A320 landing light inoperative

[IFLY_INDIGO]

folks, I have never landed with landing lights inoperative at night.. other day, i found before a night flight that landing lights were unserviceable, i told AME to repair it but he insisted he would release the flight under MEL... I was equally adamant, finally after 1hr delay he gave up and changed the bulbs...

I really wonder how it would feel to land at night without landing lights... especially when it is raining over the field...

can you throw some light out of your experience..

cheers

[Dream Land]

Not really as hard as you think, using your peripheral vision and looking adequately down the runway, you can get quite good at it, military crews do it all the time, my flight instructor turned the landing light off on my first night flight to get me acquainted when it burns out. :ok:

[bflyer]

well that would be interresting to say the least...i'm tempted to try it out at least during the last stages of the landing tomorrow..dunno if i will have the guts to complete the landing without them
anyway... will let you know about the results but i'm sure it will be extremely uncomfortable

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

re the OP - ALL the landing lights were inop, and you were released for a night flight???

I don't have access to an A320 MMEL (TC hasn't put the airbus MMELs online yet) but a quick check of ours indicates that all lights inop is only permitted as follows:
All may be inoperative provided aircraft is not operated at night.

I'm a bit perplexed that anyone managed to get all the lights inop onto the MEL.... if I read your post correctly.

[mustafagander]

I'm with my fellow madman.

Can the MEL really be read to say that no landing lights are required for night flight?

If so then get rid of the little buggers at once and reduce weight as well as complexity.

All the Boeings I've operated over many years required at least a couple for night work.

[mnttech]

FYI:
40-02
Landing Lights (installed) 2 (required)1 Notes: One may be inoperative provided nose, taxi and takeoff lights operate normally.
May be inoperative for day operations.

Retraction Systems (installed) 2 (required) 0 Notes:(O) May be inoperative provided a 1% fuel penalty is applied for each extended light.

[tom775257]

I have landed a 320 multiple times with one of the two landing lights under the wing inop, didn't really notice much of a difference. That was just because I was working on a wet lease with 2 aircraft, one had the light inop, so flew it quite often; released as per MEL.

[lee van chief]

Maybe if you had asked, and not told the AME to replace the filaments, you would have got a better response?

[ready eddy]

Well said Lee, I'm not a fan of being TOLD what to do. That said, I am surprised that the a/c was gonna be released with all the landing lights u/s. Any mel I've operated off wouldn't allow release with two landing lights u/s on one side,esp for night flight.

Just curious, were ALL the landing lights u/s?

[the rim]

all lights inop =no release for night flt....well thats how it is over here but yes if you spoke to the LAME in a nice way he/she might of change a LAMP its not a bulb they live in the cabin:ok:

[Gary Lager]

Landed at night with LDG LTs not ON many times, usually because I switched them off for approach to minima in poor vis and forgot to switch them on when visual.

Usually results in a bit of a crunch on touchdown but no problem apart from embarrassment.

[Dream Land]

Usually results in a bit of a crunch on touchdown but no problem apart from embarrassment.Try looking farther down the runway next time. :ok:

[Dani]

I'm with Gary Lager. It's not so much of a problem, depending generally on your landing technic. Some people, especially young/unexperienced pilots seem to have problems without. It all depends how much of depth you can perceive if your tarmac is not illuminated in front of you. Me I use the radio altimeter count down a lot, so I don't really need the visual cues of an approaching tarmac that much. It's maybe a thing you have to train an odd time, first with only one landing light out, then you get the feeling.

Fly safe,
Dani

[IFLY_INDIGO]

that would be cool.. next night flight, i am gonna try with one landing light off and later with both...

thanks a lot you all....

[Gary Lager]

Try looking farther down the runway next time.

...usually because I switched them off for approach to minima in poor vis

I'm sure I would look down the runway if it was possible to see anything in that direction...d'oh!

[aa73]

If I'm not mistaken, the A320 has NOSE landing lights as well, correct?

So why not just use the nose landing lights at night with the MAIN landing lights inop (under the wings.) We used to do this on the MD80. Some captains did not like using the wing retractable/extendable landing lights at night because of the vibration one felt in flight. So they would just use the nose landing light, which was plenty bright when selected to the BRIGHT position. Plus the wing landing lights did not illuminate the runway that well, since they were so far outboard under the wing tips.

Just an idea.
73

[FlightDetent]

If I'm not mistaken, the A320 has NOSE landing lights as well, correct? Contrary is true. Runway turn-off, taxi, and TO LT. Some of us may use the TO LT for landing, but it is not a manufacturer recommended procedure and indeed has no benefits (after a small tech/academic discussion).

FD (the un-real)

[Dani]

Why contrary? He says the same as you. Is this some sort of a double negation which I don't understand?

As stated above, if you have lost one landing light, you have to have the nose landing light - and I guess you would use it.

Why wouldn't it help, FD?

Dani

[EXLEFTSEAT]

Exactly my sentiments. Old school, maybe?

[FlightDetent]

If I'm not mistaken, the A320 has NOSE landing lights as well, correct?
Why contrary?
....
Why wouldn't it help, FD?

Because there is no LANDING LIGHT mounted on NW strut.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321207 ;)

Perhaps I am mistaken, then we need some tech spec, where is IFixPlanes when you need him?

If one LDG lt is inop, surely it is mandatory to have both taxi and TO serviceable. Once at the MMEL, it is worth mentioning that for u/s TO lt, there is no restriction.

[aa73]

Does the nose light have to be a LANDING LIGHT? So what if it is only a TAKEOFF light... doesn't it put out a decent-enough amount of light to use during landing, in case both main landing lights are inop?

The MD80's nose light had two settings, DIM and BRIGHT. It never specified whether it was a landing or takeoff light, but we could use it on BRIGHT for either TO or LDG since it was bright enough for both. Can't that be the case for the A320 series too?

thanks,
73

P.s. As a side note, the MD80's wing retractable landing lights had an incredibly short life due to the vibration of the filaments against the airflow when extended. They also induced a rumbling in the main cabin that was quite noticeable down to about 180kts. Is this also true on A320?

[Jetjock330]

A340/A330 nose wheel light has two positions, Taxi and take-off. Taxi for taxying and then using take-off for take-off, however for landing, the light switch is commanded into the taxi and not take-off position. Check FCOM, normal procedures, landing.

The reason is to do with the angle of the beam, and the approach angle/attitude of the aircraft, is that it will further reduce visibility in the take-off postion, if flying in rain, low vis stuff.

I have that from Airbus in writing.

[aa73]

Typical Airbus b.s.! If you have a nose light, let the PILOT decide when and how to use it, not the airplane.

[sooty615]

Not wanting to be flippant here (well maybe I do), but wasn't there an anniversary today of the damn busters raid? Lancs flying from Blighty to Germany and back, not above 150' in order to avoid detection by radar, at night, using dead reckoning, in formation, and without even 1% of the kit we carry - and we are discussing ONE landing light being inoperative!

Please end this thread.

[aa73]

yeah, but you know even those crews were probably bitching about something mundane or other... so why screw with tradition?

Cheers!
73

[toolowtoofast]

I'm still wondering how the hell you got into an airliner without ever having done a night landing without lights!

I suppose you've never landed on a grass runway either?