Bullying / victimisation

[Co ordination unaffected]

Hi

I'm the victim of the above, it's been happening for a while. Some people go 'unnoticed' I don't.

Pretty pissed off, as you can imagine.

Don't want to go into specifics, as that would threaten my anonymity. Tips / hints appreciated.

Many thanks

Paul

[tired-flyboy]

Hard to give tips if you don't give a hint of whats happened, but i understand how you feel.

Are you in a union? (hope they're better than mine!)
If in NATS, what about the critical incident management thingy (there is also the other thing i can't remember the name)

Speak to your boss - if that doesn't work, their boss etc till somebody takes you seriously.

[radarman]

Without details, hard to point you in the right direction. NATS and SERCO have well defined policies on these subjects and it's fairly easy to get the company working for you. In really serious cases it is gross misconduct, which can mean summary dismissal. Other employers should have similar policies, but it may be more difficult to get management on your side. Unions are also pretty hot on bullying too. If it is affecting your controlling you could put in an MOR, and CHIRP is worth a try. But here's an important bit - get a notebook (not a file where pages can be inserted and deleted) and make dated, written notes whenever an incident occurs. This will stand you in very good stead should you have to prove your accusations in any disciplinary hearing. Are colleagues similarly affected? Try to get them on board too.

[notared]

Very good advice from radarman. You must inform your immediate manager as soon as possible, unless of course he is doing the bullying, in which case go to his manager. This kind of behaviour is certainly not tollerated in NATS and almost certainly isn't by any other service provider. Employment law is very clear about bullying and if a company takes no action to curtail it once it has been reported then the company is at fault and can be taken to court. The important thing to do is to act early and don't put up with the abuse in the hope that it will go away, it won't. Good luck you will win in the end.:8

[niknak]

Good advice given so far, but if you are a member of a union it is absolutely vital that you tell them BEFORE you go to your line manager (or their superior if its the line manager harrassing you).
I've seen unit managers make all sorts of nice noises about how they'll deal with the problem and do nothing, either because they don't believe you, can't be bothered, don't know how to deal with it, or, worst of all, if the bully is someone the manager thinks highly of, they somehow want to protect the image of the bully and don't want anything to happen which may tarnish the manager's image.

Get the union involved immediately, it is highly likely that the unit rep' will pass it on immediately to the full time official for them to deal with.
Even if you are not a member of the union, talk to any local rep' - any union representitive worth their salt will give you confidential advice.

Whatever you do, take the advice given so far and act now.

Good luck.

[Stretch]

Are you civil or military ATC?

[radarman]

Why is it that threads in PPRuNe descend so rapidly into petty personal squabbles? It's sometimes more like a school playground than a forum for mature professionals. Coordination unaffected has asked us for advice in solving a serious problem at work. Let's keep future posts on thread, and try and help one of our colleagues out of a difficult situation. Coord PM me if you would like to discuss the matter.

[Sallyann1234]

Quite right.
The offensive reply has been removed by its poster. I have therefore deleted my response to it.

Best wishes to the OP - I hope you can get this serious matter resolved satisfactorily.

[aluminium persuader]

You can also get small micro-cassette recorders & computer-pen-memo thingies (sorry - don't know the technical term) to help with evidence.

[chris_tivver]

You might want to check on recording. I thought recording a conversation without telling the other person still fell foul of the law?

[slip and turn]

How sure about your twopennorth, are you Verci? I've always thought it is ok to tape a conversation you are participating in where at least one party knows of the recording i.e. you.

Whether it is admissible as evidence / can be broadcast is another matter, but your written note of the same conversation would normally be admissible as evidence. If your note happens to be as accurate as the tape then sobeit?

[ferris]

The chief sciolist still spruiking, I see.

Recording a conversation is not illegal if you are party to it. It is at the discretion of the court whether it is admissable in a civil case. Courts will generally accept legal methods that obtain arrival at the truth.

[slip and turn]

Cor blimey :}, quite an educational experience this PPRuNe lark can be :ok:

It don't seem more than a few months since I learned what a sciolist was. Now spruiking enters worldwide usage :8

I found two definitions of a spruiker:

spruiker
noun

(Australian) One who promotes his own cause; one who toots their own horn.
(figurative) A person standing outside a place of business trying to persuade patrons to enter, or vigourously trying to persuade customers to purchase a their wares (ie. a fruiterer calling out the price of bananas).Anyone seen any promoting of any Australian ego-centric causes on this thread? Tooting of horns anyone? Vigorous sales techniques e.g. collaring of punters on pavements? ... Anyone?

... so must be bananas :rolleyes:



But I diverge too far from the seriousness of the thread (my apologies to the OP).

I would also favour quickly communicating with the union on a formal level and be guided by them. I would also try to make and keep notes despite how much of a chore that must be when you are depressed by the intimidating atmosphere.

Thirdly, but perhaps most importantly, and I am sure the OP must have considered it as a first action and doesn't need the reminder, but you ATCOs need to be sure you are 100% mentally fit for duty before each shift, don't you? I am not sure how advisable it is to sign yourself off sick and then seek a medical sign off too, but I am sure the OP must have considered it.

[garp]

Whenever the term bullying and ATC appear in one sentence I have to think back to the "Zagreb" movie I first saw 20 years ago.

[ferris]

Tooting of horns anyone? Yes, slip and turn, quite clear that Verci, the very definition of a sciolist to those who have had the misfortune to meet him, arrives on the thread to shower us all with his amazing knowledge (tooting his own horn). It's a shame that people might actually believe he carries any intellectual weight, as he is wrong. He even begins arguing against his own argument (and using a technique he often uses when backed into a corner- attempt to change the argument by quoting totally unrelated regs about telephone conversations {which still point out that he was wrong}). Hugely comical!!

As for "own use". A method the post starter could use if ever in a courtroom, having recorded conversations as described, is to mention that recordings were made to assist his own memory of events. A civil court would want to hear the recordings, as they would shed light upon the truth. It is within the court's discretion, and should the recorded person object, then the court might find that as very persuasive. I learned this technique from a very clever government official who often found himself in legal situations (recorder in pocket).

Or, you could just take advice from Verci!! He is so smart, and knows lots of things about everything. Just ask him- in fact, don't ask him, just wait. He'll be right along to fill in all the stupid little people like us. It was why he sooooo successful as a manager.
bwahahaaaaahahaaaaaaa

[RAAFASA]

For the OP, have you discussed this with the people responsible for the bullying/victimisation? It might be a case of politically incorrect, but no malice intended - we all work with the odd dinosaur from time to time who doesn't realise that what used to pass for humour, may not be considered amusing any more - often there is no harm intended.

If you are not comfortable approaching the person(s) involved on your own, perhaps take a friend/colleague for support or check if your organisation provides a dedicated equity adviser to moderate the discussion? Otherwise, send an email or letter if you prefer to avoid face to face confrontation. (Just keep a copy of anything you send as you can use it to demonstrate your attempts to resolve the issue if it escalates).

As we don't have the full story, I don't know if this is appropriate in your case, but the general rule is always to try to resolve these issues at the lowest possible level. So if you can just say "look, when you do/say xxxxx, I feel uncomfortable etc" it might help. After all, we're all supposedly adults!

I've had to explain to a few co-workers (over the years) where the appropriate boundaries are. In one case I had to speak to a guy twice and then involve our immediate supervisor to get my point across. But all these issues were resolved without having to resort to paperwork and nastiness. I don't believe any of them were malicious in intent. Once I explained that I really was upset/uncomfortable, the innappropriate behaviour stopped.

Good luck.

[wadi racer]

I agree totally with RAAFSA, we are supposed to be mature adults and should be able to sort things out between peers.
If not then take things further......... Hope it gets sorted

Wadi

[the Shue]

Not all ACC units are the same..duh.

Beyond the obvious traffic density, equipment differences etc, etc... the attitude and atmosphere can be dramatically different from ACC to ACC.

One option is always to change ACCs. Perhaps it is not practical but ATC is much more enjoyable when you are working with a good butch of guys/gals.

Just a thought. :)

[agent007]

Not just at ACC's but aerodromes too. Bullying and Victimisation can be the worst thing for anyone. It can occur in all walks of the profession.
Fortunately I've not seen it very often at any ATSU I have worked at. ATC is a great profession and it should not be allowed EVER to walk our
corridors or live in our towers.:=

[A I]

If the victim has to change unit because of actions of others then the bully has won.

A I

[airac]

Fortunately I've not seen it very often at any ATSU I have worked at.

Before this thread goes much further, I have worked at several units over the years, the only, supposed, incident of bullying, was when a trainee did not receive the glowing reports they felt they deserved.
I am not for one minute saying this is the case ,as in the one reported , but come on; there are always two sides to the story.
ATC was never a profession for the meek.
If it can't be sorted, face to face, then you are in the wrong job.

[Caesartheboogeyman]

I agree. Bullying undoubtedly does affect people and that is not fair. But in my opinion bullying only affects the weak of mind. I can't imagine anything every being sai dto me that I would not dismiss or retort straight away.
ATCO's and the like are generally thick skinned and People who have brought grievances against people in my working life have clearly not been. Not saying that Bullyiing doesn't exist, of course it does, but i believe you can sort it yourself before needing to go through proper channels.

[BurglarsDog]

I was sitting in the sim the other day in a country where english is a second language. Part way through an exercise I had to freeze as my student started to smirk and struggled to suppress a chuckle! There was a kafuffle across the room from a member of a another course during which a young female student was being aggressivly and loudly "debriefed " by her instructor (old retired type instructor ). As it was not in english I asked my student to translate . In a nutshell you wouldnt want to know what was said. Even Gordon Ramskin would have been lost for words!! To say it was inappropriate is putting it mildly. Bullying? Certainly. Retort? No chance. Although officially, the "culture" of 30 years ago that had helped create this type of instructional technique(?) / attitude of the instructor ,was no longer sanctioned, no one was enforcing this on staff members. Ego not empathy was still the Go! I asked a colleague (local) whether this type of behaviour should be bought up to management. He looked at me as though I was mad. We dont "grass" on anyone here he said!!
And they wonder why their failure rate is so high:ugh::ugh::ugh:

DogGone:sad:

[CAP493]

...bullying only affects the weak of mind.
Such an opinion reveals an arrogance and a completely self-centred state of mind. Bullying is all about the perception of the person being bullied and if that person feels threatened or intimidated then it has absolutely nothing to do with being "weak of mind". :yuk:

Turning to the original request for constructive comment and help:

1. Begin keeping a diary of dates and times of these bullying events; it's not necessary to record 'chapter-and-verse', just a brief resume and details of anyone else who might have been present.
2. Consult your union representative.
3. Discuss and agree with your union representative, invoking your company's grievance procedure; if the bullying is by your line manager, then the process begins with his/her line manager - but you need first to make 'best efforts' to discuss it with him/her.
4. If you're not in a union you can get advice from the CAB or GATCO's legal advice line (if you're a member) and there are also some very useful links on the Dept. of Employment's website.

Good luck! And ignore the rantings of ignorant and insensitive people like Caesartheboogeyman. :ok:

[2 sheds]

I am with airac above - and with CAP493's "item 3, sub-section"! The obvious step is often overlooked. Raise the point with the person concerned, in private, but fairly formally and seriously but without being aggressive. Point out your perception of events and how you feel - after all, it is always possible that you might receive an apology and part the best of friends. Bearing in mind that there are always two sides to any dispute, the other party might well feel somewhat aggrieved (regardless of what has transpired) if you go directly to more formal action without bothering to take this step.

[Lurking123]

I can only quote from the military side having seen this as a manager. That said, I suspect civil procedures are quite similar.

Firstly, make sure that you are as objective as possible in you evidence gathering. Ultimately you will get into some form of "He said, she said" type argument.

If you don't feel you can challenge the individual head-on, go to your unit Equal Opportunities Advisor. They are well trained, selected for their attributes and, importantly, are completely trustworthy.

Decide what outcome you want. It is pointless making a complaint if you don't want a particular resolution. I had one young lady who just wanted me to know she was being harassed; she didn't want me to do anything about it. In my mind, that is not good enough.

Respect the bully's anonymity. If you want to remain anonymous, so should they.

Don't dwell on things.

Make sure someone (the EO advisor?) thoroughly explains the procedure - you need to understand it. Proone is not definitive.

Good luck.

[Traffic Is]

But that's not the Proceeeedure...:sad:

[Lurking123]

..... and make sure you can laugh at someone who is taking the pi$$.:ok:

[jonathan3141]

Every case is different. Briefly, in my case, I felt it desparately unfair, I had tried hard to help the person concerned who had performance capability issues, and was utterly unaware that this was being taken as bullying. I still find it hard to understand. The complaint - the very first complaint - was made in the form of a legal letter. There was no attempt at any informal resolution. The result - I resigned immediately because I felt utterly overwhelmed and destroyed. The other person got a small settlement in the end - largely because companies really dread going to tribunals (time consuming, costly, and the outcome is uncertain) - and also left the company. In effect everyone lost.

Different place, different industry, different circumstances. But my point is this. Raise the matter with the person concerned, or if you understandably would rather not, then do so with HR. They will take it seriously. Companies are very concerned to nip this in the bud because the payouts can be very very high if they don't.

A formal complaint will lead to an investigation - which may be the only solution, but is likely to be pretty distressing for you and people around you (who may be questioned in the investigation). Assuming the complaint is upheld, disciplinary action for gross misconduct (and therefore potentially summary dismissal) is a likely outcome for the person accused of bullying. Do it if you have to, but do try to make it your last resort and see if you can resolve the problem less formally.