ATR on a 850m runway?

[Tu154lover]

Hello!
I wonder if an ATR 42 or 72 can answer if it´s possible for an ATR 72-2/500 (or 42-3/500 to take-off and land at a 850m runway in a cold weather. And for a 30-45min flight?
Thanks,
//Daniel

[TheCosmicFrog]

It'll do it. Maybe not full. My local airport's runway is 1,200m and the ATR 72-500 (full) takes off about two-thirds of the way down on the roll for a 45 minute flight.

[nick14]

seen someone drop a kingair on a 490m runway before that was impressive.

The ATR is an exceptional aircraft! Wonder what the TODR is for it on a good day??

sorry thread drift :ugh:

[cris95123]

i know a runway in Philippines, caticlan, 950 m long with obstacle on take off, and every day cebu pacificair atr 72 500 land with 70 pax and take off with 40 pax isa +15°

[Miguel Martins]

An ATR72-500 once landed in Corvo (Azores), on a test flight to SATA.
LPCR (Corvo) - 2600 ft long
It is a small island with less than 500 habitants, so it wouldn't carry many pax on this route. SATA eventualy chose the Q200.

YouTube - Aterragem de ATR 72-500 na Ilha do Corvo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3XA4cr6hNk)

[Tu154lover]

So it´s possible :ok: Thanks!

[Tu154lover]

I think the only dash in production now is the Dash 8-Q400. And SATA went for the Dash 8-Q400 instead of the ATR 72-500. So I think SATA will continue to use the Do-228 to Corvo.

EDIT: Just saw that they will have 2-3 Dash 8-Q200 too.

[PT6A]

TU154, If you have a specific airport in mind I can run the figures through the perf software if you like and give you an answer.

PT6A

[Tu154lover]

The airports I wonder about is Honningsvåg (ENHV), Hovden (ENOV) and Sandane (ENSD).

[FougaMagister]

Not sure about an 850m runway, but this Photos: ATR ATR-42-300(QC) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Atlantic-Airlines/ATR-ATR-42-300(QC)/0476580&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=1&sok=WHERE__%28aircraft_generic_%3D_%27AI%28R%29_ATR-42%27_OR_aircraft_generic_%3D_%27ATR_ATR-42%27%29_AND_%28place_%3D_%27Wellesbourne_Mountford_%28EGBW% 29%27%29_&sort=_order_by_photo_id_DESC_&prev_id=&next_id=NEXTID) is an Atlantic ATR42-300 doing short-field practice on Wellesbourne's 917m-long runway 18. http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/ad/EGBW/EG_AD_2_EGBW_en.pdf It works -and it's not even a 500-series ATR.

Cheers :cool:

[PT6A]

Ok I can run some numbers on these airports.

They are not in out database (Don't fly there) do you have the obstacle information for each runway?

At the first airport you mention it appears that the runway slop would exceed the allowed limit as it has a 2.39% slope.

PT6

Do you know of some ATR 72-212A (PW127F) that are using this airport? that is the only aircraft I can run the numbers for.

[Tu154lover]

No ATR have ever landed on any of these airports.

[xtypeman]

Air Wales operated out of PLH to Cork and Dublin both 1 hr sectors but payload restricted to about 40 pax off a 1,000m runway with ATR 42-300. For a full load we only planned 30mins to CWL

[Robini]

I wonder if an ATR 42 or 72 can answer if it´s possible


What i know it's NOT possible for an ATR 42/72 to speak...


possible for an ATR 72-2/500 (or 42-3/500 to take-off and land at a 850m runway in a cold weather. http://www.atraircraft.com/public/atr/html/upload/doc/48c14e62dd98dCold%20Weather%20Operations_2008.pdf

Check out this document, you will find out all info you want to know about
ATR operations in freeeeeeezing cold weather....

I don't think ATR have any freeware performance documents for their aircraft
on the net.

And for a 30-45min flight?
What's the fuel burn of this type? Whats your ZFW? What's your alternate airport?
What is your flight time? Contaminated runway or not?

Many many factors...But as i newly said to you, ATR what i know doesn't have
any free for sharing performance diagrams.

[Tu154lover]

I think you can understand I meant a ATR PILOT... But yes, if you look at the another thread about the fuel burn for ATR you will find the answer. It´s around 640kg/h. For BOTH ATR 42 and 72.

Alternate airport is (with a long runway), Ålseund-Vigra Airport...

[Robini]

It´s around 640kg/h. For BOTH ATR 42 and 72.Well say a typical flight from Hovden to Oslo Gardermoen

Distance: 350 km, 1 h flight time.

JAR Fuel Policy are following.

5% En Route Time: 0,05h= 3 min
Alternate Airport is ENTO: 0,25h=15 min
Final Reserve Fuel: 0,5h= 30 min.
Total Trip Time: 1,8h= 1 h 48 min

Fuel burn was around 640kg/h...640*1.8= 1152 kg Takeoff Fuel

We estimate 100% cabin factor on todays flight wich is 74 pax.
84kg pax+11 kg baggage= 95kg per person
74*95= 7030kg payload

OEW 12950kg

TOW=ZFW+FOB 12950+1152+7030= 21132 kg TOW

Your TOW is 1670kg under MTOW

At MTOW and ISA ATR 72 needs 1333m of runway

We are quite close to MTOW so i guess we don't make it with this payload.

DON'T FORGET THE SLOPE OF OVER +/- 2% SLOPE....

ATR 42

Seating capacity is various depending on choice. But say 45 pax.
Payload: 4275kg
Fuel:1152kg
OEW: 11250kg

TOW: 16677 kg wich is 1923 kg under MTOW

MTOW TODR ISA is 1165 m...

With the slope even this operation would be impossible...

NOTE: It's ok to go with lower payload and thereby lower TOW to meet
the actual MTOW for the runway under given conditions

[Tu154lover]

Ok, Thanks Robin! :ok:You can also have various seats in an ATR 72 ;) 66 as example...

[Robini]

You can also have various seats in an ATR 72 http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif 66 as example...

Yes, 66 seats would be better in this case

[Tu154lover]

Now for antoher plane, Saab 340. Is it possible to operate from 800m runway for 30min flight? I think it should be ok, but it´s better to ask you know ;)

[Tu154lover]

Can´t someone please help me? :(

[Minorite invisible]

I recently asked ATR for a similar request but for an ATR-42 at a 1000 meter sea level 30 degree Celsius runway. Here is their reply.

"
Assumptions :
1,000 runway length
30 deg C OAT
sea level
hard paved runway
dry surface
no slope
no wind
no obstacles
FAR landing factor (0.6)

ATR42-300 (engine PW120)
MTOW : 15,560 kg
MLW : 15,755 kg (landing flap 30 deg)
Landing performance can be improved up to 16,400 kg (max structural landing weight) by either the application of flap 45 deg or the application of the steep slope approach with performance credit at flap 30 deg.

Both cases are approved by European authorities but require FAA derogation when FAR applies

ATR42-320 (engine PW121)
MTOW : 15,679 kg
MLW : 15,755 kg (landing flap 30 deg)
Landing performance can be improved up to 16,400 kg (max structural landing weight) by either the application of flap 45 deg or the application of the steep slope approach with performance credit at flap 30 deg.

Both cases are approved by European authorities but require FAA derogation when FAR applies

ATR42-500 (engine PW127E)
MTOW : 16,687 kg (standard take-off procedure)
MTOW : 17,243 kg (Full RTO procedure: both engines at 100% at brake release)
MLW : 15,582 kg (landing flap 35 deg)
Landing performance can be improved up to 18,300 kg (max structural landing weight) by the application of the steep slope approach with performance credit at flap 35 deg.

Approved by European authorities but requires FAA derogation when FAR applies "

It can probably do the 850 meter runway as well, but with what weight restriction?