PDA

View Full Version : Airfields NOT require PPR by phone


englishal
5th Apr 2010, 11:59
Just to add to the other "airfield" posts on here, it is nice to have a list of airfields where you can just "pop into" if you you are out flying an want to stop for a cuppa. So what about a list of airfields who don't require "PPR by phone", so if you're just flying around the area and decide to stop, you can do so without paying through the nose....Here are a few to get started (all in the south ;) )....

Dunkerswell
Henstridge
Compton Abbas
Bembridge
Shoreham
Old Sarum
.....

chevvron
5th Apr 2010, 12:17
All depends on what type of lience the airfield has(if it has one)
PPR is mandatory when unlicenced or 'ordinary', but many airfields will grant PPR on RTF. If you're non radio of course..................

Genghis the Engineer
5th Apr 2010, 12:22
I have that list already - it's all the airfields in my Pooleys which don't say "PPR" on the page.

Although, being a sensible aviator, I mostly give any airfield I don't know well a call anyway. Just like PPR-required airfields, that gives me a chance to find out if there are any local problems I should know about. On at-least one occasion that has avoided me ending up substantially in the mire.

G

Mike Cross
5th Apr 2010, 12:32
"Compton Abbas"

Good job I phoned. Closed yesterday due to wind and general moistness. Went to Old Sarum instead and got a free landing (something to do with it being the first Sunday of the month and me being "vintage").

172driver
5th Apr 2010, 13:06
Almost all airfields outside the UK.....

Captain Smithy
5th Apr 2010, 13:10
PPR is quite a helpful thing, many regard it as a nuisance but I don't mind. It lets them know you are coming, also you can find out Wx, any unique local procedures, things to watch out for e.g. NOTAMs/funny business (which you should be checking anyway :uhoh:) or any other pertinent details.

Not sure why so many have a bee in their bonnet about it? Doesn't do much harm.

Smithy

englishal
5th Apr 2010, 15:09
Well no, it doesn't do any harm, but have you never been "just flying" with no plan in mind and decided that you might as well just pop in somewhere for a cuppa, a sarnie or pee? It is a very liberating feeling.

I guess it is because I do a lot of flying in the USA where you can land anywhere. If you phoned for PPR in the USA the guy would probably say "are you stupid or something, of course you can land here, it is an airport"....;)

XXPLOD
5th Apr 2010, 16:21
Thruxton. Just give them a call north of Andover.

Rod1
5th Apr 2010, 17:21
“me being "vintage"”

I did not know you were that old Mike!:E

Rod1

IO540
5th Apr 2010, 18:20
Those who "go places" will have a different take on this question...

Flying out of the UK, one must fly to an international airport i.e. one with Customs.

Many Customs airports are "Customs PPR" or "Customs PNR". In practice these two are the same thing because you need to check they received the notice of the flight.

Otherwise, you can be refused a landing clearance. I have been refused (while on the final approach) by Padova, Italy, despite having sent them several faxes the previous day, and Zaragoza, Spain, deleted my flight plan despite the departure ARO (Granada) having telephoned them right in front of me. Kerkira (Corfu), Greece, has also on occassions banned incoming flights; not always notamed, either.

Many many "international" airports are also simply totally PPR. You cannot fly there without permission. The list is too long. You can start with Gatwick, which is fully open to GA, which I am damn sure will tell you to sod off if you just turn up (with £500 in your pocket, for Harrods Handling). Bournemouth will ask for the PPR number but you can bluff your way in. Hania, Crete, 5 days PPR for arrival and 5 days PPR for departure (I've been there). Tirana, Albania, 14 days PPR when I went there; since improved somewhat I am told.

Duxford used to be well known for telling people to sod off (actually they told you to land and make a phone call; I have seen this myself) but I am reliably advised they had to revise that policy as a result of loss of traffic. However, a private strip is legally entitled to demand the wearing of pink underpants...

Many airports cannot be flown to at all if one's plane is non-EU registered. I've had to get a special code (for an N-reg plane) for Cannakale, Turkey.

Consequently I would not dream of flying to any place in "southern" Europe without making contact first.

Of the nice countries to stay in in the south of Europe, notable exceptions are Croatia and Slovenia.

If course, this can all be sorted with a phone call, if you speak a few languages (http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/european_languages.htm) like Captain Smithy evidently does ;)

For the rest, faxing well ahead of time is a good start. The AFPEx tool's free format text message is also always worth doing (always include a fax # in the message).

Standby Scum
5th Apr 2010, 18:31
Compton Abbas
Bembridge
Shoreham

...were non PPR in 1968 too. (◔◡◔)

englishal
6th Apr 2010, 09:52
For the rest, faxing well ahead of time is a good start. The AFPEx tool's free format text message is also always worth doing (always include a fax # in the message).
Do you ever get a reply by AFPEx? And what do you say in your message? How can you find their address, is it always <ICAOID>ZTZX ?

Cheers
EGHSZXA*

xrayalpha
6th Apr 2010, 10:05
Chevron wote:

PPR is mandatory when unlicenced

No it is not: at Strathaven and Bute in Scotland, to name a couple.

Halfbaked_Boy
6th Apr 2010, 11:16
When on the ground, I treat all airfields as PPR.

When airborne, I treat no airfields as PPR.

Most places, even if stipulating that they are PPR, are generally happy to accept you if you let them know what the circumstances are and they're not too busy.

Always have a plan B though, of course! :)

172driver
6th Apr 2010, 11:32
I guess it is because I do a lot of flying in the USA where you can land anywhere. If you phoned for PPR in the USA the guy would probably say "are you stupid or something, of course you can land here, it is an airport"....

Amen to that :D:D

IO540
We'll probably disagree over that until we both have lost our medicals ;) It is, in my experience, just hardly ever the case. Especially with big customs airports. What IS the case (occasionally) is that there is some NOTAM'd 'slot requirement'. Have to admit, that has caught me out once in Valencia some years ago.

IO540
6th Apr 2010, 13:59
Do you ever get a reply by AFPEx? And what do you say in your message? How can you find their address, is it always <ICAOID>ZTZX ?Yes, xxxxZTZX and xxxxZPZX (always sent to both even though often it's the same terminal).

I get a reply about 30% of the time. About the same or slightly worse than faxing, but the two methods are complementary to some degree (i.e. if the ignorant t*****r doesn't reply to faxes, some less ignorant t******r might reply to the AFTN message). However, I get the feeling that most recipients simply cannot believe they can reply to the AFTN address, and one can see why: AFPEx is way too innovative for the mostly sub-optimally managed world of airports :) The replies I do get are mostly sent to the fax # I provide in the message.

I also get the feeling, from following some stuff up, that at many airports the union / job demarcation is tight and the person getting the AFTN message will deliberately not pass it to the person dealing with PPR. Many airports are run as per British Leyland...

As to content, it is something like:

PPR REQUEST
AIRCRAFT: NXXXXX
DATE: XXXXX
DEPARTING FROM: EGXX
FLYING TO: XXXX
1 PILOT 1 PASSENGER (BOTH EU CITIZENS)
WILL REQUIRE: AVGAS 100LL AND PARKING FOR 3 NIGHTS

PLEASE CONFIRM ABOVE IS OK.
PLEASE REPLY BY AFTN OR FAX XXXXXXX OR EMAIL XXXX (AT) YYYYYY

etc etc.

We'll probably disagree over that until we both have lost our medicals http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif Indeed :)

However, you speak fluent Spanish. Spain, along with most 3rd world countries, runs on lack of transparency and the "personal touch" is very important. Also your plane was ES- whereas mine is N- and all I need is some d*ck who doesn't approve of American foreign policy...

Especially with big customs airports. That should be the best safeguard from PPR. And I would agree for the really big ones. One can turn up in say Prague anytime, H24.

What IS the case (occasionally) is that there is some NOTAM'd 'slot requirement'. Have to admit, that has caught me out once in Valencia some years ago. I have never seen a slot requirement (except at Friefrichshafen this weekend but that is understandable; one has to book the slots on their website) but have seen plenty of PPR stuff in notams, which is not too bad.

englishal
6th Apr 2010, 16:02
Thanks IO, I'll try it sometime... :)

IO540
6th Apr 2010, 19:06
and why not?

I have never seen an airport which actually needed to do PPR.

It's a pure job creation/protection scheme - most airports are heavily into that kind of thing. The rest of the country may have modernised but airports are still pockets of stupid paper-pushing, restrictive practices, unions, you name it.

No doubt the airport manager sells this bull to his local government, in the name of "CAA regulations", "safety", etc.

Last year, I was going to fly to a well known south European airport so I contacted them. NO WAY was the reply. A few days later they even notamed it. Airport closed to all non-airline traffic. Some big knobs, including H. Clinton, were arriving for a conference. The man told me it would be 30 jets; about 30 secs later he said 60. My girlfriend flew in on an airline and reported about 5 planes sitting there; that is about 5% of their GA apron capacity. On an earlier occassion, the man in the office told me, with a completely straight face, that they need to do 5 day PPR to regulate apron capacity. His own CAA's notam says 24hr PPR. Out of the window behind him you could see this vast apron, big enough to park his country's entire air force, with one old C172 with flat tyres rotting in the far corner...

172driver
6th Apr 2010, 19:11
you know, IO540, I sometimes wonder if with all the faxing, calling, emailing and AFTNing you are not just waking sleeping dogs. Especially south of the border.....:E

Mickey Kaye
6th Apr 2010, 20:54
I'm with IO540 PPR is an utter pain in the arse. Far enough when I call up a place on the radio only to be told its closed to visiting aircraft due waterlogged runway then fair enough perhaps I should have rang ahead. But some places are utter loons they have parking for twenty 737s yet they only have 12 movements a day but when you call them up they can't fit you in - its a joke.

If it so simple in the USA why can't it be in the EU?

twelveoclockhigh
6th Apr 2010, 22:03
Some smaller airfields may have PPR by telephone because of movement limits.

IO540
6th Apr 2010, 23:17
I don't think many people have an issue with a private airfield requiring a phone call. After all, it is private. Most of them are on the 28 day rule so they are going to be ultra sensitive.

However, if an airfield is a public one then there is a conflict between it requiring PPR, and being public. A puclic airport must accept traffic unless obviously not possible.

More or less every airfield has movement limits but they don't use PPR to work within these i.e. there isn't some bloke in some office looking at their traffic projection for the year, and allowing people to come or not. So, why bother doing it? Probably 99% of "PPR" airports do it for a laugh and nothing else.

I sometimes wonder if with all the faxing, calling, emailing and AFTNing you are not just waking sleeping dogs

I suppose one could come off the enroute controller, call up Approach, and if refused, set 7600, make some blind calls, and land as per the filed flight plan ;) I'll try that next time.... south of the "border" :)

Mike Cross
7th Apr 2010, 00:13
“me being "vintage"”

I did not know you were that old Mike!

Rod1

Unlike you I'm nearly as old as my aeroplane.;)

AdamFrisch
7th Apr 2010, 01:07
My experience with PPR's is that no one answers on any published number, or replies to any email. And if you by a great fluke should happen to get someone on the blower, they always say "ahh, we don't bother with that here - just fly in". So the published PPR req seems mostly like window dressing.

Granted, this is mainly on the smaller fields.

mad_jock
7th Apr 2010, 07:28
Half the time as far as I can tell from ATC mates the only reason why they want PPR is so thay can have a strip prepared for the controller.

O and Dundee accepts no PPR as long as you have a radio.

172driver
7th Apr 2010, 08:26
I suppose one could come off the enroute controller, call up Approach, and if refused, set 7600, make some blind calls, and land as per the filed flight plan I'll try that next time.... south of the "border"

That's the way :ok:

Just one more thing: make sure you land between 1400 and 1700 local. Nobody will be there. Park you a/c, walk to staff canteen and join everyone for lunch. Make new friends. Just don't try to uplift fuel :E

IO540
7th Apr 2010, 08:29
No, that would be breaking another aviation tradition: always get refuelled immediately after landing. Even the most primitive airport tries to get you off airside fast, and if you don't budge until you have fuel, fuel turns up very fast.

If you choose to refuel before departure, the fuel man has no incentive to turn up - they couldn't care less.

Slopey
7th Apr 2010, 10:13
Both myself and others in our 172 group had have a roasting from ATC at both Aberdeen and Inverness for no PPR. Aberdeen are getting increasingly shirty about it (even though the aircraft is based there and was just away for an hour or two down to Dundee and back), but I wonder if that just depends who you get (and to be fair to them, it can be helluva busy with the whirly mob and commercial stuff). (they're getting a bit odd in general - i.e. doing away with booking out via the phone - it'll need to be done by the stupid AFPEx non-website in the future they tell us :suspect:)

One of our group was out on a bimble out of Aberdeen, headed up to Inverness and thought he'd pop in for a coffee/have a chat about training - all quiet, nothing in-bound/outbound - called up to ask and was told "no PPR, no landing" in no uncertain terms.

So he routes overhead to bimble onto the North, and suddenly they're back on the horn asking him if he'd like to land and it's all fine really. He declined based on their previous attitude and headed home.