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LTN man
3rd Oct 2001, 22:05
Press release from easyland

easyJet today applied for take-off and landing slots at Heathrow for six daily services to Belfast International.

British Airways announced last week that it is to withdraw its London (Heathrow) to Belfast route and bmi British Midland has switched its Heathrow services to Belfast City airport (from Belfast International). This means that from 29 October, there will be no direct service from Heathrow to Belfast International Airport.

easyJet has written to the slot co-ordinator for London Heathrow Airport asking for the take-off and landing slots that BA has vacated.

easyJet is ready and willing to pick-up the slots and fly the route in tandem with its five-daily Luton - Belfast International service.

Ray Webster, easyJet Chief Executive, said:

"Passengers wishing to fly between Heathrow and Belfast should not be inconvenienced just because British Airways is in trouble. If BA cannot make the route work, it should hand over the slots to an airline that can."

The Guvnor
3rd Oct 2001, 22:14
Sounds more like PR puff than anything else to me - and given that EZY has followed a course of paying peanuts at airports, it's going to have a hell of a shock at the champagne and caviar rates charged by the BAA!

Anti-ice
4th Oct 2001, 02:06
Too right !

Trust old Nana 'stelios Mouskouri to jump on this bandwagon, would like to see the revenue generated//landing fees ++.

Can't wait to see the advertising campaign for this one . . .

homer j
4th Oct 2001, 03:39
Good for EZY! Even with LHR fees, I'll bet that they can still operate a service cheaper than BA.

Fares won't be as cheap as other EZY routes, but if they think that the market can stand their price vs. service ethos on this route, then let them try.

Heard recently that BA wanted a rule change to protect all the LHR/LGW slots that they are currently unable, (or UNWILLING to fly in the current climate) - I think that they have a bloody cheek!

Everyone knows that the terrible events last month are being used, in some measure, as an excuse to cut services to a level below that which is required by the recent downturn in passenger figures. I'm sure this will become clear when services eventually return to normal, and people realise that "overcapacity" in the industry has more or less disappeared.

I think slots should be available to those airlines prepared to take a chance, those airlines willing to minimise disruption to passengers, (and I'm sure most passengers would agree with this).

Why not let them try? After all, "The proof of the pudding......"

PS. I'm not employed by either company named in this reply!

swede-basher
4th Oct 2001, 04:22
Err, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it TBI that owns Belfast International and not the BAA as suggested above?? This being the case isn't this the same TBI that owns LTN and has recently agreed a new scale of charges with it's largest customer, which happens to be EZJ ???

But all of the above is oflittle matter because he won't get the slots.

MEVERTSGB
4th Oct 2001, 04:39
Why is that f@ tw@ Stelios so obsessed with this route to Belfast ? What is he trying to prove ? He has one great advantage over BA, though. He can probably make this route pay, despite the high landing fees at LHR, by asking his easySh*t flight crews to clean the cabin and the toilets on the way out, thus saving the cost of cleaners. Could work, couldn't it ? Believe it or not, those muppets would do it as well otherwise they would have never passed these easySh*t psychometric tests !!!! I bet you guys wondered what these silly questions were all about !? Ever wondered why Stelios is overweight ? He regularly eats at McDonalds. For those of you who don't, it's a place where the restaurant manager is expected to sweep up fries and clean the toilets (to lead by example!). Now you know where Stelios got his marvellous ideas !!!

homer j
4th Oct 2001, 05:07
Charterguy, are you suggesting that cabin crew shouldn't help clean the aeroplane during a quick turnaround? - most do by the way. If so, do you think cabin crew normally undergo psychometric testing? If not, I can only asume that you feel EZY flightdeck feel obligated to assist in cleaning duties. Umm -don't think so!

Don't most "Majors" now employ similar tests? Surely we as pilots are not being assessed on our ability to "muck in" as cleaners? I don't see you berating BA or VS and their testing. What is your problem with EZY?

ghost-rider
4th Oct 2001, 06:10
Charterguy -

Hmm - so you fly PA-41s and know all about EZY pschcometric tests, yet violently slag off the airline, its boss, AND it's crews ! Very professional. :mad:

Failed to get a job here did you by any chance ? :rolleyes:

Morons like you make me vomit !

Gypsy
4th Oct 2001, 10:50
Charterguy

I've met Stelios and he is a gentleman; you on the other hand are not.

Check in for some CRM training.

nitefiter
4th Oct 2001, 11:37
Charterguy
I dont work for easyJet,but we often go down the back and help out the cabin staff, clean or security check and make the tea,I dont think this is beneath me we make the slots!!
get REAL :mad:

euroboy
4th Oct 2001, 11:57
Good luck to EasyJet on the LHR-BFS route. But has he done his homework before shooting this mouth off this time?
So who at LHR will be his handling agents?
BA, bmi, Swissport, Aer Lingus?

Has he looked at the type of passenger market he will be gaining at LHR?
EasyJet say they are a point to point airline. So those pax finishing their journey in either London or Belfast no problem. BUT most domestic flights carry connecting paxs interlinig with other carriers, BFS is no exception. As most of these paxs will purchase tickets via Travel agents, or business travel agents who EasyJet do not deal with. Paxs using this service (if it operates) will have to reclam baggage and check in again at LHR to continue their jouney. So fares on the route could go up, as no interlining deals, and paxs who use BA from BFS to SYD say will not be getting the BFS-LHR leg subsidised ie sometimes free or 40.(as in BA Worldwide holiday brochure for example). Journey times extended, late paxs arriving for flights, etc...Most paxs have no real idea how much time they need for connecting flight so of course they will leave the min. or no time, if left to book themselves between 2 airlines.
I can help but feel this is another "Mr Blair will be using EasyJet this summer ad" NOT!
Having a look at there website under news he just can not help himself. Cashing in on Swisair paxs offering them flights for 20.
If he is doing so well should he not pay back the government payment for insurance on this aircraft? He takes the hand out when he needs it, and bleats when others need help over other issues. If Stellios starts operating the BFS-LHR route he will have to stop rubbing up the majors the wrong way as it will be the paxs that will will suffer.

Best bet. Use bmi if you are interlining.
Beware of the "Orange Grim Reaper"

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: euroboy ]

The Guvnor
4th Oct 2001, 12:31
SwedeBasher - I was referring to LHR which unless I'm very much mistaken still belongs to the BAA! I understand that TBI has given them a 'corporate' deal for their various airports. Next stop - easyLeeks at CWL? :eek: :D :eek:

Charterguy - hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I'm sure that you'll see your own employer also requiring you to clean your aircraft in an effort to cut costs in the not too distant future. Nothing wrong with that! :D

euroboy - you're spot on with that assessment; which is (apparently) partly to blame for BA pulling off the route as with interline pax only 1 is assumed as revenue for the domestic flight. This then makes those flights appear to be uneconomic. Handling at LHR - as well as the landing and other airport charges - is astronomical.

WN and FR have been highly successful by sticking to their formula. It seems to me that EZY may be about to 'do a Debonair' and go off the rails somewhat.

Daifly
4th Oct 2001, 13:04
I'm sure EZY will do it.

Although we're a charter operator we use LHR regularly and the slot situation at present is great (for us). We can get slots at most times of the day, which means that the airlines must be cancelling a whole heap of slots (throughout most hours of the day slots at LHR are oversubscribed, so even if five (for example) slots are cancelled it still doesn't free any up).
If a slot is consistently not operated then the slot is withdrawn and, if available, reissued.
There are many cases where, through the winter season, Navajos, Senecas et al have operated into LHR on a daily basis under an airline callsign - just to keep the slots (although it's also used as a corporate transport then too).

I'm just wondering how they'll be able to afford 75 corporate transport a day!

Katy
4th Oct 2001, 13:22
It's comments like the majority of the ones made above (excluding Gypsy, my friend) that explain why pilots fly aeroplanes and Stelios is at the head of multi-million pound p.a. international airline business.

Wake up and welcome to the world of business!!!

By the way if you EVER call the cabin crew easySh*t in my presence you will know about it!!!!!

FlapsOne
4th Oct 2001, 14:12
charterguy

There's is so little fact in what you have posted it's not worth replying to directly!

However, just in case any 'wannabe' cabin crew out there reading this guy's drivel:

Cleaning the cabin involves putting lose rubbish into a gash bag - and YES some of us on the flight deck go and help as well if there's time (we are a crew after all!)

EZ cabin staff DO NOT CLEAN TOILETS. That's the job of the professional contractors.

Stick to your PA41.......and my deepest condolences to anyone that flies with you :mad:

flypastpastfast
4th Oct 2001, 14:47
Without going off topic too far, I think it is staggering that neither MOL or stelios realise that 'what goes around comes around' in this industry.

To those losing their livelihood, it is nothing short of sickening to see their likes smuggly relishing the loss of routes and collapse of major airlines.

It is also BAD BUSINESS. Whilst the industry is extremely competitive, to rub your hands with glee at the failure of other commercial ventures IN PUBLIC is nothing short of stupidity. In short it reeks of commercial naivety.


The new and bigger enemies of these people will be biding their time. The airline industry will recover in a short time, people will start travelling again, but no one in the aviation industry will forget the sickening glee expressed by these two companies.

caulfield
4th Oct 2001, 15:47
Amazing isnt it?Anyone criticizing this so-called airline is assumed to be a rejected applicant.This move is decidedly underhand and mercenary in its timing but is not unexpected from such a company.
They might be able to get in through the back-door at places like GVA and AMS but at LHR there is no room for riff-raff like this.

gul dukat
4th Oct 2001, 16:58
Caulfield !this "riff-raff" seem to be shifting passengers !! more than our so called "national" carrier .Wish they WOULD get into LHR and put the bat back up the ar$e of bmi .Drop the prices and the punters will fly !!

controller friendly
4th Oct 2001, 18:07
Oh dear, i just couldn't resist!

I don't understand why so many of you are coming down on EZY.How are they exploiting the current situation?

BA leaving BFS is horrendous for everyone from the poor people who have lost their jobs,to the flying public who have lost lots of choices.

How come the only airlines not to be laying of staff or cancelling services are the low-costers?

Yes,it may be difficult for Joe public to work out how to interline through LHR,but at least EZY may give them that option.Not forgetting that if this does happen,BFS may become an EZY hub,and some of the 200 odd people that BA are making redundant,may be able to find new jobs with EZY,lets forget about snobbery here,this comes down to whether you can afford to pay the mortgage or not!

Good luck to everyone in these horrible,horrible times. ;)

Katy
4th Oct 2001, 18:20
Sour grapes I think!!

Peoples memories are short - have we all forgotten the underhand, bully-boy tactics used by BA to try to 'dispose' of Virgin and before that Laker.

Not very nice is it when the shoe is on the other foot.

EASY! EASY! EASY!

Phillipa Hole
4th Oct 2001, 18:36
Katy, for once I agree with you, good luck to EJ. Maybe a few jobs maybe saved in BFS.
Controller friendly, trying to arrange Friday night, I'll even let you borrow my electrical appliances!!
;)

BavarianBoy
4th Oct 2001, 23:34
Hmmmmm.. sounds very like a good PR stunt to me. Easy to LHR just doesn'y fit the orange business plan, also can't see the slots being available as other operators have tried as well and not been successful. I believe AF investigated the idea of using British European(large presence at BHD) to operate to LHR from the emerald isle with AF slots but it didn't work out.
Mind you, it seems Northern Ireland along with ABZ and NCL may need more London routes???

northern boy
4th Oct 2001, 23:52
Do I detect a slight note of panic in some of these posts? Talk of keeping the "riff raff" out of LHR sounds a bit like sending in the gunboats to sort out the natives,Outdated and irrelevant.There is a major realignment going on at the moment triggered, although not necessarily caused by the events of Sept11. Many of the old style big carriers who depend on high fares are pulling out of short haul routes because the revenues they generate will not support their corporate empires and legions of office hacks. Expect some flag carriers to vanish and/or merge. The routes they abandon will still need to be served and if new style operators can satisfy the need and make money, whats wrong with that?.The same Colonel Blimp reactions currently being directed at the low cost operators were levelled at Laker and then Virgin when they started out.The cosy old boy network which allowed the established order to destroy Laker and BCAL and very nearly Virgin is starting to show a few cracks and is unlikely to survive much longer. The market is there and the public have a better eye for a bargin and less loyalty than they did in the days of empire. Those who can adapt will survive and prosper.

Whoever "charterboy" may be, I hope he dosen't work for an airline.If he does, his attitude to cabin crew should earn him a cup of frothy, strange tasting tea.

Whippersnapper
5th Oct 2001, 00:06
Charterguy

You obviously tried for a job at easy, and obviously failed. The reason is ... also obvious. As flt crew we try to help our cabin crew as much as time permits (doubt with your attitude you'd make a 20 min turn-round). We're not so arrogant as to assume that a little such help is beneath us, or so slovenly as to leave the aircraft a mess for the next pax. You're bitter and we're well paid. Nuff'said.

Caulfield:

It's not mercenary or cruel, it's just business. Yes, it could have been done with a little more tact, but then BA have not been kind to us in the past either. We didn't make BA pull off that route, but why shouldn't we benefit now they have? We're not here to stick it to anyone, just to make money. To do that you have to exploit oportunities.

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Whippersnapper ]

INLAK
5th Oct 2001, 00:37
There seems to be a lot of anti-EZY comments by a few here. They may not be the up to the standard of a lot of full service airlines in some peoples opinions, but, there is no denying that it is the way ahead for aviation. In these troubled times, the low fare carriers seem to be the least hit, and although time is yet to tell, may survive better than some of the bigger more established airlines.
I have flown with EZY several times when I have had a choice of carriers on a particular route, and have never experienced any major problems. So what if i don`t get a cold tea and a two pieces of bread on a 40 minute flight, its hardly worth an extra 100!!
For a company to succeed, the staff have to be able to do their part, and a little more if required. I don`t see a problem with the crew, both cockpit and cabin helping to clean the aircraft. In the need of a quick turnaround it can be a benefit to us all. The pax get away on time, and we get home earlier!! I have experienced this myself, from both sides of the equation. I have helped the cleaning staff an the cabin crew to clean an aircraft, and I don`t have a problem with it. I know a lot of people though who would never do it, citing that it is not part of thier job, often stating that "why should they help the company when the don`t help us?" This kind of attitude, especially in times like this, reminds me of the age-old saying of "cutting of your nose to spite your face" Unfortunately it seems to be rife in places.
It works both ways however, and the airlone should recognise the effort put in by people, especially if it goes beyond their normal duties. The failure to do this is also rife and just makes the situation worse.

Warwick Hunt
5th Oct 2001, 00:51
FACT

Needed to book a day return from London to Geneva.

easyJet 80 return from Luton.
Swissair/BA, both the same price @ 490 return from Heathrow.

Now who is going bankrupt.

Needless to say I will put up with the lack of seat allocation and food!

euroboy
5th Oct 2001, 02:40
OK my orange friends.
Whos training facilities do you use?

Hint its at LHR.

I am pleased that EasyJet will do the LHR-BFS route.
I`ll get to go to Lyon instead.
What I have tried to say is that EasyJet should stop being so hostile to other carriers especially with their hoped new route to BFS from LHR.
LHR is full of main line carriers, which EasyJet is not. Coming into LHR with such a route needs some type of co-operation between them with the interlining paxs. Your point to point paxs will have no problems, but the paxs with connections will suffer in the long run.

MEVERTSGB
5th Oct 2001, 03:58
I think we all ought to stop using the term easySh*t. Stelios might decide to branch out and market a new laxative ! :D

flypastpastfast
5th Oct 2001, 04:38
Certain orange people seem to be supporting the hype/nonsense that all of a sudden, budget airlines are the only viable airlines in Europe. This is simply not the case.

For many years a lot of business travellers have had the choice of flying with easy from Edinburgh to London, and yet for some bizarre reason chose to pay more to fly with BA/BMI. Surely being shrewd business people they have good reason for making this decision. Even economy travellers still use mainline carriers, as they provide a better service and are often as cheap/cheaper.

Many people are glibly putting forward the notion that the difference between BA and say easyjet is you don't get food on board, but to a business traveller, the decision is much more complex. Factors such as reliability, connectivity,through ticketing and quality customer service are all very important. These are the reasons why a business traveller will pay more, and not just because of a sandwich (another urban myth generated at MOL/easyland)

At present, a lot of business people are not making trips they would normally make, as is described on other threads. But, in a few months this type of travel will again pick up, and many will once again intentionally (for whatever reason) choose NOT to fly with a budget carrier.

It is not simply a case of Main carriers are uneconomic and budget airlines are - such an analysis is foolish and naive to say the least. The likes of MOL et.al like to perpetuate this myth for their own reasons, mainly to impress investors.

Budget airlines especially in the UK, have essentially partially created their own market segment, helped partly by problems on the railways last year. But the BA and BMI Edinburgh to LHR routes up until recently were very healthy

So could we please draw a line under this nonsense about 'budget airlines are the only economical airlines', as it is quite clearly not the case either before or after WTC. Current economic conditions are transient and difficult to predict, and it is poor form to be mocking airlines who are currently making many of your colleagues redundant.

The prosperity of any airline, including the budget carriers, could change very quickly because of the current situation.

These are difficult times for everyone.

As regards Belfast, the city airport is far more useful for business trips and social visits, and as someone else has suggested, BMI moving to the city is a shrewd move indeed. Aldergrove is fine as long as you don't want to visit Belfast.

I think Belfast city will soon become the more important airport, and Aldergrove will be more like what Luton is to London. Which is fine, as it will help it stay viable.

MEVERTSGB
5th Oct 2001, 04:45
By the way, sorry to disappoint some (or perhaps most) of you guys who appear to work for easySh*t and think that I must be a 'failed applicant'. If you run your own show rather than being employed by someone else, you get to FLY without HAVING TO APPLY !!! If you had invested as much money and hard work into a business as you did into gaining your licence, you could have been earning three to four times what EJ can afford to pay you. And you'd be flying your own plane as well. And there is one more advantage in working for yourself. You would know well in advance if the SH*T was to hit the fan. Unfortunately most airline employees get to find out when it's too late.

jumpseater
5th Oct 2001, 10:35
Guvnor, so easyjet about to come off the rails? not looked at the share price performance recently then, thats real money put in by real people, who obviously are prepared to risk in these times their money on an airline!
When do you float on the stock exchange then? How many virtual investors are queueing up to throw their virtually hard earned cash at the worlds favourite virtual airline? :D

rebeccadblake
5th Oct 2001, 11:39
I am soo glad to see an airline doing well.

I have always had my heart set on working for easyjet when I pass my exams, this has made me like then even more.

I hope all goes well for them.

GO GET EM EASY JET/STELIOS

Orangewing
5th Oct 2001, 12:53
In answer to your question, euroboy,our training facilities are nowhere near LHR.
They are in fact at the Flight Safety Training Centre, which is at LTN.That is where all 737-300 / 700 Pilot training is done, along with cabin crew training. I think your info is somewhat out of date.
As for charterboy, I hope you enjoy flying yout Pa 31 down in the reeds,you certainly don't belong in any airline.
It is also perhaps unfortunate that easy are seen to be gloating in this present climate; I think it is worth bearing in mind that it is our marketing / management ( not known for their sensitivity) who appear to be gloating, it certainly is not the eJ Pilot community - many of whom have friends and colleagues in suffering airlines. When it comes down to it, we are all Pilots and do not wish ill on each other.
:cool:

Few Cloudy
5th Oct 2001, 14:35
Far from cashing in on the airline crisis, EZY has helped to cause it - just as all could have predicted - the other people who helped have been the managers of the majors who just don't get fact that costs & fares have to come down.

Yep, this is the real world - I worked for a major for 25yrs, now in its death throws and it may well be EZY who get some of the slots. Far from blaming them, blame the (then) management, who didn't want to know and took too little action, too late.

Anti-ice
5th Oct 2001, 14:51
Well said Flypastpastfast , All that you say above is true.
There is no comparison with lo-cost carriers/majors, people, particularly business people want more for their money than just food onboard.
They want frequent on-time services, flexibility,ability to connect,and a host of other backup ground services that the majors always provide.
They don't want to be stuck in the airport for 48 hours beacuse their budget operator is grounded by a passing snow flurry. :D

The larger airlines do spend alot of money providing the kind of service these passengers want, and ensuring their journey is on the whole seamless.

BIG E
5th Oct 2001, 17:26
anti-ice

there is no denying that snoclo does give easy a major headache,however is this the airlines fault...no.This is an airport issue.What would happen to ba's operation if LHR closed for 6 hours?The rest of the 360 days of the year i think you'll find easy equals or betters the industry average for otp.

swede-basher
5th Oct 2001, 17:31
Oh well back to the drawing board. BMI have just annouced they will re-instate 4 sevices daily.

Captain Speeking
5th Oct 2001, 19:34
So that is now 11 flights a day by BMI to Northern Ireland with the flexibility of B735 to A330 into BFS and the A320 into BHD. New business lounges and seamless connecting flights within the biggest alliance.

Why check in, to wait in a shopping precint (in BFS), to fly no-frills for an hour and a quarter only to have to go to the carousel to collect your bags and walk all the way to another terminal just to check in again. You might do it once but not a second time.

As someone says in a post on a similar subject in this forum - the future is blue! ! :eek:

[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: Captain Speeking ]

Macman
5th Oct 2001, 22:00
Charterguy,

Please enlighten me as to how I can earn four times my salary at Easy by flying a PA-31 - I am really interested!!!!

euroboy
5th Oct 2001, 23:31
Orangewing. Pilot training might be at LTN (Flight Safety Boeing?)
But at Cranebank in June there seemed to be a lot of EasyJet Cabin Crew (a few of who I know well) and a few pilots using the training school.

I`m now pleased to see on local TV that EasyJet management have stopped there slagging/knocking the major carriers and I saw a sensible interview taking place.
The bases of which said that EasyJet does not operate transatlantic routes so not effected in the same way. They operate from smaller airports, and they have lowered their fares to get the public flying again.
At last common sense.

Gypsy
5th Oct 2001, 23:33
Charterguy - your a great success (in your own mind). Do you know what CRM is?

Euro whats-it - if you're still looking for the eJ training facility, you'll find it is a very new one just down the hill from LTN airport and to give you a hint - thats no where near LHR. Was anything else you wrote more worthy of attention?

I'm constantly staggered by so called professional pilots who speak apparently with authority but without actually knowing what they're talking about.

I am of course saddened by the state of our industry at the moment and like many pilots I have been made redundant myself in the past, and I'm hoping not to repeat the experience. I feel for the guys and girls at BA but for the Company, I shed few tears. Its the same mob that gleefully stuck the knife in to Laker, Air Europe, Virgin not to mention the Dan Air pilots pension fund.

[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: Gypsy ]

[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: Gypsy ]

kennedy
6th Oct 2001, 16:35
Euroboy,

Having reached the final stage of the training at easy in the last few days, I can confirm that easy do use the BA training facility at Cranebank.

In the 2 1/2 months of training up to base training (circuits) I have been at Cranebank for precisely 3 hours! An initial fire and smoke Drill, and to go down a 737 and 321 slide twice!

Maybe BA are learning, they as contactors must have undercut the opposition who have these facalities!

Hope for the struggling Golith yet! :D :D :D

FlapsOne
6th Oct 2001, 20:43
Euroboy

Good to see EZ using ".......smaller airports..." like AMS, PMI, MAD, BCN....

BA, Virgin et al were all very quick to criticise the low cost operators when they started business in Europe with phrases like "....this is not what the European public want.." etc.

So sincere were they, that we saw the likes of GO (the low cost operator that really was from BA despite what Ayling Bob used to say in public) being started and hugely subsidised in order to put smaller companies out of business. It was blatant and deliberate. It did push Debonair over the edge (although they were not far away from the edge anyway!).

Now when the tables are turned, albeit as a result of disastrous circumstances, the low cost operators remain the verbal target of the majors simply because they are doing well and have survived the onslaught. The majors players want it all ways.

So back off guys! I feel desperately sad for any of you under threat of redundancy but, as someone posted earlier, to site EZ and co as being 'responsible fir it' is outrageous.

euroboy
7th Oct 2001, 01:10
Well we seem to being going off the subject of this thread, but hey that what discussion is all about.

Laker was ahead of this time bringing low cost no frills with SkyTrain. However, BA was a nationalize carrier, and the Thatcher Government had no choice but to support the flag carrier. Laker tried Europe, but European governments had to protect their national carriers, only Switzerland allowed Laker to operate to Geneva/Zurich. Laker also throught he would be successful with his bid and order a number of Airbus 300`s.
He had aircraft but no where to fly them.
see www.workers.org/marcy/economy/crisi04.html (http://www.workers.org/marcy/economy/crisi04.html)


Air Europe expanded too quickly, and with down turn in the market due to the Gulf War led to their demise.
Dan Air main business was tour operator traffic. As it became fashionable with tour operators to use House airlines Dan Air was forced to move to schedule services. Airtours was a big customer of Dan Air.
Dan Air`s fleet was a mixed and match job, with one of something.

My first posting was because I worked the route for many years with BD, and experienced many paxs with connecting flights from LHR, and seemed a rushed idea. BA was rumoured to want to drop the LHR-BFS route years ago. In fact BD had a 52% market share on the route at the time.
I also worked in a travel agents and dealt with flights, ticketing and enquires.

The second posting was trying to show that airlines work together in some form, and that they use each others facilities. I was sent to the BA fire school for refresher whist at BD, when I was an SEP trainer with Debonair we used Monarch slide hall(so I know what its like to lose your job).
I feel Debonair did not go down because of the likes of Go etc... More the fact Debonair had too many fingers in the too many pies. The paxs did not know what to expect, was it low cost or main line carrier. It lost its way and could not find its place in the market.

I have no qualms with EZ as Luton Airport is the largest employer in the area, especially as Vauxhall will be closing the door in the future. It would be economic disaster for that area.

I don`t think EZ pilots or cabin crew are gloating; this tends to be marketing and management departments.
EZ marketing is a little to quick at times, eg. with the summer ad regarding the Prime Minister. This time with the fact EZ are applying to operate LHR-BFS.
BD got court out with the LHR-AMS route. It announce the route well in advance and KLM and BA where waiting. EZ announce the BFS route and BD is there already.
Positive here. We ALL need joe public to get back onto planes. After the Gulf War BA did the Worlds Biggest Offer helping all airlines in one way or another....perhaps it now the EasyJets and Ryanairs to help stimulate the market this time?

[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: euroboy ]

Epsom Hold 2
7th Oct 2001, 05:44
I hope easyJet get the route. They can make money charging 35 when BA charge hundreds and make a loss. And I don't think there's much difference in service. A lot of business travellers don't even check bags in, I was a travel agent for years and half the time business accounts would book fares that were miles above the cheapest (and sometimes the most convenient) option, just so the passenger could rack up some FF miles at his (or her...usually his) employer's expense.

Having to claim bags and lug them to a different terminal instead of checking them right through is a pain in the arse but it could be sorted, to say EZY don't co-exist with posh (non riff-raff) airlines is nonsense, just cos they're at Luton in the UK doesn't mean they don't park next to BA, LOT, TAP, Iberia, MEA and Aeroflot et al at Madrid, Schipol, Athens or wherever.

Other than interlining bags and FF miles, there is absolutely no difference between low-cost airlines and bankrupt posh ones except the low-cost ones seem to be happier and the M&S sandwich you take with you tastes better than the crap BA / BMI (sorry "bmi") serve and charge 100 for.

akerosid
7th Oct 2001, 21:48
What's the fixation with Belfast. You know there is a well established international financial centre about 200 miles south of London which was deprived of its LHR route by BA last year, yet its demand for air travel seems unaffected by the current crisis. BMid seem interested, but surely EZY could have a look at Jersey if the Belfast market seems a little crowded now . . .

Yes, it's a small island, but the business traffic on the LHR route, plus the MANY passengers who currently need to take that Speedlink service from LGW would provide decent business for a JER-LHR route. Would 2 returns a day be out of the question?