Redundances on British Midland Regional 146 fleet?

[flybyvelcro]

I have just had a telephone call from a close friend in Birmingham telling me that the whole Lufthansa 146 operation is coming to an end on November 30, and that all the 146 pilots are being made redundant.
Does anyone out there have any further info on this? What a sad time we are all going through at the moment-will it ever end.
To all those pilots affected, my heart felt sympathies.

[Arkroyal]

My info is that the contracts will run to completion, but will not be renewed :(

[BENDIX TIE BAR]

No such luck Arkroyal! Aircraft stop flying for LH on 30 November, may be work for one aircraft at the moment out of MAN to BRU. Contract was due to end August 2002. Redundency talks start in earnest on Monday with the management and crew council. If you think they will keep us on till the contract was due to end with no work you may be somewhat mistaken.

Good luck to us all in the times ahead. :( :confused: :eek:

[Nubboy]

Dear God, is there no end to the potential misery? I was at a bmi mainline presentation yesterday (like ARKROYAL?) and came away with the impression that the contracts would run, but not be renewed. I hope this is so. Having been with a company that went bust (two weeks after a management presentation to tell us of the expansion plans) I feel for you all.

[Arkroyal]

Indeed, Nubboy, that's where my info was gleaned.

So how much of the rest of the silver tongued diatribe will turn out to have been so economical with the actuals.

Heartfelt sympathy for the crews if this is true :mad:

[Ringwayman]

Their website says that they will launch 3 daily MAN-BRU services from 12th November using a 146 (and a 3 daily LBA-BRU run using ERJ145s)

Ringwayman

[le loup garou]

How many 146's do they have?

[KADS]

5 146:s

[le loup garou]

Thanks KADS

[JB777]

Just seen the bmi home page (http://www.flybmi.com). Click-on & check out the 'news' banner about the BRU routes.
BHX my have some good news for the 146 if this goes ahead ! ;)
Also bmi have asked for slots out of MAN to Dublin in case if Aer Lingus goes under. :p

[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: JB737 ]

[Indianna]

Yes,we're all being made redundant. We heard on 8 Nov that consultation had started on 6 Nov. Everyone on the fleet except 4 management pilots and 4 management cabin crew (more than 100 people) are more than 99% likely to become redundant on 6 Dec.

And just in case anyone is thinking of joining bmi regional in the future, be aware that the "last in first out" rule does not apply in this company. We were all recruited as permenent staff of the company temporarily posted on the 146 for the Lufty contract. All of us who want to expected to be transferred to the Embraer fleet at the end of the contract. But a clause in the "Memorandum of Agreement" says that the company can choose the "pool" from which any redundancies are to be made. Which means seniority counts as nothing. In one case a cabin crew has worked for the group for 8 years (transferred to 146 18 months ago) will now lose her job. Loyalty pays???

As for the Man-Bru route, I believe the company intends to invite those in the redundant workforce who may be interested to apply on a short term (one week? one month?) contract basis. Based in Manchester.

We're not likely to be offered any job share/unpaid leave alternatives as had been offered to the Embraer crews. Consultation continues but I fear for the worst. A very long winter holiday is looming, but at least none of us will have to work this X'mas. :p

[nitefiter]

Indianna
Sympathies with all you 146 crews and ca,s out there,what you should learn about this company is, if you want a guarantee,buy a television,if you want loyalty get a Labrador.

[Indianna]

Thanks Nitefiter. I know I should have learned by now, after 2 redundancies in 2 years. But I am a naive person who still believes in the fundamental good of human nature, and Santa Claus!

PS. I'd love a labrador.

[KADS]

Tell me about it. I've had two redundancies in a month(!) What a wonderful world it is.... :)

[ 15 November 2001: Message edited by: KADS ]

[VIKING9]

All this doom and gloom is getting me down. Who wants to start an airline and take on the routes that are being lost by the big boys downfall. All we need is money !!! There must be someone out there with a few pennies !!

daft as it may seem - I'm serious :o

[Stagnation Point]

EICAS don't stiffle a man with a good idea, all the crews could own a little piece of the pie and see how hard they would be willing to work then. Viking I wish you well.

I can't see that if LH were making money onteh routes then why can't bmir just keep flying them and take the profit, if they aren't making money then I guess it would be fool hardy to continue with them. What are the loadings like on the routes that are being dropped?

[VIKING9]

EICAS - now there's a man with NO forward thinking. LH were making money on the STN routes (albeit a small amount) but they can't be seen by the Unions to be supporting wet lease operations when they have just parked 43 of their own machines.

There IS money to be made in aviation right now despite the mega changes that are going on all around us. There are plenty of experienced crews, plenty of airframes and plenty of routes to be flown. All it takes is for some entrepeneur to come along and realise the potential for a small carrier.

Vikings did indeed dream, and it did them no harm either......

[zoru]

VIKING9

this might just be the time for you to contact ......The Guvnor!

what a golden opportunity for him to dazzle us with his business acumen?

Shurley shome mishtake....

[VIKING9]

zoru - er I think I'll pass on teaming up with The Guv but thanks for the offer. I'll go it alone...... :rolleyes:

[The Guvnor]

The Guvnor is unable to confirm - or deny - reports that he's been looking at 146s for a regional operation. Nor is he able to deny that he has recently been offered a number of incredibly cheap multi-engine aircraft and is currently in discussions with several operators about AOC cover. :D :D :D

[Bash]

There's this thing called a scope agreement so even if bmi could make a fortune by operating a 146 on a route (highly unlikely) they can't. You can thank BALPA for that one. If someone thinks they can set up and manage an airline then I wish them the best of luck. If you've got enough money to finance it yourself you don't need to work anyway. If you can convince someone else to then you've got one hell of a business plan and nothing to lose, so go for it!

[The Guvnor]

The Bash - spot on, mate: agreeing to those scope deals were absolute insanity on the part of the airlines; and it's times like this that prove it. Look at some of the US carriers which wanted to replace unprofitable mainline aircraft with economically viable - but smaller - aircraft; the unions went ballistic over it. Those people would seemingly rather the company went out of business than be flexible over things like this! :mad: :eek: :mad:

[Indianna]

Bash, the scope clause was done behind our backs. I don't know if anyone on the 146 realise it was there until recently.

That apart, while the crews can all see how full the stn flights are, and wonder why we can't do them ourselves, I heard our management thought it would not be the right thing to operate those routes as it would mean competing with our Star Alliance partner. Yet LH have been giving work to Flightline the last few weeks. Some partner!! :confused:

[alterego]

Bash
If we had been in the union then we would have had a say in the scope clause and not just been told it was now in place. The Crew Council is a complete and utter joke even more so now than before!

Donnington have squashed every good idea put to them, with even PY & WH are saying that any ideas might not fit the Groups future plans.

You maybe alright but some of us may never work in this industry again. We've been treated very badly.

Any idea that keeps me and my colleagues in a job must be listened to and checked.

Good luck to anyone who tries to get something positive out of this!

[VIKING9]

Think you will find they (BMr) are in it for themselves now. Watch your backs...... There has to be better things out there !!

[Bash]

If only it was so simple and straight forward as some people think. We are all pawns in a great game that nobody understands completely. I don't know who the various contributors are here but there are many individuals who poured scorn on the offer of an ERJ rating just six months ago. That doesn't mean they are wrong to want the job now but it illustrates how we all, including me, interpret events according to our own personal circumstances and ambitions. Events beyong our control change the perspective totally. What seemed to some people an attempt to trick 146 pilots into accepting transfers onto the 145 a few months ago would look like a pretty good offer now. Does anyone really believe BALPA would have considered for one minute the views of bmir pilots when demanding a scope agreement? That agreement was made to prevent bmir pilots taking bmi jobs. Fair enough. Whether you believe it has saved jobs or cost them depends on where you are now. I personally think it makes no difference to jobs but restricts the company's ability to react to change. That may cost jobs in the future at both companies. I can't see how it can help to create a single pilot job ever.

The best hope for any pilot wanting to work for bmir is that the ERJ program starts again sometime in the future. If someone else is recruiting for 737, Airbus or even 146 a lot of those soon to be laid off wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, even if it offered the security that everyone would give their right arm for now. We suffer from very short term memory and we believe what we want to believe, even when the truth is staring us in the face. I am truly sorry the 146 is finished and I'm even more sorry about those folk who are losing their jobs. Hitting out at those who make the decisions and who are still in work is natural and if it helps to get people through the hurt then it's maybe a good thing.

[ 18 November 2001: Message edited by: Bash ]

[MaximumPete]

Bash,

I agree with all your points. I hope things get sorted out soon.

MP

[alterego]

The trouble with the offer to transfer to the ERJ wasn't the aircraft or the 145 guys. It was purely that we were not given enough facts such as basing, roster patterns, etc. I said this at the time.

The trouble now is that we are still not being told all the facts, at a time when there is so much uncertainty, management are being as secretive as ever. It might be that they don't know anything but their past idea has been to treat us like mushrooms. Now they must come clean. That's Donnington & Aberdeen.

[Bash]

Alterego

Basing is in the hands of the crew council and no-one knows where future bases for any aircraft will be. Look at the Stansted experience on the 146 for example. Roster patterns are also a moveable feast but if you wanted to know what they were like at the time you could have asked the rostering department. The majority, not all, of 146 pilots saw bmir as a way onto the Airbus with bmi. That was all they were interested in and some individuals argued long and hard, on this very site, that they should be given preferential treatment. That door has been closed for now and what's worse is the fleet has had the rug pulled from under it. I cannot see any hidden agenda. Just a lot of bad luck and some short sightedness. You see plots and schemes everywhere but the facts are there for all to see. What is it that management must come clean about? You should be specific. What you are doing by making vague accusations is creating doubt in the minds of people who have enough to worry about already.

[alterego]

Bash
You miss my point. When WH asked if we would want to transfer to the 145, we weren't told if we would be bonded, have a drop in wages, be moved, take home less duty pay. In other words we couldn't make a descision based on the information at the time.

Now of course is a different story but there is still not enough information. Messers Crosland and Mcarthy do not appear to care about the 146 as they are very conspicuous in their silence.

We will never know if BALPA would have helped our cause with the scope clause but they could not have done any worse!

There is no pint in calling people like WH names.

[Bash]

Tosh? Here's some facts.

The CLH (not LH!) contract would have begun to run down in March but would not have ended until August next. Until last September a further extension seemed likely.

It was stated by management that when the contract ended they predicted employment for all those who wanted it would be available on the 145. At the time the transfer to bmi was running (seven last spring, seven to go this autumn and more this spring), and other airlines were recruiting hard. The biggest concern was where to find enough crews, (captains in particular), for the new aircraft. It was a totally realistic proposition that all who wanted it would get a place on the 145 as and when the 146 ran down.

One assumes they would have been treated like the Saab transfers. It is obvious they would have been bonded and have to join the base bid system. They would also have been bound by the 12 months since latest type rating rule for bmi transfer. The pay deal would have virtually closed the gap between the two fleets by then. No big mystery there.

That they were a special case was a peculiar notion held by a few 146 pilots and probably the one that made them most unpopular.

While the majority got on with the job a minority shouted the odds about how they should be given preferential transfers to bmi. It was a commonly stated view that the "Barbie Jet" was a backward career move.

No-one was conned or lied to but some weren't in touch with reality and could only hear the sound of their own braying.

As for the crew council. One of those being criticised now did all the research for that 145 pay deal. He was involved in the negotiations and was also present at a meeting convened because some people felt the former chairman had sold the 145 pilots out. He was the one who kept his cool.

Finally, if you want to name someone else on this site use your own name to do it. That way if you libel them you will have to face the consequences.

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: Bash ]

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: Bash ]

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: Bash ]

[alterego]

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: alterego ]

[alterego]

BASH

FACT- The formal offer of employment states that it is a Lufthansa Contract not Cityline.

FACT- The formal offer of employment states that the contract runs for 30 months. It doesn't state that this could be cut short or that part of the contract runs out in March.

FACT- The formal offer of employment states that we are free to apply to transfer at any time. Not restricted as is actually the case.

Now perhaps if you had read that letter you may, know the facts a bit better than you think you do. I am quoting from actual documentation!

[Bash]

I am more than happy to answer any questions concerning the accuracy of what I've said. I'm afraid that scatter gun aspertions are impossible to reply to.

So to answer your specific criticisms of my text.

1. It may be that the contract is with LH rather than CLH. If so I stand corrected but I don't think this is really relevant. Pointless me mentioning it in the first place so I apologise.

2. 30 months is correct. That takes it to next August. I think that makes November 30th a bit more than a "little earlier than first thought".

3. 146 pilots could apply for transfer to bmi anytime. Many did. They just couldn't go until they met the transfer criteria. Just like everyone else.

If I've said anything else that is incorrect please be specific. Sweeping generalisations sound good but contribute very little. I appear to be in a discussion with two people here. In an earlier post I asked what it was they felt was being held back from them. The question still hangs. We all know you're upset but what exactly is it that you want? If all you need is to vent your anger and frustration then that's fine but don't do it by having a pop at named individuals. Just because someone doesn't see things your way doesn't make them a legitimate target for a slagging off. If there is something specific that you feel should have been done for you then let's hear what it is. That might turn this into a constructive exchange.

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: Bash ]

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: Bash ]

[alterego]

Can you confirm that the seniority list is not a company list, it is a Crew Council list, as we have been told at our redundancy meeting? If so the council have blocked my transfer, not the company
I think that the time has come to stop playing and try and find something positive out of this.
Has anybody got any ideas how to save the jobs that are going?

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: alterego ]

[VIKING9]

Either way guys, there's a lot of unhappy teds who are going to be out of work very soon. Rather than slag them in saying "he said this she said that" why not try and help your workmates (and I use that term lightly) find alternative employment, like I am. There was always too much bitching and moaning when the 146 fleet arrived. Lets face FACT. The 146 crews were NEVER well received by many alledged top bods within the four walls at ABZ.

Now then, give us all a break and help these guys and girls.

[MaximumPete]

Most things in life are true. It's just the facts that get altered!

Good luck to all of you guys/gals

MP

[Billy Boy]

Companies don`t have loyalty, only humans have feeling!

[JCB 1]

On the contrary, it interests me (non-bmi) a great deal.

[Bash]

From the above it's clear the one thing we all would like is for no-one to get made redundant. If anyone has a business plan that can make that happen he had should send it to ABZ pronto. Unfortunately that requires a bit more than the understandable desire to preserve one's job. Ringing up and suggesting that Plymouth to Timbuctou would be a brilliant route doesn't constitute a business plan. The fact that bmir operates routes on behalf of bmi means you can suggest as many "licenses to print money" as you like but unless the commercial folk at bmi decide a route is viable it won't happen. The same applies to fleets, if bmi don't want it bmir won't operate it. This brings me back to my original load of "utter tosh". If you want to work for bmir in the future your best hope is on the ERJ 145/135. The best chance of that happening is if difficult decisions are made now on the grounds of objectivity and pragmatism. Once taken they should be implemented in the most generous and compassionate way possible. Trying to stall the inevitable will achieve nothing other than to further endanger the future well being of the company.

The 146 fleet was set up for CLH. They don't want it any more. It's all over bar the shouting. If I'm wrong about that I'll be delighted. So delighted that I'll buy every 146 driver in bmir a beer if something unexpected turns this situation round.

My understanding is that the seniority list is controlled and administered by the crew council.

[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: Bash ]

[alterego]

Unfortunately for us on the 146, the scope clause prevents s from working any scheduled route as we are 5 abreast seating. Once again not being BALPA recognised has cost us. This is because we had no voice when the scope clause was put in place.
So BASH is safe he still has a job. We don't.

[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: alterego ]

[Vortillion]

alterego,

I hear that BASH will bring a "chosen few" 146 pilots across to the 145 with him. Any truth in this?

Your absolutely right on the scope clause, if your not in the negotiation you don't have a say in the decision.

[VIKING9]

EICAS - Now that is more like it :o

[flappless]

"The futures bright the futures not scope clauses"

The future is indeed brighter for many because of the scope clauses. The lemmings are those at bmir who decided against recognition - look where it has got them. At the moment my BALPA subs are my best investment. At times like this they are likely to remain so. Use your remaining brain cell to think about it for a minute and you will come to the same conclusion. As for AR's quote in the local rag mag - just shows have badly informed he is.

[nitefiter]

flapless
There are pilots in bmir who choose to be BALPA members,we have not chosen one way or the other about recognition, only that we need a working crew council anyway, even if we do join.Those individual members of BALPA were not consulted about the scope agreement being levied against us and this has led to a bit of a nasty aftertaste.How can BALPA represent the best interests of both sides when they are activly working against us already? :confused:

[flappless]

nitefiter,

bmi and bmir are separate company's. bmi's scope agreement is the result of the bmi members cc and bmi pilots taking the lead and protecting the interest of bmi pilots. There was NEVER any requirement or need for bmi pilots to look at the interests of bmir pilots - why would there be, they work for different companies. You need to ask why, whoever it is, that represents you did not have the foresight to see what was about to happen. At the time it did not require a degree in rocket science to work it out. Please do not even suggest it is BALPA's fault and how can they properly represent you. BALPA is its members - nothing more and nothing less. Get yourself a properly elected and representative company council and see how they can work on your behalf to represent your interests. :confused:

[Chump]

Eicas,

Some interesting points but.....

1/ The scope clause protects me (bmi) and believe it or not, you (bmir?). Fine, I've got no problem with you flying one of our airbus's or boeing's (in fact we'd be glad to have you along) but I'd much rather you did it for £44k than £28k. If you start flying a mainline aircraft for £28k I'll start to get worried. I'm sure Sir MB & AR would love to have you flying it for that kind of money but if easyJet & Go can turn a profit paying similar salaries to bmi as at present then there's no reason for bmi to pay less.

Without the scope clause I can see the 737 fleet coming across to bmir. Great you say till they base you at LHR on £28k. Hmm, let's see, that won't even allow you to buy a 1 bed flat in Hounslow. Or better still, why do the job for less than your contemporaries? Because I can see no other reason for bringing the fleet across to bmir. Maybe you have a private income from selling double glazing in a past life and your flying job is only a hobby but some of us need our salaries for mortgages etc etc.....

2/ You seem to vehemently hate us mainline pilots, is this purely down to the scope clause or is there some hidden agenda? Do you really want to see us all flying for bmir salaries? At least bmi salary scales give your cc some leverage.

3/ As you said BM management are acting like pit managers at the moment. But why succumb to them? Who said the scope clause was to benefit customers or the shareholders? It's to benefit us, the pilots, or don't you get it?

Hugs & Kisses Eicas ;) :p ;)

[ 25 November 2001: Message edited by: Chump ]

[nitefiter]

flapless
You seem to have missed my point.I never mentioned bmi pilots looking after our interests nor did i blame BALPA, you said that "BALPA is its members",exactly right ,so why didnt they inform the said individuals within bmir about what was going on.I think that for the subs they charge you should get a bit more than a poxy diary refill.
My question was and still is how can they (BALPA) best represent both sides?, nobody(including you) has ever answered this. :confused:

[VIKING9]

Will the slagging ever stop :mad:

[allthenines]

What is the real reason for CLH terminating the contract with BMC? I gather Flightline are still working for Lufthansa with their 146's. Will they be getting the work? I gather they have a few aircraft sitting around, even though they are painted in Swissair colours at the moment! :confused: :rolleyes:

[VIKING9]

CLH were never impressed with BMC. That IS fact, despite what the warlords in ABZ say. Flightline won't be with CLH for too long either.

[Bash]

At the risk of setting off another round of Bash bashing it might be useful to fill in a little background information.

When the current crew council came into being there was a feeling that if mutual trust could be built between management and the pilot representatives a BALPA recognition ballot could be held without a managemement/pilot schism. The then chairman, now 146 fleet manager, approached BALPA (Assistant Gen Sec. now North of the Border) with just that suggestion. He was greeted with little short of hostility and told that BALPA would be pushing for a Scope Agreement to restrict BMC operating any aircraft over 50 seats to stop them taking BM jobs. When asked, the Gen Sec said that BALPA would always side with the majority in any conflict of interest. He stated that there would be a recognition vote very soon and the crew council should cease all contact with management. Good advice seeing as the pay negotiations were about to start. Those were the ones where we got our 145 seniority back and the rates went up by a fair smack. Following his departure the new Gen Sec came to a meeting with the CC Chairman and BMC management. He asked if the Crew Council would be prepared to stand for a BALPA council. When told most would not, he suggested that if the CC and management didn't encourage people to leave BALPA he would be happy to continue with the status quo. He said that they were pretty busy right then and were not really looking for any more recognition ballots. It was a good job the CC had not followed the previous advice!

So where did the employment protection agreement (Scope) come from? It was always on the agenda for BALPA and the CC had warned it was coming. I think it would have come in whether bmir recognised BALPA or not. The wishes of the larger group would have prevailed. I could be wrong but if things had gone to plan it wouldn't have made any difference. The long term plan was a career structure that offers pilots a ladder from first job to retirement. Provided those already on the ladder are not undermined of course. That was being built and hopefully still will be although the row over the 'seven' may well set that back a bit. In times like these it's easy to blame everybody else. Some at bmi blame BALPA for allowing the transfer agreement to protect the seven. Some at bmir blame BALPA for the scope agreement. Some blame the CC for not stopping it. Obviously a few blame individuals who have stood up and tried to do what they thought was right. I could say I blame those who sit on their a*ses and moan but can't be bothered to lift a finger. But I don't.

I blame over capacity in the market combined with high costs and a sudden loss of confidence by the public, management and financial markets. All the side issues, while hugely important to the individuals effected, are just side issues. And yes, it easy to say that when you still have a job, for the time being anyway. Are those still in work supposed to be ashamed of the fact?

[Gibbon Tickling Fan]

Why all the fuss over scope clauses no bmi pilot could have a problem with a 146 operating Man-Bru, as this is operated by a stby a/c that has already been operating bmi and bmir routes, it is a stand in until bmi can put a fokker on the route, this is not about taking bmi jobs at all as the 146 would only be filling in for 3 months.

[Bash]

GTF That is precisely the point. Surely the Scope Agreement was never intended to be used in this way. It's about long term job protection and not short term obstructionism. The problem is we live in emotional times.

[146LUKE]

Why don't we ask the BMI union reps if we can use 146 Aircraft on scheduled routes provided that this does not affect mainline crews, in other words we don't take routes from them but do routes such as MAN- BRU & LBA-BRU that they would not do anyway?

[Best Western]

Slightly off topic,

but who owns the 146's, and when does the next lease re-negociation come up for discussion.

Could this be BMI-R attempting to get a better deal out of the owners?

[146LUKE]

Best Western

BRAL own 2 of the A/c, Faores owns another, not sure where the others are from but I am sure that BMI or BMIR don't want them. Otherwise I would n't have had my reduncy interview last week.

Merry Christmas to all.

[theunknown]

can anybody confirm / deny that we have work for another month...all be it lots of sbys?? :confused:

[more tea captain ?]

:eek: you will get to know the answer to that one when the letter saying "terribly sorry if you have made other arrangements but we require you to cancel them and in the meantime kindly ignore all that has been said to you" arrives (allegedly), suppose we are all expected to to say whoopee.
On the plus side it's (allegedly) another month with a roof over our heads, and I'm sure they are trying hard to keep things sweet, but it would be nice to learn it from the company rather than the cleaners ! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: more tea captain ? ]

[Sagittarius Rising]

Maybe someone(perhaps the goatee non wonder boy?) could answer the following;
(1) Are flightline operating the MAN-MUC and BHX-MUC flights on behalf of bmi's Star Alliance partner Lufthansa?
(2) Why are bmi operating a 5-abreast Fokker on Lufthansa/bmir flights?
(3) Are there people off the now defunct Saab awaiting Emb-145 courses, who are less senior to people on the now defunct 146.If so surely they should be offered the course.
(4) If for the Mainline transfer the date of joining list was the be all and end all,how come it counts for nothing now.

[alterego]

Sagi'

You know as well as I that our fleet manager won't answer you! All he's done since day one is demoralise the fleet.
I've heard the rumours of Flightline doing the LH work, in our place but cannot confirm it.
The SAAB guys were promised 145 ratings when they joined- according to the 145 Fleet manager at the redundancy meetings in BHX.
The Fokker can do 5 abreast as the scope clause only affects BMIR and the Fokker is BMI operating for BMIR.
In short Stu has a job you don't!

[V1RO8]

:cool: Dear Sagittarius
Perhaps the following might help.
1. No
2. The Fokker fleet carries some of the
most senior dinosaurs bmi have to offer.
3. Yes. All Saab fleet Txf to 145
irrespective of start date.
4. What suited ABZ(Uncle Bill) then does
not suit now. It's my ball...

For your info The Pool for redundancy(The entire 146 fleet) was chosen by two members of the crew council, both on the 145 fleet, before the council members on the 146 fleet were notified of Lufty pulling the plug.

The non wonder Goatee being one of these. To put things into perspective he chose what Bill wanted him too, he has an opinion as long as Bill gives it to him, he was told that if he did a good job on the council(ie screw the workforce)it would reflect well when commands came up, hey it worked for the last chairman, he got Fleet Manager on a fleet he wasn't rated, a move to a base next to his home and a pay rise! :mad:

[alterego]

It would have been nice to see my Fleet manager at the redundancy meeting but alas he was too busy to visit. It would have been nice for the HR man to turn up as well but at least he found time to send a fax!

[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: alterego ]

[VIKING9]

What a load of B@LLS from ABZ - as usual. :rolleyes:

[crab]

V1RO8

Could you please enlighten me as to why you consider the fokker fleet to be manned by dinosaurs.Is it because you consider them to have better terms and conditions than yourself,or are they overpaid underworked survivors from the ice ages?Maybe a touch of greeneye here?

[MaximumPete]

V1RO8

I've been called lots of things in my aviation career spanning over 35 years but I think I'm a few million years short to be called a dinosaur.

From the Collins Gem English Dictionary:-

Dinosaur: extinct reptile, often of gigantic size.

I'm not "extincting" till the end of Feb 2002, hopefully!

As for Reptile from the same source: Cold-blooded, air-breathing vertebrate with horny scales or plates.

Sorry , just looked and can't find any scales or plates.

Off to play in the garden!

MP ;)

[more tea captain ?]

:mad: :mad: the only extinct around these parts is a roster sheet :mad: :mad:

[World Traveller]

MAN-MUC is operated by Augsburg Airways Dash 8 (series 400 big long thing) as of this weekend, I believe. Unerstand the bmiR 146's are still at BHX.

WT

[more tea captain ?]

:rolleyes: ok boys and girls, the latest rumour from the ramp; engineers have told the cleaners that there will be BAe146 technical support at a certain location not too distant from Derby until February.
Further info that may prove of interest is that Flightline may well have a better relationship with Lufty that we have been led to believe.. watch this space :eek: :eek:

[VIKING9]

Maximum pete - so the definition is right then hey ?? :rolleyes:

[MaximumPete]

V9

Which bit?

Cold-blooded - You don't know me

Vertebrate - I hope so!

Back to the telly, dicovery wings looks good tonight.

MP ;)

[Sagittarius Rising]

Thanks for the replies. Apparently there are 5 flightline 146 on 'C' checks down at Southend.............?

[Capt.Paul Skinback]

Last time I was up at EMA (for the Mainline transfer interview-what a complete waste of time that was!!!!) I have to confess I thought I'd walked into the Star Wars bar!! Right on V1RO8!

[MaximumPete]

Capt.

Not been there yet!

What's the beer like?

Thirsty MP :)

[simandall]

The beer's green Pete. Lots of slightly odd and very stroppy pilots pilots hang out there, two heads is standard and the odd extra limb or eye is not unusual. Fair bit of in-breeding by the look of them. Lots of ugly looking ships outside. Wings stuck on upside down, more engines than you can shake a stick at. You know the sort of thing ....

There used to be a place like it in Hamburg. The Dorint I think they called it.

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: simandall ]

[jetgirl]

5 flightline 146s? Those would be ones with red tails and hastily scrubbed out SR markings then..... (well 4 of them, plus 3 others sat on the ramp doing nowt). Not sure what this has to do with LH or BMIr though.

Would someone please enlighten me.....

[MaximumPete]

Don't think I'll go out alone at night up there!

Nervous MP :cool:

[VIKING9]

MP - I do know u but that is not important. :rolleyes:

[simandall]

The 146 Fleet was set up with the dregs of Debonair as the core of it's pilot force. Met some in HAJ and they were the biggest bunch of puffed up pr*cks I've ever seen in a uniform. It's tough on the decent folk on the fleet but there's some pretty huge sighs of relief that the whingeing, whining, sh*t stirring, morons will no longer be causing more stress than they're worth. In other words, good riddance to a crap fleet. They've done nothing but moan since they were first taken on and they'll moan until the door is finally shut behind them. Yep. All tarred with the same brush. Not fair but that's life.

Only one opinion of course!

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: simandall ]

[MaximumPete]

Come, Come....

Just because they used to wear grey uniforms and purple, yes purple ties there is no need to get personal.

MP :)

[Capt.Paul Skinback]

arsendall,presumably you must have been a barbie jet ppl if you were in Haj.The ex-deb guys you are referring have all gone to pastures orange and what is left is a bloody good fleet with bloody reliable(ish!) aircraft that bmi/r are going to rue letting go off in the next 6months.

[more tea captain ?]

Hmm ... some very bitter, twisted and fragile ego's at play here, but what do you expect from jumped up Nigel's in stripes.

One should know better than to name persons on this forum, whether they like them, dislike them, or happen to sh@g them...
grow up boys !!

If the repellant 146 fleet go their way at the behest of persons on other fleets ... so be it, and Im sure BMI regional will be a far better company for their passing... NOT.
But remember boys, you never know who will be serving you coffee..... :D

[Sagittarius Rising]

Sorry luv, but isn't this a pilot's forum?! Shouldn't you be in 'Wannebes'!!??

[Mr Angry]

Simandall. Anonymity is a wonderful thing isn't it? Gives the gutless wonders of the world balls!

Up until now I thought that I would leave bmi/r with fond memories of 2 bloody good years working with some of the nicest guys and gals I have had the privilege of working with, in 27 years. I would include in that the folks up at ABZ, and indeed a large number of 145 guys, with whom I've passed the time both on courses at ABZ and standbys at EMA, and some of whom I count among my friends. However, as in all walks of life there are those who are never happy with their lot, and will complain, and I'd be surprised if the 145/Fokker/and mainline fleets don't have their fair share of odd balls too.

Quite why you have only now found the guts to vent your venom on those of us, who are now facing a New Year unemployed, I don't know. ‘Kick’em while they’re down’ is a phrase that springs to mind. Your little outburst has served no useful purpose other than to prove that while there may be pr**ks on the 146 fleet they are certainly not alone. Are they, Simandall.?

[ 05 December 2001: Message edited by: Mr Angry ]

[Capt PPRuNe]

Getting close to the 100 replies mark and I apologise for not checking this thread earlier but it appears to have degenerated into a dummy spitting contest and so I hereby declare this thread closed.