PPL Costs & Expected Duration

[Okavango]

Ok, thanks for everyones input on PPL questions. I've spoken to a few schools and I've now found one that seems good. Their package is competitive at £5500 all inclusive (exams, course material etc, 45hrs flight), though most importantly they seem a keen competent outfit. I think the landing fees are a rough estimate, it was ~£5000 not including them. However, one of the more expensive schools I spoke to said that I should budget for 60hrs (and this at their rate of £150/hr).

My question is, how many hours does it take Joe Average to pass, and if you have your PPL, how many hours did you take? I consider myself to be above average aptitude and was thinking 50hrs (as I know 45hrs is exceptional). It would be good to know that any school is providing effective training though at the moment it's hard to gauge.

Also, I'd be grateful to know general calendar durations for training. I know it's not unusual for people to take 18months-2yrs, though how quick can it be done (not down the intensive Florida route as I'll be working full time). As my job is relatively flexible, my thinking is I can fit in up to 4 flights a week (during summer hours), of which I'd expect 1/3 - 1/2 to be cancelled, plus one holiday week during a spell of good weather of maybe a flight a day if I'm lucky. Is it possible to gain your PPL in this way in 4-5 months or am I being unrealistic? Thanks again.

[PompeyPaul]

Hi,

Unfortunately I feel your question is going to lead to all sorts of finger pointing and "if you went solo in 10 hours then your school is irresponsible" type arguments.

You are also going to get lots of people posting, it's not about aptitude it's about the aircraft you learn in, the airspace around you, how often you fly, how lucky you are with wx etc.

It's true, there's lots of variables, yet I understand at the start of the PPL you need to know a cost and what to expect so all the hedging doesn't mean anything if you haven't even got a starting point.

So, taken with a massive dose of salt:

I passed my PPL, on the money, at 45hours (I'm told most do it 50/60 hours)
It cost me, probably, around 11k all in I would say, maybe a shade less.
I did this in just over a 9 month period, first flight was in late November 06 (28th?), pass was in early August 07 (2nd?)

As others are going to do to death here, I'd just itterate. I was lucky and didn't have to hardly any significantly long breaks due to wx. The longest I went in between flights was 3 weeks. I booked to fly once a week, but at times booked flying on the Satuday AND Sunday - that was tough.

I also took a week off work and flew every day, usually twice. That was Saturday \ Sunday \ Monday \ Tuesday \ Wednesday (cancelled due to wx got an exam done instead) \ Thursday \ Friday \ Saturday \ Sunday

Went back to work more tired than when I left. It was that time where I really learnt to fly, had I not of done it, then my learning time would be significantly longer. I still remember the hour I learnt to fly, it's just a shame it took 20hours of training to get to that 1 hour!

£5.5k does sound cheap, very cheap. Suspiciously so to me, but then I'm in the South East and everything is expensive. If you are in the stix oop norf then it may be possible.

The other thing, I've got to tell somebody at the start of the PPL, is 2 things I didn't realise.

1. This is a massive undertaking

There is significant home study, and exam preperation. I work long hours in IT and getting home each night to spend an hour or 2 reading is a tough commitment. It's really not easy, and things all did start to get a bit on top of me around May time whilst I was crunching for exams, working my ass off at work, and trying to get the flying hours in.

That doesn't include the week you spend getting out of work @ 18:30, to get to the airfield @ 19:30 to spend a couple of hours going through radio calls to get back home for 22:00. That's a long, tough day, to do for a week solidly.

Roughly I'd say you've got to accept that you are taking on a part time 'A' level, or maybe 3 or 4 GCSE's into your routine.

2. Flying is fun, but at times you will be SCARED

Sometimes flying is scarey. Sometimes you will be terrified. Don't want to put you off, but this isn't bowles that you are taking up.

Don't go for the cheapest training you can. What you are learning may well save your life one day. Treat as such. If the worse came to the worse do you want the bargain basement training ? Or do you want the platinum plated executive version ?

3. Flying is the greatest thing ever

You will NEVER be sorry you got that pilots license. Still to this day I think about it, or tell somebody, and it still sends shivers down my spine that I know how to fly :ok:

[dont overfil]

Spend as much time as you can soaking up information at the flight school.
I was fortunate to get regular trips in the back seat and it's amazing what you can learn when you are not under pressure.

[Okavango]

Paul - thanks for that - that's absolutely excellent. Yes - I agree on the price and was going to go to the best school regardless, it's just luck that the intended school is the most competitive. If you could break down the £11k that would be fantastic (this seems very high even at todays rates?). This is exactly what I needed thanks again.

[Slopey]

11k is not high depending where you train. Watch out for landing fees - once you're into the circuit training you could rack up 40/50+ landings - if you tried that at Aberdeen for example - not that you could cos you'd never get to do circuits - it'd cost you 800-900 alone! (and a a hire rate of 150 + vat + landing fees, you'd be looking at +10k to train here).

Check how landing fees are charged, if it's per full stop, or per touch & go!

Personally I did the Florida route - all in just under £5k, 4.5 weeks, job done :)

Also - NEVER EVER pay up front!!!! :)

[IO540]

Average UK PPL time is 55 to 65hrs depending on who you ask.

Cost varies but £8000 is probably average.

Some did it in the min (45) but they were either exceptionally talented and young people, or they had copious amounts of unlogged flying time with other pilots.

If you can pull off a lot of flying time as a passenger, with a good pilot, you will easily do a PPL in the minimum time.

The USA is still cheaper but fuel costs have risen steeply so it's not as cheap as it used to be.

The single most important factor is whether you can fly every day and treat it as a full time project with no distractions. It has been done in the UK but rarely because of weather and also most people prefer to fit the PPL into their lifestyle. Whereas if they go to the USA they fly all the time which obviously helps.

I would recommend Arizona over Florida. However the only CAA approved school (for a JAA PPL) outside Florida is in S California. All the others will give you an FAA PPL.

[mike172]

I did my PPL with Cambridge Aero Club so I didn't pay any landing fees. All in all I would say I spent a little over £8000 including equipment, books and test fees etc. Not bad considering I flew in modern Cessna 172SP's with very good instructors and nice facilities.

I would agree with IO540 in that you should try to have lessons as frequently as possible. You'll finish much quicker that way and save yourself some cash as well. I passed in 50 hours but my training was spread over two years due to college, weather, part time work and a lack of cash. I did often have large breaks in my training, once I had almost five months between lessons.

If I could do it again I would have finished college first so I could concentrate solely on flying. That said, I don't regret starting and completing my PPL at all. In fact I'm pretty proud that I managed to study for my A-levels, earn money and pay for my training myself.

£5,500 does seem like good value so go for it and have fun!

[RTN11]

Mine probably cost me around £8-9k over 2 years and about 70 hours (my 1st 14 hours were an RAF flying scholarship, then didn't fly for 8 months so pretty much had to start from scratch).

£5k does sound cheap, and it's about what I was quoted for my training. If you go over the 45 hours, or do more dual than was budgeted for then the cost goes up. Also, you've got to get your medical and pay licence fees, including the radio licence.

If I were you I'd budget for 60 hours at least. Worst case senario, you finish in 45, and you have money left to build some experience. Better than going way over budget, and having to worry about finances half way through the licence.

[TommyGun]

Jersey Aero Club 45 hour PPL Course including equipment/tutorials/radio telepphony test/all ground exams/final skill test (no extra landing fee cost) £5665.00

I know this is probably no good to you, but if you could take 4/5 weeks off work, you get class A and class D airspace under your belt and awesome cross country experience to France/UK/Guernsey/Alderney.

JAC also organise great rates at a local guest house, so all in would still be cheaper than the UK.

(£11k sounds painfully steep)

Just a quick note, I thoroughly recommend IMC rating as well as PPL as it does sharpen your skills considerably.

[Top Gunn]

I'd say circa 60 hours on average.

As with PompeyPaul, I was on the money too. Did my first hour in Nov and Skills Test in May of the following year. Solo in 9h45 - end Jan (still waiting for my medical until then!) Biggest gap between lessons was 4 weeks (weather at end Nov/early Dec was pathetic, caused much frustration! Then 3 wks in Feb, wx again!) Managed to get a week's worth in during the April where I racked up 18h40! QXC @ 27h15. I booked to fly once a week, sometimes got the odd extra hour in but couldn't do Sat and Sun due to instructor unavailable; they need time off too!

Total cost in the region of £6k (fuel was slightly cheaper then!) which included most of the hours on C152, some on PA28-161, exam fees, nav eqpt (charts etc), license issue, medical AND club membership (landing fees, circuits included). Not sure of their costs right now but I can highly recommend the school I used. CFI & DCFI both top blokes but that might be no help to you considering your relative location!

Top tips;

1. Be prepared to get weathered off or not to have access to serviceable aircraft; even with 4 or 5 available to me during the time I learnt, there was the odd occasion where there was nothing as school a/c have a tendency to go tech rather often (not surprising the amount they get bashed around by students!)

2. Stick with it, sometimes you'll get frustrated. It isn't the instructor's fault if the wx is pants! Use this time wisely to get the theory under your belt. Get your R/T practical done as early as you can or you'll be waiting around for an R/T examiner after you've passed your Skills Test and can't get your license issued until you've passed this one.

3. If you can fit 4 flights a week in during the Summer, I'll take my hat off to you. Not only are you going to be competing with others for aircraft availability (it isn't just student pilots who want the aircraft), you need to consider instructor availability too (perhaps they might want to take Summer holidays?) Furthermore, the school won't want to rush you too much; they know they've got a steady income stream out of you over an average period; they need to protect their interests. Final point on this one is that believe it or not, learning to fly is both mentally and physically hard work. Don't underestimate how tired you'll be after more than 60-90 mins in the saddle, especially when you roll the Nav into the mix!

4. Enjoy it - at the end of this you will be a qualified pilot (then the learning really begins)! Don't let any of the above put you off, just trying to put things into perspective for you.

Best of luck, whichever route you choose (check NOTAMS first though) :)

Stood by for flames......

[bjornhall]

Sounds like a lot of good suggestions here! :ok: But, you can do it all "wrong" (as in, not following the advice given here) and still get your license at a reasonable cost and within reasonable time. What I am saying is, if you can follow the advice, by all means do! If you can't, get the licence anyway; no point putting it off because you can't fly every day or whatever.

E.g., myself:
"Always shop around to find the best school available" - Only one school available in my area, so that went out the window.

"The most important thing is to find a good instructor and stick with him/her" - So far I have flown with 6 different instructors, and been assigned to another 2 who left for greener pastures before I even had time to fly with them...

"Budget for 55/60/75 hours" - I didn't budget at all.

"It's imperative to fly regularly, with several lessons per week and no long gaps between lessons" - I flew 3 hours in 2006, 9 hours in 2007 and 1 hour in the first three months of 2008, because my school was unable to recruit any instructors.

Still look set to get the licence this summer, in 46 - 47 hours all in all. So remember, the advice you get might be the best way of doing it, but it's not the only way of doing it! :ok:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

It's still the wrong question.

(Unless you're intending to get the licence, tick it off as "done that", and move on to cave diving or whatever else is next on your list.)

The right question is: "once I've got the licence, can I afford to keep flying, year on year, as much as I want to?".

That's the income question. The "how much does a PPL cost" is a capital question - almost anyone can add £8k to their mortgage as a one-off and not notice it.

[flybymike]

60 hours, 18 months, 2 lessons a week, 50% lost due weather, £2500, but then that was twenty five years ago... :)

[PompeyPaul]

60 hours, 18 months, 2 lessons a week, 50% lost due weather, £2500, but then that was twenty five years ago... :)
In 2007, £2,500.00 from 1983 is worth

£6,078.25 using the retail price index.
http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/result.php?use%5B%5D=CPI&year_late=1983&typeamount=2500&amount=2500&year_source=1983&year_result=2007

[Piper.Classique]

Forty hours, £28.00 per hour, bearing in mind that I was an apprentice being paid £25.00 per week, so I needed a second job. Book, exam fees on top, over two years because that's how little money I had so I had to do it that way. Wx cancellations, but very strict with myself about only flying when I could progress, so as to save the maximum amount of money. At the time an approved course was 35 hours, ordinary course 40 hours min. I actually scraped in at 39 hours 45 mins, on a scruffy C150, with about five hours on a SF25 owned by the gliding club (got that in return for helping with the refabric of the SF25). Would have loved to learn on a chipmunk, but the 150 was cheaper and nearer home. I didn't have a car so couldn't travel far anyway. The second job was essential :} This was in 1981 and I always managed to continue to fly since, though at least once I had to renew by test due to lack of hours. Of course I was young and keen! Things got better when I got a job as a bus driver, and could afford to fly a lot more.
I see that would now cost £3,093.93 plus the books and exams

[astir 8]

Check old threads about "how many hours it took to solo". There's a fairly hard link with age as well as continuity and instructing quality.

[TommyGun]

Took me 11 hours to go solo, but I was lucky enough to get an RAF flying scholarship and was sent to Dundee for 3 weeks to do 20 hours flying.

[Julian]

60 hours, 18 months, 2 lessons a week, 50% lost due weather, £2500, but then that was twenty five years ago...

I took mine in '02 for £2500 and 62 hours over 4 weeks. The most I have heard in the UK was a mate who did his at MSF, 12 months and £17,000!!!

J.

[Piper.Classique]

Took me 11 hours to go solo, but I was lucky enough to get an RAF flying scholarship and was sent to Dundee for 3 weeks to do 20 hours flying.So, based on solo at 11 hours, how many hours from there to the licence?
Allowing for all the mandatory times, looks like a solo between ten and fifteen hours should allow for a licence in under fifty hours assuming no major problems later. This said, everyone seems to stick somewhere, very few just sail through. Might be interesting to know what most posters found hardest for them.

[airborne_artist]

Their package is competitive at £5500 all inclusive

What are the payment terns for this package?

[coineach]

When I did my PPL many years ago (early 1980s) I managed it in 40 hrs 15 mins. I would have completed in 40 hours but I was enjoying myself so much doing circuits that i did an extra one. Can't remember exactly how much it cost then but "Hey!!" we do it for the love of flying. Ask a smoker how much he spends on fags and how much enjoyment he gets out of them.

Sadly with the cost of fuel, flying is becoming "The sport of kings" again.

[RTN11]

I was delayed a few hours on my 1st solo as I couldn't quite master the landing. I got there in the end, and it's never been a problem since.

The people I was learning with actually laughed at me for not being able to land very well, but I just laughed right back at them months later when I found nav so easy and they were all struggling.

As said above, most people will probably get a bit stuck on something, it's all about how you deal with that.

[flybymike]

For me the main sticking point was fear. Fear of flying, fear of crashing, fear of engine failure, fear of a wing dropping off, fear of getting lost etc etc.

Getting a licence was, and still is, the most difficult stressful awful thing I ever had to do in my life, and the training and learning to come to terms with my emotions became an almost carthartic exercise in self awareness, vulnerabilty and self conquest.

To this day, 25 years and seven hundred hours later, it remains far and away the best, most life enhancing wonderfully rewarding decision I ever made. The "edge" is still there but the joy is immeasurable....

[TommyGun]

Piper Classique (and anyone else)

My sticking points were probably Nav and I remember struggling with RT (got quite tongue-tied) but then it clicked. Also started on DA20 in Dundee and had to convert to PA28 in Jersey...from all electric trims, flaps, etc and variable pitch propeller, to manual flaps and trims, and fuel mixture...

I still hate NDB and ADF!

What's wrong with VOR / DME / ILS?!

Tom

[RTN11]

Hey TommyGun I started at Dundee too.

I also converted to the PA-28. It's a bit strange going from simply flicking a switch and watching the flaps move to pulling a big lever up from the floor.

I miss the DA20, although I might now start flying a robin which is also a very nice aircraft.

[TommyGun]

Robins look like a cross between the DA20 and PA28.

When under instruction on Katana in Dundee, my instructor and I failed to notice the circuit breaker for the flaps popped out, and as the sun was shining through the bubble cockpit we also failed to see the LED light on the flap switch had not illuminated...On finals at around 95-100kts instead of about 65kts! He took control and put the tail on the ground before the wheels! (I have - thankfully - since then, learnt a term called 'Going Around'!).

Sent you a PM.

[madgav]

This has become an interestng thread for me as I am currently 'sticking' on a couple of things:
1. The ongoing challenge that is crosswind landings
2. Inability (mainly due to wx) to get even a second solo in (it's now 7 months since my first solo).
Having just notched up 30 hrs it's becoming obvious that this is not going to be completed in 45 :rolleyes: as I am still circuit bashing & have no nav flights done.
The frustration is now beginning to set in but it's somehow comforting to know that 60 hrs is more 'normal'.
Gavin.
www.madgav.org (http://www.madgav.org/)

[RTN11]

Chin up madgav

I remember it feeling like I was rubbish when it became clear I wasn't going to finish near 45 hours, but I soon got over it.

It doesn't really matter how long you take, as long as you're a confident and compitant pilot at the end of it. I could've gone off to the US and done a PPL in under a month, but I don't think this would've suited my needs at the time.

Don't give up, stay focused and make sure you learn something every time you fly.

[TommyGun]

Madgav,

Crosswind landings...remember to roll the aircraft into the wind and kick in the opposite rudder (also keep a keen eye on speed!).

[TommyGun]

Another top tip and handy hint is when the weather prevents you from flying, then revise and take the ground exams, otherwise it's a waste of a day. Best aid in revision is the PPL Confuser!

[Dysonsphere]

£8000 55 hours including landing fees books etc (was at WW so landing free there but membership was £250.) Spent 6 weeks waiting to do cross country exam due to WX causing several hours of solo requailfieng.

[coineach]

Can't really say that I found anything too difficult - even the IMC course - some frustrations but nothing that I didn't overcome.

One lesson that I learned the hard way was how to open the throttle slowly after an incident in the Beagle Pup (beautiful aircraft) that I was learning on. While doing circuits in damp weather, I happened to open the throttle a little too quickly and got a bit of ice in the carb. The aircraft became airbourne on the fairly short runway, so no chance of landing back. I was mighty glad that the Pup, with flaps up, gave you a bit of buffet before the stall, so I was able to fly the aircraft at minimum speed while using oodles of carb heat. Eventually cleared the ice as I was turning downwind. The rest of the circuits were uneventful, but enjoyable.

[bjornhall]

Sticking point? Aside from lack of instructors leaving me grounded for months... Power off landings has probably been the hardest thing for me. Judging them right is hard! In the old 172N with 40 degrees of flaps it's no biggie, with everything hanging out you're dropping like a brick... In the 172R/S with only 30 degrees, it's still tricky! Working on it tho'...!

[madgav]

It doesn't really matter how long you take, as long as you're a confident and compitant pilot at the end of itExactly :ok: I'm honestly not too concerned how many hours it takes, just find it a bit frustrating on those occasions when I don't feel I'm progressing as quickly as I would like..... and of course (:eek:) every hour adds £145 to the total cost, not insignificant since I'm trying to fly once a week while still a stude......

Crosswind landings...remember to roll the aircraft into the wind and kick in the opposite rudder (also keep a keen eye on speed!)Yep, that's what I have been doing :ok: Unfortunately I got it into my head quite early on that establishing the wing-down approach early on final was a good idea (after it worked really well on one occasion following several lessons with little progress). I've since found that it's hit or miss whether that really works, depending on the conditions on the day - doesn't work well if it's gusty for instance, and even if it's not there will always be some further control inputs required as the wind changes near the ground. And of course flying wing-down for most of final is less comfortable for both myself and any passengers. More recently I've been crabbing on final and only changing to wing-down when 100-200ft agl, things have improved but it's not there yet.

Another top tip and handy hint is when the weather prevents you from flying, then revise and take the ground exams, otherwise it's a waste of a day. Best aid in revision is the PPL Confuser!Gotta say that is also something that is progressing fairly slowly due to other committments (and work of course, which is sadly necessary to fund all of this). I haven't had any particular problem with the exams so far, got 3 of them done and currently studying nav, but it's taking time....... only got 11 months now to get the other 4 done......

[TommyGun]

Madgav,

Keep working on those crosswind landings, as you really will need them when you qualify (otherwise you'll never get to fly).

What type(s) are you training on?

What exams have you done? Obviously you've done Air Law...Human Performance and Limitations is easy, I had a little ground school for Navigation and Radio Telephony...I just used the confuser for Meteorology and Flight Planning. The one I found hard was Air Tech/General (whatever it was called)...but clicked in the end and the PPL Confuser helped.

Like I said, don't let work get in the way...whenever you go up to your club and get weathered off, get some ground school instead and do some revision and get another exam.

[PompeyPaul]

Quote:
Gotta say that is also something that is progressing fairly slowly due to other committments (and work of course, which is sadly necessary to fund all of this). I haven't had any particular problem with the exams so far, got 3 of them done and currently studying nav, but it's taking time....... only got 11 months now to get the other 4 done......
You will get there, wasn't that long ago I was in the same boat :)
I think, one of the most exhilirating things about the PPL was crunching through my exams towards the end, since time was running out before the skills test. I did 3 exams in 6 weeks.

I know if you are full time then a subject every 2 weeks is easy. I was on 11 hour days at work, but it was exciting because I could feel the skills test coming and the license was on it's way :) Read the book in one week, hammer the revision the next week, take the exam.

I did cheat though and did human performance, solely from the confuser, in around 4 days.

[madgav]

Keep working on those crosswind landings, as you really will need them when you qualify (otherwise you'll never get to fly)

Yep, that's becoming more & more evident every week......

What type(s) are you training on?

C172SP

What exams have you done?

Air law 19/10/07
Met 30/11/07
Human Perf 22/02/08

Like I said, it's getting there, slowly. I'm told that:
- Nav is fairly tough, mainly due to time constraints in the exam, so loads of practice exams required
- Flight planning/perf is fairly straightforward
- Aeroplane technical is easy enough but there is lots to learn
- Comms (written paper) is easy, could possibly do it now but would prefer to leave it until I have more experience.
I am using the confuser + airquiz practice exam website, have also been listening to an R/T CD in the car.

Read the book in one week, hammer the revision the next week, take the exam.

Yeah, I've read everything through twice so far, then did all the examples in the book, then did all the examples in the confuser, then did as many online practice exams as possible. So far I have only had one question wrong in the 3 exams I have sat - am I possibly over-studying? :eek:
Will be several more weeks before I am ready to sit the nav exam.


G.

[DavidHoul52]

Wrote the nav exam yesterday. Loads of time - I finished in well under an hour and I didn't rush it. Double check your triangle of velocity calcs - many of the answers can be found by looking at the chart legend.

[madgav]

Mmmm I may have been a bit hasty with my reply #29 (although I don't really think so after 7 months). However today in fairly benign conditions I did 3 circuits dual before being sent off to do another 3 on my own :).
So something new on the solo score sheet at last, now I have only 2½ hours more solo yet to do in the circuit :rolleyes:
G.

[eugegall]

Hey,

My PPL cost me £6000 INC all exams and ground school. And a decent set of David Clark headset. It took me 45 hours bang on and i completed my night ratin within the PPL.

From 1st lesson to completion took 8 months. However i had a 2 month break over xmas. I also went solo on 9.5 hours.

Good luck

[RTN11]

Buying my own headset was the best thing ever. The ones the club provide in my experience are usually quite bad. I dont envy the passengers I take up having to use the club ones.

[cadge]

Take the course cost, double it and add 10% average I have heard of doing course is 60 hours, longest I have heard was five years and £80000.00 depends how quick you pick it up and how good your instructor is.

[RTN11]

£80,000 on a PPL? thats madness

[markp123]

My course has cost me around £6500 so far, thats for the 45 hours all exams, books and essentials and landing fees. On about 39 hours at the moment and got one more nav flight to do before we start looking at my QXC. probably going to overshoot the 45 hours as i feel im going to need quite abit of general revision!

When i first started, i wasn't sure if i was just going to do the NPPL or course or the JAR PPL. Payed in installments and when i finally decided to upgrade to the JAR PPL course, found that the price had gone up a couple of hundred pounds (mainly due to the rocketing price of fuel!) So my advice would be agree on a fixed price from the start :ok:

[norton2005]

I did my PPL last summer full time over a period of 3 months, though half of that was spent on the ground. Did it in 60 hours inclusive of test and it cost £7000 inclusive of everything. Note the airfield i did it at didn't have landing fees.