Glass cockpit retrofits

[stickandrudderman]

So,
You own a fast but elderly LAA type with an IO360.
You want to rip the steam guage panel out and start again.
You have a budget of around £10000 excluding labour costs.
What would your shopping list look like?

[Peter Fanelli]

Aspen Avionics

[Steve N]

MGL Odyssey or Voyager based setup. You will do it for half of your £10k.

MGL Avionics Odyssey (http://www.mglavionics.co.za/Odyssey.html)

UK sourced prices here:

Parts For Aircraft.co.uk - Front Page - MGL Avionics Stratomaster (http://shop1.actinicexpress.co.uk/shops/partsforaircraft/index.php)

Steve

[Rod1]

I second the MGL option.

Rod1

[IO540]

Do you want real IFR capability?

I realise IFR is illegal for you but that is not the question I am asking ;)

[AN2 Driver]

Can MGL be installed into certified aircraft? From the sites you guys quote, it looks like one of those which are fine for experimental and LSA's?

Aspen's EFIS have EASA STC's for a wide variety of certified aircraft and they also are for IFR. I am looking into one of those once I have paid for my engine overhaul :sad:

[stickandrudderman]

IO540, I like the way you are thinking:ok:.
IFR capability is not essential, but the a/c will be used for long distance touring, especially over the Alps.
Synthetic vision is therefore a very useful backup tool.
An autopilot with altitude pre-select would also be nice.

[IO540]

Speaking purely from the POV of what is desirable for long distance touring, and getting back down again (which, in your case, may involve declaring a mayday ;) ) I would suggest a full 3-servo autopilot (roll, pitch, pitch trim) which is able to track a heading (HDG), or track the GPS track (tracking VORs is not very useful, and if you lost the GPS you would just fly a heading), and hold altitude. Holding a VS is nice but not that important because one can always climb or descend at a given pitch attitude. Ideally it should be able to fly an ILS, but being able to fly an ILS manually is good enough (it is easy enough if you practice a bit on a sim).

An ILS is the ultimate lifesaver and you need to be able to fly it acceptably if you want to fly for real (need to duck after posting this bit, especially after Mr Guppy gets here with his small arms fire :) ). ILS, not SV. If you get into a real pickle, you tell ATC you need to land, you are ILS capable, and they will vector you accordingly, and while vectoring they will take care of your obstacle clearance (except in Spain ;) ). That is the required capability to do it properly. You would not use SV to find a landing site; the data is derived from the Shuttle (SRTM) radar imagery which is pretty good for "mountain avoidance" but accurate to 100-200ft only, and most man-made obstacles will be missing.

I have no idea what autopilots are available for the non certified market but recall seeing some in a US experimental kit catalogue and they were really amazing, and 1/10 of the cost of mine.

I don't think SV is useful for mountain flight in particular because that implies you will be in IMC, and that is not a great idea given the OAT is likely to be below 0C :) But more to the point, one doesn't fly that way; one plans the route for MSA and then executes the plan. And one works hard to remain VMC, but if IMC is encountered then the MSA planning should mean one is safe (icing conditions and convective weather aside...). Nearly all my enroute IFR flight is VMC and once one gets away from that, the equipment requirements get more complicated.

Obviously if you can get SV for next to nothing then go for it but I think a simple TAWS function (like you get in a Garmin 496) is really the major lifesaver in a total loss of situational awareness.

If you want real mountain crossing capability then the best thing is a portable oxygen kit. It is cheap and absolutely brilliant. I never fly (real x/c IFR) without it, and used it to fly VFR (pre-IR) across the Alps and the Pyrenees.

[stickandrudderman]

Excellent advice IO540, thanks.
I fell in love with SV after I listened to a recording of a chap in the states who was high above cloud in a SEP when the donkey quit.
I'd post a link but I can't find it now.

[Rod1]

“Synthetic vision is therefore a very useful backup tool.
An autopilot with altitude pre-select would also be nice.”

The MGL kit will do all that. It will drive the servos direct and gives a very good integrated solution. If you connect it up to the right nav kit it will display an ILS for you, but SV and HITS with the std TAWS is a better bet. The first of the recent SA to UK racers was equipped with MGL and it is used for IFR in some parts of the world, but not Euroland.

If you want to discus the kit off line I would be happy to help. I use it for the same long distance VFR touiring you need it for.

Rod1

[IO540]

I fell in love with SV after I listened to a recording of a chap in the states who was high above cloud in a SEP when the donkey quit.
I'd post a link but I can't find it now.

Yes, I saw that.

Can't argue with it, for that purpose.

[neilcharlton]

i quite like the new flymap stuff
Flymap LD from Pioneer Avionics (http://www.pioneeravionics.co.uk/product.asp?i=144)
not cheap but looks very good !

[stickandrudderman]

Flymap LD does look good but it is a LOT of money and doesn't appear to have some functions that one might take for granted.

[smarthawke]

Have you considered the Dynon SkyView? It's at the start of its development life but already has good things like remote transponder and autopilot control, engine parameter display etc with plenty more to come.

Dynon Avionics - SkyView Intro (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/SkyView_intro.html)

[DBo]

Another vote for Dynon Skyview. I have a D-100 and love it, but the Skyview looks fantastic.

Dave

[stickandrudderman]

Dynon does look good but currently has (AFAIUI) no european mapping data.

[neilcharlton]

the mgl also integrates with pocket fms routes and maps.
so plan on pc then upload :-)

it would be great to see something like that with skydemon which is my new favourite planning software.

[smarthawke]

Dynon are bringing out upgrades (ie new features) all the time for the SkyView. If they're good to their word (and they seem to be so far) then European mapping and nav stuff plus more should all appear in January 2011.

They are certainly very good on the technical support - they've answered my emails instantly and there's a lot of good info on their forum. My intention is for a dual SkyView system in my RV-12.

[funfly]

WHY would you want to do this anyway? better surely to ADD a really good GPS unit maybe coupled to an autopilot system. Plus, I would suggest, an engine monitoring system.

[stickandrudderman]

Because the aircraft needs to go on a diet, plus: because I want to.

[stickandrudderman]

What would you say if you were offered a nice but expensive system that was unable to track VORs?

[cessnapete]

Go for it. Nobody needs to track a 'standalone' VOR anymore!
In the last 10 years or more of all types of aviation, the only time I've used a VOR set is a couple of VOR approaches, and in the Sim on Six monthly Checks. In a modern setup the VOR radial would only be displayed, while the FMS/GPS flies the letdown.
The airline standard is now GPS/IRS/FMS.

For GA a good database GPS system which has all VORs NDBs etc in the data. ( Not handheld set) is the best option.
You can use the VOR position in the GPS data to track a radial.

[IO540]

GPS/IRS/FMS

However, airline FMSs can use both GPS and DME/DME for fix-ups. But there is no GA product which can use DME for navigation. Anyway, a DME is an expensive bit of kit to install in a plane and I don't suppose the OP will be doing that.

Nobody needs to track a 'standalone' VOR anymore!

Unless the GPS packs up.

Unltimately this depends on your view of "backups" and how far you want to push your "VFR" ;)

For a "VFR" aircraft, which is not going to be flying an IAP overtly except in an emergency, I would have a VOR receiver and a CDI indicator. This is cheap to do (pick up a KX155A radio on US Ebay) and will give you enroute navigation in case of loss of GPS, which is very rare but can happen (I have lost GPS for a few mins off Italy in 2004 and then some more from Italy flying N over the Alps in 2006) and anyway your GPS unit (if you have only one) might pack up.

For proper VOR based nav, you do also want a DME... but that is more weight and money. Fortunately, you don't strictly need a DME for an ILS, for emergencies.

[stickandrudderman]

We already have SL30 and GTX300 and so would like to be able to incorporate the functionality, hence the doubt we're having over the very nice but incompatible kit.
We'd also like to build in some future proofing in case IFR becomes a possibility.