Cost of landing in Holland

[Slipway]

I am taking a SEP A/C to Holland from UK on a pleasure flight, and have ben quoted up to nearly 200 Euro for all charges in Rotterdam,and similar in Amsterdam. Anyone know another way round this? Landing is cheap its the handling etc. I dont want to go as far North as Texel etc.

[gaxor]

Lelystad Airport - Very GA friendly, and within a short train ride from Amsterdam

Gary

[BackPacker]

Where do you want to go in Holland?

If you're just looking for any ol' EH airfield to have in your logbook, EHMZ is probably the closest to the UK and rather cheap.

If you want to visit Amsterdam, the easiest/cheapest is probably EHLE. EHHV is physically closer to Amsterdam and slightly cheaper but it's got arguably more difficult circuit procedures, is harder to find and is rather short-ish grass with trees at all ends. Plus the public transport journey from EHHV to Amsterdam is more complicated and only marginally shorter than from EHLE.

If you want to visit Rotterdam in a light single, the Vliegclub Rotterdam occasionally does handling too for visiting pilots. That should bring the total cost down from 200 euros to maybe 45 euro or so. (20 landing, 25 handling)

On the other hand - don't rule out Schiphol straight away. Yes, you won't be left with much change of 300 euros after all the bills have been paid, but you get the unique experience of landing at the third (?) largest airport in Europe. You will most likely land at 04/22, so you're normally not physically mixing with the big iron, but the tower frequency for 04/22 also handles most of the other runways. Of which at least one and possibly as much as three are in simultaneous use. It's a great experience. (Do note that Schiphol does not supply Avgas 100LL anymore though.)

[Jan Olieslagers]

To continue on Backpacker's reaction: where exactly do you wish to go? EHMZ still seems expensive from a Belgian point of view, wasn't the landing fee 20 euro's or so? You may find several Belgian aerodromes with at least the same level of service yet less expensive.
I think I can safely say that the Netherlands is not really a friendly place to G/A.
OTOH I wonder what makes you consider such main airports like EHAM and EHRD for a SEP. Main airports are never cheap, nor are they really convenient.

[Slipway]

CHeers GAxor, Backpacker and Jan,

I am going to Rotterdam Centrum. I will look at the Belgian aspect. Have contacted Flying club in R'dam nothing back as yet. Dont want grass either as our A/C doesnt like grass too much especially if its a bit soggy, and being below sea level I guess there is a good chance of that !!!!

[Jan Olieslagers]

If hard runway is a requirement you could look into EHSE Seppe - very close to the motorway, smooth ride to Rotterdam.
Or only a few km further is EBBT Brasschaat, a small club aerodrome. Be warned though against the runway orientation, cross to prevailing winds; plus lots of turbulence with all those woods around. And, at both places, do check availability of customs facilities. Meseemeth there's none in EBBT. Perhaps intermediate stop in LFAC for clearing customs?

[Katamarino]

The desk staff at Rotterdam Flying Club are lovely, and always very helpful, but can be a little unreliable at replying to email. I suggest phoning, rather than emailing, if you really need a reply!

[jkveenstra]

Have a look at the follow site: Airport Directory - VFR Planner (http://www.vfrplanner.nl/index.php?id=8)

[Slipway]

All sorted at a fraction of the cost. RFC very helpful. Thanks to all.

[cessnapete]

Take plenty of funds for fuel!
At Lelystad last month Avgas €2.65 litre

[Otterman]

One good thing: The take off is free!:O

[Kolibear]

Have you got the mandatory ELT fitted? That will add another £1000 to the bill.

[cessnapete]

I have been from UK to Holland and return VFR, twice in last six weeks.
I have a PLB no ELT and no Mode S only Mode C.
No problems from ATC, although I suppose one could be ramp checked.

[NazgulAir]

All sorted at a fraction of the cost. RFC very helpful. Thanks to all.
Good to hear that not everyone is frightened away. Although we have no hangarage and not a lot of parking space, our flying club welcomes the occasional visitor.
It is important to get everything sorted with them so you are expected. Last week an unfortunate visitor from EHHV arrived and I heard this exchange:
ATC: PXX, you are cleared to land.
PH-XXX: Cleared to land, PXX.
ATC: PXX, do you have a handling agent?
PXX: uh, say again?
ATC: Do you have a handling agent?
PXX: handling agent is, ah, [name of aircraft owner]
ATC: PXX, negative, what is your handling agent at Rotterdam Airport? For landing here, you have to appoint a handling agent.
PXX: uh, what handling agents do you have?
(by this time the aircraft was on final)
ATC: PXX, we have Jetcenter and AviaPartners. Which one do you want to use sir?
PXX: uh, I'll take AviaPartners.

PH-XXX never said anything about visiting one of the two flying clubs. ATC never mentioned the exorbitant charges of the handling agents. The poor chap never had a chance; I wonder what his face looked like when he got the bill.

cessnapete, transponder below 1200' can be VFR mode C. As for the ELT, I've never seen a ramp check where the checking person knew what an ELT was, let alone tell the difference between ELT types. You are more likely to get checked for VAT paid, current insurance, etc.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Nazgulair,
If your PH-XXX is not to be envied, couldn't this have been avoided by correctly planning the flight and getting information like O/P Slipway did? I suppose the AIP must make some mention?

[NazgulAir]

The AIP states:
For security reasons Rotterdam Airport is PPR for all general aviation that does not have its homebase on the aerodrome. Permission for visiting aircraft is only granted in case of confirmed handling from KLM Jet Center or Aviapartner (see EHRD AD 2.4 (http://www.ais-netherlands.nl/aim/100422-100603/eAIP/html/eAIP/EH-AD-2.EHRD-en-GB.html#ehrd-ad-2.4) for contact information).So yes, flight preparation could have saved PH-XXX's pilot some grief.

The AIP says nothing about the unwritten rule that guests of the flying clubs are given permission to use the airfield -- provided that they comply with the security measures. This might require some further preparation in itself, because the interplay between the controlling agencies Havendienst (Operations), Kon. Marechaussee (immigration), Douane (Customs) and Airport Security is sometimes confusing. The clubs will be more than happy to help.

Slipway, have a good flight!

[Zulu Alpha]

AVGAS is 2.59 Euros at Midden Zeeland. Thats about £2.16/litre.

Wasn't there some way to get cheaper fuel if you were a training flight or departing from Holland?

[Jan Olieslagers]

So yes, flight preparation could have saved PH-XXX's pilot some grief.But, if I read you correctly, "flight preparation" includes disbelieving one's own national AIP, or at the very least leaving some margin for its being incomplete. Which only confirms my conclusion to avoid NL airspace whenever possible.
Holland certainly is a nice country - but I'm afraid they made their own skies less blue than some others - not least those to the South.

[IO540]

Lelystad had the most expensive avgas I have ever had - this side of LTBH in Turkey :)

Avoiding mandatory handling by taxiing to a maintenance facility or an aeroclub is standard procedure, but you need to arrange it with the said organisation beforehand.

You also need to make sure they do pay the airport on your behalf. There is a certain "business" at Norwich which last time I went there evidently had difficulties in passing over my money to the airport, and the airport eventually chased me for the (much larger) landing fee. Same happens at Bournemouth... but there I was told by the handling agent that I must go via him even if I am visiting somebody.

[Piper19]

The Netherlands being so close in range from my homebase, I only visited Teuge and EHMZ in the years I fly. Way too expensive country for small aircraft. EHMZ is still nice, but that's so close the landing fees are almost equal to the trip costs.
Maybe we are a bit spoiled with so many "no fees" airports in Belgium and France, but mandatory handling for a Cessna is like theft. Altough I think it's going to be the standard for more airfields.

[Privatecaptain]

Have you already been in contact with the Vliegclub Rotterdam? If not, I am a member there, and maybe I can be of any assistance. Send me a Private Message to get in contact with me.

[Slipway]

Trip EGGP to EHRD was great. 2hrs T/O to Land 278 nm !!!! Coasted out nr Ipswich. Rotterdam Flying club very helpful (Thanks Margot). All planning facilities on site. Fuel self service. Would recommend Argus (internet in UK) car hire via Sixt. Note RFC dont accept Mastercard / Visa, but they do accept cash. Landing / Handling /Parking 1 night was a reasonable 44 EU. Thanks to all for help :ok:

[BackPacker]

Slipway, do note that you will get a bill for ATC charges later on, via Eurocontrol. I believe this will be between 6 and 12 euros.

The landing charge you paid is exclusively for Rotterdam Airport, the owner of the tarmac. LVNL (the Dutch NATS) will send you (actually the registered owner/operator of the aircraft) a separate bill for ATC charges, and this will be handled via Eurocontrol.

This has confused people in the past since normally Eurocontrol only charges *en-route charges* for IFR aircraft over two tonnes or something like that. But *terminal charges*, like these ones, do not have a minimum weight limit, nor a distinction between VFR and IFR.

There are a few countries, including the Netherlands, who use the billing system of Eurocontrol to invoice their terminal charges. At other places it's invoiced direct, or part of the landing fee.

If you are not the owner/operator of the aircraft, you might want to give them a heads-up, or they'll be very confused and surprised.

More info here:
EUROCONTROL - Bilateral Agreement relating to Terminal Air Navigation Charges (http://www.eurocontrol.int/crco/public/standard_page/ssa_terminal.html)

[Slipway]

Thanks for that Backpacker. Not seen anything as yet, and I am the only contact on the FP so not sure how they would contact our group owned aircraft otherwise,

[BackPacker]

As far as I know they simply send the bill to the registered owner or operator. That info is most likely supplied by the CAA and would be the same as listed in G-INFO. I'm pretty sure they're not using the info on the FP.

It may take up to six months for that bill to arrive though. We're currently dealing with bills that date back to an event from May 2010.

[Slipway]

Some pics of the Rotterdam trip here.

"Holland 2010" by nmatkinson on jalbum.net (http://jalbum.net/browse/user/album/825322/)

[pistongone]

Did you get a clearance through Manchesters zone? Because 278nm is dct, just routing via WHI then TNT VOR puts a few miles on it. I must say it seems a lot less than i would have expected, west coast of Blighty to Holland. Skydemon puts it at 278 dct. Did you have one or two engines? If one then congrats on taking the dct route, the plane doesn't know its over water:E

[chris-h]

Looks like WHI then direct could be the routing taking him north of Ipswich,
That would avoid manchester.. A GUESS :)

[pistongone]

Yes I agree, but that's more than 278nm, a moot point i know but as i said it seemed less than i would have thought, hence my checking the distance and the figure quoted is a straight line from a-b which isn't really flyable is it? Its a little interesting that route takes you directly overhead a few airfields! Nottingham, Langar D/Z watch out for the gliders at Saltby, Fenland, a knats to the south of Marham, looking for the gliders to your right at Watton, then through a virtual clutch matz of GA fields namely Hethel, Seething and Old Buckingham then through Beccles ATZ just before coasting out! That's a lot of frequencies to have on the plog for the route don't you agree? I hope box 2 was working well! I know the airspace this side of the FIR is free up to FL195, does anyone know what the max level entering the Dutch side limit you too? Just thinking as its almost 100nm of water, so as much alt as poss was my thinking? There are also a lot of rigs out in that direction, would that be a good thing to keep in mind if the donk quits?
PG

[Slipway]

Went WHI then OH Nottingham, then dct to a user wp on nav on the FIR boundary ( >FL 75 to aviod MIL)then dct East to EHRD which needed 3 VRPS inputting to nav.
See the Pic of the MFD in the previous post.

[david viewing]

Just a note of caution about Lelystad; In August I got hit for a whopping 40 Euros in a PA-28 "Because it was on the weekend". And Avgas at 2.88 Euro /Litre. Ouch!