EasyJet Announces Gatwick Expansion

[dwlpl]

Today easyJet have announced its much rumoured expansion plans through Gatwick starting in mid February.

Its currently flies to AMS, BCN, GVA and NCE and is planning to add EDI (up to 5 per day), ZRH (2 per day), AGP (2 per day) and PMI (1 per day).

This, they say, will make it the airports second largest scheduled carrier.

[TripleIRS]

Surprisingly, they didn't bother announcing that their plans for opening a Flight Deck Crew Base at Belfast International had been cancelled!! They cite, as one of the reasons for this, that they ".... will use LGW based Flight Deck Crews to crew some aircraft operating ex-Belfst". I'm sure that gives us all a clue of another route they'll be launching ex-LGW.

Truth of the matter is, easyJet don't meet the minimum standards requirement as an employer for Belfast based crew, the BFS & BHD boys and girls are much too canny a bunch! And "Wodger" at CTC obviously doesn't like people from N.I., either!!!

:) <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> :) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[bush]

Are you saying that easyJet is a low standards employer? I should think easy is a pretty sought after and secure employer judging by the amount of applications recieved recently.

[tailscrape]

Well, I didn't think they were all that recently.

Wouldn't go there if I was forced in the door. A nice enough bunch, but for god's sake.....stop the orange nonsense........you are even being bombarded with it in interview!!

I guess they are good for some, but I didn't like the feel of it.

[Gypsy]

Tailscrape - well don't join then because me thinks we probably don't want you either. Saw your post elsewhere about NCL in which you express concern over losing your current job. Have you been for the interview with eJ and been turned down?

Triple IRS - what a load of twoddle. 'the truth of the matter is' that you don't have the first clue. My understanding from reliable internal sources is that we looked at the huge expansion in LGW and saw that as a higher priority than BFS. What are these high standards required in BFS that we don't need in the rest of the UK. Ah -wait a minute have you also been for a Sim check and got rejected. Hard to take was it?

[euroboy]

Nothing on EJ website as of yet regarding LGW routes.

And why is that certain members of the EJ "team" think that if anyone just dares` says something against the Orange band we are rejects?
Funny as it may seem, we may not want to be Tangoed!

[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: euroboy ]</p>

[dwlpl]

Try this address:
<a href="http://www.easyjet.com/en/about/infopack_routeinfo.html" target="_blank">www.easyjet.com/en/about/infopack_routeinfo.html</a>

[TripleIRS]

Gypsy:

In answer to your last two sentences - Wrong, and Wrong!!!

I have friends who have been promised the earth by easyJet in BFS, only to have "The Gospel According to St. Stelios" revised frequently. (I.E. Lied to)

And from what I've heard about their Sim. Assessments from people who have been both successful and unsuccessful, it's a shambles.

Both of the above paragraphs fail to do anything to enthuse both those who have been through the "Orangeland" experience, and those who are considering applying. I fall into the latter category.....or did!

It's not to everyone's liking, especially when people try to ram it down others throats, but you'd know all about that!!

Toodle-Pip!!

<img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: TripleIRS ]</p>

[J-Class]

I'd like to wish EZ every success at Gatwick. It is completely beyond me to understand how BA can fail to make profits at an airport where they hold the majority of the slots.

Somehow I rather expect BA's current strategy - which seems to involve very much downsizing Gatwick if not eliminating it completely - will work against them eventually.

One scenario I can envisage is BA giving up on Gatwick to concentrate on Heathrow, but thereafter losing slots at Heathrow to accommodate new entrants in the name of competition (certainly if the AA deal goes through, possibly even if it doesn't). Either way BA will be a much reduced beast unless it can successfully pull off one merger or another - AA, KLM, whatever. Given that even Sept. 11th and the demise of Swissair and Sabena seem to not to have altered the aeropolitical picture much, banking on a merger to help BA looks far fetched.

So I'm not quite sure what future BA will look like:

- a businessman's airline, but, um, one which may give up all it's European operations? Which makes it...
- a long haul businessman's airline (it doesn't want to fly megajumbos like VS and compete in the mass market). Which suggests...
- it should dissolve itself and buy Blue Fox. That's it! Problem solved. (just kidding)

By the way, I'm not anti BA, they remain my favourite airline to travel with, I just don't feel like paying £500 to go to Zurich for the day...

[Only A Few More Seasons]

I agree good luck to E O G (Easy of Gatwick)at least it will mean Jobs for some of the poor sods that have lost theirs recently, it will also help revive LGW which is like a ghost town even now approaching Christmas.

[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: Only A Few More Seasons ]

[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: Only A Few More Seasons ]</p>

[Gypsy]

Triple IRS - the people you know that think the recruitment sim a shambles etc - can I presume they failed.

I doubt easy 'promised the earth' in BFS but we interviewed people for that base. If successful I would expect those people would be offered jobs elsewhere within the network then when BFS opens they can move there. All depends if you want the job. For the record even before the dreadful events of 911, retention in easy was very high so therefore something must be right. Good retention starts with good recruitment.

Its not a case of jumping to defend easy everytime someone is negative. What gets my goat is schoolyard comments preceded by something like 'the truth is' when the originator clearly doesn't have a clue what the real facts are. These remarks are usually followed by some jibe at the recruitment process which despite the denials tells us lots about the author!

For the people who are interested in BFS I'd be very surprised if it doesn't happen one day

[Katy]

I agree with Gypsy.

The simple 'truth' is that easyJet aircraft are a limited resource. The events and fallout from September 11 could not have been foreseen.

Naturally if an unexpected opportunity for expansion presents itself, then Stelios is obviously going to concentrate on the more profitable option until such time as other plans (BFS) can be accommodated.

I understand the comments made by other contributors regarding the situation in NI. Minimum requirements, I believe, relate more to the mix of employees (vis-a-vis the problems in the Province) than the long-term prospects or standards of the airline (correct me if I am wrong!).

Best wishes for the Season.

[dwlpl]

FT states that Gatwick will become easyJets main base in Europe operating up to 30 737's by 2006!

[dik dastardly]

well , 'the truth is': EZY, they came, they talked, they wined, they dined, they went back to LUT with 1 F/O. Fair enough. They may find however that the enthusiasm displayed next time they come to town is somewhat tepid. No big deal but just as LGW is of more commercial importance to EZY, NI is more important to its local crew.
You'll always get plenty of takers for a free meal at the Hilton. Won't be quite so easy to get them down to LUT though. Now I'm off to my local pub.

[Rinky]

Can any Easy insiders tell me how the LGW expansion will affect GLA or EDI expansions which were rumoured for the new year?

[Stelios]

Gypsy - do wind your neck in boy, you're much too complacent and your attitude stinks.
I'm sure you'll have your 'come uppance' one day.

[In trim]

LGW expansion, as indicated above, has meant a couple of other areas (primarily BFS) having to be postponed pending new deliveries as the next few aircraft, rather than being allocated to the regions, will head for LGW. Do not, however, assume that growth will not go ahead in the regions as planned!

[yaffel1]

This news was hardly unexpected. As soon as BA decided to vacate slots Easyjet were always going to move in, which is why it was an example of idiotic short-termism in the first place.

I'm afraid that this is the start of the end for BA at LGW. As Easyjet build up their presence further BA will retrench further, particularly since BA's policy is invariably to reduce frequency when faced with headon low cost competition,rather than ramping up the frequency and fighting back.

It is interesting to note that they have concentrated thus far at LGW on the franchised or former franchised routes of GB and CityFlyer, presumably because they know that these routes were likely to have been successful ones, otherwise GB and CityFlyer wouldn't fly them.

It does mean one thing. BA will now have to really think through what their response is going to be in the long term, you cannot just continue to back away indefinitely.

[mudcity]

this is good news for all in the industry as it will mean jobs for lots of people at a time when we need any good news we can get.The most interesting thing is does this mean that ezy are changing their philosophy of being a high utilisation/low cost carrier...LGW is not a place you can do 30 mins turnarounds,I often spend 20 mins taxiing/holding prior dep and a good 10 mins inbound....so how do you keep low cost if you can't get that extra rotation in???? and presumably the baa are'nt giving them a huge discount ????

[dwlpl]

Events recently I think have changed easyJets focus from the plans prior to September.

The opportunities to create major new bases at Paris and Gatwick have put the plans for Liverpool, Belfast, Edinburgh and Glasgow on the back burner slightly for the time being.

Maybe if they can acquire new/nearly new aircraft in addition to the ten(?) they have coming on stream in 2002 will enable them to bring those plans back to the forefront.

[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: dwlpl ]</p>

[Zeroflap]

Sounds to me like a lot of very frustrated people out there, most of whom appear to be blethering without any close knowledge of the real situation.

True that the plans for BFS have been delayed, as pointed out elsewhere this is, to accomodate LGW. Would any other Airline have reacted differently to an opportunity like this??

BFS, I am confident, will go ahead, hopefully sooner than many of the above contributors think.

As far as the situation regarding the "NI Boys" I can categorically assure you that many BFS and BHD Pilots are watching with great interest and at the same time trying very hard to secure Employment with EZY.

Ironically, the events of 9/11 have released many suitably rated people onto the jobmarket and so this has had the effect of making it more difficult to change employers. Couple this with the fact that most of those working in NI choose to accept less shiny equipment at lower salaries, than many of their mainland colleagues, precisely because they wish to remain in the Province, where, until now, choice has been extremely restricted. There is therefore, understandably, reluctance and apprehension about giving up these positions.

However, easyJet are already an established force in Northern Ireland and the future for them is most definitely bright. There will be no problem obtaining Crew, if the vibes that I'm getting are correct.

Since securing employment with the "Orange Order" I have been inundated with requests for information from Pilots here in Belfast. For what it's worth I have found EZY extremely good communicators, providing me with info before it was generally available and having already offered to accomodate me fully during the period of consolidation at LGW and until BFS gets sorted.

My experience of both the selection day at LTN and indeed the Sim check at CTC was that they were both comprehensive and enjoyable.

The people propogating this vitriolic garbage either don't know what they are talking about or they are carrying around the chip of rejection. In either case they will never work for EZY by virtue of their attitude nor will they ever be satisfied with their present positions, again by virtue of their attitude. Sad BA$T@RD$!!

[In trim]

Papillon / Mudcity

Re the comments that EZY have chosen GB/CityFlyer routes.....true, but they are also existing EZY destinations, where EZY already have a management infrastructure, handling agreement, etc. The costs of operating into these airports are therefore quite minimal, as adding extra frequency will be beneficial to the overall cost......probably reduced handling rates for higher frequencies, plus better utilisation out of existing airport management / sales / ticket desk staff. A handful of extra flights can easily be slotted into AGP, ZRH, etc. with no effort / set-up cost whatsoever. The cost of starting new destinations would obviously outweigh some of the above benefits.

Mudcity raises the issue of utilisation / operating cost. No doubt yields will be better from LGW than LTN, which will make up for a reduction in utilisation. Also, much of EZY's growth at LGW is likely to be southern routes (PMI, AGP already announced, plus others possibly to come), where airborne time per sector is likely to be less than having to route round London to get to LTN. This equates to 15-20 mins less airborne time per rotation which could be built into additional ground time at LGW. This may not offset things entirely, but would certainly be a consideration in terms of the overall cost / yield per sector.


(Edited twice by the spelung police)
[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: In trim ]

[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: In trim ]</p>

[Gypsy]

Stelios - my neck isn't out - just putting some truth to the rumours but for some the truth hurts. As far as getting ones just desserts, I think you'll find that is what is happening to Big Airways now. Laker, Air Europe, Dan Air, Virgin, then the sneering at the likes of ezy.......!

Dik.D - okay, so you think that when ezy eventually want to open a base in BFS the pilot community there is somehow going to be not interested. Dream on.

Zeroflap - well said.

[Flightrider]

On the subject of slots, I heard from a very reliable source that many of the new slots required by easyJet for its expansion at Gatwick have been "borrowed" from Virgin Atlantic. Virgin has spare slots at Gatwick after dumping Toronto, Boston, Newark etc post 11 September and easyJet is going to be using them. Should make life interesting when Virgin wants them back - or are easyJet assuming that they will have finished off BA at Gatwick by then?

If I was being really cynical, is this another Virgin attempt to have a go at BA?

[caulfield]

I find this a worrying trend..while,I congratulate easyjet on its continued good fortunes,its current level of service(ie.none) to its passengers is simply not suitable for a major international hub.Gatwick is not Luton and god forbid that it should become so..that will only leave Heathrow free from this awful tarnish of mediocrity.There is nothing worse in life,in my view,than mediocrity.Its fine from Luton,Birmingham,Bristol where the majority of people are Brits wanting a cheap fare to the sun.But Gatwick is(or certainly was) a major international hub with foreign transit passengers who would be left with increasingly few options(if BA and real carriers continue to suffer).
I think their presence and growth at LGW is good news in the short-term but what effect will it have long-term?Will they force BA to diminish its service even more or induce BA and others to follow its example of mediocrity?What a shame that would be...all of us,Brits and unsuspecting transit passengers who might be visiting Britain for the first time,being herded onto these orange fat alberts by people with little or no grace and manners..being snapped at by teenage cabin crew and thrown a cheese and ham sandwich..all of us being thrown into this orange melting pot of proletarian mediocrity.
Is this what people want?Safe,cheap and on-time and thats it?And is easyjet those things in any case?If all airlines are forced by economic necessity to copycat the lowest common denominator,then I see a very sad future for aviation,certainly from the passengers POV.
Imagine a business-man at the transit info desk at LGW in 2006..
"When's the next BA flight to Frankfurt?"
"Not for 4 hours"
"Thought they had five flights a day"
"No,sir.Cutbacks you know"
"Well,what about Lufthansa?"
"Not for another 5 hours..same thing I"m afraid"
"Well,is there anybody else?"
"Well,you might try Easyjet."
"Whats that?"
"Its a low-cost carrier"
"No god-dammit..I've just had a helluva day.I want to unwind..have a drink and just relax"
"Well,there's a Ryanair leaving in 1 hour..but there's just one problem..."
"Whats that?"
"Well,they dont actually fly to Frankfurt."
"Well,where do they fly to"
"A place called Hahn..its quite near,sir."

RESULT:Next time,the businessman re-routes via Schipol or uses video-conferencing.

[angrycat]

Caulfield

So in 2006 Easyjet and Ryanair can provide flights out of LGW , BA not? Probably True.

EJ and Ryanair OK for meer Brits who are so stupid as too waste their cash on a inferior product. I think not.

So foreign transit pax are more worthy than "local Pax"

You are "Victorian Pilot" Should not be seen or heard.

[topman]

Caulfield.

Some of your comments are probably reasonably accurate. For example there will always be the business people who want to feel like they have had a "free" drink". However in this day and age more and more people are waking up to the fact that they don't have to pay BA three times the cost of an easyjet flight to get from A to B.

They can pay the lower price, fly on a brand new 737-700 and pay for what they want to eat and drink on the flight. The seat pitch is reasonable and after all it is only a short flight isn't it.

Don't you find it remarkable that Southwest Airlines in the US is such a success? Low cost was born in the US not the UK.

Your comments most probably are similar to those BA senior management who expect the paying public to willingly throw their money to BA because of the brand. Not surprisingly, those days are numbered.

[jumpseater]

Caulfield, from November 2000 to November 2001 around 7,485,000 people considered themselves mediocre. :)

The city business types who frequently have a hard day at the office <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> , consider it a bland enough company to invest money in even after September the 11th, check the share price trend to see how spectacularly dull and turgid their share price has been since 911!. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Do the public want safe, lo-cost, and punctual travel?, it appears they do, is easyJet all of these? any firm evidence that it isn't? <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[lgtjanssen]

"I find this a worrying trend..while,I congratulate easyjet on its continued good fortunes,its current level of service(ie.none) to its passengers is simply not suitable for a major international hub."

Thus EZY should also leave AMS, ZRH and MAD? Or is LGW better than these airports?

At AMS EZY is now the second largest airline (after KLM and friends) and I haven't heared AMS management complaining about the negative effects it has on AMS image.

[Macman]

Caulfield,

Do you work in a large office in Waterside? You seem to think that being ripped off my major airlines is OK. The travelling public, particularly the business travellers who do day return trips to Europe are tired of being penalised for mid week travel. As you can see from the available passenger figures they are voting with their feet. However, if you have the money and want to pay 500 quid to travel in Club on a major carrier good luck to you. As you can see there is a growing majority that don't think it's worth it anymore.......

[C-dog]

Horses for courses folks.

I used to fly SWA (still on their mailing list) a lot MSY - Houston Hobby. Really good service even with cabin staff in shorts and no catering. Some of the cabin announcements were good crack and took the sting out of the the few flight delays encountered.

However as soon as you want to go international one has to go to IAH and I suspect this is where the cheapo's fall down (or gain, depending on where you come from). Therefore I go AA westbound to NRT (via DFW) or BA eastbound to LGW (via IAH). Southwest doesn't come into it airmiles does. So I suppose the cheapoe's aren't interested in the feeders? I dunno, just give us SLf the best deal

[rockon tommy]

I agree with Caulfield,whilst there is an increasing place for low cost travel,the idea of businessmen or any other traveller for that
matter, having no option but to travel with the
peasant masses fills me with horror.

[AndyL]

Although not directly responsible for recruitment, I spoke for eJ at the BALPA conference so I'm just jumping in to answer Rinky's appeal for an 'insider' to answer his question regarding how the LGW expansion affects plans for EDI and GLA.

The current situation is that we have crews based in each of GLA and EDI, with others assigned to those bases either under training, or scheduled to join in the coming months. However, we will still be needing further pilots for those bases during 2002 as the expansion in Scotland continues. If anyone comes along for recruitment at the moment and expresses a first choice for GLA or EDI, there is a very good chance of getting it.

Hope that helps to clarify that point.

Wishing everyone a great Christmas.

Kind Regards, AndyL

[topman]

Rockon Tommy.

"Peasant Masses"?

Your attitude stinks. Look at most easy flights and you'll find a reasonable percentage are business people who are fed up paying the so called "full service" operators rip off prices.

The rest are probably people who couldn't afford to travel at the normal prices anyway. Is it something to do with "Ego" that makes you want to pay 3 times the price?

[corsaman]

Caulfield
I have twelve years cabin service/dispatch experience with British Midland, Airtours and British Airways. Following the big heave-ho from the latter, I am now looking forward to serving easyJet in the New Year and can assure you, that at 36 years old, I wouldn't dream of throwing a sandwich at anyone! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Tug]

I know three millionaires who travel on easy and Ryanair when it suits. Probably why they are so rich! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[rockon tommy]

Topman: Sounds like you have never travelled
as a charter pax, its not something to volunteer for.Less of course you have got a shellsuit?

[Skyjob]

Caulfield, [quote] "What a shame that would be...all of us,Brits and unsuspecting transit passengers who might be visiting Britain for the first time,being herded onto these orange fat alberts by people with little or no grace and manners..being snapped at by teenage cabin crew and thrown a cheese and ham sandwich..all of us being thrown into this orange melting pot of proletarian mediocrity."

I'm glad you are so informed as to the quality of our (cabin) crews, more so then our company. Maybe you'd like to join our Orange company and start off as head of recruitment? What's more worrying then your opinion about our crews, is that people like you dare to write the above, downgrading people just because they work for easyJet, the low cost carrier! Can I ask you if you've ever flown on one of our (new) aircraft recently and enjoyed the comfort of a quiet cabin being served on the press of the call-button when required? Or are your opinions based on rumouirs rather than facts? In which case I cannot wait to hear what you've heard about us pilots...

(As a lady in row 1 was very scared recently to see the captain come out the flightdeck go to the toilet. After she buckled in and grabbed her belongings tightly, the captain asked her what the problem was. Her reply was short and to the point, "Surely easyJet can't afford two pilots in there!")

[ 23 December 2001: Message edited by: Skyjob ]</p>

[Gypsy]

Caulfield and Rockon Tommy are just sad sad people. Haven't seen any teenage cabin crew in ezy and many pilots have come from what these 2 warped individuals would describe as 'real airlines', therefore one wonders how they suddenly lost their manners and good grace when they moved jobs.

If you want to talk about bad manners and poor grace - look at yourselves

[Puritan]

Hey AndyL, have you managed to trim-down that promo-video yet ? <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

That said, (imho) it'd make great 'streaming media' and perhaps you should ask the eJ IT/Systems folks to put it up on the eJ web - seriously.

Ps. I was seated in row 2 at the conference, and I too also remember AE with much fondness.

[Katy]

Caulfield

There are no teenage cabin crew at ezy. Minimum age is 20.

Next time you post a reply perhaps you would be kind enough to include some factual information regarding the Company.

I expect a long silence!!!

[rockon tommy]

Gentlemen, please. I most certainly have no
disrespect for cabin crew,indeed I admire them
for putting up with the masses on a daily bases.
My basic view is that in the uk we always go for
lowest price regardless of standards, whilst I
believe we should go for a minimum standard
regardless of cost.Like the Germans for example!

[nice_beaver]

Caulfield,

It all depends on how you want to define mediocre really. Having just completed a BA 767 flight
LHR - Grand Cayman via Nassau and back I afraid i can honestly say it goes down as one of the most mediocre experiences of my 35 years travelling by air.

Perfectly acceptable flight , although its a long way in a 767 and the 2 hour turn around in Nassau for the 1:20 leg to Cayman seemed a bit excessive, but the cabin service was appauling. Quick race through with drinks, meal dispensed with all the grace and favour of the military canteen, wait 2 hours to clear the debris and then nothing for hours. Indeed during these hours of nothing the cabin crew were sitting in the rear galley chatting with each other and reading the papers and showing passengers where the coffee & tea was so they could make their own.

The return flight was no different.

I'm sorry but even your "full service" carriers have their mediocrity so if your in a glass house , better not throw stones!!

[caulfield]

Naturally,I would expect people who work for this company to defend it.
I have experienced low-cost travel on both sides of the Atlantic and apart from Southwest which is a shining exception,it has been consistently disappointing,if not demeaning.That has been my experience and I stand by it.
As for their pilots...well,obviously passengers dont see too much of them.Their impression of an airline is largely based on how they're treated by the other staff,the ones that are supposed to have at least some training in customer services,the ones that are supposed to see the passengers as their guests on board not as an annoying nuisance,the ones that are supposed to help the passengers to their seats and hang their coats not remain hidden behind the curtain at the back chatting about god-knows what,the ones that should know that a PA should at least be audible(dangerous if theres an emergency) but shouldn't deafen the poor passengers either...and so on.
Passengers arent stupid,they NOTICE these things.Its about taking pride in your job,and if you dont like your job and see the passengers as the enemy,then you have no business being there.

SWA understand that low-cost travel isnt a ticket to ignore or disrespect the passengers.They dont pamper or cosset but they're reasonably attentive and POLITE.And their staff are predominantly late twenties/thirties.
Perhaps you should take a leaf out of SWA's book or send a quality control team out to the far east and see how its done..their customer service is always impeccable,whether its major carrier(SIA) or low-cost(JAL Express).
Is that silent enough for you?

[topman]

Gypsy.

Spot On.

caulfield and Rockon Tommy would appear to be classic examples of dinosaurs.

Rockon Tommy, do you realy think that low cost travellers are all "shell suits". "Wake up Man", the worlds changing fast. change with it or fail!

The companys that don't or won't change will not be around for long.

[arrow2]

As SLF, both business and personal travel, I use low cost carriers on probably some 6 return trips a year and full cost (!) carriers every 2 weeks or so, usually BA due to company policy. Apart from a couple of delays I have had only good experience of FR, EZY, GO and Buzz. With the possible exception of Buzz (whose 146s are a little tired) the aircraft are clean, cabin crew polite, coffee tastes better than BA and the airports they use can be very fast to get in / out of. Better than charter any day and long may they continue. Business wise BA service remains fair to good and predictable although fares horrendous. If Easy or any of the others flew from LGW or LHR to LIS / MAD more often then I would certainly use them for business if company allowed. I'm off to Geneva on Fri skiing - only using BA because I booked early enough to get Airmiles seats - a friend coming on the trip was quoted in excess of £520 on BA for an economy 7 day return from LHR!!! He ended up booking on EZY and saved himself nearly £300.

A2

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Very interesting to hear of LGP/AGP for easyJet. They will compete directly with BA in theory but in reality the route is run by GB on their behalf. Unlike BA, GB is a very lean, mean organisation and have costs lower than easyJet. I am not convinced that easyJet will beat GB off the route.

I should declare my hand here. I have recently joined GB and my other job offer was from easyJet. I therefore can comment on the recruitment and selection process for easyJet without any ill-feeling because of rejection. I really liked the company but the recruitment side of easyJet was very poor. I had to wait months (literally) to get a date for the recruitment day. I e-mailed them on several occasions to try and get an idea of what was happening. Eventually I was invited to the assessment day and they promised to be back in touch within a week with the result. After 3 weeks I phoned them and they were a bit embarrassed but said I had been successful and should have been e-mailed to be invited for the sim ride. I then went to the sim ride 2 weeks later and was told I would be contacted within 'a few days'. Another 3 weeks went by and eventually I phoned them and was told again that I should have been e-mailed but that I had been accepted. In parallel with this I had my application to GB going through. GB made telephone contact early on and kept in touch throughout. They gave me a date fairly quickly for the interview. On my way home from the interview they telephoned me on my mobile and offered me a sim ride for 2 days later. I did the sim on the Friday and was phoned the following Monday that I had been successful. As a postscript, 2 months after I had written to easyJet to decline their kind offer, I got a phone call to ask for my contract of employment to be returned before my start date!

From my point of view, the selection process at easyJet was not very good, particulary in contrast to the efficiency of GB. I would not presume to assess the company on my own very limited experience, but inevitably such experiences leave a less than favourable impression. I would qualify this view and say that I have several friends working for easyJet who did not have the same problems. Had easyJet come through in a reasonable timescale I would have accepted. In the end GB turned up at the same time because of the delay in the processing at easyJet, and after some thought I chose GB. For what it is worth I have been absolutely delighted with GB as a company, but I know many friends who speak equally highly of easyJet as employers.

My honest hope is that easyJet and GB do not go head to head on current GB routes because both carriers have much to lose. This would be a fight between to very efficient carriers that would not be in either's interests.

[Gypsy]

Caulfield - if you look at your last post you'll possibly see one of the longest sentences in the history of PPRUNE; perhaps you belong to the not so well educated masses yourself.

Norman Stanley Fletcher - nice well balanced post and I'm sorry the ezy recruitment process had some flaws in your case. I've also admired much about GB over the years but I'm not sure I'd agree that their costs are as low as ezy. The only mitigation that could be offered for the poor communication throughout your ezy recruitment process would be the size of the task. GB only recruit a handful of pilots and its much easier to be efficient with small numbers - anyway as I said its only mitigation not an excuse.

As far as waiting a long time before being called forward goes I'd disagree that this indicates a poor recruitment process. The same happens at Emirates and I don't hear the same criticism being labelled at them. The truth in ezy is that we have a massive task and hundreds of applicants - it takes time.

Anyway good luck with GB.

[In trim]

Norman Stanley Fletcher - I ech what has just been said in terms of a well-balanced and argued post. However, there is no way that GB have lower costs than easy. I have worked for a BA franchise airline for years, and am familiar with the costs associated with offering a BA product, in terms of catering, check-in, lounges, Club Class configuration / galleys etc.

All this impacts on turnround time (and hence utilisation) as well.....easy can turn a full 737 round in 25-30 minutes on an international sector (20-25 on domestic), and get far better utilisation out of their aircraft than BA operators will ever achieve......the product is simply different, and it takes time to check and count Club catering, change Club class configuration, load freight, and simply for passengers to seat themselves when they have seat numbers and a BA cabin baggage allowance, rather than free-seating.

easyJet already have an infrastructure at all the airports just announced from LGW (they already operate AGP from LTN and LPL), so marginal cost will be small, and this will reduce the average cost per turnround overall.....very attractive.

I have a lot of admiration for GB, and was myself offered a very tempting position with them a few years ago which I turned down for personal reasons at the time....but I do think they will have a battle on their hands on this route.

In trim

[Augustus Finknottle]

Gypsy,

Why is it that you low cost types are constantly having to defend yourselves ?

I submit:

Ridiculous defence tactic No 1:

Why are you complaining – didn’t easyJet offer you a job ?

Well, from the number of waifs and strays that are now working for easyJet I don’t think this argument holds much water.. From sacked management types to failed “captains” to daddy pays for the licence F/Os – easyJet has them all.

Do you see Britannia / Airtours / Air 2000 / BMI / BA plastering ads all over the place – NO. Pilots come to them.

Ridiculous defence tactic No 2:

“Big Airways is getting it’s comeuppance – easyJet are fighting the evil giant just like Air Europe, Dan Air, Laker and Virgin” ( paraphrasing your quote on page 2).

Well, three out of that lot went bust and the fourth is in big trouble. Pride cometh.....

Ridiculous defence tactic No 3:

The world is changing – the shell suited masses are the future.

I doubt any sane person other than the low cost spin doctors (and the deluded pilots that listen to their crap) believe this one.

Ridiculous defence tactic No 4:

We don’t mind working 100 hours a month, 6 sector days and taking min-rest in doss houses – Slelios / Michael / Barbara really respect us for doing it. After all “we’re all part of a team”

No comment required on this one.

Ridiculous defence tactic No 5:

We’re well paid for working hard.

Really ?


In conclusion, why not take that big chip off your shoulder – accept you’re at the bottom of the big aviation barrel and get on with it. If you’re not able to do this, then apply for a proper job – unless of course you already have, and got turned down. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Toodle Pip, Gussy. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Gypsy]

Augustus whatsit - and that shows (as your previous posts on another thread have done) that you are just another individual with a head bigger than it should be.

If you look at my reply to Norman Stanley you'll see I have no problem with accepting critcism when it is well put and based on fact. I do however object to postings where the author claims to have factual knowledge but in fact displays that he knows little.

You have also failed in the simple deduction of my reference to the airlines that BA alledgedly helped to stick the knife in. The fact that BA are now struggling (and they are) is to many in our profession a case of what goes around comes around.

The final flaw in your obvious intellectual ability is to work out that the reason the low cost airlines advertise a lot is because they are recruiting a lot whereas the companies you mention sadly are not.

Your remarks about the pilots employed by ezy also show your ludicrous perception, which I suspect are completely founded on lounge bar tittle tattle and something you saw on ITV.

Try to think before you write

[ 24 December 2001: Message edited by: Gypsy ]</p>

[Puritan]

Here, here, Gypsy.

E.g. I believe it's pretty true to say that Go have never advertised for pilots (well not until very recently at least - for the proposed EDI basing if my memory serves me right) and yet they're not short of applicants - as I'm sure is also true of eJ.

Note: Edited due to a grammatical error which Augustus Finknottle was most kind to point out to me - but whilst I'm here (Nb. I got it right that time, duh), AF could you please explain to us how is it that Go were able to recruit, what, 200'ish pilots without the need to advertise, given that 'low cost ops' are, apparently (at least according to your sentiments), such rubbish ?!
Ok, it's not for some, I'll agree, but there are always horses for courses old son.
Ps. Might I suggest a nights sleep and a sober mind, before you reply; and the seasons felicitations to you too !

[ 24 December 2001: Message edited by: Puritan ]</p>

[Augustus Finknottle]

Gypo,

Thanks for the prompt reply. Most people would take longer but in your case I get the feeling that you have nothing better to do than surf the net.

Firstly, I dispute your ability to accept “critcism” - never mind spell it.

Secondly, I’ve never been in a “lounge bar” in my life. I do however suspect that you lot spend a lot of time in such a place – Brings to mind an old joke –

How can you tell a pilot in a lounge bar ?.

No need to – he’ll tell you.

What happens when you tell the Bint that you work for easyJet ? - Home alone I guess.

Finally, thank you for the grovelling (and somewhat perceptive) remark about my “obvious intellectual ability” – I’m not in the recruiting department so you are wasting your time.

I’m getting bored with this now so I’m “alledgedly” (have you ever been to school !!??) off to the pub.

Toodle Pip, Gussy

[airbrakes]

Norman Stanley....

Good luck at GB. I guess we all have a different story to tell.I have just started at easy and found the selection process both enjoyable and well organised. In my case, call on Tues, selection day Weds, sim test Thurs, job offer Fri, start on Mon. Much better than the prospect of working over Christmas to the end of my notice period in January! My employer was good enough to release me early to facilitate a quick start. Nothing like being flexible.

Like it or loathe it, easy are going to go from strength to strength, and I am happy to be on the back of it. Their business plan is clearly working.

Caulfield...the most mediocre thing I have come across on this site is your first posting on this thread. Wake up and smell the coffee. Times are changing. The public will get what the public wants. The days of Imperial Airways are over. Did you work for them in a former life?

Augustus Finknottle...you obviously had something to get off your chest. Are you perhaps concerned that the business plan of your current employer may not be up to the challenge? There are possibly several hundred guys and gals out there who like me, do not consider a job at ej to be "scraping the bottom of the aviation barrel". I will however, be getting on with it.

Best of luck and a prosperous New Year to all!

[Augustus Finknottle]

Puritan,

Just before I head down to the Fox and Firkin may I point out that, should you choose to affirm support for a previous comment you might like to use the term:

Here, Here...

Your choice of "hear hear" would be more suited to my Labrador. Assuming you are not deaf of course.

Toodel Pip, Gussy.

[Gypsy]

Gussy

Forgot to answer a couple of your points

Myself - no chip, came here by choice and nowheres perfect but ezys better than many.

My own past - not too many different airlines - most of them in the LHS including widebody command for a flag carrier. Great job but eventually got fed up with the longhaul - for what its worth the missus really likes ezy as she sees a lot more of me now. Also I've thankfully never been in the position of applying for a pilot job and not being offered it - doesn't make me special just lucky.

Why do pilots in ezy and other low cost airlines jump in to defend their airlines - because certain ill informed twonks spread unpleasant lies about them I suppose. Consider 'ezy pilots are all waifs and strays' (plenty of them mysteriously are from what I believe you would call full service airlines such as SQ, CX, MH, RBA, GF, VS and even BA) or someone elses mention about 'poor grace and bad manners'. If a thread started that all BA pilots were a bunch of stuck up arrogant Nigels then I'd expect several fairly swift respones from offended BA pilots. I should quickly say that is a hypothetical post and I make it quite clear that I would not support such a thread - several friends with BA.

Anyway, when you get back from the lounge bar perhaps you should get your CRM manual out and you might learn something.

[ 24 December 2001: Message edited by: Gypsy ]</p>

[kfw]

My mate an HR guru had to make himself redundant and went looking for a job to run HR at ezy .

He took one look and decided to wait for a better company to come along .

It did and he is now a VP for a large ww hotel grp .

He did not rate ezy very highly that was his opinion as a v experienced co director .

Was he offered the job ? He withdrew his application .

[Mother]

kfw
And was this the same mate who suggested buying BA shares rather than "low cost shares".

[Rikky Ramjet]

So Folks, all BS aside, how many years till EZY are in partnership to supply BA with shorthaul connections to their "exclusive" long haul ops? My money is circa 2005, if not B4. That should cause an "orange glow" on the horizon!!

[Katy]

Almost correct, Rikky.

More a case of BA providing long-haul connections to easyJet's short-haul routes.

For example:

Across USA (Southwest), across Atlantic (BA), across Europe (easyJet). Just a shame you can not cut out the middle-man!!!

[tailscrape]

Gypsy,

An interview is a two way thing.

I didn't like ej and I guess they din't like me. I am not too worried about losing my job thanks. You should think "Tongue in Cheek"....

Any company who calls you for interview for a LGW basing and then tells you "you will HAVE TO go to Edinburgh" is in my opinion taking the p"ss mate.

I asked them not 15 hours ahead of the interview to confirm the T and C's and basing. They effectively didn't tell me the truth.

So, quite frankly gypsy I was not interested. I fly a NICER, BIGGER airplane than the 737 so I couldn't give a flying f?ck about not being orange enough to work at eJ.

I am proud to have my standards and quite frankly, your beloved ej didn't come anywhere near them for me.

Believe the hype if you like, but all the BBQ's in the world on Friday nights will not disguise the fact it is a cheap outfit, with a very average package compared to other airlines....most definitely compared to the current line I am with.

I am staggered that you really believe I should be p'd off because I didn't get into ej. Before you ask, I didn't even apply for the job this year. I applied when I had very few hours and no jet time. A FREAK chance got me the interview.

I am glad you enjoy your job. But do stop ramming it down my throat mate. It aint for me.

If you are not on the assessment/recruitment panel , you should be. You seem the ideal character to p#ss a load more decent pilots off with the orange boll'cks that seems to freely stream from your gob.

Anyhow, no thanks mate. I will pass up the free BBQ's and odd beer for a decent pension and much higher salaries with my mob. Goodbye.

Yours most definitely not orange.

p.s. Augustus. You seem like a well balanced individual. Where is this mutual ej disliking pub you speak of?!?!

[ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: tailscrape ]</p>

[Rikky Ramjet]

Tailscrape

One has to wonder just why you bothered at all with ej interview process if the pension at your current mob is so good. Perhaps you just wanted the practise...

Sleep till you're hungry, eat till you're tired!!

[Peter Skellan]

Good luck in Just Murdered Caledonian Tailsrape. The 757-300 is indeed a very nice machine, hasn't quite got the performance of Boeing NG Pocket Rocket but it does stop well once its bled of its speed oh so slowly.

So you didn't like easyJet. Fair enough.

Lets take a staw poll. You have to join either JMC or easyJet starting next week. Which would you choose? I think most would go with easyJet simply for job security in these turbulent times.

You've made your choice. Others have made theres. Lets act like adults and respect that.

Oh, and Tailscrape, my 'Planes bigger than yours. ;-)

PS

[Devils Advocate]

Indeed, and if by way of 'size is not everything', a mate of mine captains a Gulfstream IV and takes home over £10k (yes, that should read as over ten thousand UK Stirling Pounds, NET) per month !!!

That said, he's never at home, lives out of a suitcase, and accordingly he's applied (and been offered a job) with GoFly - uhm, I wonder if he needs a replacement ?!

[tailscrape]

Rikky Ramjet,

Answer to your rather facile question.....because I was asked to attend, and I am naturally curious so I thought I would have a look. I didn't like what I saw. So fair do's.

Peter Skellan,

To put an answer to something YOU obviously can't quite grasp: here goes....

Given the choice to join ej or jmc next week. Well, the fact is I joined jmc a while ago. The OVERRIDING fact in my opinion is that I still prefer them to you lot.

What speaks volumes is that I would not join ej next week irrespective of base or conditions. Therefore, I answer it simply: jmc still have my vote over ej. It is all about personal choice. So, please don't think I am trying to offend you ej people. I just didn't think your company is all that.

The grass is not always greener boys......no matter how you want to dress it up!

As far as climb rates and slowing a 753 down, who cares?

I still believe we have a better package all round and that is what I prefer jmc for.

Who knows what the future will hold? But as someone said before "pride comes before a fall."

Whether that will be me this time who knows?? It could be ej in the future though as well. You are doing o.k. now, but that may not last forever.

History suggests this has always been the case! But as we all know now, ej are different aren't they?!?

Anyhow, I will sign off now.

Sorry to have diverted the scintillating debate chaps! Roll on more tailscrape slagging.....

[Gypsy]

Tailscrape - wow - angry boy. Is that better package at JMC before or after the 10% pay cut?

One of the lessons in life as you grow up is don't go for interviews unless you really want the job.

Try not to get so angry in future as well - something has clearly got under your skin.

[Reagan]

You don't appear to be a happy bunny at all, do you Tailscrape? All that money and superb pension to look forward to!

To put a few things into perspective: airlines tell the truth on the day, as they see it. You should know that aviation is ever changing and evolving. I know a number of people who have been offered positions with different - not low cost - airlines, who have had offers of employment subsequently withdrawn, after they had resigned. Some of those people are now unemployed!

Personally, I found the ezy application/interview procedure to be excellent. Invited in for i/v 3 days after application, informed i/v result that afternoon and sent straight to S'ampton for sim the next day. Informed of final result 3 days later. I know they had their problems in the past but they appear to have sorted most of them out.

As a matter of interest, I got through the BA selection in '96, and was left in the 'hold pool' for 4 yrs. Is that the way it should be done?

I am happily starting with ezy in the new year, due to it's continued growth. Had JMC offered me a position before the 11th Sept', do you really think I would still be starting in a few days? I very much doubt it.

By the way, at my ezy i/v I had the least number of hours - 2500. Ezy pilots can't ALL be crap can they??

[gul dukat]

Any chance this thread could come back off it's own nav and talk about the routes? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[OrsonCart]

The Times


Directions: Travel news: Easier-Jet for the south

Easier-Jet for the south

The low-cost airline EasyJet hopes to make Gatwick its main base for cheap flights to Europe by next summer. In February, the no-frills carrier, which is currently based primarily at Luton, will double the number of routes it serves from London's second airport by launching flights to Edinburgh, Zurich, Malaga and Palma. These will complement its existing network of
Amsterdam, Barcelona, Geneva and Nice. The move will make it the second-largest scheduled airline at Gatwick behind British Airways (BA).

EasyJet (0870 600 0000; <a href="http://www.easyjet.com" target="_blank">http://www.easyjet.com</a> wants to capitalise on the large catchment area in central and south London
and the southern counties, as well as Gatwick's superior public-transport links. Previous attempts to develop the airport had
been thwarted by BA, which holds nearly 65% of all Gatwick's takeoff and landing slots. However, since September 11, BA has been forced to withdraw from several European routes and EasyJet has been quick to pounce on the spare capacity. It hopes to launch more flights in the forthcoming months, as BA relinquishes further routes and concentrates its operations on Heathrow.

EasyJet's new Gatwick flights all launch within the space of three days. From February 12, there will be five flights a day to
Edinburgh; from February 13, twice-daily flights to Zurich; and from February 14, flights will leave twice a day for Malaga and once for Palma. Fares will be from £55 return, including taxes.

EasyJet's expansion is the latest episode in the low-cost airlines' success story. Earlier this month, Buzz (0870 240 7070;
<a href="http://www.buzzaway.com/)" target="_blank">http://www.buzzaway.com/)</a> announced that it is increasing its French services and would overtake Air France as the biggest carrier to France from the UK, and Go (0870 607 6543; <a href="http://www.go-fly.com" target="_blank">http://www.go-fly.com</a> revealed that it will begin operations from East Midlands airport, just outside Leicester, from next May, flying to several destinations in France and Spain. Ryanair is also expected to launch new services within the next few months.

[Zerfas]

But you're not bitter Tailscrape! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[tailscrape]

To all you tailscrape knockers:

No I am not bitter, i am enjoying a lovely time (not holiday) with my family.

I did not accept any pay cut.

Can't u accept the fact I actually enjoy my job and think i work for a better company than you............i think u lot sound bitter.

Anyhow. All the best for 2002. Even though u lot seem to be too keen to be offensive.

[Billy Whizz]

Hi Tailscrape.
I see from your threads that you were an ATP cadet and went to JMC. Was your eJ interview during your time on the scheme? And if so was JMC also as a result of the ATP Academy? Just interested, because if so an ATP Cadet saying any company did not come up their own high standards seems a little rich? Just hoping you might be able to clear up the general interest in your dig at the low cost boys. Thanks!

[Mad Max]

So Tailscrape you didn't get in to easyJet?

BOY! Were we LUCKY OR WHAT!

Grow up sonny, don't be a to55er all your life, take a year out!

Max <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Gypsy]

Hey tailscrape - I guess we'll have to let up on you but just consider: -

In your post on another thread about a new operator at NCL you said something like 'I may be looking for a job soon', so don't give us the 'you blessed ezy with attending the interview they asked to to come along to but then you turned the job down' routine - afraid it doesn't add up.

We're not bitter - we work for ezy and have not applied to JMC whilst you on the other hand work for JMC and came along to an interview with ezy - is this getting through?

As I said before the good advice is not to go to interviews unless you want the job - no point scorching bridges that you might need in the future!

Finally I wish you and all others in JMC well - I'm sure its a good company and I hope you all pull through.

[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: Gypsy ]</p>

[The Guvnor]

Hmmm, given a choice between EZY (expanding company going places) and Just Might Collapse flying 753s to TFS at zero dark hundred full of drunken yobbos... well, that's a pretty hard choice. I can see how you had problems with it, Tailscrape :) <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> :)

[Super Stall]

Problems HA!!, You fly exactly what to where Guv. :)

[dik dastardly]

Well Guv, given the choice of winter months doing 4 trips to the Canaries or 6 days a week doing Short sectors in crap weather, I'll take charter ta very much. Now before anyone else kicks off, I've been to Easyland, done it, passed it and it was a pleasant 2 days out. Their product is good, its a company with some great ideas but the package is no better than any other operator of similar equipment. Spent plenty of life working 6 days on, you're welcome to it.

[EPRman]

Guvnor,
You wouldn't be given that choice as you don't hold a pilot's licence.

[The Guvnor]

Actually, EPRMan - I do.

[Billy Whizz]

There may be no such thing as a stupid question in the flying game, but there are definitely occasions when it is better to sit in the corner and watch quietly letting people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and prove it....fmgs!

[ 31 December 2001: Message edited by: Billy Whizz ]</p>

[Reagan]

Well fmgs, 8 sectors a month eh? How many hours of thumb twiddling does that equate to?

[Gypsy]

fmgs - rather blinkered and the odd inaccuracy.

Long haul is great when it suits your personal circumstances - enjoyed it myself once but eventually got bored. Wife also got fed up not seeing me so twas time for a change.

As for those night TFS etc with JMC and the other charter boys - no thanks - I'll take the double AMS anytime - 4 quick sectors and going home after 6 or 7 hours - I know its a line from the ad but the flying really is fun! (don't tell the bean counters)

Horses for courses.

By the way you are inaccurate when you describe eJ as below average package - it beats many including some BA 73 guys I know. When you throw job security in then it probably beats almost all.

[bush]

Tin Tin,
6 days on 3 off as of 1st April 2002.

[nice_beaver]

Its a real mixed bag and although 6 on 3 off sounds harsh it can be made up of :

LPL-AMS vv 08.30-11.40
LPL-NCE vv 05.10-10.20
LPL-PMI vv 05.20-11.20
LPL-BCN vv 06.45-12.30
LPL-GVA vv 06.40-11.05

not to forget though

LPL-BCN-LPL-AMS-LPL 10.30-19.55

Its all in the rostering

[tailscrape]

FMGS,

I was wondering if I was the only sane person in the world.

I am glad to have met someone who is not so blinkered as many on this thread.

Gypsy:

All companies have ups and downs. Yours may be in an up. Mine may be in a down. Who knows?

Mad Max,

I guess you were lucky. Thank F£ck I will never meet you. Don't turn it into a personal attack by calling me names. Be warned.

Gypsy (again):

All companies must beware of shouting their mouths off too much. Job safety at the mo....yep. You have it. So did we last year. Remember that. It never does good to shout your mouth off at other people's misfortune in other companies.

If as your "leaders" imply, a 25% growth per year (which they quoted) I imagine your company will become very unstable very quickly. So don't make me remind you of your smart comments please in the future. I hope you thrive and prosper.

Your failure would be good for no one, neither would ours, so stop being such a smug bloke and wind your neck in please.

I still maintain, that I will take my chances where I am . Threats or not.

The Guvnor: Shouldn't you be trawling up some sh*t to bore us with here? The day you learn to talk out of your mouth I will be the emperor of China. Please pull your trousers back up. The deafening chatter emanating from your a?sehole is killing me.

Orange? Me? No, my blood flows green......the colour of pound notes as you may recall.

[Gypsy]

tailscrape - you still haven't got the message.

Nobody was shooting their mouths off - twonks like you come along and start making inaccurate babbles about ezy so don't be surprised if you get some response.

We are confident in our company and thats great not only for us but for the industry as a whole - our confidence is based upon the fact we have a pretty good idea about what is going on both commercially and financially within ezy - not some pep talk from management.

You've already mentioned your inexperience - it shows so until you've got some, the clever trick is watch, listen and learn. A lot goes on in this industry that you haven't even begun to understand.

PS: Thanks for your wisdom but I think Stelios is managing quite well without your advice on expansion

[BTB]

Tailscrape; interesting opinions you have there. Questions: How many airlines have you worked for?(I have worked for, amongst others, both yours and easyjet) And where did you aquire such an amazing knowledge of the industry, and in particular, easyjet? Finally, how come such an interesting handle; personal experience, perhaps?

Keep posting, it makes us at probably the most secure and progressive airline in the industry feel smug and relieved that we don`t have to carry you and your attitude along with us at our workplace.

Come back in 12 months time; you may have reason to regret being so dismissive of Gypsy and his ilk.

[Wycombe]

A while ago on this thread the Guv commented:

"....given a choice between EZY (expanding company going places) and Just Might Collapse flying 753s to TFS at zero dark hundred full of drunken yobbos... well, that's a pretty hard choice....."

Back in Sept, I pax'ed with JMC LGW-TFS on a 320
full of happy, well-behaved holiday-makers (mostly couples and young families like me). I was glad I wasn't travelling with the rowdy drunken rabble that turned up to board the EZY to AMS at the gate next to us.

Moral of this is, an airline cannot choose it's pax....all airlines offer at least some "cheap" fares (witness the latest BA offers), so risk attracting pax they would perhaps rather not carry given the choice.

[southern softy]

or how about a jmc full of 18-30 yobs next to an orange 737 full of pax on their way to agp who all own their own property.

please compare like for like or keep it shut.

[Mad Max]

Tailscraper, try to relax and stop behaving in a threatening manner.

As some others have indicated here, perhaps you have an "experience" problem. There are those amongst us who have done your job in the past for many years, often in charter companies that were run by "travel experts" - with great plans for the future and they all came to nought.

For many of us now the trick is to get home most nights and work for an employer that is actually employing more pilots rather than one that is looking to make redund... redu... NO, I'm sorry I cannot even bring myself to say the word - it is abhorrent to me and many of my colleagues.

Now go and take a Cool Tablet Brother and prepare for your next night TFS, or maybe HER, PFO anybody? (I hated PFO)

Max <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Wycombe]

SS, you wrote:

"or how about a jmc full of 18-30 yobs next to an orange 737 full of pax on their way to agp who all own their own property...."

Which illustrates the point I was making exactly....no airline has a monopoly on a particular "standard" of pax (think how often we hear high-profile stories about people misbehaving in F/J Class aswell!!)

I think you misunderstood me...I was trying to add some perspective, not get involved in a "who's airline is best" debate!

[coldsore]

Tailcrapper,

If I call you a name will you get me after school.

I'll recognize you as the stick thin pencil neck hiding in the saddows with the faint smell of bodily waste.

Don't give an opinion if the return hurts.
Above all don't issue threats.

To everyone else-Happy New Year,good luck,jobs, safe...etc

[ghost-rider]

I'm sick to death of all the crap thrown our way about how bad EZY are, about 'orange' etc etc etc

True, we're not perfect and often have hiccups ( like ANY other airline <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> ) and we don't profess otherwise ! We do try to deliver a solid product though ! It may not be to everyone's taste, but c'est la vie ! True, you may not like it but on the other hand you may do ! Either way - it's your choice !

It's simple - our aircraft are flown by normal, professional crews that may or may not have worked for other airlines, and may or may not move elsewhere after a stint here. Point is - they are normal aircrews !!! Just like the ones seen at airports around the world ! They do NOT have two heads, three arms, etc etc etc or are painted orange !

Our aircraft use jet-A1 like other aircraft - NOT orange juice as suggested !

We work to the same CAA/JAR-Ops rules as other carriers.

Safety is NEVER compromised !! In fact, some of our regs are more sringent than other carriers !

Whatever the commercial side get up to is nothing to do with us ! They do their thing, we do ours ! If you don't like the advertising / PR methods then that's fine by me ! Some of it makes me cringe if the truth be known !

NONE of us like seeing others lose their jobs or suffer any hardships. We're in the same game as you after all ! It could happen to anyone !


I personally though do get annoyed when we get slagged off for stuff beyond our control, and accused of being 'unsafe', 'unprofessional', etc etc etc.

So to all those that keep having a go all the time, ( charterguy, tailscrape etc ) give it a rest ! It's boring ! If we slagged off your companies all the time you'd snap back !

Just grow up ! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

After Sep 11th, arguments about 'my airline is better than yours' are trivial, abusive and insensitive to the extreme !! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

Oh and any chance of keeping topics relevent to their title ??

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]</p>

[noax2grind]

Well said Ghost!!
Some of you guys should read back over what has been written and ask yourselves if that is how you want your fellow professionals, junior collegues and passengers to perceive you!
Prune can be the source of a lot of useful info and some interesting rumours. It should not be place for people, who should have better things to do with their time, to vent their spleen on strangers.
Have a happy and safe 2002.......Everyone!!

[corsaman]

Hi Guys - just a message - hopefully not too out of place as I'm a Flight Attendant - I've 12 years experience with BM as a senior cabin crew member, besides some flying with AIH, and six years dispatching at BA - following the closure of BA at BFS, I'm about to join the c/c base with EZY at BFS where I am told the first intake are made up of a very experienced bunch. I just wanted to say I'm excited by the future, satisfied with the rewards on paper and looking forward to offering true 'Customer Service' as opposed to 'In-Flight Service', which invariably consisted of serving dodgy bucks fizz, de-clingfilming Russian salads and chasing frozen peas across the flotex in the galley!

[Few Cloudy]

Couple of buddies did the interview last month. They both passed but were amazed at the seriousness and depth of the questions and excercises. OK it's a buyer's market for airlines wanting pilots right now but it still takes effort, time and money to select the best on offer. That seems to me to be a good sign and a crass opposite so some of the "cheap and nasty" comments above. The fleet is very new and well maintained too.

Now where were we - Gatwick - a good place to pick up south of the Thames pax - will expand - won't replace LTN.

[Augustus Finknottle]

Geeez,

I don't believe you low cost boys...... I go away for a week and when I come back, you're still at it. I'm surprised that Mad Max, eaZys bullsh!t spin doctor (and total toZZer) took so long to pitch in though.

As I said 3 pages and 8 days ago............

"why not take that big chip off your shoulder – accept you’re at the bottom of the big aviation barrel and get on with it. If you’re not able to do this, then apply for a proper job – unless of course you already have, and got turned down".

Mad Max knows what it's like to get turned down by the proper airlines and look how he's turned out. Even more profound when you see that Max almost always counters genuine critics with "you are only anti easyJet 'cos you didn't you get in ?" (see above and 20 + other posts of his)

So stop encouraging these people and just get on with it - The industry really doesn't need any more like him. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">


Toodle Pip, Gussy.

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Augustus Finknottle ]</p>

[tailscrape]

To all you eJ boys/girls who want to be so upset.

I also get home most nights. That is because (certainly now in winter) I do not leave my house. I still get paid full salary and have a lovely relaxed chilled life. Unlike you.

Mad Max. You are the one who became personal and aggressive. Perhaps your failure to move above your current circle of influence bothers you? So, why don't you calm down and stop being aggressive? you start calling people offensive names and you will get a response....mine was measured and reasonable.

I have no idea who you may be and I don't want to.

Enjoy your 4 sectors tomorrow. I will enjoy my 2 and still get paid as much as, if not more than I would if I worked at your place. Oh, I will be in the pub by 9 p.m. tomorrow night. Following a noon check in.

Doesn't sound too bad does it?

I don't recall having to pass a test to see if you will run like lemmings in the same direction at eJ....perhaps they indoctrinate you with that during line training?!?!?

Goodbye. ( I do so enjoy the banter with you lot.) <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[nice_beaver]

I too will be checking in at midday, but i shall be in the pub by 6pm having finished my 2 sectors, whilst you'll still be at FL350 struggling with the Sun crossword !!!!! Grow up.......this does neither you or your company any credit!

NB

[E. MORSE]

Burry the hatchet.

[Gypsy]

Gussy - you're back and from the sound of it not making much progress with the remedial CRM.

Perhaps you could reinforce your obvious wisdom with some personal credibility, such as which 'full service' (as I belive you would call it) carrier you fly for - I'm sure we'd all like to know which unfortunate airline has the benefit of your services.

I personaly think you're probably a wind up - difficult to think that a professional pilot could display such arrogant views.

Tailscrape I can understand because he's only a lad.

[ghost-rider]

Why did I bother ! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[The Guvnor]

All might not be as easy at LGW as Stelios hopes...

From today's Sunday Times:

[quote]BA vows to fight Easyjet at Gatwick
DOMINIC O’CONNELL

BRITISH AIRWAYS has ditched plans for a full-scale retreat from Gatwick, Britain’s second-largest airport.

An exit from Gatwick had been mooted as part of the airline’s “future size and shape” review, an outline of which will be presented to the company’s board at the end of the month.

But one airline insider said yesterday that Gatwick “had a future in the BA network”.

“The airline will still be able to offer a full-service product at Gatwick that will make money against airlines like Easyjet,” the source said. “We will also be able to maintain a small long-haul network there.”

Easyjet recently announced a big expansion at Gatwick. It will be the first time that BA has had direct competition from a low-cost airline at one of its main bases.

BA is likely to deal in part with its continuing losses at Gatwick by handing extra routes to its franchisee GB Airways.

Some radical measures considered in the review, including the loss of 20,000 jobs over five years and a new low-cost airline for Gatwick flights, have been rejected.

But BA staff are still braced for job cuts. The airline has refused to comment on the progress of the review, but it is likely that the worst-performing services, including flights from London to Lyons, Naples, Bologna, Hamburg, Venice and Stuttgart are under threat.

Some long-haul operations also face the axe. Destinations under review include San Diego and most of the airline's South American network.

Gatwick has been a constant headache for BA. Four years ago, the airline invested tens of millions of pounds in an attempt to turn the airport, in West Sussex, into a second Heathrow, with a full range of short- and long-haul services. It also spent £75m buying Gatwick-based CityFlyer Express.

Rod Eddington, BA’s chief executive, has steadily scaled back the airline’s services as losses have mounted.

Some of the review’s sting has been blunted by the performance of BA’s shares last week. Better-than-expected traffic figures from BA and the Dutch airline KLM sent BA shares up 13% on Friday.

BA’s plans for a speedy conclusion of its planned alliance with American Airlines received a fresh setback yesterday with the publication of a critical report from the General Accounting Office (GAO), the audit arm of the US Congress.

The alliance would “dominate markets” between the America and London, and rivals would find it difficult to compete because of congestion at Heathrow, the GAO said.

BA executives are still hopeful of winning approval for the deal. A successful conclusion — which could come in mid-February — would provide the springboard for a £1 billion rights issue to bolster the company’s balance sheet. <hr></blockquote>

[Augustus Finknottle]

Gypo,

Once again, thanks for the endorsement about my “obvious wisdom”. You don’t need to be that wise to spell though – look up “belive” and “personaly” in the dictionary (it’s a big book with lots of words in it).

I can assure you that my posts are most definitely not wind ups, although I have to admit that you LCA boys do give us all a good laugh. :)

Toodle Pip, Gussy.

[Mad Max]

Aye Gussy, you and Tailcrap - what a pair!

Actually you're both giving me a larf on a regular basis.

I still find it hard to believe that you (Gussy) are for real though - the sort of small minded bigotry, combined with arrogant snobbery which exides from your posts in this August Forum defies belief.

I do hope your job's safe pal - you never know whom you might have to apply to these days eh?

Cheery! Max (Spin Doc 4 Easy) <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[ 06 January 2002: Message edited by: Mad Max ]</p>