Glass cockpit retrofits
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sth Bucks UK
Age: 60
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glass cockpit retrofits
So,
You own a fast but elderly LAA type with an IO360.
You want to rip the steam guage panel out and start again.
You have a budget of around £10000 excluding labour costs.
What would your shopping list look like?
You own a fast but elderly LAA type with an IO360.
You want to rip the steam guage panel out and start again.
You have a budget of around £10000 excluding labour costs.
What would your shopping list look like?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bristol'ish
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MGL Odyssey or Voyager based setup. You will do it for half of your £10k.
MGL Avionics Odyssey
UK sourced prices here:
Parts For Aircraft.co.uk - Front Page - MGL Avionics Stratomaster
Steve
MGL Avionics Odyssey
UK sourced prices here:
Parts For Aircraft.co.uk - Front Page - MGL Avionics Stratomaster
Steve
Can MGL be installed into certified aircraft? From the sites you guys quote, it looks like one of those which are fine for experimental and LSA's?
Aspen's EFIS have EASA STC's for a wide variety of certified aircraft and they also are for IFR. I am looking into one of those once I have paid for my engine overhaul
Aspen's EFIS have EASA STC's for a wide variety of certified aircraft and they also are for IFR. I am looking into one of those once I have paid for my engine overhaul
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sth Bucks UK
Age: 60
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IO540, I like the way you are thinking
.
IFR capability is not essential, but the a/c will be used for long distance touring, especially over the Alps.
Synthetic vision is therefore a very useful backup tool.
An autopilot with altitude pre-select would also be nice.
.IFR capability is not essential, but the a/c will be used for long distance touring, especially over the Alps.
Synthetic vision is therefore a very useful backup tool.
An autopilot with altitude pre-select would also be nice.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking purely from the POV of what is desirable for long distance touring, and getting back down again (which, in your case, may involve declaring a mayday 
) I would suggest a full 3-servo autopilot (roll, pitch, pitch trim) which is able to track a heading (HDG), or track the GPS track (tracking VORs is not very useful, and if you lost the GPS you would just fly a heading), and hold altitude. Holding a VS is nice but not that important because one can always climb or descend at a given pitch attitude. Ideally it should be able to fly an ILS, but being able to fly an ILS manually is good enough (it is easy enough if you practice a bit on a sim).
An ILS is the ultimate lifesaver and you need to be able to fly it acceptably if you want to fly for real (need to duck after posting this bit, especially after Mr Guppy gets here with his small arms fire
). ILS, not SV. If you get into a real pickle, you tell ATC you need to land, you are ILS capable, and they will vector you accordingly, and while vectoring they will take care of your obstacle clearance (except in Spain ). That is the required capability to do it properly. You would not use SV to find a landing site; the data is derived from the Shuttle (SRTM) radar imagery which is pretty good for "mountain avoidance" but accurate to 100-200ft only, and most man-made obstacles will be missing.
I have no idea what autopilots are available for the non certified market but recall seeing some in a US experimental kit catalogue and they were really amazing, and 1/10 of the cost of mine.
I don't think SV is useful for mountain flight in particular because that implies you will be in IMC, and that is not a great idea given the OAT is likely to be below 0C But more to the point, one doesn't fly that way; one plans the route for MSA and then executes the plan. And one works hard to remain VMC, but if IMC is encountered then the MSA planning should mean one is safe (icing conditions and convective weather aside...). Nearly all my enroute IFR flight is VMC and once one gets away from that, the equipment requirements get more complicated.
Obviously if you can get SV for next to nothing then go for it but I think a simple TAWS function (like you get in a Garmin 496) is really the major lifesaver in a total loss of situational awareness.
If you want real mountain crossing capability then the best thing is a portable oxygen kit. It is cheap and absolutely brilliant. I never fly (real x/c IFR) without it, and used it to fly VFR (pre-IR) across the Alps and the Pyrenees.
) I would suggest a full 3-servo autopilot (roll, pitch, pitch trim) which is able to track a heading (HDG), or track the GPS track (tracking VORs is not very useful, and if you lost the GPS you would just fly a heading), and hold altitude. Holding a VS is nice but not that important because one can always climb or descend at a given pitch attitude. Ideally it should be able to fly an ILS, but being able to fly an ILS manually is good enough (it is easy enough if you practice a bit on a sim).An ILS is the ultimate lifesaver and you need to be able to fly it acceptably if you want to fly for real (need to duck after posting this bit, especially after Mr Guppy gets here with his small arms fire
). ILS, not SV. If you get into a real pickle, you tell ATC you need to land, you are ILS capable, and they will vector you accordingly, and while vectoring they will take care of your obstacle clearance (except in Spain ). That is the required capability to do it properly. You would not use SV to find a landing site; the data is derived from the Shuttle (SRTM) radar imagery which is pretty good for "mountain avoidance" but accurate to 100-200ft only, and most man-made obstacles will be missing.I have no idea what autopilots are available for the non certified market but recall seeing some in a US experimental kit catalogue and they were really amazing, and 1/10 of the cost of mine.
I don't think SV is useful for mountain flight in particular because that implies you will be in IMC, and that is not a great idea given the OAT is likely to be below 0C
But more to the point, one doesn't fly that way; one plans the route for MSA and then executes the plan. And one works hard to remain VMC, but if IMC is encountered then the MSA planning should mean one is safe (icing conditions and convective weather aside...). Nearly all my enroute IFR flight is VMC and once one gets away from that, the equipment requirements get more complicated.Obviously if you can get SV for next to nothing then go for it but I think a simple TAWS function (like you get in a Garmin 496) is really the major lifesaver in a total loss of situational awareness.
If you want real mountain crossing capability then the best thing is a portable oxygen kit. It is cheap and absolutely brilliant. I never fly (real x/c IFR) without it, and used it to fly VFR (pre-IR) across the Alps and the Pyrenees.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sth Bucks UK
Age: 60
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excellent advice IO540, thanks.
I fell in love with SV after I listened to a recording of a chap in the states who was high above cloud in a SEP when the donkey quit.
I'd post a link but I can't find it now.
I fell in love with SV after I listened to a recording of a chap in the states who was high above cloud in a SEP when the donkey quit.
I'd post a link but I can't find it now.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“Synthetic vision is therefore a very useful backup tool.
An autopilot with altitude pre-select would also be nice.”
The MGL kit will do all that. It will drive the servos direct and gives a very good integrated solution. If you connect it up to the right nav kit it will display an ILS for you, but SV and HITS with the std TAWS is a better bet. The first of the recent SA to UK racers was equipped with MGL and it is used for IFR in some parts of the world, but not Euroland.
If you want to discus the kit off line I would be happy to help. I use it for the same long distance VFR touiring you need it for.
Rod1
An autopilot with altitude pre-select would also be nice.”
The MGL kit will do all that. It will drive the servos direct and gives a very good integrated solution. If you connect it up to the right nav kit it will display an ILS for you, but SV and HITS with the std TAWS is a better bet. The first of the recent SA to UK racers was equipped with MGL and it is used for IFR in some parts of the world, but not Euroland.
If you want to discus the kit off line I would be happy to help. I use it for the same long distance VFR touiring you need it for.
Rod1
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fell in love with SV after I listened to a recording of a chap in the states who was high above cloud in a SEP when the donkey quit.
I'd post a link but I can't find it now.
I'd post a link but I can't find it now.
Can't argue with it, for that purpose.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: london
Age: 43
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have you considered the Dynon SkyView? It's at the start of its development life but already has good things like remote transponder and autopilot control, engine parameter display etc with plenty more to come.
Dynon Avionics - SkyView Intro
Dynon Avionics - SkyView Intro
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: london
Age: 43
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the mgl also integrates with pocket fms routes and maps.
so plan on pc then upload :-)
it would be great to see something like that with skydemon which is my new favourite planning software.
so plan on pc then upload :-)
it would be great to see something like that with skydemon which is my new favourite planning software.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dynon are bringing out upgrades (ie new features) all the time for the SkyView. If they're good to their word (and they seem to be so far) then European mapping and nav stuff plus more should all appear in January 2011.
They are certainly very good on the technical support - they've answered my emails instantly and there's a lot of good info on their forum. My intention is for a dual SkyView system in my RV-12.
They are certainly very good on the technical support - they've answered my emails instantly and there's a lot of good info on their forum. My intention is for a dual SkyView system in my RV-12.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 85
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WHY would you want to do this anyway? better surely to ADD a really good GPS unit maybe coupled to an autopilot system. Plus, I would suggest, an engine monitoring system.