Turkish Airlines - THY Recruitment (Merged)

[Kapitanleutnant]

You know guys….

One man's trash can be another's treasure. That goes with bidding, rosters as well as.. Airline companies!

I can only comment on EK since I work here. I would say this to chrislikesblue: Walk a few months in our shoes and you'll completely understand why guys are bailing out left and right. And at least 4 others I know of here are either at or going to THY. Yes the money is less BUT at some point certain things become more important than the financial aspect of it.

To take it this to the extremes, you can earn a million Lira/dollars/euros a year and be mostly happy but when the company starts asking you to work 60 and 70 hours each and every week, you can only do that so long before you just break down and start making errors, and mistakes and worse, an effect on your family! I've flown with two FO's now in the past 2 months who have said to me that their kids have asked, "Daddy, why are you so tired all the time. We want to play". That is one of several reasons why EK pilots are leaving and very few qualified pilots are applying at EK. Notice the severely lowered minimums at EK now? Guess why that is???

As a suggestion, I'd offer you to have a look at and read the other threads on EK. I'd say it's mostly spot on!

So… flying 95 plus hours month after month after month is simply not sustainable to most and when we 777 guys see a roster with 9 and sometimes 10 days off in a row with a confirmed seat to/from home.. each and every month to refresh after the grueling roster of 3 "ER's" each month, a lot of EK guys are saying, "Sign me up" as it is far far superior to flying 95 hours each month until you have vacation… sometimes up to 7-8 months.

Dubai? Well, I can't really say much because it can cause issues here so I'll just say it takes on a very different persona between living here full time vs just coming for two weeks of vacation. Worth every day of the two weeks vacation I might add.

Just some food for thought….

K

[foswillruletheworld]

I don't think you can compare the lifestyle in Dubai and Istanbul, because there is nothing cost free and enjoyable at the same time in Dubai. You can always take a walk in several places in Istanbul(cost free). Well for the rosters, it can get worse and worse but it won't be even half bad as in EK. My friend does 4 flights in the high season and 2 days sim. Those 4 flights consist of 3 USA destinations and the other one to Ankara which is 1 hour leg. So when you come back with a ground time of 1 hour you still have the rest of the day. In the fors case scenario you have lots of off days. 2x4 days off in a row + 1x5 days off in a row and 1x3 days off in a row. That is "the thoughest roster ever" he ever came across with(type 777) and if you ever get such a roster in EK, please stick with EK.
People are not coming to THY for the pay but for the relaxed roster.
For a normal month you can conclude one of those flights and the sim.

[SMT Member]

Dubai lifestyle: Spend a bit more than you actually make, on shiny stuff you don't really need, to impress people you don't like.

[alwayzinit]

One other small point about the difference between THY and EK. From IST you can drive away to Europe when the brown stuff hits the fan ....................................:uhoh:

[twentyyearstoolate]

Even the wide body pilots are looking at other jobs now. That's the talk anyway, whether they move or not is yet to be seen. The fact they are all talking about it, mainly due to the salary, and the changing of conditions as it suits THY, is very different to the way it was 2 years ago.

I just hate the way they charge in Dollars but pay in Lira. Why dollars for income, but Lira for outgoings!!?? ...... Management getting bonuses off our losses!

It's not just THY though... though whole industry is F....d!

[TypeIV]

So where is the massexodus? Only 42 pilots have resigned this year. One has died, 8 were sacked due to age and five were sacked for other reasons.

181 yibancys hired this year...

[twentyyearstoolate]

You have to realise when a pilot makes a decision to leave, it takes several months to secure another position.

I have noticed in the last 6 weeks a massive change in sentiment with the expats. Nearly all of them are either leaving, in Interviews with other Airlines, have applied to other Airlines, or are at the very least talking of leaving. It wasn't like this before (certainly wide body).

So your "mass Exodus" whatever the term implies, will be evident within the next 3 to 6 months. That's my guess anyway.

If TK fix the salary, it may go some way to block the leak.

[BonesBrigade]

I spoke with recruiters for Turkish... THE ONLY reason I will never go there is that they expect me to pay for my own type rating. If that isn't bad enough, they do not guarantee that you will be placed into the type of aircraft you hired on for... so someone who buys their own 737 type for Turkish could then be put into a320 school and be required to buy that type too.

I have 4,000 of turbine time, and an airline wants me to pay for my own type rating? They tried recruiting ME, not the other way around, and this is their offer? Laughable.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Welcome to Aviation OUTSIDE the USA!!

K

[Scott_T]

Good evening Gentlemen,

Could someone who has recently been through the THY selection please please contact me via PM i have tried before and had no luck! i genuinely would appreciate it.

Thank you in advance,

Scott

[chrispatrickGA]

Same for me.... please can someone who went through the ThY screening contact me , thanks

[Wh1sper]

Can anyone confirm the rumor that over 50 pilots from THY has left for Qatar Airways?
Lira keeps on falling, will be interesting with the upcoming election as well. Won't exactly make things better at THY.

[Kapitanleutnant]

What's the guess there for the political thing? Erdogan or someone else?

K

[foswillruletheworld]

The rumours i got about THY was about 60 captains and 150 first officers leaving since the beginning of this year. Only 120 left for Qatar but i don't know if it is true anymore. However i got the rumours both from THY side and Qatar side.
The currency problem is mainly because of Turkish economy falling apart. Since the first time the U.S. manufacturing low cost dollars and pumping the world with that, most of the clever countries invested on education, building factories with big production lines and technology like South Korea.
You know what Turkey did? They built houses and buildings. It is like the real estate crisis both in Dubai and the sort of mortgage crisis in the U.S. back in 2008.
We have built a lot of real estates and a very big balloon came up. Since the U.S. will raise the interest rate, USD is warming up for a race while TL is calming down.
What will happen after now on?
For sure there will be an economical crisis and it will be big, and it will be deep. Big banks' projections for the USD/TL rate for the end of 2016 is somewhre around 3.85.
So it is not the USD moving up, it is the TL falling down.
Since there also will be a political crisis after the elections, none of the governmental facilities don't want to do any investments(since all of the moves they make are dirty and corrupted) because the next day of the elections, if the opposing party wins, they will start cleaning the mess up from last then backwards.

[cucuotto]

The final blow at THY is coming by NLH. Rumors are they will be offering a 40% pay rise and open two new bases in EU BCN and ORY on 787. I think this will cause a massive outflow from the ranks of 777 skippers.Unless something will be done asap.

[ExDubai]

What's the guess there for the political thing? Erdogan or someone else?

From my point of view, Erdogan will be the key player for the next years. Esp. now with the fighting against the kurds. The timing for the crisis was excellent.

The biggest issue I see at the moment is the massiv drop of the Lira during the last 3 years. Loosing more then 45% of the salary because of the weak currency is an real issue for the most expat pilots.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Thanks Ex dubai!

What's NLH?

[ExDubai]

What's NLH?

Norwegian Long Haul I assume...

[ExDubai]

@furbpilot Perfect for Erdogan and the AKP.

What options should Europe reconsider? The relationships with Europe and esp. the EU are struggling since years. I do not expect that their will be any improvement over the next years.

The US policy will not change a lot. Turkey is now a partner in the war against IS. And with Russian troops on their way to Syrian the US will work close with the Turkish Army.

3.85 sounds a little bit to high for the USD, but who knows. That would be a real issue and create a real Exodus of THY pilots.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Apparently the pilot shortage isn't bad enough to make any changes in the eyes of THY management. When this shortage starts to take its toll on flights not being manned, then and only then will changes be coming.

K

[Kapitanleutnant]

A bit doom and gloom there aren't' you, furb?

I believe the government… whoever it is, will not let THY, the national flag carrier be diminished significantly as air commerce is pretty crucial to any economy in the world and they are well aware of that.

I will repeat: When a jet doesn't fly due to no crew, that's when things will change.

K

[Kapitanleutnant]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree then. You won't convince me though. By the fact I've been here at EK for 8 years now I stopped judging by western standards long long ago.

To say there is "no management" is rather ignorant. Wouldn't you think it would be just the opposite, they would be probably working extra hard to make sure they keep things going. You have to admit, other than the Lira, THY has done a pretty darn good job overall. I've been in the biz for probably longer than you've been alive and have seen economies ebb and flow along with political consternation and even bankruptcies, yet things continue to chug along no matter what. I think you'd be surprised at how resilient airlines can be even after years of upheaval and turmoil.

And Thank goodness it's not like Dubai…. that's why so many of us are leaving there (EK) to come to TK!

Have a good one furb.

Kap

[porkflyer]

Who ever left a permanent job to join THY needs a brain transplant.
You will be just a Pilot Available for Disembarkation,a temporary fix to a lack of local crew till it suit them, and ,behind the facade, treated accordingly. In their paranoid view of the world you are just a yabanci taking a Turck's job The CEO had even to apologize to local cadets for hiring you.
Regardless on narrow body life is hell with no real rest..imagine commuting possible.
On long haul getting worst by the day I'm been told.
The professional standards are low, salary are now the worst among major airlines. Every day happier and happier I walked at the right time.
An option only for the desperate and the retired not willing to go to far from EU to play a bit longer.

[twentyyearstoolate]

I think a lot of people are leaving soon. Even the Long Haul guys. Nothing will be fixed before the end of the year, which will be too late for the majority.

Sentiment among the expats is the worst I've seen here in 5 years.

[TypeIV]

Nowhere to go. They have hired almost four times the amount of people who have left.

Vote with your feet or try to be positive, for the sake of your own mental health.

[TypeIV]

If there are plenty of other operators making the hop worth it, then the salary issue should be very easy to solve if a pair in the sacks of the pilots are present :E

What you have is to choose between is:
multiresistant bacterea in China, forget about going to sleep during cruise.
the risk of being beheaded in a country east of Egypt,
slavery in 60 degrees of heat in the Persian Gulf with a camera outside your house entrance. Most of them are not even recruiting anymore.
Fly during summer only för Norwegian and eat noodles in a caravan rest of the year.
Ryanair... I won't even get into that,
work for taxi-driver wages in Germany.

[TypeIV]

I know people who have been involved with the chinese aviation as well, from what I've heard, there are very good reasons for why they have to fork out that kind of money to have people coming. For a quick economical boost where people squat down and do their business on the sidewalk 10m from a toilet, China might be a good option provided you don't mind having your passport confiscated when not going on a stay-over, on a 5 star cockroach infested hotel, of course.

40% salary increase yes, but try paying your taxes accordingly in Europe and tell me how much is left, tax frauds in Europe usually result in as long imprisonments as manslaughter if we're talking about a typical yearly captain income. Short haul is still seasonal contracts even though they promise you something else.

The wide body gig on THY is still a reasonable gig compared to what's available around. Regarding the 737-fleet however, I wonder what the guys putting up with it are made of.

[bob777]

Unless something changes quick in regards to salary, commuting ( no commuting on narrow body presently notwithstanding the mendacious advertising) and attitude I think you will find it very easy to pass an assessment. Everyone I know has resigned is about to do so, thinking about it or going for screening even Turks..but it will take a couple of months before you'll realize your mistake,. Many particularly liked those nice duties ending at 2330 before days off ( 2 ) and the other one starting at 0130 just after it...a real treat !!

[foswillruletheworld]

furbpilot
Whatever your reasons are, i must say that you are a racist person. You cannot talk about a person with a generating race-wise attitude so please stop turning this nice forum into a racist junk...
Deal with the things your management throw at you and stop generalizing people into the boxes you create in your little brain.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Plus 1 for foswillruletheworld!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1

Kap

[de facto]

Did the poor guy hand over his resignation before having a start date?
Lets hope he gets another job in the meanwhile then.
Everyone has their own needs,some already made their cash and need a rest in THY longhaul,unfortunately contributing or at least not helping for better terms,while others simply can not work like dogs and losing pay every month...
There are jobs,plenty indeed,but all require a sacrifice,I know what mine will be...

[SADDLER]

Ok kids, settle down.
With the probable shutdown of Transaero, I presume THY are going to get all the qualified pilots it wants ?
Any thoughts ?

[ExDubai]

Not only Transaero, Air France will start a restructuring within the next couple of months. Rumors talking about 300 pilots mainly long haul. So plenty of pilots to fill the seats of EK, THY etc.

[ExDubai]

@flyflye Can't tell you much about THY because I didn't work there. The biggest issue from my point of view is the downfall of the Lira in the last years. The Lira lost in the last 3 year 45% against the Euro. Against the USD the Lira lost 67% in the last 3 years. So as an expat you have a look at you banks statement and literally you see the meltdown of your salary.

From my point of view they are already on a crossroad and need implement the necessary changes (not only in point of HR), but hey I'm just a member of PPRUNE, not a member of the THY Management team.

From my point of view, the "gigs" with EK, QR and "the airline which is not allowed to be named @pprune" are def. better then THY. But all of them have their ups and downs.

[SADDLER]

Flyflye
Can't blame you for not wanting to trawl through pages of stuff.
I'm happy to help.
Pm me.

[de facto]

Not only Transaero, Air France will start a restructuring within the next couple of months. Rumors talking about 300 pilots mainly long haul. So plenty of pilots to fill the seats of EK, THY etc.

I bet you not one Air france pilot will end up in THY.
They have links to Sky Team Chinese Airlines members already and why would they go to THY and fly 1000 hrs/year while they just about to lose their position for not wanting to fly more than 500 without extra pay?

[ExDubai]

I bet you not one Air france pilot will end up in THY.
They have links to Sky Team Chinese Airlines members already and why would they go to THY and fly 1000 hrs/year while they just about to lose their position for not wanting to fly more than 500 without extra pay?

Mhm.... heard already other voices. Maybe they will recognize that the world outside France is somehow different. Anyway, wait and see.

[ExDubai]

@furbpilot Why are you still in this job if everything is that bad?

People are spoiling their lives, families and health for a few bucks.

Do you believe that this is only the fact in the aviation business? This happend already in the most parts of the economy. Apple is only a designhouse, manufacturing in China at Foxcon. I believe you know about their working conditions. What about the construction workforce in DXB?

[ExDubai]

@furbpilot As a human you have to compare yourselve with other humans. The life and dignity of a so called "sandpit-slave" has the same worth then your or mine. At least that's my point of view.

And when it comes to the rules of a global economy, you have to compare yourselve with colleagues all over the globe. Do you want to judge a colleague who is working in a Part of the globe where his salary is only 25% of the salary compare to the ME carriers? I understand that this guy want to have a better future for his family. That's part of the "global Monopoly" game. And yes, it is somehow a depressing scenario.

[Kirks gusset]

flyflye, you may do better to stay on type and look at Borajet. The fleet is expanding and it would give you an opportunity to experience " living in Turkey" before jumping to THY. There is no restriction to go from Borajet to THY, unlike SXS and SXD. Pay would not be so great but the overall package may work out the same as they provide accommodation. Ok, its mainly domestic routes from SAW and ESB bases but you can find your feet more easily. On the other hand, if you fancy THY then homework is required due to the vastly differing " opinions and facts" posted here

[foswillruletheworld]

ExDubai i do understand completely what you mean but i really doubt that furb will get it, too.
He just positions himself like a person above everything. Above other line of jobs, other human beings, above a company, above the whole industry.
The thing is you will be a slave no matter what you do. Even if you do a freelance job; you will be a slave of the general economy which is connected to some crap politics decided by some big shots. You will just not be taking direct orders from someone else, however will still be relying on a lot of variables.
Good luck with your life.

[Evenrude]

Anybody here who is a current 737 Captain with THY who has children in international schools please pm me. I am considering the move to Istanbul and would apprecaite any information so that I can make an informed decision.

[Boeingrestricted]

International schools are very costly. You are looking at a cool 20000,- usd range. (and up, rather than down).

[PTU738]

Finally somebody with balls.
Very well said. It is time to wake up pilots.

If you see what's going on in the ME, pilots are working themselves to death and now everybody has to follow.
Pilots in TK on the shorthaul fleets have the worst conditions in the industry.
No life, just fly day and night.

There must be more in life.
This isn't a career anymore. With nowadays rosters you can't do it for 30 years.
Managers don't care about your health, when start pilots to realise this and stand up against ever eroding conditions.

Fly safe

[Kirks gusset]

Life on the long haul fleet, especially Triple is better than the SH, having said that, there are plenty of guys that visit home at least twice a month, OK, its only 3 day spurts but this is NOT ADVERTISED as a commute contract by THY, what lies the agencies ply to get recruits is another matter. Schools are expensive but they are anywhere outside Europe, even DOHA, Qatar and Bahrain so that issue can be generalised . On the plus side living costs are much cheaper than elsewhere, and NO you don't need to live in a dump, that's a personal choice. Crew planning do work you hard according to their rules which seem banana shaped at times. All this business about moral high ground, pride and self respect is smoke and mirror stuff that went out of the window 10 years ago when the profession permanently changed for the worse, it ain't changing back, accept it..
Even Easyjet, BA and other " respectable" airlines crews complain about fatigue, it's here to stay. Yes, we could all down tools and walk out, who will feed the kids and pay the bills? the problem is the " moral high ground" has a cost no-one is prepared to pay.. As for Unions, I was in BALPA for 20 years and I can't think of one single thing they did for us other than collect 1% of our salary, look at recent events, NAS, caved in, only AER Lingus won the battle in 2009, everyone else crashed and burnt. As for incompetent management.. show me an airline where they are not! The wake up call is for the delusional protagonists that think the " old days" will return.. as for balls.. no point in having big ones firing blanks:=

[bravo45]

^

For what its worth, I just got an email from a recruiter about Pegasus. And here is your commuting contract:

"
* Permanent Contracts with Commuting Option (3 weeks on 1 week off)
"

Not sure I agree with that, but its least of my concerns. I can live with a non commuting contract too if everything else is right. I know nothing about Pegasus but obviously I immediately thought of THY and can't seem to believe Pegasus would be better all things considered.

I hope we get a new thread about Pegasus.

[Evenrude]

Thank you all for your responses.

[Ex-Brazilian]

Hey guys,

just wondering what a typical month looks like in THY on the 737... salary, perdiems, roster, days off... and also career prospect, upgrade, widebody and etc.

if someone can help me please pm :ok:

[Flap2]

Hi,

1. Roster I dont know. But around 70-90Hrs per month, not commutable. I think the max. is 4 days off in a row once per month. But some one might be able to provide better info.

2. No Upgrade chance allthough advertised. The no University upgrade with 6500h is just a gig to get more applicants. No upgrade to Wide Body as the internal rule says that only guys with 1000tt as a maximum may apply for 777. So u as expat gonna be excluded.

Hope it helped a bit to lighten the dark.

Cheerio

[de facto]

Foreign fo are being upgraded;fact as i know one.
Max is 5/2 or 4/3.
Late finish very early start.

[REMAX11]

I personally know a DLH first officer that joined few month ago and as been already upgraded.

I think is a sort of partnership between LUFTHANSA and TK.

I will try to have him write some words about it.
Regards
REMAX11

[de facto]

Not sure he will write here...only moaning snd bit@@@ng here.....more entertaining.
Let s keep this thread a dark place,shall we?:E

[NoodleAir]

Any of you gentlemen cares to share with us the terms offered to NTR 777 Captains?

Thanx

[REMAX11]

Ok furbpilot, it might be.

But: I saw a picture of him joining TK 9 month ago, in fo uniform in A 320 TK cockpit.

I saw a picture some weeks ago, in cpt uniform, in A 320 TK cockpit flying, and he was operating on the left seat.

So, I dunno:hmm:

[de facto]

Furbpilot,foreign pilots are being upgraded,fact.

[Ilyushin76]

Just a small query from the pilots who know a bit about the Turk policies.

This may sound absurd but since I saw this in the middle east I would like to know if the same rules apply in Turkey.

Do educational documents that are provided to Turkish Airlines need some sort of verification for work permit issuance or the company itself goes through the trouble of verifying the educational credentials?

[Kirks gusset]

You will need an " official translation" of your documents, including the subjects studied stamped by a " Noter" in Turkey. In some cases,HR will contact your education establishment also to confirm attendance.

[steemer100]

Does anyone know if Turkish takes any pilots with a color deficiency problem?

[chrispatrickGA]

Good evening,


What I can tell is that medical test check the color-blindness...
So be ready to get into rouble if you try to pass the turkish medical.:ugh:

[tongo-sierra]

Steemer100 check PM....

[You rock]

Steemer100 check PM....

Could someone please put up a typical roster for a senior first officer 777

[You rock]

is it true at turkish a 777 Senior First Officer will only do 3 flights a month, so my question is, are you then rostered the rest of the time off and you could commute into europe.

[latetonite]

Unfortunately you need three flights a month minimum in order to qualify for captain in two years.

[You rock]

I was not asking about requirement too qualify as captain, I just want too know how many days off a Senior First Officer gets each month between flights

[You rock]

I was not asking about requirement too qualify as captain, I just want too know how many days off a Senior First Officer gets each month between flights

Anyone know anything

[cucuotto]

What I hear is that THY is not good for expat even less for FO. Only retired WB captains and 777 desert runner get a decent deal. My two cents.

[ExDubai]

Have a look to the exchange rate and the development during the last 3 years. For an expat we are talking about 35% salary decrease.

[Wh1sper]

If they would start paying in Euros or USD all their recruitment problems would be sorted.

[cucuotto]

I tought of applying as non rated DEC on 737...but from friends there I heard it is a nightmare ..100 hours , endless duty, dodgy destinations salary get decent with 30 hours overtime but you will die young..

[You rock]

What would a FO save each month after taking into account living expenses in Istanbul.

Have a look to the exchange rate and the development during the last 3 years. For an expat we are talking about 35% salary decrease.

[STEXUP]

Salary is low Istanbul is not cheap...I would say not much if you count in the cost of commuting ( if ever possible) from time to time..probably nothing..

[You rock]

Thanks brother

Appreciate the honesty

Any idea how many days off between flights one would get

Salary is low Istanbul is not cheap...I would say not much if you count in the cost of commuting ( if ever possible) from time to time..probably nothing..

[ExDubai]

As a FO in DXB I was not able to save much. To many expensive distractions. Istanbul isn't cheap, so I would say nothing.

Compare the package with the ME carriers and then make your choice wisely.

[You rock]

I am in the Middle East. Just trying too get family home. I'm only considering TK as a temporary thing. Convert too EASA and give a low cost a crack in Europe. Few investments are working and the missus had a job in Europe. So it's more about the days off and if I could at least save half. At some point you say screw the job family and kids are so much more important


As a FO in DXB I was not able to save much. To many expensive distractions. Istanbul isn't cheap, so I would say nothing.

Compare the package with the ME carriers and then make your choice wisely.

[ExDubai]

I doubt that you'd be able to save half. I don't have the actual TK figures, but I asume that you'll earn much less then in the ME (the exchange rate is the big issue).

At some point you say screw the job family and kids are so much more important WORD!

[TypeIV]

It depends on your lifestyle, if you like spending money on women cars coke and flashy housing, you won't be saving any money.

If you rent a 1+1, use taxi and public transportation or a bike you should be able to save much more than half of it. Going out to eat and drink is cheap compared to Europe. It's about finding a decent housing for a decent cost. Bring electronics from abroad. Taxi is cheap to use but no speaks english.

With a family and commuting, I think it would be difficult to save money. Istanbul is not cheap but it costs only a fraction of what living in the sandpit will set you back at. A decent 1+1 or 1+2 will cost you only 700 euros if you spend some time looking around. Groceries are pretty cheap as well.

However, the rosters are horrible and extremely commuting unfriendly. More than three days abroad per month is not realistic.

[Aviaservice]

It depends on your lifestyle, if you like spending money on women cars coke and flashy housing, you won't be saving any money.
Good point! It relates to all places in the world!

[ExDubai]

The figure I have in mind is around 13.500 TL for an FO per month plus the bonus every 3 Months. That would be around 4.300 € per month plus bonus.

Edit: Taking into account that the Lira might dropp more in the future, and they deduct 5% Tax, Norwegian Long Haul sounds an option for me.

[TypeIV]

With the elections gotten overwith now, chances are that the lira will go the opposite way aswell once the markets will pick up again. However if you have non turkish-speaking children, I wouldn't consider THY as a long term option. Having children going to school there will hurt them in the long run, trying to commute will hurt you in the long run.

The problem with NLH is that after everything is paid for the way it should be, chances are that not much money will be left. Being bonded on a very dodgy contract in a fragile operation is not good if you want peace of mind.

I wouldn't be too creative with the tax setup if spouse and children were depending on me. At least, in THY you know that you will be able to send home a couple of thousand euros every month. Keep in mind that training can take a very long time with reduced salary.

[ExDubai]

@TypIV do you have the actual salary figures for TK? Around 5.000 € minus the tax doesn't sound that good.

Agreed what you mentioned about NLH. Regarding the TL, I'll bet on a future devaluation ;)

[Kapitanleutnant]

Remax...

*Why Turkish?
*Tell us something you don't like about your current airline?
*Why leaving current airline?

Mostly basic interview questions that are not difficult with a bit of preparation. Would also suggest knowing a bit about the company, growth plans aircraft orders etc.

It was the easiest thing for me during the 3 day process, but I was quite prepared.

Good luck.

Kap

[moises.araujom]

Hey guys, kind of new here...

Just wondering what about the conditions for an A330 Senior First Officer?

Type rated and thinking to apply, and commuting.

Thank you in advance

[onehotflyer]

They not really concerned how much experience you have. As long as you a FO then you just a captains B........... and treated like you know nothing.
Horrible mix of military and religion, no communication skills what so ever if they have a problem. They put on a good road show etc but in reality it's the worst place I have even had the misfortune of working.
If you a senior FO in your company just stay there and get a command, you probably won't get one at Turkish.

[psychomantic]

@moises.araujom:

Within Turkish you only have FO's divided in P5, P4 and P3. You will fly about 80-90 hours a month. You can arrange 4 days off at the end of the month and 4 days off at the beginning of the next month, so 8 days in a row.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Remax...

No tech quiz

K

[psychomantic]

Bob777,

So you left THY? Or still working for them?

[psychomantic]

Bob777,

Seen you have removed your previous reaction, I consider you are still working for THY. That must be really sad and pathetic, you must have a terrible, horrible, awful life. If I think the way you leave your home to go to your flight, it must be a disaster for you. You are complaining all the time, but still working in Turkey. As you said, probably you like to be their bitch.

Like you, all the other complaining colleagues, if it's a **** to work for THY, why still there and not somewhere else!?!? You have the experience, so go to another company. If someone left THY and complaining and trying to warn others, I can understand that, and you have the right to warn others, but when you're still working for THY and complaining, you must be a fool

[Commuter0815]

Hey guys, did the Turkish NTR DEC interview 2014.

Agency was horrible prepared, same was Turkish. I had a first interview date, 1(!!) day before leaving they decided to cancel and to shift me back by one week because they had to many candidates they told me.

Ok, off for a good start with this clowns.

1 week later , flight down to IST. Pay taxi by yourself to the hotel(hotel was nice and paid by THY).

Next day to one of their crappy training centers(most likely for turkish standards they are average or even good) doing this group CRM exercises. Nothing special really, just participate but do not try to take over the group. Pretty basic actually, I was surprised how many pilots still don't know how you have to play this BS.

Later that day they do a very rough documents check(I brought all my 12 logbooks, they never touched them). More or less having a look at you license, medical, maybe some reference letter if you have them(I did).

I guess around 50% of us made it on day 1. You get notified by email if you move on.


Day 2, Sim. Was prepared to go on a FFS like all the rated guys did, but then surprisingly they took our NTR bunch to the side and brought us to a conference room.
3 THY guys started to brief us, 3 Minutes later(!!!) we were done and got moved on a FBS(fixed base) which had serious issue. You can say it was a flight training device because it was impossible to trim that thing so it would fly stable for more then 1 second. Of course no autopilot.

So, I was curving my way out of IST(I think, can be as well Ankara, not sure anymore), swimming :E direction some VOR to enter a raw data holding.
Fine so far, but this 3 guys (1 was assisting) talking all the time in Turkish, if you asked for some help or if he should do something he missed it most of the time because he was busy chatting to his mates. Well, at the end I did everything by myself(this guys must be CRM instructors :}), still passed this hell ride with this clowns.

Made my way out of the even scrappier THY Sim center (maybe I am spoiled from European Standards, my bad), grapped a taxi to the hotel and waited for that expected negative email. No, I made it, day 3 is coming (yay).

Last day, chat with the board(3 guys/girls), doing again the ususal board interview why you would join, why leaving your old company(I did ask myself the same question at this stage, honestly :)) and so on.

You pass that then you get offered the THY contract, they ask as well how fast you are able to leave your current employer.

I told them I had to check back with my employer and come back to them.

All in all I can agree with some of the comments above, this airline makes a not very good impression, especially CRM wise and I was actually worried to have some of this "instructors" from my sim ride later on during my linetraining.
Apart from that you have to deal with Istanbul itself and if you bring your family there. I guess some of the Longrange guys got some quiet good offer with better commuting options, but the short range just sucks(A320/B737).

You guessed right, I never joined them and stayed with my current employer. I do not think it is a wise choice to leave a European company to join THY.
Of course if you are unemployed, trying to move up from the ME and being a long range skipper with plenty of experience doing a good deal with them, then THY is an option.

Turkish mentality is very different, even compared to most ME airlines. In the ME you are needed for life(if you can stand it), Turkish is more a Korean type of "gig". They do not really want you there but are depending at the moment on expats. But you see that they always prefer their own people and will most likely try to make it more difficult for you.
A bit behind culture with a airline dominated by former military pilots - the mix makes a nice combination.

To be CLEAR - I did a lot of flights with former european military pilots(French,UK,German,Austrian), most of them nice chaps and a pleasure to fly with. I do not talk about military pilots in general, it just turkish military guys which make(made) me worry and reconsider.

Good luck to anybody who is up for this challenge - I do not envy you.

[ClearedToCrush]

It is interesting to read all these 'horrible' experiences in THY. Please allow me to state a different opinion and describe more pleasant experiences.
For your reference I am not Turkish. Coming in THY was a good experience for me. My previous job was in a north European company and was terrible, not even close to these 'high European standards' .
Starting from the assessment in Turkey I found it very professional. The simulator checking was tough. The instructor was fair in my opinion, he failed the captain who was flying with me.
Flying on the line is a good experience. Most captains are friendly and professional (including the ex military captains), I did not face any problems at all. Occasionally one or two captains were using Turkish language when talking with cabin crews in the aircraft or in the hotel but this did not bother me much.
In general I think the work environment is good and I find Turkish people very warm, friendly and willing to help if you have any problem. If I would think in future to leave for another company it would be only for a quicker command upgrade ( in THY upgrade can take long time) or a higher salary, otherwise there is no reason for me to consider leaving.

[bob777]

I don't know what happened to my post my dear Psycho and I cannot give less than a **** what you consider.
Clearedtocrush looking at your profile..I even doubt you are even working or ever worked in THY as you you are trying to join... Lionair..go figure:ok:

[psychomantic]

Lolo75020,

The CEO and other 'high' managers, they like you and all the other expats, but your local colleague on the left and maybe the local FO's don't really like you, ever thought why?

[furbpilot]

Psychomantic how the hell do you know what the high management thinks? What I personally can say is that if there will not be a change of pace THY will end up with plane parked... Anyone I know very pissed off..many are on the way out or planning it..Something is wrong somewhere..that is evident to all but apparently not to the Turks themselves.

[psychomantic]

Believe me, I know more than you think. They need to change, they have to, it will be a benefit for all (locals/expats), otherwise they will be in a f*cked up position.

[psychomantic]

Dear Lolo75020,

I totally agree with you. Still the same issues for the whole pilots. We had this meeting with the CEO too, but at the end they didn't give us A777 model :(

Things I want to add:
- why not salary in dollars or euros. We have to pay the tickets in dollars, but our salary is in TL. The TL also lost his value, so we have less euros. There are couple of airliners who are paying in euros, why not THY? And the ME is paying in dollars and we earn less comparing to them.
- also business seats for FO's when the seats are not occupied: he said "be happy that we offer you cheap tickets"
- the locals/Turkish pilots they don't have ID-90 tickets, only the expats. Locals have only unlimited CED tickets. Also the managment is making difference between locals/expats. I think you have to offer all the pilots the same conditions, no difference. What they actually doing is split the pilots. A really bad issue

The roster on the A330 is I think good, comparing to the 737. I have at the moment every month overtime. But I think also on the A330 no opportunities for commuting. During my times on the A320 I was flying 60-70 hours, and now around 90 hours. Not a problem for me, because the destinations for the A330 are good, my opinion, comparing to the narrow body, especially the 737 fleet. And overtime is more salary.

But once again, all these issues/subjects needs attention. They have to listen to the pilots, our wishes. On the other hand I hope a lot of guys to leave THY so that they have to change all these things and they realize they don't have a choice. But..... still no change

[furbpilot]

What I can see is that the pilot community has been misrepresented during this meetings.

[de facto]

Everyday or almost everyday, the local go home, I don't. I stay alone here in Istanbul. Why I should pay 300€ the ticket, with aditional fees (transport to/from airport) to go home when it is free for locals !


What a bunch of crying babies you all are.No wonder they dont upgrade you.
I didnt get a plastic 777 model,boohoo!

[furbpilot]

What a bunch of crying babies you all are.No wonder they dont upgrade you.
I didnt get a plastic 777 model,boohoo!
De Facto..you are right still they went through a screening didn't they? On the other end it would be so easy to take a few right initiatives to attract the right candidates.

[bob777]

I just wonder with all the recruitment going on everywhere how can't you find another job dear Lolo. Emirates Qatar Etihad Ryanair Easy Jet and many other operators are looking for pilots..desperately.
If you compare the package of other ME operator THY does not really seems to be in anyway attractive.

Gulf Airline X VS Turkish Airlines

Salary 8000 USD VS 6000 USD

Benefits Housing, Education End of service VS NIL

Leave 42 VS 20

Upgrade Seniority from day 1 VS playing games

Commute business VS no commute economy
block days off

Rostering acceptable to good VS disaster on NB getting such on WB

I think the point is THY is not a an Airline for expatriate. The "ideology" behind make it just a short time stepping stone to somewhere else. On the other end they send email asking pilot to tell their friends to join. I really don't think so.

[Commuter0815]

Well written bob777

Not to forget the unpredictable development of the turkish lira.

Most ME currencies are on a fixed exchange rate to the USD which is an additional safety net in salary points of view.

[bob777]

Many young Turkish national captains and FO on the go and that says it all !! Why anyone would leave is home based growing national carrier if not if something dramatically wrong is going on? The outdated hyperconservative and ideologically biased 'squadron" mentality will bring this company to ruin.:ok:

[Lolo75020]

I just wonder with all the recruitment going on everywhere how can't you find another job dear Lolo. Emirates Qatar Etihad Ryanair Easy Jet and many other operators are looking for pilots..desperately.
If you compare the package of other ME operator THY does not really seems to be in anyway attractive.

Gulf Airline X VS Turkish Airlines

Salary 8000 USD VS 6000 USD

Benefits Housing, Education End of service VS NIL

Leave 42 VS 20

Upgrade Seniority from day 1 VS playing games

Commute business VS no commute economy
block days off

Rostering acceptable to good VS disaster on NB getting such on WB

I think the point is THY is not a an Airline for expatriate. The "ideology" behind make it just a short time stepping stone to somewhere else. On the other end they send email asking pilot to tell their friends to join. I really don't think so.

Dear Bob777,

My priority now is to find a job the closest as possible from my home. So I even didnt try to attempt the gulf sisters. Moreover the upgrade time is hazardous as far as I heard. Nobody has the same answer at this question.

Remaining the companies in Europe. At the moment only the lowcost are a good deal if I consider the compromise between europe location and upgrade time. I am at the stage that I dont card the salary anymore. The quality of life is much more important.

And finally, I didnt say that I couldn't find anything. I am indeed in the pool for 2 companies. ;) so wait and see. If it doesnt work I will stay in THY.

[ExDubai]

I think the point isTHY is not a an Airline for expatriate. The "ideology" behind make it just a short time stepping stone to somewhere else. On the other end they send email asking pilot to tell their friends to join. I really don't think so.
And that's the point. Either they recognize that they need a certain amount of expats or their strategy will fail. If a company need expats they have to treat them somehow different. That's the way how the expatbusiness is working.

[furbpilot]

Am I right in thinking expats are much cheaper than locals to the company, because Turkish companies pay the same NET (after tax) pay to both expats and locals -

BUT the TAX they pay on behalf of the local pilot is much much higher (about 5%-10% for the expat, 30-40% for the local)? - So the GROSS cost of the local is much higher.

In most countries, pilots are paid the same GROSS salary, (not the same Net salary). If Turkish paid the same gross pay to expats, as they do to locals, it would be more competitive. It is disingenuous of the locals to complain that expats get a better deal, because the opposite is true - In reality the expat's pre-tax pay is far lower.

As an retiring expat, just try and claim your Turkish state pension for example, and see how far you get!

Taxation is the same. The difference is that as an expat you might have to pay the difference between taxation in Turkey (5%) and in your own country. You can recover your paid contribution quite easily if you don't reach minimum years for pension payment..just to be factual.

[onehotflyer]

lol. If the CEO had asked me for lunch and given me the chance to say what is wrong I think I could have thought of a few much more serious issues than not commuting in business. I may have told him to work his model plane up his ass at the same time. When I was in the process of being dismissed and they would not give me a reason or respond to me, out of desperation I emailed him to try get an answer but he did not respond either, just like all the other managers I emailed and tried to see. I think it must be their policy to not communicate. To make matters worse they now want me to pay €9000 for training costs after I already paid nearly €25000 getting myself rated on type. The few sim sessions I had with them were conducted by some 70 year old guy that had never even flown B777 and he did not even know their latest procedures. Still no reason why my contract was terminated and good luck to them getting a cent out of me.

[TypeIV]

But the money the company pays to the government is much higher on behalf of the local (~35%), than for the expat (~5%)

Most of the salary for the locals is technically a flight compensation, pretty much tax-free hence a small difference in costs. Insuring, getting a working permit for, training and paperwork handling for a expat pilot is more costly.

Reclaiming your pension fund is a pretty easy thing to pull off. If you've worked for a couple of years in Turkey, you might be able to reclaim quite a nice little sum of money.

And for the people crying for an upgrade on a flag carrier as if it was something they were entitled to automatically after only a few years in the company, I'm speechless. The market is relatively good at the moment for experienced pilots and will by the looks of it turn down soon. Vote with your feet or be a man and suck it up.

It's business after all and not about babypowdering bums just because you have a license. Remember that a teacher, engineer, doctor, technician, crew planner etc in Turkey typically makes less than 15-20% of what a first officer at THY makes. The business ticket is something that the union managed to get through against the will of the management.

[furbpilot]

TypeIV..I think there is an underlying misunderstanding.
THY should have offered a deal the like of Korean a temporary contract clearly stating that there was no upgrade options for FO but paying a substantially higher salary and offering the same Koran perks ( hotel, commuting etc). Up to the market to accept it or not.They did not. Now if you offer me a local contract I deserve the same opportunity and If you hired me "permanently" without a degree you cannot ask for one for upgrade or I might think you are just playing around to save some cash. Nobody I think is crying for the upgrade itself.. but when you see others upgrading junior to you than you are entitled to be rightfully pissed off. You see air force guy bypassing everybody upgrading after two years. This is crazy. Even American Airlines ex air force pilots join a common seniority and wait 15 years to become captains Flying a modern commercial airlines has nothing to do with guts, but more with common sense, critical attitude CRM, language and technical skills which are often an oxymoron of military mentality ( and may be even more in Turkey) which is more blind obedience, guts, mission oriented and viewed with some form of ideological imprinting. The results are evident but nothing has changed so far.
Furthermore I don't really think anybody cares what the salaries of other profession are in Turkey as we tend to look at other airlines to compare our treatment not to the social dynamics of Turkey which are not really of our interest.:rolleyes:

[TypeIV]

It has been obvious since the beginning that the recruitment of expats only is a quick fix. The CEO has publicly apologized for having to recruit yobancis and said that he is forced to do so due to demand and inabilty to find locals. Some agencies have made some promises, but if you are able to get the big picture (which is essential for a leader, like a captain) you knew from day one that an upgrade most probably wouldn't be a reality unless miracles happen.

The locals are in Turkish for a long term career while we yobancis use it as a stepping stone to put food on the table and to see our families three days a month, not caring about what is happening in the country as you say.
Therefor I understand that they rather invest in their locals when possible rather than investing in someone who won't be seen once the 1500 hours are in the book, or once the market in their home country picks up.

With the CRM and culture, I do agree but with the newer generation, I feel that there's an overall change taking place towards more modern and sensible attitudes.

My point is that: Even though we might see it as unfair, the rules were very clear before joining and we'll have to vote with our feet or suck it up. As I mentioned, an FO in THY makes five times of what hard working academics do, for this reason whining and moaning won't gain any sympathy.

[furbpilot]

It has been obvious since the beginning that the recruitment of expats only is a quick fix. The CEO has publicly apologized for having to recruit yobancis and said that he is forced to do so due to demand and inabilty to find locals. Some agencies have made some promises, but if you are able to get the big picture (which is essential for a leader, like a captain) you knew from day one that an upgrade most probably wouldn't be a reality unless miracles happen.

The locals are in Turkish for a long term career while we yobancis use it as a stepping stone to put food on the table and to see our families three days a month, not caring about what is happening in the country as you say.
Therefor I understand that they rather invest in their locals when possible rather than investing in someone who won't be seen once the 1500 hours are in the book, or once the market in their home country picks up.

With the CRM and culture, I do agree but with the newer generation, I feel that there's an overall change taking place towards more modern and sensible attitudes.

My point is that: Even though we might see it as unfair, the rules were very clear before joining and we'll have to vote with our feet or suck it up. As I mentioned, an FO in THY makes five times of what hard working academics do, for this reason whining and moaning won't gain any sympathy.

My dear friend the rules were not very clear...quite the opposite. Many discovered the truth once they resigned from previous employer, turned down other offers, and came to Istanbul. It's up to THY to make of this a long term commitment and it does not seem to be any intention beside the " proclamas" of brotherhood and family... As you said..suck it up or go..well..I hear many ( not only FOs) are taking or about to take the second option will leave the heroic task to the locals and seek to go back to some form of life...

[Alloy]

Interesting comments above, I'm very glad that I made one of my better career decisions, having gone for interview with this mob, I decided to run a mile!

[cucuotto]

Friend of mine did not trust this forum...joined non rated ...already applied to FZ. He told me hell is more appealing than THY narrow body.. he still cannot believe it.

[bluebird1]

Hi...can anyone guide me for the screening process for turkish airline?

[tomuchwork]

I did a interview once with them, must be 2 years ago. Did not like it an refused.

Got recently an email from some Muhammed(seriously) to send them again an application. :E

Prefer to stay in real europe. There is no way me moving down(again).

BUT - for anyone who cares, they "streamlined" the recruiting process now(at least the email says that).

Before it was longer, now it is down to 3 days:


Day1: Welcome Briefing, Group Assessment(i am soooo tired of this BS), ICAO English Assessment, Document Check and Sim Brief(good, they changed that now, the old Sim Brief was crap and was more or less - ok, lets fly)

Day2: Sim, Panel Interview

Day3: Medical

Good Luck! If you are single or do not plan to bring the family(from Europe, from somewhere else it might be maybe an upgrade, don't know) it might be ok.

[Fluke]

Just to throw a little more oil on the kebab, word is coming through (employment agencies) that there is a total ban by the Chinese government on employment of any pilot (foreign or Turkish) currently flying with any Turkish airline. Air China , China Southern, China Eastern ect. will be off limits to any pilot wanting to get out of Turkey and work in China. No idea what has triggered this or how it can be resolved?

[twentyyearstoolate]

Fluke, correct.

Makes no sense at all, but must be Politics at the upper level. Turkish Airlines must be happy that they'll never lose any pilots to any high paying jobs in China!

[Wisepilot]

Blue bird...do you have an EASA license..cause soon you will need one to work in Turkey...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Why will pilots need one in Turkey soon?

[Wisepilot]

Hmmm...let me se...may be because the latest 1st of January 2019 (probably for FCL much earlier.. ) Turkey will be fully EASA ?

[airport30]

I think Turkish Airlines has renewed its pilot recruitment rules.They made a newannouncement for captains and first officers

THY KOKPÝTTE YENÝ KRÝTERLER (http://airkule.com/haber/THY-KOKPITTE-YENI-KRITERLER/23446)

Turkish Airlines - Announcement - turkishairlines.com (http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-tr/corporate/announcements/announcement/to-the-attention-of-applicant-captains-and-first-officers)

[Kapitanleutnant]

LMAO...

3 years is "soon"??? Wow, do we have a different view of the word... "soon". LOL

[Wisepilot]

Capt..2019 to be fully compliant but it will happen gradually. EASA license was already a requirement before and in fact they terminated people for not having one few years ago. Than they dropped it for lack of applicants but soon to will back in force

[safelife]

The rumour of China not taking ex Turkish pilots must me untrue.
My carrier (HNA group) just hired one couple of days ago.

[de facto]

Correct,there is some local lobbying going down there;-)
By the way are they turkish nationals or non turks who came from Turkish airlines?

[twentyyearstoolate]

Safelife, I've sent you a PM. Hopefully some sensibility has emerged down there!

As an addition, I also passed but it was the "background check" after being successful. Have they passed that too? That is where the block is.

[Range73]

Just to clarify on this issue:

In THY you are respected as Yabanci as much as Turkish colleagues. Even Greek pilots (former nation rivals) are treated as any other and receive upgrades. All goes well if you can accept that you are a guest of their country everything is fine (this goes for most expat places), it is just your mindset. If your ego likes to tell people that you have come to show them how it is done you will run into problems, like any other company. Politeness is very important in the Turkish culture, this feels comfortable if you understand politeness.

The offer that they make consists of a possibility to live in a European country close to home, if you prefer the real middle east for more finances, it is your personal choice. Nobody is forcing you. Many Yanbanci's have worked there long term, I have not noticed any sort of (systematic) discrimination. Of Course you might run into locals that are easier going than others, as goes for other expats as well. The companies main goal is to improve the safety record for their growing World brand, CRM and basic skills are monitored very closely. The background check is extremely thorough, avoiding pilots with bad records, or that try to make shortcuts on experience. It requires patience sometimes; however, if you are legit it should not be a problem.

The place feels pleasant like an Italian city, although slightly different. Of course you have to find out about the nice places. Trust me plenty, the place is rich of culture and history. In short, you can have a good time here. No you will not become financially independent within a few years. Pay is very good and certainly a lot better because of taxes in comparison to Europe.

[Wisepilot]

Range so you are telling us that if we are good boy you treat us almost as Turks . You also say that our input to improve things ( and many need improvement) is not required but at the same time you say safety is THY first goal which is a contradiction in terms unless you think THY is the best which I can tell you is not... Turkish culture is sure nice and interesting but may we suggest that you leave it out of the cockpit? Looking at the safety record does not seem so compatible with safety doesn't it? Salary is the lowest in the region and Istanbul is not Europe de ffacto. Looks like in Turkey you managed to set up the worst conditions..lower salary outrageous rosters if compared to European similar carriers and no benefits if compared to the ME ones plus this silly attitude of willing to impose on expatriate pilot local traditions. Do you know that this does not happen anywhere in Europe..as you seem to locate your self in such " framework".. Respect is something we should not even discuss but it's a two way process. The first expat were upgraded after many years of ban and not before a lot of rumor was done here and still expat are being bypassed for upgrade and LH fleet.The number of expat departing shows that something is wrong..sorry

[flaps35]

Except the requirements,mentioned above,you have to pass DLR test,English test and sim test.I am also turkish and this reqruitment policiy of Turkish Airlines is ridiculous because they need a lot of pilots but you need University,age limit Dlr test,1500 hours ,TOEFL,Sim ass.Psy.test,etc etc.:=
And living in Istanbul is not easy and cheap.


Greetings/selamlar

[noID]

Management just sent us some days ago an email about a feedback on what they could do better and what should be done at first hand...i suggest to tell what he/she thinks, things can change in THY and they are changing, just it takes some time..

[Range73]

A lot of negative replies, do with the info what you like. I am not Turkish; however, I certainly do not recognize the extreme situation as described. Also I am not joining myself into primary forum bashing of opinions you don't like or agree with. Just informing another view on the matter, if you don't like the picture please don't come. I do not feel ashamed in liking Istanbul and the people. Expats come and go like any other expat place.

De Facto the Bosporus is the devision between Europe and Asia, and Ataturk is on the European side, therefore it is and has been European for decades...it was formerly called Constantinople for centuries, named after the Roman Emperor Constantine.... No it is not the EU. Also since THY tries to implement a better safety culture, there is not a lot wrong with that. Many companies have undergone such a transformation. The story is per above, pay is okay since the 5% overall tax gives a good salary without being in the cooking desert or the smog of Asia, and schedules are not outrages like Emirates. But if you say the opposite to all and everything, who am I to argue?

[Wisepilot]

Range..the way THY has behaved is not really what you would expect in Europe...I could list a number of episodes of plain discrimination. It all comes down to where you come from. Beware mentioning Constantinople..or Byzantium..😃😃

[Lolo75020]

Range73, for how long have you been staying in Thy ?

Which fleet do you fly on and do you commute ?

Personnaly I gave up and left 3 weeks ago...

[Range73]

Perhaps I just see thinks different guys.

[Mili86]

Hello guys,
Regarding THY non-rated FO , could somebody pls tell me whether its better to directly apply from THY website ? Or via an agency?? All in all what is the advantages and benefits to apply via agencies? What kind of services do they offer ?
Any idea?

Thanks a alot

[ERLIN 3]

Is there any more news regarding a possible B747-8 order? I'm currently a 777 Captain for a company in the gulf. I've been looking at Turkish for a while. If this Boeing order goes through, I will definitely be ready to move to Istanbul.

[psychomantic]

Is there any more news regarding a possible B747-8 order? I'm currently a 777 Captain for a company in the gulf. I've been looking at Turkish for a while. If this Boeing order goes through, I will definitely be ready to move to Istanbul.

We don't know anything about 747 orders? Your source? You hear a lot: b787, a380, a350.

[Boeinglad]

Just wondering if it is true that B737 expacts Capt can move to widebody after 2/3 years?! Just received an email advertising this.
At the moment I'm home and reasonably happy with major LCC in Europe.
Goodluck to everyone

B.

[STEXUP]

Not true..expat ( not expacts my dear..yabanci I you likewise) are regularly bypassed in seniority...i believe only a bunch has upgraded..after 6 years...not that long haul is any better nowadays. In the second quarter rumors are that loads are nose-diving...nothing good on the horizon for Turkey and the " best" " European" airline...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Rumours I keep hearing are 40 787's with some being the -1000 size.

Maybe to be announced during Air Show this summer?

K

[Boeinglad]

always good learning.. Expact.. Thks

[italian stallion]

Anyone on here that actually flies for Turkish, preferably on 738, that can PM me please. ..looking for any information you have on conditions etc and possibly information on the assessment. I have an assessment there next week.
Many thanks

[STEXUP]

May I suggest you stay well clear. Really.. think twice or three times. THY is not good..THY 737 is a nightmare.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

They do seem to be bending a lot of aircraft regularly. :yuk:

THY B738 at Mogadishu on Aug 19th 2011, wing damage on landing
Turkish Airlines A313 at Casablanca on Oct 31st 2010, temporary runway excursion
Turkish Airlines A343 at Brussels on Oct 24th 2010, engine pod strikes
Turkish Airlines B738 at Istanbul on Jun 8th 2010, blown nose gear tyre on landing
Turkish Airlines B738 at Zurich on Mar 21st 2010, tail strike on takeoff
Turkish Airlines A320 at Istanbul on Nov 4th 2009, lost engine cowling on takeoff
Turkish Airlines B738 at Amsterdam on Feb 25th 2009, crashed on a field
THY B738 at Istanbul on Dec 31st 2014, tail strike indication
THY B738 at Novosibirsk on Nov 24th 2014, burst tyre on landing
THY A333 at Istanbul on Aug 3rd 2014, tower observed flames from engine
THY B738 at Istanbul on May 4th 2014, tail scrape on departure
THY B738 at Bodrum on Mar 13th 2014, landed on taxiway
THY A332 at Istanbul on Dec 29th 2013, rejected takeoff
THY B773 at Toronto on Oct 8th 2013, runway incursion
THY B739 at Istanbul on Jun 3rd 2013, suspected tail scrape on takeoff
THY A343 at Mumbai on Sep 2nd 2011, runway excursion
THY A321 at Tbilisi on May 5th 2016, hard landing
THY B738 at Pristina on May 2nd 2016, runway excursion on landing
THY A343 at Antananarivo on Jan 9th 2016, touched down short of runway
THY B738 at Istanbul on Dec 3rd 2015, dog strike
THY A333 at Kathmandu on Mar 4th 2015, runway excursion and nose gear collapse
THY B738 at Birmingham on Oct 24th 2015, tail strike indication
THY B738 at Sarajevo on Jun 3rd 2015, burst two main tyres on landing
THY A321 near Sofia on Jun 3rd 2015, smoke detector indication
THY A320 at Istanbul on Apr 25th 2015, hard landing, go-around, engine problem, gear problem, gear collapse, runway excursion
THY B738 at Dusseldorf on Dec 29th 2014, tail strike indication

What a record to be proud of.

[de facto]

THY B738 at Istanbul on Dec 3rd 2015, dog strike
Damn pilots,they should have known better..
THY A332 at Istanbul on Dec 29th 2013, rejected takeoff
And yet again..
THY A321 near Sofia on Jun 3rd 2015, smoke detector indication
Unbelievable these pilots.

Other than that,a few serious incidents which require obvious detailed emphasis on training issues and possibly CRM.

[HERC]

Greetings

Can someone working for THY PM A330 roster.

Thanks in Advance

[Mili86]

For the FO roster,and pay, pls be kind and PM me too...tnx guys;)
eighter A330 or B777 ....

[dieana]

Hi Folks,

Can anybody flying for THY to share a B737 roster, send me a PM, thanks in advance.

[too_much]

Beware of joining Turkish, I have a friend there whom says on 75% of flights the PIC CRM is poor and that on PF sectors PIC are questioning everything that is being done and not letting him fly the way he feels comfortable with.

Clear CRM issues from local captains and making FO feel useless and hopeless

After several months of this he finally just left one day with no job to go to.

Nothing wrong with my buddy confident operator and very friendly guy to get along with.

Just as a warning for potential FO joiners.

[han.solo]

I have a friend who didn't do too well at Turkish. Now he goes around saying 75% of flights the PIC CRM is poor and that on PF sectors PIC are questioning everything that is being done and not letting him fly the way he feels comfortable with.

He says that there is a clear CRM issue from local captains and making FO feel useless and hopeless.

After several months of this he was finally let go with no job to go to.

He's friendly guy to get along with.

But he goes around warning potential FO joiners not to join saying this is what happened to a buddy of his....I think that's too much

[cucuotto]

Ahahah..you need some work on your language skills while 70% of Turkish pilots cannot read and understand your post... Stay well clear..you have. been warned...

[Mili86]

Hi guys,
In FAQ section of THY website , among required documents for screening it says a reference letter on prev. Employer letterhead ..
Guys who have gone through the screening , could you pls specify whats kind of letter is that? What should be mentioned on that letter?
and is it strictly required for screening?
I dont mind any PMs...
Thanks guys..

[South Prince]

You may freely comment on the following:

If you want to involved and benefit from the new Collective Work Agreement , you have to become a member of the union. If you’re not member
of the xxxxxx bbb union, you will not benefit benefit from the new CWA that will be signed.
If you become member of our union, there will be a reduction in taxes that you are paying.

[STEXUP]

Comments..?? Horrible grammar as usual.

[cucuotto]

Former...a real shame it could be a good job but they manage to make it unsustainable..some did not last more than few months. Horrible rosters ( fly sleep fly sleep in particular 737 PIC absolutely unsurvivable) politics a peculiar working environment and no commuting turns it on one of the worse. Only acceptable 777/330 PIC for those escaping the heat and living in EU. English a requirement on paper..like many others ..just box ticking. Many doubted..and found out for themselves. I hear no sign of improvements.

[cucuotto]

Well..if you are Turkish you are on the wrong forum even more if you are perspective cadet. As far as I remember they hold your balls for 11 years in which you will pay back ..so not really free of charge...I would still think twice..in a few year's you might regret..this profession is vastly finished. Nevertheless sure you will substantially raise the average level..starting with English language skills.

[cucuotto]

Dreams can turn into nightmares..beware.

[Mili86]

Also don't get me wrong I've been and still am trying to be nice but this statement was a little "too low-terrain!"

Thats right....I think cucuotto is being too negative and too pessimistic and is also trying to change everybody's mind against THY.....

[kumul1]

Well there you go.
Ignore the Cockatoo's constant squawk, go and listen to the Turkeys gobble and if it doesn't ruffle your feathers, fly with it.

[STEXUP]

I think there is no need for cucuotto to change anybody 's mind. Speak with any expat and you'll see he is not even the more pessimist or negative. The company posted a massive loss in first quarter if the trend does not change ( and seen the geopolitical situation I cannot see how it could) I think we will be discussing of something else in the mid term future..

[dieana]

Hi guys

Anybody in THY flying in the B737NG can share the roster with me?
Send me a PM

Thanks a lot

[Wisepilot]

What seat? Left..unsurvivable 95/102 hours..lot of night turns to Iraq Iran Gulf..loads of domestic 4 sectors some EU no layovers 8 days off.. flying with no time for other than sleeping eating..sometimes not even that, minimum rest in and out of base, split duty, hours long transfer to SAW and back..need to be pretty desperate..not many lasting. Right seat same with less hours..blanks filled with home stby or reserve. Commuting virtually impossible.

[dignified]

Anyone have any experience flying for them and/or living in Turkey?

Enough is being said in Europe about Erdogan, from Hamburgers being sold under his name, to comedians being suppressed into satirical comments about this moron who runs that nation; for the record:

THY is a replica of the Turkish government
THY does not recruit Kurdish citizens for their vacancies.
THY pays in devaluated, unstable Turkish Liras, and wouldn't compensate any currency loss.
THY and its management is sensitive and prejudiced about foreigners comments into their political system
THY president and CEO is a puppeteer of the Turkish government, they brag about obeying Islamic law, but there is nothing more hypocritical than that on any Turkish citizen, watch RT television about Turkish dealings with ISIS in Syria, they are contaminated, as their wicked spirit.
THY has surpassed 300 aircraft, they brag about a new airport and English level 5 for recruitment; You will be surprised to find a crippled management who cannot reach English level 2.
Check PPRUNE on comments about former pilots who present work and worked for that outfit, make sure you do not out this airline in your resume, apathy and dismay, the traits of a wicked society under siege by a regimental system that supresses the freedom of speech.

Incidentally THY pay scales stink, compare with professional outfits in the Middle East, India or China, they double your salary and benefits, and :eek:provide a more pleasant lifestyle.

[psychomantic]

Enough is being said in Europe about Erdogan, from Hamburgers being sold under his name, to comedians being suppressed into satirical comments about this moron who runs that nation; for the record:

THY is a replica of the Turkish government
THY does not recruit Kurdish citizens for their vacancies.
THY pays in devaluated, unstable Turkish Liras, and wouldn't compensate any currency loss.
THY and its management is sensitive and prejudiced about foreigners comments into their political system
THY president and CEO is a puppeteer of the Turkish government, they brag about obeying Islamic law, but there is nothing more hypocritical than that on any Turkish citizen, watch RT television about Turkish dealings with ISIS in Syria, they are contaminated, as their wicked spirit.
THY has surpassed 300 aircraft, they brag about a new airport and English level 5 for recruitment; You will be surprised to find a crippled management who cannot reach English level 2.
Check PPRUNE on comments about former pilots who present work and worked for that outfit, make sure you do not out this airline in your resume, apathy and dismay, the traits of a wicked society under siege by a regimental system that supresses the freedom of speech.

Incidentally THY pay scales stink, compare with professional outfits in the Middle East, India or China, they double your salary and benefits, and :eek:provide a more pleasant lifestyle.

It looks like THY has used you like an engine: drained you, squeezed you, bang and blow everything out of you. You look more like a politician than a pilot.

[TypeIV]

THY does not recruit Kurdish citizens for their vacancies

Absolute rubbish

Since there is no country called Kurdistan, naturally, employing people who have such a passport will be very difficult. If you mean kurdish people you are wrong. Many pilots in TK are kurds and several are or have been occupying management positions.

[Wisepilot]

TypeIV...are you really really sure about that?

[psychomantic]

@wisepilot: I do confirm. I know a lot pilots, cabin crewmembers, flying chefs, technicians, managers, office workers, other groundstaff with Kurdish roots.

@dignified: I'm just wondering what kind of association you have with Kurdish people, or in general. I think you don't have any clue. Just do better research

[foswillruletheworld]

@dignified
Many right comments about so many things except the Kurdish thing.
There is not a country called Kurdistan, so you cannot hold a passport which is assigned to Kurdish people. Kurdish is not an official country(yet) but just a race.
There are minimum 10 million Kurdish who are living within the borders of Republic of Turkey. All of them have got Turkish national identification and Turkish passports(of course people who hasn't applied for a passport doesn't have one)
Since your race is not written on neither of them, you cannot identify a Kurdish. There are so many of them married and having kids with other races living in Turkish Republic that you cannot even imagine.
60-70% of the parliament of the Republic of Turkey is Kurdish race somehow(either son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of a Kurd). 19th prime minister ,then 8th president of Turkish Republic is Kurdish(look him up: Turgut Ozal). Under these circumstances it is clearly impossible to ignore or not recruit a Kurd in this region.
There are many military pilots in the Turkish Air Force whose mother or father is Kurdish, after retiring they go to Turkish Airlines and other companies in Turkey. Have flown with a lot of them and they are in general kind and professional.
I strongly suggest that you get your facts straight and do not rely on what other people tell you since you are one click away from Google. Other things you say are mostly true but this racist comment you did really irritated me, with many other people in this forum.
We have got bunch of cabin crew in all of the airline companies in Turkey, coming from Diyarbakir. This is a city where Kurdish population is more than 50% of the total population. I think the last number was around 70%.
I hope you apologize after reading this post and make your research for that racist comment of yours.

[STEXUP]

FOs. your is one of the best self analyses ever. I would summarize generally nice people with an horrible management and this both for the country and THY. You should react.. Kurds are like Basque in Spain many other minorities across EU..give them a bit of autonomy problem solved. The doubt is that this problem is most probably filling the pockets of someone son in law defense industrialist anyone ?

[TypeIV]

No one wants to give away 25-30% of their land just like that, hence the interest conflict.

Claiming that kurds are discriminated is nonsense. There is no problem as long as you aren't convicted of certain crimes. I understand some of the guys frustration about TK but let's keep the accusations a little bit more sensible or your demagogy will be hard to be taken seriously.

[foswillruletheworld]

Sorry guys i think i am misunderstood.
I am not talking politics now. My point was to get the facts straight and do not get into politics at all on a pilot forum. I thought it is a pilot forum, isn't it?
Basque is something different. They didn't kill thir own people to get their support against the government, so that is an entirely different subject...

[CAP B767]

Please, what is the monthly pay for a Captain B777, and how much cost to rent a 1 bedroom apartment.

[Mili86]

B777 salary for capts are about 38000T.L (averg.) before tax (5%)..
A nice 1bedroom apartment in a nice neighborhood should not normally exceed 3000T.L (avg. 2300TL)

[Kapitanleutnant]

27,000 Lira/month

apartment range for 1 bedroom 2000-3000/month depending on location

[Boeingrestricted]

@ Wisepilot,



:)

[Boeingrestricted]

I really try to post it upright
336

[de facto]

Having flown and lived in all continents,I can say that Turks have been the kindest people I have ever met.
On a side note,the few daddy kids in here,puking their blatent racism in a constent and repetitive manner,aimed to comfort themselves that their dream carreer attempt simply failed,is not reflective of expat pilots.
Expat work is not for everyone,and one to succeed needs to grow a pair and take it upon himself rather than crying the daddy golden spoon hasnt followed them there as well.

[Mili86]

Well, I said according to THY website,
It seems THYhas recently increased the salaries ... They say avg. wide body capt pay is around 38000TL

[CAP B767]

So, to be clear the gross pay for a wide captain is 38000 TL with the last update minus 5% taxes.
Thank you guys for the information. And another question:
QATAR or THY DEC B777? Advise please.
CAP B767

[twentyyearstoolate]

The average quoted of 38000 Lira is on the high side. I think they're throwing overtime in there.

Last month I got just under 30000 Lira. Then there's a 3 monthly bonus, so average maybe around 34000 lira per month.

On top of that you get Hotel Accommodation in Istanbul, or a 2000 Lira allowance. This allowance was the same 7 years ago, and gave you "reasonable" options for an apartment. However, as the average apartment increases rent 10% each year, the allowance now will get you very little in a crappy area, unless of course you want to dip into your own large salary :}

Very low when you consider the extremely volatile currency. What you join on may be very very different a year later in your home currency.

[Mili86]

Hi,
Anybody gone for screening recently?? Any info is appreciated. Tnx in advance and feel free to pm me

[Wisepilot]

De Facto..thanks god we have skygods like you showing us the way. But be honest..777/330 is a different airline..you got the sweet deal with commuting, extra money hotel accommodation. Narrow body is the aviation equivalent of sweat shop. It's not a matter of kindness or racism.
its just like that.

[hammock]

Hi all,

I'm interested to join THY as FO. Can anyone be kind to PM me the A330/B777 FO salary and roster ?

Appreciate. Thanks

[bob777]

Do you have an EASA license? You have to understand that it will become essential as Turkey is in the process of getting into it. Just to let you know a few years back pilot were given very short notice to get one and terminated for not being able to comply....a la turca! :)

[hammock]

@bob777,

Hmmm... I don't have EASA licence😓 I guess it's gonna be tough for me to secure a job in Turkish then!!

[bob777]

You can probably get a job..but you will soon need an EASA license.

[Mili86]

bob777 You can probably get a job..but you will soon need an EASA license.

Hi,
Seems u r right...but im a bit confused, they are accepting ICAO as well, so someone applies FO - NTR with ICAO cpl(like me) .... Then they will send us for type training....here is the question, to fly the THY we need TURKISH CPL, so are they going to convert our CPL to TURKISH(ICAO) CPL, AND then endorse the new rating on it???? Or first they ask us to convert to TURKISH or JAR/EASA ?

I'm a bit confused about the proccess.....any idea?

[Boeing737_IL]

What are you talking about ? TK gonna be EASA ? never

[Mili86]

Boeing737_IL
EASA
What are you talking about ? TK gonna be EASA ? never


Yes, EASA is supposed for EU members only,
But it seems they have forced many pilots to obtain a JAR or EASA or anything european :-)) by a deadline, otherwise THY will terminate the contract.

[italian stallion]

I've just had an assessment there and no mention ever that I have to convert my ICAO to EASA. .
And talking to the local crew before it happens you'll probably be up for retirement by then....

[bob777]

January 2018 THY will have to be fully EASA compliant. OPS manual already EASA OPS , TRTO in the process of being approved you will definitely need an EASA license within 24/36 months. Italian stallion... if you believe what they tell you at the screening you must have a lot of testosterone but not much of a brain. HR has been constantly lying for years now...they have no ethics they'll tell you anything to fill seats...and make the boss happy..

[Kapitanleutnant]

Bob...

Emirates (and I believe the other ME carriers) is supposed to also be EASA compliant at some date (forget when) but they are not required to get EASA licensing. Why is Turkish different?

Are the current group of DGCA licensed pilots at TK licensed by EASA or will they all have to convert?

K

[bob777]

THY up to not long ago accepted only EASA licensed. Later seen the lack of candidates due to the horrible reputation in dealing with expatriate pilot..they re opened to ICAO. Turks are about to get Visa free travel and to have re opened a few chapters for EU accession. ..UAE is not. Many already went trough the 17 exams and SIM check...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Just getting travel visa's will not be a reason for THY to require EASA. With the current political situation, a good number of European Union countries are not willing to let Turkey into the Union at this point, so again I can't see THY requiring an EASA license. In an environment of supply and demand, the demand for qualified pilots is pretty high all around the world and changing this within 18 months would devastate THY's growth to 450 aircraft.

Also, the last time THY started to required the EASA license, as I understand it, they rescinded that requirement just before it actually started but not before many of the expats left for other positions. So that was not coming from the EASA authorities or else it would have indeed become a permanent fixture and future requirement for every pilot coming to THY. I do not have an EASA license after being hired last year.

Lastly, with the total of 450 aircraft as the aiming point for THY and currently standing at about 305, I believe they realise if they required everyone to get an EASA license, it would further dry up an already low number of qualified applicants and they literally couldn't grow the airline the way they want to. Requiring an EASA license in a year and a half would just destroy the airline's growth strategy.

While we all could get an email first thing Monday morning saying EASA licensing will be required asap, I honestly just don't see it happening anytime in the next 4-5 years minimum while the hometown airline is growing leaps and bounds.

I could be wrong though..... :-)

Respectfully....

K

[bob777]

Kptltnt...I think you a tad misinformed. EASA is already the reference of all internal docs and FCL and FTL are due within max 2 years.There is plenty of EASA licensed pilots available..the point is giving the right T&Cs.

[furbpilot]

Must definitely have been a 737 crew ..when you fly 110 hours every month vast majority ,3/4 sectors a day and quite a bit at night...with minimum days off a ridiculous leave you start to see the lights...:eek:



UFO with green lights passed over our plane, say Turkish pilots - LOCAL (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ufo-with-green-lights-passed-over-our-plane-say-turkish-pilots-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=99476&NewsCatID=341)

[psychomantic]

317 aircrafts at the moment

[Kapitanleutnant]

Thanks for the info Bob.

Can you please tell me your source where it says that all Turkish Airlines pilots will be required to have an EASA license within the 2 year max... or the Jan 2018 you mentioned earlier?

Thanks

Kap

[de facto]

furb...
110 every month,please.
Got the last few months schedule of a 737 cpt,,,,averaging 73 hrs and 20-24 sectors.
Difficult hours,very much so,starting at 2 am to then start at 2 pm the next flight,flying to problematic countries and borderline unsafe yes...but thats boeing...320s have a much sweeter deal.

[bob777]

How many different airlines are in THY? This makes no sense unless each has his own contract.I think you got FO rosters...CPT are always in the high 90s..8 day off..the rest you said it your self. 320 may be better destinations on average..but still same figures...

[de facto]

bob,no its a 737 capt roster for the last 6 months.
How can you say a cpt flies always high 90?not technically possible anyways..1000 max/year so if you count out of 12 months, that would be a max average of 83,,if you take a month off...thats 91.
Basic maths really.

[italian stallion]

De facto why don't you post those schedules then we can all see and make an informed decision!!!

[bob777]

De Facto with all due respect..you have been THY advocate since a long time. I think disseminating false information is not a good strategy. Everybody knows that B737 in THY is a life shortener max flight time minimum rest and minimum days off with multiple dodgy destinations to include multiple sectors night flight to dark Africa and some security critical ones. Add to this 13/14 layover and the picture is clear. Turks just can't see the time to move to another type and expat have been leaving in droves. Everybody is flying 1000 hours per year..many had to take one month off unpaid beside the whopping 20 days of leave that you don't get the first year anyway. It would be much better to try improve what is probably the worse deal around to attract more people than to lie and have pissed off pilots ruining righteously THY reputation once they find out the truth..

[bob777]

Just to help make informed decisions. The main problem is that THY fails to acknowledge their operation are not normal under many aspects and expat don't have the same ( dangerous) pride driving locals. This just the last of a long serie of threats, diversions..
Turkish Airlines plane in Istanbul searched after bomb threat - CRIME (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-airlines-plane-in-istanbul-searched-after-bomb-threat-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=99560&NewsCatID=509)

[de facto]

Bob 777,

With due respect if you were reading my posts,you would have noticed that when asked if one should join THY,my answer was NO.
I have been answering continuous hatred and idiotic speaches here mostly,rather to let people know that Turks are the kindest I have met over the years and THY crews are quite respectful between each other.Again,it would come from how they are in general.
Then you have those white supremacists ex fo pre madonnas posting here,for whom I have read continuous repetitive slander and to which i reply.
Concerning flase statements you are the kings!!continuous high 90/110 all year round,pure bull****..is it not??
So enjoy your 777 bunker,2000TL allowance and moaning.
If you tell me,crews are flying 1000/year..then answer would be most of them do.
Some fly less..some more....P4 fly a lot now since many upgraded so capts fly less.
Italian,if you PM me your private email,i will fwd you a 737 capt schedule,not to say its mine.

[de facto]

defacto...your math is logic, but logics disappear in Istanbul. I wouldn't believe the stories until was there.
You cant be for real.

[bob777]

No slander no racism just facts. Just hanged the phone on a 737 Cpt friend of mine..you know to check your statement...97 hours three Africa flights..14 layovers 8 days off two home stby which is like to say..two surprise flights..most probably domestic 4 sectors to end with 102

[Mili86]

Guys ,
all in all, what is the current/recent Type upgrade status from narrow body to wide body?
Specially for expat FOs

[bob777]

Only local lowtimers.

[STEXUP]

What strikes is the delusion of these people. Politics give a very good clue of what is going on with the rest of the country including aviation. They have pissed off all neighboring countries and are surrounded by problems that are only the result of their unreachable arrogance. Yes my friend you have other option ..become a Saudi province or Qatari sub sultanate..you already are but please stop calling your airline the Best European...ok? Thank you.


http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/new-minister-eu-isnt-sole-option-for-turkey.aspx?pageID=238&nID=99646&NewsCatID=510

[bob777]

If I may...dear friend Jasta..I think you are making an evaluation error. It is evident that Turkey could be part of Europe and THY a very good company if they were both managed in a different way but as we all know in general people get the government and management they deserve.For instance you could start to take criticism, stop complaining about rosters and do something about it. I don't see why Stexup post disturbs you so much. In effect by calling THY best European airline it's a marketing lie ( food is excellent nothing to say) to passengers cause nothing in THY is at EU standards starting from CRM ( FO are worthless and big macho captain fly single pilot ..) training ( see worthless FOs) attitude and flight time limitations. Fact is that this still is the ME forum. The number of accidents incidents should have tought to you something by now..but you still think it is someone else fault and/or this just a racist conspiratotion to diminish Turkey. Same is true for EU accession. Rules are written..you abide fine you don't ..join the GCC. I think he is actually just trying to help and cannot see anything to do with racism..Israel ..or Poland ??Accusing of racism is the most common reaction here but you should really think how you treated " yabancies " before accusing others. Beside you can be an asshole regardless of etnicity and religion...and believe me.. if you'll get any improvement it will be thanks to yabancies ( or the increasing lack of thereof ) and the EU.

[thatwasclose]

Hello Gentlemen,

I hope all is well . I have been following the thread for a while now .
I was hoping to get some feedback specifically on the 777 fleet . Routes , how many flights a month , how many consecutive days off . If someone would could tell me that would be great .

[Mili86]

Guys,
Dont youu think that the discussion is going off-route??!:bored:
Its supposed to be sharing useful information about screening, working conditions, contract T&C , rosters, Training and etc...

Anyway does anybody know the TRTOs that THY will send NTR to, for type training? Also any idea about the fees and costs ?
Thanks in advance..(u may pm me if you like)

[STEXUP]

What the hell are you talking about? You think these are not useful information? Well...I give you one more then. If there were no idiots paying for type rating, line training, upgrades may be this could still be a decent job. Let's also say that seen the current conditions anyone joining on any fleet but 777 left seat is an idiot and even on that seat you'll have to deal with a lot bull****..trust me...better you pay someone else...

[flydive1]

A bit OT, but, how come is the Italians that are so vocal against Turkish airline and Turkey in general?
Is it maybe because aviation (and politics and the economy) at home is so great that they feel they can judge harshly another country?

;)

[APU_inop]

It's the same 6-7 guys in here (some are probably the same person) that keeps on moaning despite the fact that there are plenty of jobs at home but they choose to stay. Either due to the fact that they are rejected everywhere else or due to the low costs of living and the almost taxfree salary of 12k euro per month, and the 2 hours business class trip home. Going to Africa once every other month stinks but so do the Irish, far East and the Sandpit.

The market has started to pick up and alot of pilots are unhappy due to the slow rate of improvements in T&Cs.

Some start their posting here saying that they only have "friends" working in the various troublesome companies, after a couple of debates, it turns out that they are actually working there.

Everyone is moaning about massive problems with low moral, massive attrition rates and the likes everywhere but when you look at the facts... airlines like EK, TK etc appears to be employing almost 4 new pilots per resigning pilot. I suspect that this moaning is to keep the attrition up, recruitment low so that they can enjoy the increased T&C themselves, which makes sense if you consider yourself underpaid or overworked.

Don't get me wrong, TK is a big mess in many aspects but talk to people working there before making a decision after getting the big picture. The guys on here moaning aren't philantropists guarding your quality of life, they just want better T&Cs for themselves. Alot of what is said here however is true. Alot isn't.

[de facto]

30N30whatever.
The basic is roughly :25000 TL+3000TL(layovers,sunday and other small extras),83 hrs average/month/year is about 13 hrs overtime/month(around 3000Tl) and bonus about 3000 tl/month.
That is 34000 TL /month(10300 eur)
If you add the longhaul 700 eur housing allowance:11000 eur/month.

FACT

[STEXUP]

De Facto factoring in overtime is not really honest
isn't it. Your figures are inflated and again you are talking about WB captains as WB FOs gets nothing like thr rest of NB captains and first officer and this is something inconceivable. Flydive talk with any 320/737 foreign pilot and regardless you will see that the complaint are vastly transnational.

[de facto]

stexup,
you are a funny guy,on one side you guys say capt fly high 90s non stop..and on the other side,well flying 1000/year is inflated...
I leave you to it...enjoy your miserable lives and traumatic mental
disorders.
30N...you are roughly wrong unfortunately,but hey who knew...you left the ship.

[APU_inop]

I'm rather confused, initially, according to the people here having "only friends working there" everyone is busting their hiney off producing 110 hours a month in Africa just to later be told that counting on 83 hours a month is too optimistic and not fair...

How's it gonna be gentlemen?

[thatwasclose]

Alright guys, let just cut the crap here. Lets talk facts and let everything else fall into place. All people are different. But pay is not hard to figure out and I am trying to evaluate what the facts are in regards to pay and days off. Please help me out here.
777 captain pay is roughly...... a month
Days off are roughly ......a month
Days off in a row are roughly ....
Common destinations on the 777 are .......

If someone could provide that information to a fellow aviator who is trying to access his
options it would be greatly appreciated. If any of you want hard facts on a certain middle eastern airline am happy to provide them.
Thanks

[_HAMMER_]

Hello, I've got some numbers from some friendly Turkish pilots.

They say for wide body, roster is 8 days is a row +1 day for travel.

There is an allowance during training about 2000 USD per month, and housing provided for the first 45 days (not sure yet about deductions for Non type rated, I will like to know about that please)

A320 drivers flies about 70 hrs. a month. 3 to 4 layovers and 10 days off.

737s around 80 hrs. and 8 days off a month but from 10 to 15 nights away, some are night’s turnarounds to Africa and others are layovers.

Salary is about 6000 $ after training for narrow body.

If anybody could please confirm this numbers, deductions/bond for non type-rated and advise to move there with family.

Thank you.

[furbpilot]

737 CPT 90/110 hours 8 days off max basic 6400 euro lot of night flying. Syrian border flights/ PKK hot area flight/ Africa/few EU flights/ CIS/ ME multiple layovers no benefits
737 FO 60/75 hours 8 days off basic 4400 no benefits
A320 CPT 90/110 8 days off night flying / Mogadisciu/ North Africa / EU flight / Iraq/ domestic Syrian border PKK
A320 FO see 737
A330,CPT 7300 Euro basic 700 ,allowance or hotel accommodation 85/90,hours. block off days mixed flying EU/ ME /Africa/Asia/North America/ Subcontinent
A330 FO pay scale same as 737/320 FOs
B777 CPT 80/95 hrs rest same as 330. Asia/ North&South America some EU / domestic/ Subcontinent/
B777 FOs see 330

General issues: poor CRM starting from higher floors, non existent positive company culture, in general not an expat airline ,poor general English, too much influence of local culture politics, excessive pride, excessive importance of seniority, poor retrograde management style , segregation of expat from locals, no leave first year/ 20 days after up to 5 , general security, multiple bomb threats ( weekly if not daily) geopolitical issues. FO fly economy only.

Additional Issues narrow body : Planning/ roster/ days off/ extreme fatigue no time for social life , hobbies, commuting virtually impossible.

Additional Issues wide body: Same but slightly better rosters ( not so much on 330 ) English and proficiency of newly appointed local captains from 737. With minimal long haul experience they will be senior to you even if you have ten times their experience on type

People are generally courteous and respectful but it's mostly a formal attitude. It is very difficulty to befriend locals, religious and cultural barrier are still perceptible criticism is taken immediately as an offense as they have a very high opinion of them self ,Turkey and Turkish airlines ( the best) and tend not to be objective. There is a rough 30% of exceptions to all of this made of younger generation more wide angled view individuals. Still In general locals look at expat with contempt and not as on the same level , if not as a threat. Bringing family to Istanbul is simply impossible due to language barrier, school fees and security. Housing from 800/1600 euro per month, inflation 11% expect rises. Attrition very high few candidates showing up recently or so I'm been told.

[thatwasclose]

Furb,
Thanks a lot !

[Mili86]

737 FO 60/75 hours 8 days off basic 4400 eur. no benefits
A330 FO pay scale same as 737/320 FOs

Many thanks to FURBPILOT , goood info,
However I think the pay info is a bit old...according to THY official announcement monthly min. gross pay for FO is increased to approx. 5500Eur.((inclusive of the avg. monthly bonus)) , plus overtime ( above 70hrs ).

I just didnt get what is meant by BENEFIT, in no benefits ???

[PTU738]

Don't go there as an FO, it is miserable experience, unless you like to be treated like a slave. The standards are terrible and the CRM zero.
Please go there and enjoy it, but I have warned you.

Good luck

[STEXUP]

You say low standard ah? Well just heard a story from a friend who talked with another friend who is the cousin of brother of the husband of the lady cleaning the toilets in the "mudurlugu" that is how is called if a remember well. that a last week a 737 landed either too short or to long in some Anatolian airport and destroyed two tires on a closed section of the runway. This would be nothing special.. I mean within certain limits..**** happens. But the unbelievable part is that that few hours later another 737 carrying the spare tires ..did the same !!
I just wonder what the CEO is waiting to get rid of incompetent management and to overhaul the entire flight ops by putting international standard qualified peopel of locals that cannot even read or speak English.
Pride finishes where people start to risking their lives... and the trend is pointing in that direction.

[Capt143]

Dear APU_INOP
Your comment was very nice and I found it very useful because you directly point the actual and real life. I think people who come here need actual info, not what some racist guys think. I can't understand why those guys wanna send negative points to other ?
I know one of these guys that applying as DEC for 737, it seems he was rejected or failed in interview

[JammedStab]

I think that the hiring may slowly grind to a halt in the next year. I had a layover there a few days ago and it was quite enjoyable doing the tourist thing for two days. Wonderful weather. But I see another bomb went off today, just a couple of minutes walk from where I was taking pictures of a university entrance.

Loads are already low(although we were full due to a big sale to try to stimulate demand) and the restaurant area in the evening where I had my enjoyable meal was not very busy.

Something to think about before leaving a job for this airline. It is impressive though to see the sea of red tails when one taxis in.

Certainly seems to be a performance-limited airport.

[furbpilot]

Capt143 your post is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. The level of immaturity is stunning. Your comment on 737 DEC that failed screening and now complain here is stupid to say the least. You are the typical "cry and ****" style guy that seems so common there. Beside 737 DEC are interviewing yes.but after they resign.Face it..Turkey.. THY are not the best..and with people with your attitude will never get better.

[Capt143]

Furbpilot
THY is not a good place for daddy kids or racist ones, with these attitudes it is better to avoid THY. For the numbers 90/110 hours flying time of 737 you mentioned, it is actually impossible because Turkish DGCA monitors all airline and limits pilot's to 900 hours per year. With numbers you mentioned, a pilot has to fly for 1300 hours a year which is impossible.
So try to give right info to people. Those moaning here are all applying with THY and hereby looking for more benefits for themselves and give wrong info to others. (Detail info on those guy available in Private Message if you like)
If you are right and THY is so bad, ok forget about it and go to your home favorite airline and enjoy its beautiful T&C , but if you have to pay the bills and feed the kids, stop moaning.
I say again THY is not a good option for Daddy Kids or those who are racist.

[South Prince]

@Capt 143.........Turkish DGCA monitors all airline and limits pilot's to 900 per year

Please, just a confirmation because my OM-A Sect 7 says 1000 hrs.

[Capt143]

@ south prince
This info I provide is base on last audit took place from AtlasGlobal ( AtlasJet) by DGCA last month.

[furbpilot]

DGAC limit is 1000 hours. Pilots are forced to take unpaid leave to avoid exceed such limit on narrow body fleets. Daddy's kids abound in THY as there are entire families and multiple generations being employed. Check your facts dostum.As per going back home ..no worries many did and will keep doing it unless the attitude that so very well you represent will change. As per racism..look at the mirror.

[de facto]

Haven't met or heard of a single 737 capt having to take unpaid leave in the last few years to avoid the flight limit…but hey you know better,after all you still work in THY:rolleyes:

[South Prince]

With some good planning you can roster approx 95 hrs/month for 10.5 months and take the rest for vac- rt-sim etc....which is an amazing/exausting, but legal, amount of work on a narrow body activity that includes night flying.

[STEXUP]

Capt143 slavery has been abolished in the civilized world. Does not seem so in Turkey. I just remember the faces at the briefing . Tired grumpy faces with dark swollen eye sockets and all the signs of cronichal fatigue..this is how best describe the average Turkish captain. The number of hearth attacks is way higher than average and you can see why. Planning is simply criminal and even more if you consider that pax have no clue of what are the psychofisical conditions of those in charge. Fatigue has been a factor in many THT accident incidents..haven't the best "EU" airline learn anything? You save money on crew and than throw it from the window on hull losses incident , bad PR and with a training system than to define inefficient is an euphemism . Sure money is important but health is more. Most of foreign comes from countries where your status is not shown by the car you drive . We can do without that Mercedes..but we cannot do without our life do you understand?

[Capt143]

@ STEXUP
As per fatigue you are right and I am agree with you. The flying loads are relatively high in narrow body fleets. But the story has two sides, negatives and positives. If only negative points be emphasized, it is not fair. With moaning here nothing will be improved.
As an expat, you have to accept that you are a guest and some day soon or late you have to leave. In most of the countries, the locals have priority ( including countries I was flown ). So a guest can not change the culture of a country. Yes you can find lots of problems in turkey but who can solve them ? Even if you fly in Gulf carriers the same story exist. For example can you change the restricted Islamic regulations there ? Or change their culture ? The only way is to adapt with environment. If adaptation is not possible for anyone due to health,money,....etc the best way is back to home I think.

[furbpilot]

@ STEXUP
As per fatigue you are right and I am agree with you. The flying loads are relatively high in narrow body fleets. But the story has two sides, negatives and positives. If only negative points be emphasized, it is not fair. With moaning here nothing will be improved.
As an expat, you have to accept that you are a guest and some day soon or late you have to leave. In most of the countries, the locals have priority ( including countries I was flown ). So a guest can not change the culture of a country. Yes you can find lots of problems in turkey but who can solve them ? Even if you fly in Gulf carriers the same story exist. For example can you change the restricted Islamic regulations there ? Or change their culture ? The only way is to adapt with environment. If adaptation is not possible for anyone due to health,money,....etc the best way is back to home I think.
Capt143...we are not guest..we are employee same as you are. Plant it in your head. The country you " were flown" don't suffer massive shortage of pilots thus they can source pilots internally. Still within Europe there is quite a mix of nationalities in airlines. Turkey is not Europe unfortunately. The Gulf carriers don't have " yabancies" just pilots, they train together, they are not segregated, and you can plan your entire career wth no silly discriminations or botched seniority lists. Regulations are clear and easy to abide and not restrictive as you may think. Actually you may have much more fun there than in Grumpistanbul, Beside everybody including locals speaks fluent English ( still the international aviation language until the rise of the next Ottoman Empire at least...) salaries are double, benefit incomparable as there are none in THY. Sure they are short as well..many are leaving THY to filing their ranks. You and only you should solve your problems..and you can change a lot ..sure not if your only goal is buying that Mercedes . There is no positive side able to compensate endangering your own health...unless you are really only looking to buy that same above mentioned Mercedes.The only way to safeguard THY future is to adapt to the international airline environment it wants to belong...may be by involving international management . Concerning leaving many followed and are still following your suggestion..worry not. Nothing really for you to be happy about since the only good things in THY will probably come thanks to expat since you seem to have no balls..just that Mercedes in your head. So careful what you wish. Let's not talk about the 42 % loss in TRY value, the security issues, the internal and international political situation, the 700 million $ loss in first quarter if compared to last year the endless serie of incident and near accidents to include hull losses ....what are we left with?? Good food on board? Get real it's my suggestion. Over and out.

[Capt143]

@furbpilot
It's better to face with real life. Turkish currency value falls about 30%. There is no accommodations for short haul fleets. There is not an excellent insurance. All are correct specially when comparing with Gulf carriers. I am not Turkish and is a foreigner like you. But for me it's really hard to face with restricted Islamic rules in Gulf area. For example right now it is Ramadan in Gulf area and drinking alcohol can lead to prison. Temperature will reach to + 50 cellcius in near future.
On the other hand THY contract is permanent but as you know the work permit is not and will be renewed yearly. Who knows next year the ministry of labor would renew work permits for expats ? As in beginning of 2014 work permit of most expats flying in other Turkish carriers (not THY) suspended without any notice in advance. Other Turkish carriers is limited to max 10% of expat crew and THY is exempted right now. Until when this exemption would be valid, nobody knows. This exemption would be suspended soon or late. So instead of moaning it is better to find an alternate. So forget about Mercedes story, it is not my business.
By the way, if I told "guest" it doesn't mean that your rights are less or etc, just because it's my imagination for myself. I am a guest too, so I do not try to change them. As far as I can adapt myself I would continue, if the conditions exceeds my thresholds, will be back home without hesitate. So far beside negative points, I found positive points too and for the time being it is ok for me. About the future, I hope to be ok but nobody knows.

[DirtyProp]

As an expat, you have to accept that you are a guest and some day soon or late you have to leave. In most of the countries, the locals have priority ( including countries I was flown ). So a guest can not change the culture of a country. Yes you can find lots of problems in turkey but who can solve them ? Even if you fly in Gulf carriers the same story exist. For example can you change the restricted Islamic regulations there ? Or change their culture ? The only way is to adapt with environment. If adaptation is not possible for anyone due to health,money,....etc the best way is back to home I think.
Would you please explain this basic concept to the thousand migrants coming to Europe and EXPECTING us to adapt to their culture?
Thank you.

[White Knight]

Turkey is not Europe unfortunately

Unfortunately? I'd say FORTUNATELY... Totally different culture and mindset!

Only Tony Blair thinks that the Turks are part of Europe!

[South Prince]

143!! If you cannot cope with ramadan alcohol restrictions you might have a bigger problem☺.

[JonyBGood]

I prefer much more the Gulf Carriers and GCC life Style (Dubai) than to live in Turkey. But for Europeans, you'll be closer to your home, weather is similar too, this isn't my case.

That segregation atmosphere on THY between expats and local's isn't comfortable.

[furbpilot]

There is no way THY will be able to crew its aircraft without expat so I think there will be no chance work permit will be canceled unless a civil war will start..which is almost the case by the way.. This has nothing to do with Turkish people which are mostly pleasant and gentle but the environment in THY has been poisoned by an uneffective management which has been totally incapable of managing this new expat experience. HR is a disaster of communication and they have been trying to cheat multiple times thinking that expat are all idiots. The only result was to loose reputation , very capable pilots and waste a fortune in never ending recruiting and " training "often with progressively lower and lower level candidates. It would seem that in Turkey people when they get into a power position just fall in love with it ..in an tad excessive way. You can see that in politics as well. We all hope for the best and wish THY success but something must change.

[de facto]

Pass rate still about the same for the last 4-5 years..20-30%.according to a large recruiting agency.

[furbpilot]

Pass rate still about the same for the last 4-5 years..20-30%.according to a large recruiting agency.
Yeah..cause beside the "privileged" wide body ..what's on offer fails to attract much other than type self sponsoring guys. Seems anyway a good business for CAE/Park Aviation ( the large recruiting agency? ) ain't it? The more they fail the more they have to pre screen...

[de facto]

Seems anyway a good business for CAE/Park Aviation ( the large recruiting agency? ) ain't it? The more they fail the more they have to pre screen...
Not sure I'm following you,nothing new id say, but agencies get the money when the candidate is signing the Airline contract,not before the selection takes place.

[furbpilot]

I heard a different story about getting paid by candidate regardless of the outcome. The Irish mafia & Co is capable of shameful things for cash and THY is an easy target seen their lack of experience and, from a certain perspective, ingenuity.

[Algol]

Tell us more about the "Irish Mafia"!

[furbpilot]

Euroscammers.

[aviatorguy1986]

737 Captains??

Good day i would like to know if there somebody that has taken the contract of non rated captain for 737, i will go to screening next month and i would like to know the experience of captains,with this kind of contract according with turskish web site you can earn an avarage of 31,000 TL but maybe thats not that accurate as far as i have read here, thanks in advance

[Slash787]

Do they provide accommodation for expats in Istanbul or you have to find it on your own and pay from your own pocket?