PPL training /SFH in South Africa

[Prunie]

I am going on holiday to SA in Jan/Feb next year and am wondering about the potential for ga flying out there.

My hubby has 400 P1 hours (mostly C172) and I am learning (tho I prefer paragliding) and we would be interested to hire or go "flotilla flying"

Anyone got any ideas?

[aerostar2]

Prunie

I just got back from doing the same. Before going I posted on the African Aviation forum and got some v. helpful replies - if you visit it and set it to view more than about 15 days back you'll find "SA questions from a UK PPL".

Getting a license conversion is more tedious than the US - I went with a safety pilot instead, partly because of lack of time and also they are in the rainy season and the weather was unreliable, so no guarantee of flying.

We flew (legally) over the centre of Pretoria low level - unusual experience for a UK pilot, and it goes without saying that the views there and across the country were stunning.

As for paragliding - I can't help but think of Table Mountain!!

By the way if you go to Cape Town the tourist trip to Robben Island is a must.

Have fun

Garry

[Prunie]

Hi Gary

Thanks for the reply, have had a quick search for the African list you mention but havent managed to track it down so far - can you give me the URL.

TIA

Prunie

[SouthXross]

I’m x-South African now flying in the UK. The place is very big so before you start asking about how you might want to start by deciding where you want to fly. A few places that is very nice ad scenic is George and Knysna, with a great airfield. Also Pretoria has its charms and Midrand has a very good airfield with full ATC and a very friendly training college and rentals. Conversions are point many complain about but well worth it. A good place to start your search will be on www.ananzi.co.za (http://www.ananzi.co.za) . It’s the local web search ad most are listed there.

SX

PS . Oh and one more point, when flying around Midrand watch the airspace closely and avoid low flying over any squatters camps, you’ll see them as large brown patches, its not unusual for aircraft to be fired on…

[aerostar2]

Hope this works.

web page (http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000720)

Forgot to mention how cheap flying - and everything - is in SA

Cheers

Garry

[pwyld]

To fly in SA you need to get a validation of your UK PPL and RT licence.
The RT licence is just form filling and fee paying in Johannesburg, PPL validated by writing a law paper (not difficult) and flying one hour with instructor + one hour dual cross country followed by a trip to DCA in Pretoria more form filling and fee paying- cost about 250 Rand + the flying.

addendum, having arrived here in SA and revalidated my licence
The fees for RT Validation at ICASA in Jo'burg - 30 Rand (less than two quid) done while you wait.
PPL Validation (after getting RT Validation and flight test etc) 285 Rand, takes a few hours (at CAA in Pretoria). Flight Test / Nav Ex and Air Law only needed the first time, validation is annual.

[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: Peter Wyld ]

[WO]

Can anyone offer any advice on flight training in South Africa, such as schools, prices etc? I've been having a quick look around the web, and what with the strength of the GBP against the rand ( 1 rand = 6p! ), I think that it might be a good opportunity to do some cheap training.. .If anyone knows of schools that offer JAA certified training, i'd be very interested indeed!

WO

[Token Bird]

As yet there is only one flight school in SA that has JAR approval and that is Flight Training College of Africa, based at Grand Central Airport, Midrand, Jo'burg.

They currently offer JAR PPL, CPL and full-time ATPL groundschool.

<a href="http://www.ftc-sa.com" target="_blank">Here</a> is their website,

TB

[scrot]

Has anyone used the Flight Training College of South Africa? I am considering doing a JAR PPL there, ultimately (hopefully) leading to a CPL/IR any comments?

[Smaug]

Has an ok reputation but not the cheapest place around. I think its the only place you can do a JAR PPL in SA. Reasonable sized fleet, mostly new Pipers. Have their own accommodation block nearby so transport not absolutely necessary. You thought about doing SA PPL and converting?, much cheaper places to fly in SA.

[scrot]

Noted your comments thanks, Yes I have thought about doing a SA PPL and then converting but it seemed a lot of hassle if you want to be based in UK. The flight training college of South Africa also seem to do a lot of commercial flight training so I thought it looked a resonable environment to learn in.

[digga]

Scrot,

Just finished my JAR PPL @ FTC. Had a good time. Good facilities and instructors - you'll neeed more than 4 weeks though.. cost me about £4k total.. .Drop me an e-mail if u want any more info.. .digga

[flight deck man]

Hi GRpr,

Would like to mail you for some info about Progress and 43 airschool but I can't seem to see how to do this. Do you need a pprune e-mail address first. I already have another e-mail address. . .Hoping to do flying training at one of these two schools.

Cheers

[bruce.benson]

GRPR,

I trained at Progress ( jun 99 to Jun 2000). Were you there?

There's no email address in your profile.

N.

[Grim Reaper 14]

Apologies to all of you out there who must be sick of reading these requests, but here we go again.... .. .About to do my intensive course in SA, 4 weeks to get my PPL. I've paid my deposit already so any comments of, "do it in the UK" will be unfortunately invalid. Best advice from all and sundry would be greatly appreciated. Anything from study well beforehand, to don't wet yourself on your first solo!. .. .Many thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

[sennadog]

I'd start studying like a mad man now if I were you! Get your teeth into Air Law first and use the questions at the back of the book before you use the Confuser! I'd commit to studying on the flight down there and use as much free time that you have before going to study - keep getting 100% on the Confuser and the Thom questions and then learn to give verbal answers.. .. .After that I'd start on Meteorology and then Technical. A lot of the Navigation and RT you will pick up as you are flying so it will be easier to learn from the books. Human Performance you can leave until last as it's the easiest by far.. .. .By studying now you will make it easier on yourself when you are learning to fly and if you can give your brain a break you will appreciate it as it is very knackering.. .. .I'd also get your medical done over here as this will save you half a day of messing around which you may need when you are there.. .. .Good luck and have fun!. . . . <small>[ 04 March 2002, 18:48: Message edited by: sennadog ]</small>

[skyraider]

GR14.. . .. .I flew in SA during in Jan so here are some pointers. The country is BIG!! also next to nothing in the way of nav aids for XC's and one hill looks much like another so watch your track, times and headings. You WILL be a good navigator at the end... Watch out for thunderstorms in the afternoons. Not unusual to have 3-5 in sight on any given day...Gets pretty turbulent on hot day's,. .apart from that it's a helluva place to fly and the airspace is quieter too... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> ..where are you flying..?. .. ....make sure that you are ready to write an exam anytime you cant fly because of weather..happens more often than you would have thought.... .. .have fun. .Sky

[robpowell69]

Firstly just to say ive only just discovered this site but i am amazed at how good this site is!. .. .I am curently studying for a non aviation degree in the UK aged 21. However aviation has always been my dream and i am in the process of deciding to do my PPL in south Africa with a view of going on to get a full commercial licence after uni.. .. .I am aware of the prices of a few schools but i was wandering if anyone had any advice on the matter. Are there any schools i should avoid and are there any ones that may be slightly more expensive but with better value in terms of aircraft, quality of training and facilities.. .. .Any advice on this matter would be much appreciated

[BRL]

Hi Rob, have you tried the wannabes forum as well as this as they are pretty clued in too about what you want to know.?

[Grim Reaper 14]

Rob,. .To the best of my knowledge, there are very few (one?)JAR compliant schools in SA. Go to . ."www.ftc-sa.com" to see the details of one. If it's of any use to you, I'm hoping to do mine there soon, finishing mid-May, so if you let me know your details, I can let you have an update once I'm back.. .To me it offered the best option. The current Rand rate makes the cost about £3500, including PPL kit, ground school, exams, 4 weeks accommodation in single, en-suite facilities and 45 hours flying in either a PA28, C172 or Diamond Katana. Also 'top-up' hours should you need them over and above the 45 are only about £50 per hour.. .You might be ok with a three week course at your age, but my receptors are a bit rusty at my age, which is why I went for a 4 week course, with lots of pre-course reading!. .. .Best of luck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

[AeroBatfink]

Loads of 'ifs' and 'buts' with this matter, and a lot of it depends on what you want out of it afterwards. I did my PPL in SA last year, and I'm going back in May to do some more flying. Email me if I can help with any info - it may also be worth doing a search in the Wannabes and African Aviation forum as well as this one. . .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .AB

[robpowell69]

To Grim Reaper 14 and Areo Batfink 14.. .. .Cheers for the feedback , and i would like to remain in contact with you with regards to this matter and your experience would be appreciated.. .. .Your e-mails are not present but if you wouldnt mind me getting in touch my e-mail is : [email protected]. .. .Please get in touch!. .. .Daydreamer. .. .PS which flight school did you go to AreoBatfink and what are the ifs and buts?

[englishal]

If you want to go flying in South Africa, does the SA CAA issue a licence based upon your foreign licence? In particular are ratings carried across, ie. ME and IR from say an FAA PPL?

I'm thinking of heading down that way later this year, went a few years back, before I was an aviator and loved it (I remember paying 2½ rand for a beer in a pub, and this was when there was 6 rand to the pound. Now its nearer 10 isn't it?)

Cheers
EA

[Irv]

Recently back from getting a validation and renting at Algoa in Port Elizabeth -
www.algoafc.co.za
excellent place generally, (and socially), good aircraft, great weather and even better, extremely efficient at organising UK-SA validation paperwork in advance so it can be finished off quickly on arrival. I was completely legal and flying off by next lunchtime after arrival one afternoon !

Send them an email - I'm sure the address will be on that site and they know all the rules and regs - they have an expert.

[englishal]

Thanks Irv, I'll do that.

Cheers
EA

[bornair]

EA
If you are heading for Cape Town, I can help you with the validation and flying

[englishal]

Thanks bornair, that'd be great. I am not sure exactly when I'd be heading down your way, though probably just after the summer here....

Do you fly from Cape Town? If so where from and roughly how much do you pay for aircraft hire, (singles / twin). I'd be interested to know whether the SA CAA will issue me a multi rating based on my FAA ME, and what the requirements for ME rental would be.

I spent some time down in Cape Town in '96, I was working on a seismic survey ship and we were in dry dock for a month. Actually working is the wrong word, it was a month long ****-up. Fantastic place, beautiful beaches, excellent people and I can't wait to come back.

Cheers
EA

[invalid entry]

Hi,
I am in the middle of validating my UK licence at the moment in Cape Town.
You need to
convert your radio licence - about 30R
Pass an open book airlaw exam
Pass a flying test involving the usual stuff plus a cross country element
Fill out and send the form to Pretoria.

I am doing all this with Delta 200 at Cape Town Intl Airport.
Very friendly outfit with Cessna 150 at about £35/hr.
Hope this helps

[bornair]

Hi EA,
You can fly from Cape Town or Stellenbosch and the rates are about GBP35 per hour for a Piper Warrior or GBP75 for a Piper Aztec. To validate your licence, you will need to do an open book air law test, flying skills and navigation test as mentioned by "invalid entry". The costs excluding aircraft and instructor are about GBP2 for the radio licence, GBP20 for CAA validation and GBP7 for the licence. There could be a small charge for some ground briefing. Hope that helps and let me know when you are coming to Cape Town and I will organise it for you.

Cheers

[englishal]

Thanks for your replys.

I'll email you when I'vde decided on a date Bornair.

Cheers
EA

[Fujiflyer]

englishal

There's an interesting write up in May 2002 Pilot magazine where someone describes their holiday flying in SA. The licencing logistics are fairly well covered by it. Let me know if you would like me to email it to you.

Fujiflyer:) :)

[englishal]

Hi Fuji,

I'd be grateful if you could email it if its not too much trouble.

Cheers
EA:)

[email protected]

[Fujiflyer]

Hi englishal

I'll try and do it tonight, when I get back from Shoreham. Its about 4 - 5 pages so expect a download of a few MB

Fujiflyer :)

[Bob Fleming]

Anybody know anything about building hours in south africa?

Like which schools and what the rates are like? (esp twin rates). I'm looking to build up twin hours from the measly 20 that I currently have.

any info appreciated


thanks



Flem:confused:

[FRIDAY]

I have seen advertisements for "cape flying" which offer 350 loggable twin/turbine hrs, at what cost I don't know. You will see the advert at the back of most mags.
Also worth a gander is "phoebus" who operate a DC-3, wow my favourite plane I would certainly invest in hours on that.

[malaysian eaglet]

You can make your hours building in Malaysia, it is cheaper than SA and the country is also quite interesting.

[tonyblair]

Perhaps a little off topic, but I wonder if anyone can advise me.

I'm looking at starting training this autumn and have been searching here for the options. There's certainly a wealth of data if you use the search function. What I'm not sure about is the validity of the do-it-yourself modular approach. A couple of friends of my father who are pilots have given me conflicting advice; both seem logical to me.

On the one hand, I'm told to save money, use the modular route and build my hours as cheaply as possible cause at the end of the day an airline will be assessing me & my performance in training (e.g. 1st time passes etc.) & not how I got my licence.

On the other, I'm told either go integrated, or do a structured modular course, because its easy to waste the 150 hours "drilling holes in the sky" (I loved that phrase!).

The latter advice seems logical. I've seem some ads for hours building (especially in the States) that emphasise how you can spend hours & hours doing long solo cross-countries. Probably cheap, but I have not learnt at the same rate on the little solo flying I've done. It's important, and certainly has given me great confidence, but I think 100 hours of it will be a waste of time. Sort of negates the modular route though.

What do you think?

[Crosswind Limits]

tonyblair,

Way off topic! You might be better posting a new thread.

[Bob Fleming]

Tony

I told you not to talk to cherie about these things...

[tonyblair]

Hmmm Crosswind, I guess you are right. I'm new to PPrune as well as flying! Guess I have a lot to learn! New topic coming up.

[Token Bird]

FRIDAY,

Another person just like me (DC-3 obsessed). The DC-3 owned by Phoebus Apollo is for their charter operation. I don't think you can buy hours on it. If you are really interested in flying the Dak and have £17000 to spare try South Coast Airways (http://www.southcoastairways.com). Alternately, Tyler Aviation (http://www.tyleraviation.com) run a first officer program where you pay to fly the Dak commercially in the Caribbean. Packages start at 10800 USD for 250 hours. I wouldn't normally advocate working for no pay, let alone paying to work but I might be tempted to make an exception for the Dak.

Bob,

Sorry, drifted off topic slightly. Back to the hour-building in SA thing. Try Flight Training College of Africa (http://www.ftc-sa.com). Not sure if they allow twin hire though. Single is about £55 ph, and the scenery is beautiful,

TB

[clearthedecks]

I was considering doing a PPL course in South Africa, and wondered if there is anyone out there who has been there, done that and got the t-shirt etc. and have any comments on flying in South Africa.

[Ivchenko]

Don't have the t-shirt as I did mine in the UK, but I did do some flying out of Wonderboom last year and if I were doing a licence from scratch I would definitely do it there.

It's unbelievably cheap (both to fly and to live), and there's an enthusiasm lacking in many UK schools. Please do a search because many of your questions will have already been answered on these forums. The guys on the African forum are extremely helpful and will not only answer any new questions but might even open some doors for you.

Of course there would be work to do once you got back, but as a head start, an hours cruncher and a confidence builder SA would be great.

If you do go, and feel the need for a break from flying, a trip to Robben Island from Cape Town is a remarkable experience and will definitely give you something to think about.

Have fun
:)

[BRL]

Hi. I have just sent a copy of this post to the African forum. Keep an eye on it there too...... :)

[Grim Reaper 14]

As per most replies, if you want to do a JAR PPL, you have no choice in SA but to do it at FTC in Midrand. I suggest you contact them directly for payment etc. but as usual, by all means pay a deposit, but don't part with the bulk until you're more than happy with them. Nothing against FTC in particular, just the usual advice I guess.

Planes are fine, 4 brand new PA-28's but also C172's if you'd prefer, together with some older PA28's. Accommodation is basic, food might push your taste bud limits, but for the price, is more than acceptable. The on site bar is a good site to sink a few, but there is usually an excursion somewhere in someones 'rent-a-wreck' that will keep you going. Safety on-site is fine, but don't walk into town on your own after dark (a bit like most places in Central London!). Local facilities are few and far between. One shopping centre, NO shops on site, not even a little convenience store if you've run out of toothpaste.

Now to the important bit. Instruction for PPL's is good, but PLEASE allow yourself AT LEAST 5 weeks to complete. There are many many people who go for the 4 weeker and don't complete. This is mainly due to a distinct lack of organisation with regard to the aircraft. They'll be double booked, cancelled without notice, unavailable due to the previous lesson over running, in for service (all at once sometimes!!), etc. etc. The weather, despite the "350 flying days per year" will OFTEN let you down as a PPL student (wind and visibility the main ones). If you can, do some exams first. The first week at FTC seems to be medicals, x-rays, admin stuff and about 6 hours flying. This will leave you seriously behind schedule in your flying, meaning that 3 flying 'slots' per day AND groundschool will leave you absolutely knackered. Sunday is a compulsory 'no flying' day for PPL'ers', especially if you went out and got 'shedded' the night before.

Please feel free to e-mail me if you want any other thoughts about the place:p

[RotorHorn]

I'm off visiting relatives in SA in November - and as any normal flying-obsessed person would have done, I've already looked into doing some flying whilst I'm out there.

A place in Durban has quoted me £115/hr+VAT for an R22 and £175/hr+VAT for an R44 sfh or dual!

Compare that with sfh of £135+VAT/hr for an R22 and £275+VAT/hr for an R44 in the UK and you can see why I'm thinking of doing some serious hour building over there!!!

Ivchenko, thanks for the Robben Island suggestion - might try that if I get as far as Cape Town!

[alby2000]

Hi and thanks for stopping by...
I decided, after a big period of constant pondering, to take the chance to accomplish my dream. I'm about to leave for South Africa, where i'll be training for my first PPL. I still have a sort of little concern about the opportunity for me to convert the South African PPL into a JAR one. Can anyone give me a hand? Thanks in advance!
Alby:)

[Wibbly P]

Dear Alby,

It's easy

SA PPL with less than 100 hours

+ JAR Class 2 Med
+ All 7 PPL Exams
+ JAR PPL Skills test

Forms JAR02 and FCL508, Logbook, Med, SA PPL and £143 to CAA

= JAR PPL(A)

Note - if more than 100 hours only Air Law and Human Performance needed.

You can use your SA PPL in the UK whilst the SEP rating and Medical remain valid if you wish to get up to the 100 hour mark. it's an ICAO Licence and that is fine for hiring G-Reg A/C without even converting it.

However if you go to FTC South Africa you can do a JAR PPL out there.

NOW WILL SOMEONE ANSWER MY GYROPLANE ENQUIRY!!!!

Wibbly P

[RotorHorn]

WP - whilst you've got your thinking cap on...

If I go to SA with my JAR-PPL(H) and do a Jetranger rating whilst I'm out there - will that allow me to fly Jetrangers in the UK?

Sorry mate, can't help with Gyroplanes.

[Wibbly P]

Rotorhorn,

No. To endorse your JAR-PPL(H) you would need to do the Jetranger course at a JAR approved school, either in the UK or in another member state.

However, should you come back with it endorsed on a SA PPL(H) then you would be able to fly G-reg 206's on your SA Licence!

Strange, nonsensical but true.

Wibbly

[loglickychops]

I'm going to South Africa - The garden route. Starting at Cape Town and Finishing at JoHo. ybody know a good place to get a light single and check out the scenary for a day? And what are the usual requirements to be able to hire an a/c over there - a quick check ride with the FI, or are there more hurdles to jump over before I can use my UK PPL in a South African registered a/c solo.

Any help would be most appreciated. Oh, and how many jabs do I need?

[BRL]

Hi there. I have just copied this to the African forum. Keep an eye on it there too Good luck :)

[FNG]

Judging from recent magazine articles and postings here, there may be a bit more to getting checked out for SA (assuming you start with a CAA, JAR or other ICAO PPL) than there is for, say, the US, but Irv Lee at Popham has the requisite South African qualifications to check you out and sort out the paperwork before you go. Have fun, and please tell us about your trip, as it's one I'm thinking of for next year (or might do Oz instead).

[PFLsAgain]

I'm doing much the same sort of thing this September. To fly in SA on a JAA PPL you have to take an open book air law exam and then a validation flight. This is basically a GFT plus a short triangular nav. trip. You then have to get your documents to the SA CAA and get issued with a SA PPL. This can take one to several days depending on the club you are flying with.

Irv Lee can do SA PPL revalidations in this country, but when I asked a few weeks ago, I was told that he cannot yet do the initial validation before you go. You have to do that in SA.

I am doing my validation and hire with Algoa at Port Elizabeth. From my dealings with them so far I can tell you that they are friendly, helpful, and very, very efficient. Why don't you talk to them - they will clear up the details for you.

As for the jabs - as far as I can see, you don't need any unless you are going to a known malarial area (basically the national parks in the north), or you are coming from an area with endemic yellow fever (not the UK!). But don't take my word for it - check with the foreign office web site.

[Sultan Ismail]

Sounds like an interesting adventure, but first consider a few points

Check your geography and the relevant ICAO maps
To visit the garden Route, the town of George is a more suitable base
Cape Town is obviously best for seeing the Cape Peninsula and flatlands
There is a solid line of mountains to the North and East of Cape Town that could offer problems if you have only flown in the UK flatlands
Cape Town to Joeys is about 1200 km and is a lot of nothingness, you get jaundice looking at the maps of the Karoo and the Free State
Paperwork is best sorted out in the UK, there appears to be some gent at Popham who can help, the basic requirement is to write air law (SA CAA) and take a check ride
You can hire and fly at Cape Town International and George, and possibly Fisantekraal (North of CT), rates about ZAR600 dual on PA28
No jabs required
Most important point, the summer starts in the Cape on 25 December, it's a fact


Hope this helps

Sultan Ismail

[foghorn]

Do it, you won't regret it. The garden route is a fabulous part of the world and it is all the better from the air. Cape Town - Plettenberg Bay or George is an easy flight and at Plett you can get a ride into town in ten minutes (or hire a car) to drive to Storms River/Tsitsikamma National Park. From George it is a quick short drive to Wilderness and Knysna - all worth a visit.

Make sure you do a low pass through the Knysna lagoon and take full advantage of SA's lax 500' rule!

Negotiating George's class C is a little bizarre if you're used to the UK where controlled airspace is a radar environment - they're full procedural as there's no radar (plus the controller is also the tower at George so he's often busy with circuit traffic), so make sure you know the VRPs (Albertinia and Sedgefield, from memory)

My CPL qualifying cross country was Plettenberg Bay - Beaufort West - Swellendam - (Garden Route) - Plettenberg Bay. Ahhh memories...

cheers!
foggy.

[loglickychops]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice. WIll let you know how it goes. Incidentally, I wasd surprised no one mentioned Thunder City. Maybe I should try a short nav ex in oner of their T5s!

[foghorn]

Good Hope Flying Club and Thunder City share a clubhouse, so if you want to look at the big metal hire from them (2 x PA28, 2 x PA38, 1 x C172RG)

It's fun at CPT being told you're number two to the Hunter on right base.

[pkos]

Bad time for time building in South Coast

"It has come to our attention that Andrew & Geraldine Dixon, the Directors
of South Coast Airways, have taken the company to the point of liquidation
so that they can rid themselves of the lawful shareholders who have funded
the company and dump, without compunction, the many passengers, who have
paid in good faith, for flights on G-DAKK this summer. They intend to set
up another airline later in the year in association with the Dutch Dakota
Association using a Dutch Dakota which they have asked the Civil Aviation
to re-register as British."

South Coast Airways Limited ceased trading at noon on 11th July 2002

[missionary]

I am planning a trip to South Africa for a month in Nov. I have been offered free accommodation at J'burg, George and Pretoria (and Potchefstroom, if you've heard of it!) and would like to get some hours in. Does anybody have any details of flying schools/websites that I could contact?

[digga]

Missionary,

You could check out FTC-Africa at Grand Central, Midrand. Did my PPL there at the beginning of the year - good selection of planes and quite reasonable prices,

Dig :)

[Cardinal Puff]

Hiya

Flying in Pretoria area pretty cheap. Defence Club around US$34-00 per hour for a C150 (though it costs around US$140-00 to join the club) and Blue Chip at Wonderboom around US$48-00 per hour for a C172.

Contact me on email [email protected] for more details.

[Clogmaster]

Hi
Check out www.aeropages.co.za. You will find links on there to most of the flying schools and clubs in SA.
Make sure you include the Garden route and the Wild Coast on your trip for some spectacular scenery...
Cheers
CM

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

Im planning on going to the Algoa Flight Centre next year to do my PPL. They are based in Port Elizabeth. Extremely good rates. It works out at about 28 pounds per hour on a C150 and 366 pounds for 10 hours.

www.algoafc.co.za

They are extremely friendly as well, especially Glynis the marketing manager

[Jaxx]

PWP, did you get kissed? because you got f***ed when they charged you 366 pounds for 10 hours, when you could have gotten them for 280 pounds as you stated! :D :D

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

As i have said in my last post here, i am planning on going to the Algoa Flight Centre next summer to do my PPL. I want to do the exams as soon as i get there, well at least a couple of them, and i was wondering what types of manuals they use etc...

Are they the Trevor Thom manuals which we have over here or are they different.

Thanks

[Grim Reaper 14]

Suggest your best course of action is to ask them, did mine at FTC who are JAR accredited, and they use the Trevor Thoms.

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

I obviously got the exchange rates wrong. No need to be cocky. lol

[missionary]

Guys/Dolls,
Thanks for your input - I will follow them all up.
Regards
Missionary:)

[Dakota Queen]

Hi Folks

I'm in a quandary! There are good schools in both of these places but theres nothing between them except the location (price, facilities, professionalism). I really want to have a good holiday while doing this so social life is a priority too.

I've heard good things about both but has anyone been to either Algoa in PE or Good Hope in CPT recently? Have searched the african page but to no avail.

From what I've read about 43 they sound a little too rigid and strict, dont need that, I want fun, flying, beer and ladies.

Cheers & all comments welcome

;) ;) ;)

[helipad]

Dakota Queen,

I haven't done any flying myself in South Africa and don't know exactly where the flying schools are but I can give some pointers about the two destinations.

Cape Town is great lots to do and visit when you need a break from flying, lots of stuff I enjoyed some of which I didn't think I would.
Robben Island where Mandela was a prisoner is really important to see, Kirstenbosch botanical gardens very cheap and the most spectacular gardens and plants you will ever see- thought I would hate it but loved it, Boulders beach where a colony of penguins live is fun, the Alfred dock is good place to have a meal and look at Table Mountain which they light up at night (I bit touristy though), Camps Bay is a good place to have a seafood meal and watch the Atlantic. You do have to carefull as I am sure you are aware of crime. At first you can misiterpret people 'harassing you' but most of the time it is just people who have nothing trying to make a bit of money. People help you park your car and then watch it all night if nessesary, you give them a small tip when you get back. It has stopped a lot of petty car crime.

P.E. I hate, ugle too busy, not as much to do and the place I stayed I heard gun shots at night!! I probably just had a bad time in P.E. because others like it but I don't think you could go wrong with Cape Town.

Things in South Africa are very well spaced out so if you can afford to hire a car maybe between a few of you for a bit that could be good.

Didn't do any clubing so can't help on that front, but drinking wise try Windhoek, or Windoek Lite if you are flying!!

Have a great time and enjoy the buying power of the pound 15-16 rand now - try not to mention this to the locals that everything is sooooo cheap as it isn't to them!!

Just out of interest do you know how much a single and a twin per hour as myself and a couple of friend are thinking of a flying holiday in S.A.

Cheers
Helipad

[Backontrack]

I have been through the same quandry recently. I decided to go with Algoa in PE as they were the most responsive to my requirements. I have done much research on the area and PE sounds like it's got a real good mix of things to do, good restaurants, cheap beer, great beeches etc etc. I too have to consider night life as I am travelling with my partner who will want other things than flying.

When I considered Good Hope, it struch me that the school was quite far out from Cape Town so it may not be as convenient on a daily basis? At the end of the day it's down to personal choice......

I am actually heading out to SA on the 30th of this month to hour build as I have completed my PPL in the UK. I'll post on my return to let you know of my experiences.

Good luck whichever way you choose to go.

[Dakota Queen]

Thanks guys, differing opinions on PE!!!

Helipad - Single C152 would cost around 500-600 rand an hour, a Beech twin around 1600 rand an hour.

I can mail you these rates, PM me your email address.

Cheerio ;)

[louvois]

I was also in the same quandery however after choosing Good hope Flying Club I feel that I made the right decision.
It takes about 15 mins. to get there from the city centre (without breaking any laws).
There are alot of experienced instructers there, and they are now OK with enough A/C.
P.E. is a dive and not particually safe whereas I haven't seen any problems in cape town in the 8 months I've been here.
Let me know if your coming

[charlie-india-mike]

Dakota Queen


Having lived and worked in both cities in the past. I would say Cape Town will provide you with the flying and the social side.

PE is a very nice place but doesn't have the attractions of CT. It used to be the 'motor capital of SA' - Luton/Detroit by the sea

BTW If you do go to PE, do your flying in the mornings as it's not known as the 'windy city' for nothing.

CIM

[Garth]

Cape Town hands down....not even a contest. The beauty, beaches, babes;)
Mountain flying, lotsa x-wind, beautiful part of the world
Good Luck!

[Dakota Queen]

Hi all

Thanks for the replies, it sounds like CPT is the place to be! Garth you really hit the mark, potential for birds rates nearly as high as getting the PPL, well almost :D :D :D

Louvois - Good Hope is the one I'm looking into aswell. I dont plan on doing this till next year. Can you give me any more info on the club?

Indeed, anyone who has beeen to Good hope comments are welcome....

Thanks ;) ;)

[VORTIME]

suppose it'll be a welcomed change from Weston!?!

[Chuffer Chadley]

Hello!

It's nearly time for me to do some pre-CPL hours building. I'm looking at going to South Africa in January, and have been put in contact with Good Hope Flying Club in Capetown www.ghfc.org.za.

My initial contact with them has been very good- up front with what everything's going to cost, reasonably priced and downright helpful. Anyone know about this bunch?

VMT for your thoughts.
Ciao!

[Dufwer]

Chuffer

Decided to reply as nobody else has. I haven't heard of this lot before but as I plan to do a similiar thing in SA later next year I wouldn't mind hearing how you get on.

D

[foghorn]

I did my hour building with them two years ago. A slick, well run club with a well-maintained fleet, and a good bunch of people to boot. You won't go far wrong.

E-mail me if you want to know anything else.

cheers!
foggy.

[Iceman5]

I am interested in doing my JAA flight training in South Africa with the Flight Training College of South Africa at Midrand.

Does anyone have any experiences of training in S.A, or indeed with FTC that they are prepared to share (good or bad)?

[AlanM]

I flew with Avex at Midrand back in April this year. They are a small outfit but recommended by a South African who learnt there.

The Flight Training College you mentioned looked a nice set up, with a smart newish building etc. Good fun taxxing out when 5500' up!

One thing I was impressed with was the fact that there is no LARS as such, just a common freq where people make blind calls of a/c type, level, position and direction. Sure aids your nav skills and location awareness!

The only problem with the cheap price at Avex etc, is really old aircraft. I flew in an old PA28-140 (possibly construction number 001!!) which felt a little underpowered.

Another option is Lanseria airport on the other side of Jo'burg - a big bizjet/charter centre (similar to Luton but more redeveloped)

Enjoy either way......

AM

[silverknapper]

Evening

Does anyone have any experiences of ppl and hour building in SA. In particular the flight training college of africa.

Cheers

[Flyboybrad]

Hey there,

Iv recently done tonnes of research on african flying schools, and the best one I found was...The European Flying school in Port Elizabeth. I am only 18, and seriously considering moving to Africa for a year or so to study to be a pilot. Im half way through my PPL in the UK and finding it a increasing finacial strain. Iv asked my flying instructor a few questions about training overseas and he seems optimistic. He believes that some schools are like "factorys" producing poorly trained pilots for stupidly little money. The thought of that has not really fazed me and im still looking at the European Flying school in Port Elizabeth.
On a more positive note I believe there are many positive sides to learning to fly in Africa. Some schools have excelent locations which make the flying even more enjoyable, and the exchange rate is rather cool too. The £ to the African Rand is currently about £1=14Rand, and that makes the training light on your wallet. The school stated above offers accomadation, food, and a working VISA once obtaining a Commercial licence. The aircraft are in reasonable condition and look well maintained. PPL- ATPL would normaly cost £50,000...Africa on the other hand PPL-ATPL around 25,000 Rand, do your maths and you can see the money saving bonus of african training. I hope this helps

Regards
Brad:)

[Dakota Queen]

Hi There

I have been looking extensively into SA aswell to do my PPL. I plan on going in October 2003 for 2-3 months - flying and travelling. I have info on several schools but have no heard about the European one in PE. Have got good recommendations though on Algoa and Progress in PE and from the Good Hope school in CPT. I recommend you go the the African Aviation forum. I did better there with my questions. PM me if you want to hear my stories!

Best of luck

DQ

[Andy_R]

Fly Boy

When quoting costs for ATPL in South Africa bear in mind that it is for their national ATPL and not for the JAR one. This will mean hefty conversion costs if you wish to be able to use your licence commercially in UK or Europe.
As far as I am aware their is not a JAR approved FTO in SA. If anyone wishes to correct me I would be happy to hear about it as having citizenship I would be more than happy to work there. However I would prefer to have the JAR ATPL for the long term.

[Jelly Doughnut]

I'm told that FTC has JAR approval, UK FTO number 265, haven't checked it though.
43 Air School in Port Alfred are also worth a mention - very good training and JAR-approval in the pipeline.
Cheers for now
JD

[Tonker Towns]

I instruct in the west country and we have a very switched on staff member who completed his ppl in South Africa but at a guess to convert,ie for a school to let him fly here he has spent nigh on £1000.
Their simply is not a way of getting good flight training on the cheap,i tried it and now have the bills to prove otherwise.
The other thing to consider is what any interview board might think,imagine i get a jet job 6-12 months before yourself earning 35k any saving thats been made is quickly swallowed up.
I've flown in Florida and that was a great experience,to be treated like a customer on arrival was,well refreshing so we have lots to learn here but the landscape,history and variety of airfields makes it one of the nicest,most interesting places to fly.And remember it's YOUR airspace over YOU house!

[psmd0311]

Rubbish!

You can fly a G registered aircraft using a South African PPL in UK airspace. You DO NOT need to convert it! I have rented planes from 2 different clubs using my South African PPL. All it took was a normal check ride. I have no intention to converting to a UK PPL as I can renew my licence with Irv Lee at Popham as well as do my medical in London. Flight schools in the UK will tell you that you wont save money going abroad because they want you to spend your money with them. They will also tell you that you wont know how to land in a crosswind, and that navigation is different. All rubbish as well. When I got back to the UK I did 2 hours with Irv Lee so he could explain the differences of UK airspace, and after that I was out on my own and had no problems. I got my PPL at Algoa flying club in P.E, over all I had an amazing 5 week holiday, got my licence for all just under 2500 quid. Including my flight over there. Email Algoa flying club if want reliable information. Don’t always believe what UK schools tell you, if I had of I would have never got my licence.

[Andy_R]

psmd0311

In total agreement, if purely wanting a ppl.

Silverknapper talks of hour building which gives me the impression he may want to go on and do commercial training at a later point, in which case at present I dont believe the case is as simple as with the ppl.

Maybe someone could confirm?? :confused:

[Irv]

T-T: Forgetting foreign licences for a second, I found a West Country club with their own special interpretation of JAR currency which they imposed on their JAR pilots. ( Funnily enough it worked financially in the clubs favour... :rolleyes: ) I don't challenge they have the right to impose whatever they want on their members, (who can take theirtrade elsewhere if they don't like it) but this was very definitely passed off as a legal requirement due to JAR rather than a local club policy - great idea for causing general confusion and arguments.

Back to foreign licences:
The easiest thing is to have an aircraft registered in the same country as your licence was issued, then things are 'perfect'. However for a SA licence and 'G' reg aircraft in the UK, if you want it from the (UK) horse's mouth, try CAA FAQ on using foreign ICAO Licences in the UK (http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/faq.asp?faqid=208)

For those who would fall asleep if they clicked on that link, basically, a fully valid S.A. PPL (including medical) is good without extra paperwork for renting for fun in UK registered aircraft in the UK FIRs, providing you obey your licence privileges and relevant Uk law. SA PPL with SA I/R will NOT let you go IFR in Controlled Airspace. SA CPL, ATPL give private privileges only (so no money earning in G reg unless you also have a UK/JAA professional licence).

If you have a SA PPL and decide to stay a fun flier in UK airspace, you are not forced to convert to a JAA PPL, but many do convert to be able to add things like UK IMC ratings or perhaps to fly in Europe. It is easier to convert after 100 hours than before, so many rent on a foreign PPL in the UK up to 100 hours, then convert. If you intend to start a JAA CPL flying course once you have the extra required hours, I don't think you need to convert to a JAA PPL at all - you can keep the SA PPL all the way until you get your JAA CPL issued (I believe).

I can quickly think of 3 main reasons why some rental clubs want you to convert, and I think number 1 is the main one - some genuinely don't know the rules.

1- Clubs have not actually asked the question recently. Our CAA (10 years ago) used to be a little bit deaf and somehow always 'mis-heard' the question. Question posed by either the club with a potential renter or the renter: "can a pilot fly in the Uk on a foreign PPL?" Answer: "To convert your licence to a UK licence, what you need to do is pay us £192, pass the following... etc etc"
This answer not only earned money for the CAA, but money for the clubs, so everyone was happy (funnily enough, including the PPL holder who just wanted to do whatever was necessary and had no idea he had been conned with an answer to a different question!).
I used to have fun briefing the foreign PPL holder before they phoned the CAA. They would then ask the question, listen politely to the standard misleading answer, then when that was finished, just say 'fascinating - now can you answer the question I asked you' and of course there would a short silence and finally the real answer came. Anyway, staff and attitudes have changed and now you get the true answer on the CAA FAQ page.

2- Occasionally you might find a club may have had a problem in the past with one or two new pilots trained in the USA and just decided to 'blanket' everyone. Purely their own commercial decision - they can have whatever rules they want on their aircraft. Loss on some rentals will be partially offset with extra training and conversion by others. From what I can gather though the problem can often be traced to the attitude of the pilot rather than the training of the pilot.

3- Sometimes long time renters with foreign PPLs have been found after an incident not to be fully legal, (eg: some foriegn licences are type rated, some are not, some last 2 years, some last one, etc etc) and the school cannot keep up with all the requirements of different foreign authorities so it decides not to try.

[EH8]

Brad,

Could you post the web site address for European, I can't seem to find it.


Cheers :)

[owen]

Hi,
I am looking into getting my ppl in South Africa, just wondering if anyone has anyone gotten their ppl there and if so could they recommend a flight school.
Thank You.

[Gareth Jones]

I did my PPL at Phoebus Apollo, Johannesburg. It cost me £2,350 and included accomodation, medical, landing fees etc etc. Excellent airport and instructors. I'd totally recommend it.

[Clogmaster]

43 Air School in Port Alfred is one of the best schools in SA.

Excellent facilities and a great training environment. Not many schools that offer the chance of whale-watching during your cross-countries along the coast!!

Also have a look at Progress in PE, and FTC in Johannesburg, all schools with a good reputation.

Good luck!
CM

[Irv]

There are some good recommendations for schools by recent pupils in the African section of PPRUNE - have a look down this thread:

PPRUNE SA PPL topic (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75927)

[Chaffers]

Add a month worth of cricket coaching and some time for drinking / carousing etc and you have the perfect holiday :).

[Dakota Queen]

Check out Irv's link - you'll see my name there alot!

Contact me if you want more info - I have stacks of info on this subject...........

DQ

[BillClark]

www.stelfly.co.za
Stellenbosch Aero Club (FASH) was great! Lovely people, lovely part of the world.
Planes a bit rickety but hell, it's Africa.
Chap there called Mark Storey is the oldest member of the club, and is a very kind chap who should sort you out!
Cheers.

[Glynis]

For info - there is no such flight school in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.

[missionary]

I went out to J'burg - Midrand, with Flight Training College, SA for a 2 week session. The good thing is that they have JAA registered pilots and the training counts towards your UK licence, even if you do not complete it in SA.
The major downer is that I had to pay 1500GBP up front, only spent 700 GBP and three months later I have still not got my 800 quid back = WATCH OUT FOR THAT WHEREVER YOU GO!

[NickGreen]

Bit late to the forum again but I concur with psmd earlier - I too had grief from UK schools who were convinced I was going to be 1) a liability with an SA PPL, 2) would need to spend at least 4 hours to brush up skills, 3) would have to convert the licence to JAR as soon as I returned, 4) would not be considered for solo in the UK until I had 1-3 sorted out.
Fortunately I was lucky to speak to someone in the know and did my SA PPL at the Algoa Flying Club. On my return to the UK I did a single checkride and now fly a rented G reg a/c out of Popham. With 8 hours to go until I reach the ton I have absolutely no compunction to convert to JAR as the privilages I have on the SA PPL (for pleasure) are seemingly equal to those I would have otherwise (at less expense).
All I need now is a ZS reg a/c based at Popham!
A potentially handy site is being built for UK based SA PPL's etc at: www.uksa.flyer.co.uk

[Flying Boat]

I did a small amount of flying in Midrand (Grand Central) at the only JAR approved school in RSA, FTC.

My advice is not to attempt a JAR licence with them as the term 'organised chaos' springs to mind when I read FTC.

Most of the instructors are great but the management of time, fleet & account differences are to be avoided at all costs. Plus we students, customers, are not respected by the controlling parties.

If you want to do an SA PPL/CPL then go to any of the other good schools in RSA, for example, Central Flying Academy, downstairs at Grand Central.

Hope this helps.

[Flying Boat]

Flying in RSA is good experience, but for god's sake avoid FTC at Grand Central Airport.

They are morally corrupt and cannot manage their fleet.

70+% of previous 'customers' are greatly dissatisfied and a PPL seems to average 6+ weeks.

Good Luck in your endeavours.

FB

[Irv]

Chaffers:
Am I right in thinking the Cricket World Cup is down there in places like P.E. sometime soon? Just think, a fellah could take his lady there on a vacation of a lifetime and learn to fly whilst his lady watches the ..... no, stand-by, I'll rethink that and get back to you.
:D :D :D

[EchoKiloEcho]

Here's a list of flying school websites in South Africa:

CAA
http://www.caa.co.za

Virginia Flight School, Virginia Airport, Durban
http://www.vfs.co.za

Avex Air Flying Training, Grand Central, Johannesburg
http://www.avexair.com

43 Airschool, Port Alfred
http://www.43airschool.com

Good Hope Flying Club, International Airport, Capetown
http://www.ghfc.org.za

Flight Training College, George Airport, George
http://www.flighttraining.co.za

Flight Training College, Grand Central, Johannesburg
http://www.ftc-sa.com

The Algoa Flight Centre, P.E. Airport, Port Elizabeth
http://www.algoafc.co.za

Lanseria Flight Centre, Lanseria Airport, Johannesburg
http://www.lfc.co.za

Cape Aero Club, Capetown Capetown
http://www.capeaeroclub.co.za

Cape Flying Services, George Airport, George
http://www.flightschool.co.za

Progress Flight Academy, Port Elizabeth
http://www.flightacademy.co.za

Phoebus Apollo, Rand Airport, Johannesburg
http://www.phoebusapollo.co.za

Blue Chip Aviation, Wonderboom Airport, Pretoria
http://www.bluechip-avia.co.za

Pretoria Flying School, Wonderboom Airport, Pretoria
http://www.africansky.co.za

Airline Pilot Training Centre, Port Elizabeth
http://www.aptrac.com

Border Aviation Club
http://www.electrodynamics.co.za/aviation/bac/default.htm

Aeroclub of South Africa, Grand Central Airport, Johannesburg
http://www.aeroclub.org.za

Central Flying Academy
www.flyingacademy.co.za

Enjoy,

EchoKiloEcho :)

[camelsnail]

I did my radio course there--as I have a South African Microlights Pilots licence. The people I met there seemed on the ball--I am thinking of possibly continuing my training there, so I have not been put off!

[Island Hopper]

Echo,

Thanks for that list. Very useful.
Do you have any experience or comments on any of those schools?

Also, does anyone know what is involved in getting a SA CPL/IR in terms of the theory?

Are there 14 subjects like in the JAA system?
And if you have passed all the JAA theory, can you get credits against the SA theory?

IH

[texan flyer]

Have you thought of Argentina for hour building ?
I think this site´s been recommended already.
www.patagonianskies.com.ar

Cheers.

[EchoKiloEcho]

Island Hopper

I started my PPL at Lanseria Flight Centre, Lanseria Airport, in Johannesburg. Nice airport & environment, but the school itself is not the best.

I continued my PPL training at 43airschool in Port Alfred. What a great flying school! I can recomend it to anyone. I would love to go into more detail, but see my post re: 43Airschool. :rolleyes: (The forum name is: 'Progress Flight Academy or 43 Flight School'


I've been to most of those schools as well but can only comment on what i've seen:

Virginia Flight School, Virginia Airport, near Durban is a realy beautiful location 20 yards from the beach.

Flight Training College, George Airport in George is a nice large airport, good facilities, 20 mins drive from the beach, but a little bit isolated.

Good Hope Flying Club, Capetown International Airport, large airport, good training facilities, 10 mins flight from table mountain.

The Algoa Flight Centre, Port Elizabeth Airport, good flying club, very friendly. PE airport - very friendly & helpful control tower, just a bit windy, but good for training. (My first solo x-country landing was at PE airport with 15 kt crosswind gusting 25 kts with a South Afircan Airways 737 in front of me!!!!)

Pretoria Flying School & Blue Chip Aviation, Wonderboom Airport, Pretoria. Large runway. Good training facilities, and good fleet of aircraft (I think about 11 C172s) Almost allways good flying weather. Very hot & high conditions. I believe its 4,500ft above sea level! Nice scenery with lots of game reserves near by!

:cool: EKE :cool:

If you want more info on any flying schools / airports or destinations, i've got some books and can post more details and info here if you want!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:) :) Chuffer Chadley, you said you were going to Capetown in January 2003. Did you go in the end? How was it? Tel us your experince.:) :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ahw01]

What are the benefits of N- registration compared to ZS-Registration?

What would have to be done to reregister a ZS- registered aircraft to be N- registered, and operated in SA?

I might buy a new Aircraft, and have it N- registered - would there be any problems in flying it in SA?

I'm imagining that if a ZS- registered aircraft was reregistered, it might have to be awarded a new AC from the FAA and approved, but after that as long as it is maintained to FAA standards it should be ok.

One advantage is not having to renew the AC (=CofA) but I can't remember if SA is similar to the UK on that

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Regards

Alex Walker

[Irishwingz]

Hey Folks

Is anybody thinking of going to SA in the Autumn for PPL?

I'm planning on going there in October.

;)

[Taildragger55]

That's right, rub it in, the rest of us looking out the windows at the incessant rain, freezing our b@ttocks off, while you are cruising over the wildlife in the sun at about 50p an hour.

Grrr.

[Andy_R]

Which school were you thinking of doing your training with?

[Irishwingz]

Algoa Flight School in PE - need more info just send me a PM.

Trying to see if there will be drinking buddies at the same place!!

[Irv]

There is a support site for you afterwards: UKSA site (http://www.uksa.flyer.co.uk)
It's for anyone with SA qualifications in the UK or Ireland

[aoife]

Anyone know or heard anything good or bad about Algoa Flight centre, Port Elizabeth, South Africa?

I'm planning on going there in two weeks to do the PPL. Haven't paid for anything yet though.

'Preciate your thoughts...

[psmd0311]

I did my PPL with algoa in June 2002. I had a great time and would strongly recommend them. The school is a non-profit club so the flying is very cheap. Accommodation, food and drink in P.E is also very cheap.

It took 5 weeks for me to get my PPL and do some training in the different planes available. I could have done it quicker, but I wasn’t in a rush. So if you are on a tighter schedule I’m sure you can do it quicker

When I came back to the UK I had no problems. I did a few hours flying with Irv Lee at Popham and then i passed a check ride at my local club. Irv is qualified to renew your S.A. licence and is familiar with the differences in flying in South Africa and the UK.

You can go to his web site and it may explain questions you might have about learning to fly in South Africa.

www.higherplane.flyer.co.uk.

You can also go to this web site, some of the people trained at algoa, and I’m sure they wouldn’t mind if you emailed and asked questions

www.uksa.flyer.co.uk

If you have any questions about the club or P.E you can email me at [email protected]

Pete

[Irishwingz]

Hi Aoife

check your PM ;)

[Irv]

I'm a member there having both rented and trained - did my SA commercial nav, night and day gfts, and my full SA instructor test there. Great place - accommodation good, staff, training, social side all excellent. You can pay as you go, and it really feels like a mutual too. (No, I don't get commission!).
ps: You'll need a tie, but not for what you think.

[Irv]

nearly forgot - the latest "Esquire" (April 2003) has an article and photos looking specifically at learning to fly at Algoa. (pages 123 - 128 t ospeed things up for any WHS shelf-browsers - don't look quite as high as usual do, it should be about middle height) :)

[bluetinge]

Do any other gonnabe's have the contact details of the flights schools in cape town in South Africa. I read in esquire magazine that you can complete 45hrs and gain your PPL CAA in one month of hard slog.
Any one remember or know the contact?

Bluetinge

[silverknapper]

Try a search on both this forum and the african forum, lots to read there.

[Irishwingz]

www.algoa.co.za

I'm hopefully going there in October - do a search on this name in african or here and you'll get lots of info

PM if you wish for anything else though:ok:

[crt01]

I did mine there last year and got it in 46hrs (4 weeks)

I will be going back again very soon too for some more fun !

[chris.debeer]

Just a quick note on the weather in Cape Town. When you guys have lovely summer weather in Europe, Cape Town has real sh1tty weather. It's cold and wet. The Cape is the only part of the country that has winter rainfall, so not the ideal place for training. By all means come over in YOUR winter. Then you cant beat the place when it comes to good weather. :ok:

Another school worth looking at:

http://www.flightacademy.co.za

Regards,

Chris
:8

[NickGreen]

I went there in 2001 and had an absolutely fab time. Not only did I come back with a PPL the life experience was something I will never forget. The people there are so friendly the place is superb and the weather was excellent throughout. Port Elizabeth is coastal but tends to get a sanitised version of what Cape Town has several days later.

The magazine article sums them up very well - the mix of professionalism and recreational fun puts them at the top of my list for further holiday visits. Indeed I've been back twice already. Kenneth was my instructor too and I know the situation well - pre-spin nerves and all. Nothing's too much trouble for them and Glynis, the flight administrator, effortlessly sorts out everything.

There's a sort of South African support group for UK based SA PPL's which is very helpful for anyone looking at it as an option - try: http://www.uksa.flyer.co.uk

[aerfungus]

I have been looking into Algoa Flying Club for quite a while now and so far I have only heard and read good things about them!
I am hoping they are all true as I leave for the fair shores of Port Elizabeth this week. I can't wait

Aerfungus

[sss]

dont forget to let people know how your getting on

[cathyroos]

I did my PPL at Progress Flight Academy just outside Port Elizabeth a couple of years ago. I grew up in PE and know the area well. It's a very beautiful area and none of the hassles of the cities. Algoa is more a flying club than a professional flying school and is at the regional airport, so you pay for taxiing and waiting for slots etc. Progress is out of town and right on the rim of the General Flying Area where all training pilots practice general handling, stalls, spins etc. It has a grass strip and an excellent training record. Most students there are doing professional courses and the instructors are excellent. I found I was very well prepared for flying here when I returned. Accommodation is available on site, but you would probably want a car to get in and out of town - public transport in SA is questionable to non-existant!

Contact Steph or Mandy at [email protected] and mention me!

[Charlie172]

"Algoa is more a flying club than a professional flying school and is at the regional airport, so you pay for taxiing and waiting for slots etc. "

- It is very true that Algoa has a great club atmosphere but whilst I was there there were also lots of CPL students and of course Progress Flight Academy were regular visitors because CPLs need Tarmac, ILS, ATC etc, etc. If you fancy some uncontrolled grass, Progress is just down the road ! - Therfore, Aloga really does give you the best of both worlds !

[Glynis]

Re a posting above, the web address for Algoa is www.algoafc.co.za or [email protected]

[Irv]

.so you pay for taxiing and waiting for slots etc.

I 'rate' SA training in general but what doesn't often get a mention is difference in attitudes between SA and UK from the Airports Authority when it comes to GA. I certainly don't remember any waiting for anything at P.E. International and was flying in and out of there there for quite a few days.
Attitudes at larger 'commercial' airfields are different over there anyway compared to the UK - the airports authority (ASCA) in SA seems very much pro G.A. in practice - so much so that I went on a GA Nav competition where the Airports Authority was the sponsor, and we got MAJOR subsidy towards our fuel use in that event!
Chatting with the airports mamagement over end of competitiion drinks, it was so refreshing to find the "we need GA" attitude in their thoughts- Can you imagine BAA letting us have a UK provincial Class D airport for a 3 day event and subsidising fuel for synidcate and rental airciraft for that time, and making sure everyone - commecial and GA were happy rather than prioritise one over the other?
As you mention costs, the club you happen to mention, Algoa, is a mutual, so very hard to beat on value anyway as no-one is taking profits out. The only annoying thing is the occasional e-mail in the Uk winter to tell me of yet another evening BBQ or club drinks evening in the bar 'this week' - just what I need to read in a UK winter!

[NickGreen]

Talking of BBQ's (or Braii as they call them) it reminds me of when I was there doing my PPL, Algoa were hosting the Richie Rally (I think it was) and several teams came over from Progress to compete. I had just done my first few hours of training so could not pilot, but ended up being a marshal on the first checkpoint. I was meant to log the aircraft as they came over and note their times. Well, there were something like 15 or 20 teams, Progress had about 4 or 5. Only one team from Progress made it close to our checkpoint but was too far away to log properly, they were even going in the wrong direction. The others just never showed. The BBQ afterwards was awash with stories from the teams. The Progress contingent were suitably embarassed by their performance.

Fortunately when my turn came to compete in a Rally I had a rather accomplished navigator and spotter. I just had to work out how to do hot and high spot landings with a max'd out aircraft...

[Vortex Thing]

Went out to SA with A JAR-PPL and 160hrs. Sat the SA CAA CPL exmas and came back with a SA CPL Multi/IR in 10 weeks.

Had a lovely time saw loads of Africa. Would recommend it to anyone.

I trained with Central Flying Academy and Lanseria Flight Centre.
In Gauteng Province (tup north by Jo'Burg/Pretoria) and found that the proximity to the SA CAA meant that I could get problems dealt with easily and in person.

Both schools were excellent and would bend over bacwards to help. They both catered for the needs of foreign PPL holders and took into account your different experience from European flying.

I did however discover that there was one school that you did not want to go near with a barge pole and that was FTC of Africa. They are true dodgy rip off mechants. Thier web site offers pretty much everything that they do not have, they are slowly going broke and cannot pay their bills.

I knew of many people having to pay for thier own fuel because the airport would not give them any more credit because they were with FTC. Instructors and aricraft overbooked every day so that things like their advertised 3 day night rating take weeks.

The lovely instructors suffer from administration so poor that they truly could not run a piss up in a brewery. Such a shame that the potential of the surrounds their was wasted on money grabbing, liars and cheats.

So if you want a good experience go CFA or LFC if you want to live with rats and spend half a year getting your PPL whilst running the risk of living next to a township full of drugs, guns and HIV knwoing that the electric fence doesnt work and the security guard lets anyone in then go to FTC. Oh assuming you live through the experience as the aircraft are so poorly maintained that most instuctors won't fly at night in them:)

Any redirect please mail me. The evidence speaks for itself.

[FlyingForFun]

Vortex,

I have heard lots of bad things about FTC. But I think your comment that "people (have) to pay for thier own fuel because the airport would not give them any more credit because they were with FTC" is a bit strange. Any time that I've rented an aircraft, no matter how reputable the school is, if I've needed to refuel away from my home base I've paid for the fuel, then been paid back when I returned the aircraft and presented a receipt. :confused:

Don't want to detract too much from the general point that although a few people have been to FTC and been happy, they seem to be the minority.

FFF
--------------

[Tiger Bob]

Just a few points:

Runway 10/28 has been re-opened at the Port Elizabeth Airport. It is a shorter greas runway and adds a new dimension to the training

Delays and waiting are the exception and not the rule

All Algoa aircraft have credit cards that are accepted at all airfields in South Africa (except Springs where they accept cash only) so there is no need to dip into your pocket

[NorthSouth]

If any of you are thinking of training at Cape Town, beware interminable air traffic delays. Last time I flew there (last month) I spent 45 minutes on the ground before getting airborne. ATC just aren't geared up for tactical thinking in the way you'd expect from most UK ATC. I can't think of any way you'd get a PPL in 45 hours flying out of Cape Town - plus there are lots of extras on the cost such as approach fees.

Much better to go to a proper GA airfield - there are plenty in SA and if you definitely want to train in the Western Cape you couldn't do much better than Stellenbosch: try http://www.stelfy.co.za

[Foggles]

Just a point about stellenbosch - I'm a member there ,and would
say a nicer bunch of guys and gals you'd be hard pressed to
meet -a fabulous setting with the mountains behind the airfield ,however I've found that booking aircraft and instructors there is quite difficult as they are well utilised by club members .I would suggest that you call Marc Storey there and explain what you want so that the aircraft/instructor is available for you . I found on several occasions that details were cancelled with short notice as the instructor had something else he wanted to do .
so ensure that they know you are travelling a long way to give them your custom .... It is more of a club than a school and it seems to me there is a fair amount of inclub politics which spoils it just a little . BUT a super place ,right in the winelands with plenty of B & B's ranging from bearable at £10 a night to the sublime @
£60 a night . Do try Trudie & Mike @ Wedgeview on the Bonnimile
it well worth the £40/night for a 'full wedgie 'breakfast .
www.wedgeview.co.za.
My advice -don't wast your time at Capetown -try it once for the buzz of keeping a 747 waiting for you on short finals otherwise save your money . I'm going to try Algoa next time !!

Above all else whatever you do -GO .

They say that you can take the pilot out of africa , but you'll never be able to take africa out of the pilot . I'm not sure who said this
but its quite true .
You'll experience a lot more there - You'll learn to actually like spinning , and with PFL 's practiced actually down to the deck !

On one climb out from Stell 'just come right a bit - around that flock of pelicans''

Nightlife in Cptn is great -go to the Cuban bar above the
news cafe in Green point !!....But don't try and fly the next day !!


For goodness sake someone stop me .................

Best of Luck

[bluetinge]

CHeers for the info,

I am definately getting in contact with the various schools, the best time to go seems to be our winter. Is there any thing else that A budding pilot needs to know about the regulatory authoritites in SA

[VirginStudent]

I'm at Algoa at the moment @ 14hours and due to go solo a day now. Can't say enough good thing about the school and it's managment. the instructors are very good and the other students are a great bunch. As for the fly .. well blue sky's and loads of wind I thought the rudder pedels were to rest your feet on until I came here... they is also a grass air strip you get sent to to increase your confidance and learn to fly 'old style ' it's a get place until your lined up on final only to find locals, dogs, cows and all sort just walking across the runway ....

then you have the challange of taxing out behind a 737 and more over landing while a 737 in at the holding point with it's passangers waving at you alway makes me bounce a few times.

All in all, this is the best place to train, every day student from other nearby clubs call in to defect can't say more that that ....

[Carl Q]

From 7 March to 16 April 2003, I studied at PE's Algoa Flying school where I was awarded my PPL. The majority of the foreign students were Brits, but there were also Dutch and Swiss and initially we all had to get used to the South African dialect from the Tower! The intensity of the steep learning curve has to be appreciated, but if you are willing to 'work hard', then PE is also the place to 'play hard'. Algoa is fortunate to have the personalities to complement its teaching package. From Glynis, the administration expert and her ever smiling support assistant Denise, to Guy, Gerard, Tracey, Kenneth and Dave, the flying instructors, the school has a plethora of expertise. Therefore, I was disappointed to read that there seems to be some confusion, by those who have not been there, about the professionalism of the 'Flying Club'.

"Algoa is more a flying club than a professional flying school and is at the regional airport, so you pay for taxiing and waiting for slots etc. Progress is out of town....."

I do agree however that Progress is more out of town, which is a pity as the experience of flying out of the International Airport behind normal day-to-day air traffic is second-to-none, especially with the added opportunity to meet the staff from the Tower (It's good to put a face to the the voice).
For anyone who needs convincing that Algoa is worth trying then I can only state that the professionalism was only beaten by the good humour - it worked for me. As a serving memeber of the Royal Air Force I feel that I am in a position to guage that Algoa is a professional flying school which can also provide the flexibilities of a flying club.

The moral of this story. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it!

[BEagle]

One cautionary note - if you intend flyingin the UK when you return from Seth Efrika, either train for a JAR-FCL PPL(A) at a school which MUST be approved for the training - or else train for a SA PPL. When you return to the UK you may fly day VFR UK on your SA licence so long as it's current and valid. Establish how you will maintain its validity....

2 cases spring to mind. One pilot had a lapsed SA PPL and wanted to know how to use it to obtain a JAR-FCL PPL - he wasn't happy to learn that he needed to fly 35 hours (25 dual and 10 supervised solo), sit all the exams and do the JAR-FCL PPL(A) Skill Test. Neither was someone else who went to SA to do a PPL at a non-JAR school but didn't quite finish - he also needed to do 35 hours back in the UK.....

There are obvious plus points regarding training in SA, but beware of the traps for players when you get back to the UK....

[Irv]

One pilot had a lapsed SA PPL and wanted to know how to use it to obtain a JAR-FCL PPL - he wasn't happy to learn that he needed to fly 35 hours (25 dual and 10 supervised solo), sit all the exams and do the JAR-FCL PPL(A) Skill Test.

Or alternatively, rather than do 35 hours flying, he/she could renew the SA PPL and either continue to use it as such or (only if he/she wants to) convert to JAA using the usual criteria (ground exams, skills test, etc).

The renewal process could be back in SA if they are regular travellers down there, but it can also be completed in the UK without travelling a quarter of the way round the globe - providing the 'elapsed' period wasn't more than 2 years (after which it has to be back in SA). Admittedly the paperwork to renew takes about a month elapsed due to the 'speed' of the mail there but if the licence is not allowed to lapse, but the renewal is done a month before expiry, it all flows smoothly.

There is a community of SA PPLs in the UK and they are about to have a fly-in to RAF Cosford on June 6th to meet up to discuss experiences - some are new PPLs, some have been flying here for ages on their SA privileges, some have converted to get IMCs etc. The known list of UK based AMEs doing SA PPL medicals is on the community webiste along with the fly-in details. UK-SA Flyer Community (http://www.uksa.flyer.co.uk)

[Vortex Thing]

FFF,

Sorry to take so long to reply to your comment. I didn't make myself clear.

I was talking about a few occcasions when one had to pay for fuel to get the aircraft to go on a 1hour instructional sortie round trip from Grand Central returning to Grand Central where FTC are actually based.

Obviously I expect to pay for fuel away from base. This however was actually at their base during the middle of the week, during working hours and nowhere near a bank holiday.

Absolutely flabbergasted. Really have never seen anything like it.

:uhoh:

[BEagle]

Irv - yes, we did suggest that getting his SA PPL renewed was his best option and that he should check with the SA aviation authorities to establish the requirements for his particular case.

Same for the guy who didn't finish his SA PPL. Best option was to go back and finish it, then use it in the UK and convert if he wanted to at a later date.

[wannado]

Where in SA did you train?

I posted the following question on "wannabees" on 12 July but have only had one real response so thought I would try here.

"Over some time I have seen a number of aspirant pilots asking for advice on where to go to train in SA. None of those who said they were going there seem to report back on how their course went, we only hear the bad cases. Anyone prepared to recommend the school they chose?"

[Jelly Doughnut]

Hi Wannadoo, have you considered 43 Air School in Port Alfred?

A highly professional setup which has an excellent reputation in the industry. The PPL course is structured and very enjoyable, and the training environment fantastic. Not many places where you get to spot whales and dolphins during your cross-country flights along the coast!

Good luck and enjoy
JD

[GGG]

Did mine at Blue Chip Aviation in Pretoria, out of Wonderboom airport. Good area to learn as you close to all the big airports and get to learn and fly in the special rules areas. But the airport itself is quiet enough so that you dont waste to much time at the holding point. Had no problems with the school all were very professional and friendly. Another school in the area is a fairly new Central Flying Academy at Grand Central airport, they seem to be a very competent setup, becoming very popular. These and alot of other schools are all inland. 43 air school at the coast is also a very professional setup. A few good schools Ive heard of in Port Elizabeth which is near 43, also on the coast. And of course a few in the beautiful city of Cape town.;)

[flutter by]

Busy with my PPL at Delta200 in Cape Town, very nice instructors and friendly staff and professional, can provide you with all your needs and ratings, lots of planes to do conversions and a C150 for IF training:cool: . Very affordable price range, no bull.... and extra hidden costs. Great coast cross countries and ofcourse the lovely city of Ape Town with international airport and a lekka local unmanned airstrip to practice at, a close general aviation area, Stellenbosch is also closeby for quick flips.:ok:
The other airschools in Cape Town is Cape Aero Club, Good Hope Flying Club and then Stellenbosch flying club just on the outside of Cape Town. :ok:

[Hot Shots]

The best place to do your flight training is at 43 Air School. They are a highly professional school. The area you fly in is also very beautiful. Their courses are very well structured and the training is the best! If you are considering to maybe do your CPL at a later date, then you can not go to any other place.

Did my CPL there and I had the best time of my life. Yu are out of the big rush of things, but not to far from big cities. The Genral Flying areas are right arround the airfield. There is no need to do a long flight to get to the training areas. In most of the schools in Johannesburg you have to fly to the nearest training area that will take you about 10 - 15 min of flying. So in an hours flight, you will only have 30 min of actual flight training where at 43 in an hour you will have at least 50 min of actual training. For more information on 43 airschool: http://www.43airschool.com . Really hope you choose the best:ok:

[Irv]

Wannado: If 'home' is UK or Eire based, there is a 'support' group for when you return with your licence, (we just had an excellent fly-in to RAF Cosford). See UKSA Flyer Community (http://www.uksa.flyer.co.uk) - the participants often say where they learned in SA so you can ask the ex-students. Also there's info like SA medicals in the UK, UK law for SA PPLs, and there will be some more news fairly soon on flying to France., I hope.

[wannado]

Thank you for the replies so far. I have looked into a few places but have not yet made up my mind. 43 looks good but is not quite what I am looking for, has a waiting list and is a bit too expensive for me.

I am considering Algoa Flight Centre in Port Elizabeth. Does anyone have first hand information?

[sturg3]

If you are thinking about going to Algoa Flying Club, you are already on the right track. I cannot recommend them enough.

I did my PPL there in fantastic Port Elizabeth in Apri this year.
Taxing out behind a 737 is just great.
The school is professional but retains a casual atmoshere, which I found suits the learning cycle very well, not stressed out.

Yeah, other schools do offer whale watching etc, who cares? You want to learn to fly, and with the best, go to Algoa my man, you will be so pleased you did.
(The birds are great too.)

[George Tower]

Hi there

Ok I'm biased towards SA as I did my PPL here. The majority of my flying has been in Cape Town and at George. I have no concerns at all. At the major schools/flying clubs you will be treated fairly and have a great time learning to fly to a high standard.

Port Elizabeth seems to be a very popular destination and having flown there several times I can see why - it's just the right mix for a student in so far as it's not rediculously busy but at the same time there's enough traffic for you to need to keep your wits about you. I personally love flying out of Cape Town but I suppose that as student pilot you don't want your hard earned cash being eaten up sat on the ground for the best part of half an hour.

My only advice is don't part with any cash up front and beware of people selling you packages in the UK. You can search this forum and find out the pitfalls that can occur. Allow yourself about 6 weeks may be more for your PPL. How quickly you finsih obvioulsy depends on a variety of factors but the weather although generally good in SA can of course be frustrating - if you do finish earlier then use the time to explore the cape by air, believe me it's something you wont regret.

Good luck!

[sanjo69]

I agree fully with George Tower comments.

I recently attempted to do the same in April this year and was bitterly dissapointed and wasted about £5000.00. Be very careful in accepting packages from UK based agents like Naunton Pugh in Cambridge for flying schools in SA, see my thread of Cape Flying Services and still more very interesting comments to be posted soon!

Uk Caa only recognized JAA flying school in South Africa is Flight Training College based in Johannesburg it is apparently very proffessional and as I understand it the SA PPL does have some problems on the UK return of the student, particularly, if you do not complete the ppl in SA and return with a student ppl, the medical needs to be re taken in the UK as most medicals carried out in SA are not JAA approved allbeit Class 2.

My strony advice would be to go to a SA flying school for hour building to solo status and gain the experience return to the UK join a flying school rewrite all the 6 exams (£20 each) complete the JAA medical at about £120 and finish the leasons and course with about 12- 15 hours at £100 each.

This may sound strange, but think about it as it does make some sense. You will have a full JAA licence and have completed it a lot sooner than if you had done fully within UK as your flying hours is transferrable upon your return. Don't under any circumstances pay up front, only, pay as you fly, you will enjoy the good exchange rate at about between R500 - R 700 per hour dual and solo, that around £45- £50 per hour. Don't expect extensive ground school training , expect to teach yourself as this ground school in all probability will be non existent

South Africa is a great country for all sorts of activities including aviation but I suspect there are companies not fully up to date with good customer relations policies ! Discuss, negotiate and confirm every detail with them prior to starting your training.

If you need further advice please email me, remember Ive been there and fell into the pitfalls !

Good Luck

Sandy:ok:

[Flying Boat]

Sanjo69

I agree SA is great but look at the threads for FTC (Africa & Wannabes), they are similar to what you experienced. UK CAA accreditation means nothing when it comes to customer service.

Wannado

Do a search there is hours of reading about all SA schools.

Good Luck in your training.

FB

[Cardinal Puff]

...regarding distances to GFs. The GF at Wonderboom is around two minutes flying time from the circuit so no probs there. Wonderboom at Pretoria is a quiet field where you'll get no untoward delays and as they're controlled you'll get good radio experience as well.

Schools here are Pretoria Flying School, Blue Chip and Rapid Air.

Whatever your choice, hope you enjoy your time in SA and y'all come see us again, hear......

[MVE]

Hi,
I went to Progress Flight Academy (Port Elizabeth) in April last year,
I did 150 hours a night rating, C150, warrior and Rockwell commander conversions and went on a week long trip to Botswana and back.

The airfield is next to PE airport (actually within their controlled airspace) and a stones throw away from the local GF area. The instructors were first class and the whole setup very relaxed and freindly and providing your flexible you'll have a great time!

There's a great social life, as well as training atmosphere and you get equal opportunities to work hard and play hard!

I spent just under 4 months, 150 hours, 3 type ratings, Night rating, full room and board, maid service, 10 day safari holiday and all for less than 7000 pounds! In fact their complex single was so cheap I ended up doing most of my hours on that! (50 pounds an hour)

They do a JAA Module 1 course aimed purely at guys looking to do the PPL and hour building before starting the ATPL groundschool in the UK.

You don't have to spend the extra to go to 43 and we had two guys flying with us that had tried 43 and didn't like it! They complained about the lack of attention given to non sponsored pilots. ( A little like the complaints about Oxford) However I never flew into 43, just over it!

I flew into FTC in Joburg and was not at all impressed by them but perhaps they weren't impressed by my Progress uniform?!?

I would take with a big pinch of salt anything claimed about JAA aproved training in SA! and look very closely at the fine print!

Finally I think wherever you go you will have a great time, but remember DONT PAY UPFRONT...remember the old saying a fool/student pilot and his money are easily parted.

Pay in stages with perhaps a small amount in advance to show good faith (like 2/3 hours more) and any school that won't except those terms are not worth trusting!

Best of luck and feel free to email if you want to ask anything,
regards Rodders.

[George Tower]

Hi Guys

If you want to fly in the UK on a SA PPL it is possible without very much hassle provided your SA PPL is current and same goes for your medical as well.

Most schools/clubs will usually want to give you a check ride before signing you out solo. I know as I have done it.

There is a cracking site already plugged but for the avoidance of doubt its: www.uksa.flyer.co.uk It certainly answers most questions on this subject

Having spent ages researching the subject I would only convert to a JAA PPL if you intended to start adding ratings to your licence in the UK i.e. Night Qualification & IMC Rating which is something they don't have in SA.

If your ultimate aim is a JAR CPL/IR (Frozen ATPL) and you're doing the modular route then all you need is an ICAO PPL to start your CPL/ATPL course.

Finally on all these threads someone will have had a bad experience with a particular school and yet there will be others that had a great time. Success isn't just about the school but about you.

[Mike Cross]

I shall be visiting Cape Town for a few days in September. Anyone have any aviating recommendations (excluding Thunder City)?

Mike

[drauk]

I flew from Stellenbosch Flying Club (http://www.stelfly.co.za/). I had to take an instructor because I'd not yet finished my PPL when I was there. There was nothing particularly special about the club, though they were very friendly, the instructor was good and the plane was fine. But what a place to fly! We flew over downtown Cape Town, did a transit over the international airport, over the harbour, over some islands, round Cape Point and along the beach at about 50'. Including the instructor it was about 50 pounds/hour. The landing fee was about 50p.

[Foggles]

Hi Mike
Re Capetown -
There are a couple of clubs in Capetown itself right on the airport
the problem there is that you have to wait for the heavy metal
to take off/land and 40 mins is not unusual !
I've flowm (also as a student ) at Stellenbosch , I agree there is nothing special about the club -its not a school as such ! The setting is fantastic ,so go and have alook anyway , if you want a real nice b & b PM me and I'll give you details .

However I was recently in SA and on recomendation I extended my trip a few days and jumped on a plane to Port Elizabeth
and went to Algoa Flight Centre - This was EXCELLENT .
PE is used by SAA so you're in between 737's etc but the
ATC's are just great and fit you in !

OK PE isnt the same as Capetown , but if you're flying -who cares

If you need more info -just PM or type in 'Algoa' on the search here !!

Good Luck ........

Foggles

[NorthSouth]

sanjo69:Be very careful in accepting packages from UK based agents
That's a very sweeping statement. Do you have any experience of any other agents apart from the one you mention?
You also say that the best way to use training in South Africa towards a JAA PPL is to train to solo standard under SA rules then come back and complete in the UK. Unfortunately that's not possible. To obtain a JAA PPL you must complete a minimum of 25hrs dual and 10hrs solo in the JAA state which will issue your licence. So only 10hrs flown in SA will count towards the minimum 45 for the licence. When you take the air fare into account it's not worth going to SA just to fly 10hrs.

[Mike Cross]

Thanks for the info guys.

I think it will just be a bit of a jolly with an instructor. Flying for the purpose of sightseeing more than anything more serious.

We apparantly have a helicopter ride round Table Bay as part of the activities, which should be good.

Mike

[foghorn]

I can heartily recommend the Good Hope Flying Club - I have flown on several occasions with them including some pre-CPL hour building.

www.ghfc.org.za

If you've already done the Cape trip in the helo, get the instructor to either take you to Worcester via Voelvlei or up the coast to the Langebaan Lagoons. Spectacular.

[juba]

You have lots of flight schools around the PE area - Algoa is small, professional and gets you through the course quickly - I did my com there in 1995 and still keep in touch. Can't recomend them enough. They also have an excellent bar where you can of course learns loads - good luck.

[silverknapper]

It is very simple to convert an SA ppl to JAA.
Get Sa PPL
Build up to 100 hrs TT
Come home
Sit law and met(i think)
get JAA medical
Send off to CAA
Bingo!

It is simple, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
CFA are very good.
Do a search on FTC.

SK

[Irv]

oh-o.... lots of:

(a) accurate information that is being misunderstood
and
(b) inaccurate information that sounds believable

NorthSouth is quite correct that if you go and take lessons but do not get a licence (ie: you do some proportion of the foreign licence course but not finish and actually get the licence) and then arrive back in the UK, you can only claim max 10 hours credit towards a JAA PPL course. This is unfortunately being misread or misunderstood by some, but NorthSouth is correct and accurate as wha tis written concerns someone just taking training abroad and not getting a foreign licence.

On the other hand, if you come back with a SA PPL, it is automatically validated for private use in this country without formality. You will therefore be legal to fly here, but hopefully you will take a few lessons on navigation around the UK or team up with local flyers to become accustomed to it. Rental checkouts will be required just like for everyone else. You NEED never convert to a JAA PPL. (Many don't, and others just fly here for a year or two on the SA PPL until they finally end up doing a JAA CPL course and never actually convert at PPL level)

If you WANT to convert to a JAA PPL from a valid SA PPL, you always need a JAA medical and you always need to pass the full initial PPL Skills Test (the big one, 2.25 hours approx including nav and general handling), no matter how many hours you have. The only difference your hours make is to decide whether you have to do ALL JAA ground exams (under 100 hours experience) or only two of them (Air Law and Human performance). Only those 2 are required in the ground exam department if you have 100 hours total or more, but you STILL need the flying test, medical etc. Your foreign PPL needs to be current at the time of conversion to JAA too whenever you apply.

[Speedbird744]

I can't see any evidence of G-Reg or N-Reg aircraft in South African flight schools or private owners offering self hire for private pilots.
Can anyone give me relevant links of where I might find either american or british aircraft (preferably around Johannesburg)?
Thanks

[Mark 1]

I suggest you do a SA validation, as I don't think you'll find any N or G reg aircraft for hire.

FTC at Midrand can do this fairly quickly (on a good day), they are just N of Jo'burg about 2 min.s off the Pretoria Motorway.

This link has some useful gen:
http://www.hang-out.co.uk/light%20aircraft/johannesburg.html
The prices may have changed but it's still half the UK rate.

Lots of places to rent from around Gauteng

[Flying Boat]

Definitely do an SA Validation.

FTC @ Grand Central Airport, Midrand may not be the best place to do it with. Unless they have improved.

CFA, also in GC apt., have a good reputation.

There are also schools in Lanseria, Rand and Wonderboom.

Happy flying

FB

[Speedbird744]

If I validate my PPL in South Africa, will I also be able to exercise my Night Rating privileges on the South African licence or will that involve spending more hours at night there?

[Flying Boat]

The SA night qualification is a 15 hour course, not like our 5 hour rating, more like our IMC.

If you only have a night rating I don't think you will be able to carry it onto a SA validation.

I was under the impression that I could fly at night because I had an IMC and a night rating.

Flying around the bush at night in a single engined aeroplane is not recommended by most people I met.

I'm sure one of the SA trained pilots can help you with the accurate details.

FB

[chrisl1001]

Has anyone obtained their ATPL from a flight school in SA, if so, where? Have you any advice for an aspiring pilot who wishes to learn there?

[Langeveldt]

Yes, I am in the same boat also, could anyone advise on which flight schools to look at in RSA?

Ive been browsing for a while, so have a basic idea of whats going on, and the pros and cons of flying in RSA, but just wonder if someone whos "been there and done that" could give a couple of pointers...

[silverknapper]

Is it a JAA ATPL you're after? If so search under FTC, only JAA people there. If it's a SA one look at the African forum.

Cheers

SK

[Clogmaster]

www.43airschool.com

Did CPL/ME/IR there during 1999/2000, good setup, very professional and great learning environment.

CM

[rich49]

Hi all,
I am looking to do my PPL at FTC in South Africa in 2004. I was wondering what the general view on that school was? They look very professional. What is the environment there like? Is it a 'shorts and T-shirt' environment or a 'white shirt and braid' style?

What happens when I get back to the UK? How do I convert my SA PPL into a JAA
PPL? What are the costs? Also, if I got my class 1 at Gatwick, is that medical valid at FTC as they are a CAA approved school? Come to think of it, isn't FTC's PPL course JAA anyway??? If I enrol on the JAA PPL course I wont have to convert when I get back will I?
Help much appreciated.
Richard

[Fly Stimulator]

See Irv Lee's site at www.higherplane.flyer.co.uk (http://www.higherplane.flyer.co.uk/) for the answers to your licence conversion questions.

If you scroll right down to the bottom of the first page you'll find links to the FAQ and UK SA Flyer Community.

[Irv]

I think FTC is/was the JAA school. and as long as they still have approval, then you would get a JAA licence if/when you finished. If you go to other SA places, you would get a SA PPL.

Either licence (SA PPL or JAA PPL) would let you fly in the UK, and either would let you start the JAA modular CPL course when you had the experience and hours. There are reasons some pilots want to convert SA to JAA PPL level first, some do, some don't. For those wanting to convert at PPL level. you'll see from that reference above that builidng 100 hours before conversion means less JAA PPL ground exams to pass.

This following is NOT aimed specifically at FTC - you should ask certain questions of ANY UK approved JAA school outside JAA land where-ever it is:

Along with all the other tons of advice applying to any school for any licence, eg: not paying (much) in advance, it's worth asking definite questions about instructor/student ratios. Originally they could operate with local instructors who had had a very brief 'JAA-conversion' course.
However, since March 2002 they have had to have real JAA qualfied instructors although the previous local ones had 'grandfather rights' and could continue.
Obviously this causes problems from time to time as the older ones with grandfather rights leave to airlines and cannot be replaced quickly with locals, but only by proper JAA qualified ones. This has led to some problems at certain schools abroad with enough aircraft, plenty of students, plenty of instructors, but NOT the right sort of instructors!

It's also worth trying to find recent graduates from any school (anywhere) you are considering, to give you the latest low down. Try to get more than one opinion though.

[rich49]

Thanks for your reply. Just what I was looking for. Would any FTC grads care to comment on their personal experiences?
Take care,
Richard

[Irv]

Again, not aimed at any school, but each of them, it's worth doing a forum search on this site and any forum you know for the school name you are interested in, just to see what pops up

[rich49]

Thanks. I did a search and I think I will advoid them. I have hear nothing but good things about 43 air school, and I have been in touch with them, they are to say the least, very helpful. Looks like Ill have to book now though as already the Feb courses are booked up!!! (must be a good sign right :p )
Cheers
Richard

[groundfine]

Hi.
I'm thinking of doing a JARPPL there (initially), with the view to possible JAR ATPL at some later stage.
Does anyone have experience of FTC or information on gaining UK/JAR licences through the South African system?
Thanks.

[silverknapper]

Do a serach on the subject, a few people here, including myself have been there.

Cheers

SK

[George Tower]

Hi there

I can speak with some authority on flying in SA as that's what I have been doing the last few years.

Firstly SA is a great country for flying. It is a cliché but SA is as the tourist marketing people like to say "A world in one country". In flying terms this is also true as when you build your hours you can visit the mediterranean climate of the Cape and Garden route, the dry arid vastness of the Karoo, the temperate high-veld or the tropical Natal coast. Not only is there so much to see but from an aviation point of view there are many different circumstances you will encounter that will affect the performance of your aeroplane. The weather is also generally fine most of the year but it is still a very significant factor - depending on where you are there's lots of wind and storms that dwarf what we get in the UK.

Most of the procedures in SA are based on ICAO which is again a good thing. With particular regard to FTC is Jo'burg there is a lot written on the African forum and quite a bit of it negative, however they are now under new ownership and are approved to carry out most of the JAR modular course. The exemptions are the IR which needs to be done in a JAA state and the MCC course which they don't appear to offer.

The main advice which is often repeated is DONT PAY ALL THE MONEY UP FRONT. For the simple reason is if the school goes tits-up then you probably won't see your cash again. I personally don't know any one who has had that problem but if you read some of the posts on here a few people have.

I note that you are thinking of doing a JAR PPL - if you are intending to fly in the UK either to build hours or just for fun you can quite legally fly on a valid SA PPL. So you don't need the JAR PPL for that - this might save you a few quid as I know FTC quote for the PPL in sterling. If money is a factor you might want to consider doing your PPL with another school there's good flying schools in Cape Town and Port Elizabeth and you'd probably get your PPL for less as you have no need to learn in a C172 or equivalent due to the performance issues you'd face in Jo'burg.

Whatever you decide good luck

GT

[groundfine]

Thanks SK and GT.
Do you have any suggestions for the CapeTown based schools?

[Glynis]

Please check your PM

[George Tower]

At Cape Town International there is:

Good Hope Flying Club: www.ghfc.org.za tel +27 21 934 0257

Cape Aero Club: www.capeaeroclub.co.za

Delta 200 Flying Scgool: www.delta200.co.za (when I tried the link it didn't work for me)

There is also Stellenbosch flying club which is just outside Cape Town (30mins drive from the centre) and very beautiful scenary.

www.stelfly.co.za

Regards

GT

[FlyingForFun]

It was mentioned on another thread, just a couple of weeks ago, that new owners are taking over, or have taken over, or are soon to take over at FTC (sorry, I don't know the details myself!) Do a search and read all of the old opinions on the school, but bear in mind that they may be out of date, and it will be a while before much information on the new management hits these forums.

FFF
-------------

[silverknapper]

I know someone there at the moment who went back to finish his PPL which he hadn't had time for before. The day before his test it was cancelled, no reason given other then the examiner who works for the school was busy that day. He was leaving the next day. This was last week.
They may get their act together but I wouldn't go for a while. The CFI is one of the old owners, I doubt much will change overnight.
Geprge makes some excellent points and, given my time again I would have got an SA PPL. It is a beautiful place, especially on the coast. I know that Algoa flying club are excellent. I would rather have gone to these places than to Mid rand which is a dump anyway.

SK

[LondonJ]

I have a PPL and am looking to go abroad to do multi and IMC ratings in September. As far as I am aware there is only one other school outside the UK and US that is CAA approved called the 'Flight Training College of Africa' based in South Africa. Has anyone ever trained there before? or does anyone know anything about it?
Thanks

[FlyingForFun]

Not been there, but I thought about doing my CPL there, so I've researched it. Do a search for "FTC" - there is definitely no shortage of opinions about this school on these forums.

FFF
--------------

[LondonJ]

Cheers, the general feeling is to avoid FTC like the plague. 43airschool seems be quite popular though, could I do a CAA multi and IMC course there?
I am also having a little trouble using there website www.43airschool.com (i.e. none of the links down the side work), is this just a problem for me?

[silverknapper]

Hi
Can't get the web page working either. Last I knew 43 weren't JAA approved, although they were trying to get approval. They are an excellent outfit, however I also heard that they are so busy they are booked up months in advance and only take people on full courses, not just for individual modules.
The FTC stuff is mostly true. They are a very unorganised, money grabbing lot with no real clue how to treat people. Also their multis are past it. IMHO by the time you get there it's not really that good value. Try bargaining for a deal here. And look around, you may be surprised.

SK

[lfc]

'LondonJ' i had similar problems with that site. It happens now and then, not all the time. Im planning on going to 43airschool after my alevels to start my training, cant wait! Just trying to put my head down in my final year of A-Levels.

[LondonJ]

What course(s) are you doing at 43 lfc?

[Flying Boat]

The only listed JAA school in South Africa (UK CAA latest list) is reported to have ceased trading allegedly owing students R2,000,000.

The School formerly known as FTC & now known as Global Flight Training (Pty) Limited was reportedly closed down by authorities but has moved to Rand airport near Joburg.

Info can be found on the African Forum:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124307

and

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123522

All I can ask is, CAA why allow this state of affairs to continue?

There are many more threads concerning FTC.

Beware all wannabes.

FB:suspect:

[FlyingForFun]

Always sad to see schools closing down, although FTC have had so much bad press that I might go so far as to cautiously say that it's for the best. I use the word "cautiously" because I have no first-hand experience of them.

FB - a very interesting point about the CAA. One thing which is very important to realise is that the CAA are not responsible for checking that a school operate in a consumer-friendly or financially-viable way.

The only thing the CAA are responsible for is ensuring that the training the school provides meets their requirements and fulfills the requirements of the syllabus. Just because a school can do this, it doesn't mean that this school won't screw its students over financially, or have such old, badly maintained aircraft that they are always going tech, or double-book slots with instructors, or any one of a number of other things that some schools do. And that applies to every single school - I'm certainly not directing these comments at FTC.

That's why it is so important to check a school out thoroughly before commiting large amounts of time/money, and even then you should hand over as little money in advance as possible.

FFF
----------------

[Flypuppy]

There was talk following the SFT debacle that the CAA were looking into setting up some sort of ATOL type system that would bail out people who had been stung by sinking FTOs.

Nothing further has been heard about this since. I guess the transient constiuency of trainee pilots and the relatively small numbers of people affected don't make for a political hot potato.

[Cardinal Puff]

Always good for cheap hour building, though. The Septics are getting a little antsy about handing out visas to trainee pilots so maybe SA a good call for the non structured stuff.

[BillieBob]

The only thing the CAA are responsible for is ensuring that the training the school provides meets their requirements OK, so what about the requirement in Appendix 1a to JAR-FCL 1.055, paragraph 9 that reads "A FTO shall satisfy the Authority that sufficient funding is available to conduct training to the approved standards (see IEM No. 2 to JAR–FCL 1.055)."?

The quoted IEM lays down, in some detail, the procedure that the CAA should go through to ensure the financial viability of the organisations that they approve. Instead, the UK CAA just requires a signature on a scruffy piece of paper, which ensures nothing.
it doesn't mean that this school won't .......... have such old, badly maintained aircraft that they are always going tech The same Appendix to JAR-FCL 1.055 requires that "An adequate fleet of training aeroplanes appropriate to the courses of training shall be provided" and CAP 682 contains more detail as to what is 'adequate'. Don't fool yourself, if FTOs are using cr@ppy aeroplanes, it's because the CAA allows it - each and every airframe in use at an approved FTO has been inspected and approved for use.

It's about time that the UK CAA started doing its job properly, especially in view of the obscene amount of money it screws out of you and me.

[Flying Boat]

They are no longer JAR approved from the UK

I checked the latest UK CAA list of JAR approved Training Establishments.

Not one is in South Africa.

FTC & GFT (Global Flight Training) are not there, did the UK CAA listen?

This does not mean they have not conned a European state into coughing up approval.

Now is the time for some good schools to try, CFA (Midrand) or 43.
I understand they are good, not personnal experience, however, CFA were always helpful towards FTC overseas students.

Good Luck to all the ex FTC instructors and desk staff.

FB

:ok:

[onehunga]

Interestingly enough NFA and Progress are advertising in the May 04 edition of Flyer. Not a dickey bird about JAA approvals in their adverts though which is good. Suppose for the unitiated they have to work out for themselves that you will need to convert the SA licences to JAA world etc.

[Snapshot]

Hi all,
does anyone know where I can purchase in the UK a
1:500,000 topo map of the Cape Town area that INCLUDES areas up to at least Gansbaai?
Shall also post in African Aviation however, there
could be UK people that might know this?
Regards
Snapshot :cool:

[VP8]

Try these guys...usually got those sort!!

STANFORDS

By E-mail: [email protected]
By Telephone: +44 (0)20 7836 1321
By Fax: +44 (0)20 7836 0189

By Post:
Customer Services Department
Stanfords
12-14 Long Acre
London
WC2E 9LP
United Kingdom

VEEPS:ok:

[Snapshot]

VP8
Thanks very much
I shall give them a call
Snaps

[Mark 1]

Jeppesen do a VFR chart:
http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/commerce/catalog/staticFile.jsp?fileName=includes/cns6a_fact.html

The UK agents may not stock it, but you can order direct from Jeppesen/Bottlang in Germay.

[Snapshot]

They dont have the laminated version I was wanting to get!
Anyone else got any ideas?
Thanks again VP8 for the information
Snaps

Mark1
thanks, shall take a look
Snappers

[Seat1APlease]

http://www.stelfly.co.za

is a flying club at Stellenbosch just up the road from Cape Town.

They should be able to tell you if what you want is available, perhaps by mail order, their e-mail address is on the website.

[Snapshot]

Seat1A please
thank you, shall try Stellenbosch FC, wanted to drop in there
last time but was pushed for time and needed to get to
one of the farms to pick up some of my fav of the red stuff!:D

Thanks for everyone who has offered advice,
I think I have enough to get what I need now

Kick the tyres n light the fires!
Snaps

[Foggles]

Hi

How soon do you want one ? I have a 250 which just has Gaansbaaii on the east side ! - laminated - BUT its a 2000
issue ? any good ? otherwise I'm going down there on Sunday
and I'll try and get myself a 2004 issue ! back end of the month !
Foggles

[NorthSouth]

their e-mail address is on the websiteDon't bother, they won't reply.

LAMINATED SA charts!? Jeez you're a bit 21st century. Just use an illegible pencil and tear your chart to shreds like every other good SA pilot.

[Snapshot]

Foggles, thanks for the offer however im off there
next week though wont get into CPT until late
and then straight to Hermanus so wont get to get
anywhere near any shops enroute!

Does anyone know if there are any pilot supplies
in CPT airport? (and they open late?) haha

Think shall have to order one from Lanseria and
get a mate to forward it!
Thanks to all
totsiens
Snaps

[Foggles]

Snapshot

I'm off to Cptn on Sunday till 22nd then also down to Hermanus
with Mrs Foggles and the Fogglets for a bit of whale watching !
Looking for a nice place to stay with sea views -so if you know
anywhere please PM me !
would love to be able to fly over the coast to view the whales !
not too sure about the old 'nobby clarks' though ! although
I may persuade mrs F to go down in the shark cage !

There are a couple of Pilots's gear suppliers at Capetown
round the side there by Thundercity and the NAC heli school
office -however I'm yet to find a south african shop that stays
open 'late' Q everyone seems to go hoem at 4 pm latest and Fridayafternoon doesnt exist in the Captonian office , they're already flyin',drinkin' or or the beach by 2pm !
Somehow they have it right wnd we have it wrong !

Foggle s

[six-sixty]

Hi all

I am thinking of taking my good lady to South Africa for our honeymoon in Jan, and Cape Town has been recommended as a good destination for all sorts of reasons. I was wondering if anyone could recommend any good flying clubs/organisations/fields in the region from which to do a bit of self fly-hire sightseeing?

Also, any advice on specific licence validation issues in relation to the above.

Any help appreciated, feel free to PM me.

regards, SS

[flutter by]

There are a few flying schools in cape town

Flying schools at Cape Town Int.

43 Airschool (sorry no contact number but u can try their website for the Port Alfred school and ask the contact number for Cape Twon
http://www.43airschool.com/

Good Hope Flying Club
www.ghfc.org.za

Cape Aero Club
www.capeaeroclub.co.za

Then Ouside of Cape Twon Int.

Stellenbosch flying club
www.stelfly.co.za

Cape Town Flight Training Centre
www.cape-town-flying.co.za


Of course contact details and all info on websites or by contacting them
If u would like more info regarding the Cape Town area and some more tips feel free to visit this website www.avcom.co.za and ask some questions there as well

Hope this helps

[six-sixty]

Wow, world of info! Thanks very much flutter.

SS

[silverknapper]

Excellent flying - even better place.
On a JAA licence you would have to be validated to go solo. Allow a day or two for that - and I think licence has to go to Pretoria (CAA Hq) for admin. Could be wrong though.
In SA you have to be 'type rated' on each type you fly. Nothing major but may be helpful to find a school using whatever type you're current on, and maybe even read the POH before you go.
I think Irv Lee can even do validations in the UK. Try here (http://www.uksa.flyer.co.uk/) .

Enjoy

SK

[Amabokoboko]

You're picking a fantastic part of the world to honeymoon! Welcome! One of your compatriots contacted us at www.avcom.co.za (SA Pilots' Forum) and we recommended CFS but he subsequently had a problem there that he didn't go into. Might be worth PMing Bayalon (I think he uses the same nick on here and on Avcom) to find out what the story was. Locally this school has a very good rep but there have been mutterings on Pprune and elsewhere from Brits who've struggled with them. I can't comment either way because I fly out of Joeys.

BTW, do yourself a favour and go to the Nag's Head pub on the south side of Chapman's Peak Drive for calamari and sweet chilli jam. Hmm mmm! :ok:

[drauk]

Another vote for Stellenbosch flying club. I spend quite a lot of time in that area and before I had a license in the UK I did a couple of lessons there. The sightseeing options within half an hour of that place make flying in the south east of England seem a bit daft.

If you fall in love with the place and want to buy a nice house in the area, let me know...

[Irv]

You'll need a 'validation' to fly without an instructor which requires:
1- SA Air Law ground exaam pass
2- flight test - may include nav depending on experience but you'd expect some shake down for rental anyway.
3- A club who WANT to get your validation processed in minimum time.

I can give you advice on 1 and 2, but you really need to gauge enthusiasm from your chosen club about number 3. I got my 'private' validation in under 24 hours at Algoa in PE but I'm afraid a different club (mentioned ealier) first told me "not to bother as validations take about 3 weeks". Well they do take 3 weeks if you want them to! Alernatively they can be pretty quick if the will is there.
Irv

[Spéir]

Any advice or info about South Afica for hour building? I've had a look through the archives and the comments seem generally positive but not very specific - any ideas about typical wx/temperatures in June/July time? - any paperwork needed in advance to fly on a JAA PPL as with the US? - how do a/c hire costs compare to the US? - any advice good or bad on specific schools?

Thanks!! S.

[Peter Nielsen]

hello there

I did most of my training in SA and I can highly recommend it. Be carefull with your money.... ist AFRICA. Try Central Flying Academy at Gran Central Airport in midrand a bit north of joburg
PN

[birdlady]

Hi

Weather is generally good in June - July cause its the dry season. As mentioned above CFA is a great school but you may struggle to get bookings. I can suggest Superior Pilot Services, also in Grand Central and johannesburg has generally got better weather at that time of year. SPS is owned by an ex JAA instructor so he knows all the ins and outs. I did my PPl with them and they were excellent. You may want to check out the visa situation aswell.

I suggest you try this forum for more information. www.avcom.co.za

Hope this helps
BL :ok:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Try Blue Chip at Wonderboom airport as well. The field is close to the general flying area and has accomodation on site or accomodation can be arranged within a short distance.

June/July is the Southern winter and the highveld remains virtually cloudless over this period.

Another option would be to buy into a motor glider and then sell it on to the next person along or form a syndicate with a few UK pilots and use it for holidays and hour building. Sell your share to the next person who needs to build hours. The hourly running costs are about US$20-00.

I recently saw a motor glider for around US$20000-00 and a small biplane microlight for around US$8000-00.

[Spéir]

Thanks for that guys - certainly sounds positive - I will look into those

S

:ok:

[ppl.africa]

Hi Speir,

I've done my PPL with www.th-aviation-connexions.com.

I'm happy as you're not a number as anywhere.

Costs, perhaps not that cheap as in the US, but I prefer the individual instruction and more adventurous flying in Africa.

I'll definetely continue with my hour-building in South Africa!

good flying!

[Amadu]

Hi Good people,
i wish to go to SA and do ppl,cpl,etc. because it is affordable for me.Any idea of the best flight schools there?

[African Drunk]

Try progress near port elizabeth very good.

[Amadu]

do you have their web address, i mean progress

[AlternativeProcedure]

Hi Amadu,

I believe the site you are looking for is Progress Flight academy (http://www.flightacademy.co.za)

You can also try 43 Air school, alot of the SA trained guys here in Nigeria seem to have a lot of good things to say about it.
43rd Air school (http://www.43airschool.com)

Rgrds AP

[Solid Rust Twotter]

There are a few others inland if you want to get some hot and high experience. The weather on the coast can be unpredictable but winter weather in the interior is usually cloudless blue skies.

I'd recommend Blue Chip Aviation at Wonderboom, Central Flying Academy at Grand Central and Pretoria Flying School.

You should find them all if you google for them.

Good luck and hope you enjoy your time here.

[Flying Lawyer]

I did some flying while visiting South Africa last month and highly recommend it.

I didn't research training/SFH rates because I flew a privately owned C210 (thanks to a friend of a friend) but my impression was that rates in South Africa are significantly cheaper than the UK, less than the Caribbean, and possibly a little higher than America.
Although the Rand has picked up, accommodation, food, drink and fuel are very cheap compared with the UK.

Western Cape
The scenery is very impressive and, away from Cape Town itself, endless uncontrolled airspace in which to play to your heart's content.
It was probably just lucky timing, given what I've read on PPRuNe, but there was no waiting at all to take off from Cape Town International.

The Thunder City fighter collection is impressive. Just as I was considering whether (ie in danger of persuading myself that ;) ) more than £7k for a 40 minute flight in a Lightning was worth it for a 'once in a lifetime' experience, the decision was made for me - you need to book well in advance. Thanks to a friendly engineer, I consoled myself by sitting in one and letting my imagination do the rest. Maybe I should start buying lottery tickets.



Approaching a farm strip at Kersefontein
- near Hopefield, about 90 nm N of Cape Town
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Kstripapp.jpg


Heavy rain a few days earlier -
but puddles shallow as per landing info
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Ksfonteineb.jpg

Kersefontein farm is a wonderful old Cape Dutch homestead which is also a guest house. The owner, whose family have farmed there since 1770, is a keen pilot, very knowledgeable aviation enthusiast and excellent host.


Western Cape coastline
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Westcoast.jpg


Following the coastline back to Cape Town
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/CapeWest.jpg


Quick detour around Robben Island
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Robben.jpg


The prison - now a 'Mandela' tourist attraction
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Prison.jpg


Table Mountain and the Lion's Head
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/TableLion.jpg


The Twelve Apostles, just South of Cape Town
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/12A.jpg


Cape of Good Hope, from False Bay looking out over the Atlantic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/CapeGHope.jpg


Stellenbosch airfield
- in the winelands not far from Cape Town
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/C210Sbosch.jpg

Landed for a break. It must be one of the prettiest settings for an airfield in the world.
The surrounding mountains are stunning. The pic gives some idea, but doesn't do the scenery justice.
The Flying Club offers training at non profit rates. Link (http://www.stelfly.co.za/)


Light shower didn't last long
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/StellRainbow.jpg



All good things must come to an end ..........

Table Mountain, Lion's Head and sunset over Table Bay
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Capesunset.jpg

[Happyeater]

That looks fantastic. Thank you for sharing the pics.

I am thinking of a visit around Christmas time, combining a little hour building with a family holiday, is this practicable?

[porridge]

Flying Lawyer - your pics are great, made me very homesick!

[Irv]

Good photos - borders on 'entrapment' for me to go back again this year!
Irv

[Flying Lawyer]

Thanks for the kind comments.
I work on the basis that, if I take enough pics, some are bound to be reasonable. :)

Happyeater
Christmas should be perfect - it will be summer in South Africa.
Combining some flying with a family holiday shouldn't be a problem provided you do some research and planning before you go. eg Stellenbosch is only about 40 minutes by car from the centre of Cape Town and the Flying Club offers very good rates, but they don't have many aircraft and I'm told you need to book in advance to be sure of flying.

_____________________

A few pics from Botswana.
A long way from Cape Town, but not far from the Madikwe Game Reserve (highly recommended :ok: ) in South Africa's North West Province.
(It's also not far from the flashy 'Sun City' which seems to be popular with some Brits.)

http://www.e-gnu.com/images/satour/Maps/madikwe.gif


Horizontal vis wasn't very good on the day I arranged to fly, so the pics aren't great.


Kalahari Flying Club at Gabarone International
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Kalahari.jpg


Near Gabarone
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/NearGabaroneweb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Botswanaweb.jpg

Village near border with South Africa
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Botswanavillage.jpg

[Happyeater]

Many thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.

I'll look into the details.

[Flying Lawyer]

Pleased to help.

I also heard favourable comments about Good Hope Flying Club at Cape Town International. You're more likely to experience delays than at Stellenbosch but, that said, operating with the big boys at an international airport is useful experience - and good fun. :)

BTW, although Kersefontein Farm I mentioned previously is a guest house, you can fly in for lunch - booking required.

Here's another pic to whet your appetite - taken on the way back to CT from Kersefontein.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/SaldanhaBeachweb.jpg
Low level Saldanha Beach

[Circuit Basher]

Tudor - nice shot - I'm now officially jealous!!! :D

Pretty impressed - flying around 135 kts @45ft - assume that was QFE and not QNH!! And I won't even ask about the 500 ft rule / Rule 5 in SA!! ;)

[Heliport]

Spot the deliberate mistake in the previous post.





;)

[stiknruda]

Do you mean the one about 45' and still not in breach of Rule 5 - which does mean something similar in RSA!


Or do you mean the one about QFE/QNH where if I recall QNH is pretty much used exclusively as the in-country elevation range is so great that it would be impossible to set QFE at somewhere like Rand (circa 5500') and then be able to set QFE/QNH on the coast (Praia d'Ouro 28')?

Stik

[Circuit Basher]

Heliport - spotted and corrected!! Now sitting at the back of the class with a pointy hat with a 'D' on it!! :D

Should have looked twice and typed once!! Point remains the same, if not amplified, however! ;)

[stiknruda]

Circuit Basher

I think that you're sejourn to the back of the class might last a little longer than you think:)

Please explain to me why he IS NOT in breach of rule 5!

Stik

[Circuit Basher]

SnR - never suggested that he wasn't - just said I wouldn't ask about it!

For info - not too sure on SA Flying regs, plus he may have been 'flying in accordance with normal aviation practice for the purpose of taking off from, landing at or practising approaches to landing at or checking navigational aids or procedures at a Government or licensed aerodrome' OR 'landing and taking-off in accordance with normal aviation practice'. ;)

Anyway, it MAY be Rule 6 in SA!!

[Andy_R]

CB How many people, structures or vessels are around????

[Circuit Basher]

Difficult to tell - looks like one strolling along the beach with a dog, or is that just a fly on the windscreen??!! ;)