot that, upon arriving at the end of the runway, announced "Mercer area traffic, Skyhawk Eight Five Niner Xray Foxtrot holding short of runway one six, any inbound traffic please advise."

Pilot DAR
4th Jan 2011, 13:46
I completely agree with Guppy, VFR stands for Visual Flight Rules, not vocal flight rules.

That said, to respond to the original question, yes, as a matter of practice, when I transmit, I make the name of the airport the last think I say. It is the most important part of my transmission, and I want it to be memorable for other pilots in that area.

India Four Two
4th Jan 2011, 14:38
The airfield name is also important so that someone else can reply with:

NJK, wrong frequency, this is Okotoks, not Black DiamondWhoops :eek: At least it wasn't Calgary Tower.

Cusco
4th Jan 2011, 16:52
It certainly is the practice in USA:

Shame the CAA don't give the same advice in UK for Safetycom..........

Cusco

Jan Olieslagers
4th Jan 2011, 17:23
Well, to be frank I never heard it recommended, not even in a specific R/T training (paid!) But it seems a good idea, comes just in time to go with my good intentions for 2011.

Pilot DAR
4th Jan 2011, 17:57
The "proper" (whatever that is) use of the radio in the aircraft seems be taught much differently now, than the "old days". When I learned to use the radio (mid 70's), we were taught to convey what needed to be said, including the pertinent information, without un-necessary, or prolonged transmissions, or non-essential information. Certianly no chatter, other than frequencies assigned for that purpose.

More recently ('cause I now hear it all the time), someone is teaching that the aircraft radio can be used like the internet, to convey large amounts of often poorly thought out, and only vaguly relevent information.

While taking helicopter training a few years back, it was taught to me that at apparently geograhpically random places in uncontrolled airspace, one should suddenly broadcast into the airwaves, one's type, altitude, direction, and destination. The appropriate timing of these transmissions seemed to be as predictable to me as my cat suddenly needing to be in another room.

Upon my checking with Flight Service as to their thoughts on this practice, I was promptly told, by a well practiced specialist, (as I related here) VFR stands for Visual Flight Rules, not Vocal Flight Rules. Their very real basis for this position on the subject is that the transmissions are being made on the prevailing FLight Service frequency for the area, and simply tying up their much more appropriate use of their frequency.

Thus, I revert to the "old" way of doing things on the radio. I watch out a lot, and transmit a little, at appropriate times relative to geography, airspace, and traffic patterns.

But, if I need to transmit, telling people where I am, is of the greatest importance to me. I want to attract local attention by telling people where I am first, and inform the person who was late to hear my transmission, by telling people where I am last as well...

patowalker
4th Jan 2011, 21:20
AIC:

The frequency assigned is 135.475 MHz and is known as 'SAFETYCOM'. Pilots should be aware that SAFETYCOM is not a UK equivalent of the UNICOM system used in the United States, and does not work in the same way.
...
Phraseology is to comply with the requirements of CAP 413 (Radiotelephony Manual) Chapter 4, Section 6.2.2
...
It is important that RTF is concise and unambiguous, and should include the name of the aerodrome

We have higher standards and are expected to hear the name of the aerodrome the first time. :)

Crash one
4th Jan 2011, 23:23
Yes we do have standards, not necesarily better though. Say airfield name before & after is good practice, in fact I'd say essential. & what is wrong with "over"? The mil still use it, like what I was tort.

patowalker
5th Jan 2011, 01:55
Phraseology is to comply with the requirements of CAP 413 (Radiotelephony Manual) Chapter 4, Section 6.2.2

"Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, FINAL Runway 09" seems pretty clear to me.

SNS3Guppy
5th Jan 2011, 03:17
"Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, FINAL Runway 09" seems pretty clear to me.

It's clear if everyone hears the entire transmission the first time, the same frequency isn't in use by several airports at the same time, and everyone is flying the same size traffic pattern with the same type of aircraft.

If someone is going to use their callsign, why not include the aircraft type? I can't read your registration number from a mile or two away, but I can tell what type of aircraft you are. If three airplanes end up competing for the same spot of airspace, one a Cessna Skyhawk, one Piper Warrior, and one a Learjet, G-ABCD won't tell me much. If instead, I hear "Borton traffic, Skyhawk G-ABCD, three mile final, runway 09, Borton," I have a much better idea of what type aircraft is calling, where it is (three mile final as opposed to short final or ten mile final), and what to look for.

Some get a little too carried away, especially with accurate GPS indications, and one hears call-outs every half-mile from thirty miles away (Warrior 86X 11.3 miles west, etc). It's useful to know, however, if one is on quarter mile final, rather than a fifteen mile straight-in.

There's certainly such thing as too much verbiage, and that's not good either. The pilot who call in, "Yadalahooie area traffic, Cessna skyhawk November Niner Six Foxtrot Bandana Ringworm is about sixteen miles west of Hansons Pond near the old grain silo, heading more or less east. We're about eight thousand feet, planning on landing on runway six, and we're figuring on flying over the field for a left downwind to six. My sign is Leo, I'm wearing a green plaid shirt with black shorts, my turn-ons include cats that don't shed, lawn mowers, and flat beer. I like long walks in the rain, refried beans, and the color blue. Any traffic in the area, please advice, Yadalahooie." Perhaps a little much.

Pilot DAR
5th Jan 2011, 03:53
Egads Guppy, you spoke my mind!

SNS3Guppy
5th Jan 2011, 05:26
I'm watching Canadian Bacon, on satellite, right now so I may just be channeling Canadian. We'll see after the show is over...

Joao da Silva
5th Jan 2011, 06:12
If someone is going to use their callsign, why not include the aircraft type? I can't read your registration number from a mile or two away, but I can tell what type of aircraft you are. If three airplanes end up competing for the same spot of airspace, one a Cessna Skyhawk, one Piper Warrior, and one a Learjet, G-ABCD won't tell me much. If instead, I hear "Borton traffic, Skyhawk G-ABCD, three mile final, runway 09, Borton," I have a much better idea of what type aircraft is calling, where it is (three mile final as opposed to short final or ten mile final), and what to look for.Because the local standard phraseology is designed differently and CAP413 sets out the phrases to be used in the UK.

You should know, as a professional pilot, that the purpose of having standard phrases is to achieve standardisation and increased comprehension. Tenerife in 1977 taught us the importance of that.

Anyway, as you said in an earlier post, you should be looking for the traffic with your eyes, not your ears.

As a 'non aligned' person, I find that the radio phraseology in the UK and USA is different, but works well in each domain, so long as people respect the mandated phrases.

SlipSlider
5th Jan 2011, 12:10
The appropriate use of aircraft type is very sensible and CAP413 already states this:

Section 2. General Phraseology

Aircraft Callsign Prefixes

Where no confusion is likely to occur and the additional information may help the controller or other pilots, the name of the aircraft manufacturer, the aircraft model, or the aircraft category, e.g. 'Helicopter', may be used as a prefix to the registration e.g. 'Harvard G-ABCD'

However, as ever, brevity is of the essence, hence "Cessna G-ABCD" is useful, but "Rheims Cessna F152 Aerobat G-ABCD" may be deemed a little too much info on every call :)

gpn01
5th Jan 2011, 12:26
The appropriate use of aircraft type is very sensible and CAP413 already states this:

However, as ever, brevity is of the essence, hence "Cessna G-ABCD" is useful, but "Rheims Cessna F152 Aerobat G-ABCD" may be deemed a little too much info on every call :)

Can be handy to know if it's a Cessna 152 or a Cessna Citation!....or a Piper Dakota vs Douglas Dakota.....or, or.... :-)

patowalker
5th Jan 2011, 14:22
"Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, FINAL Runway 09" seems pretty clear to me.
If someone is going to use their callsign, why not include the aircraft type?

'cause he included the aircraft type when joined the circuit, in accordance with CAP 413.

SNS3Guppy
5th Jan 2011, 15:13
Of course, everybody on the radio heard that first transmission too, didn't they?

Use the airport identification at the beginning and end of every transmission, but don't bother to identify the aircraft save for once when entering the traffic pattern? You don't see a possible break in the logic, there?

How much more difficult is it to identify the aircraft when using the callsign? Skyhawk G-ABCD is harder than G-ABCD?

Because the local standard phraseology is designed differently and CAP413 sets out the phrases to be used in the UK.

You should know, as a professional pilot, that the purpose of having standard phrases is to achieve standardisation and increased comprehension. Tenerife in 1977 taught us the importance of that.

I do know that as a professional pilot, and I also know that CAP413 directs you to identify the aircraft type as part of your callsign, as Slipslider has noted. Do you know that?

patowalker
5th Jan 2011, 21:25
and I also know that CAP413 directs you to identify the aircraft type as part of your callsignNot on Safetycom:

6.3 Unattended Aerodrome Phraseology Examples
...
Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, 10 miles
southwest JOINING OVERHEAD

Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, Overhead
joining for Runway 09 (if
determined)
This transmission is optional and may be
advisable depending on other traffic in the
vicinity

Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, Dead side
descending Runway 09
This transmission is optional and may be
advisable depending on other traffic in the
vicinity

Borton Traffic, G-ABCD,
DOWNWIND (Right-hand if
applicable) Runway 09 (Intentions if
applicable)

Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, BASE LEG
Runway 09
This transmission is optional and may be
advisable depending on other traffic in the
vicinity

Borton Traffic, G-ABCD, FINAL
Runway 09

vee-tail-1
6th Jan 2011, 17:55
Oh dear! Its very British to prefer to obey rules, rather than achieve the spirit of regulations.

As regards safetycom:

It's common sense to give Location before and after the message. And it's common sense to give r/w & traffic info from the ground if someone needs it. :*

The French have been doing it that way on 123.5 for years.

Joao da Silva
6th Jan 2011, 18:36
Mr Guppy

Now Patowalker has posted the reference, do you get it? :E

patowalker
6th Jan 2011, 19:58
It's common sense to give Location before and after the message.
...
The French have been doing it that way on 123.5 for years.

Not so. I had to learn to use 123.5 before the DGAC issued my licence.

SNS3Guppy
6th Jan 2011, 20:36
Now Patowalker has posted the reference, do you get it?


Patowalker didn't post a reference or citation; he copied a few lines.

Get what, exactly? At what point in the information posted is the aviator directed not to include the airport name during each transmission? Where is the user expressely told not to do so? Where is the user told not to use the aircraft type in each transmission?

Oh dear! Its very British to prefer to obey rules, rather than achieve the spirit of regulations.

Quite, but where the the rule advising against or prohibiting using one's aircraft type along with the callsign, and announcing the airport at the beginning and end of each transmission. Nothing about being British or conforming to LASORS (or CAP413, for that matter) would lead one to do otherwise.

CAP 413, Chapter 2, 1.8.2 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap413.pdf) does say:

"The name of either the aircraft manufacturer, or name of aircraft model, or name ofnthe aircraft category (e.g. helicopter or gyrocopter) may be used as a prefix to the callsign."

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1615/safetycom_review.pdf

The Safetycom Review Final makes the following comment regarding use of the aircraft location in each transmission:

"Because SAFETYCOM operates on a single frequency throughout the UK it is vital that pilots include the location at which they are operating, otherwise the information they transmit is useless to other pilots. All transmissions on SAFETYCOM should start with the phrase ‘XXXXX Traffic’, as explained in Chapter 4 of CAP 413 (Radiotelephony Manual) and Safety Sense Leaflet 22, which is published in LASORS."

Is it really such a stretch to see that the transmission is wisely ended with the airport identification, as well?

The Safetycom Review Final goes on to state:

"The importance of including the location in transmissions made on SAFETYCOM will be strongly emphasised in future information regarding the frequency."

Regarding using the radio to look for traffic, as some are wont to do, the same Review Final states:

"Pilots should also be aware that non-radio equipped aircraft operate widely in the UK’s uncontrolled airspace, and SAFETYCOM is not a substitute for good lookout, but an addition to it, to be used only within 10nm of the aerodrome and below a height of 2000ft above the aerodrome elevation. It is for the pilot to decide on the most appropriate frequency in the circumstances of the flight. Pilots should also be aware that not all other aircraft will be operating on the same frequency. As ever, good lookout is essential and SAFETYCOM is only an addition to this."

CAP 413, Chapter 4, 6.1.4 states:

"All transmissions at unattended aerodromes shall be addressed to '(Aerodromename) Traffic'. No reply to an unattended aerodrome report shall be transmitted."

Note this is all transmissions; all transmissions will include the airport name.

Perhaps most importantly, 6.1.6 states:

"Unattended aerodrome reports are made at the discretion of the pilot. However, to ensure the traffic awareness of other pilots is correctly maintained, if a pilot elects to make reports, all those reports not listed as ‘optional’ should be included. Optional calls (illustrated in paragraph 6.3) may be included if additional traffic information is likely to assist traffic organisation or to enhance safety."

While British compunction may insist on adherence to regulation and rules, CAP 413 specifically states that calls are at the discretion of the pilot.

Unless frequency congestion dictates otherwise, there's no good reason why one shouldn't use the aircraft type or identification in the callsign, and end it with the airport location.

Yes, I do get it.

Joao da Silva
7th Jan 2011, 09:28
Standard phraseology, unicomm or safetycom, is a good thing.

If the UK authorities felt that adding the aerodrome name at the need was helpful, they would advise this, if the USA authorities did not wish this, they would remove it. Maybe CAP413 will add 'aerodrome name traffic' in the future and then it will be standard.

The standard phraseology differs, but is effective, because everyone can learn it and communicate better. If I fly in the US, I revise a US reference and run through it with an instructor, likewise for the UK.

When people start to do their own thing, it goes wrong. There is no place for a 'not made here' orientation, in my opinion.

Local arrangements work, let's use them as promulgated.

On the other hand, if one genuinely feels that an improvement can be made, contact the local authorities and explain why, they may take it on board in the future.

For clarity (and having attended UK school from age 5 to 18, so being a native level speaker of the British variety of English), I would point out that you appear to have misinterpreted the use of a word in your assertion "While British compunction may insist on adherence to regulation and rules, CAP 413 specifically states that calls are at the discretion of the pilot."

This means that it is at the pilot's discretion to make or not make the call. That is all it means and it is not a licence to make up your own phraseology.

SNS3Guppy
7th Jan 2011, 13:41
How ironic it is to see you fight from the opposite corner! Only a very short while ago, you were the objecting to a pilot including one word extra (i.e. "visual") in a response to traffic information from ATC!

My position on the subject has never changed, and I'm not familiar with this disparity of which you speak I suspect that you simply misunderstood whatever was said. Perhaps you can cite a reference.

This means that it is at the pilot's discretion to make or not make the call. That is all it means and it is not a licence to make up your own phraseology.

I don't think it can be made any more clear: the Safetycom review, and indeed the CAP 413 manual very clearly states that it's advisable to includethe airport name, as well as the aircraft type in the call. Numerous citations and actual references have been given you. I think vee-tail-1, who stated "Oh dear! Its very British to prefer to obey rules, rather than achieve the spirit of regulations," was very much on the money. Except in this case, even after the very British have been given chapter and verse, the stubbornness simply won't let them believe it. You don't seem to care what is written, just that you do as you think you've been taught.

Being that closed-minded does you very little good.

Perhaps this is but one more case of things being different in the UK...like carburetor heat working differently, mixture adjustment working differently, no need to review or have or understand the aircraft flight manual, no need to preheat, yada, yada, yada. The UK is a special place, apparently, like some geopolitical altered state of reality.

Most interesting.

RatherBeFlying
7th Jan 2011, 14:51
The basic human factor is that the very first few syllables of a radio transmission are not heard, but when you're talking to a tower, everybody in the vicinity already knows who you are talking to.

With shared frequencies, it's more difficult. At my home drome where two nearby airports share the same freq, we have noticed that the two names can sound very much alike and that most of us in the air listen out for the name at the end just to make sure. A few thousand feet up, we also share the freq with apron control at a big airport.

Back when I was learning to fly, I began this process on unicom frequencies without being told to do so by an instructor or reading it in a manual. Now the instructors teach it and it's in the manuals, at least in North America and France.

mikehallam
7th Jan 2011, 15:34
I agree.

When on SafetyCom I find many users do swallow the first vital location word, or perhaps press the tit a split second after they start yakking. Can be scary when loud and can't see anything out the window !

As you're not supposed to ask 'say again', FWIW, I try to speak slowly and clearly and add the strip name at both ends in the hopes it'll catch on.
Seems to be getting better around Sussex (smile).

Joao da Silva
8th Jan 2011, 02:44
CAP 413 manual very clearly states that it's advisable to includethe airport name, as well as the aircraft type in the call.It does not state it is advisable to include the airport name, it specifies it will be included.

It does not state that it is advisable to include the aircraft type, it specifies that this may be included if it does not cause confusion. That extra identification may also be generic rather than type, i.e. 'helicopter.'

Of course, the aircraft type will be given on initial call to a ground station.

You still do not seem to understand what these British manuals really mean, but I put that down to your North American culture, since that often applies the other way, too.

Coming from a minor European country, I do not have any great sense of righteousness or 'made here' and just get on with trying to fit in with everyone's local ways of working.

If you feel so strongly, why don't you write to the CAA and tell them where they got it wrong?

CanAmdelta1
8th Jan 2011, 17:02
If I am in your airspace near an uncontrolled aerodome, wouldn't you all like to know where I am and what I am flying? I surely would.

It is quite unsettling to transmit "Lindsay traffic Cessna 172 GABC turning 1/2 mile final for r/w 31, Lindsay traffic" and immediately hear someone doing the same behind you. When you ask a/c on final if he heard you say you were on final he says" yea but Im in a helicopter."
Gee would it have broken his heart to say that initially?

Whether it is law or not where you are currently operating an aircraft, it just seems considerate and appropriate airmanship to use the Aerodome at the front and back of transmission and your type.

Jan Olieslagers
8th Jan 2011, 17:43
Excuse me for playing the devil's advocate... but can we try and look at the whole thing the other way around?

At non-controlled airfields, one is in non-controlled airspace. In non-controlled airspace, there is no obligation to carry a radio. Even if one happens to be carried, there is no obligation to actually use it, or even to switch it on. This implies we should always be on the lookout for traffic, because there can always be a NORDO flier around. Whatever IS being said on the radio is a bonus, for which we have to be grateful. If it is complete, and clear, and makes sense, even more gratitude.

SNS3Guppy
8th Jan 2011, 17:46
If you feel so strongly, why don't you write to the CAA and tell them where they got it wrong?

The CAA didn't get it wrong.

You did.

Failing to understand that communication is about clearly transmitting your intents, and understanding from others their intents, you've missed the point of communicating.

If you conform strictly and without intelligent thought to the words you find in CAP 413, disregarding the information which has already been given, you're acting in rote and you're not really communicating. If you're broadcasting your position in a radio call, but others don't know where you are, what have you accomplished? Nothing, except jamming up the radio frequency. If you're broadcasting and someone thinks you're a different aircraft, sees two aircraft on the downwind and thinks you're the helicopter when you're the cessna, or thinks you're the cessna when you're the learjet, clear communication has failed and danger and risk are increased.

Sputtering "but, but, but that's what the CAP 413 told me to do" is useless with a state of failed communication. You seem to revel in ignorance with regard to this subject. Let's repeat it again, then: communication is about communicating. Communication has failed if everyone doesn't get the message and the information, and interpret it correctly. If another listener believes you're at another airfield and plans accordingly, then you've caused confusion. By simply stating the airfield name at the beginning and end of your radio call, you can greatly enhance the communication, and NOTHING in the CAP 413 manual, or the Safetycom Review Final suggests in any way, shape, or form that this should not take place.

Nothing in the CAP 413 manual suggests in any way, shape, or form that one should not cite one's aircraft type when giving one's callsign. In fact, both publications encourage it.

Both publications absolutely insist on citing the aircraft location; it's mandatory on every call. Nothing at all is stopping you from citing it at the end of each transmission, either. Do so subject to radio frequency congestion, as the guidelines you're provided in CAP 413 state to do so when no confusion will exist. If you're stepping on other people, then slow down, reduce the verbiage, and proceed normally. It takes very little time, breath, or effort, however, to include your aircraft type in your transmission, and to end your transmission with the location. Very simple, very approved, and not in the least contrary to regulation, guideline, or the final review summary report for the Safetycom system. In other words, citing your location at the beginning and end, and your aircraft type is approved, accepted, common, wise, and good communications. It's also encouraged. Think about it.

Rather than simply saying "Cessna ABCD," one might consider saying "Skyhawk ABCD," because a Cessna could be anything from a Cessna 120 to a Cessna Citation.

Joao da Silva
8th Jan 2011, 18:34
Guppy

You just don't get it, at all. How many hours have you flown in GA VFR in the UK, as opposed to IFR?

There is a very clear method of using the radio and it works very well, just as Captain Carlsson's approach works very well in the USA.

Writing longer and longer posts still does not make you right

Sometimes it is best to stop digging the hole.

I have to say, as a non UK contributor, that I find the Brits adapt much better than you and your countrymen to taking on board how things work locally.

SNS3Guppy
8th Jan 2011, 19:41
There is a very clear method of using the radio and it works very well, just as Captain Carlsson's approach works very well in the USA.

I have no idea who Captain Carlsson is or where he flies in the USA, but I do know, and have shown that the "very clear method of using the radio" in the UK includes radio calls with the name of the field, and the use of the aircraft type in the callsign. Moreover, unlike others, I actually used references, and links.

Writing longer and longer posts still does not make you right

No. Being right makes me right.

Having already given the links, citations, references, and quotes, it's not really a matter to debate.

There is NOTHING in the Safetycom system which directs the individual to not use the aircraft type and location. There is a clear requirement to use the airport location. There is a strong suggestion to use the aircraft type. This has already been spelled out for you. If you have trouble with the English language, comprehension, or reading skills, you may have missed it.

Then again, you may have missed the fact that there's no requirement to make the radio call in the first place. Accordingly, once having made the call, including pertinent details which enhance good communication, including the airport location (required when making the call, as already proven), and the aircraft type (very much encouraged), is wise, good form, and very appropriate.

I once flew with a dingbat who made position calls along with lines of "Bermuda Dunes Traffic, Cessna is landing." When I asked him where he'd learned such ridiculous position calls, he told me everyone in the area where he learned to fly does the same thing. I asked him if he thought perhaps citing the aircraft type, position in the pattern or relative to the airport, and concluding the call with the airport reference, might not be a good idea. He said no, because everyone did the same thing where he was from, and that was good enough.

You have no need to celebrate ignorance. You might try learning something, if you're able. The life you save...might just be mine.

You're on your own.

I have to say, as a non UK contributor, that I find the Brits adapt much better than you and your countrymen to taking on board how things work locally.

I don't know about that. I operate locally all over the planet. Local to you is local to me, but local to me is also all of Europe, all of Asia, all of the Middle East, all of Africa, Asia, the Pacific, and North and South America. I suppose it's relative, but having to conform "locally" and working "locally" is part of my job. It's just that I have a few more "locally's" than you.

Again, it seems that the UK is special...just like the special carb ice and mixture use that only happens in the UK. Everyone likes to think their little universe is special, and that nobody really understands them. "You just don't get it," they say. Ignorance is bliss. You live in bliss.

You need to get out more.

patowalker
8th Jan 2011, 23:41
Is anybody reminded of Pooh Bah?

Joao da Silva
9th Jan 2011, 09:07
Yes, with a strong blend of 'shout louder so the wop understands.' ;)

Ten to one he has never flown VFR in the UK and probably practices fencing in the cruise - 'en garde.'

I am somewhat surprised that SNS3 Guppy hasn't heard of Captain Carlson, for the benefit of anyone who is going to fly in the USA for the first time, he wrote a book that explains the way comms work across there Amazon.com: Captain Carlson's Airplane Talk: The Complete Book of Vfr and Ifr Communications (9780961195403): Glenn Carlson: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Captain-Carlsons-Airplane-Talk-Communications/dp/0961195401)

When I first flew in the USA, my instructor sent me a copy beforehand and I found it very useful in learning a VFR system that was rather different to my normal experience, but which works very well once you understand it.