IAA ATC Positions

[pm210668]

Months of debate.....

Positions advertised.....

CVs submitted.....

Competition closed.....

And....

Nothing

[itsnotme]

Did you receive any correspondance from IAA HQ?
If so, from who?

[divingduck]

Are you guys talkihng about direct entry experienced controller positions or the ab initio ones?
Experienced postitions still available, ab initio's...there were 32 of them started in March this year.

[Bombs Away]

Considering the IAA only advertised in one edition of Flight International, I'm suprised you saw it. It's seems like they are not too interested in looking for direct entries and only put the ad up to placate the staff. A crock of s*** if ever you saw one.

[sevenstar]

Well i think it was in more than one edition of flight international-two editions maybe:uhoh:

It does appear that they were not too interested in spreading the word about 14-16 full time permanent and pensionable jobs hiring guys who are pre-trained and qualified. Maybe the IAA want to spend the extra cash on students who 1)can be moulded as the want! 2) pay them less and with much worse pension entitlements and then start looking to screw the rest of staff after that.

But over 50 CV's were received which is encouraging. If you haven't received any confirmation of your application pick up the phone and start asking questions-after all the IAA does stuff things up every now and again!!!!.
And anyone who is flying thru Iaa airspace these days is quite likely to hear canadian,aussie and ruskie accents on the freq's.

Good to hear.

[IRLATCO]

Over 100,yes 100 applications received for the direct entry positions.9 contract controllers have been accepted,with the applications for the permanent positions currently being accessed.32 ab initio trainees are currently in training.There are also numerous retirees that have been re-hired as instructors,thus releasing operational ATCO's back into the live enviornment.:ok:

[SINGAPURCANAC]

A few days ago Ireland said NO to Lisbon.

If we could agree that all political issues are just money matters than you could read it as: As long as we have received money from others, EU was ok,now when we should give money to others than NO!:E

IAA also offers competitive package. Work till die. NO holidays,NO days off,NO rest....:}

ATCOs are NOt Polish plumbers. But you will treat them as such. :ugh:

that is the reason why I say NO to Dublin,but
YES to Lisbon. :D

[divingduck]

What exactly are you on?
Have you been taking the blue pills again?

[SINGAPURCANAC]

@divingduck,
Nothing especially, Just my thoughts why IAA could be wrong option in life. For qualified atcos,of course. Some other places seems to be better. Sorry if my post was confused. I had no such intention.

[Track Coastal]

SINGAPURCANAC
If you communicate orally as you write, you'd fail the ICAO English requirements for most positions. Try the red pills.

[irishatco]

Just to put some perspective on IRLATCOs views, Maybe(only maybe)9 contract ATCOs have been accepted - source? but currently, there are only 4 contract controllers being trained in Shannon, 2 on OJT the other 2 still doing theory. I dont know about Dublin, but i would be very surprised if there were 5 training there now.

35 Cadets have just finished their basic theory. The first check outs in the live environment will be late Summer 2009, at the earliest.

The IAA seem to be dragging their heels on the permanent ATCO positions. Maybe it's something to do with the aviation downturn. Maybe they're stalling for time.Maybe they're hedging on not having to recruit 20 odd controllers on permanent contracts, and only expose themselves to 3 year deals only. Maybe i'm being cynical. Maybe i've worked for them long enough to know how they operate.
In any case, the staffing situation is not much better than before. I agree that re-hiring the retirees has helped. But the Cadets are now being split into groups of 6, meaning more instructors needed, so in nett terms there are still Operational Atcos being sent to the Training School to instruct. Tomorrow (June 16) will see at least 5 extra controllers from Operations taken off the roster, starting in the school.
I feel that all that has happened is that we are currently chronically understaffed, as opposed to having been terminally understaffed 3 months ago.
The overtime scheme has been undersubscribed - quelle surprise!
So the requirement for Staff asap is still there. Why is it taking so long?

Maybe I'm missing something, maybe i am cynical, maybe i'm right! hope not!

[SINGAPURCANAC]

@TC
If I had ever known English ,I would have never been an ATCO!:E

But here,English is not point . It was more about general conditions,society, company and locals as well.

[Yahweh]

As far as I am aware there are no contract or direct entries in Dublin at the moment and no indication of when they are coming. That plus the fact that a lot of people are showing interest in postions overseas would suggest that staffing is gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.

IAA, where the f*** are those extra controllers that you promised.

[bigsis]

Gathered with the ATCs that Airservices promised

[badback]

Rumours that 3 contract staff will start training in Dublin in July.

Believe when we see.

[IRLATCO]

The figures I have at hand are 7 contract controllers for Shannon and 2 for Dublin.4 are training at the moment in Shannon and the rest will start within 8 weeks.These numbers may increase,especially for Shannon,as the months progress.To the best of my knowledge Dublin are adequately staffed now.Perhaps one of our colleagues from Dublin could try and debate that one for us.:confused:

[Red_All_Over]

IRLATCO, stick to what you know. Dublin has been short staffed for years. We have less staff now than we had during the dispute. Four on maternity leave, three long term off the roster due illness, one ATCO doing roster even though he has a rating, a new roster which is being abused by management (and staff) already. Project work being farmed out to private companies because management cant release staff from the roster. Promised new staff nowhere to be seen. As usual Shannon gets everything first. Better Managers obviously. People asked to do overtime, even though they have not volunteered to do it. Covering Data Assistants sick leave. Station Managers who have no direction on how to work the overtime scheme. Dublin is bottom of the pile in the IAA even though it is the public face of the IAA. I could keep going but enough said for the moment. Calming down now.

[IRLATCO]

Exactly the answer that I was endeavoring to provoke.So you do indeed have the exact same problems as your Shannon colleagues.Well then lets debate them together and let those that frequent this forum know exactly how our beloved IAA have continued to give it to us up the shi:mad::mad:er.Our endeavors at the start of the year appear to have been fruitless.Its time yet again to rally the troops.Let the games begin.............

[itsnotme]

Shannon controllers feel that Dublin controllers have better conditions. How long are Dublin's fatigue breaks ? for example. I think both stations are finding it tough. IAA dragging their heels in their half hearted efforts to recruit more staff. EB putting pressure on local management to make do with what few resources they have and hopefully we'll all muddle our way through another hectic summer keeping the profit margin's up.. We definitely need to be making more noise about the current situation, whether you work in Dublin Shannon or Funderland!!!

[badback]

Shannon controllers feel that Dublin controllers have better conditions. How long are Dublin's fatigue breaks ? for example.

30mins, just like yours?

Of course, while Dublin staff were establishing the principle of fatigue breaks some of your colleagues were happy to sacrifice them in favour of Off Time. Can't have your cake and eat it...

Dublin is short staffed and under resourced, ask any of the staff transferred to Dublin with SNN approach how long they will wait for a second rating...in some cases SCPs in DUB have waited six years to obtain second ratings while former classmates in the school who remained in SNN obtained three.

One of the arguments advanced by HQ re. staffing in DUB is that with the transfer of 14 staff to man SNN approach we have enough staff in the station, yet nobody seems willing to provide the resources to train those staff in DUB positions. Meanwhile one DUB tower controller routinely provides leave in CRK and a number of the SNN approach contingent have to travel to CRK to remain valid in CRK approach. :ugh:

[IRLATCO]

Make noise boys and girls.We all know what can happen when we do.Mandate our executive to both keep us all informed and ensure management adhere to the agreement.Failure to do so should incur the wrath of us all.We have all taken too much s:mad:it for far too long,in ALL stations.We are not schoolkids nor do we act like schoolkids and accordingly should not be treated like juveniles.What we are is a group of professionals being managed by a group of amateurs.This forum has paid handsome dividends in the past.How many of us are still unable to access PPRUNE at work?

[itsnotme]

30mins, just like yours?

Not Yet.
some of your colleagues were happy to sacrifice them in favour of Off Time
True. '' SOME'' a minority of staff still can't see the light. Fatigue breaks are far more important than off time. Not that there is much of that available.
nobody seems willing to provide the resources to train those staff in DUB positions
Under utilisation of staff is a massive problem within the IAA both in Shannon and Dublin. Many controllers are looking for extra ratings and are constantly being knocked back while the IAA cherry pick who goes forward for what course and who get's chosen for expert duties. There is no make , shape or sense to the process in which ratings and duties are handed out. Coupled with that the IAA still don't know WTF to do with LOw Level. The plan changes weekly.
Mis management and lack of resources is a significant contributing factor to the low morale at both stations. Basically staff are saying '' if you don't want to make use of me, Your loss''.

[Yahweh]

IRLATCO,

I'm a little confused as to what we have been doing so far :confused:. We put up a fuss, we got the union to represent us. And what exactly did it get us. A few extra bob that we did'nt want.

A few extra controllers that are conspicuous by their absence. And the knowledge that if the union and management throw some green our way we'll back down. As far as I can see the last few months were a complete waste of time. Management still have'nt changed.

We all know that they will never take our threats seriously, after all we backed down over the strike issue once we saw the cash.

Let's face it, we got treated like crap, and we're still getting treated like crap. So forgive me if I don't share your optimistic outlook but I for one have lost all faith in the union's ability to handle this.

Good luck to you all but personally I don't give a s:mad: anymore.

[itsnotme]

A few extra controllers that are conspicuous by their absence
Questions need to be asked about the IAA's handling of its direct recruitment campaign.
As far as I can see the last few months were a complete waste of time. Management still have'nt changed.

I would agree with this comment to a degree because management have reneged on and mis-interpreted agreements.
[. Management still haven't changed but the controllers attitudes have. Dublin controllers initiative in the last dispute was the catalyst for the galvanisation of all IAA controllers.
Let's face it, we got treated like crap, and we're still getting treated like crap. So forgive me if I don't share your optimistic outlook but I for one have lost all faith in the union's ability to handle this.

I share in your disappointment bro but if we let the negativity creep in we're all fooked.The easiest thing to do is blame the union but would we swap seats with them? No chance! One thing we do have is the power to change our representatives. I think they were conned though . We were all sold another IAA puppy.
I don't give a s:mad: anymore
you and the rest of us.
Many lessons were learned from the last dispute. It was a real eye opener for all controllers to witness the desperate measures used by the IAA to F:mad:ck their staff over!

[IRLATCO]

What are the numbers like now in Dublin?
Shannon is in dire straits again.The roster is consistently running understaffed and there appears to be no effort whatsoever to implement any form of flow control.We would appear to be back where we were several months ago,yet no one seems to be batting an eyelid.What the hell are we doing?:ugh:

[left bass]

Minus one since the Spring Riots.

Still, on the bright side, at least the radar shouldn't crash for another four thousand years. We will probably be fully staffed by then.

[Healeypilot]

You guys sure don't make it sound very appealing to work for IAA. I applied but I am having second thoughts. You won't get any more staff if you keep scaring people off.

[itsnotme]

Healey, any prospective employee would be very grateful for the insight into what is actually going on here. You have got to weigh up the pros and cons. Any controller who is making his decision , after one posting, is very strange. If after ,alot of thought and investigation, you decide it's best not to come here, that's fine. You need to talk to the controllers on the ground before making a decision. Any controller ,with an ounce of common sense ,would have found a contact within the IAA inc direct entries already working here and spoken, at length, with them. , Elaborate , what have you heard about the IAA? I will verify if you are right or wrong as will my colleagues. Don't bother sending me a pm . Get it out into the open . Let me know what you thought of the recruitment campaign and how your application has been dealt with.. You claim to be a prospective employee , yet you only have one posting. You don't actually smell like management.
You stink like management!

[Healeypilot]

Management, Jeez why not call me a leper while your at it!! I do have a contact in Shannon and his reports seem fine. As to how my application is/has been dealt with, I have heard basically nothing other than they are shortlisting and we will hear in due course. Not exactly rushing things. It has been over a month since applications closed. I know of others here who have also heard nothing. Meantime DFS seem more interested in my services.......

[itsnotme]

Meantime DFS seem more interested in my services.......
In case anyone is in any doubt. Most, if not all ,IAA managers watch this forum. Come on lads , it's becoming more and more apparent that you couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

[divingduck]

Hey Verci,
It is indeed greener, but haven't had the chance to go salmon or trout fishing yet!
But a good craic it is!!

[galliwalli]

I have recently applied for the direct entry position of area radar control. Am still waiting to hear from IAA.
Could any of you please tell me where I could expect to be deployed, and secondly, what type of salary could I expect to be paid if I bring eight years of area radar control experience. Any outline of other benefits would also be appreciated.

Thanks!!

[nibog]

Any applicants out there, check your email inboxes.

[Healeypilot]

Inbox checked. Empty. Now what?

[beamwidth]

The current policy is pay commensurate with experience. Every year of experience equates to a corresponding point on the pay scale. We have 18 points on the scale. 8 years is point 8 on scale which is about €80k not including public holidays ( if worked ). We're nearing the end of pay negotiations. I'll pm more accurate info if i can find it.
Area radar = Shannon
App = Dublin.
Other benefits mmmmmmmmmmmm, you get to work in Ireland.

Despite everything posted here and on other threads, we're nice people to work with - mostly!

[itsnotme]

you get to work with us
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~warden/craggy/cast1.jpg

you get to live here
YouTube - Discover Ireland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htyHUX7Wg9U)

but be patient
YouTube - Guinness Perfect Pour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEEbE3vbGw8)

[badback]

Area radar = Shannon
App = Dublin.

I wouldn't be so certain.

We have 17 people rated for Shannon APP in Dublin [1 position]
I'd say 50+ people rated for Dublin APP [usually 1 position, 2 with a holding controller]
In a sectorised environment we need 5 AREA ratings in position.

The one thing we don't need is APP!

Last I heard there will be an AREA rating course for some direct entries in Dublin, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the contract staff are TWR.

Current AREA shortages are being covered by call-ins.

[The Jolly Roger]

Was I dreaming about some back pay due to us!!! Ya see, I'm in a bit of a rush to get it!!!!

[itsnotme]

think we all have it spent already

[The Jolly Roger]

I'd never do such a thing...............!!!!:=:=

[itsnotme]

hey jolly,
gonna miss us won't ya ,huh?
won't survive without us will ya,huh?
we made you .you're nothing without us.!
btw did you check the bank? got a few extra spondooligs so i did hey!
maybe it's my severance

[andymerlot]

IAA seems to have finally got around to responding to their applications and I am expecting a call from them shortly and then an interview.

I would like to get in touch with someone working at Shannon, so I can get a better idea of how things are at Shannon centre. I need to know if they treat people better or worse than Airservices Australia (badly).

Also, can anyone give me a description of Shannon town, I can't seem to find much information anywhere. Do ATCs live in Shannnon town, or do they choose to live in other nearby towns?

[ock1f]

Apparently we are much better and nicer than air services oZ! Way way better.

Generally we are left to do our own thing by which i mean you go in,do the work and go home. The nitty gritty of day to day life is left to each team and watch manager on the day and broadly speaking it works ok.

Every now and again decisions or lack of , made outside the ops rooms and towers impact on how we do our job and the service and level of service we provide or can provide. Hence the wee bit of discussion between ourselves and those we entrust and trust to run the company well.:ouch:

Things are improving on that front just very very slowly but that will pick up because of all the publicity here (again). Seems its the way we do business now but who cares as long as it works.

To anyone thinking of joining- go for it. Do your homework,dont take any BS in negiotiations and it should all work out well for you.

Shannon,yes you can stay there,hotels,B&B rental houses but nearly all stay in limerick,ennis or out in the countryside somewhere.

Jollyroger good luck overseas....looks like your leaving with a few extra quid in your pocket. Guess you will be able to afford that bucket and spade to play with all that sand after all :ok:

Yours as always
Ock1f

[OCEAN WUN ZERO]

So are we saying that there are only actually jobs in ADI and AREA. MY APS is no good.
:)

[The Jolly Roger]

Itsnotme...That was your severence!!!! aint nothin extra in my post office account today i'm afraid....call ins spoil my time off!!!

Ock1f.....i'll just go ahead and buy a digger altogether...anyways, whats a acre of desert worth these days??:confused:

[ock1f]

One with pedals? :):):)

Dig deep enough and you might be lucky and strike black gold!

[54north15west]

Most atcos live outside Shannon...ennis is very popular and only 10 mins up the road......try
Daft.ie : Property for Sale in Ireland, Overseas Property, Property to Let, Houses to Rent, Accommodation Sharing, Parking Spaces in Ireland (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Belfast) (http://www.daft.ie)

for an idea of what accomadation is availible....
Ennis is much better than shannon...cinema pubs clubs pool gyms etc etc

Limerick is also fine but beware the traffic in the evenings

[beamwidth]

2 more vacancies to be filled in Shannon in the past week or so. Where are you all hiding. Does anyone that applied for a permanent position have any info as to what's happening.
In the last 3 months, 3 contract ATCOs in, 3 permanent ATCOs out, more maternity leave to come!

Whats the story?

[Healeypilot]

Of the four people I know that have applied (including myself) one has heard nothing, two have been told they at "short listed" and one has been asked for further information. Meantime we all wait....

[Galway Tower]

Why not call them up in Hawkins house? I rang them(atc related just not about the job) and they were great, a very friendly woman took the call and had plenty of time giving loads of information to me about a future career as an ATCO

[IKEANO]

that was probably Jackie Mahon. She's not a manager but should be. She knows how to deal with people. Top Girl. managers take note.

[ock1f]

Fire ahead

[irishatco]

pm away, or post your question here. if i , or any of my colleagues can help we will, or at least try to give you a steer in the right direction

[itsnotme]

itsnotme. I can confirm that Healeypilot is not management. He is however a rather large unit so it would probably pay to stay on his good side.:}

i will apologise when you both start work here in the land upover.

if anyone has any questions about life and work here just ask on the forum , probably better than to pm. maybe divingduck can help with any questions . he's old ,has no global experience and is Latvian . ok with you duck?

[catullus]

skippy has arrived.one austrailian to the rescue.arrived monday nobody knew he was on the way!usual brewery excuse!nice guy.well trained so they have him doing c d s. ps the radar is broken again:{

[divingduck]

Geeezz, only been here half a dog watch and "outed" already!!

Whoever said to be nice to healypilot has given good advice, imagine me but half a foot taller :)

[itsnotme]

I have a picture of Barry Hall in my head
YouTube - Barry Hall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzN4Ly_yd9w)
GULP!

[Healeypilot]

Wrong game. Union tight head prop is more my thing but at 6ft4 I am a bit tall for a prop. Didn't used to stop me though! :ok:

[Track Coastal]

but at 6ft4 I am a bit tall for a prop.
Perfect size mate.... New Zealand All Blacks Player Profiles, Match Details and Statistics (http://stats.allblacks.com/Profile.asp?ABID=1000)
(6ft 4 and pretty darned good that 'un)

[divingduck]

!!!!OLD!!!!:ooh:
You really know how to hurt a guy.

[itsnotme]

so does Barry Hall :ouch:

[the Shue]

so does Scott Stevens. (Pardon the little light hearted thread drift.):ouch:

YouTube - Scott Stevens Greatest Hits! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw)

[IKEANO]

Wussies the lot of you!
YouTube - Hurling-A Real Mans Game!!! Music Video by Adam Tuohy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSdjLyGA8Oc)

[the Shue]

Hurling looks like a combination of hockey and baseball, very cool! Understand that half the ATC theory test is hurling questions. :eek:

[IKEANO]

There is a big game coming up next weekend . Munster final Clare V Tipperary . Don't miss it. You will be asked questions afterwards. Now. Back to the thread. Who needs info on living and working in the Emerald Isle?

[galliwalli]

I have also been told that I have been short listed and am expecting a telephonic interview shortly.
Can alyone tell me about the equipment used on area. How long are the shifts, and what type of breaks does one get. How often does one work night shift and how much time does one get off in a month?
Assuming I get offered a salary that reflects my 8 years of area experience, would I be able to live comfortably with descent accomodation?
Thanks!!

[thelowestlevel]

In Shannon it is a 5 on and 3 off system, and for arguments sake starting your shift cycle on a Monday:

Monday: Late 1 - 1130-2115
Tuesday: Swing 1 - 0830 - 1635
Wednesday: Dog - 0800 - 1300
Thursday: Night 1 - 0000 - 0840
Friday: Night 2 - 2100 - 0815 (This actually starts at 2100 on thursday night, but as it finishes on Friday it is counted as friday's duty)
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: Rest
Monday: Rest

There are some alternate cycles of all days, but only a few people doing those, and also there is about once about every 8 cycles a 5 on 3 off of with a Late followed by 4 x Swing X - 1000-1935, but the above is the core roster. As regards breaks, the agreed max for sitting in position is 2 hours with a 25 minute fatigue break. Leave outside of Summer Block Leave is virtually non existant, and with those leaving, and those on maternity leave it is only getting tighter.

The atc system is from Thales, it has had its moments of sitting down, more so in DUB recently, not for a while in Shannon. It is similar to what Oz, and NZL have. It takes a while to get used to but it is workable.

Houses for rent are available, and it is getting cheeper to buy here with the economic down turn. There are plenty of options depending on whether you want to live in the cities or out in the country. Look at
Daft.ie : Property for Sale in Ireland, Overseas Property, Property to Let, Houses to Rent, Accommodation Sharing, Parking Spaces in Ireland (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Belfast) (http://www.daft.ie)
Houses for Sale Ireland. Property, Homes, Ireland. Irish Property, Overseas Property - MyHome.ie (http://www.myhome.ie)
for some ideas. Health insurance is expensive enough, as is buying and running a car, but it is doable.

[badback]

Assuming I get offered a salary that reflects my 8 years of area experience, would I be able to live comfortably with descent accomodation?

Assuming they give you credit for the full 8 years experience you should enter the salary scale at point 8, on roughly €75k inclusive of shift allowance [overtime and bank holiday pay is extra] You could sign up for a call-in scheme for €4k a year plus 2x time for hours worked, in exchange for one call-in duty a month (to a max of 8 duties worked pa). For info, €75k is more than twice the average industrial wage.

Interest rates are running around 5.5% though house prices are dropping rapidly.

Dublin roster is also a 5/3 cycle, core twist is 2 late duties, a day, then either early/night rotation or two early duties. Here's the most regular example:

15:00 - 23:30
14:00 - 23:00
08:30 - 18:00
06:30 - 14:00
23:00 - 07:00 [or 07:00 - 14:00]

There are a lot of variations on that cycle, but the basic structure involves late starts working towards early starts.

30min fatigue breaks are required after a max of 2hrs in position (all radar plus AMC are fatigable though SMC is probably the busiest position of all)

[IKEANO]

We are now working in a stripless environment and have been for a few months. It's working really well. Most of the time we work 2 person sectors . Before stripless came in , the planning controller was often times distracted and inundated with duplicate and triplicate strips, sorting them out and filling the bins with unnecessary waste.
Thankfully , that is all in the past and now we have two pairs of eyes and ears fully trained and focused on the sector suite operation and radar picture . Radar screens are in in both positions. The planning controller generally pans out on an extended range and alerts the executive(radar ) controller to potential conflicts and monitors times and time restrictions as well as the usual co-ordination functions with adjacent units and sectors. Its a safe and comforting set up now with the strips out of the way. I think most of the Shannon controllers feel the same way. It is also an example of how management are improving and moving the system forward and improving the operational environment so '' ALL CREDIT TO THE LADS''.
But before I get carried away ,like all management, they make a fair balls up of other things too. Single person operations are also planned in the future but I think alot of controllers find the prospect daunting. It's great piece of mind to have your colleague by your side for cross reference.

[Sexual Tyrannosaurus]

but at 6ft4 I am a bit tall for a prop.

You not 6'4", you no taller than me.

Like the scotty stephens video, is that how he got 'The Contractor' role?:E

[ock1f]

Man your log- in must take ages!

[expATCO]

Hi to everyone at this forum!

I am experienced ATCO applicant with IAA with 5 years of area control experience. Today I had an interview by phone. They told me that they will be in contact in a couple of weeks. Has anyone else had an interview and has any idea of the further stages of the recruitment process?

[itsnotme]

Man your log- in must take ages!
why didn't he just call himself T-SEX
BOOM BOOM!

expatco
i don't think they have a set format to the recruitment process. they seem to make it up as they go along. just keep the pressure on. posting here helps. Hope you can speak English cos that helps too. The last guy they hired couldn't.

[expATCO]

2 itsnotme

I have got ICAO level 4 certificate. So I hope I can speak English but the more one works in an English speaking environment the more his speech becomes more fluent;)

Is that last guy still working for them? What was his recruitment process?

If I got ACC rating, I don't think that I would have to undergo rating training. So I think that next stage may be a final interview in the IAA premises (not on the phone) then medical examination. And finally, on-the-job training. Am I right?

[divingduck]

aaaahhhhh no.
You will have to do the course in the classroom and simulator.
You will do about 2 weeks general famil, then a month in the sim, then OJTI for around 180 hours.

[expATCO]

2 divingduck

Thanks for the reply. I have made that conclusion after reading this Irish Aviation Authority - Student Controller Programme (http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=98&n=382) . And what is the salary during this process? Will I be paid as indicated here Irish Aviation Authority - Commonly Asked Questions (http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=382&n=373) until I get my endorsement?

[The Jolly Roger]

divingduck....i'm surprised you needed ALL that training!!!! you might wanna have a look at your location too...all BUT desert!!!!:ok:

[itsnotme]

Is that last guy still working for them?
No.
What was his recruitment process?
I'd love to know

[OCEAN WUN ZERO]

Good people of Dublin can one of you confirm the Approach Radar service for EIDW is done from what might be known as the "Dublin control centre" and that this would be a single Unit Licence endorsment separate from EIDW tower( ie you dont do tower and approach radar)

Cheers
:)

[Red_All_Over]

Ocean Wun Zero,
Numerous ATCO's have Approach and Tower. Others have Tower and Area and some have Tower, Approach and Area. One or two have either Area or Approach and Surface Movements. Some have Approach and Area and some have Tower only. Better flexibility on roster and good for Controllers to have somewhere different to go. All are seperate endorsements on you're licence. Hope this is what you're looking for.

[expATCO]

Can anyone tell me about traffic density and capacity at Shannon ACC, number of sectors they have and how many controllers are operating in each shift?

[qnhhpa]

Ocean Wun Zero,

Dublin Approach Radar service is carried out in the 'Dublin Control Centre', as is Shannon Apprach Radar and sometime in the future Cork Approach Radar will be there too.

Traditionally controllers were multi-rated in Tower, Approach and Ground. There was a move away from this in recent years, however due to staffing shortages, the flexibility of multiple ratings is necessary to run the place.

So it is possible to have a single rating, as some do, but you could expect to be given more than one - time and training resources allowing.

[IRLATCO]

expATCO,in response to your query:
Traffic density varies dependant on both The North Atlantic Track Structure on any given day and the time of the week ie from approx Thursday to Sunday inclusive,theres a significant amount of charter traffic that predominantly flies in a North/South direction and visa versa.
As yet we do not have any usable sector capacities in operaton.A Sector Capacity study has begun and its results should be known by November of this year.
The number of sectors varies from day to day but a general rule of thumb would be approx. 6 secors for the night time Eastbound flow and betwen 6-9 sectors for the daytime Westbound flow.
The roster has already been discussed and explained on this thread and on average there are 13 operational ATCO's attatched to each team.This number would be exclusive of those on Annual Leave(For those fortunate enough to get it.)

[Track Coastal]

Dublin Approach Radar service is carried out in the 'Dublin Control Centre', as is Shannon Apprach Radar and sometime in the future Cork Approach Radar will be there too.

1. Which has the most vacancies for an experienced APP controller comfy using Thales EUROCAT and speaks the Aussie dialect of English?

2. Which APP unit has the most beer quaffing Rugby afficionados that make regular trips (BIG day out type events) to Lansdowne Road and think Donal Lenihan is a cultural icon?

3. How many Euros can the said App controller expect (before and after tax) as a full time employee (not on contract)?

[expATCO]

And How many days of Annual Leave do you have?

[Robot1]

31 days, rising to 34 when you reach point 10 on the pay scale.

[beamwidth]

Track Coastal/expATCO
1) Dublin: APP is done in the Dublin ACC for EIDW and EINN. (EICK has its own APP unit at the moment, but that's planned to go to DUB ACC)
2) No clear winner: Not sure about "Donal Lenihan" and "cultural icon". There is no mass "ATC Supporters club", but ATCOs from all stations like to attend and/or drink beer!
3)Ballpark figures
5 years experience = €70k gross, +/- €45k nett
10 years = €80-85k gross, +/- €52k-58k nett
15 years+ = €95k-105k gross, +/- €60k-70k nett
anyone with more accurate info, feel free to jump in

Annual Leave: see Robot 1 above. There are 12 public holidays throughout the year. One may opt to add these days to Leave compliment, or receive a premium (2 times hourly rate) on top of normal days pay, if you work them

If you are given a permanent contract, then that's exactly what it is (according to union/management agreement). You'd be just like the rest of us in terms of job security.

Hope that helps, fire away with any other questions. Good luck

[ock1f]

Wot he said^ ..in a nutshell

[banerjipp]

Is there any vacancy at dublin also ?:cool:

[ock1f]

Yes plenty!!!!!!

[left bass]

anyone with more accurate info, feel free to jump in

Yes we all make 140000 euro.

:E

[expATCO]

please be serious. otherwise I would think that you work in oil industry earning millions and I will resign immediately from my current position :ugh: and make harakiri

[left bass]

Well it came from a very reliable source (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=08&month=feb&story=gen-en-200208-2)so it must be true! :}

To be serious, beamwidth's figures are more accurate although they looked slightly on the high side to me, maybe by about 5000 or so.

There are definitely vacancies in Dublin. Many retirements over the next 5 years. All ratings required, the current shortage is Area, but if Dub mgmt are smart they won't wait to start a big Area course - they'll get a few people rated in ground/tower first.

[expATCO]

So who can tell the exact figure???? With five years of experience how much would I earn? At the preliminary interview they told me approx. 75000euro per annum (including shift allowances, holiday hours etc.). How much would it be after taxes, health insurance, social insurance? What are tha rates of these?

Do they pay any additional allowances when one is married and has a child or in other cases?

[expATCO]

2 left bass

As I understand ATCOs and airlines are enemies in Ireland? :eek: why is that? Do they earn less or think that their work is more important?

[jumparound]

Do they pay any additional allowances when one is married and has a child or in other cases?

No.

But you get an extra increment after 2 years if you sign up to be an Expert i.e. to do projects/OJTI/instructor and co-ordinate.

[Track Coastal]

Approx how many App controllers short are you? Other than retirements are you bleeding controllers to other ANSPs as well (eg NATS, Serco Dubai etc)?

[ATC1972]

What’s the cost of living in Dublin, rent/bond, car payments, electricity, water, insurance, groceries, etc?
Can any one own property?
Do you have any discounts with airlines?

[expATCO]

ATC1972

Don't you know that airlines are enemies?:E

[ATC1972]

So, they still need to be cleared to land.:)

[expATCO]

But first of all they need to obtain ATC departure clearance ;-)

[expATCO]

Guys/Girls who are successful at the preliminary interview or at other stages, please pm me. This thursday I'm going to have the second interview and wanted to talk about it

[banerjipp]

Has anybody got offer or call from IAA.:)

[itsnotme]

don't think you'll be getting one

[west atc]

I have got a reply back after the interview last Thursday.

I've got an interview with the Dublin Terminal Area next Wednesday, can anyone who works in Dublin PM me please, I have a few questions that I would like answered.

[banerjipp]

why not ? would definitely like to work with you !!!!

[itsnotme]

I'm working with enough phuckin' eejits as it is.

[banerjipp]

I hope you are not that type. At least some really really good people like you will be there. HA HA:)

[itsnotme]

I'm in stitches

[expATCO]

Still no reply....:confused:

[west atc]

Still no reply....

Several Ozzies have been told that they will receive written offers this week for both Shannon and Dublin.

I had a second interview last week and was given a verbal job offer for a course starting in October.

They are running Area R courses in October and January, I assume if you haven't heard by now that they would be looking at the January course for you and they would be busy arranging the October course.

Keep your head up they will probably get back to you once all the people who are on the October course are organized. :ok:

[expATCO]

As far as I know at least two Ozzies are not happy with conditions they offer. So I don't think they would be recruited:cool:

[west atc]

Which ozzies would they be then?

There is one currently in Shannon and at least one already in Dublin. There is also at least one more probably two or their way to Dublin (me included) and another starts in Shannon in October.

Since I currently work in Australia I think my intel would be a bit better.

[expATCO]

You are from Melbourne. But there are some guys from Brisbane;)

[divingduck]

accuracy please....:=

There are two Aussies currently in Shannon, 2 Canadians, and a Kiwi turned up yesterday.

Ab ex Brisbane guy is in Dublin at the moment.

I do know of another Brisbane guy turning up in January, and one from Brizzy that also said no thanks and is considering Germany.

[west atc]

They are running Area R courses in October and January, I assume if you haven't heard by now that they would be looking at the January course for you and they would be busy arranging the October course.

Keep your head up they will probably get back to you once all the people who are on the October course are organized

expATCO,

I think the point of my original post has gotten lost. I was saying that if you haven't heard by now then it doesn't mean that you won't be given a place.

It seems that they are organizing the October course first prior to contacting people about the January course.

accuracy please....

There are two Aussies currently in Shannon, 2 Canadians, and a Kiwi turned up yesterday.

Ab ex Brisbane guy is in Dublin at the moment.

I do know of another Brisbane guy turning up in January, and one from Brizzy that also said no thanks and is considering Germany.

Mea Culpa. :O

The point was there are still Aussies who are keen to go to Ireland because working for ASA is becoming untenable.

There will always be people who are offered and say no, it depends on what your motivation for moving is.

[pm210668]

Got an email this morning from IAA HR.

Basically, it was thanks for your application, but no thank you.

Not quite sure what these people are loooking for!!

[rocky01]

Well, there ya go, after months of silence, and one email, I get the shove from IAA HR today...

"Thank you for your application to work as an Air Traffic Controller in the IAA.

Unfortunately, we will not be proceeding further with your application on this occasion.

Thank you for your interest in the position and I wish you well in your controller career."

Could someone tell me what you have to do to get a job with the IAA, (apart from being an Aussie or Kiwi)???...best of luck to you anyway lads and lassies...:ok:

Aaargh....25 years radar experience (Military), trained from day 1 on ATM 2000/Thales system, familiar with all the airspace, all the coord procedures...etc etc...

Sorry...but I am fuming...:ugh:...:mad::mad:

Rocky01

[expATCO]

Does anyone know how many vacancies do they have at Shannon ACC and how many guys who had applied but changed their minds? Only facts, please...:cool:

[expATCO]

Ok, no info about it...

I've got a job offer now and have some queries about it.

So can anyone tell anything about health insurance in Ireland? Do IAA pay for it? Cause as far as I know medical services in Ireland are not so cheap...

In case one loses his license after failing some exams what happens then? Do they offer any other vacancies within IAA?

[beamwidth]

The IAA does not pay health insurance. You're correct that its not cheap, but it is almost a necessity, as the public health service is a disaster.
The IAA will not normally offer you employment elsewhere, if you fail exams. If you are coming as an ATCO then that's what you'll be. If you dont make the grade - as happened recently with our Belarusian friend, you will be let go

[expATCO]

Anyway, those who don't risk, don't drink champaign ;) I wouldn't apply if I knew that I can't go back to my previous employer:cool:

[SINGAPURCANAC]

@expatATCO,
having no idea to say YES/NO to your decesion but it seems(upon my research) that IAA offer is not anything special.
Do not expect that you will save more than 1000 Eur/per month,after all payments(tax,health insurance,appartment,utility,food...).
I don't know where you come from but as lowest paid rdr ATCO in Europe after all those expenses(mentioned above) 600/700EUr remains.
So I think that IAA offer is not :
those who don't risk, don't drink champaign
I don't know what exactly they offered to you,but I do not believe that full salary will be paid before rating/endorsment for particular sector(s) .

Some other solutions seem to be better,and as shortage of ATCOs (so I have been told:E) exist expect even more better offers in near future.
If you have strong wish to leave your employer:ok:,or you are looking for change and challenge:ok: in your life than wait for a little.
With 27 years,all ratings and ability to move you are in better position than many ANSPs around World. They need you.
Anyhow,
best wishes in any directions you decide,

[aussiegal]

Any tower jobs on offer!!!

[allrounder99]

G'day All.

I've just read this entire thread and I have a few questions.
I have received an offer of a permanent position with 5 yrs radar experience. On my calculations and they could be wrong, 75K EU including shift penalites + subscription to the Overtime scheme taking gross pay to around 84K + public holidays works out to around 88k. After checking tax rates, I worked this out to a net pay after contributions (roughly 6%) of 4362 EU per month.

My guess at monthly expenses are:

Rent 800
Phone 60
Food 400 (couple)
Internet 50
Other Utils 400
Car 500


I guess that health insurance needs paying aswell. Anyone know what that is worth for a married couple?

From Australia, what I know is that at least 2 people have offers for starting in October and they are from the brisbane centre.

Are there any costs that I appear to have missed?

I hope it works out and I get to work with y'all.

[west atc]

G'day Allrounder,

I assume that you are going to Shannon as the rent in Dublin is generally higher than 800 per month.

I am currently in Melbourne Centre and have been offered a job in Dublin starting in October.

Have a look at this site for health insurance, we found it fairly useful.

Health Care Ireland. Health Insurance Ireland. Vhi Ireland (http://www.vhi.ie/info/product_selector/index.jsp)

For used cars this is a handy site.

Car Buyers Guide - Buy & Sell, New & Used Cars in Ireland with CBG (http://www.cbg.ie/)

It looks like used cars are pretty cheap in Ireland but you have to be careful with the taxes. I have been told that it is better to go with a Diesel car as the taxes work out cheaper.

Cheers,

West ATC

[badback]

Morning fellas.

Properties to let (http://www.daft.ie/)

Dublin rents will be around the €1300 mark, though depending on location and type of property there could be significant variation.

Car tax for cars registered after July 08 is based on CO2 emissions, pre-July the old system of engine size still applies. See here (http://www.irishlinks.co.uk/car-tax-ireland.htm).

For health insurance, look at the alternatives to VHI:

Hibernian Health (http://www.vivashealth.ie)

Quinn Healthcare (http://www.quinn-healthcare.com/)

subscription to the Overtime scheme taking gross pay to around 84K

Bear in mind, the payment for this scheme involves a lump sum payment of €4k on signing up, then double time for hours worked [rostered for 1 day a month, requirement to attend for 8 of the 12 days] In Dublin there's a pretty good chance you'll get to work all 8 days in the year, and more if you want (subject to a max of 3 days per month, and 24 days per annum)

[allrounder99]

Thanks guys for that info.

Yes it is shannon that I am off to. I've been looking around ennis for a place to rent and have seen suitable places for the 7-800 mark/month.

Would it cost around 200 Euros a month in heating, assuming its on 24/7!!

[nibog]

I got that email too, no job for me.
Process took an excessively long time, with no tranparancy on the recruitment process at all. Would have been nice to get an offer, and have something to consider. It's not so much the lack of an offer that pisses me off, it's more the whole recruitment process and the way we've been left in the dark. Would I really want to work for this organisation? :ugh:

[ATCO94]

I got the job in october 08.
can anybody tell me what will be the take home pay per fortnight after all the deductions. Pay fixed at Euro 62000 + shift pay + OT
Like tax, standard deductions from pay.
What are the other costs like health insurance, car loan payments, child education, heating costs, corporation tax etc.( have I missed anything?)

[beamwidth]

ATCO94 et al
There is a wealth of info within this thread about all you need to know
Ballpark figures!
Net income is about 70% of gross income. The OT scheme only guarantees 4K per annum.If you are called its double time for the hours worked. There are 12 Bank Holidays in Ireland. On average you hit 8 of them @ 3x pay or 2x pay + day in lieu - your choice. the ones you miss are extra days pay or day off in lieu.

Health Insurance nuclear family is 2k
Phone/2Mb Internet €720
Electricity €1500
Rent - regional differences - see above threads
Schools - Free - books uniforms etc = 1 x arm + 1 x leg
VAT (sales tax) is 21% - a real bastard!
Interest rates - as per ECB 4.5%
Average Industrial wage €35-40K

Pint of Beer €5
20 Cigarettes €8
Big Mac meal €8
3 Course meal for 2 + wine €100
10Km cab ride €10-15
Petrol €1.25 ish Diesel €1.35 ish

What else do ya need?

[expATCO]

Electricity €1500, Phone/2Mb Internet €720:eek: Is it per year or per month or per what?

[beamwidth]

Electricity €1500, Phone/2Mb Internet €720 Is it per year or per month or per what

Per Year. Its expensive here, but not that expensive!

[ATCO94]

thank you beamwidth
how much is heating costs( or is it included in the electricity )

What are the working hours in dublin & shannon. Also the rest/relief in day & night duties. Any career development/diversification opportunities given by IAA.:confused:

[expATCO]

@ ATCO94

If you got the job read carefully your letter of appointment;)

[ATCO94]

expatco If you donot undertand the question will clarify.
That letter only tells about no of working hours in week. My question was what is the shift pattern like. What is the rest-relief cycle. Do you count the relief time in the total working hours in the week.
Tell me are these given in your appointment letter ?
can you mail me copy of your appointment letter?

[badback]

Read page 4 of this thread for shift details.

[beamwidth]

i believe that the standard IAA rules pertain .....
5 years before you're entitled to apply for a promotion.
Other opertunities arise with less experience - e.g. OJTI, UCE, Instructor etc. These normally have a 2 year experience requirement.

On the matterr of heating bills, in the main, about the same as electricity ( most heating systems are oil or gas based ) subject to change

[ATCO94]

Thank you all . hope to see you soon.:ok:

[expATCO]

ATCO94 then you should read all thread properly before writing queries here:cool:

[expATCO]

Can anyone tell any temporary place to stay before I can get my permanent accommodation?

[beamwidth]

expATCO

I'm sure we can suggest something, but at least meet us half way!!!!!!
Where?/How many people?/What type (hotel/B+B/a room in a house)How do you intend to commute (bus/train/car foot)?

[expATCO]

I think some cheap B&B near the training centre would be great:ok:. I'd like to go either by foot or by bus:rolleyes: I found Shannon Lodge B&B but was unable to book it:ugh:

[beamwidth]

try this link for a start.
???????????????? (http://www.shannon.ie/com_groups.asp?group=bandb)
The training centre is in Ballycasey, next to Shannon town.
The b and b's listed as being in ballycasey are less than 5 mins walk from training centre, some are across the road from it.
Shannon town centre is 15 mins walk.
The airport is 5km away from Shannon town.

[Tower Ranger]

Hey Beamwidth,

Do they not still travel by donkey and burn peats that far South West???

Looks like you will have you hands and ears full with new trainees shortly,

Cheers TR

[beamwidth]

TR
With the price of oil, it wont be long before we're burning the donkey!

i guess its a long way from the sun,sand,more sand,more sand and oil that you've become used to,buddy.

I'd encourage you to come, but we couldn't afford to pay you enough to continue with the lifestyle that you have acquired!!!!

dont forget the factor 50, wee man

Regards
BW

[thorisgod]

you might find everything you need to know on the internet. If you are prepared to make a move like this then put in the spade work.

here's a good starting point:
It's your money (http://www.itsyourmoney.ie/index.jsp)

Website run by irish financial regulator.
make sure to check out the life events section and the cost compare section.

Good luck with all the application business.

[the Shue]

expATCO Should be a lot of B+B rooms available in an area called Bunratty. It's a tourist area about 5 or so kms from the ACC. Tourism is down this year so room availability is higher than norm. Bunratty Arms is the only name I can recall at the moment. You'll need to hire a rental car.

[thelowestlevel]

HI Guys,

Have any of you that have accepted positions in Shannon/Dublin been given any indication as to when you are likely to start training etc.

No firm numbers have been given to us yet, but i think a class of 6 starting in shannon in October :hmm: :hmm:

Cheers!!! :ok:

[expATCO]

thelowestlevel

They require to arrive on 28th October at Shannon, but as I understood starting date of employment is on 20th October. Yes there will be 6 of us there.

Do everybody need a green card to sign a contract there? When are you guys who received letter of appointment going to arrive to Shannon/Dublin?

[thelowestlevel]

expATCO,

it probably depends on where you are from, inside the EU, probably not, outside, i would think that some sort of work permit would be required, i doubt that it is that difficult to obtain, although knowing irish red tape, it could take a bit of time :ugh: :ugh:

Your best bet would be to enquire from those already here, shannon has 2 canadians, 2 aussies, and 1 kiwi :D :D

not sure about Dublin.

[expATCO]

That means that everybody except me are already there?

[RATKA]

ExpATCO,
By law you can't be issued a formal contract until you have a work permit. You may get a draft copy in an email but that will be all. If you have filled out your application for the work permit it will take about four weeks to process once it arrives back in Ireland. The IAA will then send you your work permit together with your contract and letters to obtain bank accounts etc.

In terms of staff who are already here, the people thelowestlevel mentioned started from other courses. The people on your course will start at the same as you and the ones I am aware of wont arrive until early - mid October.

[expATCO]

Good news! So Ireland, expect my arrival on appr. 20th October:ok:Thanks to everyone for the help:O

[itsnotme]

Ta failte romhat

[west atc]

Does anyone know if the people selected for Dublin will be doing all their training in Dublin or will it be at the college in Shannon.

Cheers

[expATCO]

itsnotme

Go raibh maith agat:cool:

[itsnotme]

maith an fear:ok:

[expATCO]

Just trying to learn something about country I am going to move:O As far as I know it is a great country with a great culture and friendly people. Hope you guys working at Shannon won't regret taking me into your team:ok:

[itsnotme]

http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/dvd/aplus/borat/600/borat_05_600.jpg

ERRRR!!!

[expATCO]

:Dnice bag, but the flag is wrong:=

[The Jolly Roger]

Is it still raining???????:cool: ahhhhhhhhhh..........

[itsnotme]

only in our hearts since you left. .............................us in the sh1t

[expATCO]

In the what?????!!!!!!!:eek: Should I revise my decision about the job?

[itsnotme]

relax.its just making fun. you know ...jokes. First i say '' it's raining in our hearts since you left '' then i say '' nnnnnot! '' get it.

[expATCO]

Yeah, I'm cool:cool:. Joking too:ok: I'm sure that I will recognize you in Shannon by your style of joking;)

[itsnotme]

look forward to working with you . you will enjoy working here and may even find it to be a refreshing change. see you soon.

[west atc]

Do you two want to get a room? :}

[itsnotme]

azamat bogatov springs to mind. not such a good idea.

[aqua27]

I am joining Dublin next month; could anyone advise me where can I get a decent temporary accommodation. Initially I will be coming alone after few months I will bring my family. I searched daft.ie, but I don't know which part of the city will be better for me. I need help. Thanks a lot

[bob55]

Anywhere in Temple Bar - if you want to see the nightlife (highly recommended)

[beamwidth]

using Daft- check out the town of swords as a starter. its only a few kms from the airport/acc and has decent (by irish standards) transport links. the town itself has pretty much everything that you may need. there are plenty of other places close enough to the acc, but this is a good starting point.

[jackl]

A question for all you people giving up jobs in Oz etc .

Why on earth would you want to come to Ireland? It has rained non stop for the last 3 months (Irish summer ), the cost of living is possibly the highest in Europe , the health service is third world, the economy is in freefall, the rosters we work are murder, you will never get a word of appreciation from our management . In fact the only face to face you will get is when you are in trouble. You will never get a days casual leave.

If you dont believe me read the threads for the last 12 months on pprune.

Apart from all this the lads are good to work with and you will be treated with fairness and respect on the operations floor.

Any comments please.......

[IKEANO]

anywhere along the coast is nice. Donabate, Malahide, Portmarnock, lots of controllers living there, Baldoyle , sutton and Howth. Howth is very nice, good pubs, restaurants, harbour, its scenic and is the last stop on the Dart line.

[Blockla]

I'm on my way across in 2 weeks:

Why on earth would you want to come to Ireland? Well it's an opportunity to explore the world, well Europe anyway.
It has rained non stop for the last 3 months (Irish summer ),I have noticed, it will be a nice change, for a while anyway, the weather is a concern, but not insurmountable, tis only the weather, we'll see after I'm there for a while...
the cost of living is possibly the highest in Europe, the health service is third world, the economy is in freefall, Maybe true, but life's an adventure; my decision is not financially based, if it were I wouldn't be flying 6 hours past the middle east; where I had an offer.
the rosters we work are murderThey look good compared to what we have in Oz and the current contract discussions the employer want's to make them worse, a little consistency will be appreciated.
you will never get a word of appreciation from our management. In fact the only face to face you will get is when you are in trouble. Just like any other ANSP; ASA probably has the trophy of worlds worst? (and there are many contenders) We had Global recruits come in 12 months ago, all those on LWOP from their previous employer, except the Sth Africans, will be going home after their LWOP runs out; none like the management or the company.
You will never get a days casual leave. same same. Have you noticed the TIBA thing going on in OZ, almost everyday in the last 6 months without exception I have worked in a short staffed environment, enough is enough.

For me Ireland is an escape vehicle, I hope I'm headed in the right direction; if not I can always change my mind at some time; it's not like it's irreversible; even if ASA doesn't take me back; the Middle East will always have vacancies, particularly post Dubai World Central opening.

[west atc]

A question for all you people giving up jobs in Oz etc .

Why on earth would you want to come to Ireland?




I'll keep my answers sensible.

It has rained non stop for the last 3 months (Irish summer )

We get practically no rain in Melbourne any more which can be as bad as having rain all the time. Apart from that I have been keeping an eye on the Dublin weather and it is not quite true to say that it has rained non-stop for the last 3 months.

the cost of living is possibly the highest in Europe

The cost of living is getting higher and higher in Australia and according to the latest cost of living figures, Sydney is more expensive to live in than Dublin is and Melbourne is closing fast. London is still far more expensive to live in than Dublin so it is also not true to say that the cost of living is possibly the highest in Europe.

the health service is third world

The health service in Australia is not perfect either, the waiting lists for public hospitals are ridiculously long and Private Health Insurance premiums are rising at about 8-10% a year.

the economy is in freefall

This isn't unique to Ireland and in some way is a bonus because it means that rents are coming down and house prices are falling.

the rosters we work are murder

I can't see how working 5on 3 off is murder, we work a variety of shifts from 3 on 1 off to 4 on 1 or 2 off and 5 on 2 off. We also can finish at 11.30pm on the last shift, have 2 days off then start with an 0730 on the first day of the new cycle which can make your days off go very quickly.

you will never get a word of appreciation from our management

????? Where does this happen? If you are looking for praise from management than you are in the wrong job.

In fact the only face to face you will get is when you are in trouble

I prefer to avoid any face to face contact with management, it is better to come in, talk to the aircraft than go home.


You will never get a days casual leave

This is the same in Australia and in fact if the current mob get their way we also won't have any proper days off. They are looking to introduce a system where you will practically be on call during your days off because if you turn down an overtime shift you will have to explain to your immediate manager why you said no.

If you dont believe me read the threads for the last 12 months on pprune.

Have a look at the "ASA Solves Staff Shortage" Thread in "D&G Reporting Points" and you will see that it is no better and possibly a lot worse in Australia. We are up to August 51st on the "Gregorian" Calendar because our staff shortages will be fixed by the end of August!

Apart from all this the lads are good to work with and you will be treated with fairness and respect on the operations floor.

This is all you want when you work in ATC, it is the same in Australia that the people who work on the floor with you are good value and make it all worthwhile.

Any comments please.......

Speaking personally I was born in Ireland and moved out to Australia with my family when I was 7 years old. I am looking forward to coming "home" to Ireland and to experiencing a different kind of life. I have had the same comments from some of my family as to why would I want to go to Ireland and my answer is always the same.

"Because I want to experience a different life to the one that I have lived for the last 30 years and Europe is so accessible, the amount of places we will be able to see is endless."

Jackl, with all due respect you seem to have lived all your life in Ireland and it is understandable that you are tired of the IAA and the Irish weather.

Don't discourage people who have the courage to try something different and experience a different kind of life. It takes a lot of strength to relocate countries and the last thing people need to hear is generalized negativity from people like yourself.

I can guarantee you that anyone who has made the decision to move to Ireland has not done it lightly and will have done a good bit of research prior to making the decision.

My final reason for moving?

Guinness!

Maybe we can have one together if you work in Dublin :ok:

Oh and trying to finish this post, other reasons for moving.....

Liverpool FC
Dublin GAA
Republic of Ireland Internationals
St Andrews, Ballybunion, K Club, Portmarnock etc. (I play off a 6 handicap)
Shopping in Paris for the other half (not sure if this is good or not :{ )
Europe!!! :cool:


Hope this helps you understand.

[west atc]

Hey Block,

You posted your reply while I was typing my version of War and Peace! :}

Some very good points in your post also.

Jackl check this out also

YouTube - We still have TIBA at home... (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=G0z2EQR6EWM)

[itsnotme]

Pay no attention to Jackl. It's beautiful
Dublin Weather Forecasts on Yahoo! Weather (http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USTX0387.html)

[IKEANO]

With an attitude and an outlook like that you will have no problems no matter where you go. I hope you take the up one of the positions with the IAA, we could do with your kind and lots more like you. I hope your attitude rubs off on a few of our more negative colleagues.It would be a good idea if one of our current Direct entries came on this thread to give an honest opinion and comparison. ''6 handicap''. Portmarnock for you. Although Donabate has a fine selection of courses. Best of luck and hope you take the job.

[jackl]

IN my defence,,

If I come across as overly negative that was not the intention but I would like to state the following,

(a) The last twelve to eighteen months have been a bruising and difficult time for controllers in IAA. The dispute was difficult and morale sapping for all staff and the comments made in the media about us by our management were uncalled for, hurtful and downright disrecpectful to a staff that carried out major changes in rosters, equipment and procedures without complaint . Did this make me angry .You bet it did !!!!!

(b) As regards contract staff, I for one welcome anyone who will make our lives a bit easier and allow us to get a day off for a wedding , christening etc. I admire their bravery to travel so far as i have worked abroad and know what it is like .Just join the union and dont let yourselves be used as a stick to beat us in the next dispute.

(c) As i stated ,the job itself is fine and you will be treated fairly by all the staff. As regards not getting any recognition for work well done ,if it is an international thing in ATC centres it is still wrong and it costs very little to appreciate good hard working staff with a few words of praise or a company sponsored night out. After all as far as I know we are still the revenue generating side of the company.

(d) Mabye it is the weather just getting at me as we have had the worst summer on record or perhaps the fact that i have just paid a second mortage on childcare this month .

Apart from all that we are still a great little country ..

[The Jolly Roger]

Jackl has a few valid points......I don't think that he is trying to paint a grim picture of Ireland and working for the IAA. There are certain things that need to be said. Yeah, the weather is crap.....if ya like the rain, go out and get wet!!! Irish weather is sh**e for the most of the year anyways. It does get you down and I'm convinced its why half the country is depressed!!! The IAA isn't a bad company to work for. Yeah they could be better but what company couldn't. And I think the IAA know this very much!! The one thing that you do feel working there is secure. I did anyways. With regards to the economy.....from what i'm hearing, it is in freefall. It was bound to happen. No doubt it will pick up again in the future. It IS expensive to live there. Let no-one tell you otherwise. Cars aren't cheap, petrol isn't cheap, childcare isn't cheap, food isn't cheap. I'm saying this because even tho the salary is high compared to the average industrial wage in Ireland, you still feel a pinch. If you want to go to Ireland to make money, forget it. If you want to go to feed your appetite for adventure, go for it. The grass is always a little greener wherever you go. When I decided to leave the emerald isle, I asked myself one question: In 20 years time will I look back and regret not walking away from the comfort zone and walking into something I knew little about? The answer is I would. So far so good.....but you never know. Take it as it comes. Ireland is a great place....but right now, the desert is better!!! (and hotter!!!!)....

[IKEANO]

Jackl,
Your mood and tone are just typical of an IAA controller at this moment in time. We were crapped on by our own management quite publicly and foolishly. The troubles continue and the battle goes on. The IAA still don't realise the damage they've done . They still haven't seen the effects. They still believe that they are in control and we will capitulate , roll over and tow the company line. You and I both know that EB and his Motley Crew can, for now, and the foreseeable future go F**k themselves. The head of this organisation has been severed from the body.
In the meantime we need to do what we can to improve our conditions of work and staffing. You and I will continue to do our jobs to the best of our ability and soldier on til we get to the light at the end of the tunnel.
Any day at work that you don't have contact with management is a good day. Your chance will come to make a difference in ATC and when it does , just remember the antics of the current management regime and where it got them. That's if you haven't taken your (in demand) skills and ability somewhere (warmer) instead.:ok:
The IAA isn't a bad company to work for
They just ain't the sharpest tools in the shed

[Blockla]

Thanks for the information folks.

I've been lurking here for a while; obviously I've tried to be informed about the decision my family and I have made.

We definitely aren't doing this as a money making exercise. We definitely aren't expecting the IAA to be significantly better than ASA, but I hope it is better. From what I have garnered so far, it is better in terms of work life balance; even if some of you consider the rosters to be sh!te; it's what you are used to I guess, ASA is becoming the envy of the world, NOT!. :mad: :ugh:

If you want to go to feed your appetite for adventure, go for it. The grass is always a little greener wherever you go. When I decided to leave the emerald isle, I asked myself one question: In 20 years time will I look back and regret not walking away from the comfort zone and walking into something I knew little about? The answer is I would. So far so good.....but you never know. Take it as it comes. Ireland is a great place....but right now, the desert is better!!! (and hotter!!!!).... This pretty much sums up why we are going to Ireland. Well except the last sentence. I would have loved to have gone straight to the desert, but with the family in tow it was going to be too big a challenge and too culturally confronting. (even though my first few phone calls to natives have left me thinking what have I done, what did he say?) :}

Hopefully the Irish adventure will give us as a family the courage to go live in the desert (or elsewhere) for a while when homeward bound, as a money making exercise... but there are many other parts of the world that may open up to us once we've taken the step outside our comfort zone time will tell.

Being further away from family will be a challenge, but life is an adventure, but right now we see most of them twice a year anyway.

PS, I'm coming across on a 3 year contract, being a former VP of our union in OZ, my intention is to join your union ASAP.

[west atc]

Hey Guys,

Good to hear some balanced discussion about the IAA and advice on what we should be keeping an eye on.

As regards contract staff, I for one welcome anyone who will make our lives a bit easier and allow us to get a day off for a wedding , christening etc. I admire their bravery to travel so far as i have worked abroad and know what it is like .Just join the union and dont let yourselves be used as a stick to beat us in the next dispute.

I have joined the IAA as a permanent employee and I will be joining IMPACT as soon as I am permitted too, I have already had a good look at the website.

childcare isn't cheap

We are unlucky (lucky) enough that we don't have any kids!

We definitely aren't doing this as a money making exercise. We definitely aren't expecting the IAA to be significantly better than ASA, but I hope it is better. From what I have garnered so far, it is better in terms of work life balance; even if some of you consider the rosters to be sh!te; it's what you are used to I guess, ASA is becoming the envy of the world, NOT!.

Hear, Hear!

Life is too short to wonder what if?

With an attitude and an outlook like that you will have no problems no matter where you go. I hope you take the up one of the positions with the IAA, we could do with your kind and lots more like you. I hope your attitude rubs off on a few of our more negative colleagues.It would be a good idea if one of our current Direct entries came on this thread to give an honest opinion and comparison. ''6 handicap''. Portmarnock for you. Although Donabate has a fine selection of courses. Best of luck and hope you take the job.

Thanks for that, a change is as good as a holiday as they say. I have taken up one of the permanent positions and will be arriving in Dublin on October 1st. I will be coming into the ACC early the following week to have a look and hopefully get a head start on my training, I'm expecting it to be tough but not insurmountable.

If any of the guys in Dublin want to go out for a drink or a round of Golf sometime after I arrive let me know by PM. :ok:

[IKEANO]

If any of the guys in Dublin want to go out for a drink or a round of Golf sometime after I arrive let me know by PM. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
Sometime.ya kidding. that's all they do up there.
they'll bring you drinking first. Get that handicap upto a respectable double figure.

[321Blastoff]

My two cents:

Cost of living - Rental accomodation is much cheaper than Australia and NZ, working out of Shannon anyway, can't vouch for Dublin. Food is on a par with Australasia, fruit and vege a little more expensive, but averages out the same. Utilities a little more expensive, but a better choice of broadband and satellite. Cars are very expensive, but you are buying and selling in the same market, so your depreciation is the same as at home. The only real killer is the tax on cars. You are taxed on the size of your engine, so if you want a SUV like home, expect to pay 2000 Euro a year just for registration. Insurance is also very expensive.

Work Environment - the guys/gals in the ops room are all very friendly and welcoming. First class training. Can't vouch for management as haven't had any dealings there yet.

Weather - It rains, sure, but there is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothing. Been lovely here in the West the last week too.

Compared to the Middle East - There is no comparison. It's apples and oranges. It all comes down to lifestyle choice...ie do you want a lifestyle or money? Of the 5 expats in Shannon, 4 are ex-Middle East, that must count for something?

[aqua27]

We have seen the worse management, the management that made terrorist out of innocent controllers. I think ATCO community is more bounded and loyal to the Job than the organizations. I assure you that we will be part of you and will never work against with fellow controllers

[ock1f]

What ^^^^^ ???????????

Very good thread this espeacially the last couple of pages. It gives a very good and honest idea of the good and the bad of both the IAA and Ireland Inc.

In general if you want to come and focus on doing your job then you have no worries. Stick with your new colleagues. On a day to day basis working is fine. As i have stated before we go in,do our thing and go home. The problems that have arisen have eminated in their entirety from further up the food chain.

Losing touch with what your core business is and focusing on extracting the absolute maximum from your bottom line have led to a management team that have lost sight of the big picture and the fact that it is the intangable benefits that make a good company and a good product. The IAA is one of the biggest ATC providers in europe and for such a large ANSP we charge the lowest unit rate or close to it every year. We have a good business and we should keep it that way.

Perhaps the last few months may have gradually opened up their eyes to the fact that by turning the IAA into the rIAAnair of ATC by just screwing with your main asset (us-the very flexible,hardworking and compliant staff) is not the way to build a sustainable business. I hope that lessons are learned from the last few years and we are never backed into a corner where we have to fight in order to make people see sense and reality.I Hope....................

Anyway rant over

To all the new arrivals welcome and thanks for coming. It does take guts to leave the comfort zone and head off. Im sure you will be welcomed and may even like the place.......but not the f"$%*ing weather!

[itsnotme]

Any Sheilas coming our way?

[SupaMegaFugly]

Fot anyone coming to Dublin or thinking about it.
YouTube - It's a Beautiful Day for Dublin (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WVv0Nn12Jog)

[west atc]

Any Sheilas coming our way?

Only the wives of the controllers coming over.... :}

[itsnotme]

I was going to post this question but it's probably not such a good idea.
YouTube - Kevin Bloody Wilson-Do ya **** on 1st dates (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KBq5Qo2QhTI)

[nob666]

Kevin "bloody" wilson is why I'm leaving.

In response to the question, no generally because

YouTube - Dead Kennedys: Too Drunk To **** - Finland 1981 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgtKM0E3bKc)

and while we are trading in cultural cliches..

YouTube - Danny Boy - Foster & Allen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6fMwCajTD4)

[itsnotme]

They sell Viagra here in holy Ireland, you know. Although, being a Foster and Allen fan, you'd probably take them just to stop you from falling out of the bed. :ok:
Here's one for you and the rest of the returning sons.
YouTube - Fields of Athenry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJG3mHp8lAs)
this is what you'll need it for
YouTube - Munster V Sale - Fields of Athenry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJMf6XBS4H8)

[nob666]

Thank you for the education. Magnificent. Makes Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi
rather flaccid by comparison.

It is one of many reasons for us coming over...

I will be in Dublin from the 22nd of Oct, if anyone would like a drink feel free to pm me.

[itsnotme]

Makes Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi
rather flaccid by comparison.

I'm sure you'll give a heartfelt rendition of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58vujCL2dJI),next January 26th in Dublin.
Oh ! not to mention this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22gszljklc)

[nob666]

Heartfelt indeed, but will probably sound like this,

YouTube - Tom Waits Waltzing Matilda live 1977 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrkThaBWa5c)

and I'm more partial to this version of the latter,

YouTube - The Pogues - And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda (LIVE!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKj2ZPEY7pY)

and this would get me homesick as well

YouTube - Warumpi Band : My Island Home (1987) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN-UHdYN_yo)

I worked my last shift with lipservices this morning. 26 years, most of my coworkers are more like family,

this is for them....

YouTube - GOLDEN EARRING Radar Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PLsoFFEHqo)

[itsnotme]

We'll have you converted in no time. Just like this bloke. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsFG78nJR0E)
and you can leave this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mg8m49vSM8) ****e (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5W2a71SQFE) behind (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQnrY5V-rY)ya .
Here's one for the plane. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k04KzgYRKrE)
Looks like we're soon to become the
IAA ( Irish Australian Association):ok:

[Quokka]

Looks like we're soon to become the
IAA ( Irish Australian Association)

No need... it's just some of the Irish that were sent to the penal colonies returning home. ;)

[left bass]

The Most Important Aussie Band.

And presciently, they foretold the IAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqLTCemBwt8) in 1976...

[SupaMegaFugly]

:ugh: I hope my fellow countrymen(sheilas) put in a better performance than this ****e (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTog_cbfH-g)in Perth on 24th and 31st, otherwise they can stay Downunda and waltz their Matilda arses off !!.

[SupaMegaFugly]

Ireland 45 Australia 44.

All to play for next week.:ok:

[SupaMegaFugly]

Nothing like an Australian greeting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLnAXVpi00).who needs Barry Hall?
see you next year in Dublin.:ouch::ok:

[aqua27]

Hi everybody,

Finally landed in Ireland. Lots of things have been discussed about working here. I would like to put it on record that it is good place to work because here you will be working with really good people. After all money is not everything ( although it is not bad either), you feel being welcomed and are treated with friendly gestures.
Weather may be wet , windy and cold but people are warm.
For those who have offers from IAA, dont hesistate to come.
cheers:ok:

[IKEANO]

you feel being welcomed and are treated with friendly gestures
windy and cold but the people are WARM. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPc41f3EfmQ)

[LEBB]

I can corroborate after 7 years with them best asset in the IAA are the people working inside. Very good and hard working professionals that keep running the business and the company safely and efficiently. Is definitely a very good company to be working for. I wish I could say the same about the weather cause here is veryveryvery :cool::cool::cool:.

[Lady-ATC]

G`day guys!I am considering whether to apply for a job to IAA.Can anyone tell me if there are any vacancies or any recruitment process for ACC/R?And,where do they have ACC?in Dublin?Elsewhere?

[Red_All_Over]

Yes, still looking for Controllers at Dublin, not sure about Shannon . Area or Approach ratings preferable. Three Aussies here already. Make your mind up soon though as training plan being prepared for the spring. Best of luck.

[thorisgod]

Letter from the chief executive in the post..

1st half of national wage agreement(NWA) due since 1st July not to be paid till 31st December.:{

2nd half due 1st Jan 2009 to be postponed till 1st Jan 2010 due to pay freeze for 2009!:uhoh:

However managements pay increase (don't think its covered in the NWA) due since 1st Jan 2008 to only be postponed to 30th June 2008:suspect:

commendably CE waiving 10% during pay freeze.:D

New SCP(8) up for debate.:ugh:

Are they allowed bring in a pay freeze while NWA ongoing?
Didn't they have to brought to court to get the last one?

IAA employees you are the weakest link

[alwaysmovin]

And I guarantee the next step will be a new roster......they have been looking at other service providers rosters of late.... because the IAA have a big problem with sick leave and want to see how other units manage it...the reason given was because ATCOS are all going sick so other ATCOS can get a call in and make extra money........
You'll never guess what big mouth eejit they sent to get the information either....probably because he is f..k all use for anything else....and even after demotion still gets a big fat management salary.....

[IKEANO]

the rooster big mouth eejithe is f..k all use for anything else....and even after demotion still gets a big fat management salary.
Think you mean ''TURKEY''

[IRLATCO]

A new thread warranted perhaps?

[IKEANO]

sorry. i meant .... ''COCK''

[DFC]

:D

?


Regards,

DFC

[ock1f]

By 'COCK' i take it you are also refering to the poster above me too :ok:

need i say anymore :}

[west atc]

To get this thread back on topic, a word of warning for those that are considering joining the IAA as a direct entry, make sure you have a back up plan.

Apparently, the current course in Dublin lost two of its members today and only have 2 left out of the 5 that started.

From what I’ve heard, the course is not impossible just very hard work so if you are on the next course or applying for a position, if you haven’t got experience with busy traffic, be ready to work very hard.

[Jat Jet]

Hi,
What was the reason of the drop outs? Is the training difficult or they do not need more people. I think it is unfair on part of IAA to first call ATCO and then send them as Nothing:sad:. How is course going on in Shannon? I have heard people are nice there ( pls go up few steps). I am simply confused by what actually IAA is looking for?:ugh:

[jackl]

Where are the union on this issue .Not a word heard since this latest briefing from IAA. Surely as a company in profit they cannot do this without consultation . It galls me to think that we are back in the wars again so soon after the last dispute . Have these people(management) learned nothing . Its time to stand up again and not accept this. Wake up IMPACT . this is what we pay you for .

Ps . Management bonuses are still being paid !!!!!!!

[Lady-ATC]

What`s the use of calling people,paying all that fees for them and send them back?Don`t think management gets pleasure of that-there must have been some other reasons...:ooh:

[west atc]

Hi,
What was the reason of the drop outs? Is the training difficult or they do not need more people. I think it is unfair on part of IAA to first call ATCO and then send them as Nothing. How is course going on in Shannon? I have heard people are nice there ( pls go up few steps). I am simply confused by what actually IAA is looking for?

What`s the use of calling people,paying all that fees for them and send them back?Don`t think management gets pleasure of that-there must have been some other reasons...

The people who have not completed the course have failed because from what I have heard, the course is very demanding.

They have not been sent home, just failed to make the required standard.

As I said, if you have accepted a job in Dublin with the IAA, make sure you are prepared to work hard and have experience with busy traffic.

[DFC]

All staffing requirements will be re-evaluated in March 2009 having regard to traffic/economic conditions at that time.

Never mind Aer Lingus - Give MOL 51% of the IAA.

At least he is propbably looking further ahead than next March.

€30.5 million worth of projects that don't impact on safety or operations have been cancelled.

If the money is not for safety or operations - the whole rationalle of the IAA and what the customers pay for then that is a lot of early pay-offs!

How many called in sick because they had a fried Breakfast last Sunday? :D

Hint - The answer is not zero :ugh:

Regards,

DFC

[45 before POL]

Out of curiosity, and a slant from this thread...what is the pay/pension in comparison to nats across the water like? And the working conditions?
Love ireland and would move if conditions right can anyone tell me if it worth it? Thanks

[alwaysmovin]

45 before pol...I would't be applying now with what has just been unveiled by the very creative IAA accountants!!

Surely if the back pay was to be paid on 1st Jan it would have been released from the IAA bank A/c in 2007 so it would come under the 2007 financial year and would be already accounted for in terms of cost......so obviously they are just using it as an excuse to keep the money in their accounts for another year...something they are good at!!! According to their published figures the movements in all the money making sectors are up this year!!!!:=

Surely if the cuts were to benefit the customer they would also announce a cut in user charges and the managment would not still be getting bonuses!!

I fully support the fact that the aviation industry is facing tough times and changes have to be made/ costs have to be cut in order to benefit the airlines... but surely the first thing to go should be managment bonuses and not money which has already been promised to the people who have already done the work!!!

[beamwidth]

Nice to see that DFC has returned hungry for disinformation.


DONT FEED THE TROLL