Aer Lingus Troubles ahead

[Flame]

OK guys,
Rumour has it that Irish Carrier Aer Lingus is looking at dropping 1 maybe 2 Trans Atlantic routes due to mounting losses. Mentioned are Baltimore and maybe Newark. I understand that the company is also looking at loss making European routes especially Stockholm. Also in the pipeline is the fact that the company may not now hire the last 2/3 batches of cadets that they took on recently
Sad times ahead, not only for EIN but most carriers

:eek:

[PenPusher]

Hi

Yes heard that too about dropping Baltimore and Newark for the winter. Would be surprised if Stockholm went as anytime I saw the loads in the system they were fairly healty in both C an Y class.

Bye

[Bluehair]

Hmm worrying times ahead for EI i aggree.

Baltimore never did terribly well and Continental have competed strongly with the Newark route especially since they have an excellent hub there.

This past year has been bad enough for Aer Lingus but I predict worse times ahead.

The introduction of GO competing with them directly on GLA and EDI is causing concern and it's only a matter of time before GO expands their routes out of Dublin along with possibly Easyjet and even Buzz.

This will cause a lot more pain for EI than it will for Ryanair.

Also you must remember that one of the main factors keeping some of the US Majors from expanding routes into Dublin is the SNN stopover rule (For every TA flight that leaves DUB one must also leave SNN).

The EU will force this out sooner rather than later (12-18 months?) and i'd reckon on seeing Delta and Continental expanding their routes into Dublin and United starting some at this point.

Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

[Maxfli]

Doom and gloom we're all going to die. At least the A330 drivers will be able to take some leave.

[Flame]

Blue Hair
I agree with you totally re GO on the Scottish routes, its EI who will suffer not FR, however I do expect EasyJet to come in on the DUB-AMS route and this will be another blow for EI. It would make sense for Easyjet with their hub at AMS. Cheap fares from Ireland to Europe can only be had by flying with FR, and of course that is limited to Paris and Brussels. With Easyjet in the frame, via AMS the rest of their European network will be available to hard pressed Irish travellers

I sincerely hope, that one of the rumours I heard and passed on is not true....that is about the cadets currently with EI, I would rather see routes dropped than careers :confused:

[akerosid]

BWI and EWR are both routes served through SNN and Continental needs to operate a separate 757 to SNN to enjoy the privelege of a direct DUB trip.

Transatlantic routes from DUB (particularly these two) could be considerably more successful if nonstops were permitted, but with the one for one rule, these stopovers are the price the airline pays to have nonstops to BOS, JFK, ORD and LAX.

Noticed in this week's Business Post, there are rumblings of a possible general election in the Autumn; if so, the fate of EI might well be a major issue. MO'R doesn't have the slightest interest in aviation policy and there is considerable concern that EI will be sold to an airline (or worse still, an investment group) which would only seek to run down the t/a operation. Long hauls must be developed and there is still plenty of room for growth.

Selling to BA (or anyone else) with the SNN stop still in place would effectively give the message that transatlantic flights are not important. It would effectively be an invitation to shut them down and invite airlines to cherry pick the high yield pax through LHR or elsewhere.

[chad_togoa]

In relation to cadets (information from a reliable source), I heard the very same the other day about the possibility of the cancellation of the current cadet training programme. Does anyone know how many there are in training at the moment?

[CAT MAN]

Where do you people get your info...???

[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: TR3 ]

[CaptSensible]

If EI is sold and the TA routes are chopped, where does that leave Irelands future US tourist income? You've just given up the right to self determination in one of the biggest markets this country has.

Sure, there may be others prepared to pick up the routes...maybe, but only under their own terms surely! And as aeroskid has pointed out...who will volunteer to operate a wildly uneconomic government policy that was designed only to please a small but powerful lobby in the west of Ireland, and was foisted (as has every other disastrous government whim) on an unprotesting and docile Aer Lingus.

This country has already lost control of its telecoms development to an outside owner. All plans for broadband high-speed internet services are now shelved. Who's going to pay for the cost of installing the infrastructure for such development? If the foreign owners won't, then who will? And what does that mean for Irelands competitiveness in the global IT business?

The off-loading of strategic state assets might seem like good policy today...popular too with a brain-washed electorate. But when the repercussions hit home in the coming years, it will be too late to undo the damage.

[caulfield]

Saddened to hear about the continuing troubles of shamrock..I have always enjoyed travelling with them when crossing the pond.Shame that such a good airline should be forced to downsize and lose out to inferior rubbish like GO.Makes a good case for protectionism on the DUB-LON route.Connections between 2 busy capitals should have superior service.Let the riff-raff fight it out for less prestigious connections.This cut-throat competition hasnt led to better airlines as some would suppose..all it has done is give airlines like GO and EZY a good excuse for providing no service whatsoever.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Interesting perspective 'rubish airlines'.

WWW

[Flame]

Ok guys, for what its worth, I do not see EI ending all TA routes at all, I guess BWI and EWR may go, but my info says that JFK, BOS and LAX are doing especially well. LAX is a major "premier" route. ORD may be in jeopardy, but is doing just OK.

As for European routes, Just look at what competition did on the CPH route. As soon as SAS increased services to 3 a day EI just walked away from it. Now, I know that SAS are feeding into their own network at CPH..but just walking away and doing nothing seems strange. I would not be surprised at all if a few "shocks" with regard to European routes were announced over the next few months.

As an aside, Has anyone experienced the service in "premier" on any european routes lately..?, In my opinion is is an absolute disgrace. Service, food and staff all equally leave a lot to be desired. On the TA routes its a lot different and Better..! :mad:

[airpoint]

Well Flame
Its true that in the last year that catering has certainly not been up to scratch.
As for the staff its the same bunch that fly across the pond as do european flights so why there should be a difference i dont know and it not easy having to hand out a product that is not up to scrath day in day out especially when you have seen what it should be like a you get the hassle all the time for it.
Its been a tough few years for the staff of EI they have put up with a lot and its about to get worse.From what I have been told by our pax is were second to none when it comes to the front line staff especially in the cabin.
So its not all doom and gloom we still smile,but watch out some of us do bite :D
airpoint

[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: airpoint ]

[EI - E I - O]

Bad times, is no excuse for unfriendliness and rudeness, which I can only describe the number one on a recent flight to L.A., while I was in premier class. From the start, the atendant, clearly looked, craby, as the flight had just come up from Shannon, where she joined it and seemed to hold a grudge, that all the pax, are getting on in Dublin, and not in the Banner county. She was the typical red haired spinster from Limerick, who had an amazing opinion of herself, the wine, by the attitude she held, must be from her own cellar, as she was very slow to hand it out! This is only one example of a list faults, they have, and perhaps there are just too many to resolve. I actually, no longer look forward, travelling on Lingus, there service is just dropping and droping, which is a shame, because its the only thing that seperates them from the no frills. Travelling, east before going West accross the pond, now seems atractive, considering the service and friendlinesss, ands smiling faces I know will greet me in LHR, its sad, but its attractive.
Nobody would like to see the green shamrock disappearing, but competition is healty, and Fungus have had a fair crack of the whip, for long enough, but cannot seem to get it together, on providing the complete service.

[Bearcat]

looks like they should shut the place down, start all over again with the good people and leave the reckers, the lazy and the people sitting around outside looking in. Then they may have a chance and get market approval.....otherwise they are history. None of the major financial intitutions will lend them a dime I have been told by a good friend who is the boss of one of these places. :(

[Flame]

Just to clarify a point, with regard to service on Aer Lingus flights....I have flown "up front" on numerous airlines over the past 10 years and I must say that Aer Lingus would come out bottom of my own list for service. I do admit that a lot of staff give their best, when it comes to service, but a lot also could not give a damn and the problem is...that it shows.

Without doubt, in my experience, and I know others will disagree, the service standards on BA "up front" are the industry best. Staff always seem to have the attitude that you are important and want to maake your trip pleasent. They have been without exception , friendly and efficient.

On EI flights it is common place to see the "No1" standing in the galley directly operations and resting, yet with BA the "No1" is always in the cabin looking afer the PAX, if BA can do this why can EI not do it as well.

Before finishing this one, I am sure taht EI staff are up against it with regards to management at the company...but please when I am flying...remember its not my fault :rolleyes:

[Maxfli]

I must disagree about BA, I flew to BKK up front and was astonished at the lack of interest in the Pax. I've never flown up front with EI but the best I've come accross is Upper Class with VA.

[Bluehair]

Unfortunately service quality with EI is very hit and miss, and by my own experience it's more miss than hit recently.

Moral is at an all time low and many (myself included) have jumped ship in the last months with many more of the best staff to follow.

There is massive doubt about the future viabilty of the company so those who can are leaving for greener pastures (of which there are many despite some of the doomsayers).

All you are left with are the more senior staff (most of whom could give a toss) and very junior inexperienced staff.

Things could have been so very different....... but anyone with two brain cells to rub together has seen the light and are making other plans. Shame :(

[Bearcat]

Hey Capt Sensible, is the message coming a cross from the previous comments that AL is giving a dire service, the morale is through the floor and it is time for someone else to take up the reins? I am not out to get you but having travelled with you alot recently, I was never on time, the cabin crew did'nt give a toss and the customer service was on a par with a low cost competitor of yours. Tiime for a roll over boys

[CaptSensible]

Well, call me a cynic but as far as I can see service standards have fallen in every walk of life. Why are you surprised at that?

People everywhere are working harder than ever before, often for less money and on poorer conditions. As Bluehair (an ex EI CCM) said above, the good people just walk. Meanwhile customer expectations are rising! Why are you surprised if service personnel no longer have the time to smile sweetly and pass the time of day with you? This is deregulation of labour markets baby!

The yanks started it...ask them about service standards from their CCM's.

You say that BA or KLM or -whoever- are better. Maybe sometimes (see paragraphs above), but I also keep reading on these pages how BA CCM's make more money than the F/O's on their flights. I guess if you pay your CCMs that well you'll be more likely to get exceptionally good service.

Are you in favour of that? I'm not.

Bearcat...why didn't you travel with FR? Their punctuality is excellent...so I read in their ads anyhow. Has to be true, eh?

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: CaptSensible ]

[EI - E I - O]

Fly FR and send your luggage EI or DHL!!!!

[minuteman]

EI EIO I find your attitude reprehensible. If you have such a low opinion of our staff just go fly somewhere else there'll be someone else to fill that premier seat!
If you were being paid peanuts to be brow beaten by an ever increasingly demanding public you might not feel so great either. If the CCMs didn't really care about the job they could walk tomorrow...
Capt Sensible I think I may be finally agreeing with you.
As for FR "punctuality" how easy is it to put a flight down (on paper) as on time? Or is "on time" these days within 30 mins? That is of course if the flight goes. Don't get me wrong FR fly and they will get you there but isn't that all you're paying for?
Competition on punctuality is irrelevant when the product is different.
As for GO DUB-GLA surely the fact that its Glasgow Intl not Prestwick will hurt FR?

EI has been written off many times on this site, yet nothing comes of it. Rumour abounds, scaremongering prevails and we all work on. The trouble is not with the workers....

[Flame]

Hey Guys;

PLEASE...I did not start this thread for all and sundry to start having a go at each other. Be Civil...!!!

On the subject of EI..Just heard that FR are going to go head to head with "GO" on the DUB-EDI route, now me thinks this is very bad news for EI

[CAT MAN]

Do we all fly with the same Aer lingus???...I've always been treated well on all flights, though up front to L.A. is still beyond me...I recenly spent time away,when I boarded the aircraft home,I already felt I'd arrived (home)...so everybody be objective...They're quite good...Just think of those bad weather days...the busses to another airport..Accomodation...I think I heard it once called, Oh yes...SERVICE

[Joe Curry]

EI's future at EDI looks bleak with the
announcement that FR are to start 4 daily
return flights EDI-DUB in August. :(

EI could of course salvage something at EDI
by starting a daily one-stop EDI-DUB-USA.

They will have no competition, (not at the
moment anyway) :D

[EI - E I - O]

MinuteMan, thank you, you too, seem to have, the Aer Lingus "Its not my fault, its my Managers " Attitude I am talking about.

"If you do not like it,Let someone else take your seat", well thats where, I think you may be wrong, the unfortunate fact, for you, is that there is nobody to take my seat, in fact on my last flight, I was the one of 7/8 pax in Premier, and three or four of them were A/L Staff, on cheapo's with their 2 nd cousins(Twice removed) from Ballyhaunus.!!! Their the ones who got the best service, in Premier.]

AL is in big trouble, and you too can feel responsible, (so you do, in fact, make a difference), regardless of what you might think, you poor brow beaten individual!! And the customer is NOT, there for you to blame and torture with i/2 hearted service and crabby faces nor are they someone to vent your anger at.

You should be happy, you are employed by a large Organisation, which can absorb the chip on your shoulder, which you, and so many AL employees so clearly have.

I am not apoligising for my comments, I find it amazing, that the Foot Soldiers blame their managers, (of which there are just too many), the managers blame the staff and, unfortunately, this can only go one way, and thats down, unless people, such as your kind self, wake up and see that, you actually need pax, and not the other way around, and being approachable, is actually part of your job description!!

[Bearcat]

Capt Sens and Min Man ....listen up what's been said to the comments above and accept there is a deep rooted problem that needs drasdtic and radical change to solve it. We are not out to get you but we tell it as we see it. We all want AL to make it and come out on top but in its' current state we are not so sure.

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: Bearcat ]

[CaptSensible]

Bearcat you keep on repeating that you're 'not out to get us'.
Relax...stop protesting so much, you're giving us a complex.

Theres a very well stated reply on the FR-v-Sabena thread: ( http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi? ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=014629 (http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=014629) )
where a Sabena pilot asks the usual critics (why is it always the some people?) to give some specifics and stop generalising.

Why don't you do the same. I think you are overstating the problem somewhat, for effect.

One other thing worth remembering is this; the people who buy tickets in Premier class (especially on the short haul services) are not spending a few hundred quid extra just for a free copy of the Irish Times, a greasy brekkie and some cheap champagne. Nor even for a buttering up by the hosties. Nope the name of the game is flexibility.
If you want to name the day/time of travel, and have the freedom to to change the plan at a few hours notice...you need an unrestricted ticket. And since airline seats are perishable items, which must be sensibly yield managed, unrestricted tickets carry a price.
For those in business who need flexibility, and who's time is money...it's worth their while to pay the extra. The other trimmings (of which there are many...not least the biz lounges) are of a high standard, and they know they won't be left in the lurch if the operation goes tits up...ALT has a good track record there too.

Question: Have you ever travelled in Premier on a full-fare ticket that you actually purchased yourself? If so, why did you spend the money?
Was it just for the pose?

Or are you a Staff Pax too perhaps? Expecting too much then maybe!

Bearcat, no-one is saying that things at ALT shouldn't change. That's a given. But posting the obvious on this BB is just wasted effort on your part and shows a certain intent that is not benign...let's hear something positive from you and maybe then your bona fides will make your protestations of innocence unnecessary. ;)

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: CaptSensible ]

[minuteman]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply (whoops! there's my "brow beaten" attitude again)

There's several points:
1. I hardly think EI pax are there to "blame and torture." I challenge anyone to tell me truthfully if they ever were....
We all realises bottom line is bums on seats et al.
2.LAX does well in Premier and as for staff pax there they were bloody lucky!!!
3.A chip on my shoulder? I don't make decisions for EI nor should I be held accountable for any decisions made. I have a right to be annoyed at management per se. EI should do well, a lot of jobs outside DUB depend on all the business generated by EI. If somebody was badmouthing your firm with half-hearted-non-factual-heard-last-week-in-the-pub stories.would you not feel somewhat annoyed? Since when did an EI CCM "vent" their "anger" at you (or anyone else you know EI EIO?)
I mean if you know so much about what is going on how about a constructive submission rather than taking the easy way out and jumping on the EI bandwagon!
I don't think your endless circle of blame is a real state of affairs either, things may need to change but there are people paid to make those decisions and I await those. Like anyone else does.

[CaptSensible]

minuteman; EI-EIO asserts that;
...you too, seem to have, the Aer Lingus "Its not my fault, its my Managers " Attitude I am talking about.

I have just two words in response.

MICHAEL. FOLEY.

[minuteman]

Who says I don't have a right to be angry?!!?

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
Having travelled on EI as both civvie and member of staff,I have to agree with some of the posted comments.I have met CCMs who were excellent and personified all the good,positive things about EI and being Irish in general.On the other hand,I have met EI CCMs who have been downright rude,offhand,surly,etc.and did no favours for their airline or their country.I have also seen quite a few examples of CCMs/Check-in staff favouring their buddies for prime seats(I was almost bumped off my honeymoon flight to LAX by one check-in character in favour of her mates until I kicked up a fuss).I was also on the recieving end of offhand/surly until I produced my ID and then all was sweetness and light! So,it's swings and roundabouts.Personally,I wouldn't be a CCM for gold dust;it's not remotely as good/rewarding/glamourous as it's cracked up to be and they have to put up with a huge amount of **** from the travelling public.
Re.the MF remark: there is a strong body of opinion out there that the man was shafted.EI is badly in need of overhauling at all levels,not least on sexual harassment/bullying.Fatso has been very quiet of late;maybe it's time for him to open his jaw and let us all know where we stand,instead of perpetuating the usual mushroom syndrome.
regards
TDD

[Bluehair]

Foley was undoubtably shafted and in no small way it was this that contributed to my decision to leave the airline.

Historically we have always had a very poor and politically weighted management. This has been a prime factor in producing the Aer Lingus we see today.

Foley had potential and a lot of staff (myself included) were behind him and his ideas. He sidelined a lot of the old school and had certain bodies removed even against the political objections. This created a lot of goodwill amongst staff since there was a feeling that there genuinely was change for better happening.

Then they shafted him.

By doing so not only did the poxy old school of "this is how we've *always* done it so why should we change" screw over their best chance for developing and expanding the airline but i'm convinced they actually hammered the first nail in the coffin of this pround airline.

Sabena may be the first to go but i am sad to say Aer Lingus will not be far behind :(

[CaptSensible]

Excuse me one moment here.
Check-in staff?...are you seriously lumping the check-in staff into the 'Crew' argument?

So it's obvious we didn't understand each other then!

Check-in staff are not to be lumped in with crew. They are not to be used by you to berate 'crew'.

They aren't crew. They are clerks!

And I happen to agree with you on the subject of their attitude to aircrew. They recently decided...all on their own bat...to put a notice up at the standby desk in Dublin saying that NON ALT staff could not ask for jumpseats anymore!! An Aer Lingus Captain heard about this notice and personally went up to the counter and asked (nay..told!) them to remove it!

Senior Aer Lingus pilots are left standing at that same standby desk while the clerks cater to their friends and family...so don't think we aren't sympathetic to your plight.

Aer Lingus cockpit crew have always been happy to share their J/Seats with other carriers staff.

EI EIO, you seem to have accepted my point.

[EI - E I - O]

Captain Sensible- Your point about the flexability is valid. If thats all AL can offer then it should be called Flexi -Class not premier, but and where do they get those eggs from????

I was making a point that it is now probably, more attractive for B/C pax to travel to LHR or LGW, rather that to look at your mother in Law, from SNN, for 10 hours on an EI - flight!!

At least on VA/AA & BA you actually feel as if its O.K. to be on the flight and that the crew are not putting themselves out, by catering for me, not like our AL friends do!

As for Micheal Foley, I actually think its tragic, he could of turned around things, and I have no doubt there is a hidden agenda there, and MF, will pull his Trump card from up his sleeve, when the time comes.

I believe, he is innocent, and I will say no more than that, "a woman scorned is a very dangerous thing". Some of you know whatI mean, but thats Foleys business, and good luck to him, when the time comes!

[pruner60]

Its a sad state of affairs to see EI-EI-O slagging the national carrier when judging by all of his remarks, you dont seem to travel with anyone else!!!!! By the sound of things its you!!!!....that one in a millon who can never be happy with what he has but always wants more........i think they call it .......spoiled! :cool: spoiled

[akerosid]

Reading through the various posts, one would think Aer Lingus is on its last legs. Okay, it's going to make a loss this year - probably not more than £20m, not good, but not life threatening. It's been through worse and while it's true, the market has changed against national carriers and handouts, I don't think one could honestly put EI in the same basket as SN.

First of all, look at Belgium, centre of Europe, the EU, NATO, all the carriages of the gravy train - with all the premium class travel that goes with that. It had the advantage of open skies (something Aer Lingus still doesn't have), it splurged on new aircraft it must have known it couldn't pay for (no doubt expecting SR to), it never made the list of airlines people would really like to fly with (on quite a few occasions being towards the bottom of the list), it got astronomically more in the way of state handouts to Aer Lingus and operated a huge network to former colonies and francophone Africa, which let's face it, is nto a lucrative market.

Now, compare to EI, small market - fairly poor for most of its history, fighting the government's half-arsed and politically "driven" aviation policy - always cautious (some would say over-cautious) in opening new routes. Yes, it got over-staffed - was this really EI's fault? EI has had a lot of visionary people the full extent of whose vision was effectively blunted by politicos.
It developed a good, commuter operation, it built up a fine t/a operation when circumstances allowed it and when it's given a truly free hand, it will do so again.

Although I don't work for EI, I've watched its development and all things considered, it is a much better than average airline and particularly so, given the constraints within which it has to operate. Sure, it looks as if Foley was shafted and there are quite a few problems, but if EI can sort out its problems, build a decent hub at Dublin and continue to work on its pax service (which have always been good; it's just never been a great innovator), I see no reason why it can't be a very good carrier.

[EI - E I - O]

Pruner 60, welcome to the forum, congrats on your first post! Good luck with the PPL!

Spoilt with AL? Gwan outa that. I think its you who should get out and try a bit of diversity with your travel. I have travelled, with all the main carriers over the last couple of years and, I think I can make a fair accessment of AL and their services. But then again, the other carriers, have'nt got the potential AL have for warm customer service!
After all, if you do not have Customer Service, what makes any of the airlines different from each other?

Its now taken completely, for granted, the a/c is going to get there safely, on time and so what ? if I have evolved into expecting a bit more, even if I cannot get it! But thats only looking for perfection.

Ahh Aer Lingus is a GREAT AIRLINE - REALLY!

Good luck in the shake up. I hope ALL the EI staff get the "LUMP" You are looking for!!!

[pruner60]

Thanks EI-EI-O for the good luck with ppl...but sorry to burst your bubble......try frozen atpl ,737400 with 530 hours on type!!. P.S. Thats a great name you have from the Lucan area.!!!! :p

[INLAK]

pruner60, are you a 4? ;)

[Bearcat]

is that a brag or a slag with 540hrs, when you got 13540hrs then you can brag,,,,,pruner 40 off to weston for more circuits!

[Blended-winglets]

Just a question to you shamrock chaps and chapesses, the bond that you initially have with Lingus i.e over three years, wel if after two and a half years you go onto another type say 737,A320 then are you rebonded onthe new type for another three years?

[CaptSensible]

No. Why should they?

This isn't Singapore.

Yet.

However, you do get a type 'Freeze' when moving from type to type (usually 3 years, but this can be further increased at the whim of management)...which serves the same function as far as the company is concerned, by making sure to get value for money out of their investment (your rating) no matter how high your seniority number happens to be.

[Flame]

OK Guys;

In a small effort to try and get back to the subject (Direct Track) how about these snippets of info on possible more upcoming changes at EIN....

Change of USA West coast services to Oakland (SFO) instead of LAX...reason being apparently, nearly %99 of pax on the 145 are stopping at LAX on not going further..

Restarting service to Canada, remember the 70's and DUB-SNN-Montreal

:p

[akerosid]

Interesting information, but I think they will need a fairly dramatic change in the Canadian bilateral (which, if I'm not mistaken, still requires stopovers in both directions like the old US rule, hence no direct scheduled flights now) before any scheduled route to Canada is flown. They will want to fly nonstop to YYZ; YUL is not of interest.

As for LAX, I had heard rumours of San Jose, which is an AAL hub (which would make sense); SFO is San Francisco and OAK is Oakland, which currently has no direct international flights, so SJC sounds more realistic. Also, if LAX is doing well, irrespective of whether flights are connecting, why worry?

[Crusty Ol Cap'n]

You guys are using old rumour material!

EI can not apply for new routes. The US bilateral precludes this because of restrictive practices, ie. compulsory stop at EINN. It is possible to be invited to provide a service outside of the bilateral, but this must come from the yanks. This is how KBWI came about. Any other destination in the US would require a similar invitation.

[Bluehair]

Such an offer was 'unoffically' extended already hence the rumours about the route. Bernie himself payed a visit there last year to suss things out.

It's all rather academic anyway since the U.S. downturn makes SJC suddenly much less attractive than it appeared this time last year.

[Flossie]

Latest rumour to hit the streets is that the Shamrock will be seen in the Antipodes this winter operating LA Hawaii and onwards on a Wet lease.....watch this space!