Fly-in-Spain: recent experience?
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Fly-in-Spain: recent experience?
Anybody here have any recent experience of Fly-in-Spain at Jerez? I've searched the archives and found a number of useful threads, however they all date back to 2006.
I'm considering doing an accelerated JAA PPL there and would like to get the inside line from a recent student and whether or not they would recommend it?
Cheers!
I'm considering doing an accelerated JAA PPL there and would like to get the inside line from a recent student and whether or not they would recommend it?
Cheers!
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Don't forget to keep some budget to learn to fly in real British weather. PPL in the sun is great but you will be better off training here if you wish to fly here regularly. It should not matter where you train for the basics but weather plays a big part in a pilot's life. I have had to retrain pilot's withh PPL's got in USA Florida region, PPL and even CPL. Take care. Choose wisely.
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Thanks for the advice SkyCamMK,
During a previous life as a glider pilot I became all too familiar with the eccentricities of the British weather. As well as the weather, may main concerns would be the airspace and R/T differences that living on such a crowded island will bring - As a result I had budgeted for some consolidation training in the UK.
Spain was and option I was considering, as there would be less risk from a whether perspective - I wanted to do intensive course as I can only take a certain amount of time off work in one go and intensive courses suit my learning style better. However, I would consider other places if you can recommend any - even in the UK. Somebody mentioned that the Channel Islands was a possibility? You know anything about this? I'd probably rather avoid the US.
Cheers
During a previous life as a glider pilot I became all too familiar with the eccentricities of the British weather. As well as the weather, may main concerns would be the airspace and R/T differences that living on such a crowded island will bring - As a result I had budgeted for some consolidation training in the UK.
Spain was and option I was considering, as there would be less risk from a whether perspective - I wanted to do intensive course as I can only take a certain amount of time off work in one go and intensive courses suit my learning style better. However, I would consider other places if you can recommend any - even in the UK. Somebody mentioned that the Channel Islands was a possibility? You know anything about this? I'd probably rather avoid the US.
Cheers
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I was there 9 months ago.
http://mp-technical.com/ftd/?p=14
http://mp-technical.com/ftd/?page_id=23
PM me for further info...
Michael.
http://mp-technical.com/ftd/?p=14
http://mp-technical.com/ftd/?page_id=23
PM me for further info...
Michael.
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I have some recent experience.
PM me
PM me
pm me if you want realistic info.
I did my PPL there in 2006 and immediately posted a write-up for the benefit of others. So has michaelthewannabe done an excellent job of documenting his experience.
Did you guys not benefit from coming on here and reading all that info before making your decision to train in one place or another? Why make it difficult for others to do the same? Plus, it'll save you from having to answer PMs asking the very same question for the next three years.
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I spent a week there last Summer and cant speak highly enough of the place. It is well run and very organized although it still retains a laid back feel. I was there as an instructor, not a student and FIS is the one place that i would love to go back to on a perminant basis.
Good weather, good instructors and a fantastic place.
Good weather, good instructors and a fantastic place.
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Hi LH2
Well said and totally agree with you regarding sharing of information.
I shall try and post my personal experience on the forum later. I am not bounded by any non-disclosure agreement, but I have been overcharged on my account and I am trying to get my money back. So far I have no response yet.
Well said and totally agree with you regarding sharing of information.
I shall try and post my personal experience on the forum later. I am not bounded by any non-disclosure agreement, but I have been overcharged on my account and I am trying to get my money back. So far I have no response yet.
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It is well run and very organized although it still retains a laid back feel.
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sharing
Well, sharing is nice and I'm generally in favour, but what I had to say may have had implications of slander or libel if posted in a public forum.
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Hi all
This is my recent flying experience in spain: Wrong timing, high expectation , came back empty handed. I wonder whether I would do better if I had gone to America.
I had about 100hour in training over 3 years. Due to weather and other reasons had not flown for the last 3 months. The plan was to take 9 days time off and flown intensively for a week to revise, complete the qualifying cross country and then the skill test.
After considering the apparent hassle of the american visa and other comments on this forum, I had decided to give it a go in Spain.
Paid 1000 eure deposit for 15 hours in C172. Booked air ticket, hotel/parking and hire car. Got direction to the school,names of CFI and instructor and the time to report. Couldn't wait to go to the sunny spain.
Day 1: flight from gatwick to Seville. 1 hour delay departure. otherwise it was OK.
arrived Sevelle late evening. got the hire car and the trip to south no problem. toll hightway very good. but finding the hotel was difficult as the google map and direction pointed to an industrial area instead.
Day 2: woke up to bad weather, blusterly wind. drove to the airport. The school was in a single storey out building with a small sign on the door.Not very impressive. Mentioned the names of all my contacts, none available. The office manager was minding his computer in the corner of his office, and instructors dealing with the students. Not much creature comfort in the briefing room, couple of bench tables and a few plastic chairs.
Did the check in and filled in paper work with the manager, who didn't know who my instructor was supposed to be. Apparently there were a couple of German instrutors and a newly recruited UK instructor. So it was then decided that the UK one was my instructor. I felt that there were some sort of tension between the office manager and the instructor on how and what to do with me.( later found out that the manager himself was there only a few days earlier.) The briefing for new pilot was fairly "brief", 5 minutes may be, not the sort of two hour briefing on airspace,dadio and procedure differences etc,as had been described somewhere on this forum before. Quite a few documents and facility were written in german.
No flying today,so went out to see the A/c. about 20 shiny pa28 nicely parked on the ramp. But no, these were for the commercial pilot training school on the same airport. For this school only 3 a/c available, 1 pa28, 1 normal c172 and 1 antique c172 (50 years old). seems to be in good condition, except the old c172 was leaking a bit of oil from engine.
day 3 : better weather and flyable. but no c172 available. instructor suggested pa28. it's more expensive, although my previous experience with pa28 was with a different engine and not current, I reluctantly accepted as I wanted to fly as much as possible. Needed to file flight plan at least half an hour before any flight.
Fairly stiff cross wind, a long single tarmac runways,took off to local area with a fellow student at the back for some exercise, then return.
after a snack at the terminal, fellow student returned offer for a ride along to local training area. After that it was my turn, this time in C172 doing circuits. Felt rusty
day 4 :
flyable with strong wind. Normal c172 not available, had to fly the antique 172, different layout and manual flap control, airspeed in mph instead of knot. More circuits. Second session in the afternoon, this time back in pa28, flew to local area for vor tracking, instrument flying and unusual attitude recovery. Hood on, and with instructor throwing the a/c around the sky, felt a bit sick but managed not to throw up. then back for more circuit work.I did not seem to cope well with swapping around different type of aeroplanes. requested to stick with c172. Other student moaned and refused to fly the antique 172 and considered it a cheap alternative for the money.
Met for the first time, the general manager and the CFI, very pleasant to talk to, and they seem to know their stuff very well.
day 5: weather ok. given maps and plan nav ex to north. struggle to get info on weather, notam etc. filed flight plan and off in the antique 172. going out OK. on track and identified all major features.destination only had air to air radio, but for about 5 euro to land on a nice tarmac runway, nothing to compalin about.
On returning, missed the preflight checklist item of switching on the radio master. taxi after announcement of intension, and needed to vacate runway quickly, as one a/c was approaching final and obviousely not able to hear our announcement from our radio which was off. probably due to lack of concentration, and with stronger wind and indicated airspeed of only 90 to 95mph, went off track,and only managed to avoid flying into cloud at the last moment.
day 6; strong wind and heavy rain. no flying and nothing to do. then off to the local motorcycle racing circuit. its a official MotoGP test day, but not many people there and not a lot to see. bought an umbrella at the gate, and as expected, did not last 30 seconds.
In the evening, walk around in the old city center, stopped by 2 plain cloth policeman, shown their badge and demanded to see my passport, fortunately i had it with me. they had a look then said thank you. no problem and no hassle. But I wonder what might happened if I did not have the passport with me.
day 7: strong wind again. took off and attempted to leave the area.but too bumpy and returned. drove down to south coast and had a tour in the area for the day.
day 8: weather ok with low cloud. Went out to find some clear space and did some steep turns, and then back for more circuits.Then wait for the afternoon sessions, more vor tracking and circuits, quite a bit of waiting and orbits due to commercial traffic. flying finished.
time to settle the accounts. asked for the invoice. but instead I was asked to sign the credit card slip first,as it was otherwise difficult for the manager to do it on the computer. felt a bit odd but signed it anyway. got the invoice, noticed that there was an extra flight charged which did not happened. Manager promised to credit it back to me straight away.
day 9: left hotel and drove to Sevelle airport. traffic ok but had to wait for about half an hour to return the hire car. checked in, OK. hanged around and pick up a small clear plastic bag on the floor. Oh my goodness, a thick slab of 50 euro cash note. What to do? Handed it to the check in counter staff. May be i should have handed it to the police instead. return to Gatwick ok and back to the more predictable grey and damp weather.
comment:
weather: disappointing as the area was supposed to be one of the best region in Europe. Only 4 days flyable(some marginal) out of 7 days.
facility: Many UK local flying club fare better and with only 3 aeroplanes of different make and model available to cater for the supposedly international customers in-adequate. Not very well organised, might get better when the new manager settled in.
instructor: Did not fly with german instructror, looked mature/career instructor and not the hour-biulder type. Only 1 new UK instructor, not the style I am comfortable with, may be just a clash of personality.
aircraft maintence issue: There did not seem to have any one to do the line mainainence. e.g. defective compass and beacon light remained u/s and did not get fixed. A helicopter instructor and student arrived, but could not get the helicopter to start, and had to come back another day for the training.
customer service: Email response were prompt but once I paid the deposit, it became far and few in between. When I was back in UK and querried about discrepancy on the invoice, no one seems interested to response to my email and phone call, and now it's in the hand of my credit card company, and see if the 3% surcharge worth its money.
During my stay I had not been asked to sign the 2500 euro credit card voucher (supposedly insurance excess for student solo flight ), whether it's no longer required ,or they just knew that I am not going to fly solo.
Value for money: not cheaper than in UK. e.g.
take a pa 28 an hour for circuit training, the cost break down:
All in all, an expensive trip and not achieving the goal.
May be I should bite the bullet and get the American visa, any comment welcome.
This is my recent flying experience in spain: Wrong timing, high expectation , came back empty handed. I wonder whether I would do better if I had gone to America.
I had about 100hour in training over 3 years. Due to weather and other reasons had not flown for the last 3 months. The plan was to take 9 days time off and flown intensively for a week to revise, complete the qualifying cross country and then the skill test.
After considering the apparent hassle of the american visa and other comments on this forum, I had decided to give it a go in Spain.
Paid 1000 eure deposit for 15 hours in C172. Booked air ticket, hotel/parking and hire car. Got direction to the school,names of CFI and instructor and the time to report. Couldn't wait to go to the sunny spain.
Day 1: flight from gatwick to Seville. 1 hour delay departure. otherwise it was OK.
arrived Sevelle late evening. got the hire car and the trip to south no problem. toll hightway very good. but finding the hotel was difficult as the google map and direction pointed to an industrial area instead.
Day 2: woke up to bad weather, blusterly wind. drove to the airport. The school was in a single storey out building with a small sign on the door.Not very impressive. Mentioned the names of all my contacts, none available. The office manager was minding his computer in the corner of his office, and instructors dealing with the students. Not much creature comfort in the briefing room, couple of bench tables and a few plastic chairs.
Did the check in and filled in paper work with the manager, who didn't know who my instructor was supposed to be. Apparently there were a couple of German instrutors and a newly recruited UK instructor. So it was then decided that the UK one was my instructor. I felt that there were some sort of tension between the office manager and the instructor on how and what to do with me.( later found out that the manager himself was there only a few days earlier.) The briefing for new pilot was fairly "brief", 5 minutes may be, not the sort of two hour briefing on airspace,dadio and procedure differences etc,as had been described somewhere on this forum before. Quite a few documents and facility were written in german.
No flying today,so went out to see the A/c. about 20 shiny pa28 nicely parked on the ramp. But no, these were for the commercial pilot training school on the same airport. For this school only 3 a/c available, 1 pa28, 1 normal c172 and 1 antique c172 (50 years old). seems to be in good condition, except the old c172 was leaking a bit of oil from engine.
day 3 : better weather and flyable. but no c172 available. instructor suggested pa28. it's more expensive, although my previous experience with pa28 was with a different engine and not current, I reluctantly accepted as I wanted to fly as much as possible. Needed to file flight plan at least half an hour before any flight.
Fairly stiff cross wind, a long single tarmac runways,took off to local area with a fellow student at the back for some exercise, then return.
after a snack at the terminal, fellow student returned offer for a ride along to local training area. After that it was my turn, this time in C172 doing circuits. Felt rusty
day 4 :
flyable with strong wind. Normal c172 not available, had to fly the antique 172, different layout and manual flap control, airspeed in mph instead of knot. More circuits. Second session in the afternoon, this time back in pa28, flew to local area for vor tracking, instrument flying and unusual attitude recovery. Hood on, and with instructor throwing the a/c around the sky, felt a bit sick but managed not to throw up. then back for more circuit work.I did not seem to cope well with swapping around different type of aeroplanes. requested to stick with c172. Other student moaned and refused to fly the antique 172 and considered it a cheap alternative for the money.
Met for the first time, the general manager and the CFI, very pleasant to talk to, and they seem to know their stuff very well.
day 5: weather ok. given maps and plan nav ex to north. struggle to get info on weather, notam etc. filed flight plan and off in the antique 172. going out OK. on track and identified all major features.destination only had air to air radio, but for about 5 euro to land on a nice tarmac runway, nothing to compalin about.
On returning, missed the preflight checklist item of switching on the radio master. taxi after announcement of intension, and needed to vacate runway quickly, as one a/c was approaching final and obviousely not able to hear our announcement from our radio which was off. probably due to lack of concentration, and with stronger wind and indicated airspeed of only 90 to 95mph, went off track,and only managed to avoid flying into cloud at the last moment.
day 6; strong wind and heavy rain. no flying and nothing to do. then off to the local motorcycle racing circuit. its a official MotoGP test day, but not many people there and not a lot to see. bought an umbrella at the gate, and as expected, did not last 30 seconds.
In the evening, walk around in the old city center, stopped by 2 plain cloth policeman, shown their badge and demanded to see my passport, fortunately i had it with me. they had a look then said thank you. no problem and no hassle. But I wonder what might happened if I did not have the passport with me.
day 7: strong wind again. took off and attempted to leave the area.but too bumpy and returned. drove down to south coast and had a tour in the area for the day.
day 8: weather ok with low cloud. Went out to find some clear space and did some steep turns, and then back for more circuits.Then wait for the afternoon sessions, more vor tracking and circuits, quite a bit of waiting and orbits due to commercial traffic. flying finished.
time to settle the accounts. asked for the invoice. but instead I was asked to sign the credit card slip first,as it was otherwise difficult for the manager to do it on the computer. felt a bit odd but signed it anyway. got the invoice, noticed that there was an extra flight charged which did not happened. Manager promised to credit it back to me straight away.
day 9: left hotel and drove to Sevelle airport. traffic ok but had to wait for about half an hour to return the hire car. checked in, OK. hanged around and pick up a small clear plastic bag on the floor. Oh my goodness, a thick slab of 50 euro cash note. What to do? Handed it to the check in counter staff. May be i should have handed it to the police instead. return to Gatwick ok and back to the more predictable grey and damp weather.
comment:
weather: disappointing as the area was supposed to be one of the best region in Europe. Only 4 days flyable(some marginal) out of 7 days.
facility: Many UK local flying club fare better and with only 3 aeroplanes of different make and model available to cater for the supposedly international customers in-adequate. Not very well organised, might get better when the new manager settled in.
instructor: Did not fly with german instructror, looked mature/career instructor and not the hour-biulder type. Only 1 new UK instructor, not the style I am comfortable with, may be just a clash of personality.
aircraft maintence issue: There did not seem to have any one to do the line mainainence. e.g. defective compass and beacon light remained u/s and did not get fixed. A helicopter instructor and student arrived, but could not get the helicopter to start, and had to come back another day for the training.
customer service: Email response were prompt but once I paid the deposit, it became far and few in between. When I was back in UK and querried about discrepancy on the invoice, no one seems interested to response to my email and phone call, and now it's in the hand of my credit card company, and see if the 3% surcharge worth its money.
During my stay I had not been asked to sign the 2500 euro credit card voucher (supposedly insurance excess for student solo flight ), whether it's no longer required ,or they just knew that I am not going to fly solo.
Value for money: not cheaper than in UK. e.g.
take a pa 28 an hour for circuit training, the cost break down:
pa 28---------------- 150 euro
instructor --------------40
6 touch and go---6x11= 66
landing ----------1x11= 11
total------------------ 267 plus 3% surcharge
equal ------------------214 sterling pounds
In my case, 10.5 hr of flying revision, plus accomodation/ air fare/ hire car/parking costed about 2300 pounds. Food and drink not included.All in all, an expensive trip and not achieving the goal.
May be I should bite the bullet and get the American visa, any comment welcome.
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fly in spain
my gf recently tried to do her PPL there (in 5 weeks). She failed in that, also because she is less gifted and did not finish her theory before the flight start. However....
Some major issues:
The owner presents himself as the CFI but he is not even an instructor. He does however vent his opinions on flying things left and right and is unable to see things in aframe other than his own. Self centered i would call it.
The real CFI (Brian) is good but he was not always there and was too late there to correct the issues. Also he depends on the owner for his bread, so....
We booked the PA28 but it was not available (rented out!!!) at her start so we had to go 172. One PA28 and 2 172 is the fleet, so dont believe the website!
one 172 is a good plane, the other so old and so much movement in the control yoke she didn t feel safe and refused to fly the plane. This was unacceptable to the owner and the german instructor. There was no understanding as to the pedagogical aspects of good equipment (girls are more sensitive to that).
contrary to th website they do not provide organised groundschool.
She had 2 good UK instructors (a time builder and a pro) who nudged her along nicely but the damage with the german instructor (nasty and hurtful logs) and plane had already been done. Reverting back to the good 172 after 2 forced sorties in the bad one led to at least 5 sorties just to feel safe again..
The young ops people were friendly (hour builders). No issues
The airport is a busy one (so on her first solo circuit she had to do 3 orbits
which i think is a good thing.
when the one 172 that she felt safe was rented out to another customer for a long weekend and therefore there was no plane to fly for her, she decided to call it a day. The owner refused to return the money(...!), it was only a few hundred pounds or less so we didn t make an issue of it. Sometimes you take your losses...
in all i feel it s a missed opportunity. great weather and food, good airport to learn (traffic) but lousy material and an owner who sees the business as a milk cow and meddles in the training.
I just hope he ll still be willing to hand over her training records to the school where she intends to finish after this.... but it was a sad month for her..... and a irritation for me...
Bert
Some major issues:
The owner presents himself as the CFI but he is not even an instructor. He does however vent his opinions on flying things left and right and is unable to see things in aframe other than his own. Self centered i would call it.
The real CFI (Brian) is good but he was not always there and was too late there to correct the issues. Also he depends on the owner for his bread, so....
We booked the PA28 but it was not available (rented out!!!) at her start so we had to go 172. One PA28 and 2 172 is the fleet, so dont believe the website!
one 172 is a good plane, the other so old and so much movement in the control yoke she didn t feel safe and refused to fly the plane. This was unacceptable to the owner and the german instructor. There was no understanding as to the pedagogical aspects of good equipment (girls are more sensitive to that).
contrary to th website they do not provide organised groundschool.
She had 2 good UK instructors (a time builder and a pro) who nudged her along nicely but the damage with the german instructor (nasty and hurtful logs) and plane had already been done. Reverting back to the good 172 after 2 forced sorties in the bad one led to at least 5 sorties just to feel safe again..
The young ops people were friendly (hour builders). No issues
The airport is a busy one (so on her first solo circuit she had to do 3 orbits
which i think is a good thing.when the one 172 that she felt safe was rented out to another customer for a long weekend and therefore there was no plane to fly for her, she decided to call it a day. The owner refused to return the money(...!), it was only a few hundred pounds or less so we didn t make an issue of it. Sometimes you take your losses...
in all i feel it s a missed opportunity. great weather and food, good airport to learn (traffic) but lousy material and an owner who sees the business as a milk cow and meddles in the training.
I just hope he ll still be willing to hand over her training records to the school where she intends to finish after this.... but it was a sad month for her..... and a irritation for me...
Bert