Dubai / UAE

[TheFalcon]

There is no doubt that in terms of money there is nowhere better to be than Dubai (even with just 3% increase). As for lifestyle it all depends what you are in for. This place which resembles nothing else but a plastic jungle, is nice if you like shopping and hanging out. If you are the outdoor type then you are locked in for 6 months a year. Of course you can play golf at this time of the year (get a good deal) and get a third degree sunburn or die of severe dehydration. I guess if you are from the U.K. or anywhere really north its much much better than the dreary drizzle and the cloudy skies you get home.

Still noone can deny its a country with no soul and I have heard it so many times now I cannot but agree wholeheartedly.

[The Jolly Roger]

Holy Crap......ye are a Jolly bunch (pardon the intended pun!!!!)

Do I hear the subtle sound of someones rattle being flung to the floor??? Did someone crap their nappy???

I completely agree with Yellow Snow and Tower Ranger....We've heard it ALL before. You won't get a better lifestyle, (well you probably will, but, i'm here and not there!!). Your earning damn good money here. High cost
of living my arse! Yes there are issues such as the high cost of schooling, etc. But you tell me you'd be better off back at home. Well? I think not. Many of my buddies are envious of the position i'm in given the circumstances elsewhere. I say again...if your not happy, go home! Its that simple...

Now i'm off to the beach to watch the sunset......

[prowler]

It would be ideal if one knows the FAA SALARIES... & then certainly one comes to grips to reality, as they are much better than the Salaries here...

The difference lies in the so called 'tax-free' world we are in.......

'tax-free'......... on income ONLY!

[Scooby Don't]

FAA salaries so much better??? I think not, especially not on an hourly basis! Sure there are probably some on $200,000 a year (also in Canada) but that means a LOT of overtime and way less leave to start with. Also consider the difference between the old FAA salaries and that being applied to new joiners.

If you have a straight choice between Serco Dubai and NATS, I'd pick Dubai every time.

[prowler]

@ANSA

You're barking up the wrong tree if you say the FAA conditions are better than the UAE

You really need to learn how to read in between the lines!

Try again......:}

[ISaidRightTurns]

I was old pay scale FAA - one of the highest paid employees at the busiest facilities. I take home more money in the UAE and spend more quality time with my family in the states now ( a couple of uninterupted weeks a year).

And to the Verci guy - I've been here for 9 months. I've never met you. I'm sure you think your past presence here is some great talking point/story/bar tale - but you are a nobody here. I don't know your real name. All I know is that when I looked at moving here all I found was negative stuff by you. I fear alot of people see your negative posts and think it's real. Fortunately, you don't seem to know what your talking about. Please shut up and stop talking about OUR unit. Not yours. You are gone.

[sandyweazels]

ISaid...

You da man!! Well summed up, the Vercibindorkeswankurus is as unwelcome now as he was then! :D

[Yellow Snow]

Yes!

At last this thread has got interesting again, instead of all the crap that's been on here for the past few months.

[Tin-Bullet]

We all know what kinda sh!t NATS offers to its staff...somehow the PENSION comes to my mind, so we do not even want to go there!

I agree with most of you about the 3% & the other 5% increase, is somewhat :D , as we all know in what financial crisis the world is in. However, one must also remember that we were verbally told that a potential increase would reflect the inflation +/- around 10%, AND FROM 1st JANUARY 2009.....

Or is it that some of us have forgotten this?

Anyway, 'beggars can't be choosers', we are all riding the same wave, & hopefully things will turn for the better around us!

What our mates down @ DWC have gone through is rather harsh, but let's really see when this Mega Airport (if it will really be MEGA) will finally open...

And what does our CONTRACT really mean? just a piece of paper???? ready to be binned?

[TheFalcon]

You really hit the nail on the head Tin-bullet there. We were promised at least 10% from January and I am one who did not forget that. Now all the office guys get 5% while we sweat it out with three. Not bad!!

As for the contract's worth, just ask the DWC guys what they were promised (over and over again) and what they got eventually, it says a lot about Serco and its management.

Serco will always be a profit making company but if it starts playing about with contracts as it feels best then we are going to go back to the times when people were not even thinking of coming here.

Still a good deal for now but ears and eyes open for whom you cannot trust!

[prowler]

@TheFalcon
180:D:D:D

[TheFalcon]

Verci - Its summer have a holiday. Don't get so worked up on ghosts of Xmas past, Whats your point anyway you are getting boring!

ANSA - we would like this thread to be about Dubai really. Slagging matches etc for the lobby please.

Thanks guys.

[ferris]

The last scene from the play "Yesterdays Man; a study of impotence, ineffectiveness, failure and bitterness".

Ensemble (puzzled): "Iain who?"

Long silence, punctuated by the sound of tumbleweeds tossed in the wind.

Curtain.

The End.

[Guy D'ageradar]

Verci,

For God's sake, give it a rest.

If you have nothing better to say than the usual invective re: the DANS and his adviser (we all know they're TW*TS, you don't have top keep telling us) and/or pushing the Aussies' buttons, then please do take a holiday, enjoy the theakstones and let the rest of us have a civilised conversation without your incessant interruptions. :mad:

Whether you like it or not, the lunatics are running the asylum. You may no longer be an inmate but others here are and prefer to do what they can to improve the system as and where possible. Don't knock them for that.

Ferris

Priceless :ok:

[sandyweazels]

:sad: Ummmm...Verci, I got a call from the Samaritans and they said you were in here talking to yourself and to drop a line and see how you are getting on.

I volunteer for them and having also been described as a complete joke in management before my breakdown, know what you are going through.

The 2nd last stage of social disgrace and helplessness (The last stage is advocating that you were once a controller in Heathrow which will be just embarrassing for everyone concerned!) is venting on Pprune hoping that poetry and outdated sad stories of your plight will get you back on the pedestal.

Unfortunately by all accounts you never have, was or will be anything but a tick on the back of a mongrel dog sniffing the skip bins in Khalifa city.

Please, please call us now on 02 4054590 and talk to one of our operators who will quite gladly tell you where to go.

:rolleyes:

[trailblazer]

1. My interruptions are not incessant but are extremely pertinent.
2. They highlight extreme matters of concern to the greater traveling public and not just a little closed shop of ATC to be brushed under the carpet.

Do you have the time to listen to me whine
About nothing and everything all at once
I am one of those
Melodramatic fools
Neurotic to the bone
No doubt about it

Sometimes I give myself the creeps
Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me
It all keeps adding up
I think I'm cracking up

Am I just paranoid?
Or I'm just stoned

I went to a shrink
To analyze my dreams
She says it's lack of sex that's bringing me down
I went to a whore
She said my life's a bore
And quit my whining cause it's bringing her down

Sometimes I give myself the creeps
Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me
It all keeps adding up
I think I'm cracking up

Am I just paranoid?
Or I'm just stoned

Grasping to control
So I better hold on

Sometimes I give myself the creeps
Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me
It all keeps adding up
I think I'm cracking up
Am I just paranoid?
Or I'm just stoned

[ferris]

Jors, as you are well aware, most here tolerated Verci's rants back when they contained information. I use the word 'tolerated' because we all know that he is a coward. Before he was dismissed due to incompetence, he was gleefully part of Stromboli's empire ie. a talentless boot-licker too afraid to open his mouth, and only too eager to do Stromboli's bidding. Now that he has died by the sword that he lived by, he is bleating relentlessly here on pprune, sniping impotently from afar. As his posts contain less information/outright disinformation these days (his source obviously got the chop, too), and have descended into little more than ultra-repetitive, theakstones-induced rants, I guess the tolerance level will decrease.

BTW, Verci, someone who sends PMs threatening to pay thugs to beat up/'take care of' others is a text-book coward. Schoolboy-mentality cowardice. Sums you up, really.

[sandyweazels]

Ferris, you are wasting your breath explaining it to Jors.

Just direct it to Verci, its the same guy.... I mean its gotta be, who else is going to defend him! :}

[Fox3snapshot]

Go Verci.. keep up the good work. Every Don Quixote needs a Panza and if tilting at windmills helps to retain sanity then I say go for it!

Wreaks of Verci....:E

But I have to say I am getting dizzy here, this thread just keeps going round, and round and...well you get the idea! :ooh:

[Baileys]

I am an innocent bystander but agree that it's a little bit amusing.

[Kattar Kid]

Friends of mine in UAE center (and close to them) say that Verci has more of his finger to the pulse than he did when he was MATCO!:eek:
They also say that that is not saying too much:ugh:

Remember what the Harvard Medical School says about the stages of grief and loss (in this case loss of his job):

1. Disbelief
2. Yearning
3. Anger
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

It would seem that he is right in the middle parts of stage 3 with his bitter attacks on several opposing viewpoints.
Come on fellows, help him through this process, it isn't far to go before he is depressed and then accepts what has happened.

Verci, you have made your position on all matters pertaining to UAE center (some would say be-labored them) they are on record for everyone to see. You do yourself a disservice to attack those now in these jobs (especially the racist remarks) and it reeks of sour grapes to the outsider.:yuk:
It is time to step back from these continuing attacks as they should be unworthy of you.

hayyak

[Bongodingo]

I see this thread is on a smoke break.

I'm a tower and approach rated controller working in Kuwait. I have monitored this forum for sometime and understand that hiring is temporarily at a standstill. I am wondering if being able to catch a quick flight over, and meeting management would help on acquiring any upcoming hiring slots?

[prowler]

Bongodingo,

it depends which facility you are interested in working at. However if you are interested in Dubai/Jebel Ali then go to the link below, as in the thread which you originally posted, has ended as UAE ACC 'personal tick-tack' match.....

check this out;

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/377153-dubai-uae-thread-without-baggage.html

Otherwise, I suggest you try again in this post, if you are more specific to other facilities in the UAE.

[Bongodingo]

:ok:

Reposting in new thread Prowler...

Cheers

[Shart]

Wow, that was epic.

[westausatc]

Prowler,

Will follow your advice. Posted on another thread and got nothing...

I am enroute radar controller in Aus, been doing it for 4.5 years or so. Coming up to end of my bond in first half of next year so am looking at options overseas (cancelling SY APP's rec leave for 3 months was SUCH a good move... :rolleyes:) and am looking at UAE. Have a few questions though that I hope to be able to get some help with.

Firstly, for area radar, my understanding is that is only in Abu Dhabi - is that correct? Also, is it only provided by GCAA or are Serco/someone else in on it too?

Flight Global website has some details on what would be offered. It appears that all the allowances (housing, education, etc.) have been rolled into one monthly payment and there is only medical provided on top of that, plus a bonus. Anyone know any more about this? Is it comparable to the previous package with everything separated? Any idea what the story with the bonus is?

Have heaps of other questions but will wait to see if this gets a response first.

Cheers!

[The Jolly Roger]

Hello WestAus,

Just saw your thread mate so I'll answer your questions as best I can.

The ACC is in Abu Dhabi. Just moved into the new Sheikh Zayed Centre in July. It is the only Area centre in the country. Others in the region are Bahrain, Oman (Muscat to be precise who are also recruiting right now), and Doha which is APP/TWR only.

Two companies provide the service. Primarily the GCAA and then SERCO. GCAA contract SERCO to provide a certain number of controllers and Engineers at the Centre. GCAA and SERCO packages differ slightly. At the end of the day, if you are with GCAA you have more money in your pocket at the end of the month. I won't go into the details here. Packages are generally all inclusive plus Medical benefits. GCAA hav capped their housing allowance at 150kAED per year paid in two installments. SERCO give you an allowance up to 200kAED per year, both deducted from salary. It seems a lot but rents have been decreasing here and will decrease further over time. GCAA offer bonuses to their staff, I think twice yearly (open to correction), equal to one months basic salary. Us SERCO dogs don't get that one!!! (hint hint!!!). Lifestyle is great and I certainly won't be leaving here anytime soon.

If you have kids, you must cough up a stupid amount of money for schooling. It varies between abou 18k per year per child in Dubai and Au Dhabi to around 60k pere year per child. Maybe even more. (Can't advise on this one bud as I'm still a fan of Durex!!!!!)

Overall the work is great and you'll really enjoy yourself here as long as you can put aside all the things that will make you itch and scream.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. I'll do me best.

Now back to the beach.......:cool:

[westausatc]

Thanks me matey! Hope you had a good 'International Talk Like A Pirate' Day! :ok: and will do on the PMs....

[Vercingetorix]

Hi Jors

1. Verci seems to be pushing certain peoples buttons and that I find him amusing in a Borat kind of way. You know - says and does totally insane and outrageous stuff that should be either laughed at or ignored, yet he still manages to ruffle some feathers.
2. but no, you keep buying his tickets
3. It appears that you're all so wrapped up in this nonsense that you all think someone else is someone else who's masquerading as someone else and the dirty laundry justs keeps flapping.

Never were 'Troolier' words spoken.

It's fun to push buttons and provide amusement at the same time.
Can only surmise that the response to 'button pushing' is because of the underlying truth.:ouch:
I quote from a recent correspondence with the MATCO on the subject "we have just done what the Irish, Australians and Swedes were not able to do, and that is a transition to a new centre without full system failure. We achieved what those centres plus many more failed to achieve by transtioning to an advanced ATC system without a full system failure".
(The Italicised spelling is that of the MATCO).

That explains the recent power outage then and the attendent firing of the duty engineer to cover up managment failures. Uhm:ugh:

Kattar Kid

Friends of mine in UAE center (and close to them) say that Verci has more of his finger to the pulse than he did when he was MATCO!

In other words, unsubstantiated second hand vicarious untruths.

However, can only say that it is difficult to have any sort of pulse when Stromboli has his foot on one's carotid artery!!

Also, that's a big No No to Nos 1 - 5. Hard to go with No 4, especially when sitting on a beach with an evenly balanced diet, i.e. glass of champagne in either hand.

P.S. Re racist remarks, := I used to only know lager spelt one way but since encountering the then Training section I now know that in Afrikaans there are two spellings. i.e. lager & laager. I like the former but not the latter nor the attitudes associated with it.
N.B. Don't forget that my wife is an asian babe.:cool:
Wonder how that would go down on a holiday in Seff Afrika, not!!
Also check out MATCO's comments above re Irish, Australians and Swedes!!


Cheers to all my readers.

To infinty and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for a pint of Theakstones Old Peculiar.

[westausatc]

ANSA,

Thanks for that. How often does the bonus get paid? Is it generally paid or withheld as a carrot for the next year?

Have seen that there is an Aussie school in Abu Dhabi - any info on it? At this stage, any move will only be for a short term and so would prefer to keep the kids going with their current curriculum if we can.

And when you talk pros and cons, I assume you mean going with Serco versus GCAA and not pros/cons about going to the sandpit at all??? If so, have some reading to do! :}

Any idea how long the waiting list is for either? If they are advertising does that mean they have run through their current list and are topping it up? Might sound like ridiculous questions but I have no idea how they recruit people (was lucky enough to basically walk into the RAAF and then from there to AsA) so just trying to get some background info.

[Vercingetorix]

Hi Jolly:ok:
Nope, you can never have too much of a good thing.
Been working on a project with not enough idle moments to allow for Ppruning.
Hard to believe, I know, but there you go.
Now, it's time again for the sport of 'button pushing'.

Cheers

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for a pint of Spitfire (just for a change).

N.B.
1. Ferris, a bit over familiar there with first names.:= I don't recall that we were ever properly introduced as is the custom in polite circles, but then you don't move in such. Keep your head down in Bahrain. I'm scheduled to pop over there soon.

2. The Falcon, the point is to highlight the 'Climate of fear" induced in the ANS section of the GCAA by respectively: Stromboli, El Stupido aka Pinocchio and Jack Boots. The firing of two of the engineering staff in quick succession is not indicative of good managment skills, but then, hey, ANSA:sad: trots out the party line that all is a bed of roses there.
Uhm, don't think so!:eek:

3. Re Stromboli & El Stupido the appropriate comparison in terms of honourable behaviour would be to Briatore and Symonds

[westausatc]

ANSA,

Thanks for your reply. Really appreciate it! :ok:

Have started reading the previous umpteen pages to read the pros/cons of GCAA v Serco so will have a good idea shortly.

Are you with GCAA and have family? If so, mind if I PM you for some info?

Cheers!

[Vercingetorix]

Hi Jors
Re UAE ACC:

A new sector is being introduced in three days time.
Under ICAO guidance re Standards and Recommended Practices a SMS risk assessment should have been undertaken following which the results would have been analysed and any new procedures amended accordingly. Thereafter, the results would have undergone a trial period in the simulator.
:confused:
However, Stromboli and his puppet Pinocchio deem this as an unnecessary waste of time and an affront to their combined intellect as they think that it (their intellect) is of such high level that they have foreseen all the pitfalls, etc.

Accordingly, the sector is being introduced by SATI (Supplementary & Tempory Instruction) without a SMS case or trial.:ooh:

All I can say is Thank God these two clowns neither fly nor are involved in any active controlling.

As is normal it will be left to the 'coal face controllers' to make it work.

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for that glass of Champagne,

Now, where's that Start Button!:eek:

[Chatz]

Hi,

I'm coming over to Dubai for an interview with GAL. Any tips I should keep in mind? Are they many women working in ATC positions over there?

[Guy D'ageradar]

Chatz,

Not sure about GAL although I think I maz have heard one or two but know of 3 at UAE ACC, 2 at Sharjah and half a dozen or so here in Dubai.

[prascho]

Have I to visit Abu Dhabi to contact whit GCAA and to aply my app for the position of an En-Route ATC or there is other opportunity?
If so, could u give me any GCAA contact details?
Tnx in advance guys!

[Fox3snapshot]

Guy: 3 at UAE ACC?????

Not on our turf mate....they are at the military contracts, not civil. The only remotely civil operation might be Bateen which is joint user.

UAE ACC is a GAL free zone :E

[10 DME ARC]

Fox -Guy was talking about women controllers! I hope you have women in UAE ACC if not I would be very worried about the person on North last night!!:uhoh:

[No Further Requirements]

UAE ACC is a GAL free zone

Humour on so many levels mate.....:ok:

Cheers,

NFR.

[Vercingetorix]

ANSA
Re your post no 285 from which I quote:

"Full Safety Case done by the SMS Manager and submitted to the Regulator for approval. The regulator reviewed the safety case and approved the plan for transition (as they did for the system transition in June last year which was again pre-empted with a full safety case which was reviewed three times at the request of the regulator until suitable for approval). The regulator is definitely not under the thumb of ANS, in fact quite the contrary, as they ride us hard about a lot of issues, which I think is a good thing, and the way it should be.

Things were in a mess here for a multitude of reasons, of which Verci was one, and we appear to be getting things right. I will let the people who work here every day and are effected by these changes speak for themselves though. I'm done with PPRuNe, enjoy".

As usual, complete nonsense.

1. You're not done with Pprune as you continue to post.

2. Things were in a mess here for a multitude of reasons, of which Verci was one, and we appear to be getting things right.
I don't remember you making any significant contribution other than to say "Yes Sir, How would you like that done, Sir. Can I wipe your a**, Sir". You were a sniveling little ar*e creeper then and haven't changed your spots since working with the 'Gruesome twosome'. It would appear that you are consanguineous.

3. "Full Safety Case done by the SMS Manager and submitted to the Regulator for approval". Uhm, how does that equate with the new sector introduction. You're worse than Tony Bliar. N.B. see above 'a full safety case which was reviewed three times at the request of the regulator until suitable for approval' Possibly 'cos your SMS case was crap?

4. The Regulator is totally under the thumb of the Advisor to the DANS, as you well know. If you remember from your ar*e licking days the Dane stopped him writing memos and letters as he couldn't do joined up writing. I had to cross check all his output. For a definitive answer re ar*e licking check with either the training section or the regulator. They'll put you straight.

5. If 'Verci was one' as you claim:
a. How come it took you two 1/2 years to catch up with the LATSI.
b. How come it took you three years to get an SMS in place having lost or denied the existence of the original unit SMS manual.

6. Don't seem to remember anyone getting fired during my tenure!!

7. Now having got an SMS in place, as you so eloquently put it, how come you didn't use it for the new sector procedures?

Essentially, my little Sunbeam, you're claiming credit for things that were in place before you were 'selected!' for the position. The previous SATCO (Bless the little fellow) is a good guy who did a fair amount of work and I see you as falsely claiming both his and my input.

If you have specific negative comments to make concerning either his or my input I suggest that you put them in writing on the forum for open discussion.

'What is very sad is when people who should know better choose to go after people and don't argue the issues.:=
'Frankly, if you start going for the person that's a tacit admission that you've lost the argument. I find that nothing short of pathetic.'

Now, following your recent little spat with Pinocchio & Stromboli, I would suggest that you start looking for pastures new, i.e. Bahrain. (I hear that you have taken an option there already). Both Pinocchio & Stromboli are vindictive little gits of the first order so I would be planning an exit strategy if I were in your position.

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for a pint of Theakstones Old Peculiar.

P.S. Your quote (again, groan); N.B. For you and Ferris to be talking to each other, considering his opinion of you, quite takes the biscuit as we say in Dear Old Blighty.
"Instead we can just sit back and enjoy seeing our boys retain the ashes 4-1 this year in Pommie Land. Time much better spent"

Schadenfreude is the word that springs to mind,
good luck with any future career.:ok:

Addendum re Stromboli.

This is the man who was in charge when:

1. The ACC transferred from the OMAA APP room to the Bateen site - oops! Failure. It had to revert to OMAA due SNAFU. (He tried to blame that on Serco but couldn't make it stick).
2. The ACC had a major power outage - oops! Failure. He was the man who drew up the power plans and was responsible for putting in outdated back up generators.
3. The recent power outage at the new SZC - oops! Failure.

Bit of a pattern emerging as to his competence but, hey MATCO, give him a kiss and tell him he's wonderful but don't let Pinocchio see you otherwise he may get jealous. xxx

LoL:uhoh:

[Vercingetorix]

Ferris
or should I say
PricK

Lol.

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for a pint of Theakstones Old Peculiar.

LoL:p

[trailblazer]

Looks like someone decided it was time for attention again and decided to start shouting. Normally I see 4 year old kids doing that, but each to his own:ok:

[Vercingetorix]

Trailfollower
surprised that you have the attention span to read it, never mind retain and understand what was written.
You, with your lazy stupid approach, are a significant part of the problem.

Sunbeam, you're a dull bug*er. xxx:bored:
Suggest Sex & Travel
N.B. As Jors said 'button pushing' and you rise to the bait, as ever. Duh!!

[trailblazer]

Dr. dr. help me please, I know youll understand
Theres a time device inside of me, Im a self-destructin man
Theres a red, under my bed
And theres a little green man in my head
And he said, youre not goin crazy, youre just a bit sad
cause theres a man in ya, knawin ya, tearin ya into two.

Silly boy ya self-destroyer.
Paranoia, the destroyer

Self-destroyer, wreck your health
Destroy friends, destroy yourself
The time device of self-destruction
Light the fuse and start eruption

(yea, it goes like this, here it goes)
Paranoia, the destroyer
(heres to paranoia)
Paranoia, the destroyer
(hey hey, here it goes)
Paranoia, the destroyer
(and it goes like this)

Paranoia, the destroyer
(and it goes like this.)

[Fox3snapshot]

:p Nope we definitely got Girlies but none of the GALs !!!

And 10 DME that sorry that was me on North, had an incident with my headset cord as I sat down!! :\

[ISaidRightTurns]

<snipet>
Psychiatrists have developed several stalker profiles:
The rejected stalker. This person was rejected in a relationship, and they perceive it as an insult, they feel wounded, and they are seeking vindication.
The resentful stalker. These are self-righteous, self-pitying people who may threaten, but they are the least likely to act on it.
The intimacy-seeking stalker. They believe they are loved or will be loved by the victim. Often they focus on someone of higher social status. This person is mentally ill and delusional.
The incompetent. This person is socially backward. He doesn't really understand the social rules involved in dating and romance. He doesn't mean any harm.
</snipet>

Ref: Mind of a stalker
(http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50316)

[Yippee]

Do they test ATCO:s for NPD nowadays?

Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder)

NPD persons use these as their central defence mechanisms.
Splitting (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology))
Idealization and devaluation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealization_and_devaluation)
Denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial)
Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)
Defence mechanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanism)
That is the reason they are prone to be very hard to heal.
And very clever NPD persons pass the tests unnoticed.

Sometimes they can only be "spotted" when they cause "bad moods" or "bad feelings" or "chaos and havoc" among the people they interact with.

About denial. The "funny" denial mechanism is "denial of denial":
Denial of denial: This can be a difficult concept for many people to identify with in themselves, but is a major barrier to changing hurtful behaviors. Denial of denial involves thoughts, actions and behaviors which bolster confidence that nothing needs to be changed in one's personal behavior. This form of denial typically overlaps with all of the other forms of denial, but involves more self-delusion.


About classifications:

Five (or more) of the following criteria must be met:

1. Feels grandiose and self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements);

2. Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;

3. Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);

4. Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);

5. Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations;

6. Is “interpersonally exploitative”, i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;

7. Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others;

8. Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her;

9. Arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted.



Sometimes they are really nasty:
DARVO: An acronym to describe common strategy of abusers: Deny the abuse, then Attack the victim for attempting to make them accountable for their offense, thereby Reversing Victim and Offender. Psychologist Jennifer Freyd. writes:
"...I have observed that actual abusers threaten, bully and make a nightmare for anyone who holds them accountable or asks them to change their abusive behavior. This attack, intended to chill and terrify, typically includes intimidation, overt and covert attacks on the whistle-blower's credibility, and so on..... [T]he offender rapidly creates the impression that the whistle-blower is the wronged one, while the victim or concerned observer is depicted as the offender. Figure and ground are completely reversed... The offender is on the offense and the person attempting to hold the offender accountable is put on the defense.

Quite soon it is very very easy to see through NPD persons. Then just look completely other way. The thing they fear most is the lack of attention. Sometimes any kind of attention is OK for NPD persons. Admiration, hatred, despise, any emotional response,just name it. Just turn your attention completely away from them. Turn your emotional respense to zero with them. No "flaming". No "freezing", just complete "emotional zero". And they'll escape fast. Tangentially. It is very easy. Just a little practise. And it works.

A good metaphor is that they try to "steal energy" where they can. Then they use this "energy" or "attention" or "happiness of others"; whatever name you want to give it, for their own reasons. Often they use it to "light their light" brighter or to inflate their own ego bigger. Not always. Google "narcistic supply" for more info. They are like emotional black holes, if you let them be that to you.

http://thesamerowdycrowd.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/black-hole.jpg

And hey, we all have "healthy narcissism".
Healthy Narcissism (http://www.narcissism101.com/Narcissism_101/healthynarcissism.html)
Narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism)
Narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism#Healthy_narcissism)

Pointing is pointless.
Judging is just waste of time. Let the judges earn their salaries.
Blaming and accusing and prosecuting is pointless. Let the prosecutors earn their salaries also.;)

There are experts that think that we all have some milder or even more milder traits that resemble NPD behaviours. From time to time. Especially when there is high levels of pressures or prolonged mental pressures or when tired etc. The marvelous point is that when you are aware of this you can choose different behaviours. Every time. Quite soon they become new habits.
"You're going to reap just what you sow..." Lou Reed - Perfect Day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJpQJWpVJds&feature=related)
Sorry, about the advert. I do not work for the company advertised on the vid.
Here is the same song without the ad:
Lou Reed - Perfect Day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYEC4TZsy-Y&feature=fvw)

One thing is for sure. The managers are not tested. Anywhere. ;)
Yet.

[Chatz]

thanks, gotta love the GAL reference. Very original. :D

[The Jolly Roger]

3 at UAE ACC

Right lads...which one of you Maxwell Klingers is wearin a frock???

I hope you have women in UAE ACC if not I would be very worried about the person on North last night!!

Nothing to worry about there 10.....standard voice changes due to strapping in tightly to North and West for the adrenaline rush!! :eek:

[Vercingetorix]

Isaid RightTurd
Interesting that none of you have actually addressed the problem as to why engineers are being fired, but then hey, as ATCOs being superior personages (!), you don't give a fcuk:
Q.
1. Why are engineers being fired? Is it that they are incompetent, or is it that Serco/GCAA are recuiting incompetent people?" Doubt it.
Surely the selection process should be looked at and any blame should be laid at the feet of management. (ANSA, where are you, doing an Obama and fence sitting as usual).
2. Why did the ACC power system have an outage if the "SMS" was prescient?
3. Why has the MATCO not replied to the concern of his little "spat" with the 'Twins?'

Again, I say: What is very sad is when people who should know better choose to go after people and don't argue the issues, 'Frankly, if you start going for the person that's a tacit admission that you've lost the argument. I find that nothing short of pathetic.'

Yipee,
good research. Very impressive and for the average ATCO well above the median. 10/10+

Narcissism is not the issue.
The issue is the incompetence of Pinocchio & his mentor Stromboli. Neither are qualified to do what they do. They rule by fear. Pinocchio is fundamentally stupid (I trained him and got him through his initial ATCO validation) and Stromboli, while not so stupid, is locked into what they did in EKCH 35 yrs ago.

Now, Yipee and ISadRightTurd, look at the problem and address it.
In the mean time whlie Stromboli & his catamite puppy Pinocchio continue in their miscreant ways ask why Stromoli uses a non standard LoA with adjacent units. ICAO has a standard LoA format but Stromboli, with his superior(?) intellect chooses to use his own. WOW!

So, my little detractors, ask why the place is so NON ICAO compliant and further ask what would happen if you were ever in a serious incident or even, God Forbid, an airhit situation.
Ans. Under this regime you would be toast and on your own.

No one is doubting your personal competency as controllers but what I would doubt is the integrity of your employers in a difficult situation.

Keep looking over your shoulder.
Ciao Bambini:ok:

Paranoia, remember Stromboli and Pinocchio are out to get you to protect to their sorry liittle asses.
Actually, further to that that, brings recall of a memory in which Stromboli made mention of someones's sorry little ass.
Perhaps that makes sense of his selection of the HODs of TRN & SRG!!! He's very fleet of foot!! Nudge, nudge, wink, nod!!!!

Addendum.
Now,basically I don't give a flying fcuk what you silly little buggers think. I only care for the standard and quality of the unit, which is currently being degraded on an international scale. You have some tremendous people there and Pinocchio & Strombioli are holding the place back.
So, I'm now off to BKK next week for culture, Guinness and shopping and also to team up with some of Reagan's children (ISadRightTurd take note), xxxx

[Vercingetorix]

OneSadrightturds
Having actually noticed what you posted I reply for the record:
!. been married several times
2. qualified as an ESF ski instructor
3. qualified as a Guide du Montagne.

Basically lived life to the full, and you?

Now, va te fait enculer:ok:

[The Jolly Roger]

ATCOs being superior personages (!), you don't give a fcuk:

Vercing....Now that WAS below the belt...... get a frickin life dude....

As you said yourself...too much of a good thing the ole theakstones!!:yuk:

[TheFalcon]

VERCI - YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNN!!!

You made your point a million times and try to keep nailing the same people. You are BORING and noone cares about what you say. Go get a life man or get laid or something!

[BlueSkye]

2. qualified as an ESF ski instructor
3. qualified as a Guide du Montagne.

Holy fcuk!!!!! Are you $hittin' me! That's... that's... that's, no, words escape me.

!. been married several times

And who can blame the poor ladyboys for leaving you.

[ISaidRightTurns]

Me thinks I may have touched a nerve pointing out the similarities of the mudslinging 'ole Verci does to a unit that doesn't want, know or remember him to stalking.

Turds to me I guess.

Old man, I wasn't even BORN when the PATCO boys took their break. But I was sure there when they came rushing back!

[BlueSkye]

and also to team up with some of Reagan's children

The boys that got fired. Lots of common ground then, hey NotSo.

[Vercingetorix]

Stockholm syndrome

Psychological explanations

One theory to explain the Stockholm syndrome is cognitive dissonance. (n.b. already mentioned in a previous post with reference to the MATCO). Specifically, people don't like being unhappy for long periods of time, but when people are kidnapped for a long period of time, they will be unhappy for that time, unless they come to love their captors. Thus, to resolve the cognitive dissonance, the victim may begin to identify with the captors.

Psychoanalytic explanations

The Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological shift that occurs in captives when they are threatened gravely but are shown acts of kindness by their captors. i.e Stromboli & El Stupido. Captives who exhibit the syndrome tend to sympathize with and think highly of their captors, at times believing that the captors are showing them favor stemming from inherent kindness. Such captives fail to recognize that their captors' choices are essentially self-serving. When subjected to prolonged captivity, these captives can develop a strong bond with their captors, in some cases including a sexual interest!!!
According to the psychoanalytic view of the syndrome, this tendency might be the result of employing the strategy evolved by newborn babies to form an emotional attachment to the nearest powerful adult in order to maximize the probability that this adult will enable — at the very least — the survival of the child, if not also prove to be a good parental figure. This syndrome is considered a prime example for the defence mechanism of identification.

Re the unit, it is not run as per ICAO Standards and Practices but the above should highlight why this is so.

Re the personal plaudits.

Blueskye
yep, at the ESF in Chamonix, then in Meribel, Courchevel and Val d'isère. You should try the Haute Route sometime, if you're up to it.:\

1sadrightturd.
Not too many PATCO got rehired. I like your euphemism "took their break". Neat, when the old cowboy fired over 11000 of them and turned american aviation overnight to the status of the 3rd world. A status it hasn't really recovered from. I'll be dining with a few ex PATCO guys this week and will let them know that they needn't worry as the FAA is (was) full of hotshots like yourself?:eek:

Falcon.
Refer you to Jors Trullie's earlier post re button pushing.:confused:

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for a pint of Theakstones Old Peculiar.:ok:

ROFL:)

[BlueSkye]

Superiority Complex

The term "superiority complex", in everyday usage, refers to an overly high opinion of oneself; in psychology, it refers to the unrealistic and exaggerated belief that one is better than others. In Verci, this develops as a way to compensate for unconscious feelings of low self-esteem or inadequacy.

The socially awkward children may convince themselves that the reason they cannot connect with more forward individuals is because they are more intelligent and sophisticated than them. In adults, even business executives may put on a tough facade and try to make others think well of them, but inside they feel inadequate and do not respect themselves. Therefore, those exhibiting the superiority complex may project their feelings of inferiority onto others whom they perceive as 'lessers', possibly for the same reasons for which they themselves may have been ostracized.

Behaviors related to this mechanism may include an exaggerated opinion of one’s worth and abilities, unrealistically high expectations in goals and achievements for oneself and others, persistent attempts to correct others (regardless of whether or not they are actually correct), vanity, extravagant dressing (intent on drawing attention), excessive need for competition, pride, over-sentimentality and affected exaltation, snobbishness, a tendency to discredit others' opinions and over-forcefulness aimed at dominating those considered as weaker or less important. The conscious awareness of one's delusion typically results in a temporal phenomenen called cognitive dissonance, which may or may not serve the purpose of bringing that person back "down to earth".

Which of these do you display Verci?

PS: I can also Wiki.

[Red Dragon]

Verci,

I'm sure this has already been suggested, but in a vain attempt to put a stop to this thread and prevent it descending further into more back-stabbing and intellectual one-upmanship...

You no longer have a genuine vested interest in what goes on in the UAE. Get off your soap box in the Philippines, grab yourself a cold one and forget all about it, once and for all. The people here are big enough and ugly enough to know what (and who) the problems are. You don't need to keep telling everyone what's going on here....they already know.

Your relentless rants and drivel do you no favours and it is not what these forums were designed for.

RD

[Grabbers]

Sorry everyone

I know this is likely to be seen as a bone question but I have searched through the thread to no avail. What are GAL like as a company? What sort of starting salary/package for ATCOs are they offering?

Rgds

Grabbers

[Scooby Don't]

Grabbers - I strongly suggest you start a new thread! GAL are a contractor, I think from the UK but I could be wrong, and they provide ATCOs and assistants to at least one UAE military airfield (TWR only). You'll probably find more on www.flightglobal.com and serious Google search.

To everyone else........Red Dragon is spot on. This thread started about Dubai with UAE ACC as an adjunct question. It's turned into a mixture of political intrigue and jockeying for position, ALL about UAE ACC. The mods should shut it down.

[Fox3snapshot]

Awesome! We are at page 17 and still nothing remotely constructive on the thread...gotta be a record unless you try and take on the Ozzy '89 ers' threads and then we still have a long way to go!! :E

I might ask at this point to refrain from using words that are longer than 5 letters, hyphenated or Latin.....none of which I can readily comprehend or more importantly, could be bothered to! (Please note I used spell checker for that hyphenated word!)

Now back to your corners and let's see a fair fight....Verci you sit this one out you must be exhausted having taken so many hits on these last few rounds...or are you going to do a Rocky on us and come out swing'n yer zimmer frame !! :p

[Guy D'ageradar]

RD - hear hear..... fed up of the same relentless drivel.:ok:

Verci - if you're going to insult people / tell them where to go, at least get it right. Va te faire....... :cool:

Guy

[10 DME ARC]

What about changing this thread's name to UAE ACC???

[Northern_Trouble]

Not really sure if I agree, in some strange way, I find this thread sort of amusing. Keep up the good work all of you... Sort of miss the desert country. A lot of good people working there... I almost miss the desdi madness, hehehhehe

[The Jolly Roger]

Scooby...didn't you lot start some boring thread called "Dubai without the baggage" some time back......?? Obviously wasn't half as interesting as his one......!!:uhoh:

Grabbers...GAL, as far as I know employ controllers for Al Dhafra. I wouldn't bother starting a new thread, Scooby would be boring if ya did that!! :ok:

Maybe if we all keep ur this malarky, we might just get to 20 pages!!:eek:

[Lock n' Load]

I suppose when Jolly Roger says "you lot" to Scooby, he means "those of you who aren't UAE ACC controllers with an axe to grind".

You don't get much more boring than a thread in which only 3 or 4 posters have a vague clue what those 3 or 4 are talking about, and then bore the hind legs of anyone who wants to know about Dubai (the original subject) rather than the UAE ACC. Then one of them get pi*sy when someone suggests that since the thread has suffered a 7500, a new thread for enquiries about GAL might be handy.

This thread brings to mind the experience of being in a crowd with a few Big Brother fans from a few years back. No matter what the rest of the crowd wanted, they felt the need to talk endlessly about nonentities the rest of us hadn't heard of, and cared less about. :rolleyes:

[Hootin an a roarin]

This thread brings to mind the experience of being in a crowd with a few Big Brother fans from a few years back. No matter what the rest of the crowd wanted, they felt the need to talk endlessly about nonentities the rest of us hadn't heard of, and cared less about.

A bit like Barbour jackets, fillies and shooting eh! Those were the days. Hope you are well Lock n' Load

[Lock n' Load]

Good God, Hootin', who doesn't enjoy chatting about fillies!!! Barbour jackets, not to so much admittedly, though shooting talk is always fun for squicking out them that don't realise how tasty Bambi's mum is. :ok:
Anyway, I'm very well thanks. How's the Auld country these days?

[bobesko]

Does anyone know some contact e mail of abu dhabi area control I wold like to send them a cv and my application.Thanks a lot:ok:

[Groogle]

Is it true that someone was fired for having an incident at the airport?

[Guy D'ageradar]

That's what we heard in Dubai.....unlucky guy concerned was at ACC.:(

[Groogle]

Must have been a close one to get fired. Is this a normal event in a contract environement that an incident can lead to dismissal? Cannot be a very stable working environment.

[RustyNail]

Groogle,

Welcome to the Middle East.

Always have a bag packed for a quick departure.

You can be fired for anything, anytime, by just about anyone :(

[Groogle]

Thanks Rustynail. What is it like working in those conditions? I mean, are you always looking over your shoulder, can't be a very nice working environment? I suppose it is not bad for the single guys, but what about guys with wife and kids, you can't exactly take your kids out of school at a moments notice and ship them somewhere else :confused:. Call me old fashioned, but they make my employer look like an angel!

Is that why this thread has died down, guys are too scared to say anything?

[Vercingetorix]

RustyNail
Quote "Always have a bag packed for a quick departure".
Never was a 'Trullier' word spoken.

The UAE ACC MATCO and the SATCO have just been fired. Apparently they had the effrontery to write to the Regulator stating that the stripless environment (remember that was the one that the MATCO had not been consulted about and, after implementation, only found out about when he turned up for work) was unsafe and that they should revert immediately.
Stromboli & his puppet Pinocchio didn't agree and fired their arses.

As mentioned before it negates the concept of safety management and blows it out of the water!!!!!

It should be mentioned that the MATCO was the one who was insistent on having reinvented the wheel and was blowing hot on non punitive reporting. As you sow so shall you reap. Arrivederci - bambino di arrivederci

Addendum:
It is rumoured (fact, actually) that the FAA are going to downgrade the GCAA.
Now the question, if that happens, is how long can those two incompetent unqualified tossers (Stromboli & Pinocchio) last?
Not too many left to blame for incompetence, perhaps time to look in the mirror?

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for a pint of Theakstones Old Peculiar.

P.S. Red Dragon, what say you now, apart from Ooops!!!

P.p.s. Guy, you don't speak French like a local. En cul

P.p.p.s. Bangkok was, as always, a hoot.

[Groogle]

I have gone through this thread again and again. Is it really true about all those people being fired and resigning? Sounds like that old series called Dallas, except we do not know who has been shot? I mean, is there anyone who can corroborate what Mr Verci is saying? Surely someone is making this all up?

Hey Verci, I hear that Bangkok is only a hoot if you got hoodwinked by a lady boy :hmm:, was she, I mean he any good?

[Vercingetorix]

Hi Groogle
I take the wife with me to BKK and we meet up with some american chums (ex Reagan's children, i.e PATCO), one of whom manages a few bars in the 'Naughty districts').
Americano does the night life, I drink Theakstones & the wifey does the shopping, i.e. BeBo, Platinum, Pratunam, Siam Paragon, Centre World, etc.
Believe me, you get so used to naked ladies that you don't even notice.

Katoeys, lady boys are only for the innocent. Look for their Adams Apples and you will be ok!

Cheers:ok:

[RustyNail]

Hi groogle,

Yes, you look over your shoulder alot :(

Most of the time you just attempt do your job, cover your a***, and walk away clean at the end of each shift.

With the right crew on duty it is still challenging but very rewarding, I just took it one day at a time.

There is not an obvious safety culture and SMS is non-existent, those who raise safety concerns which counter the opinion of the "managers" are quickly "corrected", or as you have seen here, terminated.

So if your ok with that then it will make working there alot easier. I was not ok with that, and so I left. :ok:

[thealps]

Hey there.

Maybe off the subject but could anyone please PM me contact e-mail to Abu Dhabi ACC?
Also, another question - does anyone live in Dubai while working in Abu Dhabi? Is it possible or is it too far (and too much traffic) to drive back and forth every day?

Thanks in advance.

[porra]

Check your pm's

[Azzy]

Hi
1. I was wondering if anyone can send me contact number for UAE ACC and Dubai ATC / Briefing office contact, with regards to VFR Flight plan phone number

2. I want to know what altitude & Range likely a transponder being picked up by Radar, I need information at what height the flying object with transponder can be detected

thanks

[Funk]

Contact Us (http://www.gcaa.ae/en/Pages/ContactUs.aspx)

Try these numbers during UAE business hours 8-2:30pm GMT+4 Sunday to Thurs,
between us and the military we see everything on Radar :E

[RDD_Wings]

Hi, I was wondering if anybody knows if someone with only an ATC student licence, has any possibilites in taking up training at a tower in the UAE? Or are they only interested in ATCOs with experience?

[Tower Ranger]

You`ll need to have experience as competition for jobs is fairy stiff at the moment.

[vodafone]

Any Jobs going in the ACC in UAE at the moment?
Any update on the GCAA package?

[vodafone]

Will there be any recruitment in the next 12 months?
Is there a certain time of the year that they run courses?
What amount of enroute experience do you need?

Thanks guys!!!

[TheFalcon]

Vodafone - if you are looking at Dubai your enroute experience will not count much. Here its tower and Approach. Recruiting now depends on people leaving as most of the places have been filled up. Courses are run according to needs not to a schedule. Your nationality matters when it comes to selection.See older posts for this. Cheers!

[vodafone]

Any Idea how many vacancies there are at the mo, with the advertised posts on 10th Dec?
When could you expect a course to be run???

Cheers guys.....

[divingduck]

I heard that they were fully staffed...they were just getting a bank of CVs so that they don't have to entertain the thought of a pay rise from the current guys.

[Tin-Bullet]

Simply - NO MONEY..........

2 years in a row..... it seems like 'Back to the Future'.........

People tend to forget what happened in the past, where RETAINING or even ATTRACTING ATCOs for Dubai was very difficult!

Always keeping in mind the YEARLY Increase in Passenger figures & Aircraft Movements...& not just last year, but it's YEAR AFTER YEAR, & BOTH Dubai Airports & Emirates Airlines BOASTING on the increase in figures & MOSTLY on their Profits!

Greed???

In the meantime, try to relax with your feet up & continue drinking your coffees!:*

[Tower Ranger]

Agreed! When you read every month how great things are and how movements, pax and cargo are growing at an unbelievable rate then all of a sudden "We`re not making any money so we can`t give you a fil but thanks for shifting all our new shiny jets" ain`t great for morale or retention.

[ferris]

Is that coming from GCA or Serco?

[Nimmer]

Guys and girls in Dubai. You are not going to get any pay rises until SERCO can't recruit staff. Whilst there is a pile of CV's on the managers desk, they have no reason to give pay rises.

This is what happened around 2005/6, 10 left one year 8 the next, short staffed, not able to recruit because the package was poor. SERCO go cap in hand to the DCA to re-negotiate their contract and then give the huge pay packet that your on now.

Its a fact and the way SERCO run things, just enjoy the cash, and when it becomes too hard to live leave!!! Its the old bucket of cash v the bucket of sh*t, when the sh*t bucket is over flowing time to leave!!!!

[Red Dragon]

The fickleness of people never ceases to amaze me. Everyone was more than happy when the big payrise came in but now that there's no money around for ANYONE the whinging starts. Who hasn't heard of friends or friends of friends losing their jobs and their livelyhood during the last 18 months.

Try getting out there and comparing what you're on and the benefits you get and see how much sympathy you get from others in this city...or don't you have any friends outside of work? Then remember what you'd be left with back home after the mortgage and everything else.

Time to be grateful for what you have rather than exercising the one human feature that brought the city to its knees....greed. Everyone deserves to be rewarded for what they do, but a bit more 'big picture' thinking would go a long way right now.

Oh, and I'll think you'll find that it's not the way Serco runs things....it's any business. Supply and demand. Sure things fell behind back then and it got to meltdown stage, but look at where we are now. Maybe I'm wrong, but compared to a lot of people around here I'm pretty happy that I haven't got an axe over my head, I can pay the bills and live a pretty good life. And that's in the bad times.

It's also not the case that Serco doesn't need to award a payrise. One was applied for that was reasonable given the circumstances, but if DA aren't getting one and all departments are required to cut costs - how's a payrise gonna look?

:ugh:

[Guy D'ageradar]

I refer the honourable (?!) gentleman to the answer someone else gave a moment ago......

namely Always keeping in mind the YEARLY Increase in Passenger figures & Aircraft Movements...& not just last year, but it's YEAR AFTER YEAR, & BOTH Dubai Airports & Emirates Airlines BOASTING on the increase in figures & MOSTLY on their Profits!


Not to mention the ever growing profits that Serco like to crow about!

Can't have it both ways.

p.s. How's that Sercocision scar coming along? :E

[Red Dragon]

So for the guys in UK and elsewhere post 9/11 when the traffic figures dropped off and the airlines were suffering the controllers should have had a pay cut then?

As you say, can't have it both ways....but then you know it doesn't work like that old boy.

[Guy D'ageradar]

but then you know it doesn't work like that old boy

Ouch! :} Not really that far behind me, are you? :E

[Tower Ranger]

Point missed by quite some distance I fear Guy.

Due to cost of living increases a zero percent pay rise is in real terms a pay cut.

[Guy D'ageradar]

Point missed by quite some distance I fear Guy.

Not at all buddy. I completely agree. Kind of like the blatant lies about never allowing the same conditions to recurr when the last payrise came around - and that's before we start talking about accomodation allowances and associated rumours!

So for the guys in UK and elsewhere post 9/11 when the traffic figures dropped off and the airlines were suffering the controllers should have had a pay cut then?

As I remember, I went without a payrise for something around 3 years at that point, with a minimal (and short-term) decrease in traffic levels (with continually increasing cost of living) - before a significant increase. Do you think they increased the salaries proportionately - not likely!

Regardless of the position you're looking from, I think that asking anyone to handle 30+ percent more traffic, (notwithstanding the greatly increased complexity re SJ and DWC) for the same salary as 2 years ago, while simultaneously crowing about best ever profits is, at best, shortsighted - we could all go a lot further. :ugh:

TTFN

Guy.

[Red Dragon]

The justification for a payrise is clear and I agree with you, but that's not the point. A nil payrise may be what we end up with but it wasn't what Serco has requested. If we end up with nothing it's because there's no money to give, irrespective of how many more movements or passengers are moving through the airport. Deserving it and the abililty to pay it are two completely unconnected issues. Emirates are clearly making huge profits if they are to be believed, but we don't share in any of that and why should we? Is the airport making similar profits?..don't know and I don't think it's operated in that way either. Much of their funding comes from the ministry of finance and if they are asking for cost reductions across the board due to the extremely poor financial state of affairs (well documented) then what to do?

As I said before....a little big picture thinking would go a long way and try to accept that much of this is outside the control of the company that you so easily criticise when things are less than perfect. Anyone who's been around here for a while will know that things come around eventually and as with any industry you just have to ride out the bad times.

[prowler]

1 = Gone
2 = Going/Resigned
3 = 4-5 Leaving by year end??

It seems, what we have discussed here, is really a sign of 'RETENTION' being tackled carefully! Besides what has been discussed, regarding no payrise for the last 2 years, now people are really fed up & LEAVING!

Hopefully, this does not fall on 'deaf ears'.... we are literally going back to square one, as has been posted some time ago.....!

D-DANS has Resigned & is leaving.....

1 - ATCO GONE
2 - ATCO Resigned & going back home
3 - ATCO 5years + probably is leaving as fed up, especially night fatigue
4 - 3+ leaving by year end........

It's a pity, that Dubai is again losing & about to lose some dedicated staff, at a time when things are 'in place', but no sort of 'Retention' scheme in place.....

Hopefully, 'history won't repeat itself' with another mass exodus!

Everyone knows by how much traffic & passenger numbers have increased..but WE ALL KNOW how much MORE EXPENSIVE it has become living here. If it is no longer an attractive package, then for sure HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF.......

Fingers X'd........ ENOUGH SAID!

[TheFalcon]

From my experience the morale has dropped to pre-2008 levels. The traffic levels are such that it is pushing the limits of the system and it can been seen by the number of occurrences we get.

The Dubai shine wears off pretty quickly and we are here for the money. If it does not flow pretty soon, me and so many others are off. Hands tied we go!!

[ThirstyCamel]

Patience, patience.........negotiations take time in this neck of the woods, especially when savings are being sought across all government departments.

It is tricky to ask for a pay rise when the whole of DA hasn't had one for the last couple of years and the entire airport is coping with the increased traffic levels.

Are terms and conditions that bad yet when compared to other busy ATS units? Who should we compare ourselves against? The big European airports are still shifting significantly higher volumes of traffic overall and our pay is comparable with many Europeans already. The allowances and tax free status also helps considerably.

There is a rumour that there may be some good news in the not too distant future.

[TheFalcon]

ThirstyCamel - u sound exactly like my manager which I bet you are ... which makes me hopeful! BTW you cant compare to any European ATS unit or any other for that matter. We compare our salaries to what we would get at home which is what we are actually paid for - meaning if what we get here is not really good - we go home!

God bless rumours may they come true - SOON ! :)

[Red Dragon]

Not to receive a payrise for two years in a row is disappointing of course and the rise in cost of living needs to be addressed, but I think that that in itself can generate a feeling of low morale. Making the decision as to whether it's worth staying here is an individual one and everyone has different circumstances. But I'm sure that for many, when it comes time to crunch the numbers it will nearly always make sense to stay on what we're on here. When you factor in the allowances that we're paid here, thereby affording us far greater disposable income, it usually makes the decision for you.
Getting pissed off with the place and leaving because we didn't get a payrise will only come back to bite you and once the harsh realities of living back in the home country start to kick in and the memories of what you used to be able to do here, it wouldn't be long before you reconsider and want to come back. I've seen it many times.

Aside from the Nationals of course, this isn't home for any of us and none of us have to work here. We're all mercinaries at heart and rightly or wrongly we're here for the money. Of course it's only part of the equation - there's family, kids and quality of life which may be better back home. The situation now is very different to the pre-2008 one. The cost of living has increased there's no doubt about that, but we're far better off now then we were then and for that reason I don't see a line of people queueing at the exit.

[diplomat-not]

It is tricky to ask for a pay rise when the whole of DA hasn't had one for the last couple of years and the entire airport is coping with the increased traffic levels.

It is also 'TRICKY' that DA Personnel have 16% disc, whilst SERCO Personnel have only 10% disc on EK Travel......

Apart from this 'discrimination', IF EK really appreciate our services, then for sure this discount of 10-16% is definitely an insult!

Surprisingly other Carriers offer us better rebated travel, & besides this, EK DO offer much better rebated travel to ATC from OTHER ATC Units!

There is a rumour that there may be some good news in the not too distant future.

Will keep our fingers x'd, as 'it seems', that NOW DA Personnel are on the receiving end.... so let's hope that there will be no other new excuse for SERCO Personnel!

Taking into account the yearly inflation of approximately 8%, no pay rise for 2 years, with the constant rise in bills, I really wonder & hope if we can eventually receive a significant payrise!

God bless rumours may they come true - SOON !

And I agree PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE..........Inchalla

The cost of living has increased there's no doubt about that, but we're far better off now then we were then and for that reason I don't see a line of people queueing at the exit.

Believe it or not, there are a few lined up for the 'EXIT'.....Rumors are rumors, but the reality is that people have left, resigned, and resigning slowly slowly.... Wouldn't it be ideal IF stability is retained, & move on towards all the long & short term projects, & actually recruiting staff to augment the present numbers, & not simply to replace those leaving???

[Red Dragon]

Believe it or not, there are a few lined up for the 'EXIT'.....Rumors are rumors, but the reality is that people have left, resigned, and resigning slowly slowly.... Wouldn't it be ideal IF stability is retained, & move on towards all the long & short term projects, & actually recruiting staff to augment the present numbers, & not simply to replace those leaving???

There will always be a natural turnover of staff, no matter what's going on. How many of those that have left or resigned have done so purely because of not getting a payrise? Those that are threatening to resign - how many of them will actually be better off financially back home?

Looks like the payrise situation is about to change based on the High Commander's letter the other day.

As for the numbers, it doesn't quite work like that. There's a lot of transparency to the customer nowadays and carrying extra staff above what we actually need is difficult. There is a defined headcount down to the last person. Replacing staff that have left is pretty standard, having more staff than you actually need is not good business practice.

[Tin-Bullet]

Holding my breath whilst emptying my wallet to make some much needed space for the 'Big-Day'...............:suspect:

[Guy D'ageradar]

C'mon - do you REALLY think you'll need any significant space in there? Dream on....

[CEP]

Agreed...I think that any money meant for an increase has been well spent already.....that's why we've heard no news except that there is no news.
Have to pay for those extra feet they want next year for the office jobs....must have more support staff than controllers!:ugh:

[Euroc5175]

An e-mail from the new boss indicates that a pay rise has now been approved by the airport (the customer) and individual letters should be circulated soon :ok:

[Guy D'ageradar]

An e-mail from the new boss indicates that a pay rise has now been approved by the airport (the customer) and individual letters should be circulated soon

Hmmm - I seem to remember an email from the OLD boss saying pretty much exactly that.........two months ago.:(

I would be VERY surprised if anything that has "been approved" turned out to be more than negligible and yes - I have heard the rumours. A few percent on "basic" is therefore only half of what it appears to be and a long way from what is needed if they wish to retain those that have an option of going elsewhere.

Plus ça change......

[TheFalcon]

Guy I cannot agree more - if the amounts I heard are true the only retention they are going to get are from my bowels. The pay increase however would keep an asian labourer in Dubai for the rest of his life - sweet.... I wonder what these guys are thinking!!:ugh:

[CEP]

Times must be very tough!
They gave us a 4% increase on basic. And we've been told that's it for the next two years. So effectively a 1% pa increase on basic from 2009-2013.
WAY below the inflation rate..

Spend wisely chaps.....and for those who are considering coming here-we don't have any grass

[Tower Ranger]

Well some got 7% and a chosen view have got 10%, it will be intersting to see the letters later this week.

[Tin-Bullet]

This farce is like a never ending story!

Not only we are discriminated on some 'Staff Travel' from our major carrier, but now same thing WITHIN the unit!

Some have got 5-7% & 'their' basic is much higher than ours, so definitely 'their' raise is much more than ours.........

Our salaries are split in 'basic' & "other allowances"...... then of course the 4% on our 'basic' does not result in any significant increase! How can we forget 2 years of no increase, when the inflation has shot up by a minimum of 8% yearly?

& IF the rumor of this 'Pay Rise' is for 2 years...then rest assured HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF!

The only question now, is not "if how many other units have better offers", it's certainly a matter of "WHEN there will be openings/vacancies", MANY will leave, & rest assured 7 of us will resign at one go!

Remember we are now being considered as 'Medium Controllers'...........:yuk:

[ThirstyCamel]

There isn't much grass in the desert, but where is the grass greener at the moment?

Pay awards of significance seem to be few and far between on a global basis.

The pay award at DXB may not be great, but there isn't that much money floating about for Dubai government organisations - there is still billions of dirhams in debt to pay off.

By the time you take into account basic pay & personal allowances, housing allowance, school allowance, family medical insurance, terminal gratuity & flights home is the average controller at DXB that badly paid? And of course it's all tax free.

Dubai is hardly a hardship posting, or perhaps to some it is?

If the grass is greener, people will undoubtedly move on. If sufficient numbers leave then the customer will react and there will be another large payrise (as per a few years ago). The customer takes a business view of life. Whilst the current package continues to attract sufficient numbers of suitably experienced controllers, the customer will struggle to understand why they should fork out for larger pay rises.

I don't think that this situation is typical of the DXB contract and applies across the board where you have an ANSP providing a service on a contract basis.

As the old story goes, there are 2 buckets.....

[Jors Troolie]

Egg Zackery!

What Thirsty Camel said!

Where I work there is a queue of people waiting for their call from the ME - Dubai in particular. I know that's not ideal for the guys there to hear, but that's the way the world is. At the same time the "company" is telling us that there is queue that is there in the ME that want to come home? I guess it benefits us both ways!

[Tower Ranger]

We`re a fairly realistic bunch in Dubai and the main concern has more to do with the fairly dubious way in which individual pay awards have been decided rather than the amount.
Instructing supervisors to rate everyone at average in their assessments as it was just a starting point for the next year and wouldn`t mean anything and then turn round and state that the only thing pay rises were based on was this assessment is a pretty poor show.

[10 DME ARC]

Never mind the two week 'basic' lump sum verses Emirates 12 weeks bonus! Or the fact most new staff members in last year get nothing!
I agree no problem 'ish' with amounts its the way its been done!

[Euroc5175]

Tower Ranger, you make a good point. My understanding is that it was Dubai Airports that introduced the performance scheme and stated that it would be rolled out this year and would not be tied into any payments. This is what was cascaded throughout DANS. DA then subsequently turned around and said it would be linked to the pay award. I think that the whole of DANS was stitched up, probably along with several DA departments too. In other words, it was circumstances outside the control of anyone on the contract.

[Fox3snapshot]

Quite entertaining watching these threads, just another turn in the Middle East circle of life.... i.e same cr*p another year!

Dig up threads from days of yonder and bring back The Rat!! That'll spice it up a bit!!

I guess some of the greener folk here are not accustomed to the world of Middle East contracts :rolleyes: If you want to hang out here for more than 18 moths...get used to it!

:cool:

[Rule3]

Foxy, Maaaaate was that a pun about "greener folk" and "The Rat." Was he Irish or did he have a "Green Passport." I think we should be told.:ok:

[Fox3snapshot]

A mystery that I don't think will ever be solved :E

[The Jolly Roger]

Must be awful earning an insane tax-free salary in the land of infinite sunshine (and for some, "golden showers")!!! :}

But maybe you guys would like to pay taxes again.....the EU and IMF will welcome you back with open arms. :ok:

Your still better off here (and yes, even with 4 school going kids) than most other places.....

Enjoy the sunshine while it last boys. :cool:

[prowler]

There isn't much grass in the desert, but where is the grass greener at the moment?

It's only a matter of WHEN there will be vacancies, & not a matter if & by how much the grass is greener, people WILL leave.

The pay award at DXB may not be great, but there isn't that much money floating about for Dubai government organisations - there is still billions of dirhams in debt to pay off.

Considering no increase for approx.2 years & now with this negligible increase, & if this will be for 2 years.... then a merely 1% is what we are ending up with!

The customer takes a business view of life. Whilst the current package continues to attract sufficient numbers of suitably experienced controllers, the customer will struggle to understand why they should fork out for larger pay rises.

Yes it is a business for the Customer, but after all the emails of the annual increase in movements, passenger figures & cargo, then we would have expected something better!

Is it worth all the hassle of recruiting more & more ATCOs replacing those who have resigned & are resigning, instead of merely keeping the present ATCOs happy & retaining stability at the same time?

We`re a fairly realistic bunch in Dubai and the main concern has more to do with the fairly dubious way in which individual pay awards have been decided rather than the amount.
Instructing supervisors to rate everyone at average in their assessments as it was just a starting point for the next year and wouldn`t mean anything and then turn round and state that the only thing pay rises were based on was this assessment is a pretty poor show.

It would be interesting if this same H.R. 'stunt' repeats itself next year - it's gonna be another joke!


Thank you for appreciating our hard work!

[Out The Gap]

Hey you guys..

I was thinking of applying for any upcoming vacancies in the UAE but this thread is starting to put me off... :confused: Are most of you based in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or elsewhere in the Gulf region? Or in other words, what ATC units should I avoid applying for?

[throw a dyce]

I see an ad in Flight for what looks like a cadetship in Dubai.Serco are the employer and training to be done in Al Ain.That's a first for Serco as they usually poach.''No qualifications'' are required.:D
Sounds like FUN :cool:

[FoxtrotUniform]

Does anyone know any contact details for questions concerning the ATCO course? Couldn't find any on flighglobal or Serco website

[diplomat-not]

MANY unhappy faces & it has now become a ONE BIG MESSY SANDPIT!

Motivation -/- Incentive is simply @Rock Bottom level!

Keep up the good work DA!:D:mad::D

[ThirstyCamel]

There is no denying that the roll-out of the performance appraisal system and the subsequent pay award was a mess. Unfortunately due to the mix of staff (DA/Serco) on the contract, DANS as a whole had to follow the DA process this year.

However, when the dust eventually settles and you compare to elsewhere in the world, is the total tax-free package (salary, personal allowances, housing, schooling, flights, medical) on offer that poor?

Dubai is on the pricey side, but there are worse places to be living, raising a family, etc.

[prowler]

Whilst understanding from WHERE the go-ahead for the pay award came from, it is useless comparing what other units may offer. Please keep in mind that most of us are AWAY FROM our FAMILIES, FRIENDS. so unless the contract is no longer that attractive, then most of us will be annoyed.....

&..........

Whatever the excuses may be, there is still NO JUSTIFICATION of the DIFFERENCE in pay award amongst ALL ATCOs! It is easy to say "if you don't like it, then pack & leave"...but what is the scope?

From my understanding of the latest memo, there does not seem to be any adjustment of all ATCOs' salaries to be on the SAME numbers in the near future!!!

OK.....if that's what you want........:=

[Tower Ranger]

Prowler do you really think that all Atco`s were on the same pay before this? From reading the original raison dètre i would guess there were already a few different deals that nobody really wants to talk about.

[prowler]

Prowler do you really think that all Atco`s were on the same pay before this? From reading the original raison dètre i would guess there were already a few different deals that nobody really wants to talk about.

In a 'way' I agree with you that it is a known secret on the dodgy different deals that some of us are on........but still this latest joke is a BIG SLAP IN THE FACE!!!

We are now basically refering to the 'BASIC' which one can also say is on a 'divide & rule' basis! The way this has been done & how this won't be adjusted is simply disgusting to say the least!

Productivity / Motivation / Morale = :mad:

[vodafone]

Does anyone know if there are any courses(vacancies) coming up for Abu Dhabi enroute ACC???? in 2011/12

What is the pass rate for courses??
How long is the course???
Can you have a medical before you sign up?

Cheers Guys.........

[ATCO1969]

18 slots to be filled this year, but I hear they are all allotted.

Pass rate? Judging by recent standards you should make it if you have a pulse.

Length? 3 - 4 months to check out.

Medical? You can have a medical everyday of your life if you wish mate!

'69

[Over and over]

If you have a pulse?

I assume the American and 2 Australians that failed in the last 6 months were dead already then?

[Guy D'ageradar]

I'd also love to know who's going to train them as all the "operational" instructors just chucked it in as a result of recent events......

[ATCO1969]

O & o, you answered your own question mate..

'69

[Guy D'ageradar]

oops :}

I must pay more attention in class ;)

[vodafone]

Cheers '69

Any idea when 2012 slots will be advertised????

[Short Approach?]

Apply now! as the CV drawer is nigh on empty.

:} spell check

[ATCO1962]

What, you want horses, SA? :ok:

[diplomat-not]

@Short Approach?

Apply now! as the CV drawer is nigh on empty.

For DWC-AMI??????:hmm:

[Kiwikid]

How is the transition for APP to DWC going? When will it be completed, and for anyone who seen the facility/gear, how does it compare to the old ACC at DXB?

Move is currently scheduled for early next year (Jan/Feb?) Initially it will be on the current gear with a move to the new gear when it is up and running and training can be completed. Sometime 2012, maybe...

While the new APP facility itself is better than the current DXB one, it is not brilliant (definitely done on a budget) but the main problem is the lack of other facilities such as access to food outlets, car parking and the like. This will presumably improve eventually when passenger services start at DWC but that could be a couple of years at least. Suffice to say, not many of us are keen to move at the moment.


Apply now! as the CV drawer is nigh on empty.

For DWC-AMI??????

My understanding is that while there are quite a few CV's for DXB APP, there are very few "qualified" (ie meet the experience requirements and below the age cut-off) who actually say yes when offered a job.

[throw a dyce]

At what age are you cut off?

[Short Approach?]

The big five O

[throw a dyce]

Any other types of discrimination we should know about before the CV is dispatched into the bin.There are lots to chose from religion,gender,colour etc etc.:suspect:
Perhaps Serco should read their own Anti discrimination policies.:=
Where's my zimmer.Aged 50 and a half.

[Red Dragon]

"You're not in Kansas any more Dorothy...."

:rolleyes:

[TheFalcon]

(definitely done on a budget)Don't quite agree kido, I think it was over budgeted and nothing to criticize really except what you said - it's in the middle of nowhere and no facilities - btw passengers are actually planned closer to 2020!

Any other types of discrimination we should know about before the CV is dispatched into the binAs things stand here it helps if you are a Kiwi! :ugh:

[Fox3snapshot]

Red Dragon

Sorry mate, went to click 'Like' on your comment but got all my forums and buttons mixed up!!!

But if there was such a button here for your comment...I would have pushed it!

:ok:

[mushroom1]

Don't quite agree kido, I think it was over budgeted

Sorry Birdy but I strongly disagree with your statement! The list of problems are endless and they all emanate from some penny counters cutting as many corners as possible to save money.
Just to name a few:
The fact that the two "Approach rooms" were supposed to be boxed in for fire protection purposes.....never happened
No emergency fire exits in either of the "Approach rooms"
Lack of decent lighting in the "Approach rooms"
The useless acoustics in the Approach rooms.....might have well just used normal office partitions rather than building any walls
The flooring throughout the building looks cheap and nasty
The aircons are temperamental and have a habit of turning off when it gets too warm
There are only 4 urinals in the entire building. Should be fun when the building is full of controllers, support staff and other management types at the same time............

And the list could go on and on and on!

[Red Dragon]

There are only 4 urinals in the entire building. Should be fun when the building is full of controllers, support staff and other management types at the same time............


Not to worry, there'll be plenty of people taking the piss out of you, so that shouldn't be a problem.

:}

P.S.....pax supposed to start from next year, albeit slowly and on a voluntary basis. "Suggested" moves from DXB t DWC to be around 2014 onwards.

[Vercingetorix]

Not to worry, there'll be plenty of people taking the piss out of you, so that shouldn't be a problem.


Made me laugh, good one.:)

[prowler]

Not to worry, there'll be plenty of people taking the piss out of you, so that shouldn't be a problem.

LMFAO...Bingo!:D

[Tower Ranger]

Just saved yourself some CV pollishing T A D!

[VoxPopuli]

You APP guys can always up ship and move to the Sheikh Zayed Center in AD. There is a lot of spare radars, parking and food outlets. The lighting is good, there is emergency exits and a functioning A/C.

We'll even throw in NINE, yes NINE urinals.:E:E:E

[throw a dyce]

Tower Ranger,
''Pollishing'' my CV,I'll have to try that out sometime,somehow,with some polllllish I guess.:bored:

[ASD]

You APP guys can always up ship and move to the Sheikh Zayed Center in AD. There is a lot of spare radars, parking and food outlets. The lighting is good, there is emergency exits and a functioning A/C.

We'll even through in NINE, yes NINE urinals.

Can anyone shed more light on this? Strong rumours that us OMAA APP controllers will be moving across to the SZC. Apparently once we up and running there, next step will be Dubai APP to move too.

Are these just rumours or is it a case of where there is smoke there is fire?

[Guy D'ageradar]

''Pollishing'' my CV,I'll have to try that out sometime,somehow,with some polllllish I guess.


Maybe you could "through" in a few urinals (and count the emergency exit(s)) in AD at the same time!

RD :ok: back at last?

[Red Dragon]

Guy,

Yup, back to the day job.

:uhoh:

[Vercingetorix]

Strong rumours that us OMAA APP controllers will be moving across to the SZC.'twas once a plan of the 'Notso Great Dane'.:rolleyes:

Since his departure not sure how the time scale has slipped but would expect it to happen eventually, but not in the immediate future.

Centralised APP/ACC has been the way for the last 20+ yrs but the move back to decentralised APP is starting to gather a small momentum.

Can't really see Dubai giving up any of its' autonomy unless it has more say in procedures, airspace planning, etc. Abu Dhabs perhaps but a big perhaps for the same reasons.

:ok:

[ATCO1969]

Verci -- Your sources must be drying up mate..:confused:

'69

[atcsol]

Hi, Everybody.

Could anybody working in Abu Dabhi ACC pass me the info about shift patterns, monthly working hours, actual working conditions an so on?

Thinking about going over there... Good or bad moment?

Thanks for your help

[Mr. Ron]

I can confirm that the original design philosophy for the SZC was to accommodate all approaches in UAE as well as the ACC function. How this was to be implemented was never planned, however it was always envisaged to start with the 'lesser' approaches first and build on a 'might is right' principle over time.

[Vercingetorix]

ATCO1969
Afraid not, but they are all a happy bunch of bunnies since the revolution. :ok:

[Fox3snapshot]

Mr. Ron

They best get a plan....they have one approach unit in there now and only matter of time before the others will follow. Just a hunch....

Build it and they will come :p

:cool:

[miragedeepblue]

Hello

Can anyone give me info on Abu Dabhi ACC, being shift patterns, monthly working hours,and a possible e mail contact ?

Considering a change for a even more sunny place ;)

PS- here or pm

Many thanks in advance

[vodafone]

Hi Guys,

Any differences in the Serco versus GCAA contracts?

1. Pay
2. Job Security
3. Medical cover
4. Allowances (Housing, Education, Travel, etc.)
5. Bonus

Any Contracts on the horizon for the ACC?

Cheers.....

[DVC-ATC]

I'm guessing by the lack of response that there aren't many ACC guys on the forum? Like others, I would be interested in more info about the working conditions at the ACC and if they are hiring in the near future?

Anybody?

[Over and over]

On the contrary, I'm sure there are plenty of ACC people watching this forum!

[UpperATC]

Hello colleagues,

Firstly, thanks to everybody contributing to this debate, and especially the ME guys for some "inside" info from the work in dunes.

I would like to ask if there is anyone here from other parts of ME, not Dubai or Abu Dhabi. For example Oman or Bahrain.

Some up-to-date info about their (your) ACC units (not just APP and TWR) would be great. What are the working conditions, technology used (paper strips, e-strips, strip-less), traffic volume, etc...

Anything first-hand from you guys would be great.

Thanks in advance,

Be good! :ok:

[sawhn172]

Hi guys, first, thanks for all the posts, I learned a bunch reading your posts over the years. I'm an ATCS at LaGuardia Airport in New York, have been one for about 4 years and am seriously considering a career in Dubai. I did as much research as I could and came up with very little... I tried emailing quite a few places and most of the time get a generic "mail not delivered" message.

Can anyone please guide me as to where I could get some legit information, or where to send my CV, I would really appreciate it, and if any of you ever visit the NYC area, definitely drop me a line and I can set something up if you want to visit the tower or anything. : )

Thanks again!

[northeast]

I have sent you a PM with a contact who should be able to help.

[SlevinKelevra]

Northeast, I have the same dream. May i have that contact too?
Tx in advance.
Slevin

[northeast]

OK I have sent you a PM :ok:

[ddtonti]

Happy New year to you all!! Was wondering if anyone can help me? Recently applied to GAL for a couple of vacancies advertised on their website (I say recently was nearly 2 months ago!!) Anyhow, had no response to applications or to any follow ups I have sent to them. Does anyone out there have a contact??? I am constantly hearing of ex RAF assistants leaving to work with them but cant seem to track down a contact!! Please help!!

[BDiONU]

I am constantly hearing of ex RAF assistants leaving to work with them
I know 3 ex-RAF controllers working for them and there is a fistful of ex-Navy but I don't know any ex-AATC or Flight Ops Assts.

[ddtonti]

There definitely is assistants out there, friends of a few mil people I work with just now, but struggling to get any sort of named contact. They even advertised on their website which I applied for but with no response!! Very frustrating! :ugh:

[Frostie]

ddtonti,
I applied to 5 vacancies on the GAL website back in July 2011. I received a email response in September 2011 for one vacancy that led to a phone interview, etc.. I finally received a "rejection" email on one other last week, almost 4 months after applying! They seem to work slow.

What is frustrating with the GAL application process is that they only allow you to apply for 5 jobs at a time. And it is difficult figuring which job is which when you get a rejection.

As of late there wasn't any ATCO jobs posted.

[Frostie]

Sawhn172,

You're already so disillusioned with the glorious FAA after 4 years that you want to pack it in & move to Dubai?

It usually takes a few more years than that. We must be doing something wrong!

[bangui]

If somebody working in Dubaï or Abu Dhabi (APP or ACC) can contact me on my private box.... I know Abu Dhabi is looking for ACC ATCO and would like to have some more info on salary, house allowance etc....
I'll be in DXB in a few days on holydays and would like to visit Dubaï ATC (App, TWR) and Abu Dhabi to see if I can fit in.
Thanks