Controller wages in Spain

[DIAF]

Just read an article in El Pais newspaper about how airports with less than 50 landings will get an automated system. The article said that on average Spanish air traffic controllers make three times the salary of their British counterparts.

There are 2,300 controllers in Spain, and in 2008, they earned an average of 338,000 euros for 1600 hours of work. Some 713 controllers earned between 340,000€ and 540,000€. A few even reaching 900,000€ due to extra hours worked.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek:

[Jors Troolie]

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif :confused:

Well done those spanish controllers! Now if only we all had negotiators and ATC unity like they obviously have.

[TWR]

An automated WHAT ?? :ooh:

[LEGAL TENDER]

average Spanish air traffic controllers make three times the salary of their British counterparts.

338,000 EUR... that would suggest that the average British ATCO makes £ 100,000 a year.
Which some do. But far from being the average

[RobertSC]

They want to cut down the spanish ATCO salaries to be more normal. And the government is doing a very hard campaign against the controllers, it started with lies when the minister said that controllers win a minimun of 370k, which made a lof of controllers earning 150-180k jump from their sits. And probably this huge salaries are part lies too. Probably, this is the cost of the controllers to the agency, not the gross salary, but amazing anyway.

Spain is going through difficult times with a big crisis and a 20% of unemployment, so the public opinion is quite sensible to these stunning salaries. In spain people makes normally an annual gross of 20-30k in average, 40-50k the well paid ones and 60-80k the very well paid jobs (managers, doctors at their 40s, etc,) so talk about these numbers of 300k its difficult to explain and deffend.

There is a precedent that a few years ago AENA tried to make a new agreement with the ATC's union to lower the salaries of the new atcs and maintain the big bucks of the ones that were in, but it didn't work when the voting was made inside the union by a little. So...who knows what will be the result now.

As I said before, let's see how this people manage to stop this minister which is saying their salaries in the news every damn day and what deal they do.

[flowman]

Thanks RobertSC. Its good to hear the Spanish angle on this. I have heard that the current delays into the Canary islands are also due to impending contract negotiations.
Keep it coming.:ok:

[Dan Dare]

I feel that I could cope with an average salary of €338000 - even in Madrid. I have been learning the lingo (Iberia123 pasar el BA, tu eres el primero) and understand that the Espanisch government want to put pressure in wages by taking cheap foreign labour.

SO where do I send my CV?

Good luck to my brothers in Spain, you're worth every Cent, just a shame the rest of us are paid so pobre.

[250 kts]

Iberia123 pasar el BA, tu eres el primero)

Muy bien.:ok:

[Dan Dare]

...pasar el BA, tu eres el primero

I'm sorry, with sober reading in the morning this feels like a cheap-shot based on nothing, but hearsay. I fear that IBE would report exactly the same from their LHR experience of BA and indeed any outsider operating at an airline's hub airport will have the perception that the base airline gets favouritism, because when they inevitably get overtaken, statistical odds are that it will be the base airline (but why let the truth get in the way of humour).

Back on-topic, the AENA wage bill is markedly increased by their reliance on overtime. IF they employed a suitable number of ATC staff they would not have a massive overtime bill and there would not be this outcry over some hard-working individuals raking in the escalating overtime payments.

[LEBB]

Few are honestly interested in contracting new controllers under the current terms of employment they enjoy in Spain. On one side that could have an impact in the overtime controllers are doing. On the other side they are trying to reduce salary costs by introducing "low-cost controllers" , AFISOS and maybe foreing controllers under different t&c. In any case , figures published are related to aprox. 45% of the 2400 controllers working in Spain. The other 55% enjoy a more "normal" salary , let's say btw.70-200k. I wannabe a spanish ATCO!!:{:{

[Imperator1300]

Wait till you hear about the retirement age and pension ;)

[caucatc]

LEGAL TENDER
The average wage of UK ATCO is less than 100,000 ponds ?????

[1985]

The average wage of UK ATCO is less than 100,000 ponds ?????


Much much less.

[95.8]

Outrage in Spain over soaring air traffic controllers’ pay - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6991798.ece)

Check out Chris K's comment. Unbelievable, Jeff?
Please can I train Gordon on TMA North....? :ok:

[flowman]

You get paid in ponds?:confused:
Is that some sort of wet lease?

[Sand Devil]

Well we seem to be treated like pondlife most of the time so why not? I'll take the one with the island! :}

[Jaun Huw Nose]

Please can I train Gordon on TMA North.

No thanks, he's f***ed up my life enough...:*

[Gingerbread Man]

British air traffic controllers are paid £60,000 on average but this can rise to around £90,000, according to NATS, the air traffic information service.

They'll love that; "NATS - A World Leader in Air Traffic Information".

[Conspiracy Theories]

hey TWR

as far as i understand it, there will be a person there but not necessarily a controller or someone deemed to be a controller for special cases and emergencies but the automated stuff is basically like an atis giving the relevant information (wind, weather landing runway....etc) and there will be a standard frequency for all planes arriving to coordinate between themselves on who will land first. thats how it was explained to me.
does that mean that the fire crew won't be there and if they are, who will notify them of any emergency anyway......i'm very concerned coz there is a lot of people out there that i'm sure if they knew they where travelling to a place with effectively, no traffic control.....i don't think i would want to get on that plane not to mention the serious insurance implications for airlines.

its like getting in a cab in the middle of london, doing 100mph with no traffic lights and you as the passenger can only see out a little window to the side.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

And further "inventory" steps shall include the next option:

-Heat the cold water until it becomes hot.


that it is the level of today's strategic and developer managers . :E

[Conspiracy Theories]

95.8

thanks for the link, i have just read the story and just the last sentence got me thinking actually......are the british controllers bottom of the list when it comes to pay in europe? the french can earn up to 110,000 euros which i assume is top of the scale for them.

i wonder if it would be possible to see the controllers to non controller staff ratio accross our european counterparts and compare it to ours. Maybe there is a pattern.

Just one more thing, the irish controllers are thinking or maybe have done already of going on strike about a 6% pay rise. i know its tough times but in that same thought, didn't PB get a 9% payrise?

[Malaysian28]

Came across this on Airliners.net

ATC In Spain Can Earn ?900,000 A Year — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4681446/)

[BDiONU]

didn't PB get a 9% payrise?
Is PB an ATCO? No, he's the Managing Director of a company with circa 5000 employees.

BD

[radarman]

BD,

PB may not be an ATCO, but he is still head of a company that professes to be terminally short of money. If that is really the case, how did he find the money for his 9%? I don't know what your particular position in the company is, but don't you get just a little p*ssed off when people at the top (not just NATS) take all the cream and then complain there's no money for everyone else? Last month we told NATS what they could do with their pay offer, so all strength to our Irish colleagues for having cojones as well.

[Conspiracy Theories]

BD

i appreciate that he has around 5000 employees below and i'm sure he is already on a very big wage that reflects that. It's just a little kick in the teeth when we are told that the pension cannot survive and things must change or we risk OUR company going out of business. i'm sure there was a lot of employees not knowing who was telling the truth and who wasn't.
then we are told that the pay rise talks didn't happen till half way through the year until the pensions was sorted and because of the economic downturn that the deal we got wasn't what was expected by a few.

I'm sure there will be people not liking me much for what i'm about to say but if the company was in trouble like we were lead to believe, then i would have voted for a pay freeze for a year and discuss a pay rise the following year then. Having said that, i would only agree to it if the managers and execs and any other level 4 employee would not get any bonuses and did not give themselves pay rise of up to 9% and had their pay stay the same.

To the employees......the company is in dire straits
To the MDs......its not that bad, we worked hard this year and met our objectives so a bonus and a pay rise.

it just doesn't seem fair. good on you ireland for having tough and resilient cojones ;) and well done to the spanish air traffic controllers for sticking together.

i think we need to move on from this bonus culture and just give them a basic wage. This is your job and you need to do it well and there will be no bonuses. if that is the case, if i control over 5000 aircraft more this year than last year, then i want a bonus too then.......

i think diverged off the main subject sorry.....would like to hear your opinion please

[kontrolor]

January 18, 2010
Outrage in Spain over soaring air traffic controllers’ pay
Graham Keeley in Madrid and Lucy Bannerman

*

Among the Spanish controllers, some were previously lawyers, doctors and engineers.

Every air traffic controller will agree: the pressure is intense and each shift is underlined by the fear that one mistake could be fatal.

In Spain, however, there’s another worry on their radar. A storm has followed the discovery that some controllers are earning more than £800,000 a year.

The revelation that Spain’s air traffic controllers can earn ten times more than their Prime Minister — and more than 50 times the average salary — has provoked outrage, while presumably raising more than a few (concentrated) eyebrows among lesser-paid counterparts across Europe.

The soaring salary scale was revealed as the country’s socialist Government announced plans to cut the cost of its loss-making airports, run by the state operator Aeropuertos Españoles y Navegación Aérea (AENA).


Of 2,300 controllers, ten were paid between €810,000 (£725,000) and €900,000 last year. A further 226 were paid between €450,000 and €540,000 and 701 were paid between €270,000 and €360,000.

The average basic salary is €200,000 but most double or triple this amount by working overtime.

In contrast, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, the Spanish Prime Minister, is paid €91,982 a year and the average salary in Spain is €18,087, according to government figures.

“Scandalous” harrumphed an editorial in El Mundo, the right-wing daily. “Half earn more than double the salary of a government minister.”

One cartoon showed a character, which resembled Emilio Botin, the chairman of Banco Santander, Europe’s biggest bank, studying how to be an air traffic controller.

Certainly some controllers were previously lawyers, doctors and engineers. One was a philosopher.

Few passengers can complain that preventing aircraft collisions is not worthy of reward but the pay may come as something of a surprise to the Britons whose holidays have been ruined by striking controllers.

Earlier this month, passengers endured long delays, after two runways were closed at Madrid Barajas airport, because of staff shortages among its controllers.

Spanish air traffic controllers work 12-hour days made up of two four-hour shifts and two, two-hour rest periods. Most do an average of 1,200 hours with 400 hours overtime a year, according to the government but the Union of Air Traffic Controllers (USCA), which negotiated the salaries, said its members work 2,000 hours a year with 575 hours extra.

The controllers must have a degree, speak good English and pass a medical test every two years. After they are 40, they must undergo the test every year. A long list of medical complaints, including heart or digestive problems, will rule them out of the job.

The minimum entry age is 18 and the maximum working age is 55. Air controllers must pass a series of exams, including one on aeronautics and other psychological tests before being accepted for training. These tests aim to establish if they are able to withstand fatigue and high levels of stress. If they pass, they undergo 15 months training, However, the jumbo pay packets look set to fly no farther.

“I have taken the decision to take the bull by the horns and end the privileges of these controllers,” José Blanco, the Development Minister, told the Spanish parliament, after it emerged that AENA, which manages Spain’s 48 state-run airports, had recorded a loss last year of €300 million.

Mr Blanco aims to cut the costs of air traffic control by at least €12.6 million next year, which could mean a pay freeze or job cuts. Spain is now considering replacing air traffic controllers with a computer system in at least 12 small airports, which handle fewer than 50 flights a day.

British air traffic controllers are paid £60,000 on average but this can rise to around £90,000, according to NATS, the air traffic information service. Their French counterparts take home €110,000.

[pamplinas]

Hi there,
as a spanish atc I would like to bring in some facts:

- First of all, the published figures (I’m referring to the average salary, as I personally doubt anyone could have reached above 600k) are supposed to come from the year 2008 with record-breaking traffic demand and previous to the actual crisis. Also they refer to gross employee costs, not salaries. That is, they include taxes (43%) and other administration costs. Net wages should be way below half of the figures shown.

- Productivity rates are also being coarsely twisted. Spanish enroute productivity is way above european average. Tower productivity should be held out of comparison, as many ANSP (e.g. NATS) do not include data from airports under 50.000 operations/year (see ACE reports, 2004-2007). Also average delays are among the lowest of Europe.

- Salaries of spanish atcos are published in the collective agreement from 1999. They do not differ that much from what I’ve been reading from other countries, ranging from 60.000 to 140.000€ (again gross annual income, that is, before taxes).

- Other labor conditions included in our agreement are comparable: 1.200 working hours (operational), 25% break time in day shifts, 50% in night shifts, retirement at 55 (52 if 30 years in ops or more)...

- With less than 2000 atcos in ops for 40+ airports, 4 ACCs and 2 TACCs, we are clearly understaffed. AENA has not recruited a single atco since 2006, the reasons unknown. (My guess: they are probably taking their time to try and find some way to hire any kind of “low-cost” atc). Also there are plenty of people about to retire who probably haven’t yet due to the well paid overtime they are being offered.

- I do believe that, until now, AENA preferred to pay high wages to overtimed workers than to hire new staff (less fixed costs, more flexibility, less investment...).

- That said, what makes our salaries rocket is overtime. AENA accepted to negotiate costly agreements to commit the staff to work overtime. Everything went ok as the traffic soared and the general economy was rising freely. When the traffic fell and the crisis came in, the problem arose.

- AENA has an enormous debt, nearly 14.000 million €, due to massive investments in main airports (T4 in LEMD, T1 in LEBL, new terminals in LEAL, LEMG...), new openings and maintenance of many highly loss-making airports (LERJ, LEVX, GCGM, GCHI...) and many other management disasters. Be noted, that AENA is a publicly owned company that is in care of both air navigation and airport management. The latter is done under a network scheme, that is, benefits reported from any airport (just a few are profitable) cover the costs of the whole group. Navigation fees should cover service costs.

- However the company’s accountability is mysteriously unclear, as it seems to systematically hide many airports cost items under navigation’s account while some navigation’s incomings stay under airport’s side. Some suspect there’s a clear intention to show better figures in the airport side in order to help some kind of privatization.

- In any case, they accuse atcos of being responsible of the company’s debt. Being navigation costs under 800 million €, it’s hard to believe how atc could have figured such a debt. Needless to say, should the spanish atcos work free for 20 years, the company’s financial situation would still be far away from being solved.

- So I guess they are using spanish atcos as scapegoats (by the way, this controversy is also proving really helpful for the government, as it keeps people away from wondering about unemployment, corruption and other scandals).

- Trying to take advantage of this controversy to discredit the whole work of spanish atcos, their professionalism and capacity is really mean. That includes accusations of having back doors to the job, nepotism or blackmail. I believe envy is profusely being used to feed this matter. I would like to stress that access to our job is through an absolutely clean and competitive process run by independent and renowned professionals. We are certainly proud of it and we believe that not being so would mean the beginning of our end.

- Spanish atcos are not holding any kind of strike or protest. Traffic restrictions in spanish airports since December are due to the company’s new policy. In order to cut costs radically, they’ve decided to reorganize every single work schedule, breaking all agreements on the count of a predicted descent of traffic that has proven way too pessimistic. This means that staffs have been reduced in about 30%-40% while workload has descended barely 5%. Atc capacity has been exceeded by far, hence the flow restrictions. This has been specially noted in the Canary region (high season) and in LEMD.

- Not having enough pressure on our shoulders, the company has started a general offensive to supervise every single aspect of our daily job, demanding presence checks even in our break time, threatening with disciplinary actions against supervisors who requested flow restrictions, braking several agreements on vacations and shifts organization... and of course starting a violent and constant campaign in the media against us.

- Fearing fines and sanctions, we’ve even been told not to give so many direct reroutings, as Eurocontrol has expressed a complaint about its effect in the flow management:
EUROCONTROL - Flight Plan & ATFCM adherence (http://www.eurocontrol.int/dmean/public/standard_page/FPL_ATFCM_adherence.html)
Needless to say, not giving direct routings isn't helping to increase our popularity.

- Public outrage is starting to be a matter of concern. At least 2 workers have seen their property damaged on the count of this subject. Atcos from the Basque Country now fear blackmail from ETA (the terrorist group) since their supposed wages are being published almost daily.

- However I do believe that we are doing our best to find a solution. USCA (the spanish atc union) has decided to keep a low profile, to avoid new headlines and to concentrate on the negotiations that are being held with AENA. We are strongly committed to cut costs reducing the amount and price of overtime and offering more flexibility in staff planning. Even though, AENA seems to be aiming far higher, trying to erase most of our labor achievements. Not to talk about the intentions to wipe out atc from 12 regional airports with the introduction of AFIS. Time will tell...

[Out The Gap]

Que fuerte!

Thankyou pamplinas for providing some facts. As an Irish controller hoping eventually to work in Spain, I will keep a close eye on developments...

Saludos.