PRAWNS

[Ididntdoit]

Just a quick question, I used to work for NATS but am now providing training overseas, could anyone out there confirm for me the correct meaning of the acronym PRAWNS when used for handover of a position?
Thanks in advance

[Lookatthesky]

Please
Remember
All
Women
Need
Sex

HTH :}

[JayeRipley]

Can't remember PRAWNS but this has been replaced by WEST (at ScAcc certainly)

Weather
Equipment
Situation
Traffic


Feel free to correct if this is wrong!!!! :sad:

[Glamdring]

Pressure
Runway in Use
Airfield
Wx
Nav Aids
Situation

As stated above, it has been replaced by WEST.

[Spitoon]

Around 2000 PRAWNS was slightly different for APC and TMA as below:

For APC

P – Pressure (High – low – min stack)
R – Runways in use
A – Airports (ILS – gaps – freqs)
W – Weather (Vis – avoidance – winds)
N – Non-standard/priority info (Non-standard flights – EATs and holding – navaids – danger areas)
S – Strips to display


For TMA

P – Pressure (High – low – min stack)
R – Runways in use
A – Adjacent sectors (Bandboxed – split – freqs)
W – Weather (Vis – avoidance – winds)
N – Non-standard/priority info (Non-standard flights – EATs and holding – navaids – danger areas)
S – Strips to display

[Ididntdoit]

Thanks for the replies. :)

[2 sheds]

Ididntdoit

If you are implying that you are going to encourage/teach this for handing over, I would ask why encourage a pointless acronym? Surely more to the point to present the information in a logical order (whatever that might be for the individual unit or position) and, indeed, if necessary, use a checklist. NATS drives me mad with their stupid bl00dy acronyms for everything under the sun.

2 s

[ImnotanERIC]

there may be too many acronyms in nats, but prawns is excellent. 90% of the ops room use it in some form or another tc for every single handover. It works very well

[Roffa]

I'm with ERIC on this one.

[Talkdownman]

I'm with 2 sheds on this one.

When I was in TC most ATCOs just joked 'prawns' to each other and then got on with the serious business of a proper, common-sense handover which didn't require yet another acronym. I still don't see 'PRAWNS' in MATS Part 1 so it couldn't have caught on with ATSD. Presumably it remains a nats-only so-called 'best practice'.....

[2 sheds]

It might well work for you. All I am saying is that the sequence of items should be logical for the unit or position, if necessary via a written checklist, and not be driven by acronym-obsession.

2 s

[2 sheds]

Talkdownman

Now don't get me started on "best practice..."!

2 s

[Talkdownman]

What, 2 sheds, you mean millibars after everything, degrees after everything, remain outside controlled airspace after everything...etc etc? I blame(d) the nats LCE's which ATSD lost control of. nats will be filing MATS Part 1 differences next...

[Roffa]

TDM, are you and HD the same NATS retiree? Are you ever seen in the same place at the same time?

:)

[samotnik]

REST - Restrictions, Equipment, Situation, Traffic. ;-)

[jackieofalltrades]

Or one I've heard an assistant use: FATTY
F*** All To Tell You

[ollie_a]

Aus officially uses RAWFONT -

Runways
Airspace
Weather
Facilities
Outstanding matters
NOTAMS
Traffic

Can also be termed FARTNOW...

[BackAndForth]

What, 2 sheds, you mean millibars after everything, degrees after everything, remain outside controlled airspace after everything...etc etc?

Certainly not taught at the college. Only use millibars after QNHs less than 1000 and only use degrees after headings ending in zero. Although it isn't a problem if folk do use them all the time, it certainly isn't encouraged. At least on the Area side, can't speak for Aerodrome/Approach.

[Talkdownman]

it isn't a problem if folk do use them all the time
Of course it is. CAA require these distinctions otherwise they wouldn't be emphasised in CAP413.

Some self-exalted nats LCEs have, in the past, tried to change the rules and impose their own so-called 'best practices' on the shop floor at variance with the CAA ATSD policy and without consultation or agreement. I have witnessed examination candidates being criticised or marked-down by some nats LCEs for not being compliant with their own wishes, personal opinion, or nats-only 'best practices' when they have been otherwise CAA compliant. It is uncontained, Big Brother macho-posturing power without authority. Procedures are procedures. 'Best practices' are not procedures.

[2 sheds]

Perhaps RAW PRAWN would be apposite!

2 s

[Papillon83]

At EGHI / Solent...

Pressure,
Runway in Use
Airspace
Weather
Non - Standard
Strips

[Kiltie]

Talkdownman.....hear hear.

From a pilot's perspective, controllers that use degrees after everything, millibars after everything etc. conflicts with publicised rule and gets a lot of my colleagues confused and off down the same path of duplication. Surely this practice goes against the point of trying to minimise transmission times thus freeing up an already busy frequency? "Best Practice" is often thought-up by an individual, spread as gossip, and before we know it has cast the rule book in to historical oblivion.

If there are enough reported safety incidents by not using degrees, millibars etc. after every number then the rules will be changed. Until then, can't we all stick to the rule?

Would anyone in London care to offer a reason why frequencies such as 126.825 are read more often than not as "126.82", ie the old fashioned way? Sorry to single you out but it's the only Centre that still seems to use this practice in my experience.

[Caesartheboogeyman]

can you select the final "5" as a frequency?
or does it fill this final digit automatically if the frequency ends 25 or 75?
Having not been in a cockpit since I was a trainee and at the time only interested in looking out of the window I have no idea what your frequency selection box thingy looks like. I was told that even if we read out the full 8.33 khz frequency, only 25khz spacing could be selected.

That is why I do not bother anyway.

[Fargo Boyle]

When .833 spacing was introduced we (London) were instructed that the full freq. must be read out, it has never been rescinded..

[Arch Stanton]

PRAWNS

Why does it have to spell something. It doesn't have to be easy to remember, it is written on a plaque in front of you.

Memorable acronyms are used by pilots to remember lists when they are not available to see. An acronym which is written down in front of you is completely unnecesary and misses the whole point of an acronym.

It doesn't need to spell anything, it just needs to be a good handover for that particular position which could mean a different list on a different sector.

[2 sheds]

Agree entirely. A symptom of the mental processes of many in NATS nowadays, I'm afraid.

2 s

[Talkdownman]

An acronym which is written down in front of you is completely unnecesary and misses the whole point of an acronym.
Agree entirely.

It doesn't need to spell anything, it just needs to be a good handover for that particular position which could mean a different list on a different sector.
It's called a Checklist. It cannot possibly be universal for use on any sector.

A symptom of the mental processes of many in NATS nowadays
Agree entirely.

[Data Dad]

Fargo Boyle

When .833 spacing was introduced we (London) were instructed that the full freq. must be read out, it has never been rescinded..
Yesterday 23:52

How else are you supposed to differentiate between (for example) 132.010 and 132.015 if you don't read out all 6 digits?

FWIW this was not a NATS specific instruction but a CAA one in accordance with the Eurocontrol plan for 8.33 frequency spacing.

Back to topic........ we tried PRAWNS but it didn't work for us so we switched to WEST - works better and has certainly led to a standardisation of handovers. I can still recall one controller who used to say 'it's a lovely day the traf is.....' That controller is now an SRG Inspector :}

DD

PS: Surely PRAWNS, WEST or whatever are Mneumonics not acronyms?

[Cuddles]

DD

They're a bit of both aren't they?

[zkdli]

any other rules that people don't bother with because they think that they don't need to apply them?:)

[Talkdownman]

acronym (noun)
an abbreviation formed from the initial letters of other words and pronounced as a word


mnemonic (noun)
a device such as a pattern of letters, ideas, or associations which assists in remembering something

To me PRAWNS is an acronym. It never assisted me to remember what it stood for. But the written checklist did...

[Roffa]

I suppose if folk hadn't been having incidents because of stuff being forgotten in handovers there wouldn't have been any need...

[zkdli]

got it in one Roffa:)

[Roffa]

zkdli, I accept that I'm not perfect unlike some of the others here seem to think they are :)

[Arch Stanton]

Roffa

Nobody is disputing that things can get missed on a handover and a checklist is required, but...

...can you tell me why the checklist has to spell anything, and why every sector has to have the same handover?

[Roffa]

I wasn't involved in creating PRAWNS, though I knew the man who was, so have no idea why that particular acronym/mnemonic was used. I suppose PRAWNS is easier to remember than say WNSRAP. Though that may be moot if it's written down in front of you anyway.

I think the point though is that a consistently structured handover is a good idea.

If you have a better suggestion for a particular sector/group... make it known to those who deal with this sort of thing.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I just wondered how we ever coped for 40 years before PRAWNS when "24 for landing; BEAline follws the frog, tricky old wind... got it??" seemed to work?

[Roffa]

The point is it didn't work HD, there were incidents due to incomplete/inadequate handovers. I assume there are less since the introduction of PRAWNS else it would not have stuck.

But anyway, you've been out of it a long time and much has changed in the intervening years. Just consider yourself fortunate to be so and don't worry yourself too much about what happens now.

[On the beach]

"Blues out, buffs in and the gays are in pink, got it, bye" :eek:

Except in VHHH where its "Blues in, buffs out etc" Go figure. :rolleyes:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Roffa... I'm far from worried about these things; just curious. Judging from the PMs I get, people seem to be interested in my views, no matter how out-dated they appear! Level busts, runway incursions, PRAWNS - all unheard of 40 years ago but I'm not denying that problems do occur now... just curious as to why?

[2 sheds]

The point is it didn't work HD, there were incidents due to incomplete/inadequate handovers. I assume there are less (sic) since the introduction of PRAWNS else it would not have stuck.

If there is an potential risk of some essential factor being omitted (as obviously there could be), surely this indicates that it should be done by written checklist, as for example, a runway change or emergency alerting action. I feel that this is particularly important when trying to hand over while actively controlling traffic. My objections to PRAWNS are that a) it sounds/looks silly and amateurish, b) it would be entirely unnecessary if a proper, logical and unit-specific checklist were used, c) has been forced on units by some Neddy in NATS, assuming that one size fits all, and d) is, IMHO, in an illogical order anyway, presumably just to force a damn' silly acronym/mnemonic out of it for the benefit of someone's career advancement.

Surely, the most obvious first item - at an aerodrome - should be runway-in-use, easterly or westerly operations?

2 s

[Roffa]

These things aren't set in solid stone, do what's necessary to get something unit specific for your unit if you feel it necessary. Far more constructive that than just complaining about it here.

Please accept my apology for the apparent poor grammar. I shall, or is it will, try harder. Do feel free to let me know.

HD, level busts or runway incursions may not have been called that 40 years ago but I find it hard to believe they were unheard of. After all it's partly because of such incidents that cockpit developments like SOPs and CRM have come about (and on the ground, PRAWNS).