Camping by Air - Dangerous Goods?

[Redbird72]

I'm quite taken by the idea of "camping under the wing" - as seen in various fly-in photos, but how does this work in practice?

When I think about some of the equipment I've taken camping in our old VW or a tent in the past, much of it is probably deemed hazardous for taking on a private flight (or commercial, for that matter); gas stove, matches/lighters, etc.

So what happens in reality? Is "camping under the wing" simply a tent, sleeping bag and enough cash for a taxi to the nearest pub/restaurant, or can you legally carry what you need for a cuppa and some breakfast? :confused:

[BackPacker]

My MSR Whisperlite is supposed to work fine on 100LL. I can store that in the aircrafts tanks, together with the rest of the fuel, until I need it. But if you're trying to cook on gas (as in Camping Gaz or something like that) I guess it's a matter of defying the law, or eat out.

[LH2]

Gas stoves should be Ok at the altitudes you'll be flying. After all, I carry and use mine at >10,000ft (although I get up there the old fashioned way: on foot and/or hands), so as far as canister pressures is concerned, that's not a problem. As for the risk of escape and ignition, well, that's up to you to judge it.

Having said that, if you're on just a weekend escapade and not going anywhere particularly remote, just eat cold food and use a thermos for your coffee/tea. The idea is to keep it simple.

[BackPacker]

LH2, I wasn't referring to Boyle's law, but the ANO. :O

[LH2]

I wasn't referring to Boyle's law, but the ANO

Oh, in that case go camping in France, where the carriage of a stove (and its corresponding fuel, along with matches, knife, piolets, etc.) are not just permitted, but in fact recommended in certain kinds of flights.

"Arrêté du 2 février 2004 relatif aux formations de site, aux qualifications montagne et aux équipements requis pour le vol en montagne en avion" refers :)

[Henry Hallam]

With 100LL actually having quite a lot of lead in it, is it a good idea to cook food with it? (genuine question - I'm willing to believe it's not a problem, but would like to see some substantiation)

[BackPacker]

With 100LL actually having quite a lot of lead in it, is it a good idea to cook food with it?

It's true that you'd be better off by using original Coleman Fuel, which is ultra-refined and doesn't have any toxic additives in it. It also keeps your stove and pans cleaner. But a bottle of Coleman Fuel is not something that you can legally transport in an aircraft and is not available everywhere. So people do cook on mogas or 100LL, or even on Diesel or Jet-A if the stove allows that (like the MSR XGK or Dragonfly).

With a few basic hygienic precautions this can be quite safe. Just make sure the soot on the outside of your pans doesn't get in contact with the food in any way (through your hands for instance) and only put food on the stove when the stove is fully heated up (blue instead of yellow flame). Also, don't roast anything over an open flame.

In addition to this, most stoves that burn liquid fuel instead of gas can be field-stripped and cleaned completely with minimum tools and if you cook on a fuel with additives in it, you need to clean regularly. All part of the charm, as far as I'm concerned.

[JBGA]

LH2, I wasn't referring to Boyle's law, but the ANO. :O

Dagerous Goods are not in the ANO. They are in the AN(DG)R !! Like all legal documents it says something along the lines of:

Rule 1 - Don't carry Dangerous Goods
Rule 2 - Rule 1 doesn't apply if you have permission from the CAA
Rule 3 - If you want permission from the CAA here are the hoops, please sart jumping.

Try this.... http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1219/20080501WhatCanICarry.pdf

[Redbird72]

Thanks everyone for your replies and links. :ok:

I'm not in a position for camping by air yet, as I am still training, but hopefully I'll be able to put your recommendations to good use in the not too distant future. Must admit, I hadn't thought of petrol fuelled stoves, but I'm thinking the easiest solution will be thermos & pub!

Ta,

Red x

[IO540]

That CAA leaflet obviously applies to public transport.

I am not aware of any dangerous goods prohibition (other than weapons but that is a different subject altogether) on private flights, either G-reg or N-reg, in any European airspace.

The biggest problem I see with "camping under the wing" is that almost no airport or airfield will let you.

[Supersport]

Who needs gas...?

Whats wrong with a bag of charcoal and some fire lighters!? :ok:

Can't beat a good barbeque and most are very light and will flat pack with the aid of some basic tools... although, it is not advisable to set one up inside your tent though. := :O

[ChampChump]

The biggest problem I see with "camping under the wing" is that almost no airport or airfield will let you.

I think many of us favour grassy fields and strips and have not encountered a problem. What's a good fly-in without the camping under the wing? It's even easier when touring on the continent.

WR's system hasn't destroyed the Aeronca Club fleet yet, but the price of Avgas is making those breakfasts look something of a luxury.

[whitehorse]

Checkout www.lyddaero.co.uk (http://www.lyddaero.co.uk) - Flying WAGS, item 4 of their charter. Sorry a bit of a thread change, but couldn't help it.:E

[BackPacker]

I am not aware of any dangerous goods prohibition (other than weapons but that is a different subject altogether) on private flights

Out of curiosity, I checked the ANO (actually, I just did a search on "Dangerous goods" - lazy me) and the ANO, article 70, says this:

Without prejudice to any other provisions of this Order, the Secretary of State may make regulations prescribing —

(a) the classification of certain articles and substances as dangerous goods;

(b) the categories of dangerous goods which an aircraft may not carry;

(c) the conditions which apply to the loading on, suspension beneath and carriage by an aircraft of dangerous goods

.......

The CAA then has this page: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1219&pagetype=90&pageid=9600 which seems to imply that all regulations wrt. dangerous goods apply to all aircraft, with no exception for GA being made.

Furthermore, CAP393, section 7, seems to apply to all types of aircraft (GA and public transport) and specifically prohibits dangerous goods unless the operator has a certificate:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.pdf

So my conclusion is that dangerous goods are prohibited on private flights.

And yes, the list of dangerous goods includes camping gas containers and flammable liquids.

Whats wrong with a bag of charcoal and some fire lighters!?

Fire lighters are on the list too, although charcoal is not.

[LH2]

That CAA leaflet obviously applies to public transport.

Good point.

other than weapons

Is there any restriction on carrying them on the plane (apart from the usual restrictions on the transport of weapons in general)? Of course, going through the passenger terminal with them might be a different story :)

Talk about digressions, but what about if you're flying privately to Svalbard (Norway)? You are supposed to carry a high-powered rifle with you (and know how to use it) in case you enter into discussions with a bear on what to have for dinner.

Whats wrong with a bag of charcoal and some fire lighters!?

That's also another excellent suggestion! :ok: I hadn't thought of those single-use BBQs they sell at petrol stations (along with bags of charcoal). Well, they do that in Norway anyway, not sure I've seen them in the UK.

I think I've posted this one before, but what the hell, here it goes again:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/2386767.jpg (http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/2386767.jpg)

[IO540]

I would find it hard to believe that airliner passenger stuff applies to GA.

For starters, you can carry all kinds of stuff in the hold (checked baggage). This includes guns (obviously you need a firearm or shotgun permit to carry one about in the first place but that's a separate issue).

What relevance is the "in the hold" distinction to GA?

Common sense would seem to be more important. I would be concerned about carrying a flammable liquid container that was leaking, or a laptop with a huge lithium polymer battery. I suppose that one advantage of a Cessna is that you can always open the door and chuck the laptop out :)

[airborne_artist]

You may find that your insurance co. is more interested in dangerous items in the aircraft than the CAA. However, given that the most dangerous item in a light aircraft is probably the chap/chapess holding the stick, perhaps not :ok:

[BackPacker]

Weapons and "munitions of war" have their own separate article in the ANO, article 69. Again, seems to apply to all aircraft, GA included, and the article seems to apply the same principles as dangerous goods: cannot do, unless with permission from the CAA. There is one exception for police vehicles so that the police officer on board can carry his weapon, and there's this:

Nothing in this article shall apply to any sporting weapon or munition of war taken or carried on board an aircraft registered in a country other than the United Kingdom if the sporting weapon or munition of war, as the case may be, may under the law of the country in which the aircraft is registered be lawfully taken or carried on board for the purpose of ensuring the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board.

So if you intend to discuss dinner plans with a bear in Canada or Norway, you can legally take a rifle with you.

[beatnik]

If you are thinking of camping under the wing in Southern Africa, there are other "dangerous" considerations to be aware of....:ooh:

http://www.myfunnyguy.com/pics/airplane-lions.jpg