First flight with wife and children onboard

[Aussie Andy]

Hi all,

Got my PPL earlier this year. Have accumulated 10+ hours flying since getting the licence - loads of fun! This has included flights in which I have taken my wife's mother and brother on board.

I'm keen to take my wife and two young children up (the girls are seven years old). But my wife has been (understandably) concerned about (perceived) dangers, especially with the kids involved.

We agreed that I'd get at least 10 hours under my belt post-license before I took them all on a short jolly, so date has been set for early December and (weather permitting) we'll make a short flight from Wycombe over to our house (near BNN VOR) and back.

The kids are keen and excited. I think that once my wife has had the chance to experience for herself how tame flying in a Warrior/Dakota can be, then she'll feel better about it and all will be well.

My questions are:

Have others had similar fears from close family members? Any tips for the first flight with family in tow?

All comments / advice will be appreciated.

Andy

[highwingloader]

Just be careful.

I took my two boys up in a helicopter about six years ago and, you know, it just didn't feel right. I know we do it in cars all the time, but taking the kids up felt really funny.

I flew my wife into Las Vegas in a very smart Piper Seminole two years ago and although she was bowled over by the spectacle, she really did not feel comfortable 'in a little plane'.

Basically if the Mrs doesn't like it (or doesn't want to do it), I wouldn't push it. It has to be her decision to go, not yours.

Sorry to be negative but it just isn't something you can force people to do. There is also the point about all your eggs being in one basket. Think about it. I have just read the accident report from the C182 that crashed at St Mawgan in the summer. Dad, mum and the kids on board - dad badly bunrned and subsequently died......... Makes you think.

I say all of this mainly because of your limited experience. I flew my kids after a couple of thousand flying hours and it still felt funny.

Make up your own mind - you're a big boy - but for God's sake be careful.

[Aussie Andy]

Highwingloader:

Thanks - very thought provoking. I will be nervous myself also. I plan to keep the first flight down to a very short one, no more than 20 minutes. If any of us (including me) feel unsure about things, I'll stay in the circuit and just land straight back.

Anyone else?

Andy

[pulse1]

Andy,

While it is perfectly understandable that you want to take your family flying, I can't help feeling that you are pushing it a bit to take them all together for their first flight in a small aircraft. Presumably your wife will sit in front with the girls behind you. If, for example, one or both children become distressed by turbulence which they don't understand, your wife, and therefore you, could become seriously distracted. Having any passenger distressed can be very distracting and when it is your own family it seems a lot worse. I was lucky when one of my boys became airsick, I was grateful to have an instructor with me which helped to keep the pressure off me until I could land. Incidentally, I was only in the circuit at the time.

It might be better to take the girls up with an instructor (or experienced pilot) with you to see how they get on. If they enjoy it, they will want to go again and will encourage your wife to join in.

But don't underestimate the power of motherhood - my wife flew with me before we had children, never when they were young, and, now I'm getting on a bit and she is only too aware of how fallible I am, she only flies happily when there is another pilot present. The thought of being stuck in an aeroplane with an incapacitated pilot terrifies her. Add children and she would probably panic with the first bump. With another pilot, I have flown her through some dodgy weather and, as long as there is some sun or a shop/restaurant at the other end, she is quite happy.

In sailing and flying, once you put wives off, it is very difficult to restore confidence.

[Southern Cross]

Hi AA

My wife flew with me several times in a C310 down to the south west of France. It was usually very enjoyable if the weather was absolutely perfect (this is a rarity by the way -usually it is pretty good most of the way but less than perfect somewhere along the way). But if the weather was less than perfect, at any stage, then she would get quite stressed out and worried.

I came to realise that we were flying together only because I wanted to - she strongly preferred not to. This was mostly because she was concerned that if "something happened to me", (eg fainted / heart attack etc - no history of anything like this by the way, touch wood) she would be unable to save herself. Fair call IMHO. Also, she is a nervous flyer at the best of times including long haul 747 type stuff. The possibility of doing one of those courses that teaches flying basics over 10 hours to non-flying spouses etc, was not welcomed!

Now I fly my 52. She has never seen it...in fact I bought and sold it over the space of 2 1/2 years, bought a 50, and she has not seen either. The thought of her coming for a flight in the 52 was, needless to say, never going to happen, even straight and level.

Good luck with your trip. But make sure your wife is flyng with you for the right reasons...

[pondlife]

Hi Andy, remember me - I sat with you in the Dakota the first time you tried it.

You can pretty much choose your own level of risk in a private aeroplane flight. You can choose to take additional risk by flying over water, or at night, or over terrain which wouldn't be friendly if the engine failed, or you can choose not to. You can choose to fly in bad visibility under a low cloud base, or you can choose not to. I, personally, sometimes choose the additional risk of flying a single at night or over water and will have as a passenger any adult who I consider to be capable of understanding the increased risk if I explain it to them. When I fly with my son, I don't consider him capable of understanding the increased risk and so I have to understand it on his behalf - because of that I won't choose to take any additional risk with him in the plane.
In any flight, there is a small element of risk which is beyond my control, but I wouldn't like to say that this is less or more than the risk of taking my son in the car - which I and most other people do without thinking about. My son only flies with me occasionally, but he's in the car or walking next to a main road regularly, so my own perception is that the increased risk to him of flying is insignificant.

You'll just have to agree with Mrs. Andy that any risk to your children are acceptable, but as far as taking her along too, don't make her go if she doesn't want to - the motivation should come from her. I once made the mistake of encouraging my (now ex) wife to sit in the back of my microlight shortly after I got my licence to fly it. She reluctantly agreed but, immediately after take-off, she got all hysterical and convinced herself that she was going to die. I flew the shortest circuit to land that I could but I wished that I never encouraged her in the first place.

I suggest that if you have any doubts about your children's ability to behave and not distract you with their over-excitedness, that you take someone with you who you know to be comfortable in the aeroplane and you trust to keep the children under control while you concentrate on looking after the flight. Once you know that they are OK you can dispense with that person.
If your wife is nervous then she might not be the best person to do this for the first flight - you might end up looking after the entire family while you fly the plane. Alternatively, having to look after the children might take her mind off being nervous. You know her and I don't so you'll have to decide that one.

[Aussie Andy]

Hi guys,

Wow, well this has really got me thinking. I'm definitely doing it for the "wrong" reasons... i.e. its me that wants them to come flying so I can share my excitement and sense of achievement with them, and because I hope they will also like it enough so that we can all share trips together.

So we're definitely feeding needs, not theirs... I'll sit down and have a long chat with my wife to go over this ground together.

I like the idea of taking the girls up with an instructor... Shame I can't fly any 5-seat types as one of the big fears is that something would happen to the girls without her being present... Maybe I should just send her and the girls up with an instructor and without me.

Andy

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: Aussie Andy ]

[A7E Driver]

Just a quick word of advice on taking up people for the first time when you are relatively low time (or even vey experienced). They will be nervous -- and so will you. Keep the the flight short --- 20 minutes or so is fine for a first encounter. Do not demonstrate steep turns or show that pushing the yoke forward causes a sense of weightlessness --- or pulling back causes g's. Save all that demo stuff for the follow-on flights. Stick to 30 degrees AOB max and very gentle maneuvers to ensure you guest/family has an enjoyable first flight. Sightseeing is the key. (Be sure to bring seat cushions so the kids can see out the window.) Too many guys scare the heck out of guests on first flights by trying to demonstrate the performance envelope of the a/c. They don't want to know that (yet). Congrats. Hope it goes well.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hi Andy,

After I had passed my PPL(H) I decided that I wouldn't take anyone with me until I had 60 hours under my belt, then I took a good friend with me on a roundabout 1.5hr jolly, a few flying hours later I took my eldest boy, just as we achieved transistional flight it hit me like a bolt of lightning, the thought that if I F*$ked up my boy would be along side of me, I have never had a feeling like it, I did eveything by the book, I felt nervous, and actually curtailed the flight, dont ask me to explain it, cos I can't, I talked a lot to others about this but they all put it down to just one of those things, however I think it was the sudden realisation of what would happen if things went bad, I have since taken my boys with me several time's and the feeling has never returned. The only thing I will say, being a dad to five is, be very careful, you are carrying the most precious passengers in the world, make your pre-flight extra careful, check the weather extra careful, and ensure that you land with what you left with, I hope you and they all enjoy the flight!

My Regards

[JP5A]

Never put all your baskets in one egg!!

[Southern Cross]

AA

I wouldn't necessarially agree that your wife and kids fly with someone else - no point in that at all, at least that's what I would think. But if you are going to do the flight, perhaps with your wife only at first, leaving your children in suspense for another day?

Another thing - its funny what we might take for granted that, said wrongly, sounds worrying to a non-pilot. When my (then girlfriend, now wife) flew with me for the first time in a PA28 to Le Touquet from Denham, after takeoff I mentioned that since two sets of eyes are always better than one, if she happended to notice any other aeroplanes in the air, she should let me know. This went down like a cup of cold sick. The implication drawn by my nearest and dearest was that (i) planes could come from anywhere, (ii) they do so often, (iii) there is a material risk of collision and the air is dangerous and (iv) why the h*ll are you not looking out isn't that your damn job and by the way, where are the snacks and the drinks???

SO what started off as (at least in my view) a smart "note to passengers", ended up as a bit of a disaster.

So watch what you say and when, and take extra time to explain why you suggest various things, since a pleasure flight over your house is a pretty bad reason to have a marital bust up!

[Mister Gash]

Did it shortly after gaining my licence. Kids were so utterly bored by the whole thing that they fell asleep after 15 minutes. The only question the wife asked was, after about 20 minutes: “Is there anything in this thing to read?”

She declined my offer of the flight manual so I cut the sortie short, dropped them back at the field, and pi$$ed off on my own for the afternoon. Never again.

Gash

[Whirlybird]

Andy,

I don't have a spouse and kids to take flying, but I've taken other people's and it's exhausting to say the least. Inexperienced passengers tend to be nervous and/or excited, and it's distracting - read the thread on distracting pax on this forum. I wouldn't take more than one passenger at a time till you've got a few more hours under your belt. Everything in flying comes down to spare capacity - you need to know for certain that flying doesn't take up so much of your concentration that you don't have enough left to deal with whatever passengers throw at you in the way of nerves, chat, sickness etc; and be assured they will. I'm not saying don't do it; just maybe not yet.

[Toppers]

Aussie Andy,

As a regular flyer with the wife and kids I can highly recommend it and cannot help feeling that there is an air of OVERcautiousness in this thread.

You admit your level of experience is not that high and that you promised 10 hours P1 before taking the wife and kids. I admire the fact that you clearly thought about it and made your own parameters before taking them up.

Kids of seven years old do not just panic especially if they have been properly briefed on what to expect. Your wife will not be particularly interested in what YOU are doing either.She will enjoy the take-off, the landing and the view. Apart from that she will not be interested or impressed with anything else you are doing to keep the a/c in the sky so you'll have plenty of time to concentrate.

Meanwhile you will be giving your kids the experience of a lifetime. How often do we read in the flying magazines about how we should all take the time to take a child flying. Well if you cant take your own why bother taking someone elses.

A A, you have spent a lot of time and money on your licence, if you want to take them up then bloody well go. Surely the smiles on your girls faces will make the whole licence worthwhile doing.

PS. Don't forget to travel in separate cars to the flying club, it could be dangerous to all go together.

[Aussie Andy]

Toppers:

Thanks for the encouraging note :) The kids will enjoy it, I'm sure - but I am going to make sure my wife is comfortable with the exercise as well.

Whirlybird:
Re- taking plane-full of people, have managed 3 trips to date with 4 people in the plane - on the longest of these (Wycome -> Wolvermpton -> Wycombe) I was the only pilot, so pretty comfortable at this stage with the overall workload.

On that trip, I was surprised at how nervous I felt on the takeoff roll (had never previously felt like that!) but settled down pretty quickly once we were under way. I think it was an overwhelming sense of responsibility (not a bad thing)... this will no doubt be more so when I have my own flesh & blood along for the ride!

BTW, totally impressed with the number and quality of responses toi my question in single afternoon... PPRUNE RULES, OK!

Andy :)

[Keef]

It depends very much on how interested the family is in flying.

I've taken all mine - even mother and mother-in-law, now sadly long-departed. Most of them were either bored stiff or petrified. Mother in law thought it fabulous - we flew over the local area and she was thrilled to see her house and all her friends houses from above. I was amazed at how well she recognised places she'd never seen from that angle.

Daughters won't fly with me - it's too boring. Wife will, gladly, if we're going somewhere interesting. Even then, there's a threshold of pain at about 2½ hours airborne time. She won't wear a headset cos it's claustrophobic.

So - if you feel confident that you can handle it, take them - one at a time - and see how it works out. If they fall asleep, they aren't afraid.

[bcfc]

Hi Aussie

I'm 10+ hrs post PPL myself and have taken all the family now except the kids. My 6yr old is dying to go up but I'm waiting for a nice calm day where I can take my wife too, just in case he freaks out. I don't have any quams (sp?) about taking them as I take as much care as possible even when I'm solo and I feel the car is just as dangerous and I pack 'em in my jallopee (sp, again?) every day.
However, I left out the steep turns over home when I took my mum up the other day and made an early go around when my first approach was a bit high - I decided the landing had to be perfect for the old girl.
What I didn't tell her was that the chap who took the plane after us had to force land and stuff it in a hedge (he was fine). Some things are best left alone.

bcfc

[LAN]

...and on the lighter side :

When I met my girlfriend, she knew I was a pilot, but apart from my never being at home (we have a clock in the kitchen labelled "Pilots' Time" - it runs half speed :D ), she did not pay much attention to my job.

One day, I decided to surprise her, so without her knowing where we were heading, we drove to the airfield. As we went up the driveway, she asked with a big smile "We're going flying?". Her enthusiasm didn't abate when she saw the aircraft - a Bellanca (a true taildragger - very romantic ;) ). She did not seem anxious as we strapped in, the expression on her face changing between expectation and curiousness (for a moment, I thought it might be the look of sheer terror :eek: - but quickly discarded the thought :) )

From the moment we took off, she was taken in by it all. After 10 min. of total silent flight, she said "I thought that what you say about bond between man and machine was bu*lsh*t...you really feel at home doing this, right?" I admitted defiantly. I asked her if she would like to fly. She accepted, and for the next half hour, we trundeled about, rediscovering the art of flight - and every lesson was rewarded with the request for more : "How do you turn?" - "What about the speed thingie?". No offence ment to any former student who might read this, but I have never enjoyed instructing so much as I did then! :D

Before heading home, I asked her if she would like to change perspective and fly inverted. "You know what you're doing?", she asked. I confirmed, and we rolled. Utter silence from the front seat again - then the softest "Oh" I have ever heard over an intercom. And she let go of the frame, letting her arms hang above her head.

Need I say that after this flight, she feels very much at home in all aircraft (inverted or not). I am never short of a co-pilot on my private flights, and she's starting PPL training in the spring...

So, AA, my advice to you is NEVER, under NO CIRCUMSTANCE, to take your missus flying. She might invade your hobby :p


Happy flying to you and all your family,

Ivan the Horrible

[Cusco]

AA

Another slight change of perspective..
8 or 9 years ago number 1 son, courtsey of HMG flying scholarship and a few more hours paid for by doting parents got his PPL aged 17 several months before his driving licence.

Onday less than a month post PPL we all went back to his flying school where after a 2 hour conversion on a Warrior (did his PPL on a C152) and with only 52 horrs said son took me, his 15y.o. sister and Mrs Cusco for a one hour flight in what I (and I wasn't a PPL at this time) felt was pretty marginal weather.

I have to admit to being the one egging him on as had never been in a SEL. He wasn't su sure but he did it.

Result? I got hooked, booked in (to a different flying school nearerto where we lived and got my PPL in five months through the sh*tty winter of 92/93.

My daughter found the whole flight *boring* and slept for most of it.

Oh and Mrs Cusco? : she was scared sh*less by my sons demonstretion of some of the A/c envelope edge characteristics, arrived back on the ground with bleeding palms and has never been in a SEL again.

Which is a great pity as I mostly flo alone or with friends (and children) to some wonderful places including good ole LFAT for lunch and Mrs C misses out.

So send em up with an instructor (without you) on anearly morning or late evening flight on a still winters day when the air is like treacle.

Then when they disembark, observe their body language, don't ask them how they got on but wait for them to speak first. Then you'll know.............


Happy Flying.

[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: Cusco ]

[A and C]

All above is good advice but the drive round the M25 to the airfield holds far more danger than a flight in a light aircraft the only differance is that if you are killed on the motorway your death wont make the papers !.

[Aussie Andy]

Hi all,

I spoke to Mrs. Andy about the flight last night. We discussed my motives, her fears, etc. Ultimately, she's doing it for my sake and because she doesn't think I'll give up asking! But she also wants to see if we all get on OK with it so we can consider a trip together.

She's decided that she prefers that both girls are in the plane with her and with me, not an instructor or another pilot. She's confident (as am I) that the girls will be calm and will enjoy the flight.

She understands that I will be a bit nervous with them on board, and that I will only go ahead if conditions are very good - nay, perfect! (Thanks to Pondlife for his thoughts...)

So with all this discussion behind us, we have agreed that we will go ahead with the flight as four of us together. I feel better now that we have had the discussion, and am confident that she understands the issues properly. I remain confident that the flight will be safe, smooth and well within my limits of experience, and am very much looking forward to seeing how Mrs. Andy and the girls feel after the flight - will let you all know!

Thanks so much for all the extremely useful posts! The more sobering posts at the start of this thread served to make me think twice, and to discuss the issues properly with Mrs. Andy - and I'm very glad I did as some counter to my natural exuberance was needed! Also very much appreciate the more positive posts as well :)


Andy

[Kirstey]

Can I add a bit of extention to this?

I'm still doing my PPL, but naturally when I get my ticket I wanna show off and impress blokes with my new skill!

When I'm flying with people what is the line on letting them control/fly the plane to some extent (bearing in mind I'm not a QFI)

ta

[pulse1]

Andy,

Have a great flight. I hope it's the first of many. Please let us know how it goes.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Before we had children my wife and I used fly reasonably often. She didn't dislike or particularly like it - it just so so to her.

When no. 1 daughter was about 2, we took her up - me in the front and my wife an daughetr in the back (of a 172). Daughter fell asleep!

These days my wife does not like to come flying - motherhood I guess. I've taken both daughters several times and they quite enjoy it. but now they are older, they much prefer horses. I recently took no 1 daughter to do some basic aeros. We started very gently and she was fine, right up to a sequence of contiguous manouvers - no problem. What she didn't like, and what caused us to cut the flight short, was the turbulence; it was a bumpy day with contiuous chop and the occasional big bump.

You need to be aware of likely reactions - as others have said you can't fly the plane and look after 3 panicing passengers. But is this likely?

And the safety aspect has to be kept in proportion. Last Monday morning a neigbour of my mother in law got into his car to go to work just like millions of others. 3 minutes later he was dead - killed by a skip lorry. His death is tragic for his wife and young family, just as much as if he'd been killed in an aeroplane. But to 'the man in the pub', his death is just 'one of those things'. I bet if he'd been killed in a light aircraft the 'man in the pub' would be saying 'silly bu**er. Fancy risking his life like that when he had a young family'.

Perceptions can be odd at times.

SSD

[Who has control?]

A very interesting thread - it certainly made me think. My first flight after getting my PPL was with my wife, over our house. She had flown in small a/c before so she was no stranger to it. We had a few more flights together until one day we went up in the late afternoon. It was hazy and combined with a low sun, the visibility was s**t!! I was happy with the conditions, but she wasn't. Also, as she is 5'2" tall, even with a cushion, she can't see over a Cessna's coaming. So that was our last flight together.



Kirstey - try getting your friends to taxi the thing. Firstly, they will try to steer using the yoke, then they will pump the pedals like a cyclist and you'll weave all over the place. Do your turning checks at this point.
Before you get airborne, ask them if they would like to fly it. If they agree, show them what to do, and let them do a few turns. You hang on to the throttle etc. If they don't, let it be, don't try to force them & don't take your hand off the controls to demonstrate perfect trim!!

[Kirstey]

Don't be silly WHC - I still taxy with the bloody yoke!!!

[Who has control?]

Don't tell anybody Kirstey, but so do I.

So long as you don't try to steer your car with the pedals, you'll be fine.

[FNG]

I feel bound to agree with Toppers that there is an element of over caution in this thread. My wife never enjoys flying in airliners,but has quickly come to love blatting about in puddle jumpers. She thought that she would not like light aviation, but on her first trip took to it with enthusiasm.

Andy, might not your wife be tempted by the opportunities for trips abroad?. Mine tells me that one of the highlights of this year for her was a trip to Burgundy for dinner and a night's stopover made by gas-guzzling Bulldog during the summer.

Nowadays my wife is a reliable traffic spotter, is learning how to help me with nav, frequency changes etc, and is thinking of doing the safety pilot course so that she can land the thing if I succumb to the coronary effects of all my pie eating.

I have developed a sort of patter which I give to passengers new to GA whilst in the car on the way to the airfield. I tell them about such things as the tippy sensations associated with turns (even gentle ones) and about the big changes in engine noise levels associated with different stages of flight. At the airfield, I often let them see me do a mega-thorough pre-flight. I may tell them why I have a checklist, pointing out that pro pilots have them too. I give them the "brace brace" what to do if we are crashing/after we have crashed briefing at the holding point, partly because you're supposed to, and partly because, paradoxical as it may seem, it appears to make them feel more confident, not less.

I would suggest that you try to think of and talk about those aspects of flying in small aircraft which have become or are becoming second nature to you, but which may seem deeply unfamiliar and initially uncomfortable to your passengers. When I converted to taildraggers and first took my wife in one, she thought that we were crashing during the takeoff roll when the nose went down as I brought the tail up. I had forgotten to tell her how it might look and feel, and she was by that time used to trikey takeoffs.

Some passengers seem strangely impressed by RT, which, as you know, is the easiest bit of the whole thing. I'm not suggesting that you should clog the airwaves with blather (after all, you are not a Stapleford or Biggin pilot), but if your trip permits of this, why not check in with, say, London Info, make a blah blah Golf blah blah niner niner roger blah call in your best Concorde Captain on his day off manner, and thereby convince the passenger that you are super pilot, even when lost, out of fuel, and about to fly into a cloud full of rocks and sheep.

Anyway, hope you have a successful trip and can enjoy flying en famille lomng into the future.

[Whirlybird]

Who has control,

I'm 5ft 2(and a half)ins, and I can see to fly a C152 and even a C172 if I have a big enough cushion; a child's car booster seat is the best. Useful for short passengers - though my short passengers have to put up with it as I need the booster seat more than they do!

Kirstey,

Take care with letting passengers take over. I'd happily let mine fly straight and level, and even do turns if they felt confident. Then one day one froze on the controls, only for a few seconds, but that was long enough for the thoughts to come crowding in as I reasoned gently with her - should I hit her; are we high enough above those hills for me to recover after a stall, etc etc. It's unlikely to happen, but you only need one...

I always give passengers an extremely thorough briefing; it gets longer the longer I fly, as you discover people's preconceptions etc. Yes, tell them even airline pilots use checklists, otherwise some of them think you don't know what you're doing. Tell them to let you know if they feel sick, and if they do, putting their hands (gently!) on the yoke and looking out the front as though they were doing the flying will often do the trick. Ask them if they want to know what you're doing and why, or would rather just look out of the window; some of the most unlikely-seeming people want all the details, and vice-versa.

I agree this thread has erred on the side of caution, perhaps over-caution. I love taking people up; I feel greatly privileged to be able to fly, and I want to share it with everyone. But thinks can go wrong. You can put people off flying; that happened with one of my early passengers, who I took up in nasty weather. And worse things can happen too. So telling them a bit too much, having a few extra hours yourself, checking that they really want to go - I don't think a bit of over-caution does any harm really.

[RW-1]

My comments are short.

Yes, overcautious on the thread. Accidents can happen, especially if you are prone to showboating with newfound skills and the presence of friends, family, etc. Please resist that temptation.

Fly as you normally would, checklists, etc. Nothing out of the ordinary, and you should be just fine. Tasking a pax to assist in traffic lookout is great, most I have found will appreciate that they are helping you out, not the thoughts of aircraft all over the place. I've had people hold charts, etc. Tune radios when directed, etc. Getting them involved takes their minds off any slight fear they may have, just listening to the radios they learn that it is a busy environment up there, etc. in short: Fun!

All the people I've taken rotory flying have a good understanding of the risks involved, as for it being your family, well that is a risk you have to face, but I certainly do not stop on that point, flying is something to be enjoyed. If someone wants to go with me, they may, but they have to weigh those risks and make a decision, I do not judge anyone who doesn't wish to go with me.

Whirly, usually I'll hover for a bit, let 'em get used to it, then depart.
If there is any hesitation about not having a door, they get the door :D

[thjakits]

Hi Aussie A.,

if YOU feel comfortable to take your family up, then #1 point is out of the way.
If your family want´s to come too #2 is done.


Rest:

1. Check out a nice trip. Even a short trip is more exciting then 3 trips around the patch (remember they are not aviators, they are sightseers. If any of them get bit by the flying bug, then this is for later not for the first ride with Daddy!)

2. Wait for the perfect day: Maybe not to sunny (less glare and turbulence....)

3. If someone is chickening out, so be it his/her own fault - the other ones will tell him/her what they mist for the next time!

4. Heed Static D.´s advice on the turns: 30 deg Bank is okay, but no more(1.18 g only)AND do the turns smooth, like you do not want them to feel the turns at all!!
If they are into rollercoaster you will find out later and can do that with them later, when you figured out yourself how.
It is like with motorcyles. You can addict them with the first ride or scare them away for life. Your choice....

Do not think to much about what could happen or it might (Nothing mystical here, just "planning" disaters over in your head leads to " no attention" on the flightdeck and this way it might happen.....).

Whenever I have a chance I bring my wife and 18 month son along - over jungle, 10 mile stretches of sea, mountains, etc. I just catch myself being mor careful and watchful with them onboard. (However I got a couple 1000 hours under the belt.)

another one: Watch your airspeed - with the whole gang aboard you might get on the heavy side of the envelope. Maybe you want to practise some max gross landings with your instructor first (five gallon cans with water will weight you down real quick - or a beer keg or two for the party after.....)

If you want to be sure yourself, ask your flight instructor for his honest opinion:
Does he think you are ready for the family-business? Would he let his girl or wife or kid fly with you?
You got your PPL, so you must be able to pass some criteria, but maybe you are NOT YET ready for this.....(ask yourself....)


Last Advice: Join Experimental Aircraft Association-EAA. Under lot of other things they have a program called "Young Eagles" to promote aviation with the kids. They also have guidelines and Minimum requirements for pilots who are willing to do these "Young Eagle"-flights - check them up on www.eaa.org (http://www.eaa.org)

Fly safe and have fun flying with your Gang!

Let us know how it went!!!!!!!

3top :cool:

[Who has control?]

The Weather!! Forgot about the weather!

There's no point in taking passengers in marginal weather, they are up for the ride so you want them to enjoy themselves. However, most people are used to turning up at the airport and boring up through the clag in a jet. So you have to emphasis how weather-dependant light aircraft are, explain that up to 50% of flights get cancelled. Don't feel obliged to take passengers just because you've arrived at the airport. If the weather looks poor on the ground, it will be worse up aloft. (We've all been there, haven't we?). Be honest with your passengers, they will understand, especially if you make it clear that you want them to enjoy themselves.

If you have to cancel at the airport, as a consolation, sit your passengers in the aircraft. Explain all the knobs and taps to them as it prepares them for the time when you can take them flying.

[Capt Claret]

Andy, I'm with Toppers. I took my then wife and our two sons for a flight as soon as I was licenced. Junior was my main worry as at about 18 months of age I wasn't sure how he'd react to the noise.

If memory serves me, mum sat in the back of the PA-28 with junior and number one son, 3 yrs old, sat on a booster cusion in the RHS.

We all enjoyed it, junior fell asleep, and number one has never refused an opportunity to fly with me since.

Re briefings, as someone else mentioned, a good briefing, given confidently, gives confidence to the pax your carrying.

I hope you enjoy the first, and all subsequent flights.

[kfw]

I find it is best to stick them in business class or fist if no non staff pax .

My kids treat the bunk area like a creche if you put the top bunk up and both matresess on the lower bunk they spend ages just bouncing on it .

Their response a while ago was oh no not MRU for xmas again .

But their favourite seems to be the PA 28 no accounting for taste .

Pratt of a reply ( even if true )but wanted to lighten things up a little .

An onside family is almost as good as an on side bank manager .

[Aussie Andy]

In case anyone was wondering - we didn't manage the flight this weekend - both girls have caught my chest infection, so everyone not up for it this time around.

So I went flying with my brother instead! :)Great fun - paid a visit to Oxford and did some photography :)

So hope to take the girls up in January... until then,


Andy

[LowNSlow]

I took my little girl (3 1/2) up in the Auster a while back for a quick circuit. She loved it and kept asking to go flying with me again. She likes flying MS Combat Flight Sim. Loves doing steep turns.
Once clear of LTN, up to 4,000' so she could have a go. Up to this point she looked a bit unhappy but said she was OK.
As soon as I said she could hold the column she brightened up and asked if she could turn. Instant Battle of Britain style wing over and pull through which is exactly what I was expecting her to do. Obviously I was following her on the controls.
As we pulled about 2g in the recovery she wasn't laughing she was cackling. For the next 30 minutes we did steep turns and wingovers so she could feel the g :D

I've taken my older kids flying and the boys were quite enthusiastic and the other girls thought it was OK but not that interesting (the youngest was 7 at the time and they all had other interests by then).

Did have a scary moment in a 172 when 9 year old numpty No.2 son in the back undid his belt and leaned toward the left hand door. I managed to instantly wonder if it really was locked while his big sister yanked him back and gave him a slap. I shudder to think what could have happened as I was in a gentle left turn at the time. :eek: Even sensible kids can ignore the instructions and let their excitement overwhelm them at times.

Having the kids with me always makes me more aware of what can go wrong but I mentally resolve that by putting extra attention into the pre flight planning and ensuring the weather conditions are right and the aeroplane is in tiptop condition.

Good luck with the family day out but be prepared to have to pay for another 2 PPL's if the kids get bitten by the bug...... ;)

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: LowNSlow ]

[dakota_pete]

Flying a Piper Dakota 10 hrs after passing your PPL is good going - Warrior might be better unless you have a fair amount of complex time as if anything goes wrong the less to think about the better. Being based at Wycombe, why fly into all the traffic around BNN, even if your house is there? Suggest you fly into nice open spaces with limited other traffic

[Aussie Andy]

Hi Dakota_Pete,

I have to say I'm more comfortable in the Dakota than the Warrior - I just love its extra oomph :)

I agree re- crowds around BNN, but I'm pretty comfortable with it as I am there often. But I will be sure to wait for perfect wx, esp. viz.

Thanks,


Andy

[jayemm]

My goal on getting my PPL was to fly my daughter (12 yrs old) asap. I took an instructor with me for confidence. She loved it.

My message on this is, if in doubt, like marriage, don't do it. I've done it loads:

Mum (70) - loved it (Blackbushe to Welshpool)
Dad (70) - fell asleep
Wife - only likes it if there's no bumps and a good restaurant at one end
Son (18) - bored by it, but wants to be a pilot (doesn't like the idea of his Dad being in control)
Son (16) - Slept through a blizzard I found myself flying through
Daughter (13) - loved it, especially when I flew her down to Biscarosse (nr. Bordeaux) to join a school trip
Son (5) - loves flying through, round and over the clouds, but hates his ears popping (note: take sucking sweets for young kids)

It's horses for courses; some like flying, some don't. If they're happy to do it and you haven't 'over-persuaded' them, and you're confident, safe, the weather's right and you brief everyone before you take off, then it'll be great for everyone.

[kez]

AA, I'm sure you have had plenty of "pro" and "con" advice here, but just thought I'd share and experience ...
A private flight with 6yr old nephew in a PN68 over SY harbour (and orbits of his house!) in the right seat. He plastered his eyes out the window all the way ... only to say "this engine is still flying" on the landing roll.
An absolute delight to bring such :eek: wonder to a childs eyes.
I did have his father in the back seat of the aircraft, just in case he freaked out .. and although my hrs in the a/c ... well that was my first solo .. the route and procedures were very familiar, so the only "stress" was :-
a) Finding his house! and
b) Landing the PN68 in a decent gusty XW.

'Hope we hear how you went. :)

[BrianG]

Andy,

2 weeks ago I took my wife flying in a c152, about 5 hours post-GFPT. She was, not unexpectedly, anxious as we taxied out. I just did as my instructor told me - keep telling her what you are doing, keep her looking at the scenery and fly smoothly. However, there were a couple of hiccups, and I was suprised at how my wife reacted to them.

Firstly, we were flying at about 3000 ft over Maitland, NSW, and I was doing what my instructor told me - "keep talking and keep her looking at the scenery". The RH door opened - something this particular C152 does from time to time, which I think is caused by pressure of the passenger leaning on it, or more likley when I fly with, my instructor, because we are crammed into the tiny little Cessna). As it is something that has happened whilst flying with my instructor, I wasn't overly concerned, so when my wife said "the door is open" I nonchantly leant over and slammed the door shut. She wasn't at all worried about the door opening.

The second thing, that really worried my wife, was the approach. It was pretty bumpy and there was a fairly stiff crosswind on the shorter and narrower of the 2 runaways at my local field. I gave my wife what I thought was a pretty comprehensive briefing about what I was going to do and what it would feel like. I proceeded to do what was probably the smoothest landing I have ever done (she asked "have we landed?" - brillant but probably not repeatable). She then told me she thought we were going to crash.

I dropped her off and picked up her sister, who is a keen "joyflighter" and would like to learn to fly - that flight went without incident. While I was flying with my sister-in-law, my wife was asking my instructor about the door (of course)and described what I was doing from late downwind to touchdown, which my instructor said was perfectly normal. It turns out her concern was that, from late downwind, I seemed to be doing a lot of things at the same time and she thought that meant things weren't going well, when they were going (suprisingly) well. It was her lack of understanding and her lack of light aircraft experience that caused her concern, not anything I did.

What did I learn. Firstly, take a C172, becuase it has a better door locking mechanism! Secondly, even though your wife's eyes may glaze over as you go into detail about what happens in the circuit, if you tell her exactly what will (or should) happen, she won't be worried when she is in the aircraft. Thirdly, even though you have given her a thorugh briefing on the ground, make sure she understands what you are doing when you are in the air.

Have fun :)

[adivezone03]

Must say myself with only 56 hrs and within the next week about to take the check ride. I feel uneasy taking my wife and daughter up at the same time. Maybe after 100.hrs
good luck and see you in the sky.

[BrianG]

adivezone03,

I have about the same number of hours as you, those hours spread out by fortnightly or monthly lessons & solo flights, although I did have about 2 months off due to the fuel contamination issue that grounded much of the general aviation fleet in Australia a while back. I appreciate your concerns.

I would not have been as comfortable taking my 4 year old son, who is very keen to fly with me but reluctant to actually get into the aircraft, as I was taking my wife. I don't want to frighten my son, who is at the age where he understands the concept of fear, so I will delay taking him up as long as possible, and will just taxi around the aerodrome so he can see what happens and get used to the noise. I have let him sit in a Tiger Moth (nice bright yellow, which he seems to like) and let him play with the stick and see how things move. I also propose to take a video of me flying, so he can watch and get comfortable with the idea of daddy flying. He is pretty cool about it all, and I am quite proud when he tells people I am a pilot rather than my "real" job.

My 8 month old daughter, however, I see as a different issue - I propose to get her used to flying very early, so she is as used to flying as she is travelling in a motor vehicle. I will probably wait for a few months, to allow me to get her used to wearing ear plugs.

Good luck. I hope to see you in the air, but it is a really long (and dangerous, I guess) trip in a C152 or c172 (what I mainly fly, although I do have a whole hour in a Tiger Moth!) from Newcastle Australia to Florida! Hope you pass the check ride.