Emirates Flight hits heavy turbulence over Goa

[jpsingh]

Emirates Flt from DXB to COK in India cruising at FL350 hit severe turbulence over Goa and reportedly lost 200 ft. Indian news channles are giving vague reports about 18000 ft loss of altitude.Some passengers have sustained injuries and the video has shown fairly chaotic interiors.:

[Pilot Positive]

ITCZ moves up around this area during April/May...not very pleasant.

Is it known what action the crew took?

[Lee]

Emirates plane drops 15,000 feet over India, 17 hurt
Sun, Apr 25 2010

Passengers suffered bruises and other minor wounds.

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM, India - A passenger plane flying from Dubai to India plunged 15,000 feet (4,600 metres) after hitting air turbulence Sunday, injuring 17 people, aviation officials said.

The Emirates Boeing 777 jet with 361 passengers and 14 crew on board landed safely at its destination of Kochi in south India shortly after the incident, which occurred off the coastal state of Goa.


"In a short period of bad turbulence, some passengers suffered bruises and other minor wounds. They were given medical care at the airport on their arrival," an airline official in Kochi, who declined to be named, told AFP.

"Some passengers who were not wearing seat belts were thrown out of their seats, but the pilot regained control," he said.

Reports said the plane suffered some damage after dropping from 20,000 to just 5,000 feet in a few minutes.

[Airbubba]

Two more accounts from the local media:

An Emirates flight flying over Goa averted tragedy on Sunday, and landed safely in Kochi.

The Boeing 777 - flying from Dubai to Kochi with 350 passengers on board - dropped from a height of 20,000 to 1,500 feet, possibly due to turbulence caused by rains in the Goa-Kerala region.

Miraculously, the pilot was able to regain control before impact - after dropping 18,500 feet.

Plane drops 18,500 ft over Goa, but lands safely (http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/plane-drops-18500-ft-over-goa-but-lands-safely-20890.php)

The airline claims the drop in height was only about 200 feet; but TIMES NOW's DGCA sources say the free fall was much greater, around 18,000 feet.

According to sources, the pilot has said the plane on its way from Dubai to Kochi hit the towering cumulo nimbus cloud leading to the free fall from 20,000 ft to just 2,000 ft, (somewhere between Goa and Kochi) before recovering and regaining height. South west monsoons are scheduled to hit the Kerala coast in next 15 days, so this explanation is at least plausible.

Flight passengers whom TIMES NOW spoke to at Kochi said those who were not belted into their seats were thrown upwards, overhead hatches opened up and baggage tumbled out, compounding the dangerous situation. "We were sure this was the end, that all of us would die," said one harried passenger.

'Emirates pilot couldn't avoid Cumulonimbus cloud'- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos (http://www.timesnow.tv/Emirates-pilot-couldnt-avoid-Cumulonimbus-cloud/articleshow/4343790.cms)

[413X3]

How long before we are told thankfully it was a Boeing which allowed the pilots to recover

[Pugilistic Animus]

the T-7 is a tough bird though! that's a full on DP's finest HTBJ Upset they've described:sad:

just as an aside in Extreme turbulence your Vtp/Mtp may be too high and you have to be close to Va to survive this requires knowledge stall recovery because you have to slow way way down and possible risk a stall

Good Work to the flight Crew:D:ok::D

[Basil]

Well, PA you've certainly got me there!

Vtp/Mtp ??
DP's finest HTBJ Upset ??


and 'Extreme turbulence' - in forty something years I never even made 'severe'. :ok:

[White Knight]

PA - what are you prattling on about:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pilot Positive - too early for the monsoon and ITCZ. When I passed over Goa in the evening India time today - or yesterday now - there were 2 small isolated cells and the rest of the sky was clear as a bell. I imagine that earlier in the day were CBs from the intense premonsoon heat causing instability - isolated, few or scattered I don't know!!! When the monsoon arrives it's generally 9/10ths cloud and multiple red bits on the radar - but that's end of May to early June in that area...

[vapilot2004]

Shot in the dark: V = velocity and M= mass. Now, tp? Sorry, can't help with that and am reluctant to guess for obvious reasons. :}

We need a psychic to divine the physics while we wait for Mr. PA's return.

[iceman50]

My guess would be

V(IAS) turbulence penetration
Mach turbulence penetration

DP = D.P. Davis
HTBJ = handling the big jets

Va = design manoeuvering speed

Haven't got a clue what he is really trying to say.

[screwballburling]

I was over India less than two weeks ago and there were some nasty cells up 100 nm south of Mumbai. So they are around.

"If it ain't Boeing I'm not going".

[White Knight]

Except it was a Boeing:hmm:

[Hotel Charlie]

Except it was a Boeing

I think that was the point.... it's still flying :ok:

[White Knight]

Yeah - still flying through it in the lower 300s when the 'Bus soars over the top:D:D

[Basil]

Aahh, right!
iceman50 gets the prize :ok:

No excuses - should have seen that - vodka martini + red wine does not aid logic :O

[puff m'call]

Drama drama drama, it stayed at FL350 after heavy turb encounter, yes a few people were hurt but A/C released after check and flew home.

[Mr Good Cat]

the T-7 is a tough bird though! that's a full on DP's finest HTBJ Upset they've described

I can't confess to being a porn connoisseur, honest, but a 'full-on DP' and 'finest BJ' does remind me of some lonely nights downroute with only the Adult TV channels for company...
:E

Urban Dictionary: dp (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dp)

Urban Dictionary: bj (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bj)


In other news, on further investigation local press uncovers several recent incidents involving Emirates flights falling from 35,000 feet all the way to the ground, usually at the latter end of the journey.

[Pugilistic Animus]

meaning that that maximum weight to be carried by the wing[mainly] is the weight that the wing carries at the stall i.e the ratio of W/S is increased to a maximum; this gives rise to the fact that a stall at 1Vs loads the wing with a maximum 1 'g' however at 2Vs an accelerated stall g of 4 g based on the relation ship Vsn = Vs[n [load factor]^1/2

Va is computed similarly except that n [any load factor] is replaced by the design limit load N therefore Va represents the speed that if a stall occurs the wing loading will not exceed design limit loads,...this is a mathematical certainty at odds a bit with the somewhat artificial/ statistical world of design standards [as JT always says 'a line in the sand'] in both cases the Change in Load factor DeltaN i= q*delta AoA but....

in FAR 25. [340???] the worst gust assumed [Uref] to impact the airframe are alleviated i.e statistically assumed to build up gradually reach maximal intensity then decay gradually but in reality in extreme turbulence the gust may be sharpedged and result in an[I] instantaneous increases in AOA this will result in higher than assumed load factors ---hence Vra/Tp becomes very very artificial and only speeds near Va can protect you,...in reality for Extreme turbulence it may just be better to stall
the British suck at horse hooey:p

[Chronus]

Prey do tell us what may horse hooey be, is it another thing to masticate on, like a hershey bar, as large havanas are now banned, whilst riding airplanes in EXTREME TURBULENCE.
All that we have over this side of the pond for mere mortals is moderate and severe turbulence. Those who get into the severe kind do not normally come out the other side in the same state that they were before the encounter. The emasculation is normally noticed by the change of the voice on the R/T.

[vapilot2004]

No excuses - should have seen that - vodka martini + red wine does not aid logic

Rum and pineapple juice here. :O

[alienpilot]

Does anyone have authentic information on what happened? Was the turbulence while passing through a Cell or was it CAT? So many people shoot here left right and centre! Looking for experienced airline pilots sharing any severe turbulence encounters for benefit of others.....

[vapilot2004]

If they were passing through a cell, there would have been a prior PA and somebody would have pressed the FSB button. Judging by reported injuries, it appears this was not the case.

[MosEisley]

Just for informational purposes...

aircraft turbulence—Irregular motion of an aircraft in flight, especially when characterized by rapid up-and-down motion, caused by a rapid variation of atmospheric wind velocities.

This can occur in cloudy areas (particularly towering cumulus and lenticular clouds) and in clear air. Turbulence is the leading cause of nonfatal passenger and flight attendant injuries. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) classifies aircraft turbulence as follows:

Light: Causes slight, erratic changes in altitude and/or attitude, and rhythmic bumpiness as occupants feel a slight strain against seat belts.

Moderate: Similar to light, but of greater intensity, with rapid bumps or jolts, and occupants feel a slight strain against seat belts.

Severe: Turbulence that causes large, abrupt changes in altitude and attitude, and large variations in airspeed, with the aircraft temporarily out of control. Occupants are forced violently against their seat belts and objects are tossed about, with food service and walking impossible.

Extreme: The aircraft is tossed about so violently that it is practically impossible to control, and structural damage may occur.

I wasn't there and I don't believe anything the Indian papers or any media say about aircraft incidents, so I can't speak to what happened. I just wanted to post the accepted definitions of turbulence severity for the purposes of this discussion.

[HAWK21M]

Wasn't there a report on Structural damage someplace.

[SLF3b]

Many years ago my sister (age about seven) came home off a flight and told big brother it had been 'very bumpy'. Big brother poo-pooed her story but finally asked how bad it had been. 'Well, when it started I was sitting on the toilet and it threw me off and I hit my head on the door'. I guess that would be 'severe', then.

[Pugilistic Animus]

PA - what are you prattling on about:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The hidden loophole in this :8

§ 25.341 Gust and turbulence loads.

(a) Discrete Gust Design Criteria. The airplane is assumed to be subjected to symmetrical vertical and lateral gusts in level flight. Limit gust loads must be determined in accordance with the provisions:
(1) Loads on each part of the structure must be determined by dynamic analysis. The analysis must take into account unsteady aerodynamic characteristics and all significant structural degrees of freedom including rigid body motions.
(2) The shape of the gust must be:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/ecfr/graphics/er09fe96.018.gif

for 0 ≤ s ≤ 2H
where—
s=distance penetrated into the gust (feet);
Uds=the design gust velocity in equivalent airspeed specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section; and
H=the gust gradient which is the distance (feet) parallel to the airplane's flight path for the gust to reach its peak velocity.

(3) A sufficient number of gust gradient distances in the range 30 feet to 350 feet must be investigated to find the critical response for each load quantity.
(4) The design gust velocity must be:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/ecfr/graphics/er09fe96.019.gif

where—
Uref=the reference gust velocity in equivalent airspeed defined in paragraph (a)(5) of this section.
Fg=the flight profile alleviation factor defined in paragraph (a)(6) of this section.

(5) The following reference gust velocities apply:
(i) At the airplane design speed VC: Positive and negative gusts with reference gust velocities of 56.0 ft/sec EAS must be considered at sea level. The reference gust velocity may be reduced linearly from 56.0 ft/sec EAS at sea level to 44.0 ft/sec EAS at 15000 feet. The reference gust velocity may be further reduced linearly from 44.0 ft/sec EAS at 15000 feet to 26.0 ft/sec EAS at 50000 feet.
(ii) At the airplane design speed VD: The reference gust velocity must be 0.5 times the value obtained under §25.341(a)(5)(i).
(6) The flight profile alleviation factor, Fg, must be increased linearly from the sea level value to a value of 1.0 at the maximum operating altitude defined in §25.1527. At sea level, the flight profile alleviation factor is determined by the following equation:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/ecfr/graphics/en08mr96.004.gif

Zmo=Maximum operating altitude defined in §25.1527.

(7) When a stability augmentation system is included in the analysis, the effect of any significant system nonlinearities should be accounted for when deriving limit loads from limit gust conditions.
(b) Continuous Gust Design Criteria. The dynamic response of the airplane to vertical and lateral continuous turbulence must be taken into account. The continuous gust design criteria of appendix G of this part must be used to establish the dynamic response unless more rational criteria are shown.
[Doc. No. 27902, 61 FR 5221, Feb. 9, 1996; 61 FR 9533, Mar. 8, 1996]

[Pugilistic Animus]

So any updates on the incident?:)

[andrewmcharlton]

Big brother poo-pooed her story but finally asked how bad it had been


"You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh" General Sir Cecil Hogmanay Melchett

[Pugilistic Animus]

So a plane falls [reportedly] 15000' and no one knows anything?

did it happen?
:confused::confused::confused:
maybe we can get a better talk going in Tech Log :8

[Wizofoz]

PA,

Non-event.

Hit a bump.

No altitude deviation

Minor abrasions to people who should have had their seat-belt on and didn't.

Indian Press reporting at about its usual (non) standard.

What else would you like to know?

[Lou Scannon]

Pugilistic Animus grasp of aerodynamics puts me in mind of what a certain aircraft designer once said:

"If someone can't explain the design of an aircraft in simple terms...then they are usually talking balls!" R.J.Mitchell

or should it be RJM?

[ironbutt57]

If you cant dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bull****...mm think we just experienced this..

[Pugilistic Animus]

Thanks guys


I had to give up quite a few dates for that:uhoh:



:)

[corsjet]

I was fying the same day arriving after Emirates ,Turbulence was there
but more it it the fast difference of ISA in this part of the area from +10 to ISA+20 wich can be a serious problem associated with turbulence
Margin decrease . We cannot say the monsoon start really in the south of India it is pre monsoon ,it comes after mid june ,the north of India is more concern.
Good job Emirates!:ok: