Assistants

[the pointed end]

My first post on here, get it off my chest time.
Any one else at Swanwick bemused by the attitude of some (majority) of the ATSA's?
I work there in administration and am constantly amazed at these self important poeple wanting it all ways. With rumours gathering of large lay offs I cannot understand their attitude to the organisation in general.
They are so hard done by - cant survive unless they get good rises etc but try getting some of them in for overtime, my god talk about the world owing them a living. Had an instance 2 weeks ago when some were told at the weekend they were not needed and could go, well they could of been home an hour earlier without going round gloating, oh look they are going to pay me for sitting at home! Well wise up chaps, you could be sitting at home for agreat deal longer.
On another point I read on an older thread about the re-location issue, the poster stated that anyone who had not relocated should not be at a disadvantage should it come to redundancy, how can that be fair?
I relocated my family at great upheaval from west london because we were expected too, now it seems large groups of the workforce are driving 60 plus miles and then expect to be fresh and alert to do a shift. This just can't be right. Would be interesting to see absenteeism figures for the poeple that are travelling long distance, I know of one guy, wont name him, who took a day off sick because he had .................hiccups!
Says it all really
Rant over

[10W]

cant survive unless they get good rises etc but try getting some of them in for overtime

There may be some valid points in there, but overtime is voluntary. Why shouldn't someone say 'no thanks' if they're not interested ?

[5milesbaby]

:D :D :D :D

Thank you for making me laugh, try at least to sound slightly serious next time
:}

[Arkady]

"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions."

[Roffa]

the pointed end, 2/10 for effort.

Otherwise pretty poor attempt at a wind up really. If I was writing you a report card it would be along the lines of 'could do better, must try harder'. :rolleyes:

Hopefully my atsa chums will just ignore you.

[Minesthechevy]

<<< Hopefully my atsa chums will just ignore you. >>>

Well, this ex-ATSA certainly has..... the OP seems to be an unimaginative variation on an occasional theme.......

[EGLL19791986]

So you work in 'Administration'? Nothing to do with ATC then!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

EGLL19791986... Jeezzz.. I must have sat alongside you sometime? Hope the nightmares are easing up!!

As for the originator.. I think he needs a few months of night duties to sort him out!!

Bren M (ex A-Watch Hounslow Goods Yard and then West Drayton Open Prison).

[EGLL19791986]

HI Bren. Well you might not have sat beside me, but I probably put your strips out for you on a few occasions!:ok: Hope you are enjoying your retirement, don't worry you're not missing much by not being at Swanwick!!

[niknak]

Pointy thing.

Your attitude to operational staff is indicitive of the administrative staff at airports and within ATC, nice enough people but the chips on your shoulders require an articulated lorry to get you to and from the office.
The vast majority of your type are probably very good at counting pens, reams of paper and formulating next months stationary order on a spreadsheet, indeed, you are probably capable of putting out a stonking memo or two about use of the photocopier.
I dare say that you could surpass any of our armed forces in serving our Queen and country by boring the enemy to death in any given conflict, but when it comes to doing an operational job in aviation you wouldn't have a clue.
Now run along before I secretly increase your ink cartridge order and arrange for it to be delivered by a different driver on a Tuesday morning instead of the chap who's always done it on a Thursday - just after lunch.

[Lon More]

http://sfw.org.ua/uploads/posts/2009-06/1245087926_troll-detected.png

However there do seem to be a number of easily bruised egos out there


Before jumping down my neck, I did my time as an ATCA (Min. of Av.and CAA as was0

[Foxy Loxy]

Having previously worked without assistants, I know how wonderfully valuable they are, whether you need them to help with an emergency, or just one of those silly days when the PBX line seems to go nuts for no real reason.

I can function without an ATSA, but where I work? They're worth their weight in platinum. :ok:

Thanks, guys!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Simple stuff - if the admin wallahs stayed home for a few days nobody would notice. If the ATSAs did the same, everything would grind to a stop.

[chevvron]

At the airfield where I worked there was an ex ATCA who was in admin (but not NATS admin)- he was one of those who declined to transfer to the CAA when it was created back in '75 and transferred to another branch of the civil service - remember NATS and NATCS had been Department of Trade and Industry and before that Board of Trade. It was apparent there was a hell of a chip on his shoulder by his attitude to ATC staff. Remind you of someone?
The pointed end; were you an ATSA at one time?

[Vercingetorix]

Assistants
Wonderful. I married one.:ok:

[5milesbaby]

Should I be worried that I'm with an admin assistant then :eek: :O

Not THIS admin person I must certainly point out :}

[goldfrog]

Simple stuff - if the admin wallahs stayed home for a few days nobody would notice. If the ATSAs did the same, everything would grind to a stop.

Unless it happens that the admin wallah is the one that makes your pay happen!

[Lon More]

Wonderful. I married one.

One divorced me:(

Wonderful people, couldn't eat a whole one anymore though

[DC10RealMan]

The Pointed One.

If (and its a big if) you are correct and that some ATSAs do have "an attitude" then perhaps it is a response to the general attitude and culture at Swanwick towards them, both individually and collectively.

[jackieofalltrades]

Wonderful people, couldn't eat a whole one anymore though
Try some Tabasco sauce, goes with anything.

On a serious note, the ops rooms couldn't run without ATSAs. They do a fantastic job, certainly make our controllers' jobs easier.

[Lon More]

Try some Tabasco sauce, goes with anything

Things go better with Coke

[Foxy Loxy]

I worked for years without (an) ATSA(s). Worked for a bit at an RAF station (as a civvy) where I learnt their true worth in diamonds.
Now, I have the privelege of working with an incredible ATSA team, and I simply couldn't imagine NOT having them with me.

You know who you are, chaps (and gal) :ok:

[Lon More]

also without them who would make or fetch the coffee? The Supervisor?

[chiglet]

Many [many] moons ago, I was the Approach assistant at Brum. One of the APCAs duties was to make the tea. On this particular day, we had "visitors"...:(, so I had to make extra tea. As was the norm, I held the tray in my left hand/arm and picked up the cup for the u/t APC, saying
"Don't move John, your cuppa is here"....as I leant over, he spun round and said "What"? as his elbow collided with my tray...:{ Twentytwo cups of tea were spilled. Over him :ok:, over the Radar :uhoh:, Radio panels and Telephone keyboards....:\
The most annoying thing was I had to make 22 cups of tea again :mad:

[Mr_Grubby]

A few lines about life at Northern Radar, Lindholme in 1976 taken from my memoirs.

All the Assistants were brilliant.


One Assistant I always enjoyed working with was a guy called ****

He was an overweight young lad from Manchester. He had such a broad accent and a high pitched voice that it was sometimes difficult to understand him when he spoke, especially when he got excited.

He was a top notch assistant and just the sort of guy you wanted alongside you when it got busy and you were up to your armpits in aluminum.

One afternoon we were sitting together, me on radar, him alongside me on the boards. It was very quiet but I could see that soon it would get very busy. On the radar I could see lots of aircraft taking off from Heathrow and Gatwick all coming our way.

Now **** was not in the best of health that afternoon. He blamed it on a dodgy lamb Vindaloo the night before. He kept running to the loo, leaving me on my own. That in itself was not a problem, with very few aircraft I could manage.

It started to get very busy as the hoards of aircraft called us as they headed towards Scotland and then out over the North Atlantic to America. **** started to get a little agitated. I asked him what was wrong. He said that he needed the toilet and quick. I said ‘Christ man you can’t leave me now on my own with all this traffic!’

He stayed at his post. When all the aeroplanes had gone and we were able to relax a bit, **** stood up and said; ‘I think I need to visit the toilet’ He had soiled himself. When he returned he was in a sorry state. I sent him home for the rest of the shift to get himself cleaned up.

On his chair was a little brown stain. The chair was pushed into a corner of the Ops room and from that day onwards until the unit closed, nobody ever sat in that chair. It was forever known as ‘****’s chair’.

He made the ultimate sacrifice and stayed at his post supporting his Controller at the expense of soiling himself. A real colleague, he should have got a medal. If he did, can you imagine the citation at the Palace when the Queen says, ‘To **** ******* an OBE for sh*tt*ng in his pants and not leaving his Controller on the radar on his own?’

Magic.



A good Assistant is worth his/her weight in gold.

They have saved me many times from grief over the years before I retired.

C.

[chevvron]

When I was at Lindholme in '73, there was an assistant who made tea as follows:-
Put water in kettle, add tea, milk and sugar then boil the lot together.
Thank goodness for the RAF crewrooms!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Loved that one, T. We used to make curry in the kettle out in HLLT. The subsequent cuppa was out of this world!!

When I worked at Kidlington there was just one ATCA and he was superhuman - he did GMC with his Student Licence, kept a handwritten log, provided strips, answered the phones, read the barometer, changed the recording tapes, got us cold drinks in the summer...... When I got to West Drayton 23 years later he was there too!! It was like having Radar from MASH.... he was 10 steps ahead of everything. Before anyone even mentioned a go-around, he'd have the new FPS in front of us.

Thanks, MH, for some outstanding help and some great fun.

PS I note with sadness that the originator of this thread has not commented further......

[Lon More]

Chevvron RAF Standard that was.Same at Sopley (Southern Radar) in the 1960s; the last duty of the night ATCA was to chuck packet of tea, packet of sugar, tin of condensed milk, water into the urn and boil it all up. At intervals through the day the process was repeated as required, First duty if the night ATCA was to empty the urn which by then had a layer of sodden tea leaves several inches thick at the bottom. Needless to say the inside of the urn, and of the tea mugs (mainly 1 pinters nicked from transport cafes) was a rich mahogany brown,As civvies we were exempt from what little bull there was (anybody remember the LS WAAFs and the Teddybear Club?:E) however we were required to make an effort for AOCs (?) inspections. This involved a tin of Vim and a scrubbing brush being used on everything in sight. I quickly learned to hide ny own mug but iIt normally took several weeks to get the brew back to an acceptable taste

[Vercingetorix]

Mr Grubby
An excellent story, reminds me of good times past

as does

Lon More
'One divorced me"

I divorced mine after she she became a cadet/controller. Must be a connection there, somewhere??? Well, she was a 23 year old Babe!

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time to ?:uhoh:

[Air.Farce.1]

Lindholme in 1976


Those were the days, hottest summer ever too:cool:

[Mr_Grubby]

Vercingetorix


Ahh.... I know your 23 year old babe. She is beautiful. Obviously not 23 now, but the years have been kind.
Sorry mate.

C.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<also without them who would make or fetch the coffee? The Supervisor?>>

Meant to respond to this bit.. Way back when Pontius, etc,.... there was a tradition on A Watch, Heathrow, that the last person to arrive for the morning duty would go back down and get the teas, irrespective of rank. After the trials of the M4 on a foggy winter morning, searching for a ground floor slot in the car park, avoiding getting killed crossing the road and stumbling up the stairs to the tower the last thing you wanted to hear was JK singing: "I like a nice cup of tea in the morning..."

[Vercingetorix]

Hi Mr Grubby
Yep, no longer 23, she is taking early retirement in June coming.
Time passes quickly when you are enjoying yourself!

Cheers:ok:

[Lon More]

there was a tradition on A Watch, Heathrow

We had something similar; it went straight out the door when I became Supervisor :E, although in fairness the machine was in a room just behind our sector suites. I've also done more than my fair share of cooking on night duties.

[radarman]

Assistants performing beyond the call of duty - Pebbles? :ok:

[Vercingetorix]

Mr Grubby
Further to your reply re 23 year old babe.
Memories, memories.
Best encapsulated in a duet by Shania Twain & Wille Nelson called "Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain".

Shania Twain's pronunciation of the word 'memories ' brings it all back!!

P.s. My eyes are blue.

Cheers:ok:

[the pointed end]

The response on here says it all really, you suggest a month of nights would suit me , must be so busy I dont know how I would cope.
A lot of criticism aimed my way but not one condemnation of the assistant for taking a days sick due to hiccups.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<but not one condemnation of the assistant for taking a days sick due to hiccups>>

Have you ever had a protracted spell of hiccups? Probably not. Assistants spend a lot of time on the telephone passing messages (clearances) which have to be right. If the person cannot do that it's rather pointless him being at work. Some years ago my ATC Licence was suspended due to a medical problem. I was, to all intents and purposes, 100% fit but had a problem which the CAA medics wanted to investigate. They duly did and re-instated my licence. During that time I did not go to work; I stayed at home.

You have to accept that some jobs are different. Would you be happy for your wife and kids to fly on an aircraft which was being flown by someone with a protracted spell of hiccups, which can be painful and worrying?

I might be a retired ATCO but I started life as an unestablished Clerical Assistant so I know both sides. Accept that your job is different to that of ATSAs and accept it. If you don't like it then try for class to class transfer to the ATSA grade...

[DC10RealMan]

The Pointed One.

I wonder if you are being a little harsh and judgemental discussing a colleagues medical condition on a public forum. I know from experience how unhealthy the en-route operations room at Swanwick is with limited or no access to sunlight and/or fresh air compounded by staff coming into the operations room with respiratory illnesses which are then spread through the airconditioning system.
"Hiccups" may well mask a more serious medical or psycological issue that the individual has and as we know from recent sad experiences the supervisory staff have neither the personal qualities, empathy, or intelligence to deal with it.

[ZOOKER]

Surely the en-route operations room at Swanwick should have the best 'working environment' of any ECAC centre?
It is, after all, 'ranked', 1st.
Any truth in the rumour that the other UK centre, ('ranked' 6th), frequently smells of 'meat'?

[Lon More]

It is, after all, 'ranked', 1st. By who? A legend it its own lifetime

[jackieofalltrades]

Any truth in the rumour that the other UK centre, ('ranked' 6th), frequently smells of 'meat'?

Not a rumour, it's true. There's a meat processing/packing plant on the industrial estate nearby, so it's not uncommon for the smell of meat to waff through the air conditioning to give the Ops Room the ambiance of a BBQ.

A lot of criticism aimed my way but not one condemnation of the assistant for taking a days sick due to hiccups.

Just why would you want someone's poor health to be criticised anyways? Like HD and DC10RealMan have explained, there can be many good reasons for an Assistant to stay at home. Are you really that bitter towards the staff that work in the Ops Room?

[EGLL19791986]

I don't think I'd go sick for a day with Hiccups. Might well take a month
off with NIBS induced stress though!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

An ATCO friend of mine had a couple of days off sick. On the form he entered the reason as "Amnesia" and under "Branch" he wrote "?"

[EGLL19791986]

Bit like the well know 'Scottish' ATCO at West Drayton who went sick and put PMT down on the form. HR sent it back because he put the wrong dates on!!!

[ZOOKER]

Lon, allegedly it was 'ranked' by a high-flying 'ranker'. - "A legend in its own lifetime". :E
Wake up and smell the 'meat'. :}

[Minesthechevy]

<<< An ATCO friend of mine had a couple of days off sick. On the form he entered the reason as "Amnesia" and under "Branch" he wrote "?">>

Another ATCO, well-known to HD, went flying but was grounded far from home due to inclement met. He phoned in sick, saying he was 'under the weather'. Allegedly.

[Air.Farce.1]

But as I remember it, the small black insects crawling into my headset, The Borstal Boys doing the gardening and one of our happy band getting locked up for offences related to a 16mm projector and "foreign" films. An electronic tote board so far away that I had to wear glasses and the guy who worked in the tea bar had a stunning orange Mk1 Escort.

Airfix guys working downstairs in the incredible heat while the cold air coming up through the floor beside Height Finder4 was just magic. Tyram Hall for after hours beer and Jim Rose making sure everyone's car was taxed.

Lindholme was a place with a lot more character, and characters, than NPC.

The fact that they had to do the accommodation up to make it a prison really says it all.

Jim Rose the RAF copper:E He chased some of us round the airfield (disused) one Saturday night in our car with no headlights..pitch black !

I thought I drunk Tyram Hall dry :}