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Airfields NOT require PPR by phone

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Airfields NOT require PPR by phone

Old 5th Apr 2010, 10:59
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Airfields NOT require PPR by phone

Just to add to the other "airfield" posts on here, it is nice to have a list of airfields where you can just "pop into" if you you are out flying an want to stop for a cuppa. So what about a list of airfields who don't require "PPR by phone", so if you're just flying around the area and decide to stop, you can do so without paying through the nose....Here are a few to get started (all in the south )....

Dunkerswell
Henstridge
Compton Abbas
Bembridge
Shoreham
Old Sarum
.....
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 11:17
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All depends on what type of lience the airfield has(if it has one)
PPR is mandatory when unlicenced or 'ordinary', but many airfields will grant PPR on RTF. If you're non radio of course..................
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 11:22
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I have that list already - it's all the airfields in my Pooleys which don't say "PPR" on the page.

Although, being a sensible aviator, I mostly give any airfield I don't know well a call anyway. Just like PPR-required airfields, that gives me a chance to find out if there are any local problems I should know about. On at-least one occasion that has avoided me ending up substantially in the mire.

G
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 11:32
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"Compton Abbas"

Good job I phoned. Closed yesterday due to wind and general moistness. Went to Old Sarum instead and got a free landing (something to do with it being the first Sunday of the month and me being "vintage").
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 12:06
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Almost all airfields outside the UK.....
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 12:10
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PPR is quite a helpful thing, many regard it as a nuisance but I don't mind. It lets them know you are coming, also you can find out Wx, any unique local procedures, things to watch out for e.g. NOTAMs/funny business (which you should be checking anyway ) or any other pertinent details.

Not sure why so many have a bee in their bonnet about it? Doesn't do much harm.

Smithy
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 14:09
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Well no, it doesn't do any harm, but have you never been "just flying" with no plan in mind and decided that you might as well just pop in somewhere for a cuppa, a sarnie or pee? It is a very liberating feeling.

I guess it is because I do a lot of flying in the USA where you can land anywhere. If you phoned for PPR in the USA the guy would probably say "are you stupid or something, of course you can land here, it is an airport"....
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 15:21
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Thruxton. Just give them a call north of Andover.
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 16:21
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“me being "vintage"”

I did not know you were that old Mike!

Rod1
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 17:20
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Those who "go places" will have a different take on this question...

Flying out of the UK, one must fly to an international airport i.e. one with Customs.

Many Customs airports are "Customs PPR" or "Customs PNR". In practice these two are the same thing because you need to check they received the notice of the flight.

Otherwise, you can be refused a landing clearance. I have been refused (while on the final approach) by Padova, Italy, despite having sent them several faxes the previous day, and Zaragoza, Spain, deleted my flight plan despite the departure ARO (Granada) having telephoned them right in front of me. Kerkira (Corfu), Greece, has also on occassions banned incoming flights; not always notamed, either.

Many many "international" airports are also simply totally PPR. You cannot fly there without permission. The list is too long. You can start with Gatwick, which is fully open to GA, which I am damn sure will tell you to sod off if you just turn up (with £500 in your pocket, for Harrods Handling). Bournemouth will ask for the PPR number but you can bluff your way in. Hania, Crete, 5 days PPR for arrival and 5 days PPR for departure (I've been there). Tirana, Albania, 14 days PPR when I went there; since improved somewhat I am told.

Duxford used to be well known for telling people to sod off (actually they told you to land and make a phone call; I have seen this myself) but I am reliably advised they had to revise that policy as a result of loss of traffic. However, a private strip is legally entitled to demand the wearing of pink underpants...

Many airports cannot be flown to at all if one's plane is non-EU registered. I've had to get a special code (for an N-reg plane) for Cannakale, Turkey.

Consequently I would not dream of flying to any place in "southern" Europe without making contact first.

Of the nice countries to stay in in the south of Europe, notable exceptions are Croatia and Slovenia.

If course, this can all be sorted with a phone call, if you speak a few languages like Captain Smithy evidently does

For the rest, faxing well ahead of time is a good start. The AFPEx tool's free format text message is also always worth doing (always include a fax # in the message).
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 17:31
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Compton Abbas
Bembridge
Shoreham

...were non PPR in 1968 too. (◔◡◔)
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 08:52
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For the rest, faxing well ahead of time is a good start. The AFPEx tool's free format text message is also always worth doing (always include a fax # in the message).
Do you ever get a reply by AFPEx? And what do you say in your message? How can you find their address, is it always <ICAOID>ZTZX ?

Cheers
EGHSZXA*
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 09:05
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Chevron wote:

PPR is mandatory when unlicenced

No it is not: at Strathaven and Bute in Scotland, to name a couple.
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 10:16
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When on the ground, I treat all airfields as PPR.

When airborne, I treat no airfields as PPR.

Most places, even if stipulating that they are PPR, are generally happy to accept you if you let them know what the circumstances are and they're not too busy.

Always have a plan B though, of course!
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 10:32
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I guess it is because I do a lot of flying in the USA where you can land anywhere. If you phoned for PPR in the USA the guy would probably say "are you stupid or something, of course you can land here, it is an airport"....
Amen to that

IO540
We'll probably disagree over that until we both have lost our medicals It is, in my experience, just hardly ever the case. Especially with big customs airports. What IS the case (occasionally) is that there is some NOTAM'd 'slot requirement'. Have to admit, that has caught me out once in Valencia some years ago.
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 12:59
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Do you ever get a reply by AFPEx? And what do you say in your message? How can you find their address, is it always <ICAOID>ZTZX ?
Yes, xxxxZTZX and xxxxZPZX (always sent to both even though often it's the same terminal).

I get a reply about 30% of the time. About the same or slightly worse than faxing, but the two methods are complementary to some degree (i.e. if the ignorant t*****r doesn't reply to faxes, some less ignorant t******r might reply to the AFTN message). However, I get the feeling that most recipients simply cannot believe they can reply to the AFTN address, and one can see why: AFPEx is way too innovative for the mostly sub-optimally managed world of airports The replies I do get are mostly sent to the fax # I provide in the message.

I also get the feeling, from following some stuff up, that at many airports the union / job demarcation is tight and the person getting the AFTN message will deliberately not pass it to the person dealing with PPR. Many airports are run as per British Leyland...

As to content, it is something like:

PPR REQUEST
AIRCRAFT: NXXXXX
DATE: XXXXX
DEPARTING FROM: EGXX
FLYING TO: XXXX
1 PILOT 1 PASSENGER (BOTH EU CITIZENS)
WILL REQUIRE: AVGAS 100LL AND PARKING FOR 3 NIGHTS

PLEASE CONFIRM ABOVE IS OK.
PLEASE REPLY BY AFTN OR FAX XXXXXXX OR EMAIL XXXX (AT) YYYYYY

etc etc.

We'll probably disagree over that until we both have lost our medicals
Indeed

However, you speak fluent Spanish. Spain, along with most 3rd world countries, runs on lack of transparency and the "personal touch" is very important. Also your plane was ES- whereas mine is N- and all I need is some d*ck who doesn't approve of American foreign policy...

Especially with big customs airports.
That should be the best safeguard from PPR. And I would agree for the really big ones. One can turn up in say Prague anytime, H24.

What IS the case (occasionally) is that there is some NOTAM'd 'slot requirement'. Have to admit, that has caught me out once in Valencia some years ago.
I have never seen a slot requirement (except at Friefrichshafen this weekend but that is understandable; one has to book the slots on their website) but have seen plenty of PPR stuff in notams, which is not too bad.
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 15:02
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Thanks IO, I'll try it sometime...
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 18:06
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and why not?

I have never seen an airport which actually needed to do PPR.

It's a pure job creation/protection scheme - most airports are heavily into that kind of thing. The rest of the country may have modernised but airports are still pockets of stupid paper-pushing, restrictive practices, unions, you name it.

No doubt the airport manager sells this bull to his local government, in the name of "CAA regulations", "safety", etc.

Last year, I was going to fly to a well known south European airport so I contacted them. NO WAY was the reply. A few days later they even notamed it. Airport closed to all non-airline traffic. Some big knobs, including H. Clinton, were arriving for a conference. The man told me it would be 30 jets; about 30 secs later he said 60. My girlfriend flew in on an airline and reported about 5 planes sitting there; that is about 5% of their GA apron capacity. On an earlier occassion, the man in the office told me, with a completely straight face, that they need to do 5 day PPR to regulate apron capacity. His own CAA's notam says 24hr PPR. Out of the window behind him you could see this vast apron, big enough to park his country's entire air force, with one old C172 with flat tyres rotting in the far corner...
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 18:11
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you know, IO540, I sometimes wonder if with all the faxing, calling, emailing and AFTNing you are not just waking sleeping dogs. Especially south of the border.....
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 19:54
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I'm with IO540 PPR is an utter pain in the arse. Far enough when I call up a place on the radio only to be told its closed to visiting aircraft due waterlogged runway then fair enough perhaps I should have rang ahead. But some places are utter loons they have parking for twenty 737s yet they only have 12 movements a day but when you call them up they can't fit you in - its a joke.

If it so simple in the USA why can't it be in the EU?
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