Aria IL-62M landing accident, Mashad (Iran)

[akerosid]

An IL-62M crashed on landing at Mashad Iran today, reportedly killing 17 people:

ASN Aircraft accident Ilyushin 62 Mashad Airport (MHD) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20090724-0t)

[RoyHudd]

Reported at Mashad. On the Beeb website now. Looks like another bargain basement Russian-made machine. One wonders whether the Iranians are a people for whom aviation is just too darn difficult!

[Kazamb]

Is this the second in about two weeks, at this rate all the airlines in Iran are going to find themselves on the EU blacklist.

My thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones.

[Dani]

No, it's the consequence of the western technology boykott. The question is: how long do the Iranians want to continue to fly with russians wrecks. The leaders want their atomic energy, so the population has to suffer.

Dani

[Trentino]

unfortunately those blacklists are not applicable to countries the west doesnt want to piss off.

I heard from a little mouse that airlines (names withheld) were being blacklisted from flying into the U.S due to safety concerns but continued to fly into the U.S through compromise to keep the 'peace'

[Trentino]

lets not blame the boycott for their crashes, many airlines have safely flown Russian/Ukrainian equipment for decades...many issues come from poor oversight and *probably* poor SOP's

[SLFinAZ]

Up to 30 dead...

http://www.presstv.ir/photo/20090724/minooie20090724210443828.JPG

[RoyHudd]

Errr..your statement is purely political Dani. The issue of atomic energy/nuclear weapons is nothing to do with aviation, and is merely a personal opinion. Not Rumours and News. Not aviation. Wrong website.

[Dani]

Nope, because Iran wants nuclear energy, the western world put the boycott in place. Because of the boycott there is no western aviation in Iran anymore. Started already 30 years ago with the F-14A.

[akerosid]

According to Iranian media, the death toll has now risen to 30.

Iran: Thirty die in Aria Air plane crash in Mashhad (http://www.payvand.com/news/09/jul/1233.html)

Before we kick the Iranians again, it's probably fair to point out that the aircraft bore a Kazakstan registration. Is it fair to assume, then, that the crew were Kazakh nationals?

[patrickal]

Do you think maybe we can at least wait until the wreckage stops smoldering before we go bashing entire countries/cultures/airlines for something where we know nothing of the cause yet??? :ugh:

[hetfield]

Errr..your statement is purely political Dani. The issue of atomic energy/nuclear weapons is nothing to do with aviation, and is merely a personal opinion. Not Rumours and News. Not aviation. Wrong website.

I'm afraid you are wrong.

Why?

Have a look to IRAN Press concerning this and the recent tragic accident.

They are acusing the "WEST", whoever that is...

[falconer1]

difference where an airline is located geo politically in regards o accident statistics..

we know North America, i.e. the US and Canada, have the safest all around air travel infrastructure, closely followed by the European Union. Both spheres enjoy democratic systems, the rule of law and market economies..

Africa and the neostallinist Russia and some former soviet republics and the greater Middle East have no democratic systems, no rule of law, no market economies and are burdened by huge corruption..

If you look at the ICAO statistics those countries have the worst safety record in civil aviation..

so dictatorships are dangerous for their own people and for other states..

and civil aviation proves that to the point..

[hetfield]

falconer1 (http://www.pprune.org/members/302262-falconer1)

Perfect!

Spot on.

That's it about.

Thx

[Sqwak7700]

"Airliner catches fire, skids of runway..."

20 bucks says it did not happen in that order... :rolleyes:

[ankh]

How much of the aircraft is missing? Is this an odd location for a fire?

[Mister Geezer]

The current political situation has a direct influence on the aviation industry in Iran. To say otherwise would be very short-sighted at the very least. Earlier on this year, I looked at working in Iran on a western type for a Iranian operator. I did my homework thoroughly and spent some time speaking to the manufacture of the type that I fly, so I could get some accurate advice. They said that had been advised not to support the operator concerned in any shape and form. It has to be said that it is in any aircraft manufacturers interest to offer any necessary support to any airline that operates aircraft which have been manufactured by them. So I would guess that the decision not to support this Iranian operator was enforced upon the manufacturer due to political pressure and restrictions.

However sanctions cannot be blamed as the sole cause of these accidents. Other countries have had their aviation industry strangled by sanctions and have produced a safety record that the Iranians would probably be very envious of. It is interesting to note that it is mainly Russian types that seem to suffer in Iran. Bear in mind you have a large aviation industry in Iran with a large mix of Russian and Western types and Airbus and Boeing accidents are rare in Iran. With Iran sharing borders with Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan then in theory it should be easier to 'smuggle' parts for Russian aircraft than it would be for a western type. However there is a 'home-grown' spares industry that is active in Iran and with private airlines trying hard to make a profit, the number of corners that are being cut could be eye watering to say the least. Sadly these incidents will only create discussion and rumour and the real cause will never be known.

The Iranians could not really care if the EU blacklisted them. Iran Air and Mahan Air are the only airlines that operate regularly to Europe. The latter was previously blacklisted and worked hard to get themselves off the black list. If Iran Air is blacklisted then I am sure the Iranians will ban all European operators from Iran and that isn't going to go down too well in Europe. Therefore, I suspect an exception to the blacklist for Iran Air and Mahan Air would be made which would effectively change nothing from as it is now.

[CargoOne]

falconer1

How does North Korea fits into your theory? They should crash every morning and also after lunch if you judge how undemocratic they are, but somehow they still flying.
How does Soviet Union fits? USSR had very similar % of crashes to USA in 60/70/80s.

[747passion]

Hi

If you look closely to the news footage, they show the wings at some point. I noticed that the flaps and the slots are in retracted position. May be the crew had to land without them hence the emergency and the accident.

[falconer1]

would you fly as a pax in a North Korean Airliner???

and they do not fly a lot...they are mainly grounded...and other than China maybe they have a weekly flight to China, and maybe Russia, but other than that they are not allowed to land anywhere..who should travel on a North Korean airliner?????...they dont let their own people fly out, and nobody else from the West would like to go there....their air traffic does not exist..there is nothing...

plus I doubt that you would hear anything if they crash...no info gets out of that country...

The then Soviet Union fits my description perfectly...most crashes they had had never been reported in the West....ever heard of censorhip before???

The Soviets kept the crashes even a secret from their own people..

Their safety record could never be compared to the West... it was terrible

and if you doubt my theory, just download the respective ICAO docs...

it's all in there...

[Razoray]

Does anyone know if the Flight Crew perished?

It sure looks that way.......

[matkat]

I have refrained from any comment so far on this and the caspian accident I work for an Iranian operator flying european aircraft I work in their engineering dept. trying to get them up to EASA maintenance and operations standards and I can tell you without any shadow of doubt the embargo does hurt and IS contributing to the poor standards, the nuclear issue is totally irrelevent and and is in no way related to these tragic accidents I am no politician but I sincerly hope the sanctions against aviation are lifted sometime very soon but I am not holding my breath.

[olandese_volante]

Did the aircraft slam into something?

According to this article (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/article1266260.ece/Opnieuw_vliegtuigongeluk_Iran_17_doden) (in Dutch) the aircraft's U/C caught fire on landing, whereupon the aircraft went off the runway and head-on into a wall. Apparently at considerable speed.

[bcgallacher]

My father and myself worked a combined 17 years for both pre and post revolution Iranair and it had by far the best maintained aircraft I have ever worked with - I have been in aircraft maintenance for over 40 years working with several European,Middle Eastern and Asian national carriers and Iranair standards were second to none.After the revolution things changed and many of the good management were thrown out and replaced by technically incompetent political appointees - the result was the standards fell and the incidents and accidents started - aircraft were even destroyed by maintenance incompetence.I still regard my time with Iranair as one of the most satisfying times in aviation I ever had and look with sadness at what seems to to be happening with Iranian aviation standards.

[Massey1Bravo]

Rottenray, The Iranians only have shortages of spare parts of Western aircraft, not Russian aircraft. The old Ilyushins will fly quite happily if properly maintained and flown, as proven by the Russian airlines.

In fact we don't even know if technical issues brought down this one.

Old airplanes ain't a big problem, but standards of maintenance and airmanship are. Just have a look at those people still flying DC-6 freighters out of Alaska.

[Dan Winterland]

"If you look closely to the news footage, they show the wings at some point. I noticed that the flaps and the slots are in retracted position. May be the crew had to land without them hence the emergency and the accident."

The IL62 doesn't have leading edge devices. You can see the trailing edge flaps hanging off the back of the wings if you look closely.

[Dani]

I didn't get why the wreckage is laying on a vertical rod, the nose in the sky. Does anyone have an idea why they did that? To access the rear of the plane? Very strange emergency response.

Dani

[matkat]

Guys it is not as simple as saying that the only shortages they encounter is for western aircraft ie US manufactured in the past 6 months I have been trying to install a computerised maintenance system to date I am still waiting and the company have IMHO now installed a far inferior system to the one I required, RR recently told me it would take around 6 months for them to get permission to sell us maintenance manuals!!
bcgallacher(Brian) they are sincerly trying to change back to the high standards that were there before and will shortly be introducing a part 145 maintenance standard as you know me you can understand that I tell them how it is and not what they want to hear in my situation it is changing albeit to slowly for me but I have always been a "get it done now" person so it is probably just me.
Dave Mc.

[monkeytennis]

I think that 'rod' is the safety slide hanging down.

[Dani]

Thanks, TwoOneFour and monkeytennis.

[falconer1]

wish you and your fellow countrymen and woman all the best, and may the courageous people of Iran be able to rid themselves from the plague that is your present regime..


here a recent article by someone who is pretty up-to-date in all things aerospace..

Reuben Johnson...he also puts a bit too much emphasis on the fact of old airplanes in Iran, but then again he is right on a lot of accounts, at least in my view..

only thing, with a regime like the one you have since 30 years now, nothing much will change for the forseeable future..

"Tickets to Paradise" Flying Iran's hazardous skies

Tickets To Paradise (http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/757pnxnk.asp?pg=1)

[matkat]

Falconer1 thank you for the kind wishes but I am in fact a Scotsman working there under contract, my remit being to bring western quality maintenance and operational styles to that particular company.

[falconer1]

published by EASA

Page 9, Figure 2-3 gives the Fatal Accident Rate per 10 Mio Flights per world region..for the period 2001-2008

http://easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/g/doc/COMMS/Annual%20Safety%20Review%202008_en.pdf

[1 to go]

A few years ago I did some training of Iranian based pilots to convert them from a Boeing type to an Airbus type and I am afraid that the basic standards of each individual was frighteningly low. Eventually the airline did not get the aircraft due to the embargo.
Conversely I have seen Iranians in other parts of the World fly well. So I conclude that this is a cultural or religious problem that has evolved in Iranian society.
Western manufacturers will have to be very careful when the current embargo is lifted!

[747JJ]

I've flown with many a Iranian Captain, FO and FE. With one excpetion they where all professional and a good bunch to work with, but the ones I flew with left Iran and the old Iran Air just before or after the revolution. They where all trained to a very high standard by some of the worlds leading airlines. Miss flying with you gents.

[ORAC]

"High speed" causes plane crash in northeast Iran (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-07/26/content_11775969.htm)

TEHRAN, July 26 (Xinhua) -- Head of Iran's Civil Aviation Organization, Mohammad Ali Ilkhani, said that "high speed" was the cause of the plane crash in northeastern Iran on Friday, the official IRNA news agency reported on Sunday.

Upon technical investigations and reading the CVR (Black box) of the Russian-made Ilyushin Il-62 plane, it was found that "high speed" was the cause of incident, Ilkhani said Saturday evening according to the report.

"The investigation shows there was a kind of disorder in the cockpit and the pilot had no full concentration to control the plane," he said, adding that the plane should have had a speed between 145 and 165 miles during landing, while the investigation says its speed was 197 miles that moment.......

[Doors to Automatic]

To save everyone the trouble that''s 171 kts.

[Super VC-10]

Aviation Safety Network are also reporting speeds in mph instead of kn.

ASN Aircraft accident Ilyushin 62M UP-I6208 Mashhad-Shahid Hashemi Nejad Airport (MHD) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20090724-0t)

[GBV]

we know North America, i.e. the US and Canada, have the safest all around air travel infrastructure, closely followed by the European Union. Both spheres enjoy democratic systems, the rule of law and market economies..

Africa and the neostallinist Russia and some former soviet republics and the greater Middle East have no democratic systems, no rule of law, no market economies and are burdened by huge corruption..



I do agree that aviation safety is related to corruption, but maybe you should have a look in the Continental crash in Bufallo thread before state that the US is such a safe place to fly.

BTW, there's a lot of talking about fatigue and inadequate resting at Pprune. Isn' that caused due to market economy, capitalism in our lovely democracies?:E

[etrang]

According to the Aviation Safety Network link above, there were 16 fatalities of whom 13 were crew. Does this suggest that most or all of the crew were sitting at the front of the plane for landing, if so why? or is there some other reason why there should be such a disproportionate representation of the crew in the fatalities?

[WhyIsThereAir]

BTW, there's a lot of talking about fatigue and inadequate resting at PPRuNe. Isn' that caused due to market economy, capitalism in our lovely democracies?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

Well no. It is usually a sign of boneheaded management, where the managers have no comprehension that flying a plane is any different than chewing out an employee. If the managers don't konw what they are managing (and western ones don't because they come out of Business School, not Aviation School) then they will mess up. Of course if the managers are bonehead political appointees that have no clue what they are managing, you are going to get exactly the same results.

[vovachan]

The ac carried a replacement crew who also perished. It is reported that the co CEO was riding in cockpit which is a case of too many cooks etc.

[Doors to Automatic]

The report suggests that the aircraft overran the 3800m runway by 1100m. That is some landing run!