Turkish Airlines - THY Recruitment (Merged)

[wolf141]

hey, they got 70+ Lufthansa pilots recruited in one batch after the famous strike a month ago in Germany. Not the gossip but the fact! It might have forced them to revisit their decision on FAA licensed drivers.

[wolf141]

Fluke very good points!:ok::D
When I read the other posts criticizing rest of the world airlines, I feel like I should stop flying for anybody and book for another job. Overall, it is a supply and demand environment and no one is perfect. I know that company is working hard to keep the things organized, which is very demanding due to many constraints caused by fast growing fleet and destination numbers. So, it is easy to criticize but hard to correct unless you become part of it!

[latetonite]

Right. Be unhappy with Lufthansa, and trade for THY. That will make your day.

[bob777]

Yeah matey..have some vegemite and lets have fun !!:):):)

[GF4RCE]

Yeah matey..have some vegemite and lets have fun !!
count me in....its off topic but anyone know where i can get vegemite here in Turkey... tired Marmite:eek: from UK ...just doesn't taste the same

[SADDLER]

In the cockpit, Thy is a great job.

[alloha]

according to Sigma the English aviation Test has been ruled out from the assessments .Only for narrow bodies

[Flyboy_SG]

Yes , English test is only for Widebody captains.
I'm Attending the PSP right now in IST. Will post an update soon guys.


Cheers :)

[porkflyer]

It is clear from the contradicting information that no one. starting from THY, has a clue. For those having a tendency to see things with rose tinting lenses here a few much needed points to consider in your reality check


1) Expat are not welcome in THY and generally only welcomed in Turkey as long as they can get their money

2)THY is a non expat airline. They are irresponsibly lying to expat to fulfill a temporary lack of Turkish national. Your "permanent" yabanci contract is not permanent but linked to your work permit that will be renewed every year.
A phone call to the Ministry of Labor will suffice when needed.

3) Turkey has become largely a dictatorship and THY is a direct emanation of the Government. Freedom of speech has been limited. Youtube banned after expose' revealing massive bribery of PM and gang

4) No upgrade of DEC to long haul fleet will ever happen. No upgrade of foreign FO will ever happen even for astrophysicists.

5) You will be tolerated as a necessary evil and treated with interested courtesy until needed

6) THY is far from being the best European Airline as they love to call them self. Beside Turkey hasn't been for the last 50 years (and will probably never be) able to fully understand what being European implies.

7) The company is still vastly under control of an ex- military mafia starting from flight ops management, protecting the local military pilots and keeping their seat warm until ready for the next CFIT by imposing absurd limitation on civilian pilots ( degree and 6 years ) while they can upgrade in two without speaking a word ( may be one ?) of English and with questionable attitude. Many would not pass a screening in any "real" airline.

8) G4RCE is an expat that has been involved by THY recruitment as they have no what so ever clue in trying to sell for gold what actually is mostly lead.

9) TL has lost 33% of its value in one year. The country is in a constant political turmoil causing large, unpredictable fluctuations of its currency. Devaluation of 99% happened not so long ago.

10) Commuting on narrow body is impossible from Europe imagine from the US. Leave stands at 15 days , No leave first year. Moving your family to Istanbul impossible. Foreign schools are incredibly expensive ( starting from 15000 EUR per kid/year). THY does not offer any benefit.Two ID90 tickets month for eligible family members. Turkey inflation skyrocketing at 12% and Istanbul is more expensive than you think.

11) Of the initiial group of 350 pilots 77% is not working for THY anymore me included.

12) The job becomes acceptable if you are retired from other outfit looking for some last fun and extra bucks in Turkey on wide body fleets.

Enjoy

[MD83FO]

is it any fun to live in istambul as a single guy?

[latetonite]

Of course fun. You do it, you are converted, and married.

[Clandestino]

hey, they got 70+ Lufthansa pilots recruited in one batch after the famous strike a month ago in Germany. Not the gossip but the fact!

It might be fact for those unable to tell the difference between Lufthansa Cityline and mainline.

[Payscale]

Did anyone who went to the DXB roadshow plan to resign and join THY.

[bob777]

I'll send you a PM..

[cucuotto]

Non rated 777 CPT & FO are now asked to pay the type rating form their pockets 33000 Euro. What kind of candidate will they get if any? The best? More like the most desperate...

[yanbancypilot]

I can't believe it. The Best European Arline is now acting like some f***d up LOCO operator selling type ratings? This after having already pissed off hundreds if not thousands of pilots from all over the world. I never heard Air France, British Airways, or Lufthansa or any major really European carrier doing anything like that. Its evidently getting some bad counseling . THY like Ryanair...go figure who the counselors might be:ugh::ugh:

[de facto]

The English test was obviously cancelled:E

[latetonite]

Among other things.

[flycaptain]

Hi guys and gals,

Can anyone PM me in regards to Turkish interview as 777 DEC?
As much as I appreciate everyones opinion, I only ask for for actual process and additional info strictly on the interview.

Greatly appreciated

[success]

hi everyone,

i have an interview with THY on rated a340/a330.
can anyone tell me the routes, total net pay and cost of living?
how much is it to rent an apartment near airport?

thanks in advance.

[Mili86]

Hey guys,
Why not share interview and assessment experience? Those who have already attended 5day screening in IST. Please share their experience and results....

Also if anyone has an updated info. On salaries and benefits offered for both FO and CAPT. , please post here.

[Mehran899]

I am captain of md-80 & I am received the approval to go to Istanbul .is it comfortable for me to take my famili there ?what are the interview questions?
Best regads

[Mili86]

Mehran899
Hi my friend
I am captain of md-80 & I am received the approval to go to Istanbul .is it comfortable for me to take my famili there ?what are the interview questions?
Best regads




I think we are both from the same country...
So it is really good to hear that you are invited to IST.... How did they invite you to IST? By phone? Or by email? And did u have the ability to change the dates according your own plans?

And about your family, Istanbul is really a nice place to go..to live, to have fun, to work... A bit crowded but still better that here, u know.. I really recommend you to take your family, or your wife at least to Istanbul during your 5 day interview ..so she can have an experience about Istanbul and the way the life goes on there... You can also check out different regions to for your future housing.
About the questions and interview, i have really no idea, I have not gone for interview , but some guys here have...so just check out previous posts and find out more..

Also to help others, please post your interview experience and results and any good info. After you come back from IST. Please.

Goooodd luck:ok:

[Intlyogi]

Any help out there, thats is current and fair so much negative

Pm me pls:ugh:

[porkflyer]

I see Turkish Airlines has finally resorted to recruit culturally compatible pilots.
For those coming from fully civilized countries , if in anyway possible, stay away from that abusive, xenophobic outfit.

[Payscale]

Which countries don't they recruit from?
I think all expat airlines do that.

[bob777]

What do you mean by culturally compatible?Iran is largely Scite while Turkey is largely Sunni. I doubt you would find an Iranian pilot in the Gulf but I stand to be corrected. This is more and more a sociopolitical exercise ( or a seat filing one? ) but are we the guinea pig? Well at least it will be a good topic for the thesis of my sociology degree..:E

[TopGun 24]

Hi folks, Hv been called to IST soon for interview for Cruise pilot F/O position, any suggestions or advice regarding what to expect wud be appreciated.....!!!

[porkflyer]

All you need to know on how Ottoman Airlines considers and treats expat pilot can be found here.

Janissaries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries)

[selcalcheck]

Dear Porkflyer,
I am afraid you had an hard bite of THY and I am deeply sorry for you.
My personal experience by now is just the opposite.

It is since 2010 I joined this fast growing airline and dare to say I felt treated as a friend by any crew and as a pro by the management.

As in any other company there are thinghs that might be improved. Thinghs that should be re thought. I don't quite believe YOUR national airline or companies are perfect either.

It was all brand new for the locals to accept foreigners in the very beginning but I never felt misunderstood or mistreated because of that.
Turkey is still trying to find its own way between East and West and I believe it is not easy at all. Its people, as a matter of fact, are gentle and friendly.
It is a proof of arrogance thinking than any culture should be tailored to our needs or habits.
All the best for you and for those who are joining soon...

[porkflyer]

From your posts , age and evident nationality I assume you are in Turkey probably just to integrate your retirement cheque. I also believe you are on WB fleet and therefore sure you are enjoying your block off days , free confirmed ticket, higher salary ( for what the TL is worth now ..) and housing benefits . You also probably fit the environment and your flattery is completely understandable.
I, on the other end , had a totally different experience and from that experience, I can say that THY was and apparently still is a mockery that makes Ryanair , now, a dream of fairness and professionalism trust me.
The extreme turnover just shows the reality .For you I understand it's a dream job.This is actually where the problem lies but do not disseminate false information based on your specific "privileged" situation.
Remember no one forced THY to hire expat. They could have remained a small regional carrier crashing a plane every now and then.
But since they did they have been messing around with them in all possible ways and pissing them off by the hundreds . The mistake we all made was expecting THY to be a "normal" airline which is definitely not the case. Imagine the "best European" :ugh:
Don't worry as soon as a Turk will be ready to replace you , you will be kicked out .Don't make the mistake of thinking is going to take that long whatever they tell you. Don't be fooled by their opportunistic courtesy. In reality they don't like you . Its their DNA.
By the way YOUR national carrier has been sold to Arabs... mine is presently hiring.

[Boeingrestricted]

Your devotion in portraying/imposing your views onto others makes me think that you have personally met the Cpt. of Midnight Express 'bar' in IST:ooh:.

[porkflyer]

What a misunderstanding !! I'm not angry at all It was an interesting experience that I will treasure. Got me to know that Turkey and its European possibilities/aspirations are both , fortunately, standing at zero. Turkey is a 100% Middle Eastern country in the middle of a delusional Islamist Neo-Ottoman drive. Still fantastic for a short vacation but a nightmare for a EU expat worker. Rest assured that my view is shared by the hundreds that left and are still leaving on a daily basis, No need for impositions just read this forum .Iranian fellow pilots seems to be abundant and they will be happy to take their place in a more sensible and respectful way.:ok: Still I feel compelled to warn my fellow European pilots THY can may the Best European Airline for passenger ( even if I cannot really understand how it can be part of that category) but sure the worst Middle Eastern expat employer. I heard a rumor of a merger with ISIS airline..can you confirm?

[Payscale]

Dear Porky.
I don't work for THY so my judgment is not from personal experience. However how can it be desiminating false information if he is telling us about his experiences on LH. Just because it different from the ones you made when you were a short haul FO. In any airline it long from short FO to long Captain. Especially in a middle eastern culture which Turkey is.
I am sure they would prefer an all turkish crew. Even Emirates, Qatar and Etihad would. So one day it's goodbye and thanks for coming. It's just an integral part of being an expat pilot.
I hope you moved on to better things. But ask yourself this. If you were a Longhaul skipper with THY would you have the same attitude?

[Payscale]

Bob777

We do have Shiite and Sunni pilots at emirates. Even a couple of Jews too. It really not a problem

[selcalcheck]

By the way a peculiar nickname you picked...

You are absolutely right when you figure our I am a skipper on a ER flights.
Different contract, different benefits.
The fact I am integrating my retirement cheque it is quite a private issue that matters no one. You in primis.

Try, if you are able, to remain stick to the topic.
We are discussing THY enviroment here, just business.

I say again: I am sorry if your experience was so depriment. At this point you did the right thing if it was you to decide to leave.
My experience is more then excellent here, and I am not Iranian.
Do you think to be better only because you were born somewhere else?

Take care.

P.S. What a harsh reaction you are having, my airline sold to the arabs, yours hiring... Maybe you are tall, blond and from a pure race (arian?) to have such a perspective. Let us know...

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Found what?

[joprato]

So we understand that opinions vary quite a lot about THY... Posts from 2+ years ago say awful things about this company, more recent posts comment about good and bad stuff, so it looks like things are improving, possibly slowly, but they are.

Now, how would you pilots at THY describe the general working environment there ? quality of life ? Any overnights anywhere with the 330 ? What about 320 FO schedules, destinations and general life ?
Concerning the selection process, how does it work ? Would you describe it as hard, simple, nothing much to worry about ?

[yanbancypilot]

THY is good only for retired long haul captains and low hour P2F pilots as it is a temporary contract. Don't trust anyone telling you differently. There are thousands of Turks getting their license as we speak. Many expat moved and will keep moving to real airlines offering real careers and expat benefits
Joprato compared to two years ago salaries are down 30% and most of the people venting on this forum has left including me. As a statistic around 70% % of the initial pilot intake has left THY . The environment is , let's say, not expat friendly.
Life style on narrow body? What life..??
There are much better options trust me.

[TopGun 24]

Hi Bob777,
I'm coming for an interview with THY as Cruise Pilot soon, cud u plz tell me details of Pay, housing and flying hours monthly...Thnx

[bob777]

Topgun...original nickname :) . From your posts I see you are looking for a fast upgrade. Well I'm not really in the position to give suggestion . My opinion is biased by my not so optimistic attitude. In fact after having been i played around on my perspectives and having consequently lost a good opportunity I kind of lost my trust and I came down to more a prosaic attitude...
What I can tell you is that you will most probably not be getting an upgrade and even less a fast one.
Yabanci is right, salary are down 30% due to TRY piloted devaluation. A mulled pay rise has yet to be seen. No housing will be provided if not for LH DEC. and you will be flying around 70 hours a month.
Let me just bring to your attention the following citation that could be appropriate :

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. (Albert Einstein)

[TopGun 24]

Thanks Bob777, will moot over it and By the Way your quote had the Deeper Meaning...!!!

[italian stallion]

Hi Yanbancypilot
Any suggestions on the much better options you mentioned?

[captain-sky]

Hi i am wondering if their is any feed back from A340 /A330 Captain working with THY in regards to :
1- THE 3 WEEKS ROSTER ( how many flights ,days for rest )is the week off guaranteed ?
2- what is the general atmosphere in the cockpit and with the crew for a foreign non turkish pilot ?
3- what is the average Per diem per month for long haul A340
4- how is the general standard for the turkish F/O
thank you

[cool_pilot]

Hi Guys

May I kindly have an idea about A330/A340 destinations within THY network.

Thanks & Kind regards

[bob777]

Just for your reference be informed that the first group of expat FO has been bypassed by means of unilateral and discriminatory changes to the seniority targeting just limited number of early expat joiners. Something unimaginable out of Turkey..and probably in Turkey as well.. Basically it would appear they worked in THY for two years without working in THY..they just dreamed of it :ok:. I hope this information along with the many available on this forum, will help those thinking of applying to THY to take wise an informed decisions. Some did not have this chance in the past and find themselves resentful . We are talking about people careers,life and future here.

[chrislikesblue]

Anyone who did the assessment could help me with some feedback? Private messages are always welcome.

[migair54]

Hi guys.

I saw in TK recruitment page that now they accept pilots with ATR72 hours, however they state, 3000 hours in planes over 27 tonnes, 2000 hours in one of the following types.... then among the types is ATR72.

Does this mean one or the other or both are mandatory requirements? ATR72 is around 23 Tonnes only.

If selected, do they have a bond or do they charge for the rating? Ihave heard too many different stories and I'd like to see what's true and how things are, before applying.

Thank you all guys.

[migair54]

Thank you for the feed back... it looks like worse than I though, after you said paying my type rating I stopped considering TK... 30000 Euros to work, that's crazy and only 1 ticket s year with 20 days of holidays...

[Flyboy_SG]

I made it but not joining them, as First Officer contract is unbelievably insane. I would rather stay home and take command.

My advice is... If you are a Capt and nothing else to lose(like seniority/Chk pilot/TRI/TRE posts) you can join and experience the country and airline. Like some one said, Turkey is still in the process of getting used to expats. English penetration is really low compared to other ME countries.

As FO, never join them, most likely no command, poor pay, hardly any leaves,pathetic staff travel and probably a not so friendly cockpit. You are just going to be warming the right seat for a while. And the stupid rule of 4 year college degree is a Joke! ( whereas many captains there are barely highschool pass outs. No offense but the rule is just funny)

[umitatl]

Any suggestion where to take command?

Thanks in advance :)

[porkflyer]

All airlines hiring expatriate pilots offer a standard career path with normal career progression. Korean does not offer upgrade to FO but it is clearly stated in their offer ( you can take an informed decision ) and includes accommodation and commuting benefits making of THY a unique **** up. If you want and can reside in EU come to Ryanair if you have experience you can upgrade in one year and be a TRI in 2.

[umitatl]

Sorry not eligable to reside in Eu.. interested in me ones.

[bob777]

Umitati as the swine already said all airlines hiring expat offer upgrade opportunities and a non discriminating environment. Only exception.... THY. Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, Cathay, Dragon Air, Air Hong Kong, Air Arabia, Air Japan, Vietnam Airlines, all really European carriers and the list continues now even with some Chinese operator will put you , unlike THY on a real, no joke, seniority list and upgrade you when your number comes out without any other
requirement than an ATPL and the necessary skills.... Your position reads Europe. Are you a clandestine..?

[yanbancypilot]

Me personally think Umitati is living in a country that geographically is by a small part in Europe but by all other aspects one light year away...if not more.
Turkey. Suggestion: calling repeatedly "master" the captain seating near to you in the SIM at the screening of most of the mentioned airline will be probably a good reason to fail you . Not the opposite.

[7oodaz]

Guys ive been reading your posts and feeling really weird you're complaining about turkey and THY including every single note you said,
well, im an Egyptian Pilot, i Fly B738 for Egyptair , I Get Paid as Little as 2500 Euros per month, average of 70 flying hours monthly( up to 100 hours, minimum of 55 hours ) , silly roasters, 7 working days then 2 days off, 21 days annual leave, with no other allowances except those in layovers,
Knowing The Current Situation in Egypt, i'd rather live any other country in the world, im sure it will be a better place !
so, i've a screening soon in THY , do u think THY is better for me ?

and please if anyone has any experience with THY screening let me know
PM'S are welcomed ;)

[Scott_T]

Hi could anyone who has recently screened and then joined THY please PM me thank you very much

[Flap2]

Well you can not say the payment is bad as such. Yes its lower than EK ETI etc. But its still good....
Well the roster for Fos is not bad, as we do not fly more than 65-70 hours per month. Just be clear of that u as expat will virtually never fly on sundays etc. as these days are reserved for the turks!(more money for them)

The big big issue is in THY is the crm. Unfortunately it is at some stage not excisting at all...
A combination of no social/emptahy skills and no english proficiency by a large amount of turkish pilots, makes the CRM go down, to a virtually non existing level.

[B harry]

Does anybody know about the new turkish air letter of intent giving to pilots succeeding in their pilot screening interview.

[B harry]

I attended the screening, and passed. They take you to a five day screening
Day one Crm group work
Day two document check
Day three simulator
Day four tech interview
Day five Medical check

Basically, you will be informed by email if you passed that days screening

If you go thru all 5 days, you will be congratulated

But thats just the beginning. Then you have to wait and wait until,you hear from them again

They ask you to pay for all your training as a non type rated up front, that sums up something about 18-22000 euros or more as they can not come up with the real amount!!

They send you a LOI letter of intent with lots of terms and conditions in it you need a lawyer to de-code that!,

[B harry]

I would say go ahead and try go thru the screening. I made a post about the five day screening

[malchogancho]

Are there any happy FO in THY?

All angry ones, please don't reply. I have applied with the airline and expecting the assessment next month. Reading this thread has scared me, but then I realized it is the same few people complaining...

Many people like me are willing to take the job that someone else refuses.

I want to see if there are FO that actually get what the contract says:

-11, 500 TL basic
-5, 800 TL quaterly bonus

This is what we apply for and this is what we expect.

I have univ diploma , 4500 hrs total, 2500 on A320? Would I have a chance to upgrade to wide body in the next 3 years and to a captain in the next 5-6?

Simple expectations - flight hours, culture, home sickness are no factor. Also cab reinbursment :)

I am sure plenty of candidates are looking for this exact info and noting more?

thanx t

[TopGun 24]

Hey Flyboy SG,
My sentiments exactly...I also made it but have decided not to join for just about all the exact reasons mentioned by you.
My interview during documents check was preceded by the question from the Chief Pilot...."You are a lot more younger and experienced than a lot of our Turkish FO's....but you may not see Command(Left Seat) for a long time....How'd you feel about that???
Was the time I finished my assessment and went back.....never to return...!!!
PS:- For the newcomer FO's......think long and hard before you join.....Coz I thought my airline was Hierarchical......These guys take the cake......and without being able to speak basic English......!!!

[Flap2]

There is no seniority in terms of getting upgraded to Wide Body.
Some get it, some do not. There seems to be no rational selection.

Foreign? Captain? No Way. Even if u have a Diploma there is no chance to get upgraded.There are no existing plans, upgrading any foreign FOs to the LH seat.

[mapaydin]

Hey Mate,
I'm quite happy to be here in Istanbul... Yes there are some issues mainly because of poor decision making and management processes, however this is my third airline and the previous two had the same issues (major network carriers). So, I think we always can find sth to complain... As you have University degree, you may be eligible for the upgrade.. But, you will be at the bottom of the seniority and believe me gotta wait longer than expected...

For the crew planning, 2 years ago it was a nightmare... With the implementation of new software they barely touch my schedule... At least, this is the case for the last 8-10 months... Average flight time per month is 70 which means no extra bucks :)

CRM within the THY is not as in 2010. With 700 expats here and lots of them as TRE/TRE on different fleets, it has improved a lot. It does not mean there are no mean people, but it is not more than the average of any other airline.

If you are from Bulgaria, you wont feel home sick and pretty sure the money you make here is worth to take a chance. Just give it a try but never loose the seniority in your current company, if, by any chance, you are on the list to be upgraded...

Have a safe flight all...

[THYFOREIGNPILOTS]

We do not recommend, seen the present situation of discrimination and extreme chauvinism, to any EU pilot to seek employment with this carrier.
The management of THY is proving itself irresponsible in its use of deceiving and unethical practices in relation to the employment of expat pilots. This starting from the recruitment phase. The number of elsewhere unthinkable actions taken so far to this extent proves our thesis. There are different groups among the THY expat pilot community with different situation but the basic problems are effecting all.
It is now evident THY is just trying to gain time in order to have enough local manpower. It would seems that to reach their goals they are willing to use all means, completely disregarding decency and the most basic civil rules of inclusion, reciprocal respect and understanding of others expectations, and to risk extremely negative media coverage for the sake of their hyper nationalism and protectionism.
The very structure of THY retrograde internal sociopolitical texture constitutes a so far insurmountable obstacle that obscures the view of available best practices beside being a threat to the safety of their operation.
We are in the process of taking the necessary steps to bring to the attention of EU authorities and the media the present situation. The adjective "European" will not be misused as marketing tool.

THY EXPAT PILOT COMMITEE

[porkflyer]

My friend from Bulgaria if you did not make the cut in real airlines and you are unemployed you can find out by your self... but you have been warned. If you have a job stick to it till you get your left seat don't be a shortsighted idiot.As per "upgrade" don't trust a word this crooks or Parc say. Flap 2 where you working for PIA before ?? Upgrade.. ah ah ah! You are already on your way out and don't even know it...:ugh:

[bob777]

I stand to be corrected but rumor is that nationality and " educational" limitation on career path in THY are to be removed. If this is the case a very sensitive initiative for those who have been working hard for the success of the company in these years.:D

[tonyflaire]

Hi guys,
Have screening coming up for DEC330, any information, especially from someone who has gone through the recent selection process would be very helpful. Also like to hear from anyone on the 330 fleet. Thanks in advance, PM is best for me. Regards.

[Sina320]

My apologies if this has already been asked, but does anyone know why Turkish has no love for EMB pilots? I just can't figure out what the difference between a CRJ-200 and EMB-145 is when it comes to piloting skills :* They don't even consider E170 and 175 guys :roll eyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just curious...

[FBW390]

As A330 Capt the main good point is you have 21 days of work then 7 days in a row, with a confirmed free return ticket home, upgradable to C class if avail. Very good if your kids are studying in your country. Worldwide network, and Istanbul is a nice base...

FBW390

[severecavok68]

Thinking about signing in as DEC A320.
Are there any Cpt. on 320? Appreciate any info about roster, off days and payment. Many overnights? How is live in istanbul?
Thank you very much
greetz
severecavok

[NoodleAir]

Just read a post by CessnaT50 that he got an EASA license along with his 777 "upgrade", all courtesy of THY.

Can someone verify that Turkey is issuing EASA licenses? I was under the impression that it is not part of EASA. They tried and succeeded their inclusion into JARs but not EASA.

In any case, does THY really have openings for NTR 777 DECs?

Many thanks!

[twentyyearstoolate]

Can someone verify that Turkey is issuing EASA licenses? I was under the impression that it is not part of EASA.

They are not Issuing EASA licences. Your impression is correct they are not part of EASA, so not possible to issue licences.

I assume a misunderstanding that the said pilot got a "Turkish" validation, or perhaps he did all the exams and got a Turkish Licence which was paid for by THY (Not recognised outside Turkey as EASA)!?

The only link with EASA to my knowledge, is that the Irish Authority will accept a Turkish TRE signing the Licence renewal in the Sim (the sims are EASA approved on 777, can't say about the others but I also think they are too).

[NoodleAir]

Thought so, thanks!

His whole post was probably a misunderstanding anyway…..

Maybe Turkey is issuing EASA "looking" license like they do with their car license plates featuring the EU blue side band and something like the star circle….
Do they?

[twentyyearstoolate]

The Licence here does have the same look and layout as the EASA.

Just like a fan of a Sports team wearing the Jersey colours.... It don't make him a sports star!;)

[kumbaya]

THY lets you do the type rating in Berlin or Rome, only the Turks do it in Istanbul.

[CessnaT50Driver]

none on my end...I know who was in the simulator with me...see my facebook page for the pictures...and I know what licenses "I" got.

Off to IST next week...with new tickets. had fun showing them at the local FSDO and ACDO...enjoy:O

[twentyyearstoolate]

I know what licenses "I" got

So THY did a Sim and gave you an EASA Licence? Had you done the required 14 exams (European exams not Turkish)? If so, then it is indeed possible.

If not, them I'm afraid you do not have an EASA Licence. You cannot believe THY has the authority to bypass the requirements and exams.

[erbuscap]

Someone going back to the US showing off his "European" license……

One that cannot differentiate between EASA and Turkish license….. sorry, licenseS (many :})

One that tries very hard to persuade everyone that "he has been there", namedropping and describing the banks, the hotel and the view from the training center….

The same that claims he has been "upgraded" to 777 skipper, NTR, with only narrow body experience and THY paid everything for him and begged him to join…..

And he is proud to have…… "new tickets" to IST (!!????!!) Wow, tickets, I got tickets…… wtf?

I wonder what you post on you FB page pal.….. would be interesting to check it out. Maybe give us a clue. We will enjoy as you suggested.

Already laughing…..

[CessnaT50Driver]

did the exams...piece of cake...but then well I am me and thats that ...

see my facebook page I posted the scores :):O

[CessnaT50Driver]

did I say "begged to join"? No ...I was lucky to get picked...

dont make things up Sky King

[erbuscap]

"you is you, and that is that" ….. and you even post your scores…...

Obviously you don't even know what we are talking about. You certainly did some exams but not the EASA exams.

You keep referring everyone to your FB page. Are we supposed to know you, are you famous? My apologies for not knowing you.
If you really are in Turkey, I am sure we will soon hear more about you.

[bob777]

If the guy is really a THY pilot it shows there is a need to do something to improve the psychological screening...:ok:

[twentyyearstoolate]

Anyone with half a brain will realise that CessnaT50Driver is a sandwich short of a picnic. Best is to just ignore his posts as he's offering no guidance or help.

[CessnaT50Driver]

well on my way now...see how it all works out...enjoy SkyKing:= Your lack of faith is disturbing but not annoying :) Skyking

[yanbancypilot]

As per CEO email we now know what will be your role on board: toilet cleaner:D ..

[GearDown3green]

Not much as a big deal, talking about Airbus rated ck , day1 psychologist test and English test trough computer on line , don't ask me way but a third of the class didn't make the next day.day 2 sim assessment very basic but very disturbing for a professional pilot, like climbing, descending same speed same vertical speed , maintain headind , 60° degrees steep turn to left & right maintain level approay one engine out and GA , third day medical first class turkish

[atescula]

Hello,
I am looking for info about the screening process. Can you please provide some info ? Thanks

[Mili86]

Hi guys,
Those who passed the screening,
Would you please give us what are they actually offering for 320/737 first officers ? ... And what issues are in there..? What kind of problems d u guys think might be ahead, for expat FOs..?

[thepilot88]

Hello guys. Is here someone that can give me some informations about Turkish airline working environment?
At the moment I'm working in a very good company but I'm flying 737 cl with no chances to upgrade as captain on jet.
Since I have been invited for the assessment for thk I would like some info about which contract r they going to offer, roster (being an expat i would like a commuting roster).
Is it cheap living in Istanbul?
I read that the basic salary is 10374 TL ( for how many hours is calculated this basic salary)?
Should you change your license when you start to work for turkish?
How long time does it take to have the possibility to upgrade as capt.
Sorry if i'm bordering with all this questions, but i have think if is worth leaving my actual company for thk:)

[7Q Off]

Any example of a B737 captain roster? How many layovers each month? Tks

[yanbancypilot]

Just forget about it. You will be overwhelmed by the number of arrogant chauvinist incompetent pricks you will have to deal with. Life on 737 is a nightmare of horrible rosters, endless day with multiple sectors to ****** up destinations, no real time off. You will be exploited. Avoid avoid avoid.:eek:

[T O G A Boy]

Can anyone advise what the roster patterns and working conditions are on the A320 fleet, please. Plus what the accomodation prices and qualities are like. Any info would be highly appreciated :ok:

[TypeIV]

Standard in Turkey is 2x double offs and the rest as single offs, every month. Sometimes they can group a couple of more days off but on the short haul forget about commuting.

They use basic ICAO ftl with many exemptions. Fatigue is a great problem and expect no free time. You will fly from both İst and SAW. Travelling between the two can sometimes take three hours, not taken into consideration for FTL, also standby days are not even counted as duty time. Not even if you are called in on that day etc. Turkish dgca keeps approving dodgier and dodgier FTL exemptions.

Accommodation is a little cheaper than in western Europe but expect at least a thousand euros a month for somewhere semi decent unfurnished.

[T O G A Boy]

Thanks for the info TYPE.:ok:

So it seems that the word 'shambles' is the proper definition of THY.

Have to rethink about considering their offer.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[TypeIV]

Well, there are worse places to be but the real achilles heel is the rostering wich brings down the life quality thus even making the sandpit alternatives more attractive, despite them being farther away (depending on where you're from of course).
The rest of the stuff can be put up with by most people if you're in it for the money and hours on a short term. If you're planning on going home for more than 1-2 days a month or travelling once in a while, forget about it unless you're going long haul.

[flaps35]

Hi guys,
If you are a expat you make a big chance to get the job.Turkey is the only country in the world where their own citizens are discriminated by their own people . Wish you goodluck.
Selamlar/Saygilar

[porkflyer]

1) Expat are still considered an anomaly and the attitude towards them is just of exploitative nature. You are not welcome..just needed, for a while.

2) Your benchmark will be the retired Turkish military pilots. A large percentage of them would not be allowed to get near to an airplane anywhere else but THY has been their retirement playground for decades.The result is the incredible series of hull losses and victims they are responsible for. A large proportion would not find a job anywhere else and their contractual power is therefore equal to zero. The insane working conditions are largely a result of this and, beside, even having more time off, most Turkish pilot would not know what to do with it.

3) Who ever went trough a conversion course in THY knows what is the level of training. A professionally depressing experience and largely a box ticking exercise.

4) The company culture is abusive and regressive in nature. Politics are heavily involved in the management .An idiotic fixed attention to form, appearance and unimportant details cast a curtain that impedes them to see the train loaded with anvils heading in their direction.

5) CRM is just a word, repeated endless time, of which,as many others in the English vocabulary, they don't understand the real meaning . Proof is the continued attempt to blame FO for the evident incompetence of commanders
with initiatives that are the very negations of it. The safety model of THY has not much cheese around the huge holes .A widespread culture of super-masculinity lies as the basis and was a factor in almost all THY accidents and its not properly dealt cause management essentially does not know what I'm talking about.

6) The working conditions on narrow body fleets are unsustainable by anyone with a minimum of self respect and willing to leave a year of two after retirement.,,if they get there. The number of recent cardiac arrests is there as a proof of this.

7) Salaries are down 30% on exchange rate and no adjustment has been provided. The incapacity to understand the needs of expat pilot is evident and any initiative in that direction will unleash the jealousy of locals.
Moving your family to Turkey is an option only if you don't have kids in school. Otherwise you will just work to pay their schooling which senselessly expensive and of mediocre quality. No sensitive initiative has been taken in any field to make expat life easier. You will be on your own with almost zero company support.

8) The continued changes on requirements , licenses and minimums are a proof of how much HR is disconnected from reality. Pilots where terminated for not holding EASA licenses and few month later they were back hiring non EASA license holder...:ugh:

9) Istanbul is not a cheap city to leave. The center if off limits due traffic and prices and the neighborhood you will end up living have been built ( sometimes over landifills ) as poorly planned agglomerate of eco- monsters.

10) Turks have a vastly delusional high opinion of themselves, their country, their past. The essentially think they can outsmart anybody and that is a bit disturbing. The result is that many found as the only option to express their real feeling towards such attitude ( since other form of communication are nearly impossible) to show them the finger and leave. Me included.

[porkflyer]

1) Expat are still considered an anomaly and the attitude towards them is just of exploitative nature. You are not welcome..just needed, for a while.

2) Your benchmark will be the retired Turkish military pilots. A large percentage of them would not be allowed to get near to an airplane anywhere else but THY has been their retirement playground for decades.The result is the incredible series of hull losses and victims they are responsible for. A large proportion would not find a job anywhere else and their contractual power is therefore equal to zero. The insane working conditions are largely a result of this and, beside, even having more time off, most Turkish pilot would not know what to do with it.

3) Who ever went trough a conversion course in THY knows what is the level of training. A professionally depressing experience and largely a box ticking exercise.

4) The company culture is abusive and regressive in nature. Politics are heavily involved in the management .An idiotic fixed attention to form, appearance and unimportant details cast a curtain that impedes them to see the train loaded with anvils heading in their direction.

5) CRM is just a word, repeated endless time, of which,as many others in the English vocabulary, they don't understand the real meaning . Proof is the continued attempt to blame FO for the evident incompetence of commanders
with initiatives that are the very negations of it. The safety model of THY has not much cheese around the huge holes .A widespread culture of super-masculinity lies as the basis and was a factor in almost all THY accidents and its not properly dealt cause management essentially does not know what I'm talking about.

6) The working conditions on narrow body fleets are unsustainable by anyone with a minimum of self respect and willing to leave a year of two after retirement.,,if they get there. The number of recent cardiac arrests is there as a proof of this.

7) Salaries are down 30% on exchange rate and no adjustment has been provided. The incapacity to understand the needs of expat pilot is evident and any initiative in that direction will unleash the jealousy of locals.
Moving your family to Turkey is an option only if you don't have kids in school. Otherwise you will just work to pay their schooling which senselessly expensive and of mediocre quality. No sensitive initiative has been taken in any field to make expat life easier. You will be on your own with almost zero company support.

8) The continued changes on requirements , licenses and minimums are a proof of how much HR is disconnected from reality. Pilots where terminated for not holding EASA licenses and few month later they were back hiring non EASA license holder...:ugh:

9) Istanbul is not a cheap city to live. The city center if off limits due traffic and prices and the neighborhoods you will end up living have been built ( sometimes over landifills ) as poorly planned agglomerate of eco- monsters.

10) Turks have a vastly delusional high opinion of themselves, their country, their past. The essentially think they can outsmart anybody. The result is that many found as the only option to express their real opinion ( since other form of communication are nearly impossible) to show them the finger and leave. Me included.

[Bus Driver Man]

I think that everyone knows your opinion by now. There's no reason to start a new thread every month or so.
You can post your valuable comments in the main THY thread, thank you.

[Scott_T]

Hi all,

I am planning on applying to THY rated 737, I have heard of a few who have upgraded to 777 after 6-12 months is this still the case? Also apparently now they are upgrading expat fo's with out degrees and giving a seniority number!

[bob777]

There is no clear answer to your question. Many changes going on. Still the "upgrade" ( you'll have the same salary and your flight time will count only 75% towards your upgrade) to 777 is now subject to you self financing the rating in advance, no more bond or so it was last time I heard. Concerning FO upgrade something is moving will see...

[porkflyer]

Bus Driver Man are you the editor of this forum. Does it disturb you aesthetically to see this post? I'm just trying to help people taking informed decision to avoid disappointments. And even Turkish Airlines have a reality check on how it is perceived. Because this is not only my experience but those of the hundreds of pilots that, so far, were disappointed and lost time and energy before taking the initiative to leave . The goodness of Turkish Airlines narrow body contract for expat is directly proportional their desperation or or inability to find another " normal" occupation...period.

[Bus Driver Man]

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/413526-turkish-airlines-thy-recruitment-merged-10.html#post8829842
(http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/413526-turkish-airlines-thy-recruitment-merged-10.html#post8829842)
You made your point in that thread. No need to start a new thread and post it again... Period.

[de facto]

Porkflyer,
Seriously,dont you think its time you see a specialist?:hmm:

[porkflyer]

Bus Driver Man.. I see by your nickname that your self respect and esteem for what was once a respected profession have dropped to a minimum. Keep driving your bus. I thought my post was so good that it deserved a dedicated thread.
De Facto you are right.. after 26 months of slavery and professionally depressing experience in THY I was really close to need the help of a mental health specialist. Luckily I had the chance to join a far better organization. Having ( a lot ) more than 7 days off and flying on average 20 hours less per month on basically the same salary helped a lot. Not to mention the fact that when I speak the official international language of aviation..everybody understand me and makes me feel less lonely....

[flydive1]

Bus Driver Man.. I see by your nickname that your self respect and esteem for what was once a respected profession have dropped to a minimum. Keep driving your bus.

That compared to flying pigs?

[psychomantic]

* FO's are flying around 70 hours a month
* Accommodation 1000-3000 tl, depends what you want
* Upgrade to widebody possible, company decides when
* I have 3-4 layovers every month
* enough time to rest, good salary
* around 700 expats at this moment

[yanbancypilot]

Lets's not mix apples with coconuts psycho. We are very happy for your "upgrade" which is not ..just a fleet change ..for which you are anyway paying for. You are probably one of the P2F kids from Lionair.. you are used to it. You would be surprised to know that many other ME airlines would not even consider you for employment seen your paid "experience" and this says it all about THY..they are taking chances by hiring you as seat warmer and English speaker while they fail to attract the right candidates. By the way pork is mostly talking about short haul fleets and the situation is actually as stated or so it was..

[psychomantic]

Well yabancypilot, I really don't know where the h*ll you're talking about. I'm an ab-initio, so I'm not from Lionair, and P2F? You're just kidding, right? The words "you are used to it", "kids" says something about your bad experience and your behavior.

So don't try to tell me something with your kind of attitude. Maybe they have used you, It won't kill you, but makes you stronger :p cheers

[CaptainProp]

* enough time to rest, good salary

Really? Since when did they change the pay in TK?

CP

[psychomantic]

Yes, really. Maybe your nose is too much in the sky and you are craving for more money. The only issue is that the Turkish lira is not stable. The are companies who are paying more, but the salary at THY is good if I compare with the most companies.

[Kapitanleutnant]

I have a question here….

Have heard that for 777 captains, you're only hired as a relief captain for all ULR's (most flights) with an occasional shorter flight to get a takeoff/landing to maintain currency….

Might anyone have info on this?

Thanks for your help

Kap

[kumbaya]

There are no relief captains in THY !

Anyways, there are quite a lot of happy guys in THY on narrow and wide body.
Its not perfect, but certainly not as horrific as written here by some people.
Its always the same guys complaining here.
I guess best is to get to Istanbul and try to talk to some of the 'yabanci'. As far as i can see most of us will be happy to tell you honestly whats going on

[Kapitanleutnant]

Thanks Kumbaya…

So…. on the ULR flights for example, are the captains designated who will do the departure from IST to the destination? On the return leg back to IST, is there a swap where the 2nd captain from the first sector will be primary/operating captain back to IST?

Maybe the nomenclature is different for Turkish and just trying to understand how the ULR flights with two captains are operated as to who will get to operate and who will get to augment for each particular sector.

Thanks again Kumbaya.

Kap

[daytonapilot]

I am a F/O on 330 Fleet for the last 3.5 years and my experience is good so far with TK. I was on 320 fleet for a year and got upgraded. I will break it down here and if you have any questions u can pm.. I wont waste my time arguing with the folks who had a bad experience on Turkish and cant get it over with for the last 2 years :)

* 75 to 85 HR each month 2 or 3 ER's (Mostly 2 ER's) and 2 or 3 mid-range flights never had more than 6 flight duties per month for the last 18 months.
* Best roster you can get on 777. Usually 3 flights a month.
* I get 8 days off when i ask however i do not request it every month.
* Since January 2015, my basic salary is 15' 200TL and every 4 months i get paid app x. 7500TL bonus.
* Overtime pay is about 170TL per block hour after 70hrs.
* I receive plus or minus 500TL for transportation each month.
* If i fly on Sunday there is additional 400TL for each Sunday you fly. Which i do twice or sometimes triple times a month.
* Layover hotels are very nice %95 of the time. Except in few countries such as Lagos. But, i really dont care since you dont go there every month.
* Layover allowance is 52 USD per day in most countries. However, for flights into Japan it is about 110 USD. If your layover is in Europe it is paid in Euro.
* Private health insurance is paid by the company. Only 20% copay required for doctor visits which is about 30TL in most cases. I only used it 3 times in last 4.5 years and pretty happy with it.
* Staff travel is very good, ZED fares with almost 120 different carriers, two confirmed tickets for expats, and since last few months we have unlimited standby ticket on TK with very low fares. This month i went to usa fırst time on a standby ticket for 200 USD round trip. I am a big time traveler, never had any problems. %95 of the time i go business even though my ticket is economy.
*You can be anywhere in europe in max 5 hrs if your home is next to the ocean. Most Europe destinations are served two or three times a day.
*Accommodation wise; I purchased my own flat and furniture in Asian part of the city where things are better. Some expat guys share apartments and pay high rent prices. Well if you are lazy enough to live little bit away from the airport than you deserve to pay high rent prices.
* Transportation is no problem since i take subway most of the time. Sometimes i drive my own car depending on my flight duty. Most ER flight leave either very early or very late and never struggled in the traffic up until now.
* Simulators are relaxed and if you do ur studying its good enough.
* People are very friendly, You will be doing much better if you want to learn about the culture and people.

Overall, for a new and an experienced F/O Turkish airlines is a good place to be. Pay is good, close to Europe, on wide body u can get days off and commute, relaxed atmosphere. Now after the new memo u can get upgraded if you have a high school diploma also but with 6000 hrs logged. If you have 4 year degree than its 4500hr. Turkish airlines and turkey is tricky at the beginning but if you do your research and play it smart and ask your way out, than its very layed back. If you make things problem for yourself than it will come back to you.. Just relax, enjoy life besides flying, don't waste time with every small detail's and rest will all fall down. With that happy note, have a nice week and safe flying folks..

[daytonapilot]

On ULR flight at Turkish Airlines.

Composition of the crew is

Case 1 Two captains and one first officer
Case 2 One captain and two first officer one being P3.

First case: Captain 1 flies with FO the first leg while captain 2 doesn't do anything except relieving captain 1 when he is on rest and sits on right when FO is on rest. Return is other way around Captain 2 flies the return leg.

Case 2. Captain flies the first or return leg. P3 relieves the captain. p4 or p5 on the right seat.

Fully augmented crew 4 pilots.. 2 captains and 2 first officers.

First crew flies the first leg, while other crew rests in the back. Return flight other way around.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Thanks Daytonapilot. Good explanation.

Check your PM's

Kap

[TypeIV]

Daytonapilot, how many days of annual leave do you have as an f/o? What is the maximum block days off in a row?

[daytonapilot]

20 Days for the first 5 years you are with the company. After 5 years 26 days.
Split is 12 winter and 8 summer days. Sundays are not counted in so in reality you have. 13 and 9 days.
Off days can be added before or after your vacation days.
This year i had 17 days for winter 13 days for summer time.
If you ask them to add your days off before or after your vacation, than you have to suck it up for the rest of the month and fly with minimum rest between duties.

Turkish airlines is not good when it comes down to vacation days. Don't expect 42 Days off vacation like in the middle east carriers.

[Kapitanleutnant]

I think the reality of leave with the Middle East carriers is such that… while they advert 42 days at all their road shows, they generally only offer the legal minimum required (30 in EK's case) and then give you little groups of 4 days off here and there to round out the 42, which for most of us is a complete waste because it certainly won't leave enough time for any meaningful, restful vacation, even to Europe!!

K

[yanbancypilot]

Are you Turkish psychomantic? Cause you know there is no ab initio for expat my dear? For what I 'm told the most part of recruits are P2F.. many from Lionair ,Augsburg Dash 8 kids FO with no experience the rest is made of rejects of EK, EY, and QR that did not make the cut. To them it seems paradise..they even get paid. Many don't even know what an really airline is coming from shady third world outifits so do not listen. THY has long way to go to become a good airline for those not having some particular interest in living in Turkey and having other opportunities...

[bob777]

Daytona pilot... well..can you define very good staff travel? is it possible to define as such two tickets per month ( locals do not even get that..) ? In my previous airline every employee had unlimited ID90 you could buy on line and have deducted automatically from your salary in a metter of seconds. I guess your previous airline had no staff travel... :sad:

[de facto]

Wouldnt 2 tickets/month enough to go home anyways?
Pilots will always be pilots,wont they?:p:p

[Ottoforce]

Daytona,
On leave !

Contract says 20 days up to 5 years 26 over 5 years ?no! an edict was made last year that the first year doesn't count so it's 26 days after 6 years, this was new and well timed as most of the Yabancis who joined 2010 would have been entitled to 26 days after 5 years.
Another goodwill jesture from the punishment police.
OTTO:ugh::ugh:

Written from a very warm and cosy beach hog roast this evening.
Ps left 1 years ago because of this problem saying one thing and doing another .

[bob777]

De Facto... the world industry standard in major legacy airlines and many other carrier even low cost....is unlimited ID90..for every one, all employees. It is actually a source of revenue as staff travels mostly on empty seat...It cost nothing to the company and sends a positive message. Beside gives the opportunity to employee to enrich culturally and open their minds...

[de facto]

Travelled very little,couldnt tell you:E

[bob777]

As I mentioned it a new improvement arrived..now you can purchase your ID CED tickets on line..and it works..

[7Q Off]

How many layovers per month for a 737 captain? tks. :ok:

[TypeIV]

1-2wks is normal per month

[desperado78]

anybody have any idea if you flight a B737 or A320 how many free days do you have in a month? (turkish airlines) thankss people.:ok::ok:

[TypeIV]

2+2+2+1+1 unless on wide :ok:

[Oscar84]

And what about the possibility to be upgraded from the cpt a320 to the left seat on the 330?

[desperado78]

Please, i would like to know how the screening is in Turkish, Can anybody Help me?.:ok::ok:

If I am sucessful,who decides the aircraft that I Fly ?:ok::ok::}:}

[bob777]

I take the time...

Standard screening. PSYCH, GROUP, SIM, INTERVIEW etc etc...
You will fly the type you are rated on.
Don't count on move to 330 never happened if not for those with previous 330 time. Anyway it will take quite a bit ( years) as you have thousand of local captains in front.
Days off on narrow body 8 as TypeIV states, sometimes 4 attached..commuting quite tight anyway.

[GF4RCE]

bob777:
Don't count on move to 330 never happened if not for those with previous 330 time

not true.. few senior expat Capt from the A320 have transitioned to the 330 and 777.. the fact is that they are getting in excess of 30 widebodies ( by the end of 2016 ) means that there is a high probability of expact movements between the fleets...
also a very strong rumour that they are in negotiation to hire 2x 380 at the moment as they are running into slot issue with some destinations as locals authorities are resisting increased frequency so THY most likely will increase the seat capacity..

and they trashed the university requirement for F.O upgrades (both locals and expats) and now require 4500 if you have a degree or YOK equivalence or 6500hs without it ..

spoke to a few friends from EK about the time to command and when you compare EK to THY ... if THY stays true by removing the uni qualification all together along with upgrading expats then time to command will shorter in THY.. (110+ narrow buses, 90+737's 40+ Widbodies.. plus the talk for a possible A350/777 order (H.T comments at the pilot meeting) rumours of the 380 bite... and the bigger airport being built just north.. the growth and progression looks more promising at THY for now... but this is aviation and as such NO guarantees at all

[BUSDU]

hey bro i mite be having a assessment in the next few weeks in istanbul, i applied as a experienced 320 f/o, do you have any gauges on what to expect for the interview i will have in istanbul ? thanks for your help really appreciated

regards

[Alena33]

The only thing that you can say at the moment is that there are no expats FO upgraded to Captain on any fleet at this moment in THY. Everything are rumours and promises but nothing has been done on this subject at this time... And all the rules on seniority list in the Company and regulations about this subject are on benefit of local pilots...

In the other hand, most of the Captains in EK are expats.... So, you can think about this...

Many brokers are telling some false information to the FO applicants about the conditions in THY: more salarie than the real one (not to mention the rate euro-turkish lira), possibility to quick upgrade (no expat has been upgraded till now), some bonus for housing (this is just for Captains on long haul) and other things (not many things more).... Be careful with this, ask for detailed information and compare it with your colleagues flying in THY...

Have nice flights!!

[yanbancypilot]

I heard THY is in deep troubles in crewing its aircraft and I'm not surprised. The self serving and utilitarian attitude has been uncovered and its quite righteously hitting back on their stubborn heads like a boomerang. G4FORCE..mate stop lying. THY has been lying on contract duration , license requirement, career opportunities and so on for years now. I still have friends there , some more than 5 years on narrow body and no one has been moved to long haul if not a few with previous long haul experience and just to make it possible for the new chief pilot ( a Turkish DEC) to move himself. Expat FO at the contrary have been apparently sent to the back of the seniority list with no explanations to make space for the sons of the heroic local "hocam" in what, if true, can be defined as a demonstration of the real attitude of this people that has no definition.
No FO has been upgraded and there are just rumors about it. Still I really would not like to be in the shoes of any expat in an upgrade course there, most probably a nightmare seen the evident general xenophobic attitude.. imagine TRIs now "even" having to promote a " yabancy"....
For the rest all information are available here. THY remains a good option for young P2F kids unexperienced furloughed youngsters ( not really what the company needs seen the appalling professional level and the possibility the otto- manic dream being suddenly interrupted by a further accident.. God wish not ! ) people that failed screening with EK and EY ect, for CPT coming from some shady/secondary outfits, for retired long haul captains ( they got the best deal with housing provided) looking for some extra money in a forgiving environment , other desperate individuals and even sometimes, I heard from some friends ,for fake pilots. The comparison with EK makes me laugh. First of all with a strong dollar EK salary have skyrocketed and now a captains package is close to 2000000 Euro ( with one kid) and for a senior first officer ( this how they call "co pilots" there) 140000. This against 70000 euro and 40000 euro all included in THY once deducted your living expenses in Turkey. The professional environment in not comparable. Many THY " hocams" ( meaning "master" how the local co- pilots ( well they deserve to be called like that most of the time) address the Kaptain.. ) would not be anywhere near an airplane in EK. Than add 42 days of leave ( against 20) no deduction on sick leave ( THY cuts your salary) real staff travel benefit and so on... Dubai is not really the best place on hearth but if you think Istanbul is better think twice. Beside you will be left on your own and close to no one speaks English
THY will eventually get rid of all expat. A quota system has already been approved and implemented in all other smaller carriers ( max 10% expat) leading to termination of contracts. THY is just temporarily exempted and remember your contract is permanent but your work permit is not.
The mix of arrogance, incompetence, retrograde management, non existent FTL and resulting "suicide" rosters on short haul fleet, and the risk THY is taking in crewing its planes makes it a time bomb you want to stay well clear ..if in anyway possible.

[despegue]

Yabancipilot,

First of all, do not compare living costs in IST to Dubai. Housing is at least double in the Desert.

Dubai is a golden prison. Outside the city, there is NOTHING to do. 4 months a year, it isimpossible to be outside.
In Istanbul, you have nature, sea and a MUCH better climate.

TK offers unlimited ID90 in C and Y for flightcrew, just like other IATA carriers.
Somthe same as with EK

I know of several people happy with TK, including their training standards. And no, they are NOT rejects.:ugh:

At least in Turkey, they have women's rights and are a secular country, not an Emirate buying their safety by sponsoring Al Quaida and IS.

[twentyyearstoolate]

The biggest problem I think is the unstable/rapidly declining Lira against the US dollar.

Long Haul (especially 777) is the only way to go here. Short haul is like a different company. The schedule/deal the short haul guys get is terrible.

[bob777]

Dear Despegue EK EY QR are providing for accommodation or giving a substantial amount of money for it. I have friends in Dubai that bought villas paid with company allowance weathered the storm and are now leaving with a couple of million dollar in their pocket plus end of service and all this in little more than 7 years. All I know for my self is that those having a chance in the Gulf generally take it as it is, objectively, still the best deal around all considered from a pilot career perspective .Even more if you have kids in school as they will pay for it as well. And please do not disseminate false information because THY is only offering, beside wide body captains that get a free confirmed business ticket per month as well, two ID 90 tickets per month to expat and not even that to local pilots.
You can still buy ZED or CED tickets but they are substantially more expensive.

[yanbancypilot]

Despegue I still have close friends there. Even local ( those that can ) are joining for the Gulf Airlines and that says it at all about THY. Who would leave his own country and expanding national flag carrier? For the rest it is evident that you don't have a clue of what you talking about... well you must evidently be a "co-pilot" :ok:

[de facto]

Cost of Living Comparison Between Dubai, United Arab Emirates And Istanbul, Turkey (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Arab+Emirates&country2=Turkey&city1=Dubai&city2=Istanbul)

[yanbancypilot]

Nice try..DeFacto. Sorry but I have to remind you that housing, and utilities are provided for in EK.
So you are left with education ..that is as well provided up to University for up to 3 kids ( and that is lot lot of money) and is instead extremely expensive ( up to 12000 USD per kid in primary school) and out of your pocket in Istanbul ( tried that on my skin) Than we can talk about cars ( 250% more expensive due absurd taxes in Turkey ( and fuel at almost 1,5 USD per liter. Than try and go rent in a nice neighborhood not one that seems having been by a post atomic fall out or built on garbage ...and you tell me the price. ..The only way THY could become barely competitive is by rising salaries by 20% , providing accommodation allowance and/ or commuting roster to everyone. 2 dimes less on milk or 5 dollar on a pizza are not enough my friend get real..

[twentyyearstoolate]

I have to agree with Yabancypilot.

Whilst on Long Haul it is an ok gig, the realties here is the salary just doesn't cut it, and with an extremely unstable currency the risk is too large. Especially if you have School age children, then that's when it would really bite you in the ass.

Yabancypilot says increase by 20%. Yes, but AT LEAST that much, as in 1 year that 20% will be more like a 10% rise and I'm not exaggerating.

[bob777]

Actually fuel is well above 2$ per liter...:eek:

[Fluke]

The wide body THY Captain position is a commuting contract not an expatriate one. Housing and schooling are not provided ( I doubt if the facilities even exist), because HR expects you are travelling home to see your families in your own country.
Narrow body and Fist Officer contracts are extremely marginal and could perhaps be described as opportunistic by THY.
One golden rule of all foreign contracts not only pilots, is to avoid being paid in the local currency. The Turkish Lira is volatile ! But interest rates at 9.25% keep things fairly stable for the short term.
I am not throwing too many stones at the guys and girls employed by the gulf carriers because the way things are in this region currently, anything could happen and likely affect all of us.

[Pizzaguy]

Hi all,

I am trying to figure out the B777 CPT actual pay in THY.
Can somebody just trow in here the numbers?

BASIC salary:
Pay per hour:
Accommodation (hotel):
Education (if any):
Layover allowance (if any):

Plus:

Training bond? How long before it's gone? Does it go proportionally?

Any pension scheme contribution like in EK?

Loss of licence?

Medical?

Dental?


In other words anything related to money so that we can all put it together and make a serious financial comparison ..

Thanks in advance.

(PS I know some numbers are already out there but would be nice to see it all together once and for all). :-)

[yanbancypilot]

Pizzaguy..before committing to THY consider the following

1) Salary is 8700 euro plus 600 for accommodation or hotel in lieu. No other benefit if not a private medical insurance with no dental coverage and a ridiclous loss of licence ( 100K USD) .Bringing your family there is a no go. Education is extremely expensive, housing in decent area will not be below 1500 euro car extremly expensive ( 180%++ tax )
2) Yo will fly 4 ER flights separated by 48 hours rest. You will have 7 days block off days and the rest will be filled by home stby and reserves.
3) Turkish Lira has lost 30% of its value and almost 40% against the dollar. The geopolitical situation is not comforting ( a few bombs and suicide bombers) and an increasingly authoritarian regime are not really projecting a positive light. The upcoming election could be another set back for the currency.
4) In THY there is peculiar pilot classification. As a new joiner you will be given a C2 status that would mean you will fly as FO on left seat. Once you will get a C1 status you will still be assigned flight with other local C1 and guess who will be commander again Often they will scare the **** out of you....I remember the stories I was told..
5) THY is NOT and expat airlines. They are just filling seats. The contract is permanent as long as they renew you work permit ( every year) and there is already a quota system imposed by the local ( joke) DGAC of 10% expat max.THY is at the moment exempted but nobody knows until when. They are just pure opportunists.
On narrow body sleets the situation is close to slavery.90 plus hours, no commuting, no benefits, max 4 days off often after a late finish and before an early start just after midnight to some very dodgy destination. I would think twice to leave a job anywhere else to join that circus...on any fleet but if you really desperate...

[Calmcavok]

I see TK have put one in the grass at Kathmandu.

Turkish A330 suffers nose gear collapse in Kathmandu - 3/4/2015 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/turkish-a330-suffers-nose-gear-collapse-in-kathmandu-409727/)

Busted minima? The viz looks poor, and I don't recall any CAT II/III installation there.

[Farrell]

Would have been an unmitigated disaster had they not had degrees!

[Alloy]

THY look as if they were thankfully very lucky indeed at Kathmandu not to add to this horrific list of about one fatal crash every five years or so...
Turkish Airlines plane crashes since 1970 (http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/turkish.htm)

[bob777]

The surprising thing is that Borajet is as far as I know flying wet lease for THY..and still, even if it is a one year contract (but seen the lack of pilot in Turkey we can assume it will much longer than that) they offer better conditions than their lessee..housing, transportation and block off days...apparently ..pretty weir.!

CAE Parc Aviation on behalf of our client Borajet are seeking Embraer 190 E-Jet Captains

Duration: 12 months renewable
Base: Adana/Ankara/Istanbul - TBC
Roster Pattern: 9 days off per month
Screening dates and location: February, March and April 2015 - Istanbul
Commencement Date: ASAP
Accommodation provided / Ground transportation provided: Yes

Total time: Minimum of 4000 hours total time
PIC time on type: Minimum of 1.000 hours Pilot in Command on jet aircraft over 27,000kg
Time on type: 1,000 hours PIC on any Embraer E-Jet type

Licence: ICAO/JAA/FAA - All licences accepted
English language proficiency level: Minimum ICAO level 4

[TypeIV]

Bob, what is the salary at Borajet?

Most probably it's as always, they start ops with a new type and need backup from outside. Once there are enough locals to fill the seats, I'll leave the guessing of what till happen regarding your renewal to other people :}

[highfive]

Turkish B777 Captain pay around 21000 / month , turkish lira.
Using todays currency rates that equals
£5400 €7440

There is a 5% nominal tax rate.

So, possibly the industrys lowest pay for type rated 777 pilots ?

A few years ago it was divide by 2.5 to the £. Today its around 4. Go figure.

[airbusfun1969]

Does anybody knows how to convert my ICAO ATPL into Turkish ATPL.

Thanks

[Mmv150561]

I am waiting to be asigned the TRTO for the 777 Does anybody have an idea about cost and place to be considered?
Thanks

[latetonite]

Do I hear again somebody paying for his type rating, but now not even knowing how much? This isn't real, is it?

[TypeIV]

Turkish B777 Captain pay around 21000 / month , turkish lira.
Using todays currency rates that equals
£5400 €7440

There is a 5% nominal tax rate.

So, possibly the industrys lowest pay for type rated 777 pilots ?

A few years ago it was divide by 2.5 to the £. Today its around 4. Go figure

Money isn't everything.

Paid accomodation, nice roster, commuting contract and 3hrs from western Europe with tickets paid home with plenty of block days off is not a too shabby deal.

Of course you could make a few grand more in the sandpit with back to back long haul, your normal off days being considered as annual leave and being 8hrs away from home with difficulties getting on the plane on a standby-ticket due to the huge amount of foreigners trying to commute.

The 737 gig however, is a different story.

[polax52]

It looks like a shocking and awful deal to me. That's a relatively Junior F/O salary not an experienced 777 captain salary.

[cucuotto]

I thoroughly investigated the contract and I have friends there.. not for long. Paid accommodation is an hotel room you have to vacate every flight or 2000 lira which would not rent you anything better than a 1 bedroom (may be not even that) in a decent neighborhood. The "plentitude" of days of is 7 plus traveling. This for wodebody on narrow body... just **** and horrible rosters.
Add to this a mere 20 day of leave, deduction fo rm salary if you get sick ( if they don't fire you for "insufficient performance ) and last but not least that you will be flying as an FO in left seat and here it goes your fantastic deal. Beside with the USD at par with Euro you make almost double the money in the Gulf.. Heard more and more pay to fly FO CPT joining... does that can..are going elsewhere..and many many are leaving. I think is time to offer a better deal...or no way they will ever find the people they say they need.

[de facto]

Surely thats basic pay ,no?:}

[cucuotto]

Commission to review competition from Gulf-based airlines | EurActiv (http://www.euractiv.com/sections/transport/eu-look-unfair-competition-gulf-based-airlines-312941)

How about Turkish Airlines and state aids?

[furbpilot]

How is that this thread got so silent? Is THY out of the radar?

[porkflyer]

The not so good impression made on hundreds of former expat employee is kind of hitting back.. not many applicants I heard..struggling to recruit if not P2F.. heard they had to start upgrading expat as they are really really desperate...and that says it all. Good luck to them..just wonder how they will be abused in the process..

[LJ35A]

Hi.

Does anyone know if they call pilots with 1100h more less (200h piston and 900h light jets) and also with university degree?

Thanks

[Flap2]

Just a very brief update:

The Cpt. upgrade without university degree is a ponzi scheme.
6500H. Guess whos gonna be in front of you concerning the seniority.
U? or the locals...;)

NO more upgrades for foreign FOs from 737 to 777.

I presume "career progress" is not the right word....

Cheers,

[Kirks gusset]

Never seen or heard of a Yabanci FO being upgraded on any fleet to Captain, so don't worry about seniority list..Regarding 777 , still moving foreigners over from 737 and some new guys are coming directly to 777. University degree thing has been done to death on this forum, nothing new there. What has changed is ex military guys can get upgrade 3 years after LPC date, so " fast track" for them. 6500 hrs is only 6.5 years, not long in the industry to become a Captain compared with other airlines circa 10/12 years.

[de facto]

not long in the industry to become a Captain compared with other airlines circa 10/12 years.
True but quite longer than the captain making machine that Ryan Air is....
Longest ive been an FO was 14 months..so yes 6.5 is a damn long time...to wait 12-14 years you better be having a home based job in a financially strong airline...

[Payscale]

20 years to command in SAS if you are upgrading today and thats on to an A320, so 7-8 years is a walk in the park for those guys

[Don Corleone]

THY haven't upgrade any foreigner till now and you can't trust them they will in the future, regardsless of what they say.

[Kirks gusset]

From what I hear SXS do actually upgrade foreigner FOs, many Dutch guys in process with minimum 4 years experience so if you look at the THY "group" and exclude THY/LTH but include SXS,SXD the system does provide for " early upgrade" of course, to enter THY mainline as a DEC from the other " group" companies you would need to meet the requirement of THY mainline, probably means flying as a Captain in SXS for 4 more years or so. As I said, don't worry about upgrade as a foreigner FO in THY mainline because it will never happen while the sun shines;;)

[kumbaya]

Guys, the first yabanci fo's are currently doing their upgrade in THY.
As far as I know these are non university degree guys, others have been asked to submit all documents etc again to see if they are elligble for the upgrade.

With regards to the 777 upgrade, i have no clue what's going on.

[furbpilot]

Sure is they are struggling to find pilots left or right seat on all fleets. Many are leaving as well. A strong USD has made the Gulf more and more attractive and THY salary and conditions lag behind even more seen the weak TL. The main issue is the inability to admit their shortcomings and acknowledge the fact that expat have different needs. Moving to Istanbul a family is a big issue without any sort of benefit.. Rosters remain s a big issue on narrow body with min time off. The 4 block day off they think of as a benefit and max 20 days of leave plus salary deduction for sick leave and few other draconian rules do not help.Few other practices do not seem to fit into a major global airline. The benchmark as some one correctly said are still local ex military pilots working their asses off to maintain their spoiled kids in as ineffective as expensive private schools and uncritically taking it as it comes . Quality and quantity cannot go together.Overall their expansion ambitions seems unrealistic..but I belieive they have the capability to find solutions once they will get rid of some "ballast". A few holes in the cheese remains aligned and the expansion will make them bigger unless some radical change will happen soon. This also in terms of expat T&C. Not much would be needed to attract the right candidates ( starting with equal conditions on all fleets) and not Lion Air P2F and turboprop kids... not really what THY needs.

[twentyyearstoolate]

I just got an email from a contract agency for THY stating "20% pay increase Effective Immediately"

Is there something I'm unaware of...cause no one at THY has been told. Why can agencies state this total BS and get away with it??

I guess at THY you can get 20% pay increase in 1 year but still have no change in US$. There will always be pay rises in Turkish Lira, but the important question is what it translates to in a real currency?

[7Q Off]

Where you guys live in istambul? Which are the best neighborhoods? Rent costs?

Best wishes

[bob777]

Expect at least 3500 to 4400 TL for a decent apartment in a nice neighborhood. Someone says Istanbul is cheap... I find it very expensive. To have a comparable life style, Europe is much much cheaper. Try buy a car, put fuel in iti..go out for dinner in a decent place..they will rip you off. If you want to live in some peripheral areas.. it becomes cheaper but your quality of life goes down vertically and you will really feel you are not in Europe.Beside driving is vastly ....impossible.

[kumbaya]

You're looking in the wrong neighbourhoods. You can find very decent and new apartments in good area's for half that money.
Its basically the same in every big city, downtown is more expensive etc.

[twentyyearstoolate]

You're looking in the wrong neighbourhoods. You can find very decent and new apartments in good area's for half that money.
Its basically the same in every big city, downtown is more expensive etc.

BULLSH##!!

Where?? Halkali maybe, which is an isolated dump.

Come up with some evidence and say which areas, cause I have NEVER seen the price you're referring to for NEW apartments in GOOD areas.

[7Q Off]

Tks, which neighbourhoods you guys recomend? Any realestate agent to recomend? Any good website to recomend?

We are a couple no kids.

Best wishes

[foswillruletheworld]

http://www.hurriyetemlak.com/

On the right top choose the british flag
Car prices and the gas are off the hook. However a decent house and living(dining and some others) are not inaffordable.

[7Q Off]

thanks foswillruletheworld, If I apply it would be for CPT. I am trying to find what can I do with the salary they offer.

[porkflyer]

I recommend you stay as far as possible from that outfit. Don't get fooled.
You will end flying 1000 hours in 11 month. Add to this that Istanbul has one of the worst quality of life in the world, packed with cars, no greenery, absurd construction and very expensive you will end up living in some dump as I did ( Halkali) to save some money form your constantly eroded ) salary. Istanbul in Europe? Think twice. Its an acceptable gig if you are a retired legacy 777 captain looking for some post retirement cash with hotel and commuting. For the rest just AVOID.

[bob777]

Pork I can agree with part of what you say and still on a lower note. There have been many issues with this THY expat experiment. Some are still ongoing...some have been solved and many will be as they approach EASA.

[Flap2]

As the new rule implied by THY for the foreign 737 FOs( no upgrade to 777 if in excess of 1000-1500TT) the ones already mentioned, are lookin for some of the various openings in the ME.
Thats the reason why they put the majority of their cadets on to the 737 fleet. Almost no (yabancis) are joining the 737 fleet. Kudos.


Cheerio

[ManualFlight]

I feel a little drunk or I may have lost my english skills.... WHAT?!
They wouldn't allow a foreign 737-FO to transition onto the 777 if the individual has more than 1500 hours (total or 737-time)? Jesus christ, this is going to be a hell of a career then. The transition to the 330-fleet is not affected?

I learned that they are short of staff on the '37. How's the situation on the narrowbody Airbus? Are non-rated F/O's joining on Boeing and Airbus?

Any insiders around?

[7Q Off]

Does the company provides you transport to-from the airport or you need to get your own transport?

Tks

[foswillruletheworld]

http://www.pprune.org/8940283-post26.html

Just some general view

[bob777]

You are on your own for transport to from airport.

[Flap2]

Its 1500TT. It basically excludes all the yabanics.

About the 320 330 transition i dont know.

A Bob said. There is no transportation included.

[fourgolds]

Cessna t50 driver .

Please check your pm,s.

Tks
4g's

[bahabel]

I have question about the international school near to the Airport and decent place to live with Family.

I'm joining THY as A320 Captain very soon.

Need useful information, very appreciate.

[cucuotto]

For a decent place( in western terms) in a decent neighborhood plan not less that 4500 TL if you need more than two bedroom make it... 5000.
International schools... range is 12000/15000 euro per kid per year and that is elementary. I ruled out the option..:=

[FMSPEED]

hey folks just an off topic question.

I have about 2300 total time with 2000 on jets over 40 tons, Do you think turkish would consider me even though the minimums are 3k total ?

[SurvivedJZR]

Hi guys,

I wanted to find replies on actual working conditions (Spring 2015) and opened a new thread: Turkish Airlines THY working conditions - worse than announced? (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/561139-turkish-airlines-thy-working-conditions-worse-than-announced.html#post8969984)

This thread here is initially more concerned regarding interview etc, therefore actual pilots would better find that new therad ....

Cheereoooo

[sbarz]

joined THY years ago , was very optimistic.
Instead, bad bad bad.
On 320 no way to commute, if you bring family to Istanbul is even worse : city very difficult, if you live in center you need hrs to go to airport if you live close to airport gonna to divorce and no international school nearbye ( kids hours to go and hrs to come back in traffic to reach it).
Rent very expensive if you want something decent.
schedule stable but bad ( never ever been so tired), basically work , sleep , work again.
salary deduction in case of sick leave.
planning deaf to requests, don't even answer to it ( unless you find other ways).
with current exanchage rate and expenses its virtually and pratically impossible to save money.
on other fleet probably better, but difficult to get there due to very erratic seniority list.
NO SALARY INCREASE as they post to attract new pilots and NO COMMUTING ROSTER .

[F14Smith]

Hey guys, please, B777 F/O salary/month, gross and in the hand???
other question, who decides to which aircraft you will fly? i flew B737 and currently B767 as F/O.
Thanks a lot.:ok:

[bahabel]

Hi Kumbay
Seems you know the City of Istanbul and the Areas,
Do you have any information about the International school near the Ataturk Airport and decent area to live?
I'm joining the THY very soon.
Thanks,

[furbpilot]

Bahabel all informations are here..can you read?
F14 If you are current on 737..you might fly 737..or you can self sponsor your 777 type rating. One guy I know previously flying 767 paid 32000 euro.

[F14Smith]

i´m currently flying B767 as F/O in Brazil and applied to B777/787.
Just Curiosity!
Thanks!!!:ok:

[Wandering.Aviator]

Quick question. I'm current and recently typed on the 777. What is the minimum time on type to be selected? Currently sitting on 8000 tt but only 100 on the 777. Thanks!

[CopBoni]

Hello Guys, I went to the assessment in the beginning of May.
Some important point that I have seen there.

1- True, thats alot of traffic. It tooks 1:30h from Hotel to Turkish Training Center everyday.
2- They dont pay for your shuttle. Its $20 Lyra to go and $20 more to come back to the hotel. If you go until the last day, I will spend $200 Lyra only with transportation.
3- Have to pay for your "feeding"
4- Hope you stay at Ibis Hotel, because Akgun Hotel it's far from be 2 stars (but it says its 5 stars).
5- Inside Turkish facility building ,any building, there was no signs in english only in their language.
6- They dont give upgrade on their flights for candidates.

Ok, lets go for this assessment.

First Day:
Around 9am we had the English exam, pretty simple. Dont need to be worried. You have to speak with a computer, no big deal.

Around 12pm, was group assessment. Just be relax, be yourself. Dont talk to much and dont be too quiet.

Seconde Day:
Documentation day, seems easy, but many fellas failed on this day.
Turkish people want translated documents (from your language to english), they love stamp in everything.
Those who did not had "Recomendation letter" or did not had Translated Documents has failed too, just because of that.

in the afternoon, around 5pm local time, you will receive an email if you passed on the process or if you failed.

Third Day:
Simulator. No big deal.
Visual Pattern, A/THR off, Bird ON.
Engine Failure after V1, ECAM actions completed, request vectors for ILS , Go Around Single Engine, New Vectors, full landing.

They want to see CRM, Manual Flight, Decision Making... and be stabilized by 1000 ft AGL.

Fourth Day:
Interview..... but for me was a Problem day !

Now there was only 10, on the first day we were 30.

Everybody waiting in the room, Captain Boris was nice to everyone.
Each one is called for the interview with Capt. Boris and came back smiling.
When they called me, they took me to a different room and Capt Boris was not there, only two HR attendants.
Asked how was my simulator, said it was good.
After that one said to me:
"Ok, we have to stop your process because you have failed on the group assessment day and was not supposed to be here."
WTF ???
I asked "What? Its impossible, Received email every day with 'sucess news' and to return on the other day. Spent money and time to be here to hear that from you?"
She said that was a mistake, said sorry and that I was out of process and there was nothing to do.
Happened to more 3 people !!! DAMN !
Its so amateur to treat people like this.

A friend went to the assessment one week after me, and happened the same with him and his Capt.

Can not understand why Turkish Airlines treat candidates this way, ridiculous.


If you are looking for carreer,from First Officer.. forget. Take the job, and look for a better one. They say they upgrade to wide and left seat, but no expat have been promoted on the last 4 years.


Well, good lucky everyone.

[bigdaviet]

Is the 777 FO gig commutable from UK?

Also what is the upgrade situation? Non existent it seems from previous posts?

[TypeIV]

777 commutable, forget about an upgrade. Might happen but nothing to stake your career on. Some people went there counting on being upgrade once having the hours and are disappointed.

[tongo-sierra]

T7 fly 2 or 3 flights a month , the rest is stby , so you can t go home on stby days. Upgrade is up to the company , not exist at the moment.

[Feather44]

The best location is YESELKOY (not sure of the writing)

It's less than 7 min from the airport (about 15TL for one way)
It looks like a small village on the shore line. You will find lots of nice bars & restaurants as well grocery stores, walking path along the beach and green areas a bit everywhere. In few words... a sharming place!!!

I do beleive many expats are living there, leading to a little booming in the estate market. Anyway, u can find a 2 bedrooms apartment for about 2000 TL/month.

Perfect place for kidds and housewifes.

About the schools, sorry but I don't have a clue.

All the best ;)

[Kapitanleutnant]

As an update:

TK has changed the assessment to a 3 day process… much more easy for those of us who have busy rosters at our current airline. All was very organized and the staff at TK were most welcoming to our group… quite friendly indeed. Overall, a good experience.

K

[paokara]

Leaving EK for Turkish ?

Is it more money for 777 captain at Turkish?

[foswillruletheworld]

paokara,
Money in TK is less than EK, however you do 3 flights a month.
I think after a certain age and experience, when you have saved enough, money is not an issue anymore but the quality of life...

[Kapitanleutnant]

foswillruletheworld has it spot on!!!

At some point, the money is not worth the aggravation of being at EK and I've reached that point… and that's fine for me. I'm in this for job satisfaction, something which few of us Ek pilots have these days.

Foswillruletheworld knows me and understands this. If you're not happy in your job, you can't be successful….

K

[SOPS]

Enjoy Kap! As you know, I'm enjoying my wife, the fire, the dogs, and not getting up at midnight to fly 92 hours a month.

[TypeIV]

captFRIZZ, what are you basing your bashing on?
What were the hour requirements when you applied?

To answer your question:

Much, much better roster. More time off, more flexible roster and much less flying. More rest on layovers.
Much cheaper to live in Istanbul as long as you don't own a luxurious car.
Much closer to Europe.

The 777-gig and the 737-gig cannot be compared. The 777 is still a great gig for alot of people.

[latetonite]

To CaptFRIZZ: How can you call yourself CAPTAIN with 275 hrs TT? And what does GOD have to do with all this?
No wonder they do not accept you.

[twentyyearstoolate]

I disagree Bob777

96 hours on the 777?? Well, I've never done that many hours here. For the last 6 months my max has been around 75 - 80 hours. Plus, you need to compare apples with apples. Most of our flying is over 10 hour sectors, and 3 hours of that is in the bunk resting with full credited hours. I wouldn't want to insult the gentlemen at EK who are doing more hours than us in a far less efficient environment. To compare the two is not a fair example IMO.

Layovers at 24 hours is correct.

Salary is also correct, and that is IMO THE main issue and does need to be addressed rather soon!.

Having said that, the 10 days off straight I get at home in a row is something I'm sure an EK guy would salivate over.

Horses for courses, but I know a few ex EK guys and none of them have a remote desire to go back. Obviously you know of others!?

[Kirks gusset]

Frizz, we require English level 4 or greater not text speak level 1, forgetting that small issue, if you apply as "type rated FO" you need 1500 hrs on aircraft over 27T and 1000 hrs on the type you apply for. Turkish Airlines - Job Opportunities - turkishairlines.com (http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-int/career/job-opportunities/1)
When you open the link it clearly states " in order for your application to be considered you must meet the minimum requirements"
We are aware that some " agencies" were gathering cannon fodder to swell their databases and perhaps giving false hope to applicants

[Wh1sper]

I know eight ex EK guys currently at Turkish. Not a single one of them would go back.
More guys joining shortly from EK. Let's all hope they do something about the salary.

[Kapitanleutnant]

I've seen a roster for a 777 Capt and it was about 72 hours and I've been told the layovers (at least the North American ones) are 48 hours.

I think you would have to experience what's going on at EK these days to really get a grasp of how bad it is… and why most of us want to leave… even for less money! I can tell you many many of our guys at EK are either interviewing or have resignation dates. There MUST be a reason…. Ya, it's that bad there. There IS a reason we're all leaving…..

There are some other things that are "intangible" to making a move from EK to TK. Things like being respected (even a little bit more than at EK), things like not being lied to about getting 42 days vacation each year but only getting 30. Why… manning issues? Well, that's not our fault… we don't man the airline… Management does!

I have no illusions whatsoever that things at TK will be nirvana, but they absolutely, positively are a step up from the treatment, the simple lack of respect, the unsustainable rosters, the vacations that sometimes end up in groups of 5 days… yes a VACATION of only 5 days awarded to us.

A TK roster is so far superior to anything at EK… in this small way: A TK pilot on the 777 gets 9 and sometimes even 10 days off in row. At Ek, we can only ever get 5…. and that's very hard to get. And after flying months and months of 92 plus hours per month with crazy time zones PLUS crazy hours of night time/daytime combinations leading to no let up until you have your vacation, it really starts taking it's toll on your health!

So, when I see an actual roster of a TK pilot (B777 CA) with 71 hours and 10 days off in row…. SIGN ME UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That alone is worth it's weight in gold to any EK 777 Captain!

Kap

[FoxForce44]

For F/O, are the conditions good?

[Stone_cold]

While I would question Frizz's use of text , there are too many English language guru's here who equate ELP level with the ability to converse fluently in English , partly because they , myself included, are handicapped with the burden of only being able to communicate in English .

The ELP is an assessment of a level of Aviation English proficiency , not a freaking university level course ! Additionally , in most jurisdictions it is administered by the locals who are not English speakers themselves , but that is a separate issue .

[Kirks gusset]

Gentlemen, Ladies, handbags down! part of the THY assessment process is an English test, there is a fairly consistent failure rate with this. I too find this rather strange given some of the existing crew have lower than "standard" as observed in the sim and line training, on the other hand, we must consider the recruitment " team" seem to have taken this area as a go/no go item, just a word to the wise...We are aware of " dodgy' ELP certificates etc, which is one reason this area is double checked, along with the " high school diploma/ degree" status..too many " on-line" universities , thinking of which, i could be a Doctor, Dentist, Eye Surgeon and the whole course is just $100!

[Kapitanleutnant]

When I went to assessment recently, the english test was the very first thing our group did.

You sit at a computer wearing a headset with a mic about 2 or 3 cubicles from anyone else so that you won't be disturbed from others.

You have to answer questions into the mic from a recording and have a time limit which is plenty enough.

Second part of it is to describe in your own words a picture they put up on the screen again with a time limit. It's more than ample time to do it.

Lastly is an aviation english part where they show either alphanumeric characters which you have to read aloud into the mic (as above) and also some things like altimeter settings to read back that you see on the screen.

I don't mind telling this because it's something that you can either do… or not do. Nothing really to practice on (except your english skills). Our group all made it thru this part.

It's funny as I almost thought I wasn't going to make it because they showed this for me to read back: Frequency 129.35. I got a bit lazy and said "one-twenty-nine point thirty-five. I think the actual proper response should have been, "one-two-niner point three-five as a verbal response. Lol… was a bit worried!! :eek:

K

PS…. Kirks, you have an email for that $100 PhD Degree thingy? :-)

[Climb360]

Try "one-two-niner decimal three-five" :ok:

[Juan Heych]

Try "one two niner day smell tree fife."

[Rikki]

Hi guys. Would appreciate a PM if possible with regards to a FO 777 position with TK. Im 777 rated with 5500TT and the majority on jets. Can someone let me know how the rosters for a B777 FO (example of trips or time away from base etc) and also there is mention of a training bond payable if you leave before 2 years, any idea how much this is? I know a lot of guys are asking the same stuff but I would appreciate anyone thats there that can give me a brief rundown or answer these 1 or 2 questions. Thank you in advance.

[bob777]

You are aware of dodgy ELP certificates. I trust you are since so many locals have a 6 on license but would not be able to read this post. Just wonder if anyone in HR as a sense of the reality around them.... :)

[fireball_23]

Hey !

Did you get any troubles regarding the application form ? It seems impossible to upload the documents. Any infos ?

[Kapitanleutnant]

All mine uploaded using Safari… no problems at all.

Kap

[fireball_23]

I'm using safari as well. I'll give it a try again today. Thanks for the reply anyway !:ok:

[Kapitanleutnant]

Can anyone advise what the Loss of License/Medical insurance is at TK?

Thanks

Kap

[porkflyer]

None....nada.

[Kapitanleutnant]

I actually found it in my paperwork. So they do have one. Looks like its about 1 year salary equivalent.

I missed it the first run thru the papers…

K

[porkflyer]

As said ...none. Medical insurance is more that they make sure you will not report sick by having implemented one of the most absurd " procedures" ( that anyway you will not be able to understand since its written in a new language, Engturk unknown to the most) ever seen on earth requiring you to see a doctor also if unable move or breath. Than they will cut anyway by 70% and if your sickness persist you might get a termination letter for insufficient performance.The LOL is 100.000 USD...again equivalent to none.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Pork…

Umm… but they DO have it. At least in my documents I have.

100,000 dollars is nothing to you? Well, if heaven forbid, you ever lose your license due to medical, I'm more than happy to take your $100,000 that you seem to think is nothing? :-)

Kap

[twentyyearstoolate]

Kap: Yes, they do indeed have $100kUS for LOL.

An expat colleague recently lost his medical, and I heard he got his money with relative ease. I say relative, because any bureaucratic procedure here is painful, but the main thing is the money was there :)

Pork does have a point regarding sick leave. The system here is nothing less than disgraceful!

[porkflyer]

Good luck on living on 100k..or starting a business. A reasonable amount would be 3 times that. Twenty you are so right.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Pork

I think the purpose of that payout is more to hold you over for a time as you regroup and seek perhaps another position other than flying or some such since you'll no longer be able to fly

K

[Inning1]

Hi to everyone! Guys,could you tell me please,what does the pilot roadshow look like? Turkish airlines come with pilot recruitment roadshow to Moscow and it would be very helpful to know what to wait from this event? Is it like an interview?

[warhammer]

THY's English on documents are very clearly written and understandable very easily. Judge your own poor Eng before judging an international company's one.

[Aviaservice]

Inning
Let's check it! I'm gonna be here on 27th, before I'll visit Chinese roadshow.

[onehotflyer]

As a FO don't waste your time with THY.

[chrislikesblue]

Onehotflyer,
Thanks for the input but this comment is very general. Could you please explain in more details what makes you come to this conclusion? What would be the main negative points in this company? (perhaps the salary, upgrade opportunity , roster ... ?? ). Im sure your explanations would help some people who are probably thinking of joining THY but have not made up their mind.

[foswillruletheworld]

chrislikesblue i think i know what our fellow friends is talking about.
What onehotflyer means is that there is no problem with the rosters.
However upgrading time and seniority list following is slightly different. You may never become a captain unless THY needs captains so badly.
The general treating first officers is like crap, even the turkish citizens. You are just a number as some other carriers in the ME. However things change when you become a captain.
The salary is a relative thing so i am avoiding to comment on that, however currency of turkish liras is fluctuating like crazy lately(TL has lost about %30 in the last 6 months against USD).
So there has been a migration from THY to ME majors.
As far as i know 150 first officers(all foreign) and 60 captains(also all foreign) resigned from THY, but it might not be all about the salary...

[Wh1sper]

Apparently ex EK guys at Turkish are asking EK if they can come back. The situation at Turkish and in Turkey is not good. Turkish refuse to pay in Euro or USD.
Lot's of home standby and airport standby in Istanbul. Rosters getting worse on the 777. My source is an ex EK pilot.

[chrislikesblue]

EK pilots joined THY ?
I do not know what THY pays but I find it strange that people would leave a company with one of best salaries and benefits in the industry to join THY. Could someone give me an idea of their package?

[twentyyearstoolate]

It would be for lifestyle/commuting (Wide body).

Certainly not for money, the money is CRAP in THY and getting worse!

[chrislikesblue]

Lifestyle? Is this a joke? You can compare lifestyle of Dubai with lifestyle in Istanbul?

[Payscale]

Yes you can....you can compare anything you like. ;)

[onehotflyer]

foswillruletheworld pretty much covered it. Salary going down each month, FO is just a Captains slave, so many stupid military attitudes, captains that think they are Gods gift to aviation but in reality are rather crap and need to be watched like a hawk, back stabbing, probably no chance of an upgrade as you will always be second after a local, not the best as a commuter, lack of or no communication from the office and management, arriving for a flight only to find your schedule has been changed and no one tells you. And the list goes on and on. I imagine its what aviation was like 60 years ago.
Definitely not what it says on the tin.