***NATS*** ATCO Overtime?

[Angels-One-Five]

Is it possible for ATCO's to do over time in addition to their salaried hours? If it is, are all validated ATCO's able to do this is is it only available once you have reached your third year and been placed on the full pay scale?

[Angels-One-Five]

Thanks Yahoo!

Is that available to any Validated controller or just those on the full pay scale? Also, in your experience is over time available in abundance (i.e. do the units require ATCO's to work over time on a regular basis to function) or is it restricted/unusual?

Final question, I assume the amount of OT that any conrtoller is regulated by the CAA/ICAO along with working hours etc etc.

Cheers

[timelapse]

And you can only do 21 per year, plus it has to all fit inside SRATCOH.

[GuruCube]

Just to clarify;

The guys above are correct, however they are referring to 'additional attendances', i.e. working a full shift on a day off. NATS ATCOs can also work standard overtime hours before or after a normal shift, but this is fairly rare in comparison because of the way staffing is covered at most units.

All of the above are subject to the UK CAA SRATCOH regulations.

[Stupendous Man]

Gurucube: There is no "standard overtime" in addition to AAVAs - only AAVAs (part or whole or SOAL).
You cannot do any extra operational hours before or after a shift - that would break scratcoh. You can come in / stay for meetings before / after shifts and be awarded TOIL.

[Hooligan Bill]

Gurucube: There is no "standard overtime" in addition to AAVAs - only AAVAs (part or whole or SOAL).
You cannot do any extra operational hours before or after a shift - that would break scratcoh. You can come in / stay for meetings before / after shifts and be awarded TOIL.

ATCO Additional Voluntary Attendance, Selling of Annual
Leave and Time Off in Lieu Agreement

2.12 Overtime will only be used for extension of shifts or for part-timers (see paragraph 1.3) and not as a substitute for additional attendances.

[veloo maniam]

Yahoo...can you kindly explain band 5 and band 1 centres.
Thanks for the reply.:ok:

[Stupendous Man]

@HooliganBill - I stand corrected. I was under the impression that you couldn't extend your shift due to scratcoh.

[Someone_Else]

@veloo

If you referring to the terming "band 5/band 4" it is to do with the way the salary progression is constructed. There are 5 bandings working from 1 to 5 (that is to say in order to earn the maximum salary in the UK you would have to work at a Band 5 unit).

Yahoo has given some examples of the different units.

[veloo maniam]

Hi Someone_else and Yahoo, thanks for the reply.
:ok:

[Angels-One-Five]

Hi Yahoo,

Did you highlight Stansted as a unit which doesn't have much overtime available? Is this because its a quiet airport or because they operate with a full compliment of atcos? or something else?

[Charlie23]

You seem to be following a trail for info - good questions - what are you researching/writing matey ;)!!!!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Good God - you'll be earning telephone numbers anyway!!

[whitelighter]

Eventually yes, telephone numbers.

But until you hit 3 years service the salary is (understandably) significantly below the full atco rate so overtime would be a suitable way of bridging the gap

[Nimmer]

Just validate first matey boy, its a long road ahead!!!!!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Dead right Nimmer... I can't comprehend anyone coming into ATC with overtime at the forefront of their mind because there is absolutely no guarantee that it may be available. He might get overtime, he might not. It depends wholly on the staffing levels.

[chevvron]

whitelighter: I don't know what stage of your training you are at, but you can't just decide where you're going to be posted if and when you pass the course; there might not be vacancies, you won't even be considered for AAVA's until you validate (12 months?) and even then you'll be in a queue behind all the more senior staff there.

[novation]

CHEVVRON - I'd think there'd be outrage if the fair distribution of aava's was based on who's more senior, don't see what you're getting at?

[chevvron]

Do they roster you for AAVAs then?

[Talkdownman]

From my experience allocation of an AAVA was down to 'being in the right place at the right time'. HR at Drayton claimed they kept a record to go some way to ensure some fairness...

[novation]

Not sure any comparisons with drayton are useful since us ac boys left there in 2002. However CHEVVRON, aava can be rostered indeed. This of course is regular practice at Pc during the implementation of EFD at the moment.

[5milesbaby]

Even going to a unit where AAVA's are possible it doesn't mean that you can be in line to get your fair share - that all depends on what watch and sector you are on (at a centre) as that also can affect the potential.

Totally agree with Nimmer too, get the license in the bag first before you even start thinking about AAVA's/overtime.

[novation]

True enough 5miles, true enough. Not to mention the political implecations of doing aava's. Selling leave anyone?

[chevvron]

At Farnborough, it was used as a 'reward' for the airshow; you could either have a day off in lieu or an AAVA payment (£350). As Farnborough was (and still is) short of staff, you were unlikely to be able to take an odd day in lieu, so most of us took the money.

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

At Farnborough, it was used as a 'reward' for the airshow; you could either have a day off in lieu or an AAVA payment (£350). As Farnborough was (and still is) short of staff, you were unlikely to be able to take an odd day in lieu, so most of us took the money

At some NATS units they are used just to keep the place going on a daily basis! Either because they are short of ATCOs (who isn't?!), or because, despite not being short on paper; the "operational requirement" coupled with the "Working practice" agreements, spreads things so thinly that there is little, if any slack in the system.

[2.5 miles]

Charlie 23 You seem to be following a trail for info - good questions - what are you researching/writing matey !!!!

Could it be that someone is trying to run a comparison between UK ATCO's and other European service providers?

2.5

[250 kts]

whitelighter, you said

Would be a bit of a bummer if it wasn't available. That's all

And it may well not be as the AAVA agreement ceases at the end of 2011.

And it's actually Stansted that you want to go to-not as you spelt it.

So on that note maybe ATC isn't really the right career for you.

[whitelighter]

So I made a typo ( in one post, not the other). One of the perils using an iPhone to post.

Not sure that precludes me from a career as an atco, I guess time will tell.

[250 kts]

So I made a typo ( in one post, not the other). One of the perils using an iPhone to post.

Two actually!

Still think it's the wrong career if you're so bothered about the money already.

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

Quote:
So I made a typo ( in one post, not the other). One of the perils using an iPhone to post.
Two actually!

Still think it's the wrong career if you're so bothered about the money already.

Oh please! Look around your ops room for a moment! Love of the job, the people, no two days the same etc we can all produce that mantra when required but we all know the real reason people wear headsets for a living! The £ are what bring the majority of people into the job; and what makes them stay there!

[The Fat Controller]

The £ are what bring the majority of people into the job; and what makes them stay there!

Maybe true of the majority of ATCOs post 1995 or thereabouts.

I would refute that statement for previous generations of ATCOs.

AAVAs are a necessity for management to keep the operation running at units where staffing is dependant on what happens daily, such as transatlantic track structures.

As long as they are VOLUNTARY they also suit the ATCO population.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the end of this year when the current agreement expires.

[loubylou]

I suspect that the current agreement will be extended, meaning that we earn less for doing an AAVA in real terms than we did when it was first brought in.

Whitelighter - Please don't think you can rely on regular overtime - it just doesn't work like that I'm afraid. Plus it's not pensionable either.

And to the folk who've had a go at you for your spelling - have none of you seen the state of the average school leaver's spelling and puntuation these days??!!!!!!:ugh:

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

Maybe true of the majority of ATCOs post 1995 or thereabouts.

I would refute that statement for previous generations of ATCOs.

How refreshing for the ATCO board... Another "youth of today" type post :ugh:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Fat Controller.. WELL SAID! I would never have considered working overtime and I don't think ATCOs should be required to.

It's a wholly different world now in ATC, so I'm told.

[The Fat Controller]

How refreshing for the ATCO board... Another "youth of today" type post

Just the experience of a lot of us who are continually meeting products of the college who have the ability to do the job but have no interest in aviation generally.

Quite a few will probably never do a fam flight even though some are available.

To those of you that ARE interested, the nice ladies and gentlemen at KLM and BMI Baby are happy to have guests as long as you can provide suitable job-related photo ID, no pre-booking required, but still obviously at the discretion of the crew on the day.

I had jumpseats both ways to/from Amsterdam recently with KLM and it was good to hear that they think very highly of the service they receive in the UK.

[On the beach]

And to the folk who've had a go at you for your spelling - have none of you seen the state of the average school leaver's spelling and puntuation these days??!!!!!!

Yes, we have and it worries us that if you get basic things like that wrong what else are you going to get wrong.

[Brian 48nav]

I'm with you - many of our forebears and colleagues fought tooth and nail to get a decent watch list with plenty of meaningful rest time.I tell my offspring, who tells me that he can do up to three days overtime per month, that he must be off his rocker going to work on a rest day. I like to think that I would never have done that.

[whitelighter]

I think the reason for my question may have been a little misunderstood.

I am not going into this banking on overtime, it would just help in the post validation period before the full payscale kicks in. I agree that ATCOs shouldnt be looking to work every hour possible but if there is a need surely a small amount (probably less than 1 day per month/3 cyles) is resonable?

And since when does asking about salary mean that that is the reason for going into this career? I doubt any of you love it that much you would work for nothing.

I gave up a job with a company had been with for 8 years earning well in excess of what I can hope to earn as an atco for at least the next 6 or 7 years so I assure you )not that I need to) that this is for many reasons, but cash is certainly not one of them.

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

And since when does asking about salary mean that that is the reason for going into this career? I doubt any of you love it that much you would work for nothing.

I gave up a job with a company had been with for 8 years earning well in excess of what I can hope to earn as an atco for at least the next 6 or 7 years so I assure you )not that I need to) that this is for many reasons, but cash is certainly not one of them.

Don't worry about it too much mate; from experience the attitudes displayed on this forum are not representative of the people I have met and work with at units ;)