757 with 307pax gear collapse?

[Vapor]

Just found this....



A Boeing 757-200 chartered by Air Niamey (Niger), Hajj flight from Garoua (Cameroon) to Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) with 307 passengers, was taxiing towards the runway, when the left main gear collapsed reportedly causing the airplane to drop onto its left engine. The pilgrims on board panicked and were evacuated. No injuries have been reported.


Full Story

The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com/h?article=410bec7f&opt=1)

[bylgw]

interesting number of pax to have on a 757-200, was it standing room only?

[captjns]

Probably a misprint... must have been a 767.

[kriskross]

Grossly overweight then, it's no wonder the landing gear collapsed!!

[Big Tudor]

307 pax? Blimey, I used to think BY packed them in with 235 on their B757-200's! :eek:

[clipstone1]

must be a B763 if it's 307, not a B762.....as even in BY world they had a max of 290 in the B762 mind you there was 344 in the B763 at one point.....

[BreezyDC]

The Aviation Herald article noted:
"Local Cameroon Media reported, that Cameroon's Civil Aviation Authority had granted special permission to transport 307 passengers on that plane far beyond its normal seat/passenger capacity, but well within its structural weight limits."
:eek:

[katanapilot]

B757-200 Basic Weight ~60,000kg
307 Passengers @75kg = 23,050kg
Hand luggage (and there will be a LOT of it if it's a Hajj trip @5kg = 1,535kg
Total 84,585kg

235 pax (charter confgi) is a tight squeeze. No way could 307 passengers be on that aircraft, if a 757-300 then possibly (280 in charter config).

B757-200 MZFM = 83,500kg.

And the weights will almost certainly be significantly higher than that, let alone hold luggage.....

Interesting to say the least!

767-300 - no problem.

[spider_man]

"leased two Boeing 757-200s for that purpose: LY-SKJ owned by Aurela (Lithuana) was transferred Nov 14th and OH-AFJ owned by Air Finland (Finland) was tranferred Nov 21st"

[Locked door]

Having seen some of these Haaj operators at work first hand I wouldn't be surprised if the aircraft in question was significantly over it's max weights and there were more bums than seats on board.

That being said the gear shouldn't have collapsed on the ground, it's designed to absorb touchdown G forces that would be equivilent to it being over twice the max landing weight which I'm sure it wasn't.

At least the evacuation meant none of the pax got round to lighting their gas stoves for cooking lunch. You think I'm kidding?

LD

[ihadcontrol]

Any possibility it could be babies/toddlers on adults laps that’s put the pax number up?
Lot of kids like but just a thought!

[Sky Wave]

Or perhaps it's just and typo and should read 207

[Earl]

Problem is not the inbound HAJ as going on now.
Things begin to go bad for the outbound legs.
All of these haj pax have gifts from Saudi Arabia to bring to friends and family back home.
Not to mention the 2 or 3 liters of Zam Zam water they all carry.
Planes are absolutely overweight.
You discover this near the end of the runway as you barely clear the lights.
Then your next clue is the aircraft barely climbs at max climb power.
We all called this the Rose Village departure, as we were very low passing over the compound where crews were based.
Not being able to reach the flight planned altitude is the final answer.
Even at a lower cruise altitude you are near MCT.
You run the performance charts backwards and see that you are 10-20 tons over max weight.
After you drop the pax at there destination it is amazing how the airplane flys exactly on the charts.
Dangerous operation, done many of them.
Not good for the new pilots, but you will learn a lot about aircraft performance, quickly.
Normal Haj operations, been going on for years like this.

[B Sousa]

Come on Boys and Girls, its Africa. These have to be brand new off the shelf Haaj Specials.
Sounds like one of these companies that forms just for this purpose. If they make it they walk away with big duckets. If not as in this case, everyone disappears.
And its not overloaded.......unless theres an accident.

[Tediek]

Problem is not the inbound HAJ as going on now.
Things begin to go bad for the outbound legs.
All of these haj pax have gifts from Saudi Arabia to bring to friends and family back home.
Not to mention the 2 or 3 liters of Zam Zam water they all carry.
Planes are absolutely overweight.
You discover this near the end of the runway as you barely clear the lights.
Then your next clue is the aircraft barely climbs at max climb power.
We all called this the Rose Village departure, as we were very low passing over the compound where crews were based.
Not being able to reach the flight planned altitude is the final answer.
Even at a lower cruise altitude you are near MCT.
You run the performance charts backwards and see that you are 10-20 tons over max weight.
After you drop the pax at there destination it is amazing how the airplane flys exactly on the charts.
Dangerous operation, done many of them.
Not good for the new pilots, but you will learn a lot about aircraft performance, quickly.
Normal Haj operations, been going on for years like this.


Interesting, why are airlines so interested to get their planes worn out on those trips, can't imagine this is good for the plane it self? They do get more earning per flight then a ordinairy charter?

[Desert Diner]

B757-200 Basic Weight ~60,000kg
307 Passengers @75kg = 23,050kg
Hand luggage (and there will be a LOT of it if it's a Hajj trip @5kg = 1,535kg
Total 84,585kg

235 pax (charter confgi) is a tight squeeze. No way could 307 passengers be on that aircraft, if a 757-300 then possibly (280 in charter config).

B757-200 MZFM = 83,500kg.

75kg (165 lb)may be considerd slim by UK standards. But that would be considered high by cartered Haji standards. 60kg (132lb) may be closer to the mark

B757-200 Basic Weight ~60,000kg
307 Passengers @60kg = 18,420kg
Hand luggage @5kg = 1,535kg
Total 79,955kg

Also, the Hajj flights are all adult!

[FlyPete]

Strange thing about this case is that at the time this incident was reported SKJ was standing in Maiduguri (MIU) after having engine problems. Saw it standing there for several days. I've been flying these Hajj flights with AFJ since 22nd and we haven't operated from Garoua. Only from MIU. I guess there has to be third plane leased because that report mentions only 2 aircraft which have been elsewhere. Would be really nice to hear who is dumb enough to load 307 pax in 752. :bored: We have 219 seats in ours.

Pete

[HAWK21M]

Strange...Somethings not right.Anyone have an official report link?
regds
MEL.

[green granite]

There is a slightly different version of events here, second one down.
JACDEC - Current News (http://www.jacdec.de/news/news.htm)

[brakedwell]

I wonder how many passengers ended up on the flight deck. :):):)

[FlyPete]

Still saying it was in Garoua. I even have a photo of SKJ taken on 21st at Maiduguri airport in Nigeria. It was already grounded. Even spoke with the pilots. Engine was going for inspections after exceeding EGT limit and blowing smoke. Didn't see any external damage on aircraft. Nobody mentioned anything about 307 pax back then.

Pete

[Romeo India Xray]

Engine was going for inspections after exceeding EGT limit and blowing smoke. Didn't see any external damage on aircraft.

So maybe if it was a dry lease they were flying it 307 up as single engine ops? :}

RIX

[YouNeverStopLearning]

I use to be based at Prestwick many years ago.
They often had the odd old B747 parked there for long periods for internal cleaning.
These B747 in question had BEEN used for the Hajj or the other "mass movement to the middle east" religious festival(s). In my recollection non had any commercial markings other than the minimum legal. Just all white ['ish].
They were often there for months. We were all very curious as to why these expensive "NOT flying in revenue service" hulls were stuck there.

We were told:
chartered by "middle eastern" customer for these events;
all pax seats had been removed, i.e. they have no seats inside passenger cabin;
all pax sat on the floor;
they are filled to the max of the floor space;
grossly overloaded in NUMBERS of pax, but not the mass [weight];
pax had to bring own food and drink for flight;
some pax brought portable "stoves" !;
toilets were insufficient for pax numbers - therefore pax did their "thing" in and around the cabin;
A/C were stuck for long periods every year until cleaners could be found who were prepapred to accept this "cleaning" task!
Imagine the internal atmosphere. the door were rarely opened due to OUR H&S laws.

Hence i am not suprized at the pax numbers at the top of this thread.

[SU-GCM]

@YouNeverStopLearning (http://www.pprune.org/members/5914-youneverstoplearning)
That must be some kind of joke
Please say Yes
Which pilot would accept to fly such a ........ (Really can't find a suitable name) :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[YouNeverStopLearning]

All the B747's I ever saw were middle-eastern registered... I seem to remember that they were all -200's...

and to answer your question: No, this is not a joke.

Ryanair were flying into Prestwick when i was there so maybe some of their pilot's might remember these long-term parked a/c?

oh! i just remembered something else: they had been used exclusively in the middle-east, africa and far east to mass-move pilgrims to the middle east. They were ferried empty to Prestwick just for cleaning!

[411A]

Having flown the Hajj for several years with TriStar aircraft, yes this year also, our small outfit has picked up quite a lot of extra business recently due to cancelled flights from other operators...we can pack in 329, and this is with a small business class section.
I have noticed for the last two years that the phase two baggage has been less, and was told by one charter broker that there are now limits on just what can be loaded....or not.

[OldCessna]

I believe it was an L1011!

Capt 411A will maybe have some knowledge perhaps?

[BelArgUSA]

As usual - I would caution newpaper readers about "numbers" published in the media...
It is likely to be a 757 with 207 passengers...
Or a 767 with 307 passengers.
xxx
Makes me recall news in a "highly knowledgeable publication" such as the Daily Mirror, which stated -
Sir Freddy Laker's airline will take delivery of 10 DC-3s...
Or, in reality, was it 3 DC-10s...?
xxx
I love Pprune, but at times, seems that the aviation IQ of a few is getting eroded...
:rolleyes:
Happy contrails

[YouNeverStopLearning]

i ask to all B757 jockeys:

could any model of 757 have 307 pax sitting down on cabin floor if all pax seats removed?

[ICEHOUSES]

Well EL AL fitted 1087 pax on a Jumbo in 1990 during their Ethiopian rescue flights, how they did it I've no idea, most seats I've ever seen on a 747 must have been 550 + in Europe anyway!

[OldCessna]

The aircraft concerned was an L1011 or Tristar

It blew some tires which damaged the gear.

It was not overloaded, it was not a B757

Everyone must surely know how often the press get it wrong, then we are off on all the theories about how many people can you get in a 757?

Sheesh!

[YouNeverStopLearning]

El Al took all the pax seats out... and a load of other stuff to lighten it and make room...

anyone care to correct me on that?

[beamender99]

Well EL AL fitted 1087 pax on a Jumbo in 1990 during their Ethiopian rescue flights, how they did it I've no idea ...

Ethiopian Immigration (http://st2010.trincoll.edu/~afeinber/ethiopian_immigration.htm)

http://st2010.trincoll.edu/~afeinber/os.jpg

Picture of Ethiopian Jews during Operation Moses - Photo from Jewishvirtuallibrary.com archive

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Operation_Solomon.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Operation_Solomon.jpg)


This really was SLF but what a result for them

[ICEHOUSES]

Thanks for that guys, have always wondered about that one, what an operation though..Elf N safety people must have had nightmares thinking about it..

[llondel]

I suspect the World Airways 727 out of Da Nang must count as one of the most overloaded, 260 people on an aircraft intended for 105.

Someone's reporting leaves a lot to be desired though, I could understand a bit of confusion with a typo between 757 and 767, but not with a Tristar if that's what it turns out to be.

[ACMS]

The average idiot media out there wouldn't know the difference between a Tristar and a School bus. :sad:


NEXT.....

[merlinxx]

Seem to remember that QF held the record at one time, for the Darwin air lift after the slight WX snag they had some many moons ago:D

[Wod]

From memory in DRW evacuation after Cyclone Tracy, QF threw seat belt rule away and allowed four pax per treble, plus used one belly hold with ladder access to main deck, and that way got to about 660.

Incidentally, Indonesian Hajj flights require international standards compliance and QF have been in that market for years using standard QF procedures (and therefore relatively high charter price ) - not all Hajji flights are clapped out freighters with kero stoves.

[Desert Diner]

not all Hajji flights are clapped out freighters with kero stoves.

Fortunately, that is becoming only an urban tale now:rolleyes:

[Onions]

Does anybody know who's aircraft it was as both operators mentioned seem to be denying any involvement?

[LN-MOW]

It was LY-SKJ of Aurelia .. a 2000-model -23N, ex- VIM and ATA.

[Romeo India Xray]

Does anyone know what type of lease this AC was on? I am guessing (hoping) it was not ACMI.

Aurela's denial of involvment along with the aledged overload authorisation coming from Cameroon would seem to indicate that the Lithuanians are not directly involved.

In my experience from working in this neck of the woods, standards have been raised to a level where I would not expect any LV commander to accept an overloaded AC. I have seen nothing to indicate the Lithuanians to be too different.

RIX

[Asdrius]

I don't think it was LY-SKJ. This plane returned to Vilnius few days ago and seems to be in good condition.
Local Lithuanian media picked up this story from jacdec.de and avherald.com few days ago. Aurela denies any involvement. Lithuanian CAA said they can not confirm or deny this incident as they have no information about it.

Also, I see that both sources (Jacdec.de and Avherald.com) which earlier this week said about LY-SKJ involvement in incident, recently removed the registration and operator from incident description.

I am also curious what really happened in Cameroon and what airplane was involved? Or maybe nothing serious happened and all this story was blowed out of proportion by various media sources? :)

[Travelman34]

To clear up any doubt on this matter.

As i was invloved with leasing the European B757s in the first phase of the hajj. I can confirm that Air Finland, Aurela and Gadair were not in Cameroon flying for Air Niamey.

These airlines would never exceed their legal payloads.

My contact at Air Niamey tells me the aircraft was a Tri-star.

If that is the case any onions out there will be able to track the aircraft/operator down fairly quickly as there are not so many tri-stars left.

[Onions]

Now we are getting somewhere.

Anyone know who's Tri Star?

[GearDown&Locked]

calling 411A...

[atakacs]

calling 411A...

ROFL :O

That being said there is a small difference between a 757 and a Tristar... this story gets juicer by the day.

[OldCessna]

Privilege Jet

[411A]

Privilege Jet

Yup, a sad tale.
Idiot Captain rejected at 133KIAS for a very minor number one engine surge (easily controlled by reducing slightly the throttle briefly) and stopped.
Six tires needed replacing, as well as two brake assemblies.
In doing the necessary, acft slipped off the jack and damaged the landing gear truck assembly.
Latest news is a temp repair is anticipated and the acft ferried for major repair/replacement of the landing gear assembly.
Read...expensive.
Meanwhile, another TriStar carrier is picking up the business....lots of it.;)

[GotTheTshirt]

You have got to hand it to 411:}

The thread starts not knowing if the aircraft is a 757 or L1011:bored:
If it is Lithuanian or African:bored:

Then 411 tells us that it was an L1011 and it aborted take off with a " slight surge" that could have been solved by just reducing power :eek: and at 133 KIAS:ok:
Not around 130 or around 135 BUT 133 KIAS:ugh:
I would have thought should details could have only come from the flight crew:D


Latest news is a temp repair is anticipated and the acft ferried for major repair/replacement of the landing gear assembly.

There was never any intention to ferry !!
The replacment landing gear, jacks and people was on a cargo aircraft bound for Cameroons before your post was sent:ok:

[411A]

I would have thought should details could have only come from the flight crew
Yup, sure did, after a brief interview, on site.
Info passed along by those in the know.

Not mentioned, of course, are the problems (now) with the suspect engine.
Local maintenance had their oar in the muddy waters after the fact, so ferry might be apt considering the present engine state.
These folks will find out in short order that you cannot maintain an RB.211 with just a screwdriver and a hammer.
Connie Kalitta found out, in short order, some years ago.
A very expensive lesson.

[CargoOne]

411A,

These folks will find out in short order that you cannot maintain an RB.211 with just a screwdriver and a hammer.


.... but you can fly RB211 with major AD overdue, just because some African CAA gave a dispensation for it? :ugh:

[Earl]

I think the engine A/D is just overdue on the 522 engines.
But its was supposed to be accomplished by AUG 2006.
No alternate method of compliance has been done to many of these 522 engines, not sure if they even have one that was done correctly according to RR and the manufacturer.
-500's flying with the RR 524 are ok.
Maybe some ground engineering types can provide some good updated info.
I seen this Privelage Jet Tristar last year in JED,I think it was a -500, but memory declines with the age I guess.

[411A]

-500's flying with the RR 524 are ok.

AD's on these due now, and for about two years.
-524B4's and D4's.
but you can fly RB211 with major AD overdue, just because some African CAA gave a dispensation for it?
Yup, in complete conformity with RR.
However, ongoing repetitive inspections are required (and accomplished).

[Earl]

Its very rare for these RR engines to surge or stall, maybe with a tailwind or not coming out of full reverse before 80 kts.
But reducing the throttle will stop this as 411 stated.
Not as good as a G/E engine but much better than a Pratt.
Lockheed made a good choice for this airplane with the RR engines.
Happy Haj flying for phase II.
Not in it this year but do enjoy the stories.

[GotTheTshirt]

411 strikes again:ouch:

The 524-B4 ( Tristar -500) axial motion AD was due by Aug 2008.

The axial motion AD is NOT APPLICABLE to 524-D4 ( B747):hmm:

But I guess if you are on registers that do not follow AD's then the details are not that important!!:rolleyes:

Isnt it amazing that FAA and EASA do not accept this Rolls Royce "dispensation leter" :O

[GlueBall]

Abort at 133KTs normally wouldn't be a cause for six tires and 2 brake assemblies to be trashed; the captain must have gotten spooked and stomped on the brake pedals long before the end of the pavement. :eek:

[411A]

...the captain must have gotten spooked and stomped on the brake pedals long before the end of the pavement.

Yup.
Quite long runway, no need for this nonsense.

Isnt it amazing that FAA and EASA do not accept this Rolls Royce "dispensation leter"

Don't fly to either place, so don't care.
Simple as that.

[cockney steve]

I'm baffled by the stories of gross overloading on these HaJJ flights

3-rd world countries may well have a much more relaxed attitude to life and health ,than Westerners........but I have to question the professionalism of the Pilot-respondents on this Thread whoadmit to having knowingly flown a grossly overweight aircraft. :eek:

yes, I can accept "cramming them in"....even loading to known safe limits
but compromising your own safety,by going to the edge of the performance envelope, seems, at the least, foolhardy.

(plenty of "gung -ho" actions in wartime,as well,-but this isn't wartime, either.

*awaits incoming, dons flame-suit* :\

[411A]

...but I have to question the professionalism of the Pilot-respondents on this Thread whoadmit to having knowingly flown a grossly overweight aircraft

Which ones would that be?
Didn't especially notice any, but then again, might have missed one.
Personally been flying the Hajj flights for quite a long time with L1011 aircraft (nearly all models) and have never found the need to fly overweight.
If the specific flight segment is limiting due to the required fuel uplift requirements, we simply use a technical stop for refueling.
Simple as that.
Besides, the Saudi GACA regularly inspect aircraft, including loadsheets, and have found no irregulatities at our end.

Certainly can't say about other operators, however.

Me thinks you might have duff gen.

[GotTheTshirt]

411

Don't fly to either place, so don't care.
Simple as that.

Spoken like a true aviation person:\

Fair enough but please stop pontificating about cowboy pilots :ugh:

[captplaystation]

What I think he meant was that neither the FAA or EASA were involved with any operators flying to these places so "didn't care", not that he 411A doesn't care per se. If he isn't involved why should he care anyhow, doesn't make him a cowboy just coz he comes across as wearing a stetson ;)

[JT8]

Quote:
...the captain must have gotten spooked and stomped on the brake pedals long before the end of the pavement.
Yup.
Quite long runway, no need for this nonsense.

Yes because everyone is completely calm and collected during an RTO at '133'kts. :ugh:

[SOPS]

old 411 seems to know everything about everything.......even second guessing what someone else does..:confused:

[JW411]

And if he had a decent old 3-holer like a DC-10-30 then he wouldn't have to worry about making refuel stops every 5 minutes!

[OldCessna]

[quote][Abort at 133KTs normally wouldn't be a cause for six tires and 2 brake assemblies to be trashed/QUOTE]
Your quite correct, it would usualy all 8 tyres!

I believe it was the 4 mains and 2 nose that came apart.

The problem in all this is the Privilege aircraft was ex Air Transat so it's pretty well maintained.

If you look at people like Air Rum ex Orient Thai everything has been deferred such as the engine AD's.

Pretty much all the Time Control items on their aircraft are way out of date.

For example: RAT triggers never replaced. O2 Generators, Fuel pumps and on & on

S/B's are not done, example RAT unit

The Saudis really need to look deeper & hopefully they soon will.

[CargoOne]

411A


Isnt it amazing that FAA and EASA do not accept this Rolls Royce "dispensation leter"

Don't fly to either place, so don't care.
Simple as that.

OK, so basically you agree that you are from the same cowboy pool that running most other Tristar operations?

[camilo1]

I thought 411A was flying the Privilege Jet?.
Or at least used to fly it...
Guess I was mistaken.
BTW what L-1011 does he fly?.
He has said ex-Delta, but which one is it?.
:confused:

[tubby linton]

A loadsheet is the biggest piece of fiction in aviation.I have flown the majority of Airbus types in many varied types of operation around the world and the aircraft always comes out over what you think it weighs.This can be in the order of 2T for an A320 on a charter back from the Eastern Med to almost 10T over on an A300 on the hadj.Unless you personally weigh every person and every bag you will never know what the true weight is.
Even with the best loading team in the world an aircraft is usually heavier than the loadsheet.It makes me laugh how some people try for theoretical accuracy in obtaining a cg position based on the notional weight.One fleet manager told me on the A320, as long as the trim is in the green band on take-off the aircraft is flyable.
I have never seen an aircraft that is below the weight on the loadsheet.The hadj is simply organised chaos with operational standards directly proportional to the country of registration of the aircraft.If you tried for absolute accuracy you would never leave the KSA.The problem is usually due to exceeding max zero fuel , a structural limit rather than a performance limit.
The culture is to load up any available space regardless of any limit ever imagined by engineers in Seattle or Toulouse.Those of us with some pretence at integrity will do their best to limit this but many other operators will gladly accept this situation in their antique aircraft and hope that the forces of natre never catch up with them!

[GotTheTshirt]

Camilo,

411 is flying for Air Rum ( or Rum Air !) just in case you want to avoid walking under it !:ok:

[OldCessna]

411A

How is your airline complying with the IP5 AD that drops the IP5 disc life from 22,000 cycles to 9,000 as of Dec 1st 2008 !!

Don't tell us you have an RR letter !

Do you get one for each AD or do you just have a blanket one that says you do not have to comply with any RR AD's

My carrier just did the mod and several others are doing it.

I dont understand your reasoning by flying such a POS

[Earl]

Load sheet is only as good as the numbers you put on it.
If the load plan has bad numbers and the cargo weights are not accurate its not worth the paper its put on.
From my experience, if you fly Saudia haj, or ACMI for Saudia, even Garuda ACMI flights, the weights are usually correct.
The African ones, flights to Nigeria,etc are really stretched with incorrect weights, unless something has improved in the last 2 years.
So even your field limits and climb limits look good on the ground, but not knowing you are 10-20 tons over max weight is the issue.
Phase 1 (inbound haj) not really a big problem.
Phase 2 (outbound Haj) gets really interesting.
The big surprise starts at Rotate.

[camilo1]

Thanks very much GotTheTshirt (http://www.pprune.org/members/25937-gotthetshirt)

:ok:

I used to respect this man because of his deep L-1011 knowledge and expertise and I really thought he was in comand of another bird, Privilege or the ex Globejet Ones (now Kallat El Saker) maybe.

I knew it wasn´t the Bourtuqalieh or Skygate.

But Air Rum????.

Aren´t those the clowns that declared an emergency in Perú so that their passengers could catch a soccer game?.

I have seen pictures of their aircraft, at least the ones they abandoned in Fujairah, I am not an expert but that is not the way to store any aircraft.

This man might respond by telling me that I know nothing and therefore I should stay out of his area of expertise.

It doesn´t take an expert to know that the engines on their Air Rum L-1011 (-22s) are unserviceable.

:rolleyes:

[fhegner]

After many trips to countries in south asia that 'feed' these hadj 'adventures', I'm not at all surprised that the comfort of the slf is slightly different that the one we, even on monkey class endures. Just seeing the hadj terminals, moving of everything other than plp comes to mind...but i must say I've read something here I would not ever have imagined.... indeed a facinating tread!

PS: don't bullie 411 pls! :=

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I may be a touch naive here, but wouldn't a major overload show up on the external pre flight, "she's sitting a bit low on the oleos tonight" or even once engines are started "needed a bit more thrutch to get her off stand tonight" If you are flying the same aircraft regularly.surely these early warning would show before the belated Vr tester (twitcher) ?
Comments and observations appreciated.
Be lucky
David

[Romeo India Xray]

I may be a touch naive here, but wouldn't a major overload show up on the external pre flight, "she's sitting a bit low on the oleos tonight"

I have never flown a 200T widebody, but I would follow the reasoning that even a 10T increase above max ramp would not manifest itself too clearly on the walkaround. It only equates to 5%, and certainly where I fly, the walkaround is complete before the loading is complete.

RIX

[autoflight]

Flew in that part of the world in a 727-200 for a while in 1990. Overhead lockers were absolutely jammed with huge quantity of bananas. Still uncomfortably below Vr with 1000 ft of runway remaining. Just staggered into the air a little into the overrun. I'm sure nothing much has changed.

[411A]

411A

How is your airline complying with the IP5 AD that drops the IP5 disc life from 22,000 cycles to 9,000 as of Dec 1st 2008 !!

Don't tell us you have an RR letter !

Do you get one for each AD or do you just have a blanket one that says you do not have to comply with any RR AD's

My carrier just did the mod and several others are doing it.

I dont understand your reasoning by flying such a POS

Relevant discs replaced quite some time ago.
Also, don't fly for Air Rum....T Shirt has his knickers in a twist, as usual :}

[GotTheTshirt]

411
Sorry but I am not fully up to date on Name changes of L1011 operators, some of which I cannot pronounce.
Usually only the name has been changed to protect the guilty :ok:

I usually know the aircraft but cannot always put a face to it:}



I guess there are a couple of reasons why you dont admit to the airline.
One is that you want to keep it secret and the other is that it may have changed during your posting:)
Anyway give my regards to Abu Sheik.

[411A]

I guess there are a couple of reasons why you dont admit to the airline.
One is that you want to keep it secret and the other is that it may have changed during your posting


There is a third....you never asked.:}

I do have to say though, that these folks do keep their airplanes running OK.
I asked for the number one engine fan to be trim-balanced...and it was, pronto.
Either the runways are getting shorter, or the pax are getting heavier, as we need all the thrust we can muster up.:}

[Cubs2jets]

Quote:
I guess there are a couple of reasons why you dont admit to the airline.
One is that you want to keep it secret and the other is that it may have changed during your posting
There is a third....you never asked.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

OK, 411A, I'll ask. Which operator are you employed by?

As you see, I'm totally new to this discussion and have no axe to grind. I have read your posts for many years and find them informative and written by someone who has hands on experience of which he writes. You seem to be one of the last still active with experience over a broad range of transport catagory aircraft from the last of the pistons to "jumbo" jets.

C2j

[411A]

OK, 411A, I'll ask. Which operator are you employed by?

Why do you want to know...want a job?
If so, you need lots of L1011 experience.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I would be very happy to read the autobiography of someone whose experience ranges from Avgas to fly by wire.
Serious posting.
Be lucky
David

[411A]

I would be very happy to read the autobiography of someone whose experience ranges from Avgas to fly by wire.


No fly-by-wire at this end, however the manuscript may well be sent to the publisher in three years or so, as the outline is already being prepared by Mrs 411A (who was a British diplomat at one time, and is a published author already)...and it will be quite interesting, IF you enjoy stories about the old piston/jet transport days.
Stratocruisers included.:}

[AN2 Driver]

411A,

now that is a book I do want to read :)

So put me down on the order list, will ya?

[bigal1941]

Please, Please, Please. Alan

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Please can I paypal my deposit now. Do NOT want to miss out.
Thanks for your time and effort so far.:ok::D
Be lucky
David

[Cubs2jets]

411A,

I asked (I thought without rancor) because you indicated this was the avenue through which you would answer the question. Nothing more nothing less.

Not interested in a job, but I did ride in an L1011 once.

C2j

[The AvgasDinosaur]

but I did ride in an L1011 once. And would very much like to repeat the experience, :uhoh: I fear a mod might soon notice the thread creep from overloaded Boeing products to classic/classy Lockheed ones.
Be lucky
David

[GotTheTshirt]

Also, don't fly for Air Rum....T Shirt has his knickers in a twist, as usual

411 you probably haven't noticed but my informatiion is that you are flying the Air Rum aircraft for the owners of Air Rum.:}
However I can understand your confusion as the airline is called Royal this month.
Only the name has been changed to protect the guilty :ok:

[Mac the Knife]

Put me down for a copy please.

:ok:

[GearDown&Locked]

However I can understand your confusion as the airline is called Royal this month.
That's about 5 paint jobs to be done... or do they put a new sticker on top of the old lettering?:}

Anyways these tristar must be damn good machines after countless years of use and abuse (and probably less than optimal maintenance) :ok:

Looking forward to read your juicy stories 411A!

GD&L

[OldCessna]

We need a new thread for suggestions for a name for 411A's book.

Will that be fiction or non-fiction?

[forget]

....... a name for 411A's book.

'Weight is the Punter?' :{

[Conan The Barber]

'I knew it all'

[eurocontrol]

seems Mali is the latest 'flag of convinience', just got a message of three
L1011 on the ramp at Ras al Khaimah on Thursday, TZ-MHI (previosuly EX-35000 last week and 9G-BSM a few weeks before that)
plus TZ-SPA & TZ-SGI (possibly previosuly JY-SGI)

by Staurday SPA & SGI had gone so assume on Hajj 2 by now

EC

[Earl]

Word on the street is that N194AT Orange Air had an engine failure, crew shut the engine down and then had another engine failure, single engine back into the airport.
Once I get more info I will post it here.
Aircraft was re-registered in another country of convinience to get around the the engine A/D's.
Another really bad Tristar operator doing haj flights on illegal aircraft with those 522 engines.

[Earl]

I know the history of this aircraft and this company is for sure breaking the regulations.
Yet the Saudis allow him to operate, wasta and money under the table.
Anything goes in the inchalla land when it comes to haj and umra flights
This guy is also well known for not paying the crews 747 and Tristar, and for the time we ferried this aircraft it had many engine problems from the beginning of last year out of MIA.
High vibs on number 3 engine, above 2.5 both channels which is a shutdown in the manual, even a caution there saying do not attempt to reduce the throttle to eliminate vibration.
Yet this manager/owner tried to get the crew to continue at a lower power setting.
Visually checking the number 3 through the cabin showed sparks from the N-1 blades contacting the attrition lining.
Looked like a ring of fire.
This is what I have seen from some Tristar operators now,
Maybe some good ones left out there but mostly all remaining are bad.
Just an accident waiting on a place to happen due to piss poor maint.
Heard the Captain was from a major us airline that declared bankruptcy recently he did not do things this way there why the change now?

[Earl]

On another issue relating to the blown tires, someone told me they want the crew to pay for these tires, original thread.
What kind of low life operation is this?
Having being burnt with no pay from these Jordanian Tristar companies beware.
Get your round trip ticket in advance, pay in advance also if possible.
These have a really strong history of not paying.
You will operate breaking every rule in the regs, when it comes time for pay they will cheat you.
I know of 2 companies there first hand, Star Air B. M. and Linejet/orange air with Musen M., N194AT.
Some people may take these jobs because they are desperate, just to pay the bills.
These guys would cheat their own mother.
Do a search on them here on prune.
By the way all these Trisatr crews are non current unless they did a sim check in Atlanta, the last operating tristar sim in the world.
Can be done on the aircraft but expensive, no extra crew ,pax or cargo allowed during the check, to include the flight attendants.
Last sim in the UK was damaged due to fire in Bourmouth UK November 2007, no other sim available except Atlanta Georgia USA in the world.

Buyer beware,

[ferrydude]

Is this chap perhaps "the fatman"?