7 EK Captains resign at same time?

[Kapitanleutnant]

Heard a rumor a few days ago that no less than 7 EK Captains went into the office all of them together, and put in their resignations simultaneously!

Can anyone confirm this?

K

[411A]

I expect plenty of suitable applications reside in the HR department (via direct entry) to fill the 'void'.
This same scenario occured in SV, in the mid-eighties, when GOSI insurance/retirement benefits were summarily canceled, by Royal Decree.
Overtime ensued, until suitable replacement Commanders (direct entry Commanders, no less) were recruited.
Then, back to normal...83 hours/month.
Those that remained received an extra bonus...and smiled all the way to the bank.
Few misinformed malcontents in the middle east today...don't have a clue.
Sad...but true.
I can only...LOL at their antics/obtuse comments.:p

NB.
Expect 1,000 annual hours to be proposed by the local regulatory authority.
FAA approved for flights to the USA?
Already done.

[Ramrise]

Hi,

Are you still smilin 411A?

[MosEisley]

411A, they probably will approve 1000 hours but without any factoring which is the big bone of contention right now. 1000 hours WITHOUT factoring bring them in line with FAA FTLs. They could also approve 30/7 and 100/month sans factoring and most would be happy.

[411A]

1000 hours WITHOUT factoring bring them in line with FAA FTLs. They could also approve 30/7 and 100/month sans factoring and most would be happy.
Yes, I expect most would, as it's entirely reasonable.
Now, if the airline was to have an incident or accident in the USA, and the FAA took a close look at the factoring applied...they would not be pleased.
Withdrawal of landing rights in the USA would be a distinct possibility.

[fatbus]

FAA was just here and basically they said nothing, they know about the factoring

[Kapitanleutnant]

Banana,

Apparently, they found out about each other resigning around the same time and coordinated the walking into the office all together. That is what was relayed to me.....

K

[Payscale]

Are those the THY guys?

[Craic Ore]

Banana,

Do you really think some skippers here would dread or fear resigning? I mean, honestly, you really think that's the case?

I'd guess they're good guys who just had enough and wanted to make a statement for the rest of us. As you would know (if you work here), there are a LOT of really good guys and gals here and things are getting tougher and $hittier every month that passes. I'd say that if we had a good gig to move on to, well over 50% would move on. I've personally flown with some guys in the last few months that have passed interviews and are one foot out the door. And before any of you guys freak, remember, some of us have wives that can make up the difference of any massive paycut.

Me, I might do what they said above given the choice, but most likely I would walk in, chin high and be the happiest I've been in a long time handing over the letter. In fact, the $hit eating grin might be blinding! :}

Kudos to them and to all that move on.

CO

[GoreTex]

not true at all

[Mister Warning]

Hi Craic,
Happiest day I had in a long time, when I resigned.
Ironically one of my other happiest days was when I got the job 12 years earlier.
Unfortunately in my time at EK it was all downhill. Only the gradient varied. :(
MW.

[Whiskery]

Few misinformed malcontents in the middle east today...don't have a clue.
Sad...but true.

Ah yes.......good old 411A. When at Air Atlanta, you could always be relied upon to take it up the ass and lick fish.

You're the one who doesn't have a clue old mate! Sad........but true.

[Fart Master]

Gore Tex, if you are referring to the resignations, I actually had it confirmed by a guy from recruitment that the resignations did take place.

[GoreTex]

FM,
7 guys that resign, have the same day OFF, highly unlikely, if you would have heard it from HR ok but from a guy who does recruiting? the guys in recruiting are professional liars, just ask the newbies what they were promised by the recruiters.

[Gulf News]

Even if the rumour is true I doubt that it was as high a drama moment as is being portrayed. In a company of 35000+ employees the end of service machine is well lubricated. An email to the fleet manager is all that is required and the whole process kicks into gear. They do not want to know your name,how long you have been with the company or reasons for resigning. They will only want your staff number, you are then sent an exit pack by email which details all of the requirements you have to fulfill before departure.

Some people watch too much television.In an expat company the size of Emirates no one gives a sh*t if you resign. 7 Captains in one month will raise an eyebrow but that is about all. Life will go on as before.

[Murrenfan]

It did happen. 6 to THY, 1 to KAL.

Mfan

[McGreaser]

They do not want to know your name,how long you have been with the company or reasons for resigning. They will only want your staff number, you are then sent an exit pack by email which details all of the requirements you have to fulfill before departure

Some people watch too much television.In an expat company the size of Emirates no one gives a sh*t if you resign
These are the sad facts a lot of the expats in EK have never been able to grasp

Eventually some of their "mates/buddies" forget that these seven even existed in EK and in a few days this thread heads to the gutter on Pprune.......and we back to our "wonderfull" lives like nothing happened.

[jungle drums]

.......

And ignorant people sleep in their beds
Like the doped white mice in the college lab

Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before
And they'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

[Marooned]

7 is a significant number when EK need to recruit and not lose pilots. I have no doubt that the powers that be are deaf and blind to any or all warnings and would need 10 similar groups to do the same before they acknowledge the problem.

The pilots would have left 'officially' for personal reasons, but as we all know it is primarily because of the rot in conditions and subsequent decline in life style. The irony is that any resignations leaves those behind with more to do and the cycle continues. We cannot recruit and train fast enough to keep up with new routes and new aircraft. Any resignations are significant ones and they will find any means to factor us to make up for the loss. The problem is that as the expansion continues they never catch up with the numbers they need and what starts as a temporary measure becomes the norm.

Emirates is facing significant problems. The 'record' profits are being used to sure up the crumbling economy. Much of it is paying for or guaranteeing government debts on completed projects all around Dubai. We can all see the incomplete road projects that have stopped pending payment. 50 sub-contractors for example are owed money on completed works at the airport alone. Some are owed hundreds of millions, one over half a billion, and Emirates, the airline, is being used as a guarantor. If they default another financial earthquake will follow.

Externally they are threatened by increasingly protectionist governments heavily lobbied by their airlines. However you feel about the justification for this it WILL cost EK more.

With restrictions on new routes and more aircraft on the way, with penalties attached if deferred, the future is a turbulent one.

IMO one of, if not, the main problem that will effect not only EK but other airlines will be the availability, or lack thereof, of suitable pilots. The shortage is being felt now. EK is not the airline it once was and is facing increasing competition for new pilots and demand for their existing ones. Other airlines need pilots too, lots of them. Demographically a significant number of pilots are retiring as they reach 65. In the interim there has been no significant training to replace them. Any new training will only fill the RHS. It is the shortage of LHS experience on the exact types we fly and on the routes we operate that are in demand. Boeing have already warned that 20,000 new pilots (and engineers) are required EVERY YEAR to fill current and planned airline requirements.

A few years ago you would only rarely hear of pilots going to Korean, Thai, Turkish, Vietnam etc. Now it is becoming relatively common and with ANA due to enter soon (looking specifically for 777 pilots to fly their 787 on tailored expat terms), more will be looking at their options.

Interesting times ahead.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Marooned....

Spot on old chap!

And with all the subcontractors demanding their backpay.... to those thinking the pilots of EK will be getting 14 plus weeks bonus.... guess again. I've heard any of that monies will be going straight to the city of Dubai to pay everyone they've not payed in months and years now.

A billion dollars net profit last year and they offer 3 weeks bonus??? Double that profit for this year.... maybe 6 weeks at best, not the 14-16 weeks I keep hearing about.

K

[oz in dxb]

For every Captain that leaves, EK will need to recruit 2 more F/Os. One to replace the Captain and one to replace to F/O upgraded just to keep the status quo.
So that's 14 extra pilots on top of what they already need to expand.

Of course it's up to EK if they want to maintain the status quo!

And of course not hiring DECs

Oz

[donpizmeov]

Not sure about that one Oz. The Upgraded FO replaces the captain that left, and the new joiner replaces the FO. Its only when someone upgrades due to fleet expansion you need two. One to fly with him and one to replace him.
Last time they were desperate for crew they announced the May pay rise in the Dec to entice new joiners with gold. Seems to be pretty quite this Dec.

The Don

[777boyindubai]

Whichever way you do the maths, Don, you need two guys (or girls) to keep the status quo. Unless EK bring DEC's.....

[Trader]

If 7 pilots leave you need to hire 7 more....not 14. The upgrades will happen from within the company and then they hire 7 new FO's to replace those upgrading.

It does however take 14 training slots if 7 captains leave. 7 upgrades and 7 new hire courses (unless they hire 7 DEC's)

[donpizmeov]

To right trader. That's what I was trying to say.

The Don

[oz in dxb]

Thanks The Don and Trader for picking up my maths mistake!

It is an expensive procedure taking up valuable sim and instructor time just for one Captain leaving, let alone 7.

Oz

[fatbus]

1 course of 8 out sourced and its covered , double up on 2 upgrade courses all that will mean is more sims at 3am. Line training done by the new LTC's which take very little time to get online. Do you really think EK cares? No, NO and NO.

[Marooned]

FB: They will.

Despite many warnings that the property boom was going to burst and the jewel of the desert was a fake many buried their heads, continued buying and are now broke.

All the signs were there then for Dubai Inc and are now there for EK. EK are going to struggle big time. They can choose to ignore it, which indeed they are, but they are not going avoid some severe weather ahead.

EKs profits pale into insignificance when compared with the country's debt of over $120 billion. This is a burden EK, as one of the only assets Dubai has to offer, has to take on. If you really think that tourism and the import/export business will pay it off (the latter heavily reliant on Iran) then there is no shortage of sand to bury your heads.

[White Knight]

country's debt of over $120 billion.

UAE's debt? Or Dubai's debt? I think you should clarify - bearing in mind the massive sovereign wealth fund that is Abu Dhabi Inc.

[Desert Driver]

411A
Please change your handle to Bitter and Twisted.
Thats all that is in your posts over the last too many years, that I have to skip past your comments.

What is your interest in any of these subjects? Apart from stirring up a reaction.

Oh crap! I think I have just made your day. You sad little man.

[Marooned]

WK: Dubai.

IMF: $109 billion.
Merrill Lynch: $184 billion.
France 24: minimum $100.
FT: $110 billion.

All late 2010 estimates for Dubai's debt, not the UAE.

Dubai World: Originally thought to be $26.5 billion but Reuters estimates that it is nearer $39.9 billion.

As for AUH, any further assistance from them will have assets like EK tied in, if it already hasn't been.

[LHR Rain]

7 pilots a month is not that much. EK has been averaging 6 pilots a month for about 18 months now. The maangers will just look at this month and say the attrition rate was 7 in Dec instead of 6. Not a big deal until we start averaging 20 a month.

[Marooned]

It's still 108 in a year and a half.

It may not appear significant yet but the leak is an indication that dam is damaged.

[vbrules]

I would imagine they will be looking at the cost of replacing those 108 in the past year and a half and offset it by the savings of lost overtime for the 2500 remaining pilots and be quite happy with the result.

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Hiring/recalls (meaning more hiring) is picking up a LOT in the US. Sounds like it is also picking up in Europe?

China is, of course, going more and more completely insane for new pilots. EMB-145 capts are up to $10K/month+++.

More and more pressure on Ek/QR/KAL/Turkish, etc., etc.

cliff
VCP

[fourgolds]

Marooned , check your PM,s
Cheers 4G's

[paokara]

Who gives a f--k if they quit.

You all work for a middle east airline with middle east mentallity.....

60 percent, my guess of all emirates airlines pilots and other airlines out there, eventually will quit....5,10 years whatever.........
americans will go back to the states, europeans will go back to europe, australians and so on.......

waisting your precious life looking for the cash and your years gone by, lets hope not your health, that will lead you to spend all of your money saved, either getting your health back or wishing you had your youth and therefore you will be spending everything with russian prostitutes.......or a young chick will take you for a ride.

and all that is my opinion: hired at emirates dec 2003, declined 2004 class, made less cash the following years but............had , have and will have a great time..........than been around hypocrats in the middle east......

[nolimitholdem]

HAHAHAHAH!

Yes, you certainly sound like a happy person! Bitter much? Where is this magic job and place, so I can apply?

Those damn "hypocrats", "waisting" their time...

[The Dominican]

It is very interesting what is happening lately with jobs opening up, guys are making movements that would be widely considered sideways movements and some movements are just plain backwards!!! It seems that some folks are just looking for different pastures and not necessarily greener!!!! :eek:

[max AB]

a young chick will take you for a ride

Oh I wish.... giddy up!

[donpizmeov]

Think oven mits max. Now they were the days.

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Just heard that LAN in Central/S. America, has massive growth plans next year, and are now already experiencing problems finding enough pilots for their present system. They just bought TAM our of Brasil a few months ago.

cliff
KMIA