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daz211
24th Aug 2008, 17:11
Sky news reporting passenger jet down in BISHKEK Kyrgystan.
No more at this time.
Reports of casualties.

Radar Contact
24th Aug 2008, 17:28
3 Boeing 737-200 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737-200) (one aircraft is operated by Kyrgyzstan Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyzstan_Airlines), one aircraft is operated for Antrak Air (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antrak_Air) and one aircraft is operated for Pamir Airways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamir_Airways)) As of May 2008, the average age of the Itek Air fleet is 29.9 years ([1] (http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Itek%20Air.htm)).


Was only time before it happend :(
RIP

daz211
24th Aug 2008, 17:29
The EU has again banned Kyrgyz airlines from landing in EU countries due to their poor safety standards. Some observers believe corruption is rampant within the airlines administrations and does not allow companies to develop and meet international maintenance and safety standards. Heads of the companies, however, disagree, saying many were not inspected by the EU prior to being blacklisted.
http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/2008_07/itek1.jpg

B747-800
24th Aug 2008, 17:44
Jet crashes in Kyrgyzstan - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/24/jet.crash.ap/index.html)


Jet crashes in Kyrgyzstan

<LI class=cnnHiliteHeader _extended="true">Story Highlights <LI _extended="true">Boeing passenger jet crashed while taking off, reports Russian news agencies
<LI _extended="true">There are casualties, and jet is a Boeing 737, agency says, citing unidentified source
<LI _extended="true">Interfax news agency says the Itek-Air flight was headed to Iran
MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- Russian news agencies report that a Boeing passenger jet has crashed while taking off in Kyrgyzstan's capital, Bishkek.
The Interfax news agency cites an unidentified source as saying there are casualties and identifies the plane as a Boeing 737.
RIA-Novosti cites an unnamed spokesperson at a U.S. air base near the airport in Bishkek as saying a passenger airliner crashed. Officials at the airport and the base could not be reached.
Interfax says the Itek-Air flight was headed to Iran.

Spitoon
24th Aug 2008, 17:45
The EU has again banned Kyrgyz airlines from landing in EU countries due to their poor safety standards. Some observers believe corruption is rampant within the airlines administrations and does not allow companies to develop and meet international maintenance and safety standards. Heads of the companies, however, disagree, saying many were not inspected by the EU prior to being blacklisted.
I'm not sure whether the words are your opinion or a quote from somewhere. However, I believe that the approach taken by the EU when compiling the so called blacklist is to look at the national aviation authority arrangements (at least in the first instance). If the CAA or whatever is not doing - or able to do - oversight against EU and international standards then there is no way of knowing whether individual operators are sound. Even if a quick check 'on the day' by EU inspectors were to show that everything is OK, without ongoing oversight at national level there is no guarantee that it will continue to be OK.

Sadly none of this changes anything for those on board.

Darran
24th Aug 2008, 17:45
BBC reporting it as an emergency landing, after take off.

wozzo
24th Aug 2008, 17:51
According to russian news agencies (Interfax, RIA Novosti):

- 123 people on board (according to ministry of public safety)
- flight was to Mashhad, Iran
- an airport official reported, that airplane "fell suddenly after lift-off down", near a village ("Dshangi Dsher"), about 2 kilometers from airport, "упал сразу после взлета в районе села Джанги-Джер"

daz211
24th Aug 2008, 17:52
MOSCOW (Reuters) - A passenger plane crashed at the airport of Kyrgyzstan's capital Bishkek with around 100 people on board, Russian news agencies reported on Sunday.

RIA news agency quoted the press service of the U.S. airbase located at the Bishkek airport Manas as saying the plane crashed on take-off.
"At the moment rescue teams, fire brigades and medics are rushing to the crash site," an airbase spokeswoman told RIA.

Interfax news agency quoted an airport source as saying the Boeing-737 belonged to a private Kyrgyz company Itek-Air and was bound for Iran.
The source said that according to preliminary information 100 people were on board.

All carriers in Kyrgyzstan are subject to a blanket ban on operations to the European Union.

---

B747-800
24th Aug 2008, 18:00
Passenger jet crashes in Kyrgyzstan, news agencies report


MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- A Boeing passenger jet crashed Sunday while taking off from the airport in Kyrgyzstan's capital, Bishkek, Russian news agencies reported.


However, an official at the airport characterized the accident as an emergency landing. The official, who said she had no information about casualties, spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to give her name to the media.


The Interfax news agency quoted an unidentified airport official as saying the plane went down near the airport and that there were casualties. Interfax said the plane was a Boeing-737 with more than 100 people aboard.

The RIA-Novosti news agency quoted an unidentified spokesman at a U.S. air base at Bishkek's Manas airport as saying a passenger plane crashed near a village close to the airport shortly after takeoff. Officials at the U.S. base could not immediately be reached for comment.

Interfax said the plane belonged to a company called Itak-Air and was headed to Mashhad in northeastern Iran.

Felix Saddler
24th Aug 2008, 18:14
Taken from the bbc website:

A passenger plane has crashed shortly after take-off from Kyrgyzstan's capital, Bishkek, reports say.
Alexander Aksyonov from the civil aviation agency has been quoted as saying there are casualties.
Russian news agencies report that the Itek-Air Boeing 737 was on its way to Mashhad, in north-eastern Iran, with up to 100 people on board.
Officials from a nearby US base are reported to have sent a rescue team to the site of the accident.

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | 'Plane crashes in Kyrgyz capital' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7580107.stm)

wozzo
24th Aug 2008, 18:22
Russian news agencies now report it was a flight to Tehran, probably IRC6895 which departed on schedule at 20:30 local time. That would be Iran Aseman Airlines (Iran).

StallStrip
24th Aug 2008, 18:25
Not to much info yet apparently 25 survivors I think it was a 200, a bad week for the Airline industry.:confused:

Ular
24th Aug 2008, 18:25
Flight IRC6895
Registration EX-311
Serial number MSN: 22088 - line 676
First flight: 16 june 1980
Plane Type: Boeing 737-219

charter flight for basketball team
87 aboard, 15 survivors

After take off requested emergency landing
made first attempt unsuccessful
second attempt crashed 10 km to runway

The local authority closed all info sources

StallStrip
24th Aug 2008, 18:27
An airport official said the crash occurred after the crew reported a technical problem on board about 10 minutes into the flight to Tehran, Iran, and said they were returning to the airport. The official spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to give her name. Kyrgyz Interior Minister Maldomusa Kongatiyev told the AP there were seven crew members on board in addition to the 83 passengers. He said the plane went down 6 miles from the airport.
Interfax quoted Kyrgyz Emergency Situations Minister Kamchibek Tashiyev as saying the plane crashed 3 miles from the airport and that it had 123 people on board.

lomapaseo
24th Aug 2008, 18:54
I suppose that we are going to repeat the first 20 pages of the Spanair thread. perhaps we could just insert a direct link into this thread and save the bandwidth. :}

For me I would like to see photos or new reports (including what some call trash reports) and absorb and challenge the reported facts before putting forth causal theories.

any other takers?

tombey
24th Aug 2008, 19:11
"All carriers in Kyrgyzstan are subject to a blanket ban on operations to the European Union."

I don't know how you can compare the Spanair crash to this one.

B747-800
24th Aug 2008, 19:26
Survivors reported after Kyrgyz 737-200 crash (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/08/24/315146/survivors-reported-after-kyrgyz-737-200-crash.html)

Survivors reported after Kyrgyz 737-200 crash (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/08/24/315146/survivors-reported-after-kyrgyz-737-200-crash.html)

green granite
24th Aug 2008, 19:28
I don't know how you can compare the Spanair crash to this one.

Very simple, lots of people dead, but I suppose because it's in that part of the world no-one here is bothered about it. :=

B747-800
24th Aug 2008, 19:40
Officials confirm 25 survivors of Kyrgyz crash - 3rd Update : (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/227782,officials-confirm-25-survivors-of-kyrgyz-crash--3rd-update.html)

Bishkek/Moscow - Kyrgyz officials could only confirm 25 survivors so far of the 90 passengers and crew aboard a 737 passenger airliner that crashed near the country's capital Bishkek on Sunday. Officials corrected the number of persons aboard the plane from a previously reported 123.

Unconfirmed local reports citing Itek Air, the airline that owned the plane, said that around 60 people perished in the crash about 5 kilometres outside the capital city. There was no word as to the fate of the other persons.

The country's Civil Defence Ministry reported that the downed airliner, which had been en route from Bishkek to Iran, was completely consumed by fire.

Itek Air is one of more than a dozen Kyrgyz airlines that are banned from flying into the European Union due to safety concerns.

carbis22
24th Aug 2008, 19:53
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,526


I suppose that we are going to repeat the first 20 pages of the Spanair thread. perhaps we could just insert a direct link into this thread and save the bandwidth. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

For me I would like to see photos or new reports (including what some call trash reports) and absorb and challenge the reported facts before putting forth causal theories.

any other takers?





I am disgusted, people get sick. injured and lose thier lives, and thats what you come up with, have some respect!!

If airlines and manufacturer's can NOT afford to maintain their jets properly then they have NO right to be in business,

A bad week for the airline industry, to say the least, more poor people with tags on their toes!!!

Money, money, money!!!

RoyHudd
24th Aug 2008, 20:00
Tut Tut, spelling and grammar faulty Carbis. If you are going to level criticism of that nature yourself, better make sure you are in the clear.

Let he who is without sin,...etc

carbis22
24th Aug 2008, 20:04
sorry roy and whomever else,

please excuse my chemically brain damaged spelling and grammer,

think people get the jist of what I try to say......

wileydog3
24th Aug 2008, 20:07
BIG airport for that region. Runway more than 13,000ft long. Busy with all that military traffic.

google 43 02n 72 28E google earth.

The old airport has been apparently torn up. In southern part of the city near the VOR.

AlexGG
24th Aug 2008, 20:17
Latest reported
1. 20 survivors, of which 3 in critical condition
2. total 90 people on board (passengers + crew)
3. flight crew survived (no details on condition; no details on cabin crew)
4. the aircraft developed problems shortly after takeoff, attempted to return back to the airport, crashed short of the runway (about 2km short?)

various sources mention engine problems and/or pressurization problems

somebody also recalled that today is 4th anniversary of 24 August 2004 double aircraft bombing

wozzo
24th Aug 2008, 20:57
Kyrgyz prime minister Igor Cudinov said, according to RIA Novosti, that crew wanted to return because of a "cabin depressurisation" and crashed at 20:40 local time (10 minutes after takeoff).

RIA Novosti (Russian) (http://www.rian.ru/trend/Boeing_crash_Bishkek_24082008/)

Rainboe
24th Aug 2008, 21:16
Can you give more details of the double aircraft bombing please? I don't know about that.

20milesout
24th Aug 2008, 21:30
On August 24, 2004, two russian airliners were brought down by terrorist bombs, check the wiki for details:

Russian aircraft bombings of August 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga-AviaExpress_Flight_1303)

89 souls were killed

archae86
24th Aug 2008, 22:03
BIG airport for that region. Runway more than 13,000ft long. Busy with all that military traffic.

google 43 02n 72 28E google earth.
Not there, but appears to be at 43 03N 74 28E

Ular
24th Aug 2008, 22:20
-737 (http://kg.akipress.org/news/60729)

aerosexual77
24th Aug 2008, 22:28
Info I have that their were 90 onboard and 71 have died. This will be fresh on the heels of the Spanair disaster and im sure will not put the public at ease.


"Sixty-five people have died in a crash of a passenger plane in the Kyrgyzstan capital of Bishkek.
The Boeing 737-200, chartered by an Iranian company and bound for Tehran, crashed soon after take-off, a spokeswoman for Manas airport said.
'It took off and reported a technical problem and tried to return to the airport,' the spokeswoman said."

"Iran Aseman Airlines Flight 6875 from Bishkek (FRU), Kyrgyzstan to Tehran (THR), Iran was carried out by Itek Air.
The airplane reportedly departed about 20:30 and crashed shortly after takeoff. Unconfirmed reports indicate that the pilot had attempted to return to the airport for an emergency landing.
METAR weather reported indicate that there was a thunderstorm with associated rain passing over Bishkek from 16:30 to 20:00 local time. Over that period the wind shifted from 220 degrees to 100 degrees at 20:30. Wind was blowing at about 6 kts, with wind variable at 23 knots. The temperature had dropped from 31 to 27 degrees C.

The registration is said to have been EX-311, but this has not been confirmed yet by official reports"

FlyingWay
24th Aug 2008, 22:31
Aug 24, 2008 Latest Headlines...


Bishkek plane might have made emergency landing
BISHKEK. Aug 24 (Interfax) - Kyrgyz Emergency Minister Kamchibek
Tashiyev has confirmed the crash of the Bishkek airplane, which was
bound for Iran.
"The plane crashed five kilometers away from the Manas
International Airport. It was a Boeing 737 with 123 people on board,"
Tashiyev told Interfax.
"So far there is no exact information as to whether the plane was
owned" by a local or an Iranian airline company, he said.
Nor does the minister have any information about a possible number
of casualties at this stage.
All Kyrgyz emergency rescue teams and ambulance cars have been
called in to the plane crash site. The Kyrgyz emergency minister and
transport minister are due to arrive here shortly.
The plane is believed to have crashed not far from the Manas
Airport near the village of Dzhangi-Dzher.
The Manas Airport is located 30 kilometers away from Bishkek.
Earlier, an airport source told Interfax that the Boeing 737
passenger jet crashed during a takeoff not far from the Bishkek Manas
airport. According to early estimates, there are casualties.
The airplane is owned by Itek Air, a private airline company. It
was due to fly from Bishkek to Mashhad (Iran), the source said.
A spokesperson for the anti-terrorist coalition air base confirmed
the airport accident to Interfax and said that a team of rescue workers
has been sent to the crash site.
Meanwhile, the Manas Airport has not confirmed the air crash to the
Ekho Moskvy radio station.
"The airplane did not crash, it made an emergency landing. This
plane is owned by a Tehran airline company," an airport spokesperson
told the Ekho Moskvy radio.
There are "no casualties," the official said and refused to further
comment on the incident.
"Currently, airline company officials and all bosses are near the
plane, they are not giving us any information," the spokesperson said.

kk

Ular
24th Aug 2008, 22:35
The AKIpress news agency (Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan) published names and DOB of 22 survivors, 11 citizens of Kyrgyz republic, 11 citizens of Iran. They also reported of 65 dead.

Unofficial sources (local avia forum) told all crew are alive.

-737 (http://kg.akipress.org/news/60729)

AlexGG
24th Aug 2008, 22:51
Images - -737 (http://kg.akipress.org/news/60729)
Visible serial number "EX-009",
this plane- Itek Air EX-311 (Boeing 737) (Ex EX-009 HP1288CMP N318CM ) - Airfleets (http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b737-22088.htm)

jetnoise2007
24th Aug 2008, 22:56
Photos on the AKI Press site (above) show it to be EX-009 (c/n 22088 and the former ZK-NAS, N318CM and HP-1288CMP).

Cheers,
Jet.

archae86
25th Aug 2008, 00:16
from the AKI press site:
http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/14.jpg

seems to show some large forcible penetrations formed at some point in the incident. (and, no, I am not trying to imply what formed them, nor that they are any any way causal, but they seem unusual to me)

Currently url's like that shown numbered 1 through 14 all relate to this incident.

wes_wall
25th Aug 2008, 00:44
Granted, the photos are not all that good, however, from the photos shown at this site, there does not appear to have been a lot of fire.

lomapaseo
25th Aug 2008, 00:50
from the AKI press site:
http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/14.jpg

seems to show some large forcible penetrations formed at some point in the incident. (and, no, I am not trying to imply what formed them, nor that they are any any way causal, but they seem unusual to me)

Currently url's like that shown numbered 1 through 14 all relate to this incident.

Thanks for the link

I agree, unusual and significant. I don't see some of these pics as being post impact. In some of them there appears to be through holes in the wing structure. But I'll see what others say before I form a stronger opinion.

It would be interesting to see more photos of the general wing to tell if it was intact when it landed.

flynerd
25th Aug 2008, 01:14
Well I don't know...

CNN has this photo of the crashed AC.

But as it is reported down late Sunday morning, this evening photo still shows a lot of smoke coming from the wreckage.

Surely the fire would have been put out by dark.
At least the report says all crew survived.

Something does not add-up. Old photo perhaps?

http://i33.tinypic.com/2qmja6p.png

FlyNerd

pacplyer
25th Aug 2008, 01:31
the b737-200 "classic" or now refered to as 732, is a good, but old aircraft. I was type rated in it in the 80's.

Very bad post accident fire as evident by the skin burned off all of the tail section and other charring in other photos. Tail section intact sitting upright indicating probably not a real high-g impact. Click here to see the JT8d-9 or -15 engine? Somebody correct me on this:

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/16.jpg

Appears to be a cowless [deleted word "core"] engine left in above link photo. The mid bent structure are non-rotating inlet guide vanes. The bent compressor disc appears to me to have been rotating at the time of impact.

JMHO's.

Corrections from qualified mechanics?

pac

dicksorchard
25th Aug 2008, 01:57
August 24, 2008 According ot the Associated Press: Reports that 24 people survived, including seven members of a high school basketball team from Bishkek.

Kyrgyz Prime Minister Igor Chudinov told Reuters the flight carried passengers from Canada, China, Turkey, Iran and Kyrgyzstan, but provided no further details.

A Foreign Affairs spokesperson said in an e-mail that the Canadian embassy in Kazakhstan is aware of news reports and that consular officials are in contact with local officials to confirm if any Canadians were on the plane.
Earlier, Kyrgstani Interior Minister Maldomusa Kongatiyev told the Associated Press there were 83 passengers and seven crew members aboard when the plane went down about 10 kilometres from the airport. The jet crashed shortly after takeoff during an attempt to return to Manas International Airport, where it had left for a flight to Tehran. The crew of the Boeing 737 reported a technical problem about 10 minutes into the flight.

At least 14 of the 24 survivors were admitted to hospital and two were in critical condition, emergency officials said.

An airport official said the plane belonged to Itek Air, a Kyrgstani company, but was operated by Iran Aseman Airlines.

Itek Air has been barred from operating in European Union airspace because of failure to meet safety and aviation standards, according to a list published by the EU on July 24. Emergency Situations Ministry spokesman Ramis Satybekov said the crash was likely caused by either an engine failure or a malfunction in the plane's flight control system. However, Daudova said the cause of the crash was decompression of the jet.
Source: Associated Press

lomapaseo
25th Aug 2008, 02:56
Appears to be only a core engine left in above link photo. The mid bent structure are non-rotating stator vanes/inlet guide vanes. The bent compressor disc appears to me to have been rotating at the time of impact.

JMHO's.

Corrections from qualified mechanics?


You are looking at the front end fan section of the engine and the rest of the engine structure is behind it.

Thanx for the pics ... please post more of the wing

pacplyer
25th Aug 2008, 04:37
Loma,

If I can figure out how, :} Here goes nothing:

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/5.jpg


Credit goes to Ular, AlexGG and others for the pic source. Thanks Guys! :ok:


.

pacplyer
25th Aug 2008, 04:47
More:

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/4.jpg

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/7.jpg

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/9.jpg

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/11.jpg

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/12.jpg

pacplyer
25th Aug 2008, 04:52
Loma,

When we looked into the intake, we used to call it the compressor because the first six stages including two fan sections gave you low pressure compressor N1. But fan is also correct. The term "core" I used was wrong.

low pressure compressor (LPC) which consists of the first six stages (i.e. six pairs of rotating and stator blades, including the first two stages which are for the bypass turbofan)

Pratt & Whitney JT8D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_JT8D)

Here's the only schematic I could find (kindly disregard the cascade reverser at the back as it is a 727/dc9 animal.)

http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/engines/jt8dsh.jpghttp://www.airwar.ru/image/i/engines/jt8dsh.jpg

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/16.jpg

Historical note: The cascade reverser came after the blocker door (clamshell) type and was developed by a mechanic at Western Air Lines.

lomapaseo
25th Aug 2008, 13:14
Loma,

If I can figure out how, Here goes nothing:

http://static.akipress.org/photo/aviacatastrofa/5.jpg

Credit goes to Ular, AlexGG and others for the pic source. Thanks Guys!



Pacplyer

Thanks for posting the pics. But you missed one very interesting pic of the what looks like the lower wing surface (subject to correction?) with additional damage.

To me these are not yet conclusive so that's why I am so interested in additional photos.:ok:

Evening Star
25th Aug 2008, 13:19
Cautious about quoting any media source, but Russian TV news are showing a video graphic that suggests a flat, wings level landing with only post impact fire.

er340790
25th Aug 2008, 13:21
Prime Minister Chudinov said the plane had been made in 1979 and was "in good condition and had an extended warranty".

Hmmmmmm......right.

Bridge Builder
26th Aug 2008, 17:40
Sad but true Green Granite. The media has hardly touched this. Yet an Ryanair makes a unsched landing in France and everyone goes nuts. European lives are obviously worth more than eastern Europeans according to our media. Very sad :uhoh:

RoyHudd
26th Aug 2008, 18:55
That's the British media, not European. Our country sadly has a more biased and hysterical reporting than any other. I guess it is due to the nature of the target audience.

But back on thread, this accident has been overlooked by most of the "interested" SLF types who most enthusiastically posted on the Madrid accident. It may be just as significant in terms of lessons for future air safety, but is not being recognized as such.

vanHorck
26th Aug 2008, 20:55
the pics show much more detail when enhanced, but i dont seem to be able to attach them. how do i do that?

Mareklug
27th Aug 2008, 00:46
Initially the destination was widely misreported as Mashhad in NW Iran, not Tehran. But now there is a discrepancy as to which airport in Tehran. Was it the new international airport, IKA/OIIE, or the old one closer to the city center, the Iran Aseman Airlines technical base at THR/OIII? This was supposedly a charter flight (another unconfirmed information). The Aviation Safety Network entry reports the former as destination, but a Farsi-language dispatch by IRNA allegedly reports the later.

The ASN also continues to list two flight numbers: the accident entry in its data base has the (incorrect?) flight number, 6875, in the body of its text write-up, but (correctly?) lists 6895 in the summary above it.

Please confirm these details one way or the other if you can. Thanks.

Asdrius
27th Aug 2008, 07:42
Please confirm these details one way or the other if you can. Thanks.

According to oficial Itek Air website it was Iran Aseman Airlines flight operated by Itek Air. Flight number IRC 6895. Destination Teheran.


Just to add some info:

The plane took off 20.30, and contact lost with the plane at 20.42.

Looking at the passenger/survivors list: there were 90 people on board: 83 passengers, 6 crew, 1 Iran Aseman airlines representative.
21 people survived, 5 of the 6 crew survived (only the captain is not among survivors).

Here are some photos of the accident site next day:

http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=539402

http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=538773

http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=538762

http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=538771

More similar clickable photos can be found in this local forum:
"" - Diesel Forum (http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?showtopic=1194765&st=460)

JonnyT1978
27th Aug 2008, 09:40
Sad but true Green Granite. The media has hardly touched this. Yet an Ryanair makes a unsched landing in France and everyone goes nuts. European lives are obviously worth more than eastern Europeans according to our media. Very sad http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/worry.gif

I think it is more a case of incidents in the 'modern'/'western' world are viewed as being far more shocking due to our well established safety & CRM culture, as well as the fact that flying has very much become part of everyday life. When an incident occurs, it (albeit temporarily) breaks the notion in most people's minds that flying is 100% infallible, that there are actually (minor) risks associated with it, and it isn't just like a 'bus' to the Ballearics.

On the other hand, events in other areas - such as the former Soviet Republics -where there is not such a prevalent safety culture, rightly or wrongly these events seem to get far less attention & treated almost as a footnote on the news (another plane crash in a land far away of which we know nothing) (with apologies to Chamberlain). That is not to say that the lives of those on board are worth any less, it is just that it is regarded as a more regular occurence due to poor(er) safety.

I for one would be much more satisfied when every soul on board every aircraft is regarded as being precious :)

equal
27th Aug 2008, 10:13
intentional or luck on behalf of the crew? it went down in a relatively flat area free of obstacles, it could have been alot worse.

Kyrgyz prime minister Igor Cudinov said, according to RIA Novosti, that crew wanted to return because of a "cabin depressurisation" and crashed at 20:40 local time (10 minutes after takeoff).

how pressurised would the aircraft be after 10mins?

Mareklug
27th Aug 2008, 11:39
Destination Teheran.Which airport? Is there an English-language source confirming OIIE/IKA?

Is ANS reporting OIII/THR bogus information?

TeachMe
27th Aug 2008, 12:41
Although O/T, I would go with the idea that accidents are more expected in some regions and thus less newsworthy. It is not about the value of life, but about the expectations of a problem. We expect car accidents, thus we dont report on them unless something was unusual about it that we would not expect.

As SLF, there are only about 20-30 airlines I will trust my butt in as I have a higher expectations that those others will crash. If one of those 20-30 crashes, I take notice, if one of the other 200+ crash it does not interest me as much because it is less relevant.

I would fly SpanAir so it is more shocking than this one in which I would have never flew on. Perhaps this is also why cargo crashes are less 'interesting' to the media???

skywreck
27th Aug 2008, 13:40
MOSCOW, August 25 - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Monday sent a message of condolences to Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev in connection with the crash of a Boeing-737 plane at Bishkeks international airport Manas, the Kremlin press service reported.

The Boeing, belonging to Kyrgyz Itek Air carrier, was on a fight from Bishkek to Tehran. It took off from Manas at 18:30, Moscow time, on Sunday and several minutes later requested an emergency landing. However, it failed to reach the airport and went down five kilometres away from the landing strip, near the settlement of Dzhany-Dzher.

According to official reports, there were 90 passengers and crew on board the plane. Sixty-five bodies have been found at the site of the crash. The Kyrgyz government has set up a commission to look into the plane crash.

The jet was on its way to Tehran, the Iranian capital. Among those on board were 44 Iranian Scientists and Engineers

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Accident with 44 Iranian Scientists & Engineers on board? - Maybe same sort of
"accident" that a Cuban airliner had over Barbados some years ago. Today this
news also:

Plane Crash Kills 115 In Iran, Plane Loaded With Journalists Slams Into 10-Story Apartment Building - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/06/world/main1099216.shtml)

My, my, the Iranians seem to be having a lot of air accidents recently.

lomapaseo
27th Aug 2008, 13:59
Asdrius

Looking at the passenger/survivors list: there were 90 people on board: 83 passengers, 6 crew, 1 Iran Aseman airlines representative.
21 people survived, 5 of the 6 crew survived (only the captain is not among survivors).

Here are some photos of the accident site next day:

Diesel Forum ( Invision Power Board) (http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act...post&id=539402)

Diesel Forum ( Invision Power Board) (http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act...post&id=538773)

Diesel Forum ( Invision Power Board) (http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act...post&id=538762)

Diesel Forum ( Invision Power Board) (http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?act...post&id=538771)

More similar clickable photos can be found in this local forum:
"" - Diesel Forum


Many thanks for the links.

The last link shows 1500 posts so a lot of discussion ala Pprune is taking place. I can't read the language so I wonder if those that can can give me a clue or two

What did the surviving crew indicate was the technical problem causing them to make a forced landing?

What have ground witnesses stated relative to the approach and landing?

was the aircraft visibly afire on approach?

How quickly did the fire spread on landing?

What have on board surviving passengers stated relative to the reported in-flight technical problems causing the forced landing?

lomapaseo
27th Aug 2008, 14:30
Just to save a few from clicking multiple web sites for pics I have collected a good set here:

http://fromtheflightdeck.com/MEL/ItekB737-200-01.jpg

http://fromtheflightdeck.com/MEL/ItekB737-200-02.jpg

The files are too big to post but one can clip out any interesting photo to discuss.

again thanks for all the previous links

Asdrius
27th Aug 2008, 15:34
lomapaseo


A very long discussion indeed. But it is a general forum not oriented to aviation, most of the posts are just emotional, very difficult among so many posts to find hard information.
But after brief search I found several survivors reports. Here I post internet translations of them, which I think are easy to understand:


One of the victims in the plane crash of Boeing in the environs of Bishkek - the citizen of Iran, the businessman Of [komponikhi] Of [nokhsen] - today, on August 26, 2008, in the interview for the agency Of [aKI]press described some details of incident. According to him, the engines of aircraft ceased to work even in air. It became quiet. It does not remember, as they landed. Aircraft fell in the field. Fire began as soon as it fell aircraft, there was much fire and smoke. It sat by the latter, in the tail of the aircraft, where emergency exit is located. However, in the salon it was because very hot, it is dark and it is oppressive, it is not possible to open door was simply. After several attempts, door by foot they opened several men. In some passengers the belt was not undone, first it did wedge, then from the nerves; however, there was no time to help others. In 3-4 minutes after the people jumped out from the aircraft, occurred explosion. Those, who remained in the aircraft it perished. The citizen of Iran [Komponikhin] Of [nokhsen], which received as a result plane crashes the hurt wound of the frontal region of head, was serviced dispensary. Today he departed into Iran.

Original (Russian language) "" - Diesel Forum (http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?showtopic=1194765&st=1400&p=6860547&#entry6860547)


Another dramatic report praising heroic actions of the captain and school teacher, saving the passengers from burning plane:


Those survived now pray for the health of their angel- rescuers. Only, who not [zapanikoval] in to smoke and fire- aircraft commander Yuri [Goncharov] the director of the secondary school of № of 29 [Bakhtiyar] Kadirov, who conveyed young basketball players to the match in Teheran. Men by some miracle could knock out the front door of the liner (it less than all it wedged with the rough landing) and they began to take out passengers of the burning aircraft. Those, who were able to walk, they accompanied to the door, that lay without the consciousness carried on the hands. Commander saved passengers, until he falls without the consciousness, after poisoning by carbon monoxide. [Bakhtiyar] Kadirov continued to take out his pupils, even when on it decayed clothing

Original (Russian language):KP.RU // : 67 (http://chel.kp.ru/daily/24151.5/367970/)

lomapaseo
27th Aug 2008, 16:34
Asdrius

Again thanks for the translations above

The landing, rollout, fire explosions and passenger comments at that phase I understand and have seen before.

The inflight comments are of the most interest as well as on-the-ground witnesses of the planes approach.

Engine failures are typically described by witnesses as preceeded by fire or bangs. Silence alone, implies fuel problems or commanded thrust reductions.

Asdrius
12th Sep 2008, 14:21
Russian interstate aviation comittee recently released some oficial preliminary information for this accident. It can be found in russian here: Boeing-737 (http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2008/boeing-737.html)

Here is my brief translation:

CVR contained recordings of previous flight Moscow-Bishkek and no recordings of accident flight. But FDR contained information of whole accident flight from engine start-up to the last 3-4 sec. before impact. Those last seconds suffered fire damage and work still continues on analysis.
Flight took of 20.30 from rw 08, with take off weight - 47000kg. According to SID DW-1 crew made left turn to course 240 and continued climb. 20:36:40 at an altitude of 3000 meters and 37 km from the airport, because of pressurization problems, crew decided to return.
ATC cleared them for visual approach rw08. Weather conditions at the time were: Visibility over 10km, Clouds 6/8 at 5000m, wind 130 at 3 m/s, Temp: +26C, QNH 1012.
According to preliminary info from FDR, by making right turn airplane approached landing course descending to an altitude of 1040 m.QNH (400 m. AGL). 20:41:40 crew reported visual contact of runway. 20:42:30, 12km from the runway, the plane reached height of 400m and entered the landing course, speed was 250kts IAS. Maintaning 400m height crew started decreasing speed. 20:43:25 5km from runway the speed was 185kts and the plane being not configured for landing, the crew asked ATC for left orbit. After ATC clearance crew made a left turn with 30 degree bank and speed continued to decrease to 155kts. After a minute the plane was straightened at course reverse to landing direction and at very low altitude. The plane contacted ground 7,5km from rw08, with gear down and flaps 15. According to preliminary analysis of FDR and accident site there are no signs of technical malfunctions in airplane engines and systems(except pressurization).

safetypee
12th Sep 2008, 18:33
Any info whether this aircraft was fitted with EGPWS?

planes49
12th Sep 2008, 23:05
Have operated several times into Bishkek, it looks like the first approach was rushed and correctly thrown away (looks like engines operating ok), and then a badly executed second approach. Whilst there are mountains all round, terrain shouldn't have been a factor on their second approach.

lomapaseo
13th Sep 2008, 03:27
Any info whether this aircraft was fitted with EGPWS?

what bearing does this have in an approach crash into flat terrain?

safetypee
13th Sep 2008, 13:41
lomapaseo EGPWS fitted to the aircraft? what bearing does this have in an approach crash into flat terrain?

Could be everything. EGPWS provides a terrain clearance floor where the alert height is proportional to the distance from an airport/runway, thus even over flat terrain a low altitude alert could be given; similarly a bank angle alert if so configured. The latest updates to the system also takes care of airfields on hill tops, where CFIT accidents have occurred below the airfield altitude.

There have been several CFIT incidents during night visual approaches where the risks of a black hole illusion or a turning disorientation are high (1).

FSF ALAR Tool Kit - In almost 40 percent of the landing (descent) phase and landing (approach) phase accidents, significant terrain features were absent in the vicinity of the airfield. This indicates that CFIT accidents do occur in areas without high terrain (2).

Ref:
1. Celebrating TAWS Saves: But lessons still to be learnt. (www.icao.int/fsix/_Library%5CTAWS%20Saves%20plus%20add.pdf)
2. FSF ALAR Tool Kit report Killers in Aviation. (www.flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_nov-feb99.pdf)

hamil
13th Sep 2008, 14:00
EGPWS fitted on a B737-200? I really never heard about it ...
But, anyway, flying over flat terrain in a possible landing configuration for a seven-three (gear down and f15) is worthless in terms of terrain alert.

threemiles
16th Sep 2008, 21:34
From MAK website


The technical commission of intergovermental aviation committee (commission), assigned, according to the agreement with the ministry of transport and communications Of [kyrgyzskoy] republic, for the investigation of aviation incident with the aircraft B -737-200 EX-009 of airline [Itek] Eyre, informs:

On September 12, 2008 commission completed the field stage of the investigation of the crash of the aircraft B -737-200 EX-009 of airline [Itek] Eyre, by occured 24.08.2008 in the airport zone Of [manas].

According to the results of the works on the spot of aviation incident and preliminary interpretation of the parameters of flight, at the moment the collisions with the earth of chassis of aircraft were released, flaps were deflected to 15 degrees.

Failures of power plant and systems of aircraft (besides hermetic sealing system) it is not revealed.

Destruction there was no aircraft in air.

At present commission performs the work on the detailed and detailed study of all data, registered by onboard parametric registrar in the final phase of flight. Work according to study and analysis of entire technical flight and operational documentation is conducted. Completes the analysis of the basic normative documents, which are concerned the installation of barometric pressure with the execution of flights and the air traffic control.

Is conducted the analysis of the work of the signaling system of closing doors and hatchways, and also work of conditioning system for the purpose of the determination of the probable reasons for [negermetizatsii] of aircraft after takeoff.

Training flying and cabin crews and its possible connection with appearance and development of special situation on board the aircraft is investigated and is analyzed.

In accordance with the international legislation in the work of commission participate the specialists of civil aviation Of [kyrgyzskoy] republic, and also NTSB of the USA (national bureau of investigation in the field of transportation) as producing country and developer of aircraft, and aviation administration of Iran (as the observer). To aviation authorities for the enterprises of civil aviation are directed operational recommendations regarding averting of similar aviation incidents. Commission will complete its work after the fulfillment of all necessary measures, provided for the investigation of this aviation incident. Commission in accordance with standards and recommendations of the International Civil Aviation Organization will carry out the complete analysis of all circumstances and factors, on the basis which will be established the reasons for aviation incident and recommendations regarding averting of similar aviation incidents are developed. In accordance with the international legislation the investigation, conducted by commission, does not assume the establishment of the portion whose- or of fault or responsibility and is conducted for the sole purpose of averting aviation incidents. The investigation of aviation incident is conducted in the contact with the organs Of [kyrgyzskoy] republic, which conduct preliminary consequence.

alf5071h
21st Sep 2008, 00:48
hamil flying over flat terrain in a possible landing configuration for a seven-three (gear down and f15) is worthless in terms of terrain alert. (#70)

This would be true with the old GPWS, but the Enhanced version (EGPWS) provides an alert at any time if the aircraft is not landing on a runway irrespective of configuration.
There is an ICAO requirement for all jet (turbine) aircraft to have EGPWS or an equivalent system (TAWS) fitted.

lomapaseo
21st Sep 2008, 13:08
There is an ICAO requirement for all jet (turbine) aircraft to have EGPWS or an equivalent system (TAWS) fitted.

Are you sure that it's not just a recommendation? I believe that only the country authorities can issue requirements

alf5071h
22nd Sep 2008, 02:49
Requirement / Recommendation: Depends how you interpret shall.
ICAO Annex 6 (http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Annex%20VI%20-%20Operation%20of%20Aircraft/Part%20I%20-%20International%20Commercial%20Air%20Transport%20-%20Aeroplanes,%208th%20ed/Part%20I%20-%20International%20Commercial%20Air%20Transport%20-%20Aeroplanes,%208th%20ed.pdf) requires aircraft to have GPWS. Paras 1.15.1 onwards, state that aircraft shall be equipped with a forward looking terrain avoidance system.
The only recommendation appears to refer to turbine-engined aeroplanes of a maximum certificated take-off mass of 5 700 kg or less and authorized to carry more than five but not more than nine passengers (6.15.5)

According to the ICAO supplement, (http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Annex%20VI%20-%20Operation%20of%20Aircraft/Part%20I%20-%20International%20Commercial%20Air%20Transport%20-%20Aeroplanes,%208th%20ed/an06_P1_8ed_sup_sep02.pdf) Kyrgystan has not provided any information on national differences vs ICAO Annex 6, which neither confirms or denies any national requirement to fit EGPWS.

QF2
22nd Sep 2008, 03:04
"Are you sure that it's not just a recommendation? I believe that only the country authorities can issue requirements"

Yes that's correct, it needs to be made law in the country for it to be legally binding, and ICAO obviously doesn't make laws for countries. In saying that, many countries around the world will make laws that comply with ICAO. These are usually more stringent than the ICAO recommendations or whatever you want to call them, because these laws go into much more detail and have more requirements than ICAO's recommendations.

lomapaseo
22nd Sep 2008, 04:01
Thanks alf5071h and QF2

It would appear than that the country is not in compliance with ICAO standards in that regard and in that case may be labeled as such by other countries regulatory agencies implying some sort of resrtictions may be imposed outside the country borders.

I guess it's up to each individual country to decide on any such restrictions since there really is no way of forcing compliance inside a country's borders.

wozzo
23rd Jun 2009, 02:16
A final report came out on May, 10 2009. The main points are (summarized from Russian):

Aircraft returned because of an unsealed cabin (front door on the left probably not sealed).
Main reason for crash: aircraft flew below the minimum height for visual approach landing at night and subsequently crashed and burned on the ground
Crew didn't fulfill regulation for visual approach by losing visual contact to runway or orientation "markers", and didn't perform according to regulations after loss of visual contact
First approach had to be aborted because aircraft didn't descend fast enough
During second approach control over height was lostComplete report (in Russian):
http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2008/boeing737/report_boeing-737-200_EX-009.pdf
MAK Website (Russian):
Boeing-737 (http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2008/boeing-737.html)