PPL visa requirements

[ale_login]

Hi all,

I am a foreign graduate student with an F1 visa, valid for the next 3 years, and currently domiciled in NY.
I would love to take a PPL (still have to decide between FAA or JAA), but first I need to understand if I meet all the visa requirements. I found some info on the AOPA website, which sends me to www.uscis.gov (http://www.uscis.gov/) , but nothing helped.
The point is that I still haven't understood if the F1 visa I am currently holding (with a US university as the official sponsor) is enough, or I need something else.

Thanks!
Ale

[ab33t]

You would have to request a change of status

[BackPacker]

I don't think so. Your primary purpose of visiting the US is your university study, so that's what you need a visa for. Which you have.

As long as flight training is a secundary activity, it doesn't require a separate visa, as long as it's not specifically forbidden as part of the F1 visa requirements.

But that's my interpretation. Why don't you ask USCIS about it?

[AnotherPPLwannabe]

Flight Training is considered vocational rather than academic training and as such you will need a M1 visa rather than F.

Also, the visa issue is tied to the sponsoring organisation all of which is in SEVIS.

Not sure if you could hold a F1 and M1 visa at the same - best bet is to speak to the International/Immigration people at your school.

[BackPacker]

So his suggestion of getting a JAA license will not work (assuming there is no JAA flight school in NY near his Uni).

Although I would assume that when the university has an official and published vacation, he would be able to use that vacation to go to another state (FL, most likely) and do flight training.

But I agree that in all respects the primary purpose of the visit to the US (the uni study) has to be maintained as such throughout the process.

[mad_jock]

Why would he need to do a JAR course?

Just do a FAA PPL at a mom and pop school and enjoy his flying it will cost less than going to one of the multiple JAR schools which we all moan about being run by a bunch of xxxxxx. Place your own word of choice instead of xxxxxx.

Then if he decides to go JAR he can swap it at a later date.

[172driver]

I think mad_jock has it right. IF (and I don't profess to be an expert regarding US visas) his visa situation allows for flight training, then he doesn't have to go to any of the 'sausage factory' outfits than can sponsor a visa, but has the luxury and pleasure to learn wherever he wants to, which can be any flight school. Later convert to JAR PPL. Bliss !

[AnotherPPLwannabe]

"JAR schools which we all moan about being run by a bunch of xxxxxx"

" 'sausage factory' outfits"


Excuse my naivety, but why is there so much anti FL JAR flight schools around on these forums.

[mad_jock]

Because over the years there have been numerous issues with them.

Without pointing fingers at individual schools

Poor quality of training
Sharp buisness practises
Not being all together truthfull in advertising
Unpleasant characters involved running them.
Sausage factory production.
Customer service very poor.


To be honest though the unpleasant characters is the main reason for most of the posts. With most of them there are literially hundreds of unsatisfied customers that have a point to be made.

Some folk can have a good experence out there learning and others have a terrible time.

Personally I did the FL PPL thing and its wasn't until I did the commercial and FI stuff I realised how poor the training was. After the FI I realised you couldn't really do a PPL test in a hour. Normally it includes a PFL, a nav leg with a divert before you get to the first turning point. And that divert involved turning right to run up a river and count 2 bridges with the first bridge your half way point. The RT test isn't someone banging on the wall everytime you make a mistake and you just having a go again until you get the call right.

Just to prove that this isn't across the board if you go back far enough there was a school called Brittannia run by 2 lads that never got anything bad said about them on PPrune. Both of them moved on and the school shut which was unfortunate. Everything wasn't perfect by a long shot but everyone was happy and it was a good laugh there; even if the school itself was a bit ruff and ready.

[BackPacker]

With most of them there are literially hundreds of unsatisfied customers that have a point to be made.

Well, I've been active on here ever since I got my PPL at one of those 'sausage factories' and I must have done something wrong, because I haven't seen these 'literially [sic] hundreds of unsatisfied customers' posting on here about the school I went to. Sure, I have seen a few negative comments but IMHO nothing excessive, especially not if you compare it to their volume of business.

Are they all gathered over at the other forum, or some other place that I missed?

Have to admit there's one school that gets a fair share (but not 'literally hundreds') of negative comments, but this one is easily avoided. Don't tar the others with the same brush.

Then if he decides to go JAR he can swap it at a later date.

That is not so trivial as that single sentence seems to suggest. If your intention is to do an FAA PPL and then at a later date use that to acquire a JAA PPL, make sure you do a little research into what's involved beforehand. This thread is not the right place to discuss this, but it's definitely not a straightforward swap.

[mad_jock]

Over the years there have been loads.

They banned the subject of PPL training on wannabies forums because of it.

For quite a few years every other thread was on the subject of FL and issues.

All the schools apart from brittannia have had a good kicking at times. It usually ends up the legal types gets involved and the thread gets pulled.

The converstion to a UK isn't to bad. If he has less than 100 hours PIC time he will have to complete all the exams. If over that just the air law I think. And then a test with a FE and a radio test.

[172driver]

I initially trained at a small school in California (long, long before visa requirements and TSA fingerprinting) and got great service. And no, my PPL checkride certainly wasn't just one hour :eek:

However, I then did some further training on a couple of occasions at some of the proverbial FL 'sausage factories' and the difference was striking. Not trying to slag these outfits off, I achieved what I came for, but you simply have to run the shop differently if you have, say, 200 students rather than 10.

Which brings me back to my post, stating the OP probably has the luxury of being able to train with a small outfit that can provide personalised service.

[BackPacker]

but you simply have to run the shop differently if you have, say, 200 students rather than 10.

And that's probably the main issue. If you go to a 'sausage factory', with its cheap prices and promise of a three-week PPL, you've got to behave like a sausage, and work to fit the mold.

If you expect personalized content, an atmosphere where everybody knows everybody else and were lots of extra-curricular activities take place, don't go to a 'sausage factory'.

The converstion to a UK isn't to bad. If he has less than 100 hours PIC time he will have to complete all the exams. If over that just the air law I think. And then a test with a FE and a radio test.

That's what I meant. Hardly a straight swap. Essentially you need to do everything all over again except the 45 flying hours.

[172driver]

Essentially you need to do everything all over again except the 45 flying hours.

Sorry, BP, you are really exaggerating here, at least not once you've passed the 100 (or 150, not sure now) hours PIC. Before that, perhaps, thereafter it's really no big deal.

[BackPacker]

I doubt whether the OP will be able to acquire 100 hours PIC before he finishes his University study in three years time.

But even with 100+ hours you've got to do three written exams (not just one as you suggested), plus the RT practical and the PPL skills test:
- Air Law (LASORS C1.3)
- Human Performance & Limitations (LASORS C1.3)
- Communications (LASORS B1.4)

So I still maintain that going from an FAA PPL to a JAA PPL is hardly what I would call a straight swap.

[mad_jock]

The guy has got 3 years over there.

The embuggeration factor alone of getting a FAA JAR piggy back would put me off. Never mind waiting months for paper work to wing its way forwards and backwards across the atlantic.

Get a FAA ticket and see what happens. Its not as if it stops him flying a G reg if he wants day VFR. If he then wants to continue on to do CPL etc his FAA ICAO ticket will do he doesn't need to swap it.

With a FAA he will be able to add an instrument ticket to it as well if he likes.

In fact the more I think about it he would be daft to go anywhere near a JAR training establishment and thats not including the fact that most of them are run by knobs.

[172driver]

(not just one as you suggested)

Never said that. Anyway, I'm with mad_jock here, get the FAA ticket, enjoy the flying, and then you can still convert to any other license, JAR or otherwise.

[IO540]

Don't knock US training.

IME, UK training can be pretty crap. I could tell some atrocious stories.

My US training was very thorough.

The rumour (which I cannot personally confirm) is that, currently, the half a dozen or so JAA-PPL-capable schools in Florida are packed with students from the Indian subcontinent and, incidentally in the same way as with UK universities, these people pay and expect to get the papers, no matter how, so the "business incentive" is pretty obvious (same as in UK universities, actually, where standards have plummeted to rock bottom).

That leaves just the one in California, which may be OK.

[ale_login]

Thanks for all the info!!!
I'm surprised that my first post could start such a discussion!

Anyways, since I'm a PhD student and I'm working here, I surely cannot leave to FL for three weeks to take a JAA licence (I just found out that around NY there are no such schools)!!
My VISA lasts for the next 3 years, but what matters is actually the I-20 which lasts even longer (no problems with the duration of stay instead: indefinite). I would be kind of reluctant to change VISA status or similar things, since it could really screw things up badly, especially if I do it without informing my home institution...

Well, I think that at this point, the safest thing is to contact USICS and see what they say! I'll update this thread once I have an answer.

Cheers!
Ale

[mad_jock]

Good luck with the visa and enjoy your flying. There is nothing wrong with FAA training. Go visit a few schools and meet the instructors and see what the planes are like. You might find the university you are linked with will have an attached flight school, I proberly wouldn't use them.

Nice little school with a gatorade machine in the foyer, and some old vietnam vet of an instructor who teaches because he enjoys it and keeps him and his aircraft airborne.

[172driver]

There is nothing wrong with FAA training

Correct. In fact you'll learn more than in Europe (night flying, radio nav).

Other than that, amen to the rest of mad-jock's post above.

Enjoy :ok:

[mad_jock]

I don't know about the RNAV they are usually to a man ****e at using a NDB ;)

[172driver]

Well of course, the NDB is there to listen to some country music - does it have any other functionality ? ;);)

[mad_jock]

Aye it can get you below MSA to land if needs must.

Also a few CP's outside europe give NDB approaches in the sim if they don't want FAA pilots.

[IO540]

Yes....

I have no issue with NDB approaches, because they provide an "official" way to get down, and obviously one flies them with the GPS (in the OBS mode), merely checking the ADF (RMI in my case) at the top of the descent.

[mad_jock]

Must admit I am flying in an area where they don't have them.

I really miss them, maybe not for doing approaches but more for SA while getting vectored about the placed.

[172driver]

Must admit I am flying in an area where they don't have them.

Same true for large parts of the US - unless you count the radio stations ;) And even there I'm not sure how long they'll be on the air in the age of satellite & internet radio.