Near collision at EDDF/Frankfurt

[B-HKD]

The German air traffic control organisation (DFS) just confirmed on bild.de (german only link) that on the 18th of July at 2am Local time, a Cessna 425 operating an ambulance flight from FRA was cleared to taxi from the southern GA ramp and takeoff from 25R.

In order to do this, the plane had to cross 25L and then cross taxiway Charlie which runs parallel between 07R/25L and 07L/25R. Upon reaching taxiway Charlie, the Cessna began its takeoff roll while a LH 733 was doing a engine run on the same taxiway. Aticle says the C425 cleared the 733 by 20m(65ft.)

Only one of the four ATCOS was at their designated place during the event. (all four suspended)

Link for tze germanz.
Rhein-Main nachts um 2: Nur ein paar Meter fehlten zur Katastrophe - Frankfurt - Frankfurt - Bild.de (http://www.bild.de/BILD/regional/frankfurt/aktuell/2009/08/05/fast-katastophe/auf-rhein-main-flughafen.html)

Zoni :ouch:

[All-Ex]

Why would the Cessna start the takeoff run on the taxiway and accelerate to "200 km/h"?

[eagle21]

They called efficienzy , I am sure they were all sure they were doing the rights thing. I prefer to call it complacency...

[VSB via OL]

Is this right, he was given clearance to both taxy AND take-off?? Surely T/O clearance should only to be given when entering / lining up, especially at fields where there is other ground activity?

[Super VC-10]

Do I understand that they took off from a taxiway and not the runway? :confused:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Surely T/O clearance should only to be given when entering / lining up, especially at fields where there is other ground activity?>>

Err, why?? I've cleared aircraft for take off at Heathrow on a number of occasions when they have been some distance from the runway - even just leaving their parking gate.

This matter is being discussed in several other threads too..

[Avman]

Cessna confused taxiway C for runway 25R. Nothing wrong clearing an a/c for t-off whilst still taxying, however, it is ATC's responsability to monitor the situation. Unfortunately it's only too easy to get complacent when things are quiet. I remember an airmiss my unit had back in the early eighties. It involved the only two aircraft in the sector in the middle of the night!

[INNflight]

They did that Cessna / B737 illustration at bild.de just so that the majority of their subscribers can properly understand the issue, just FYI. :E

edit: In case you read German:

"Dann passiert das Wahnsinnige: Der Pilot der Cessna startet auf dem Rollweg durch, beschleunigt die Maschine auf etwa 200 km/h, lässt das Flugzeug steigen – und überfliegt die Boeing in geschätzten 20 Metern Höhe!"

...is written like a 13 year old would. At best :ugh:

[Nightrider]

...is written like a 13 year old would.

is there any article written by an adult? :E

[Basil]

Whilst I defer to the opinions of experienced civil ATCOs, I cannot help but feel that it is safer to leave Take Off Clearance until the aircraft is approaching the holding point. I do appreciate that it can be impossible to withold T/O clearance until there is no chance of the pilot then turning on to, e.g., a parallel taxiway.
Is it clear that the air ambulance was given T/O clearance at the same time as taxi clearance?

Bas - RAF pilot & ATCO (nothing like as difficult as LATCC)

[Avman]

Perhaps at night when it's quiet and it wouldn't congest the frequency, a "call rolling" might be handy to give the ATCO a chance to look up and see that all is as should be. By the way, there's no need to have all four ATCOs on duty at that time of the night. They need to be rested for the morning rush which begins only a few hours later. This incident has NOTHING to do with the number of ATCOs in the tower at the time.

[Kerosene Kraut]

Already covered twice on pprune

Check this one please:
http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/383365-three-german-atcos-degraded-office-work.html

and that one as well:
http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/383850-german-dfs-suspending-four-tower-staff-frankfurt-after-double-incident.html

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Whilst I defer to the opinions of experienced civil ATCOs, I cannot help but feel that it is safer to leave Take Off Clearance until the aircraft is approaching the holding point.........

Bas - RAF pilot & ATCO (nothing like as difficult as LATCC)>>

Bas.. I don't know what experience you have, but in civil aviation operations we like to have things in black and white so show me the refernce that says you shouldn't do it. Probably not so much nowadays, but at Heathrow (and other aerodromes where I have worked) there would be occasional slack times with nothing at the holding point.. So, next aircraft taxying out would be cleared to line up and take off with maybe 500 yards to go to the runway. Everything remotely close to the traffic would be under positive ATC control so there is just no reason to "feel" that it's not safe.

With respect, that's why we get daft headlines - some journo plonker reads on here that an RAF pilot "felt it was unsafe" and splashes it on the Daily Garbage when there may have been no justification for such comment.

[ron83]

It involved the only two aircraft in the sector in the middle of the night!

I remember on Human Factor lessons we have been told that most of the incidents happen when there are between 2-4 acft on frequency :rolleyes:

[MANAGP]

Give me a TO clearance whilst taxing out and I'll be grateful.
Less brakewear, less stop start, less CO2!
I'll double check when lined up, with either 'confirm take off for.....' or a simple '.... rolling'.
Let's be honest here it's human nature to 'wander' but changing the system will only fix one problem to create another one. The 'unrestricted' SID fiasco springs to mind!

[20milesout]

DFS (Deutsche Flugsicherung) press release, as per today available in German only:

Langen, 4. August 2009

Vorfall am Flughafen Frankfurt

In der Nacht vom 17. auf den 18. Juli 2009 war es auf dem Frankfurter Rhein-Main-Flughafen zu einer gefährlichen Annäherung zwischen zwei Flugzeugen gekommen. Gegen 2.00 Uhr morgens war ein Flugzeug vom Typ Cessna 425, eine zweimotorige Turboprop-Maschine, entgegen der Anweisung des Towerlotsen von einem Rollweg gestartet, der parallel zwischen den beiden Start- und Landebahnen verläuft. Ein Flugzeug vom Typ Boeing 737, das zu einem Triebwerkprobelauf auf dem Rollweg stand und mit Technikern besetzt war, wurde bei dem Vorfall in geringer Höhe überflogen. Die Towerbesatzung hatte den Vorfall nicht bemerkt und war erst durch den Piloten der startenden Maschine informiert worden.

Die DFS Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH meldete den Vorfall umgehend der Aufsichtsbehörde und der Bundesstelle für Flugunfalluntersuchung (BFU), die ihre Untersuchung sofort aufnahm. Bei der DFS-internen Untersuchung wurden Unregelmäßigkeiten bei der Besetzung der Tower-Arbeitsplätze festgestellt. Die Untersuchung wurde Ende letzter Woche abgeschlossen und ergab, dass von den vier Mitarbeitern - drei Fluglotsen und eine Flugdatenbearbeiterin –zeitweise nicht alle Arbeitsplätze wie vorgeschrieben besetzt waren. Die DFS sieht im Verhalten der Mitarbeiter einen eklatanten Verstoß gegen die Vorschriften und hat die vier Mitarbeiter mit sofortiger Wirkung von der Tätigkeit im Tower suspendiert.

See the chart here (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B53jySZGvEYyMTk4OGNjN2UtOWYyYS00NWE5LTkxZGQtMzJ iZThiMGJkMjBl&hl=en). Taxiway in question is CHARLIE

[Basil]

HD
some journo plonker reads on here that an RAF pilot "felt it was unsafe"
Couple of points:
1. I did NOT say that it was unsafe - that's an absolute. I said <<I cannot help but feel that it is safer>> - that's comparative.
2. I'm also a civil airline captain (up to B747) who's held a command in two international majors.

I politely expressed the opinion of an experienced professional and have read nothing which alters it.

I may say that Frankfurt, into which I have operated on many occasions, is a little 'odd'.

[manintower]

As a retired controller with 35 yrs experience, 20 in towers, I strongly believe aircraft should not be issued with a takeoff clearance until approaching the holding point ( early enough to avoid slowing down for the HP if possible) for the following reasons:

controller does a final runway scan and wind check
more meaningful coordination with departures
more certainty to the pilot he has a clearance when entering the rwy
confirmation that the pilot is approaching the correct rwy
greater certainty that there is no other aircraft on short final

[Pteropsid]

... written like a 13-year old....

INNFlight - "Bild" started life as a newspaper with pictures, and nothing but pictures, with very small captions....

The captions have grown over the years, but "Bild" will never be an "Economist" or "Spiegel" - written for a different target group.

[ORAC]

I remember an airmiss my unit had back in the early eighties. It involved the only two aircraft in the sector in the middle of the night! Hmmm, you wouldn't have happened to have been at Scottish/Highland radar would you?

[Duck Rogers]

Already covered twice on PPRuNe......Three german ATCOs degraded to office work (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/383365-three-german-atcos-degraded-office-work.html)
German DFS suspending four tower staff at Frankfurt after double-incident (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/383850-german-dfs-suspending-four-tower-staff-frankfurt-after-double-incident.html)


Indeed.
Duck