PPL Ground Exams

[carrie]

Sorry all i'm sure this question has been asked a thousand times but I cant find the answer (have now become google eyed after 2 hours reading the forum). Anyway would anyone know where in Ireland/Northern Ireland I can sit the PPL exams before going to do the flying side of things in Florida.

[Vone Rotate]

I done exactly that.....Done exams and went out to florida. Came home the next day too. Personal reasons but looking back and flying with somone who did do the PPL in Florida am pleased fate stepped in.

I would consider all your options.... Its not always cheaper to do it in Florida. It does not always work out how the schools say. Anyway this is not what you asked.......

Contact any flying school near buy and they will more than likely allow you to take them around £20-£30 each one 7 in total.

Good idea doing them first:ok:

[Whirlygig]

I did something similar (except not in Ireland). I rang up a few local schools and asked them if I could sit the PPL exams with them before doing a full-time flying course elsewhere.

The first call (to an incredibly well known school) was a flat "no". The second, well, they didn't seem to grasp the concept and told me that you had to sit the exams at the same school at which you fly (which is cobblers). The third however, said "yes, come along whenever" and they didn't even charge me.

Be prepared to make a few calls and be prepared for a few refusals.

[morghan]

I was told to start with ppl, my quest is:is that true that in florida I can get in a few weeks not spending a lot of money?
thanks

[carrie]

Thanks getting back to me. Will look into it further now. :D

[chris-squire]

Hi guys,

Top tip...get as many PPL exams done at home as you can! I did 4 and am glad I did. Ive just strarted MFC in Canada and all good so far (apart form the weather!). Did exam nmero 5 today...and passed!Hurrah! The exams will set you back £45 each regardless of where you go as thats the standard CAA charge. If you are looking to do the remainder of your training with a certain FTO then i would advise that you do it there so that they dont charge you anything else i.e room hire or something bloody stupid.

Do look around and if you have time you'll soon realise that getting your PPL abroad actually can be mroe expensive by the time you've paid for your flights and accommodations. The bit you save loads on is the Hour Building if you intend to go onto ATPL's etc. But if you have the time and arent in a rush I would get your PPL in the UK and then go abroad just for a short burst of say, a month, to build your hours. That should save you a fair wadge!

Good luck whatever you decide!

[FlyEGNT]

£45 each for PPL exams??:eek: I pay £11.75 per exam I pass. That's the CAA fee (which they don't charge unless you pass). School donesn't charge anything, although it is my FTO.

Weather is now playing a real big part in the amount of time its taking to get my PPL(A) in the UK. I was doing well last year and early this year, but I haven't flown for 6 weeks now :{. I'm planning on finishing PPL here and then abroad for some hour building.
I agree with chris-squire that going abroad doesn't mean a PPL for peanuts. When I was looking I found I wasn't really gonna save a load of cash. I'm currently learning at a UK International Airport which is good for keeping you on your toes. And since I'll be doing most of my flying in the UK, I thought it better I learn here. Instructors also fly for UK based airlines so plenty of knowledge around should I need to ask anyone for help.

Hope this helps you.

[Cherrytaz]

Apologies for bringing this thread back up but does anyone reccommend anywhere in Northern Ireland to sit my CAA ground exams? I am self studying and just need to sit the exams somewhere. I have been quoted £45 per exam at one facility which seems pretty steep

[keith williams]

The CAA do not make any charge for PPL exams (unless they have introduced one very recently). They recommend a fee of £45 per exam. This fee does not go to the CAA, but is retained by the school that is providing the exams.

Schools are permitted to charge any lower fee if they wish. In some cases schools do not charge any exam fee for candidates who are also carrying out their flying training with them. The same schools may charge the full £45 for each exam for candidates who intend to do their flying elsewhere.

[Kapish]

Hi guys, sorry to barge in, but can you tell me how long after taking the exams you have to do the flight training? Is there a time limit between each exam and the next? Hope I'm making sense.

[Cherrytaz]

Thanks Keith, Looks like £45 per exam in Enniskillen is the way forward

[mrmum]

Kapish
Once you attempt your first theory exam, you have until the end of that month plus 18 months to pass the full set. Once you've got them all, you then have a further two years to have your PPL issued.
From CAP 804;
FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences
(a) Responsibilities of the applicant
(1) Applicants shall take the entire set of examinations for a specific licence or rating under the responsibility of one Member State.
(2) Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard.
(3) The recommendation by an ATO shall be valid for 12 months. If the applicant has failed to attempt at least one theoretical knowledge examination paper within this period of validity, the need for further training shall be determined by the ATO, based on the needs of the applicant.
(b) Pass standards
(1) A pass in an examination paper will be awarded to an applicant achieving at least 75% of the marks allocated to that paper. There is no penalty marking.
(2) Unless otherwise determined in this Part, an applicant has successfully completed the required theoretical knowledge examination for the appropriate pilot licence or rating when he/she has passed all the required examination papers within a period of 18 months counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted an examination.
(3) If an applicant has failed to pass one of the examination papers within 4 attempts, or has failed to pass all papers within either 6 sittings or the period mentioned in paragraph (2), he/she shall re-take the complete set of examination papers.
Before re-taking the examinations, the applicant shall undertake further training at an ATO. The extent and scope of the training needed shall be determined by the training organisation, based on the needs of the applicant.
(c) Validity period
(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
(i) for the issue of a private pilot licence....for a period of 24 months; the periods in (i) shall be counted from the day when the pilot successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with (b)(2).
No time limit between exams/sittings.

[Kapish]

Thanks very much.

[AlexanderH]

Yes I did the same thing before I went to Florida. There was a chap at the golf course at Bournemouth Airport who ran courses for the PPL exams.

Can't remember his name though. Sorry.

[seymoreskye]

What do you all make of this? Heard some good stuff and some bad stuff:

Anyone have any experience:

PPL (http://www.manchestergroundschool.co.uk/)

[mrmum]

Well, being as he sets himself up as a PPL groundschool specialist, you would think that he would actually know the applicable rules. From the MGS website;
You must complete the last written exam 18 months from when you took your first exam, you then have a further 2 years to take your flight test from your last written exam.
This is not correct, the actual time frame is currently as follows, from LASORS section C 1.3;
An applicant shall be deemed to have successfully completed the theoretical examinations for the JAR-FCL PPL(A) when awarded a pass in all of the above examinations within a period of 18 months counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted the examination. A pass will be accepted for the grant of a JAR-FCL PPL(A) during the 24 months from the date of successfully completing all of the theoretical knowledge examinations.
For how it will be from 17th September, see post #12

[Whopity]

(2) Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard.This will make taking the exams before going to Florida a little more difficult!
(3) If an applicant has failed to pass one of the examination papers within 4 attempts, or has failed to pass all papers within either 6 sittings or the period mentioned in paragraph (2), he/she shall re-take the complete set of examination papers.This makes it impossible with the current UK (7) exams!

[peterh337]

(2) Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard.

Doesn't that mean mandatory ground school in the PPL?

[BillieBob]

This makes it impossible with the current UK (7) exams! Not if you take more than one exam at each sitting. Candidates for the 14 ATPL exams seem to manage OK.Doesn't that mean mandatory ground school in the PPL?Yes, 100 hours of it (although some may be 'distance learning').

[peterh337]

Gosh that's going to be a shock for some people.

When is this coming in?

Currently you can self study for the lot and just turn up at the RF to sit the exams.

How are RFs ( => ATOs) going to structure this stuff? Are they going to buy in some study material to hand out (I mean sell ;) ) to the punters - like a number of FTOs bought the PPSC (http://www.ppsc.net/products.asp) stuff which they flog for ~£1000?

[piperarcher]

Quote:
Doesn't that mean mandatory ground school in the PPL?
Yes, 100 hours of it (although some may be 'distance learning').

How was the calculation of 100 hours of groundschool reached at the PPL level ?

Even if a FTO had to approve an exam sitting for a PPL student, couldnt they just authorise this based on the fact the student said he had read the book / done the confuser / other test preps and said they are ready? 100 hours at e.g. £25 p/hour instructor rate would add £2500 onto the cost of a PPL.

From the snippets of information in this discussion, I couldnt see how any hours of ground school were required.

[Humaround]

It only says
"Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard."

That appears to give the ATO authority to say when the student is ready to take an exam. I suppose that might mean after they provide x hours of groundschool but it might also mean as soon as they think the stude is ready on the basis of his/her own study plus whatever pearls of wisdom their instructor imparts during training. I rather think most schools do the latter? Mine certainly did in 2003-5, unless things have changed.

[fattony]

Doesn't that mean mandatory ground school in the PPL?
Yes, 100 hours of it (although some may be 'distance learning').

Surely one's leg is being pulled?

[keith williams]

The authorities appear to have based this idea on the current requirements for ATPL ground school study. If I recall correctly the legal minimum for ATPL is 650 hours of which 10% must be done in the classroom. This typically leads to two weeks of classroom study being applied to distance learning courses.

To ensure that the candidates are ready for the exams they are required to take practice exams during the two weeks of classroom work. In some schools this takes up virtually all of the classroom study time, so there really isn't any significant face-to-face tuition.

If the same approach were to be applied to the PPL ground school, only 10 hours would be done in the classroom. With 7 subjects this would be completely consumed in taking practice exams.

It is of course entirely possible (I suspect probable?) that a more stringent approach will be applied to the PPL students.

[Prop swinger]

BillieBob dropped this same little bombshell in a thread in July (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/490280-ppl-ground-training-study.html#post7294928).

As it turns out, the AMC is rather vague:
This theoretical knowledge instruction provided by the ATO should include a certain element of formal classroom work but may include also such facilities as interactive video, slide or tape presentation, computer-based training and other media distance learning courses. so it all depends on how the CAA interpret it. I personally don't believe that the CAA will want to audit every hour that a PPL applicant says he spent reading the books or doing an online quiz, particularly not when the LAPL (A) & (H) use the same syllabus, the same exams but have no minimum study hours.

[BEagle]

However, it will mean that someone will have to sign to the effect that the student has demonstrated that he/she is ready to take the exams....

Which means that an applicant wanting to turn up at a training organisation just to take the exams before buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm will find things rather more protracted and expensive under EASA.

Shame, eh?

[BillieBob]

I personally don't believe that the CAA will want to audit every hour that a PPL applicant says he spent reading the books or doing an online quizI'm absolutely sure that they won't, they are already trying to duck their oversight responsibilities for existing FTOs and TRTOs - the question is whether they will have any choice in the matter. The bottom line is that the CAA will have to provide evidence to EASA Flight Standards that every PPL has been issued in accordance with Part-FCL and they will have to establish a procedure that produces such evidence - that may be achieved by auditing ATOs or......what?.

[BackPacker]

Which means that an applicant wanting to turn up at a training organisation just to take the exams before buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm will find things rather more protracted and expensive under EASA.

The option to do the exams before "buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm" was only ever realistically open to UK residents anyway. After all, the Florida schools operate under the CAA and thus would only accept the exams that were done at another CAA-oversighted school. That means that you have to live in the UK, or travel to the UK to do the exams.

But honestly, "getting the exams out of the way" isn't all that important before you go to Florida. After all, the exams take about an hour each, so you can have them all done in a single day. Or spread over a few days, in the breaks in between the flights. Or wait for the inevitable rainy day. Even on a three week intensive course there is enough downtime to sit all seven exams.

What is paramount before going to Florida, is to have learned all the theory and prepared yourself for the exams thoroughly (e.g. with the confuser). You should be 100% ready to take the exams immediately upon arrival. And that doesn't change with the new regulations.

[peterh337]

Which means that an applicant wanting to turn up at a training organisation just to take the exams before buggering off to some Floridian PPL puppy farm will find things rather more protracted and expensive under EASA.

Shame, eh?

No bias there, then :ugh:

Come on Nick - you should know better.

My US PPL training was a lot tougher than UK PPL training, and same goes for the IR.

[keith williams]

After all, the exams take about an hour each, so you can have them all done in a single day. Or spread over a few days, in the breaks in between the flights. Or wait for the inevitable rainy day. Even on a three week intensive course there is enough downtime to sit all seven exams.



If the students really are to be required to carry out 100 hours classroom study during this "three week intensive course" they will be hard pushed to do the flying!

It is quite clear that this new 100 hour study requirement has been generated by a group of "enthusiasts" who have failed to consider how it will compare with the ATPL requirements.

The eventual outcome will be one of the following:

1. The "enthusiasts" will win the day and PPL students will be required to do more classroom time than the ATPL students.

Or

2. It wil be treated in the same manner as the ATPL requirements and the classroom time will involve little more than doing a practice exam before taking each real exam.

Neither of these outcomes will do much to imporove the quality of PPL holders, but both will provide an excellent opportunity for the schools to squeeze more cash out of their cash cows.....er customers.

[youngskywalker]

I think if I were starting out now, and if I were unfortunate enough to have been born in Europe, I don't actually think I'd bother with aviation now, it's just not worth it anymore. Easa has screwed the pooch. If I werent so deeply involved and financially commited I'd walk away and do something else. More fun can be had flying model aircraft. Europe is politically a toilet.

[BEagle]

The only 'bias' I might have is that I strongly believe that PPl exams should be phased during the flight training course, so that they are relevant to the stage of training.

In more enlightened times, the CAA recommended which exams should be taken and in which sequence. The 'want it now, don't care how' brigade didn't just turn up to do their exams, then find somewhere cheaper to do their flying.... Whether that's in USA, Spain or Godknowswheristan is immaterial.

We used to charge nothing for PPL exams for our own students, until people joined wanting to do nothing except sit the exams before going to Florida. I don't know what the policy at that club is these days, but I would recommend that PPL exams should be free for the first attempt, but £15 for a second and that no third attempt would be permitted until the applicant had attended a specialist training provider. That would apply to the club's own students; anyone joining just to take the exams without wishing to learn to fly would be charged the same rate as the CAA now charge for 'any other ground exam'...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just as well you weren't born here then youngskywalker.

Yes we have annoying regulations to deal with, yes studying is hard work, yes EASA is populated by idiots, but flying here is just as fun as it's ever been once you've got air under the tyres.

G

[youngskywalker]

Ah, I didn't word it very well. I was born here, Scotland. 20 years in flying now and it's been the greatest passion of my life, from gliding with the VGS to flying twin turbo-props over Europe, but I'm growing increasingly tired of the bs from europe. People can only take so much before they call enough is enough. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting close. :(

[BackPacker]

We used to charge nothing for PPL exams for our own students,

At least you have that option. In the Netherlands, under the same JAR-FCL rules, even the RPL/PPL exams are administered centrally by the CBR, the same organisation that handles all drivers license exams.

Each exam is 95 euros (141 euros for CPL and up), you can only sit them in three locations in the Netherlands (assuming enough candidates per location - if not they may choose to send you to another), only at specific dates (five times a year), and before you apply you need to have a statement signed by a recognized and appropriate training facility that you are enrolled in the appropriate course with them.

Just getting that last statement signed and getting the approval back may take three weeks. And only once you have the approval can you register for an exam.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ah, I didn't word it very well. I was born here, Scotland. 20 years in flying now and it's been the greatest passion of my life, from gliding with the VGS to flying twin turbo-props over Europe, but I'm growing increasingly tired of the bs from europe. People can only take so much before they call enough is enough. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting close. :(

So just meet whatever requirements are put on you, then get on with the flying.

It works for me.

G

[peterh337]

I strongly believe that PPl exams should be phased during the flight training course, so that they are relevant to the stage of training.

That's fair, but the big other side is that if you get the exams done first, you can then train solidly, with no interruptions.

Admittedly most "solid" training is done in the USA, but there is no reason it can't be done here.

I have a plane-crazy 16 year old son. I was happy to fund his PPL at whatever flying rate he could physically manage - 1 flight a day or whatever. But not if he had a break of a few months, because that wastes most of your training and jacks up the costs, and is why the average UK PPL takes a year or more. He had 4 lessons and was getting on great, but showed no interest in the exams, so I pulled the plug on it. I've told him I want to see all exams passed and then he can restart next summer.

YSW is right about Europe, but if one sets things up just right, flying remains a whole load of fun (after you get off the ground :) ). I wouldn't stop flying for anything.

The trouble is that it is easy to end up with more hassle (on the ground) than the airborne returns one gets, and people just chuck it in. There is huge potential for ground hassle with today's airport management practices.