View Full Version : Overgrown and sad Lake Buccaneer at Elstree.
AdamFrisch
2nd Jun 2010, 19:17
First time landing at Elstree today and I couldn't help noticing the sad state of the Canadian Lake LA-4-180 (or 200) Buccaneer at the edge of the field. I'm a huge Buccaneer fan and immediately got overwhelmed with motherly feelings for it.
What's its story? How long has it been there? Why has it been there so long? Who owns it? Is it for sale?
That'll be C-FQIP.
Pristine condition in the mid-90s, now appears to be left to rot.
S78
AdamFrisch
2nd Jun 2010, 20:53
It's registered to a Philip Molloy in Calgary, but the mail sent out by the Canadian CAA has been returned as undelivered and the last annual is from the year 2000.
Does anybody have any other info?
Somebody at Elstree did try and find out but ran into a dead end. Thats the last I can remember
stickandrudderman
2nd Jun 2010, 22:56
Shame it's not like a car where you can just write to the DVLA and ask for a reg. doc. They'll write to the reg keeper and if they get no response they'll send you a V5 in your name!!
Pilot DAR
3rd Jun 2010, 01:09
I'm fairly sure this is the first Lake I ever flew, back in about 1988. One of my clients is the national expert on Lake Amphibians. I will ask him what he knows about this particular plane. There are few he does not know!
Lakes are a fantasic plane to fly, with a lot of hidden qualities. They do, however require competent type training, and in particularly for those who have started as float plane pilots. They are safe and easy to fly, but handle quite differently than floatplanes, on the water. They do not dock as nicely as a floatplane though....
AdamFrisch
3rd Jun 2010, 08:08
Please do.
It breaks my heart to see a Lake in this state. Below is a link to photographs of her decline. Compare to the bottom picture where she's in top nick.
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=C-FQIP)
They used to have a couple of these in the Lake Como Flying Club in Italy in the 90s.
I watched then for a couple of days flying past our Hotel room window (further up Lake Como-couldn't really miss them they were hellish noisy) until I finally cracked and wandered down to the Club to book a ride.
Sadly the day I went they were both tech but I got a ride up the lake in the club's float equipped C172 I-SAAB.
Wonderful experience except the base /final legs over the town with absolutely nowhere to go if the donk stopped....
Ah memories.
Cusco
trevs99uk
3rd Jun 2010, 11:09
I remember this LAKE, As it was subject to an article in the local paper with photos.
Can,t remember the exact details but was something along these lines.
The lake was landed on the sea by Southend Seafront and then proceeded to be park up on the beach. On departure it apparently just went from where it was parked, just missing swimmers and small boats.
The local council and the Thames Port Authority got involved.
They found the pilot to have infringed a few rules, so they reported the pilot to the CAA.
The CAA found the pilot to have several licensing issues and the aircraft laking valid / current paperwork. And therefore the pilot was taken to court and received a heavy fine.
So looks like he gave up and left the plane to rot.
rgds trevor
treadigraph
3rd Jun 2010, 11:39
Sadly the day I went they were both tech
There was a Lake offering joy rides at Gibraltar when I was there in 1996, enquired about going for flight and it was undergoing maintenance... blast!
It has for a long time been a sorry landmark at Elstree. It would be lovely to think that someone would restore her to her former glory!!
Surely the management at Elstree must know the score?? If for no other reason than they are probably owed a number of years of parking charges.
Secondly the aircraft is still an aircraft and I am sure the management would insist on at least ground cover insurance.
Maybe the aircraft owes more than she is worth? If something is abandoned for years surely there must come a time legally where an owner looses the right to ownership especially if the aircraft is classified as trespassing and the owner has made no effort to claim it ?
Anyone have a clue to the above points?
Pace
Pilot DAR
3rd Jun 2010, 14:10
I enquired of my associate, this particualar LA 4 is not known to him. He did say that if the aircraft has been abandoned, and has incurred a debt (tiedown charges?) it perhaps could be seized, and sold to recover costs. I have no idea of the process, but maybe a motivated buyer can set it in motion!
Caution though, LA-4's are great planes, but have very specialized maintenance, training and INSURANCE considerations...
Elstree could sell the aircraft if the parking is not being paid. Their terms and conditions will have some period within them after which a lien on an aircraft could be enacted.
It takes a coupe of registered letters with specific notice periods and then they could auction it - or possibly sell it by private treaty - if they can prove they have achieved the best price.
The big question is why you would want to buy it. A lycoming engine left for how many years - full rebuild necessary? An airframe used in salt water and then left? An airframe which is essentially full of hydraulics and a UK GA maintenance regime which is a licence for extortion.
Buying a certified aircraft for restoration is a huge gamble. If you could find a maintenance company that knew their way around Lakes (whilst there are a couple of Lakes registered in the UK, the one guy I knew who had one hated all the maintenance organisations he visited with a vengence due to their ignorance......).
On the other hand there are a couple fo sale in flying condition in Europe - what is the sensible thing to do?
Re-arrange the following words to give a well known phrase or saying:
It- bargepole - touch - don't -a- with.
Cusco
ChrisVJ
4th Jun 2010, 06:54
There is a G4-180 in my COPA paper for $55,000. Engine is 500hrs Since overhaul. You could probably pick it up for under $50,000,
Even if you find a shop that's efficient and knows its way around Lakes you are in for a very substantial bill. You'd have to pick it up pretty well free for even a vague hope of breaking even and it may well be beyond even that.
Sad.
AdamFrisch
4th Jun 2010, 13:00
Took a closer look this morning before I flew back to Lydd. Apparently the parking fees are being paid and up to date and the owner doesn't want to sell! Meantime, crustaceans are growing on the wings...
http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/IMG_1278.jpg
http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/IMG_1279.jpg
http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/IMG_1280.jpg
http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/IMG_1281.jpg
http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/IMG_1282.jpg
Big Pistons Forever
6th Jun 2010, 18:57
This is clearly a case for the SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Airplanes). This neglected and abused aircraft should be seized and given to a deserving pilot who will love and take care of her ;)
The only snag with being given an aircraft like this is that it has the capacity to bankrupt you!
Quite a while ago I visited Aero Innovation. Real Lake experts who routinely rebuild crashed and neglected airframes.
But ask about the costs of doing that and it will scare you silly. There is a reason that a rebuilt Lake will cost >$80k (and potentially a lot more). Yes they have a number of improvements and near 'essential' mods but the manhours needed are enormous.
Amazing to think that someone is still paying rent for this...................
Pilot DAR
7th Jun 2010, 01:45
Poor plane... I would be amazed if it ever flies again. There is a lot of the structure and systems of a Lake which is very corrosion succeptable aluminum alloy, and steel. Corrosion and rust are problems with well maintained Lakes, this one would be a disaster. Its best hope is a nice paint job, and being mouned on a pylon somewhere, or put in a museum for the kids to look at...
Does it go below freezing where its parked? If so, and if the bilges have not been drained and cared for, there is probably damage from freezing.
Oh well....If the owner is not going to care, there's not much anyone else can do...
kenparry
7th Jun 2010, 07:07
Does it go below freezing where its parked?
Yes, every winter,frequently - nowhere near as cold as Ontario, but any rainwater inside will have frozen & melted repeatedly.
BackPacker
7th Jun 2010, 14:30
I'm wondering why anybody with a sound mind would want to own a plane like that, in a state like that, pay up the parking charges in full, and not want to sell.
He or she must either hate this aircraft (-type) with a vengeance and do this as an (expensive) way of getting revenge, or have an extreme case of nostalgi-itis. I mean, in it's current state you can hardly claim any bragging rights about being an aircraft owner anymore, can you?
Any signs the owner creeps into the cockpit at night and makes aircraft noises?
Vizsla
7th Jun 2010, 14:42
A prime example of global warming where the multi millionaire Scottish Laird flew down to shop at Harrods and the loch disappeared before he could get back
Jagmeister
16th Jan 2013, 17:35
No joke!
It went in for it's annual, and they found 1,000 pounds of it under the floorboards.
It was still there when I was taken to see it (locked in a hanger in Massachusetts) in July.