No Expats in India beyond July 2010 [Archive]

B737NG

4th Jun 2008, 13:25

DGCA want to put pressure on all Indian Airlines to hire more Indian F/O´s. Terminate all Expat Pilots who work there for 4 year or 31. July 2010 whatever is EARLIER. How? Not give any validation anymore. Why ? to protect the Indian Pilots who spend lot´s of money getting a CPL and having difficulties to find a job. Indian Airlines are required to submit a report to the DGCA how they induct more Indian and reduce the number of Expats, Captains and First Officers. Some Airlines found it cheaper to hire a Type Rated F/O with experience instead of hiring a Indian Pilot of the street and train him to operate. With the battle for passenger and market shares versus the rising fuel costs not too surprising. Market forces are valid, everywhere on the Globe despite the wishes for regulatory Authorities. No Pilots who operate the planes means no revenue and no profit, all Jobs are lost. For the Expats and the national Pilots in any Country.

Indian DGCA states that about 4.500 Indian Pilots are working together with about 1.000 Expat Pilots and that number has to be reduced in the favour of more Indian Pilots. A operator who want to keep a Expat beyond 31. July 2010 will face severe difficulties from the DGCA on a case by case decision.

From June this year on the DGCA threatened the Airlines with the first step: Not to renew the Validation for foreign F/O´s anymore but the Airlines could plea for some more time but not too much. 4 Months to get a Indian F/O type rated is enough means the DGCA. How much time they think that it takes to upgrade them? Watch the local Newspaper they are watching the issue closely..........

Fly safe and land happy

NG

Taildragger67

5th Jun 2008, 10:17

77.Shailesh,

Based on your comment, next time I am in India and fly with an Indian carrier I will demand to know the PIC's hours and time on type.

I will not fly with an inexperienced crew and I will not let my family fly with an inexperienced crew. I trust my life to the crew and expect them to be professionals, just as I would trust a surgeon operating on me to be suitably qualified.

This is not a race issue (unless you choose to make it one), it is purely about operational safety. By the time a PIC flying an aircraft on which I am a passenger is heading into a monsoon storm at Mumbai or where ever, I expect them to have seen it many times before from the RHS under the guidance of someone who's seen it even more times.

Indonesian airlines (and other countries' airlines) have been banned from the EU due to operational deficiencies and lack of sufficient regulatory oversight; it can happen. Stuffing the place with inexperienced pilots will put those pilots in positions they are not equipped to handle and the consequences are easily foreseeable, and all too painful for those behind the reinforced door and those they leave behind.

Get off your India-vs-the world soap-box, this is not about race, it's about safety.

No one is impugning India's place in the world as an economic or political power - a strong India is good for the developed world just as it's good for Indians - but if India wants to play in the premier league, it has to learn to play by the premier league's rules - ie. opening up and not being so capricious in decision-making - and stop relying on protections available to those in the lower divisions.

Lydia Dustbin

5th Jun 2008, 10:52

Mods

These posts are on a thread (longer) of the same name on JetBlast.

Jazbag

5th Jun 2008, 10:57

I doubt it will happen... it seems this is a means to show that the DGCA is trying to safeguard the interests of its ever burgeoning ranks of new unemployed CPL holders.

Methinks TD is trying to make it an issue. But remember "flying hours only does not a good pilot make". Why not ask for age and IQ level too? Or maybe marks in the previous refresher?

While I am no great fan of DGCA it doesnt solve the problem by adopting knee jerk reactions.

Lydia Dustbin

5th Jun 2008, 11:01

And why are they unemployed? Because they are at the bottom of the experience list!

Jazbag

5th Jun 2008, 11:22

Lydia

The reason they are unemployed is that the numbers are too large for the aviation industry to absorb. A little bird told me that there are in the region of 300-400 new CPLs being issued every month! All airlines can on an average absorb about 150 in a year!

There are in the region of 1500 applicants for ten jobs inthe RHS. Alas! The good times are not so good anymore.... Many of those refused are from very influential families who thought they had it made when they went for training.

JB

Lydia Dustbin

5th Jun 2008, 11:52

Jazbag

So there we have it. The problem is that the training schools are going completely unregulated. It is a cap on the throughput of the training schools that should be initiated. What happens after you get rid of all the expat pilots? Jobs for 1000 (although it should not be, as many expats are captains), and India is still training 6000 Cpls a year. I don't suppose there are people within DGCA that have financial interests in the training schools are there?

You make it even more clear that the DGCA and the government are acting because Many of those refused are from very influential families who thought they had it made when they went for training. You will find that the term sympathy comes between s**t and Syphilis in the dictionary.

Taildragger67

5th Jun 2008, 12:02

Jazbag,

I am in no position to make it an issue, so I won't waste my time or energy.

However it becomes an issue when some clown reckons they can put inexperienced pilots in charge of large capital assets and peoples' lives.

I have no issue with a pilot's age. I do have an issue when they possibly taking charge of things they shouldn't be. I was basically taking issue with specific points raised by an earlier poster (since moved or erased).

NoJoke

5th Jun 2008, 12:18

Do you guys think these rulings will eventually affect pilots based overseas? I appreciate people would need the right of abode to be based overseas i.e. UK. However if Indian crew are based overseas on a temporary basis would that not remove the need for expats even further?

Lydia Dustbin

5th Jun 2008, 13:09

Can this thread be merged with the thread on JB?

Jazbag

6th Jun 2008, 05:31

Lydia

As you said "unregulated".... The CPL students are going overseas mainly in the US, Aus, NZ and Phillipines. The DGCA cannot control who desires to fly and who doesn't. Here it is the media which had a part to play in this and published articles that gave a misleading impression that jobs were available for the taking. I overheard that the DGCA are now trying to advise students not to waste money in aviation.

Add to all this the fuel price escalation and we have a recipe for disaster.

TD

India is not the only country to put a fresh CPL with type rating on the RHS. The same happens in Europe. Being a trainer I assure you that with the current glut of freshers "generally" the brightest are being taken for this task. No airline wants to have a misfit behind the controls. In addition being a CRMI we insist on assertiveness, which today's generation does not lack.

Regarding the expat pilots based abroad it will probably have an effect in the next few years.... So if you get a chance to move to one of the legacy careers.. maybe you should explore it.

JB

bad_attitude

6th Jun 2008, 10:19

good post Jazbag! :ok:

77.shailesh

6th Jun 2008, 10:46

So what do u think the Pilots in Abroad have experience from childhood ,I am sorry to say this Are u from an airline or not but everybody learns from basic no one in this world is Top gun & for ur kind information The accident rates & safety u talk about , We have the least accidents in our country & the accidents like 1 or 2 we had was from an Ex-pat who dont know simple English ( intonation's/syllable ) so Please wish When we go to abroad :confused: we don't what the pilot is talking on the P.A. Please learn English

sleeper

6th Jun 2008, 11:15

77.shailesh.

Qoute: "Please learn English " unquote

:) Maybe that applies to you to.

DesiPilot

6th Jun 2008, 12:32

Shailesh,

I second Sleeper its time for you to go back and work on your English a little bit more.

Back to the thread, you are missing the bigger picture. Yes, no one is a born aviator, everyone has to work on their experience. You think getting rid off the expats will solve the problem for you? Most of the expats in India are working as Captain, many of them as TRI/TRE. You have no idea what it takes to become a CA/TRI/TRE. So just to give you a very simple answer, kicking the Expats out is not going to solve your problem. You are looking for a start up job and as it is there are a lot of unemployed ab-initios out there.

So if you want a job study hard, change your attitude, appear for exams and pass it, than you may have a chance. The longer you wait the less chance you have of finding job in India.

Ohh the accident numbers means nothing. Its the accident rates that count. India has less number of accidents but we also have less number of take offs and landings. Just to give you an example the regional airlines I was working for in USA had more planes and pilots than Indigo, Kingifisher, Go, Spice and Sahara put together. Perhaps you can add half of Indian or Jet in the list as well. So less take off and landings usually equate to less accidents.

Good luck with your job search.

:) DesiPilot

Lydia Dustbin

6th Jun 2008, 14:20

Shailesh

I refer to my previous post and endorse the comments of the other posters, you need to improve your English. If you have an ICAO level 4 ticket now, then i don't know how

you say

We have the least accidents in our country

As Desipilot stated, that is difficult to quantify with commercial flying rates, however, if you look at the military, whose flying rates can be compared with other military organisations world wide, then India is near the top of the list for accident rates.

White Knight

6th Jun 2008, 18:37

Yeah yeah shailesh, suppose you're one of the ones that think India's a first world country too:hmm:

Well, based on my experience - and visits - I wouldn't even rate most of it as 3rd world. Not that I don't enjoy visiting, and the people are very charming. However the country is still in the stoneage........... Get with the beat Bhaggy.

fleigle

6th Jun 2008, 20:18

You tell 'em buddy, and how about at the same time you ground all of those western dog aircraft and fly your fantastic HAI products.!!! :mad:

White Knight

7th Jun 2008, 04:08

Well shivamjoshi - guess we could say the same about the many indians in the uk too - kick 'em out and all that. It's ok then as far as you're concerned to work everywhere else on the face of the planet but you don't like expats in india.... Grow up sonny:ugh:

sweetie76

7th Jun 2008, 12:06

not to mention the thousands of consultants, doctors, resaurateurs......

jetsreams

7th Jun 2008, 12:49

In my airline expats get 9 days off every month in addition to time off whereas,I being an Indian get only 3 days of time off after a ten day slip.I wonder if BA or Lufthansa would hire me under such terms and treat their own nationals so shabbily !

White Knight

7th Jun 2008, 17:21

Indeed it is figurof8... Bl00dy nice it is too. However, if the Indians are so keen to come to good old Blighty, then why can't they put up with expats over there??
Mmmm, yep, double standards methinks.... But that's how it works over on the subcontinent. No place for 'bleeding hearts', believe me...

powerstall

7th Jun 2008, 18:48

Expats Vs Indians
In my airline expats get 9 days off every month in addition to time off whereas,I being an Indian get only 3 days of time off after a ten day slip.I wonder if BA or Lufthansa would hire me under such terms and treat their own nationals so shabbily !

In some parts of this world, pilots are treated as professionals and with all due respect.... in the other parts,.... well... ....nuff said.... :suspect:

Jazbag

8th Jun 2008, 08:24

wind up and waste of time. suggest mods can close the thread!!:bored:

radical_100

8th Jun 2008, 09:50

@JazBag, I second your opinion that this is a recipe for disaster.

And DGCA certainly can't control who wants to fly and who doesn't. And I don't see why they want to act godfather to all the Indian CPLs. It isn't their (or the airlines') fault that several thousand 18-yr olds are misguided into the "quick-money" program that promises them a CPL within 5 months.

I know people who have completed their CPL in 3 months from "Straight & Level". Add 2 more months for a 320 rating and you are in the right seat with just 5 months more experience than the businessman in first class who's sipping away his champagne.

They should just give airlines their own time to come up with profits of some sort, so they can then eventually favour Indians over expats once they have enough equally qualified Indians. If there were enough qualified Indians in the first place, then the airlines would certainly have preferred them.

I'm just waiting to see what happens when the corporate sector opens up a bit more in India, there might be more jobs out there then. Unfortunately, the "build up instructor time after CPL" concept doesn't work in India at all.

powerstall

8th Jun 2008, 14:01

.....I'm just waiting to see what happens when the corporate sector opens up a bit more in India, there might be more jobs out there then. Unfortunately, the "build up instructor time after CPL" concept doesn't work in India at all.

i believe so, they should realize that proper experience well earned will give them a better chance of getting in the line, I think the common thinking is " i already have my CPL, where's my new shiny jet and tons of money."
but they should understand that it doesn't work that way. It's not as easy as sitting on a desk and fiddling with a laptop, it's much much more than that. :oh:

G-STAL

8th Jun 2008, 14:29

Simply put - Britain didn't invade india, it bought it (because india sold it). Most importantly we bought it because your leadership at the time would have sold it to Napoleon who would have in turn threatened Britain's interests.

Should i remind you about India's attempts to dominate the malay penisula years a couple of thousand years ago coverting them all to hindu!!

This is a flying forum - if you want to vent - write to the Mumbai times!!

Matoki

8th Jun 2008, 17:39

There must not be many places in the world where you don't find an Indian working, so for India to close the door on expats can only lead to resentment .

niceneasy

8th Jun 2008, 22:07

"I will not fly with an inexperienced crew and I will not let my family fly with an inexperienced crew. I trust my life to the crew and expect them to be professionals, just as I would trust a surgeon operating on me to be suitably qualified".

Well said Taildragger67. My husband (who has flown for a small handful of airlines) would say "If you hear the Captain's name is so-and-so, grab your bag and get off", while my daughter and I sub-loaded here and there. No, not a race issue either, nor airline issue for that matter (these fellows were white men and former colleagues). They simply were not "safe". And some of them had been at the helm for decades.

When I was a Purser for many years, one skipper could not remember my name, despite having flown with him at least twice a week for many years. Each time for him it was like the first time we met. I feigned illness at sign on once when the weather at our destination was absolute rubbish. I wasn't trusting my life with a ditherer. No way.

powerstall

9th Jun 2008, 02:01

There must not be many places in the world where you don't find an Indian working, so for India to close the door on expats can only lead to resentment .

Can't argue with that, they seem to be in every corner of the world and even in the oddest places. :ooh:

casper63

9th Jun 2008, 04:01

G-STAL
Does your well washed brain thinks that Saddam sold Iraq to USA too?

Allendilu

9th Jun 2008, 04:59

Well niceneasy;

I didn't think it was ethical for your husband to say don't fly with so and so,nor was it for you to call in sick or whatever just because you thought someone's ability as a pilot is directly proportional to remembering someone's name.

I agree that we have some not so good pilots in the industry,but I don't think that it is appropriate to sum up.

You said that it has nothing to do with race,creed,color what ever you may call it...But again would we say "no problem" it there was no problem at all.

Keep listining to the PA.

vrlsktry

9th Jun 2008, 05:28

There's no reason to be un-necessarily emotional over this issue.

Foreign or expat pilots clearly cannot expect it to be their right to fly in India (for Indian operators). Ultimately, it is the Indian authorities that have the final say on this, and their sovereignity.

There seem to be plenty of bright youngsters in India who have the qualification but not the hours for the right seat. Competence and aptitude is not the issue here. These young boys and girls do have to start somewhere to build experience.

If indeed the Indian authorities stick to this 2010 deadline, it gives plenty of time to operators to hire enough amount of relatively inexperienced pilots and bring them upto required hours. This can be done without compromising the safety.

India is not an Emirate, and one cannot expect flying jobs to be pledged to expats because Indians would certainly desire the jobs for their own billion or more citizens!

hard_landing

9th Jun 2008, 08:47

"you'll have to be born in a blood thirsty imperialist country so as to be able to boast about your country's status. How can India match the disgusting war mongering posture of the so called "first world countries?" She cannot. Therefore she has been condemned to be worse than a third world country. So, better prod your government to invade a peaceful and prosperous country and make your country rich with dirty money just like Britain did to India some 250 years ago and like US has done to Iraq recently."

Haven't India and Pakistan been at war for decades over who "owns" a piece of land?

I met a few Indian guys out in the States who were going through their CPL training. They were all from influential families, which is where these new rules are coming from. However, the people that have set up the airlines are hugely influential too....money talks, as they say. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of compromise was reached

Jazbag

9th Jun 2008, 09:10

GSTAL

Where did u learn your history from? Hope your technical knowledge is better than that!

Hinduism and Buddhism never spread due to any invasion or annexation. It was because international students learned the philosophies or ways of life from world famous Universities like Pataliputra etc and carried it back with them... Much like western countries practise and preach yoga and ISKON in todays era. To give it a level of authenticity they quote Hindu gurus... If you think like a typical westerner than you may call this"world domination" :rolleyes:

But apologies I do not wish to sidetrack the main issue here....

kk pilot

9th Jun 2008, 10:21

vrlsktry

Your comments regarding the "bright youngster supply in India" and "required experience can be gained " is by someone who obviously never sat in the LH seat of a commercial airliner.

The world's aviation environment is not the place to resort to nationalism at the expense of safety and common sense.

If you truly want to keep this subject unemotional - put the bulls**t to rest and admit the truth - India came to the party very late and unless they want to find themselves where Korea found itself in the 90's, they had better crawl before they walk before they run.

niceneasy

9th Jun 2008, 10:40

Well Al, I am flattered that you joined PPRUNE to reply to my post. When hubby tells me "don't fly with so and so", he is saying that he doesn't want his wife and kid on a plane on a dark, cold, winter night, over water with cr@p weather and/or serious mechanical problem that is flown by a goose. And yes, they are out there. And re: my unethical nature, no, and perhaps I should have elaborated, this guy dithered at the R1 door as to whether he should turn left or right to get to the flight deck, five minutes to decide on chicken or fish and HE WAS ASLEEP when the OTHER PILOT was on controlled rest - really quite past it. And no, I didn't report him or his butt would have been out the door. HIS f/o offsiders would constantly roll their eyes at his "work" and say that they were "flying solo" when right handing this guy. So excuse me for believing in a little self preservation.

G-STAL

9th Jun 2008, 11:46

G-STAL
Does your well washed brain thinks that Saddam sold Iraq to USA too?

Completely different!!

K2SkyRider

9th Jun 2008, 15:22

I can't believe the tone of this thread. People are really missing the point. It's not about kicking out expat pilots from India because of Xenophobia - India is and always has been one of the most diverse countries in the World, home to people of all races and religious beliefs. It is simple economics - the Indian govt. is trying to focus on employing it's citizens rather than paying through the nose for foreigners.

Maybe they are not going about it the right way, but the reasons behind this decision have been misinterpreted on this thread.

Why bash Indians for travelling the World and making other countries their home? Haven't millions of Westerners had this privilege for hundreds of years? Perhaps people resent the fact that India is an emerging nation with a bright future.

A couple of facts for info:

1. Indian doctors who want to work in the UK can only be considered for a job if no other EU applicant can fill the slot, even if they are more qualified/suitable for the job. This happened overnight. Vis-a-vis expat Pilots in India, at least there is some discussion and a flexible deadline.

2. The India-Pakistan wars are a direct result of the British Raj, as no boundaries were agreed upon on the 15th Aug 1947 when India gained independence.

Maybe we can have a more positive discussion by suggesting a way forward. If expat pilots really love India and want to stay long term, why not become a citizen? Then you won't have to worry about being kicked out.

:ok:

hard_landing

9th Jun 2008, 16:27

The Indo-Pakistan wars have been going on, under various names, since the 1300's when the Muslim Sultans of Kashmir persecuted the Hindus, right up to the 1800's when Sihk armies invaded and conquered Kashmir. Trying to blame it on the debarkle of 1947 isn't entirely accurate! My late grandfather was born in India and witnessed first hand the problems caused in 1947.

Anyway, the Indian Government is doing what any Government would do, trying to protect it's own workforce & therefore economy. However, it could have gone about it a different way, as the present course of action could bite them on the arse when flights are cancelled or worse!

jai6638

9th Jun 2008, 17:32

There must not be many places in the world where you don't find an Indian working, so for India to close the door on expats can only lead to resentment .

eh? India is only closing the door to expats in the field of aviation. Moreover, the Indians working abroad are contributing to the respective economics of the countries in which they reside. Its not like they are mooching off resources.. Countries like US do not welcome Indian/foreign pilots either so not sure why there should be resentment. I agree that this decision is not well thought-out but the Indian government reserves the right to do what it needs to do for the well being of its citizens.

Simply put - Britain didn't invade india, it bought it (because india sold it). Most importantly we bought it because your leadership at the time would have sold it to Napoleon who would have in turn threatened Britain's interests.

Not sure what this post is a response to but I'd like to comment that British treatment of the South Asians left much to be desired and the stories of the British use of the Divide and Rule policy do not paint a very rosy picture of British rule. I'd compare the British occupation of India as being the same as the US occupation of Iraq..

hard_landing

9th Jun 2008, 18:09

British rule in India cannot be compared to the US in Iraq!! Before British rule, India was split into warring Kingdoms ruled by Moghuls and Sultans that decided on life and death of the people that lived on their lands, not dissimilar to medieval Europe and Pre-revolution Russia, living in surfdom. For all it's faults the British rule did establish things like modern infrastructure, education, governance, administration, judiciary and healthcare. One famous local custom stopped by the British was the burning of widows on their dead husbands funeral pyre!

Sorry for going off thread but felt I had to say something in response. My grandfather would be turning in his grave if I didn't!

jai6638

9th Jun 2008, 19:03

Before British rule, India was split into warring Kingdoms ruled by Moghuls and Sultans that decided on life and death of the people that lived on their lands, not dissimilar to medieval Europe and Pre-revolution Russia, living in surfdom.

Not sure how that justifies British atrocities such as the Jallianwala Bagh massacre ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre) ..

For all it's faults the British rule did establish things like modern infrastructure, education, governance, administration, judiciary and healthcare

While these institutions were setup, they were done so with ulterior motives. Universities were set up so as to impart Western Education and morals to the Indian youth to prevent anti-British sentiment. There were other unfair laws that were also practiced.

To be fair, it takes two to tango. The Indians were also partly at fault for allowing themselves to be manipulated and therefore, the blame cannot be placed completley on the British. I guess the past is the past so there is no point crying over spilled milk. What goes around comes around..

Sorry for going off thread but felt I had to say something in response. My grandfather would be turning in his grave if I didn't!

I apologize for going off topic too. If I didn't respond, I feel like I would be doing a disservice to the various freedom fighters and people who gave their lives to the Indian freedom struggle..

Cheers!

perceval

9th Jun 2008, 19:50

Totally sorry to barge in but I would like a straight clarification . I looked the DGCA website over and could not find anything about those new rules regarding foreign validations or employment .
Can you or can you not apply for a F/O position right now ? (having the min.required of course ?) say with Indigo , GoAir or Kingfisher ?
Thanks for that .

Nashers

9th Jun 2008, 20:27

this thread seems to be going a bit off track with a few people getting very spiteful if not boarderline racist.

at the end of the day whichever country you go to people will alwase favour "their own" to and outsider. look at an airline like BA, they have more WHITE pilots but no one is saying anything. forget the airline industry all together, in every aspect of working anywhere int he world employers will alwase favour people from their own country.

i myself am an indian living in the UK and have done a good few different jobs while studying and training.let me tell you there is most deffinatly partiality everywhere. ive lived in other coutries as well and guess what same thing with their "locals" as well.

saying that however, IF the indian airlines are putting pilots that dont even have the ink dry on their licences into a left hand seat, that is wrong. however i do now think that is the case. what i see is a country which is doing what any other country would do- have its intrests come first.

by the way Hard_Landing:- i dont see how the indo pakistan war has being going on since the 1300's as pakistan only came on the map in 1947 when the british used the old divide and rule techniqe. i would advise you to keep your views about India history to youself as it has no relivance to this thread.

hard_landing

9th Jun 2008, 21:47

I agree. Totally off track. Sorry chaps.:ok:

I must clear up one point. The Indo-Pakistan war over disputed land in Kashmir has been a war between the same FACTIONS for hundreds of years. Kashmir has been disputed since the 1300's

Anyway, sorry again chaps...must try to stay on track in future :}:ok:

Duck Rogers

9th Jun 2008, 22:26

Fascinating though this is I think everyone has had a chance to have their Googled/Wikipedia say.

Back on topic please.

astronaute

10th Jun 2008, 10:16

"at the end of the day whichever country you go to people will alwase favour "their own" to and outsider".

Wrong ! In Europe (U.E.) our :mad: gvt favour the outsider againts the locals ! :ugh:

B737NG

11th Jun 2008, 09:40

Dear Members of a distinguished (disguised??)Industry!

I am stunned by the tone that is used in this thread! I had two options in 1996: Stay in my Country and flying for sick outfits after my Airline went down the drain and owed me more then 3 month´s salary or going somewhere else where I was welcomed to fill a gap and fly a plane. I did not expact that they fall in love with me instantly. "We" found common ground in the cockpit and during the layover times, my Co-workers educated me about the History of the Country and we went along well. Some of them are still exchanging E-Mails with me after 11 Years. Later I went to the North and had a Year theire. Nice People, we did not see us as a Competition, we added to each other, where flying planes, making jokes and had a good time. Then another Culture shock in Far East. Knew it would be diffucult but it worked and the Airline would not fly anymore without Expats at all. Some of the F/O´s I was flying there are now Chief-Pilots and in key positions within the structure of that outfit. I was not in love with them and they where not in love with me but we did our job and flew Airplanes 24/7. Politics where heavily around there but all Expats tried to avoid it as much as possible. The Locals could do what they want, we are there to fill a Gap and without Foreign workers the whole country would not develop as quick as it would be required. There are Asians working in USA and Europe why? because they are needed, simple. Why are Indians working all over the World? Because there is a Job that needs to be done and whoever is applying for it get´s it. Today it is a Indian...if he decides to leave who is filling his position? who knows. As a Company you have a slot, seat, position or anything to fill to keep the business going and make profit.

The tone used here freigthens me, seriously. I thought I am tolerant enough and respect Humans as they are, no matter of Race or Colour. What I am learning here is in some parts disgusting for me, between the lines I read so much of hate. We discussing here the future of people and the fate of the Families who´s Moneymaker(mostly the Father) is facing the question: How can I put food on the family table beyond 2010, how can I provide shelter to my Family by keeping the House and the Home?. Planning now the Exit from India and looking somewhere else. Back at home ? maybe... Makes that a Indian happy, please feel free to do so but we are all in the same Boat more or less. By the way I have no Wife and no Children to feed but many other people have and I share my thought´s towards them. My Co-Workers are coming from all Continents and I care about them, White, Black, Yellow and Indians. I would be a happy Man if you go out on the Street in Callicut or Chennai and help the people on the Street to reduce the daily struggle. Care to give them a helping hand and look at the poorest of the poor. Take the only half of the effort you use here to accuse and they would thank you and the World, India belongs to it as well, would be a better place. Jealousy would be reduced and a filled stomach at the end of the day would give some peace and a good night sleep to the ones in need. If some of you would really dare care for them with the same enthusiasm then you battle here then some of you could earn my respect, as I saight in the beginning I am shocked by the tone used here............

Fly safe and land happy

NG

vrlsktry

13th Jun 2008, 15:36

kk pilot, we are in absolute agreement that safety is paramount in aviation and should never be compromized. That is why, if you studied the aviation scene in India, you'd realize that the quality, competence or relative inexperience of some pilots is a total non-issue.
The real issues are the ATC, airport perimeter security and so on, and there's only so much a pilot -low hours or experienced- can do about these issues, since we all operate as co-ordinated and cooperative teams to keep the planes flying.

xxxxx

On some other issues members have raised:

1. The issue of Indian workers moving to other places in west for work, and non-Indians moving to India has more to do with Internaional trade and WTO politics than we realize. All nations bargain hard and seek concessions they think will be in their best interests. It is very much a give and take exercise, and no favors are granted.

Since none here have likely studied the relevant documents, we do not know what India gave up in return for the privilige of allowing a few thousand Indian citizens to emigrate to western countries. Equally, we also do not know what priviliges other countries have earned in this bargain, amongst others.

2. Secondly, whether it is an Indian worker moving to west or someone from west moving to India, one should always consider it a privilige to be able to move to a foriegn country and have the ability to gain emplyment. Not some kind of right right.
Trying to disguise one's insecurity about future career prospects by sniping on safety issues is poor form, even though it might allow some people to feel better about themselves in short term.

I don't entertain the opinion that the healthcare in United Kingdom would fall apart totally and people will start dying on the streets just because some Indian doctors and nursing staff have been told to return to India. Or the computer industry would stagnate if Indian workers are barred from working in US.

Many expatriate workers have got jobs in the aviation industry in India, a privilige for which they should be thankful. The same holds true for all Indian citizens who have gained employment in other nations. But when the times and policies change, one should be prepared to adapt and survive, rather than whine and try to wish away the sovereignty of host nations.
This is a "risk" that all of us who work in foreign countries take.