Canada 3000 is Gone

[DashPilot]

Just announced. Unbelievable!!

Best of luck to those involved.


C3's Gone (http://www.newswire.ca/releases/November2001/08/c5591.html)

[Canuck_AV8R]

Just announced: :eek: :eek: :eek:

C3 will cease operations effective Friday AM.

My thoughts go out to all those friends and collegues at C3, Royal and Canjet.

Good luck fellas.
:( :( :(

[JoeCo]

Or the other one that i always thought was pretty close to reality was,

Q: How do you make a Million Dollars in Aviation?

A: You start with 2 Million

I can't believe how bad the industry is crumbling!! The thing is that this is probably the safest time to fly in the history of aviation, but the general public are just to dense to see that!!!!!

[Lurkio Linepilutt]

Very very sad news.

Not a good time to be out of work in the frozen north.

[newswatcher]

Dash Pilot, does this mean that the court order obtained in Ontario yesterday, under the Companies' Creditors Arrangements Act, is now redundant?

Yesterday, Angus J. Kinnear, the airline President said, "Delays in securing concessions essential to our restructuring have prompted the decision to seek the protection of the court. This step allows us to continue serving the travelling public while restructuring our operations to ensure the long term viability of Canada 3000."

[No comment]

So whats going to happen to the A330 that just arrived at LGW at 11:45? C3 going to have to scrape some money together to bring it back? It was only yesterday the A340 was impounded here...

[Arkroyal]

From the Canada 3000 website:
'Clearly, Canada 3000's decade of dedication to reliable, affordable air travel will continue well into the next millennium.'

From the BBC:

'Canada 3000 has ceased operations with immediate effect leaving passengers due to fly from Glasgow to Toronto stranded'

Here's hoping there's a bottom to the pit we're falling collectively in to. Good Luck all.
:( :(

[Tan]

Well, why are the Canadian public, airline unionized employees and the Government expressing surprise at the demise of C3?

The infrastructure costs of running a safe airline are huge. The traveling public, unions and government have to realize that low fares don't cover the real costs. The country does not have enough people to support two airlines.....

Airfares have to go up so that investors make a return on their investment. That's reality....

[poetpilot]

Joe Co, you state

"I can't believe how bad the industry is crumbling!! The thing is that this is probably the safest time to fly in the history of aviation, but the general public are just to dense to see that!!!!!"

As a humble pax (& private pilot, but that's of no consequence here) I would like to say that, yes, there is a "dense" element to the general public, but there's also some practical aspects and considerations to this whole sorry mess.

Post 911, anyone who WASNT dense would foresee the media circus and general panic-rousing that would go on. Indeed, these forums here were full of dire predictions about airlines almost within hours of that awful event.

Follow it through.... if I'm planning on sept 12th to buy airline tickets to XXX for a holiday, and if I'm not dense, I'll be worried primarily about whether the ticket I'd be buying would be worth a bean by the time I come to take a trip (ie the airline goes bust and I'm left with a scrap of paper in my hand).

Another aspect of this (it seems) is that airlines were in pretty bad shape generally speaking before the 911, and that there has arguably been a degree of cynical exploitation of the situation by the beancounters to justify radical restructuring of large, overweight corporate organisations. This isnt only happening in the airline industry.

As a final & somewhat cynical observation, I rather got the impression (working in the IT industry as I do) that a very large proportion of international business trips were effectively junkets and rewards for execs.

Technology & communications advances had already started the beancounters wondering why the heck everyone was flying around everywhere when they'd just invested in worldwide communications technologies. 911 has just brought all these aspects into conjunction and made everyone stop & re-evaluate.

....and god, I really do feel for you guys right now, honestly. if its any comfort at all, (well its cold comfort really) then my sector of IT has been hit very badly too, and my job prospects are not looking good post Xmas.

It seems that the terrorists have indeed achieved far, far more than the direct physical damage that they inflicted - but they have been assisted indirectly by the short-term, reactive, beancounting approach of company execs & corporate environments the world over. These people do not represent countries, principles, the value of people or democracies - they represent economic greed, selfishness, the balance sheets, the stock value & shortsightedness.

[Squawk 8888]

Tan, the other reality is that higher fares will empty the planes faster than the terrorists. None of the carriers can fly empty jets indefinitely- our only way out is to keep the fares down and operate fewer flights. And safety isn't the issue for the pax, it's the inconvenience being imposed by the futile "security measures" :rolleyes: now in place; the check-in process takes more than an hour for 45-minute flight so more travellers are choosing to drive.

[Tan]

Squawk 8888

C3's breakeven point was a 86% loadfactor. This is not a practical business plan... There is no way that low fares and full loads can support this industry.

I find people saying safety isn't the issue until there's an accident. Then their yelling about the safety issue and trying to sue everyone in sight. My goodness running a safe operation costs money...

The security issue is futile and everyone knows it. So why do we keep wasting valuable resources on it?

I suspect that the governments are practicing mass therapy on the population. Big brother is looking after us.

Pass the beer I going to need it....

[Squawk 8888]

Big brother is looking after us.Yeah, some job. Big Bro sez no to shutting down part of the airline, 36 hours later the whole thing goes down. Typical- they make it impossible for the private sector to do the job, then turn around and say "look, the private sector has failed so we'll have to step in." Look for re-regulation, higher fares and no new services without government permission. Thanks, Jean.

[Dockjock]

Did anyone else see the absolutely ridiculous article in the Globe & Mail on November 8 where reporter Jan Wong smuggled 11 different knives and box cutters onto 4 different flights?

Ya, thanks Ms.Wong. Just what we need right now to get our industry back on its feet is fearmongering and terrorist journalism. :mad:

Good luck to C3 guys and gals, we're all in this together.

[aspinwing]

TAN Old boy,
IMHO you have it absolutely backwards (Post #178.
Airlines have to provide a product that CUSTOMERS are willing to buy. Now there is a strange concept.
Having recently concluded a three year long- distance relationship - happily she is back home - with stops in Boston, Albany, Cleveland and Columbus I think that I know whereof I speak.
Rather than bore you with the gory details, suffice it to say, I avoid AC if there is a reasonable alternative. AC (and others) thinks their flight starts at ‘push back’ and ends with ‘engines off’. Hate to tell you but, my trip starts when I push the button on the garage door closer and ends when I get my feet up at the other end.
However, let me give you a couple of examples:
(CYYZ - KCMH) Why would anyone in their right mind use AC - disinterested CSRs, no idea if flight is early or late, lousy ramp service, etc. - when they could use Chatauqua Airways (AA connector) CSR - Sir, a/c will be on the be about 15 minutes late arriving but with a quick turn-round within about 5 minutes of sked. And, sir, would you like the exit row; damn right, I am 6’5”, and they don’t assign those seats unless they see that you are capable of opening the exit in an emergency. Since the SAAB 340 is walk on, the Ramprats greet you at the ramp door and take your carry-on for Skycheck. (With AC you bloody well schlep it to the back of the -8 yourself.) When you board the a/c its “Good afternoon, sir, it is nice to have you with us again.” Damn right. Good to be back.
(CYYZ - KBOS) Since time my time wasn’t all that pressing. ( We live 100+ kliks ENE of YYZ) We drove south of YYZ ( road abuts airport property) to Buffalo. Nice lunch overlooking Niagara vineyards, cruise through border crossing ( She is US citizen, I am Canadian), no long check-in line at KBUF. We go through security (pre-11 SEP) and watch ShuttleAmerica -8 arrive. I leave and have business meeting in Canada on way home. She arrives at Hanscom KBED - doors open to car <10 mins, try that at Logan KBOS.
She is going to FL next week to pick up mom and bring her back for the hols. Have to fly AC, only direct flight, as mom, at 89, doesn’t do cattle cars. Since time is not a big deal, my wife will stay over the Saturday night ( and keep the airline marketing wizards happy ) and visit other family members.
Most airline executives, and Robert Milton is a perfect example, haven’t had an original idea in years.
TAN, the airlines were on a very slippery slope; even before 11 SEP, it just was a bigger pin going into the bubble. Just like the department stores died trying to be all things to all CUSTOMERS - there is that funny word again CUSTOMER get it - CUSTOMER comes first - we usually shop at upscale stores - never buy ‘branded’ products - but have been known to shop at WalMart and Dollar Stores.
Air Canada was like a snake swallowing Canadian. If management couldn’t see the contraction coming they just had to be dumb or stupid or both. Canada 3000 expanding with that debt load also had to have management that was dumb or stupid or both.
While I feel for the folks on the street, the companies should be allowed to go under. Since there is a demand for air travel, Phoenixes will appear, hopefully with a better model. There is competition for the business travel market; video conference meetings - that technology is improving rapidly - , fractional ownership - who is going to put up with the airport hassle on a regular, weekly, monthly basis?. High - relatively high - speed train; why would I backtrack to YYZ - 90 minute drive - to go through a 2 hour check-in hassle - for a one hour flight to Montreal CYUL - to go through an incredible hassle there when in three-quarters of an hour I can be on a comfortable train - with legroom - and get off in the city centre. If both of us are going for, say, the weekend we drive - not a contest.
To finish my rant: CUSTOMER SERVICE at a reasonable price and then the shareholders can expect to be happy if not (let) someone else will do the job.

[aspinwing]

TAN Old boy,
IMHO you have it absolutely backwards (Post #178.
Airlines have to provide a product that CUSTOMERS are willing to buy. Now there is a strange concept.
Having recently concluded a three year long- distance relationship - happily she is back home - with stops in Boston, Albany, Cleveland and Columbus I think that I know whereof I speak.
Rather than bore you with the gory details, suffice it to say, I avoid AC if there is a reasonable alternative. AC (and others) thinks their flight starts at ‘push back’ and ends with ‘engines off’. Hate to tell you but, my trip starts when I push the button on the garage door closer and ends when I get my feet up at the other end.
However, let me give you a couple of examples:
(CYYZ - KCMH) Why would anyone in their right mind use AC - disinterested CSRs, no idea if flight is early or late, lousy ramp service, etc. - when they could use Chatauqua Airways (AA connector) CSR - Sir, a/c will be on the be about 15 minutes late arriving but with a quick turn-round within about 5 minutes of sked. And, sir, would you like the exit row; damn right, I am 6’5”, and they don’t assign those seats unless they see that you are capable of opening the exit in an emergency. Since the SAAB 340 is walk on, the Ramprats greet you at the ramp door and take your carry-on for Skycheck. (With AC you bloody well schlep it to the back of the -8 yourself.) When you board the a/c its “Good afternoon, sir, it is nice to have you with us again.” Damn right. Good to be back.
(CYYZ - KBOS) Since time my time wasn’t all that pressing. ( We live 100+ kliks ENE of YYZ) We drove south of YYZ ( road abuts airport property) to Buffalo. Nice lunch overlooking Niagara vineyards, cruise through border crossing ( She is US citizen, I am Canadian), no long check-in line at KBUF. We go through security (pre-11 SEP) and watch ShuttleAmerica -8 arrive. I leave and have business meeting in Canada on way home. She arrives at Hanscom KBED - doors open to car <10 mins, try that at Logan KBOS.
She is going to FL next week to pick up mom and bring her back for the hols. Have to fly AC, only direct flight, as mom, at 89, doesn’t do cattle cars. Since time is not a big deal, my wife will stay over the Saturday night ( and keep the airline marketing wizards happy ) and visit other family members.
Most airline executives, and Robert Milton is a perfect example, haven’t had an original idea in years.
TAN, the airlines were on a very slippery slope; even before 11 SEP, it just was a bigger pin going into the bubble. Just like the department stores died trying to be all things to all CUSTOMERS - there is that funny word again CUSTOMER get it - CUSTOMER comes first - we usually shop at upscale stores - never buy ‘branded’ products - but have been known to shop at WalMart and Dollar Stores.
Air Canada was like a snake swallowing Canadian. If management couldn’t see the contraction coming they just had to be dumb or stupid or both. Canada 3000 expanding with that debt load also had to have management that was dumb or stupid or both.
While I feel for the folks on the street, the companies should be allowed to go under. Since there is a demand for air travel, Phoenixes will appear, hopefully with a better model. There is competition for the business travel market; video conference meetings - that technology is improving rapidly - , fractional ownership - who is going to put up with the airport hassle on a regular, weekly, monthly basis?. High - relatively high - speed train; why would I backtrack to YYZ - 90 minute drive - to go through a 2 hour check-in hassle - for a one hour flight to Montreal CYUL - to go through an incredible hassle there when in three-quarters of an hour I can be on a comfortable train - with legroom - and get off in the city centre. If both of us are going for, say, the weekend we drive - not a contest.
To finish my rant: CUSTOMER SERVICE at a reasonable price and then the shareholders can expect to be happy if not (let) someone else will do the job.

[Tan]

aspinwing

Indeed you are entitled to your own opinion, actually, I personally wouldn't want to have you as a customer.

I've seen and listened to your type at parties and at work and IMHO you want first class service but are only willing to pay steerage class rates. If anything ever goes wrong, and it does, your kind protests the loudest.

I wonder how your customers feel about your customer service...

[gear-up]

To everyone at CANADA 3000, you have my heartfelt sympathy, You had a great airline,with a great bunch of people.
I had hoped to move over to Toronto next year, and hoped to work with you,
We are all in the poo at the moment,I can just hope that it will get better soon.
It is good to see how we all stick togeather at a time like this.
REGARDS.

[Ex NAV]

I think it is absolutely outrageous the way C3 management treated their operating staff,crew and passengers the UK. The local rep. in MAN knew nothing about it and nor did the outbound crew. The inbound Capt. arranged for himself to return on CO (free) and left the balance of his 11 crew to fend for themselves. CO gratiously offered them a ride as well as the stuck OB crew if the C3 management were not going to arrange. Full marks to CO - this is what makes this industry great.Shame on C3 management
:mad:
I would not wish this situation on my worst enemy (as I have been there before) and my sympathies and good luck to all the good folk at C3.

[Arkroyal]

Sorry, ex NAV, who are CO? :confused:

[Orca strait]

The high drama of the past few days may not be over yet :eek:

11:46 EST Friday, November 09, 2001

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Ailing carrier Canada 3000 , Canada's second-largest airline, believes it can restart operations, Transport Minister David Collenette said on Friday.

"(A few minutes ago) we were in touch with officials from Canada 3000 who contacted us. They do believe they can still operate, that parties are coming to the table, so this particular situation is just not finished," Collenette told parliament.

Canada 3000 abruptly stopped all flights on Friday, stranding thousands of passengers just hours after obtaining a creditor-protection order in the wake of failed talks with unions over job cuts the airline was demanding.

By KEITH McARTHUR
11:34 EST Friday, November 09, 2001

Air Canada's discount brand Tango is an anti-competitive weapon which led, in part, to Canada 3000's apparent failure, according to the federal Competition Commissioner Konrad von Finckenstein.

Mr. von Finckenstein said the Competition Bureau was poised to issue a cease and desist order against Air Canada's Tango brand this morning, but the move was eclipsed by Canada 3000's announcement late last night that it was halting all operations.

"We determined that Air Canada, by creating Tango and targeting the routes that Canada 3000 was flying on, was undertaking an anti-competitive act," Mr. von Finkenstein told The Globe and Mail today.

Mr. von Finckenstein said that if Canada 3000 is able to get its planes back in the air, the Bureau would be likely to go ahead with the cease and desist order.

"We tried to act as quickly as possible, but we could only do it so fast," he said.

Copyright © 2001 The Globe and Mail

[The_Banking_Scot]

Arkroyal,

CO ( Continental?)

I flew with Canada 300 LGW-YYZ last year ( stoping over in Halifax both ways.)Only problem was the 2 hour delay in clearing immigaration and customs due to having three flights land at the same time and only 5 immigration officers. Upon reboarding the Captain said " all we can do is apologise for the disgusting length of time it too you to clear customs today" and handed out comment cards.( I actually received a letter of apologies from Halifax airport)

A good flight for the price paid.Sorry to see them

Best wishes to everyone affected by this terrible news.

[citadel]

I'm sorry I couldn't give a lift to the Crew stuck at MAN this morning. All the very best; things will get better. VIR75.

[PaperTiger]

Did MAN impound the aircraft before or after CMM stopped flying ?

[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: PaperTiger ]

[penguin]

This is how I lost my millions. First, it was Wardair, then it was Canadian, and now C3000. Anyone wants free stock certificate as scrap paper? :mad:

[Rollingthunder]

They are busy re-organizing the company now. A few hours before announcing cessation of operations last night they were telling everyone it was business as usual and were encouraging bookings. Many pax flew out to somewhere during the course of Thursday.

Then a terse announcement - all shut down - customers are advised to now fend for themselves. Hundreds, nay, thousands of people and crew stranded across Canada and as far away as Australia, the UK, Caribbean.

So they spend a month reorganizing and start operating in a downsized (hate that word) form. After what management has just done to thousands of customers, do they really expect to be able to attract any future business? Damn poor show.

[Kubota]

...and 411A says?

So 411, here you have everything that you have been proselytizing about in your 1400+ posts:

Low (really low) salaries
Fuel-efficient aircraft (B757, A320/319, A330-200/A340)
Motivated staff
Good in-flight service
Good management (they are very good)
Cheap fares
Safe operation (no accidents)

Yet they still cease operations. So, oh guru of the skies, bless us with your synopsis. I can't wait.

[Ex NAV]

Yes, there is a A330 inpounded at MAN as well as another aircraft (think A330) at LGW :confused: :mad:
These actions were taken only after the "cease operations" announcement from C3

[ 10 November 2001: Message edited by: Ex NAV ]

[PaperTiger]

That's what I would have expected, but CMM press releases are saying they ceased operations because (unnamed) airports had seized assets. Like someone else said, there's a funny smell around.

[5552N0426W]

To you all at Canada 3000 I give you my sympathies and I know how you feel.

It's a cruel world out there but our industry are all feeling for each other.

Best of luck to you all.

[Silkman]

The aircraft at MAN, 'WB' had just arrived apparently when the shutdown was ordered yesterday morning. I bumped into the lovely Amanda,the CMM rep at MAN, at 0615 and she gave no inkling at all that things were this bad. Last night 'WB' was jammed in by the PIA 737 in Cockroach Corner.
Good luck to all the CMM staff, hope things work out for you guys.

[Willie Everlearn]

Ladies and Gentlemen
The demise of Canada 3000 has been months in the making. Right before our eyes, in fact.
As unfortunate as Canada 3000s demise may seem...
here is a company that went into 'overdrive' with impatience and the roof fell in.
Simply, the destiny of its' mediocre management.

It must be remembered that Canada 3000 Management were rushing around trying to execute no less than four business plans at the same time. Paying wages, leases, etc. to a workforce far beyond what was required. No matter how you slice it, a very costly move, even in the soundest of economies.
The merger with Royal into one, should have satisfied managements'lust to become number two in The Great White North. Unfortunately, this was not the case and now a number of quality people, talented people, dedicated people, are without work.

Been there. Done that.

No. I suggest the laurels are unwaranted here, for it was the staff, moreso than management, that made this company what it was. :)

...and there, but for the Grace of God, go you and I.
Good Luck and Best Wishes to all at Canada 3000. There will be a tomorrow.

[ 10 November 2001: Message edited by: Willie Everlearn ]

[Kubota]

Hi Willie

I disagree with your comment about "mediocre management" at C3. On the other hand, your profile says that your interest is "Tormenting serious individuals" so you probably didn't mean that, did you?

JL, AJK, DK, IR and the lads are good people with a viable dream that was snatched away by archaic protectionist policies for a money-losing dinosaur of a "National Carrier". If AC had been made accountable for it's squandered BILLIONS, I really do wander who would be around today.

The airline industry in Canada is a disgrace. One rule for AC, another variable playing field for the rest.

To paraphrase the chairman of VS... "Who will I fly with in Canada? Anyone who isn't AC."

[Poke Guy]

Kubota:

You sounded like another expert like Guv and 411A.

[baby1-11]

another sad day..best wishes to all in C3

[Kubota]

Poke...

*****, you're right! OK, time to put a sock in it.

411A and Guv...Brrrrrrr (shivers with fear)

[Tan]

Kubota

I guess it all depends on where you are seated at the round table on how you view the aviation situation in Canada if not the world....

Aviation is a mess in Canada partly because of government interference but that is only part of the problem. We don't have the population base to support two airlines, period. Niche players yes, major airlines no.

We are definitely a nation of complainers who want the government to look after us from cradle to grave, but we don't want to pay the price tag associated with that type of society.

Only in Canada you say, Pity....

[Dropp the Pilot]

At times like this we all look for small favours, so those at C3 should feel relieved that they were spared Kubota's usual business advice:

Prior to every rostered duty, each pilot must pretend to have a tummy ache, thus guaranteeing future prosperity for all....or something like that. It's even more nebulous if you follow his postings on Fragrant Harbour.

[Willie Everlearn]

Kubota

You're correct in understanding that I like to wind 'em up.

In all honesty I reckoned C3 management understood their lot in life. AK seemed to understand quite clearly as well there simply isn't the population base in Canada to sustain two large airlines. Or is this a recent revelation in light of what we went through with Canadian in recent times???
I think not.
By aggressively consuming Royal and CanJet, IMHO, the brain bubble burst in the board room of CT.
So, CT management clearly dropped the ball on this one even before Sept. 11th.
The end product of that airline rested squarely with the counter and cabin staff NOT management.

Hey.
It's only my perspective.

[Apollo]

I used to like hearing that old call sign....

Elite....


They had it for good reason.
Best of luck to the guys and gals.

[Rollingthunder]

TORONTO - After days of struggling to find a
way to get its planes back in the air, Canada's second-largest airline rolled to a dead stop Sunday as it was placed in bankruptcy.

Canada 3000 issued a news release late in the
day confirming that its board of directors, president and other corporate officers had
resigned – a common move before bankruptcy because it reduces the liability of individual executives.

An Ontario Superior Court judge has appointed Deloitte & Touche Inc. as "Trustee in bankruptcy" to supervise sale of the airline's assets.

[Tan]

Willie Everlearn

I’m afraid your assessment of C3 management and board of directors is accurate. It’s hard to believe after watching Cdn Int’l struggles with its acquisition spurge that C3 would repeat the same mistakes. Hasn’t management any airline experience at all? Its time the industry needs a headshake…

My thoughts are with C3 employee group who still has to feed the kids and pay the mortgages and live with their dreams shattered. The only upside to the current mess is that C3 will resurface under a new name in a few months. But as a niche player…

[Scud Runner]

Just exactly which niche do you think C3 will try to fill, if they are resurrected? Assuming you mean back to the charter biz, forever forgetting about the sched market, that would be a tough road to travel.

If (a really big IF) they could get the ball rolling again, by the time they do, the business from their major tour operators will be long gone to another carrier. Word on the street is that Skyservice and Air Transat are in competition to win the hearts of Signature, Conquest and the others, with SSV on the inside track, mostly because they don't own any tour operators themselves, and therefore not directly in competition with the tour operators.

Time will tell. Hope whomever wins the business will find some room for at least some ex-C3rs. They're good and loyal folks who deserve better than they got last week.

Scud

[Tan]

Scud

I was referring to the charter biz, but you're right, its going to be a tough road. Lets hope that there is a little fairness out there for the employees involved.

If the AC unions and management don't get their act together rather quickly, and bury their mutual attitude problems, they'll be next...

The investors are only interested in the bottom line and that's the new reality...

[ 13 November 2001: Message edited by: Tan ]

[Notso Fantastic]

Great sympathies to all at C3000. It's a tragic sight all these airlines dropping now.

I am fascinated at the lack of 'expert informed opinion' from such idiots as Guvnerd & 411B. Where are the 'experts' with instant opinions on everything ever ready to tell us how it should be done? Well it was done to their wishes this time wasn't it?

[darkstar_45]

Im not suprised Canada 3000 went bust. I flew out LGW- YYZ on the 07th Nov and the flight was terrible. Grim Faced cabin crew, zero legroom, a ridiculous 3-3-3 config on an A310 where I had the unfortunate aisle seat forcing carts and people to bump into me as they walked past.
If all flights are like that, No wonder they went under.
To make matters worse we were due to fly back on 11th Nov so we were starnded in YYZ. Went to the C3 info desk on 09th Nov when we heard about news to enquire about plans for pax that were stranded and got the answer 'there are no plans! make your own way back'!!! What sort of bloody service is that? - ok so they did stop operations that day and I dont know what the S.O.P for this sort of thing is but I would have at least thought they would have had a contingency plan for the stranded pax. This sort of 'oh well, we've ceased operations, sod the passengers' is appauling.
Then went to BA to explain predicament, they wanted to charge me full whack for 1 way £500!! same applied to KLM.
Very nicely, Air Canada let us have a ticket for 50% reduction of the normal price which in the end cost me £220 and was an excellent service- top marks to Air Canada!

[darkstar_45]

Im not suprised Canada 3000 went bust. I flew out LGW- YYZ on the 07th Nov and the flight was terrible. Grim Faced cabin crew, zero legroom, a ridiculous 3-3-3 config on an A310 where I had the unfortunate aisle seat forcing carts and people to bump into me as they walked past.
If all flights are like that, No wonder they went under.
To make matters worse we were due to fly back on 11th Nov so we were starnded in YYZ. Went to the C3 info desk on 09th Nov when we heard about news to enquire about plans for pax that were stranded and got the answer 'there are no plans! make your own way back'!!! What sort of bloody service is that? - ok so they did stop operations that day and I dont know what the S.O.P for this sort of thing is but I would have at least thought they would have had a contingency plan for the stranded pax. This sort of 'oh well, we've ceased operations, sod the passengers' is appauling.
Then went to BA to explain predicament, they wanted to charge me full whack for 1 way £500!! same applied to KLM.
Very nicely, Air Canada let us have a ticket for 50% reduction of the normal price which in the end cost me £220 and was an excellent service- top marks to Air Canada!

[stagger]

darkstar_45,

All Canada 3000 flights aren't like the one you describe. The A310 you travelled on was one of those acquired from Royal when they took over that operation a year or so ago. I agree that the 3-3-3 arrangement is ridiculous but I believe that there were plans to refit these aircraft with interiors that matched the reat of the Canada 3000 fleet.

The 757s were a bit cramped too but Canada 3000 A330s are really not that different to Air Canada's A330 economy cabin in terms of comfort. 2-4-2 with similar seat pitch.

[Willie Everlearn]

Tears of disappointment and of shattered dreams are flowing down the cheeks of many ex-employees of the now defunct Canada 3000.

The anger of this group seems to have superceded common sense and, for reasons perhaps not that difficult to understand, they march and protest its’ (predictable) demise. Choosing to blame government instead of Canada 3000 management. Have they nothing better to do?

Humans seem to always take the easy way out. For, there is comfort in numbers. Especially, at times like these. Why this group of less than 5,000 would or should EXPECT the government to ‘make it better’ clearly illustrates how little they knew of or understood the Canadian airline industry, it’s evolution, and history. A history which has yet again, repeated itself.

How naive?

Recent events have clearly shown government intervention is not in the cards. Or was this group not paying attention?

Free market economy, investor confidence, and customer support should prevail and if Canada 3000 are to re-emerge, it should not be on the backs of the taxpayer. The Canadian traveler simply doesn’t give a stuff about WHO provides the competition and Canada 3000 is no more the object of the travelers affection than the next guy.

It’s simply a matter of price.

To suggest we need Canada 3000 is preposterous.
To suggest we need a Canada 3000 to compete with Air Canada is ridiculous.
We need instead, a carrier to do what Canada 3000 did best which was to sustain a strong and viable charter industry where they were clearly number 1. Just as Wardair should have done a little over a decade ago. The lessons however, seem not to have been learned.

Canada 3000 management have instead chosen to take their comparisons to Wardair to heart and joined them in the Hall of Famous Ex’s.

Sadly, others are likely to join them within the year.

Whatever IS this world coming to?

:eek: