Fly-in-Spain: recent experience?

[s_pin180]

Anybody here have any recent experience of Fly-in-Spain at Jerez? I've searched the archives and found a number of useful threads, however they all date back to 2006.

I'm considering doing an accelerated JAA PPL there and would like to get the inside line from a recent student and whether or not they would recommend it?

Cheers!

[SkyCamMK]

Don't forget to keep some budget to learn to fly in real British weather. PPL in the sun is great but you will be better off training here if you wish to fly here regularly. It should not matter where you train for the basics but weather plays a big part in a pilot's life. I have had to retrain pilot's withh PPL's got in USA Florida region, PPL and even CPL. Take care. Choose wisely.

[hkeng]

Hi s-pin180
I have some recent experience.
PM me

[s_pin180]

Thanks for the advice SkyCamMK,

During a previous life as a glider pilot I became all too familiar with the eccentricities of the British weather. As well as the weather, may main concerns would be the airspace and R/T differences that living on such a crowded island will bring - As a result I had budgeted for some consolidation training in the UK.

Spain was and option I was considering, as there would be less risk from a whether perspective - I wanted to do intensive course as I can only take a certain amount of time off work in one go and intensive courses suit my learning style better. However, I would consider other places if you can recommend any - even in the UK. Somebody mentioned that the Channel Islands was a possibility? You know anything about this? I'd probably rather avoid the US.

Cheers

[Utfart]

I did my PPL there in 2007. pm me if you want realistic info.

[michaelthewannabe]

I was there 9 months ago.

http://mp-technical.com/ftd/?p=14

http://mp-technical.com/ftd/?page_id=23

PM me for further info...

Michael.

[LH2]

I have some recent experience.
PM me

pm me if you want realistic info.

...and if I may ask, why not post the info right on here for all to see? Are you bound by some kind of non-disclosure agreement, or what? :ugh:

I did my PPL there in 2006 and immediately posted a write-up for the benefit of others. So has michaelthewannabe done an excellent job of documenting his experience.

Did you guys not benefit from coming on here and reading all that info before making your decision to train in one place or another? Why make it difficult for others to do the same? Plus, it'll save you from having to answer PMs asking the very same question for the next three years.

[172driver]

Well said, LH2. The idea of a forum like this is to share information.....

[crap pilot]

I spent a week there last Summer and cant speak highly enough of the place. It is well run and very organized although it still retains a laid back feel. I was there as an instructor, not a student and FIS is the one place that i would love to go back to on a perminant basis.

Good weather, good instructors and a fantastic place.

[hkeng]

Hi
I came back from fly-in-spain last week. My experience there wasn't very good. Can I share your experience on how you did it there.
Many thanks
hkeng

[hkeng]

Hi LH2
Well said and totally agree with you regarding sharing of information.
I shall try and post my personal experience on the forum later. I am not bounded by any non-disclosure agreement, but I have been overcharged on my account and I am trying to get my money back. So far I have no response yet.

[michaelthewannabe]

It is well run and very organized although it still retains a laid back feel.

I had a great time there, but even in the most positive light, I really can't agree that it was well-organised! Maybe there was a more sensible instructor/student ratio when you were visiting, which would probably make the place function a whole lot better.

[Utfart]

Well, sharing is nice and I'm generally in favour, but what I had to say may have had implications of slander or libel if posted in a public forum.

[Shunter]

It's not libel if it's TRUE.

[LH2]

It's not libel if it's TRUE

...and it's not slander unless spoken :rolleyes:

[Jodelman]

...and it's not slander unless spoken

And if it's spoken on Radio or TV it's libel !!

[hkeng]

Hi all
This is my recent flying experience in spain: Wrong timing, high expectation , came back empty handed. I wonder whether I would do better if I had gone to America.
I had about 100hour in training over 3 years. Due to weather and other reasons had not flown for the last 3 months. The plan was to take 9 days time off and flown intensively for a week to revise, complete the qualifying cross country and then the skill test.
After considering the apparent hassle of the american visa and other comments on this forum, I had decided to give it a go in Spain.
Paid 1000 eure deposit for 15 hours in C172. Booked air ticket, hotel/parking and hire car. Got direction to the school,names of CFI and instructor and the time to report. Couldn't wait to go to the sunny spain.

Day 1: flight from gatwick to Seville. 1 hour delay departure. otherwise it was OK.
arrived Sevelle late evening. got the hire car and the trip to south no problem. toll hightway very good. but finding the hotel was difficult as the google map and direction pointed to an industrial area instead.

Day 2: woke up to bad weather, blusterly wind. drove to the airport. The school was in a single storey out building with a small sign on the door.Not very impressive. Mentioned the names of all my contacts, none available. The office manager was minding his computer in the corner of his office, and instructors dealing with the students. Not much creature comfort in the briefing room, couple of bench tables and a few plastic chairs.
Did the check in and filled in paper work with the manager, who didn't know who my instructor was supposed to be. Apparently there were a couple of German instrutors and a newly recruited UK instructor. So it was then decided that the UK one was my instructor. I felt that there were some sort of tension between the office manager and the instructor on how and what to do with me.( later found out that the manager himself was there only a few days earlier.) The briefing for new pilot was fairly "brief", 5 minutes may be, not the sort of two hour briefing on airspace,dadio and procedure differences etc,as had been described somewhere on this forum before. Quite a few documents and facility were written in german.
No flying today,so went out to see the A/c. about 20 shiny pa28 nicely parked on the ramp. But no, these were for the commercial pilot training school on the same airport. For this school only 3 a/c available, 1 pa28, 1 normal c172 and 1 antique c172 (50 years old). seems to be in good condition, except the old c172 was leaking a bit of oil from engine.

day 3 : better weather and flyable. but no c172 available. instructor suggested pa28. it's more expensive, although my previous experience with pa28 was with a different engine and not current, I reluctantly accepted as I wanted to fly as much as possible. Needed to file flight plan at least half an hour before any flight.
Fairly stiff cross wind, a long single tarmac runways,took off to local area with a fellow student at the back for some exercise, then return.
after a snack at the terminal, fellow student returned offer for a ride along to local training area. After that it was my turn, this time in C172 doing circuits. Felt rusty

day 4 :
flyable with strong wind. Normal c172 not available, had to fly the antique 172, different layout and manual flap control, airspeed in mph instead of knot. More circuits. Second session in the afternoon, this time back in pa28, flew to local area for vor tracking, instrument flying and unusual attitude recovery. Hood on, and with instructor throwing the a/c around the sky, felt a bit sick but managed not to throw up. then back for more circuit work.I did not seem to cope well with swapping around different type of aeroplanes. requested to stick with c172. Other student moaned and refused to fly the antique 172 and considered it a cheap alternative for the money.
Met for the first time, the general manager and the CFI, very pleasant to talk to, and they seem to know their stuff very well.

day 5: weather ok. given maps and plan nav ex to north. struggle to get info on weather, notam etc. filed flight plan and off in the antique 172. going out OK. on track and identified all major features.destination only had air to air radio, but for about 5 euro to land on a nice tarmac runway, nothing to compalin about.
On returning, missed the preflight checklist item of switching on the radio master. taxi after announcement of intension, and needed to vacate runway quickly, as one a/c was approaching final and obviousely not able to hear our announcement from our radio which was off. probably due to lack of concentration, and with stronger wind and indicated airspeed of only 90 to 95mph, went off track,and only managed to avoid flying into cloud at the last moment.

day 6; strong wind and heavy rain. no flying and nothing to do. then off to the local motorcycle racing circuit. its a official MotoGP test day, but not many people there and not a lot to see. bought an umbrella at the gate, and as expected, did not last 30 seconds.
In the evening, walk around in the old city center, stopped by 2 plain cloth policeman, shown their badge and demanded to see my passport, fortunately i had it with me. they had a look then said thank you. no problem and no hassle. But I wonder what might happened if I did not have the passport with me.

day 7: strong wind again. took off and attempted to leave the area.but too bumpy and returned. drove down to south coast and had a tour in the area for the day.

day 8: weather ok with low cloud. Went out to find some clear space and did some steep turns, and then back for more circuits.Then wait for the afternoon sessions, more vor tracking and circuits, quite a bit of waiting and orbits due to commercial traffic. flying finished.
time to settle the accounts. asked for the invoice. but instead I was asked to sign the credit card slip first,as it was otherwise difficult for the manager to do it on the computer. felt a bit odd but signed it anyway. got the invoice, noticed that there was an extra flight charged which did not happened. Manager promised to credit it back to me straight away.

day 9: left hotel and drove to Sevelle airport. traffic ok but had to wait for about half an hour to return the hire car. checked in, OK. hanged around and pick up a small clear plastic bag on the floor. Oh my goodness, a thick slab of 50 euro cash note. What to do? Handed it to the check in counter staff. May be i should have handed it to the police instead. return to Gatwick ok and back to the more predictable grey and damp weather.

comment:
weather: disappointing as the area was supposed to be one of the best region in Europe. Only 4 days flyable(some marginal) out of 7 days.
facility: Many UK local flying club fare better and with only 3 aeroplanes of different make and model available to cater for the supposedly international customers in-adequate. Not very well organised, might get better when the new manager settled in.
instructor: Did not fly with german instructror, looked mature/career instructor and not the hour-biulder type. Only 1 new UK instructor, not the style I am comfortable with, may be just a clash of personality.
aircraft maintence issue: There did not seem to have any one to do the line mainainence. e.g. defective compass and beacon light remained u/s and did not get fixed. A helicopter instructor and student arrived, but could not get the helicopter to start, and had to come back another day for the training.
customer service: Email response were prompt but once I paid the deposit, it became far and few in between. When I was back in UK and querried about discrepancy on the invoice, no one seems interested to response to my email and phone call, and now it's in the hand of my credit card company, and see if the 3% surcharge worth its money.
During my stay I had not been asked to sign the 2500 euro credit card voucher (supposedly insurance excess for student solo flight ), whether it's no longer required ,or they just knew that I am not going to fly solo.
Value for money: not cheaper than in UK. e.g.

take a pa 28 an hour for circuit training, the cost break down:pa 28---------------- 150 euro

instructor --------------40

6 touch and go---6x11= 66

landing ----------1x11= 11

total------------------ 267 plus 3% surcharge

equal ------------------214 sterling pounds
In my case, 10.5 hr of flying revision, plus accomodation/ air fare/ hire car/parking costed about 2300 pounds. Food and drink not included.

All in all, an expensive trip and not achieving the goal.
May be I should bite the bullet and get the American visa, any comment welcome.

[eltonioni]

Perhaps you should just book in at a UK school with no landing charges at £120 an hour?

[hkeng]

thanksfor the suggestion. pls pm me for available location/site

[vanHorck]

my gf recently tried to do her PPL there (in 5 weeks). She failed in that, also because she is less gifted and did not finish her theory before the flight start. However....

Some major issues:

The owner presents himself as the CFI but he is not even an instructor. He does however vent his opinions on flying things left and right and is unable to see things in aframe other than his own. Self centered i would call it.
The real CFI (Brian) is good but he was not always there and was too late there to correct the issues. Also he depends on the owner for his bread, so....
We booked the PA28 but it was not available (rented out!!!) at her start so we had to go 172. One PA28 and 2 172 is the fleet, so dont believe the website!
one 172 is a good plane, the other so old and so much movement in the control yoke she didn t feel safe and refused to fly the plane. This was unacceptable to the owner and the german instructor. There was no understanding as to the pedagogical aspects of good equipment (girls are more sensitive to that).
contrary to th website they do not provide organised groundschool.
She had 2 good UK instructors (a time builder and a pro) who nudged her along nicely but the damage with the german instructor (nasty and hurtful logs) and plane had already been done. Reverting back to the good 172 after 2 forced sorties in the bad one led to at least 5 sorties just to feel safe again..
The young ops people were friendly (hour builders). No issues
The airport is a busy one (so on her first solo circuit she had to do 3 orbits :) which i think is a good thing.
when the one 172 that she felt safe was rented out to another customer for a long weekend and therefore there was no plane to fly for her, she decided to call it a day. The owner refused to return the money(...!), it was only a few hundred pounds or less so we didn t make an issue of it. Sometimes you take your losses...

in all i feel it s a missed opportunity. great weather and food, good airport to learn (traffic) but lousy material and an owner who sees the business as a milk cow and meddles in the training.

I just hope he ll still be willing to hand over her training records to the school where she intends to finish after this.... but it was a sad month for her..... and a irritation for me...

Bert

[Bramley]

Having just spent a few days at Fly-in-Spain, I thought it would help to share my experiences. I'd read much good about the school on various forums and then, after booking, read these negative comments above. My experience was somewhat different.

I visited to complete some refresher training and complete a Licence Proficiency Check. My communications were all through email, apart from when faxing over details of my credit card for a deposit. Communication was indeed intermittent but everything was organised when I arrived: the office has a computerised booking system for each aircraft and instructor.

The school itself reminds me of flying clubs I've seen around the world - a little bit rundown, but everything that you'd need (including free wireless internet). Contrary to what's said above, there are no problems getting hold of NOTAMs, weather etc. with two computers put aside for this. Ideally there'd be a separate briefing room, but with wonderful warm weather outside there's plenty of space for private conversation.

It's true that the owner is not an instructor but it's best to see Brian Mellor's business and the school as one and the same - he is in effect CFI, overseeing the team of instructors. There are three or four fixed wing instructors, all of whom speak fluent English. I spent my time with a straight-down-the-line chap from Sheffield who provided a high standard of instruction and soon had me in shape for my LPC.

The aircraft aren't the newest, but they are well maintained, have fairly new engines and any problems are fixed as and when required. For example we experienced a transponder problem on one flight, to the chagrin of ACT, and it had been replaced by the following morning.

Jerez is a fantastic location in which to fly - good weather (although some challenging winds at times), great visibility, plenty of open space in which to fly, supportive ATC, a variety of traffic plus some interesting local fields at which to bash out a few circuits. I enjoyed flying here more than on most if not all of my flights in the UK (my original training was in New Zealand).

As for the money, well, I've not really worked it out by hour. It's not as cheap as flying in the US, but it's no more expensive than flying at a club in the UK with the added benefit of generally very good weather. Yes, I was a little daunted about handing over several hundred Euros through credit card on trust (although the point of using a credit card is that you can always get the bank to resolve any problems with breach of contract), but put yourself in Fly-in-Spain's shoes - what if someone books a series of slots and then never arrives? That's lost revenue to them. The same with the E2,500 deposit. It's on a credit card coupon and will only be used if you cause damage to the aircraft.

That said, I did meet someone on a bodegas tour who'd flown there last Autumn and not only found the flying a little dull, but also ended up with FIS trying to charge him twice. That was an administrative error rather than a conspiracy, but reflects how there is an air of mild disorganisation at the club. Your luck may vary.

My advice is to take everyone's comments, including my own, with a pinch of salt and consider the context in which they're made. Don't expect to go down there in 21 days and get a PPL - this isn't Florida, the standard of instruction is probably a good deal higher in Jerez. And don't go down after having trained intermittently over a long period of time and expect to be a brilliant pilot in moments. But in my brief time there I saw two students pass their skills tests with Brian, who's a true gentlemen and a pleasure to fly with.

As for me? Well, having not flown in almost a year, I was as rusty as I expected but still managed to renew my licence for another couple of years after some hard work. And if I hadn't passed my LPC, I wouldn't change my opinion of Fly-in-Spain.

I'm happy to answer any questions you may have, probably best to send me a PM as I don't often read these threads.

[Flying surfer]

having flown a few times in Spain and most places in the US, I would go for the US option any day. Many airfields have more than 1 flight school and if you do your research well you will get exactly what you need to do completed on time. There are some cowboys out there but not that many. If you need any advice drop me a line and i would be more than willing t point you in the right direction as i have been to the US about 8-9 times for flying and still return every couple of years to do some touring!

Good luck

[amartin86]

Hello,

I read your message and I would like you to give me more info about that school because I am thinking to go there to do the intensive PPL course.

Cheers,

Alex

[vanHorck]

Brian (CFI) is a good guy. Make your arrangements with him as to which plane you want to fly, which is the suitable instructor for you , and make the arrangements on beforehand and on paper.

My experience is that the German instructors are good for German students and the english for english students but mixing the two seems not to work too well, different cultural behavior.

What else would you like to know that is not already written on this thread?

[Bramley]

It depends on what you mean by intensive course. I wouldn't go there for a cramming session, but I would go there for good training.

[flatfilea4]

I did a JAA Night and UK IMC with FIS Nov 2007 both accelerated (packing in as much flying as possible each day).

Brian M is an excellent CFI and Instrument instructor and went well of his way to accommodate my needs - I had a very competent German instructor for the Night training - Aki - very good english and a good instructor.

I chose FIS because I only had a short time available to do the ratings and didn't trust the November UK weather.

FIS was not the cheapest option. They were very busy and there were a/c availability issues due to a/c checks and utilization.

A/C were fit for the task but not the best turned out examples that I have flown - for me it was a gift doing the IMC training because I had to compensate for the odd malfunction - seeing them (di drift and refusal to slave, and an AI topple) for real but in good weather was useful. I understand that in both cases the instruments were about to be replaced.

I arrived prepared all bookwork complete and did the IMC exam first day before any flying - I did hear moans from one student about the ground school but he had arrived unprepared. I got useful briefings from Brian between flights on theory and application.

I found Hans (then manager/owner) easy to get on with but he may not appear to be the most approachable type.

I did a couple of solo VFR flights between my training flights - found my way out and back and I found the FIS local area briefings adequate.

Great scenery and clear weather when I was there.

I would use them again but I would as before arrive as prepared as practicable for whatever course I was going to do. It may not be the most suitable place for someone that needs a fully structured ground school. I intend to go back there to hire and explore as soon as I have the time.

I have since gone on to complete a Canadian IR and the training I had with FIS was an excellent foundation for me (thanks Brian).

Cheers

[Moffaii]

I did a month at FIS in the summer of 2007. I found the daily flying invaluable as a big problem of learning in the UK is continuity. Back home progress had been slow with one lesson on average every couple of weeks (because of the typical UK weather). At FIS I flew every day bar a rest day on Sunday and that's where the cost savings come from.

On the whole, I had a very good experience. Yes, it's fair to say the atmosphere is relaxed, and the facilities are adequate but lets face it, it's not a big problem. If you expect a first class lounge with hurried efficiency, you'll get disappointed.

I loved it as I was there on holiday. I got to fly lots (mixing with big jets operating to and from XRY), got good instruction from very experienced people, met new friends, enjoyed the local culture and had plenty of time to study theory in the sun.

Brian and his instructors were great. At the time, all were career instructors with vast experience. I met a few FTE Jerez instructors away from FIS and they all hold Brian Mellor in very high regard. So do I.

As for the 50 year old 172 "old Agnes" - I used it a fair bit, flew my first solo in it and I must say was a solid, balanced a/c and fantastic to fly.

I had a great time, went from early circuits to completing my qualifying cross country and would recommend FIS to boost your flying training forward with uninterrupted good weather flying (unless youre unlucky). There is plenty of time to learn to fly in the crud when you get back to the UK.

As an added bonus, you'll learn to nail cross wind landings.

PM me if you have any questions.

[hkeng]

Hi all
I am glad to further comment on my experience in Spain. The disputed amount on the account with the flying school is now settled. I can re-iterate that the mistake was purely due to adminstrative process. My main concern was the handling of the dispute, and once communication was re-established, it did not take too long to have it settled.

After the trip to Spain, I returned and joined a samll, friendly and well organised flying club in Kent. Taking into account the unsual UK weather, my work commitment and new type of triaining aircraft, I passed the skill test in the shortest possible time. I even managed an 'excellent' remark on my Qualifing cross country certificate!!! My instructor and examiner had been bending backward to help me to achieve my PPL.

Flying holiday in Europe and beyond is now on the agenda.

Happy flying