What is happening about the Qantas A380 at Singapore

[herkman]

Does anyone understand the repair program for this airplane.

Is particularly the mainplane repair or replacement likely to be a big job and can it be done at Singapore.

If the airframe is to be returned to France how will they get it there and how long before it is back in service

[Skytrucker]

Probably for the Gas Axe from what has been mentioned in the last couple of weeks.

[clevlandHD]

Tiger, (the beer company, not the airline) is about to make a bid for it. They just have to confirm how much alu is actualy in there.

[SKS777FLYER]

No clue about the repair program for the beast; but a repair bill of near US$70 million has been published
Qantas A380 repair bill to cost US$70m | Australian Aviation Magazine (http://australianaviation.com.au/2010/11/qantas-a380-repair-bill-to-cost-us70m/)

[bearfoil]

One thinks two powerplants will need to be replaced with new. Brown goo in an engine producing power most likely utterly destroyed #1's internals. That's 40 million plus, prior to entertaining a new wing. Even if possible to repair, one also thinks the damaged wing will not be retained. That's another 30 million, and then add up the damage done to Fuselage, Empennage, etc. Not unusual for an insuror to underestimate, it too has stockholders, and RR may face some counter claim by this firm. The lack of disclosure to the players 'softens' AON's indemnity, this will take a very long time to sort, IMO

[glad rag]

If the airframe is to be returned to France how will they get it there and how long before it is back in service

It's not inconceivable that it could be stripped right out and taken down into it's original sections and barged back? That's how they move them about pre construction.

Hmm job on boys :E

[twochai]

One thinks two powerplants will need to be replaced with new

I would guess that the $70M repair cost quoted by AON only covers the bare airframe. As the engines were apparently supplied on a power-by-the-hour basis to QF, they're probably sold to a separate leasing company and leased back to RR; insurance coverage could be supplied under a separate contract.

[parabellum]

What the final outcome is may depend on how the various insurable elements of the risk are spread about. It is quite likely that all QANTAS hull insurance is first placed with an Australian underwriter who will retain about 1% and re-insure the rest out, probably a large lump in Lloyd's and the companies in London. Because the Australian retention is likely to be very small underwriting control will go to the leading re-insurance company or syndicate, the total risk will be spread among dozens of underwriters who will have agreed to follow the leaders.

From the hull insurance point of view the underwriters are likely to look at the total cost of repair and getting the aircraft back in the air, if the engineering and logistical cost is less than a new airframe then that is what the underwriters are likely to agree to. The hull insurers may try to recover some of their costs from RR, (actually RRs insurers), and the amount they attempt to recover will depend on the amount RR are held to blame. As some of the underwriters who insure QANTAS hulls are also likely to insure RR the claims behind the scenes could go on for years!

Not sure how the Loss of Use and Loss of Revenue will be dealt with or which policy that will fall under but if it comes under the hull policy then those costs will be included in the engineering and logistical costs.

Some where here on PPRuNe I'm sure there are both claims brokers and underwriters who can give a much more definitive appraisal and a more informed opinion as to how this one will play out. I would not expect write-off to be an option, but if it is I imagine that either QF or SIA will buy the salvage.

[mmciau]

Perhaps if the USN has a Nimitz class aircraft carrier that is due to sail Singapore to France in the forseeable future!!!!!!

Or Mammoet Website > Mammoet Corporate > Asia - Pacific > ASIA-PACIFIC (http://www.mammoet.com/Default.aspx?tabid=222) might get a call to 'barge' it back to France.

[bearfoil]

I have two questions. Why would SIA or Qantas want to purchase salvage? Also, a very important piece is left out, and related to why the carrier would not want the salvage, imo. Insult to Marque. Perhaps not indemnified by any carrier, but a real concern to Qantas, whose losses go well beyond Airframe. Litigable, and ultimately an unknown, but Power by the Hour comes with ghosts. The amount would be decided by Lawyers and MBA's, not to mention phD's in Marketing. This incident has long legs.

[Nepotisim]

It will be fixed in SIN. It probably won't be in the air until mid-late 2011.:ok:

[parabellum]

Probably the salvage of the interior would only be of interest to QF as it is all to their custom fit in the cabin. Other major components would probably come cheap as, once they have sold the salvage, the insurers don't have to worry about disposal so are likely to let it go for the best offer, that is where SQ may take an interest as they have disposal facilities and a major engineering facility to do the dismantling, could be a joint affair. Insult to Marque or not, money is money and it will be a cheap source of spares for someone, if it is totaled, which Nepotism says it won't.

I agree, by the time the litigation is over we will all be several years older!

(Make a lovely cabin crew or fire crew trainer though!!!;))

[Peter47]

I see that a repair bill of UD$70m upwards has been quoted. Looking from the other direction, if the airframe is robbed for spares, what would they be likely be worth? Are we looking at $10 of millions? And as a matter of any ideas as to what proportion of the frame could be recovered by volume and mass?

[bearfoil]

Too bad beer cans are made of aluminium, instead of CRP, wait.............

[Machinbird]

So why wouldn't they, repair some wire bundles, repair some damaged components, bolt on a few new engines, put in some temporary structural repairs in the wing and ferry the thing back to Airbus for full repair?
It isn't like it the airframe is broken in little pieces or burnt up.

It flew into Singapore-why shouldn't it fly out?

I've ferried damaged aircraft-no big deal except you might have some additional flight restrictions/procedures.

[three eighty]

Any updates on the fate of this 380?

[oldchina]

"Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has told media that the Airbus A380 involved in the engine explosion and emergency landing at Singapore last year will return to service with the airline in February or March 2012.

The aircraft has been stranded in Singapore since one of its Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines disintegrated shortly after takeoff from Singapore and its subsequent safe landing on November 4. The uncontained failure severely damaged the aircraft’s left wing spar and numerous wiring harnesses and subsystems.

The aircraft, VH-OQA Nancy Bird Walton is currently being repaired in Singapore by Qantas, Airbus and Singapore Airlines staff. Joyce said the wing spar had been replaced and the aircraft would be taken off jacks in November and conduct a comprehensive flight test campaign before returning to service."

[Slasher]

Seventy million bucks?

If the repair costs are that much why not just turn the bloody
thing into a hangar queen?

[parabellum]

$70mil as opposed to its value, if they were $300mil new, with depreciation over ten years, this one would still be worth $230mil? Still a bit expensive for just training apprentices?;)

[lomapaseo]

Seventy million bucks?

If the repair costs are that much why not just turn the bloody
thing into a hangar queen?


It's an insurrance carrier call and not an airline call.

It get's really dicy on older equipment where the fleet need would just as soon do without, or, spooked customers refuse to ride on a plane that was so unlucky.

Sometimes some interesting salvage operations happen where the plane is deemed a hazard to ships or other planes and it needs to have emergency trimming of the bits in the way using explosive charges or cutting torches rather than undoing those hard to get at bolts :)

[parabellum]

That sounds a lot like a near new B747-400 that rolled off the end of RW13 at Kai Tak, circa 1992ish?

[barit1]

It's an insurrance carrier call and not an airline call.

It get's really dicy on older equipment where the fleet need would just as soon do without, or, spooked customers refuse to ride on a plane that was so unlucky.

More to the point -

It's the cost-to-repair versus the MARKET VALUE of the repaired aircraft. Since older aircraft, especially less desirable/less efficient models, don't command high prices, they are less likely to be repaired, and thus more likely to be salvaged.

(This is illustrated by the antique aircraft marketplace. A recently-pranged local P-40 will certainly be re-restored to better than new, whereas during WWII it would certainly be scrapped. The difference is the PRESENT MARKET VALUE of the ship.)

[Broomstick Flier]

Kai Tak 747-400 was a write-off, well at least if you are thinking on the China Airlines one.

Perhaps you mind the Air France one at Papette or was it Reunion? (assymetric reverse during landing roll, if memory serves me rights)

[glhcarl]

So why wouldn't they, repair some wire bundles, repair some damaged components, bolt on a few new engines, put in some temporary structural repairs in the wing and ferry the thing back to Airbus for full repair?
It isn't like it the airframe is broken in little pieces or burnt up.

The factory in Toulouse is set up to manfacture aircraft not repair them!

When your car is in a accident you don't take back to the factory for repair!

Airbus, like the other OEM's and MRO's have field teams that can handle the repair with parts supplied by the factory.

[Machinbird]

The factory in Toulouse is set up to manfacture aircraft not repair them!

When your car is in a accident you don't take back to the factory for repair!

Airbus, like the other OEM's and MRO's have field teams that can handle the repair with parts supplied by the factory.

My statement of a year ago was intended for those who were recommending making beer cans out of the poor tattered bird. However.....

I believe I've seen photos of airframes being repaired at Toulouse by means of major component replacement.

More than likely, it is the lower cost of labor driving a repair on site. As long as major structure can be properly aligned without using factory jigs, then the repair is possible on site. The engineers who designed the repair components probably spent some long nights making sure their repair concept was practical.
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