Overgrown and sad Lake Buccaneer at Elstree.
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Overgrown and sad Lake Buccaneer at Elstree.
First time landing at Elstree today and I couldn't help noticing the sad state of the Canadian Lake LA-4-180 (or 200) Buccaneer at the edge of the field. I'm a huge Buccaneer fan and immediately got overwhelmed with motherly feelings for it.
What's its story? How long has it been there? Why has it been there so long? Who owns it? Is it for sale?
What's its story? How long has it been there? Why has it been there so long? Who owns it? Is it for sale?
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It's registered to a Philip Molloy in Calgary, but the mail sent out by the Canadian CAA has been returned as undelivered and the last annual is from the year 2000.
Does anybody have any other info?
Does anybody have any other info?
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Shame it's not like a car where you can just write to the DVLA and ask for a reg. doc. They'll write to the reg keeper and if they get no response they'll send you a V5 in your name!!
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I'm fairly sure this is the first Lake I ever flew, back in about 1988. One of my clients is the national expert on Lake Amphibians. I will ask him what he knows about this particular plane. There are few he does not know!
Lakes are a fantasic plane to fly, with a lot of hidden qualities. They do, however require competent type training, and in particularly for those who have started as float plane pilots. They are safe and easy to fly, but handle quite differently than floatplanes, on the water. They do not dock as nicely as a floatplane though....
Lakes are a fantasic plane to fly, with a lot of hidden qualities. They do, however require competent type training, and in particularly for those who have started as float plane pilots. They are safe and easy to fly, but handle quite differently than floatplanes, on the water. They do not dock as nicely as a floatplane though....
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Please do.
It breaks my heart to see a Lake in this state. Below is a link to photographs of her decline. Compare to the bottom picture where she's in top nick.
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net
It breaks my heart to see a Lake in this state. Below is a link to photographs of her decline. Compare to the bottom picture where she's in top nick.
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net
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They used to have a couple of these in the Lake Como Flying Club in Italy in the 90s.
I watched then for a couple of days flying past our Hotel room window (further up Lake Como-couldn't really miss them they were hellish noisy) until I finally cracked and wandered down to the Club to book a ride.
Sadly the day I went they were both tech but I got a ride up the lake in the club's float equipped C172 I-SAAB.
Wonderful experience except the base /final legs over the town with absolutely nowhere to go if the donk stopped....
Ah memories.
Cusco
I watched then for a couple of days flying past our Hotel room window (further up Lake Como-couldn't really miss them they were hellish noisy) until I finally cracked and wandered down to the Club to book a ride.
Sadly the day I went they were both tech but I got a ride up the lake in the club's float equipped C172 I-SAAB.
Wonderful experience except the base /final legs over the town with absolutely nowhere to go if the donk stopped....
Ah memories.
Cusco
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I remember this LAKE, As it was subject to an article in the local paper with photos.
Can,t remember the exact details but was something along these lines.
The lake was landed on the sea by Southend Seafront and then proceeded to be park up on the beach. On departure it apparently just went from where it was parked, just missing swimmers and small boats.
The local council and the Thames Port Authority got involved.
They found the pilot to have infringed a few rules, so they reported the pilot to the CAA.
The CAA found the pilot to have several licensing issues and the aircraft laking valid / current paperwork. And therefore the pilot was taken to court and received a heavy fine.
So looks like he gave up and left the plane to rot.
rgds trevor
Can,t remember the exact details but was something along these lines.
The lake was landed on the sea by Southend Seafront and then proceeded to be park up on the beach. On departure it apparently just went from where it was parked, just missing swimmers and small boats.
The local council and the Thames Port Authority got involved.
They found the pilot to have infringed a few rules, so they reported the pilot to the CAA.
The CAA found the pilot to have several licensing issues and the aircraft laking valid / current paperwork. And therefore the pilot was taken to court and received a heavy fine.
So looks like he gave up and left the plane to rot.
rgds trevor
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Sadly the day I went they were both tech
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It has for a long time been a sorry landmark at Elstree. It would be lovely to think that someone would restore her to her former glory!!
Surely the management at Elstree must know the score?? If for no other reason than they are probably owed a number of years of parking charges.
Secondly the aircraft is still an aircraft and I am sure the management would insist on at least ground cover insurance.
Maybe the aircraft owes more than she is worth? If something is abandoned for years surely there must come a time legally where an owner looses the right to ownership especially if the aircraft is classified as trespassing and the owner has made no effort to claim it ?
Anyone have a clue to the above points?
Pace
Surely the management at Elstree must know the score?? If for no other reason than they are probably owed a number of years of parking charges.
Secondly the aircraft is still an aircraft and I am sure the management would insist on at least ground cover insurance.
Maybe the aircraft owes more than she is worth? If something is abandoned for years surely there must come a time legally where an owner looses the right to ownership especially if the aircraft is classified as trespassing and the owner has made no effort to claim it ?
Anyone have a clue to the above points?
Pace
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I enquired of my associate, this particualar LA 4 is not known to him. He did say that if the aircraft has been abandoned, and has incurred a debt (tiedown charges?) it perhaps could be seized, and sold to recover costs. I have no idea of the process, but maybe a motivated buyer can set it in motion!
Caution though, LA-4's are great planes, but have very specialized maintenance, training and INSURANCE considerations...
Caution though, LA-4's are great planes, but have very specialized maintenance, training and INSURANCE considerations...
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Elstree could sell the aircraft if the parking is not being paid. Their terms and conditions will have some period within them after which a lien on an aircraft could be enacted.
It takes a coupe of registered letters with specific notice periods and then they could auction it - or possibly sell it by private treaty - if they can prove they have achieved the best price.
The big question is why you would want to buy it. A lycoming engine left for how many years - full rebuild necessary? An airframe used in salt water and then left? An airframe which is essentially full of hydraulics and a UK GA maintenance regime which is a licence for extortion.
Buying a certified aircraft for restoration is a huge gamble. If you could find a maintenance company that knew their way around Lakes (whilst there are a couple of Lakes registered in the UK, the one guy I knew who had one hated all the maintenance organisations he visited with a vengence due to their ignorance......).
On the other hand there are a couple fo sale in flying condition in Europe - what is the sensible thing to do?
It takes a coupe of registered letters with specific notice periods and then they could auction it - or possibly sell it by private treaty - if they can prove they have achieved the best price.
The big question is why you would want to buy it. A lycoming engine left for how many years - full rebuild necessary? An airframe used in salt water and then left? An airframe which is essentially full of hydraulics and a UK GA maintenance regime which is a licence for extortion.
Buying a certified aircraft for restoration is a huge gamble. If you could find a maintenance company that knew their way around Lakes (whilst there are a couple of Lakes registered in the UK, the one guy I knew who had one hated all the maintenance organisations he visited with a vengence due to their ignorance......).
On the other hand there are a couple fo sale in flying condition in Europe - what is the sensible thing to do?
There is a G4-180 in my COPA paper for $55,000. Engine is 500hrs Since overhaul. You could probably pick it up for under $50,000,
Even if you find a shop that's efficient and knows its way around Lakes you are in for a very substantial bill. You'd have to pick it up pretty well free for even a vague hope of breaking even and it may well be beyond even that.
Sad.
Even if you find a shop that's efficient and knows its way around Lakes you are in for a very substantial bill. You'd have to pick it up pretty well free for even a vague hope of breaking even and it may well be beyond even that.
Sad.
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Took a closer look this morning before I flew back to Lydd. Apparently the parking fees are being paid and up to date and the owner doesn't want to sell! Meantime, crustaceans are growing on the wings...
This is clearly a case for the SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Airplanes). This neglected and abused aircraft should be seized and given to a deserving pilot who will love and take care of her 
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The only snag with being given an aircraft like this is that it has the capacity to bankrupt you!
Quite a while ago I visited Aero Innovation. Real Lake experts who routinely rebuild crashed and neglected airframes.
But ask about the costs of doing that and it will scare you silly. There is a reason that a rebuilt Lake will cost >$80k (and potentially a lot more). Yes they have a number of improvements and near 'essential' mods but the manhours needed are enormous.
Amazing to think that someone is still paying rent for this...................
Quite a while ago I visited Aero Innovation. Real Lake experts who routinely rebuild crashed and neglected airframes.
But ask about the costs of doing that and it will scare you silly. There is a reason that a rebuilt Lake will cost >$80k (and potentially a lot more). Yes they have a number of improvements and near 'essential' mods but the manhours needed are enormous.
Amazing to think that someone is still paying rent for this...................
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Poor plane... I would be amazed if it ever flies again. There is a lot of the structure and systems of a Lake which is very corrosion succeptable aluminum alloy, and steel. Corrosion and rust are problems with well maintained Lakes, this one would be a disaster. Its best hope is a nice paint job, and being mouned on a pylon somewhere, or put in a museum for the kids to look at...
Does it go below freezing where its parked? If so, and if the bilges have not been drained and cared for, there is probably damage from freezing.
Oh well....If the owner is not going to care, there's not much anyone else can do...
Does it go below freezing where its parked? If so, and if the bilges have not been drained and cared for, there is probably damage from freezing.
Oh well....If the owner is not going to care, there's not much anyone else can do...