Non Standard Flight Level

[JimGreen]

I was cruising across a Terminal Control Area at Flt Level 340 (RVSM) on a NW track and was on direct routing to a point with the radar controller's approval. After a while I was advised by the radar controller to descend to FL 330. I complied and reported "Maintaining FL330 'Non Standard' ". To this the Controller responded "There are no non standard levels in TMA".

Im not clear about this since I was routing via the TMA and was at an RVSM Cruising Level and Yes - under Radar Control. What am I missing here?

Regards,
JG

[WhatMeanPullUp]

Jim,

It would depend on where you were flying. It is not a phrase I have heard being used but we use non-standard levels for separation purposes if the traffic requires us to do so. It also depends on the flow of traffic, for example transatlantic traffic has a Westerly flow during the day and Easterly flow at night. This results in all levels being used for the majority of the flow. Hope this is of some use. :)

Regards

[PPRuNe Radar]

Any clue as to where this occurred ??

It might provide more information to answer your query, taking in to account local specifics.

In the UK for example, there are no TMAs above FL245.

[JimGreen]

I had this interaction over Mumbai, India on a domestic route.

Regards,

JG

[pdcta]

How can you know which is the standard and non standard cruise level allocation of the airspace you're flying through???
I mean... in Italy we use a north/south system instead of the common one (east/west bound).
I can say that quadrantal level system are used only for cruise. During climb/descend phases (expecially in terminal area, approaching or leaving the airport) any level, if available, is good to be assigned!
Anyway, in Italy no TMAs above FL195 where all airspace is classified C.

[VectorLine]

Jim,

What were you hoping to achieve by appending "non standard" to your readback?
Were you perhaps trying to suggest that the controller had made an error? If so, you should have been more specific, or at least asked for confirmation.

Besides, FL330 is not a 'non-standard' flight level FL333 might be, but not FL330.

Possibly you think that evens for west and odds for east must be adhered to at all times? The semi-circular rule is only for the planning of cruising levels.

We had this sort of issue when we moved to RVSM. I remember the consternation shown by some pilots when they were allocated FL300 in the early months. A few just didn't seem to get it.

VL

[mikehammer]

What were you hoping to achieve by appending "non standard" to your readback?



Normally this is done so as to check or clarify that the instructed level has been correctly read back, and that it is indeed non standard. Where I fly the controllers regularly use the append to the phrase themselves, which again, of course is usually read back. That way everyone knows what's what.

[5milesbaby]

I think it all depends on where you are flying, the radar positions I work are generally all one way sectors so I never give a thought to issueing a correct directional level, I just give the highest or lowest available, but then most of the traffic I work is either climbing out or descending into airfields. Also, on the Dover sector at Swanwick, Maastrict accept a/c at all levels between FL250 and FL290 24/7, as long as those issued westbound levels are requesting a higher cruise FL than the one planned for transfer. Likewise on the Hurn sectors, to aid separation just south of the boundary in Brest's airspace, those exiting on a westbound track are allocated eastbound levels and the eastbound tracks coming into our airspace come at westbound levels. I think its something to do with safety :ok:

[126,7]

Maybe the controller wanted to point out to you that you are in controlled airspace and that there every level is a standard level. You will often find that you might fly a considerable distance accross Europe at a level which does not conform to the semi circular rule. Not at night either, but in the day with traffic all around.

[JimGreen]

Thank You All !!! :ok:

Regards,

JG

[pdcta]

Happens very often that Vienna make us approval request to leave westbound traffic (southbound for us) at even level (standard for them, not for us).
Very often this is a very good thing for us because travelling non standard on even levels... you automatically avoid all southbound traffc coming at odd levels from Munich Area.
The distance between the incriminated airway and Munich area is about 2/3 minutes of flight. You can understand that is better let you fly at non standard level... that making separation by 2 minutes from the Closest Point of Approach!! ;P
Approaching my boundary I'll kindly request you if you prefer climbing or descending by 1000ft due to your direction of flight...!
But I mean... when I say "identified"... who cares of everything else? You're under radar control!

OT: (same thing when pilots call "approaching level": I KNOW IT! YOU'RE UNDER RADAR CONTROL! IT MEANS THAT I READ IT ON MY RADAR TOO!!!)

[JimGreen]

Thank You Bataleur39 and PDCTA. On the Jeppesen Enroute Chart, I could find Mumbai TMA limits of FL70 upto 50nm and FL150 upto 100nm.
Mumbai has a large flow of traffic overhead and very often the Area Controller sounds like the Approach Controller. It was probably one of those times.
I guess the bottom line is 'Being Under Radar Control', which allows a lot more freedom in terms of Altitudes to be maintained and, Direct Routeing (which when bestowed is much appreciated).

Warm regards,

Jim