Visual separation in ACC

[caucatc]

I just do not know why not use visual separation in ACC ? Is that because of the speed is much faster than APP ?

[galaxy flyer]

By ACC, I assume you mean Class A airspace--positive control is the answer. Only radar or procedural separation allowed in Class A, no visual.

GF

[topdrop]

I'd call sighted and passed visual separation in class A. ;)

[criss]

By ACC he means area control. And it can be used (and is), not only in topdrop's example.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Not in UK Class A methinks......

[5milesbaby]

Why not?

Simple, mis-identification and the amount of RTF needed as both pilots must comply. There are a few nationalities I wouldn't even consider asking due to misunderstandings too.

The mis-idents can come from something as simple as BMI aircraft flying using Lufthansa callsigns - as ATC we do not know if the aircraft we are speaking to is actually owned or even painted up in the callsign colours. I know we don't have to pass operator just aircraft type, but if you heard me call a Lufthansa requesting for you to visually climb through and then you noticed it was a BMI craft, you would feel uneasy and possibly question whether you are climbing through the correct aircraft's level. Too dangerous and negates us actually having radar and in the UK as many sectors have lots of climbing/descending aircraft in close proximity it just wouldn't work.

[Dizzee Rascal]

Are we talking about VMC Climb and Descent and what class of Airspace does the originator refer to?

[Quokka]

Interesting... Visual Separation is banned from use in all classes of airspace in the FIR I'm currently working... including Class A.

No Visual Sighting & Passing allowed... RADAR or DME only.

[055166k]

Another relevant factor in UK airspace is that the SMF [a computerised separation monitor] does not know the difference between a visual separation and a loss of Radar separation. If we lose 5 miles/1000 feet, or whatever separation is required in a particular piece of sky...it can be more in some London ACC airspace, it will flag up on the supervisor's desk; instant suspension results. Even after a positive pass of opposite direction flights, re-inforced by both pilots' visual confirmation, climb/descent is forbidden until the required Radar separation is achieved.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<In the UK, particularly in TMA airspace, it was an acceptable technique in the early eighties to expedite >>

Are you sure? I was there in the 80s... and 70s.. and don't recall ever being able to use VMC climbs/descents in Class A TMA airspace..

[eastern wiseguy]

Was one of the caveats for a VMC climb/descent not Where radar is NOT available.....or have I forgotten the original definition?

[windneckin]

eastern wiseguy is correct, according to my understanding,... although the CAA prefers to use the term 'ATS Surveillance System' now :ok:.

[Schlumbumba]

In our UAC VMC climbs/descents were banned, since pilots have to follow the TCAS resolution advisory regardless of the clearance issued by the controller.

[kontrolor]

I just wanted to say the same ^^^^^^^
what would you do during the visual climb-out or descent and you get the advisory? besides, I think that visual separation on-route is not allowed worldwide.