A320 'severely damaged' at IST

[readywhenreaching]

It happened while the Airbus was pushed back from the gate, when it however deteched from the pushback vehicle. It ran rearwards until it hit a lampost with force causing heavy damage to the tail and left stabilizer. There are no reports about serious injuries...
Referring to pictures, it seems that Atlasjet may have lost its first A320.

check 'news' section at

J.A.C.D.E.C. - Jet Airliner Crash Data Evaluation Centre (http://www.jacdec.de)

cheers
readywhen

[parabellum]

The bad news is that unless you have engines running, if you are travelling backwards and apply the brakes the aircraft will, likely as not, sit on it's tail, the only cure is forward thrust, which these guys probably didn't have.

[Rainboe]

Who comes up with this nonsense about 'total loss'? Damage is superficial only! Any decent car repair shop could fix that. I would give it 2-3 weeks outside, rear pressure dome damage slightly more, but a loss? I don't think so. New stabiliser, tailcone (unimportant, non load bearing), APU....back on the road in less than 3 weeks! Does anybody seriously think the repairs to this shunt exceed scrap value of the aeroplane?

[Fargoo]

Am I missing something, I can't see a report or any photos on that site.

[eastern wiseguy]

JACDEC - Current News (http://www.jacdec.de/news/news.htm)


Fargoo go here 3rd item down :ok:

[hetfield]

The bad news is that unless you have engines running, if you are travelling backwards and apply the brakes the aircraft will, likely as not, sit on it's tail, the only cure is forward thrust, which these guys probably didn't have.been there, done that, but got no t-shirt

A321, full load, shear pin failed during push back, no engines running.

If you apply brakes very carefully you have a good chance to stop the beast within a few meters without tail contact.

[Fargoo]

JACDEC - Current News


Fargoo go here 3rd item down

Thanks for that link :ok:

Doesn't look too bad to me, can't see it being a total loss. I'd give it a bit more than Rainboes local garage fix though :)

[Rainboe]

Nonsense! A few new panels, and nothing a good Sears pop rivet gun and a bit of car body filler can't fix!

I discovered some bastard has already done that to my car! Nice paint job though.

[llondel]

Just make sure they use a double line of rivets if they're fixing the rear pressure bulkhead... Doesn't look too bad, I'm sure some of the catering truck incidents have done worse than that. If they can patch up the Gimli Glider and G-VSKY after landing with less than the regulation number of wheels, and the Swiss RJ at LCY, I'm sure they can fix this one.

[dubh12000]

Never mind the airbus, what about the old DC-3 reported below it! Cut in 2 by a hand grenade....:sad:

[Iceman49]

Like Hetfield said, you can stop the aircraft but you have to be very gentle
on the brakes or you will set it on the tail...had it happen on an icy ramp, with chocks in and engines off...ramp had a slope to it and the aircraft started rolling...just applied brakes very gently and the aircraft stopped.

[jackharr]

I used to be a Line Training Captain on F27 Friendships based at Leeds/Bradford.

The beginning of R/W 32 at LBA was (maybe still is) decidedly uphill. It was a trap for the unwary, especially in strong headwinds. I would brief to apply at least some power before releasing the brakes for take off with the added comment that if it did roll backwards, DO NOT USE BRAKES but catch it with power.

In an earlier part of my career when I flew C130 Hercules, it was standard procedure after a reversing manoeuvre to stop the rearward movement with power and NEVER with brakes.

Jack Harrison

[Super VC-10]

Hmmm, they may need to flatten out a few baked beans tins to get material for the patch! :ok:

[captjns]

Speed tape will fix that right up.:E

[52049er]

Have to say I don't think the tipping problem is as big as you might think. I've had this happen twice (320 & 319) and have spoken to 4 or 5 others on various types (744, 75/6) - all of whom stopped with judicious use of the brakes.

Sure, using the park brake to stop might do it, but does anyone have actual proof of an a/c ending on it's tail after a pushback problem? If it's such a problem, and shearing of pins happens fairly regularly, why have I never seen/heard of it happening?

[Conan The Barber]

It happened to me once many years ago. After push-back the tug was disconnected without telling me, so, as the apron had a noticable slope, the aircraft started rolling backwards. At this point I already had my hand on the parking brake handle waiting for the signal from the ground to set it.

For some reason I looked out the side window and notice we were moving backwards and, as a pure reflex, pulled the parking brake handle. I can tell you as the nose came up there was a lot of 'Oh crap' being recorded on the CVR.

It seemed to take forever for the nose to drop again. A very uncomfortable feeling I can tell you.

[rogerg]

There was a good one in the early days of the A320. Pushing back, shear pin broke, A/C kept going back, pilot said merde and applied the brakes, nosewheel left the ground. Computer said "we must be flying" and applied full power as we are to slow, you can finish the story!

[Reimers]

And yet another thread going to waste by people posting utter rubbish on the A320 who propably have yet to set a foot in its cockpit:

There was a good one in the early days of the A320. Pushing back, shear pin broke, A/C kept going back, pilot said merde and applied the brakes, nosewheel left the ground. Computer said "we must be flying" and applied full power as we are to slow, you can finish the story!

Alpha floor protection (as it is called on the Airbus) is inhibited below 100' RA, as the crew of the A320 in Habsheim found out, and right at the beginning of the A320 ops that was, too!

[SFCC]

You beat me to that one!:}

[chris.dever]

In the link above - just below the A320 entry - did you notice the Colombian DC3...

"NOTE: This accident marks the the 2nd Turbo DC-3 hull loss in Colombia within a day and the 4th hull loss of a DC-3 in 2009.(three of them were Turbo DC-3s)"

Someone is having an 'ANNUS HORRIBLUS' :sad:

[barit1]

"NOTE: This accident marks the the 2nd Turbo DC-3 hull loss in Colombia within a day and the 4th hull loss of a DC-3 in 2009.(three of them were Turbo DC-3s)"

Someone is having an 'ANNUS HORRIBLUS'

Breaking news from Long Beach - Douglas Aircraft Co. are ramping up deliveries of DC-3's to operators needing replacement a/c!

[52049er]

So, can anyone find evidence that an a/c has ever ended on it's tail after applying brakes whilst rolling backwards? Genuinely interested as I have a feeling it's an urban myth...

[parabellum]

No myth I assure you, it has happened to me and many others.

Try and imagine the scenario, you are pushing back and suddenly realise you can see the tug but are still moving, adrenalin kicks in and your very first reaction is to go for the pedals, it takes a very cool head to only apply gentle pressure, every case will be different, depending on a whole lot of variables. It had never happened to me before and never been discussed in training, suddenly the unbelievable happened! We were on a remote stand at LGW with our tail towards a very active taxiway on a Saturday morning.

If you don't mind me saying so 52049er you sound as though you have not been with the 'push-back' end of aviation very long, or not in the LHS, you are very dismissive of the possibility which leads me to think you have never, ever experienced it. When you get the chance ask those who will admit it.

[52049er]

Depends if you think 10 years is a long time:rolleyes: . As I said earlier in the thread, it's happened to me twice. What I'm looking for is not 'fortunately I applied the brakes gently' stories, but AAIB/NTSB links to 'Aircraft ended on it's tail during pushback'. We all feel it's likely to happen - but is this just 'intuition' or has it actually occurred.

Perhaps looking for empirical evidence is frowned upon?