BMI

[LHRKLBD]

Thought I would start up a new thread on BMI/Regional/Baby as the merger is now complete.

Anyone know about the annoucement on Wednesday ?

[Grackle]

I expect that it will be an earth-shaking announcement of a change in the colour of post-it pads available at the Hall - but that the new ones will only be available in 10 years ...

[bmia330]

What merger?? Have I missed something here? :ooh:

[NZ787-919]

???? is it good or bad news

[DTVAirport]

What merger?? Have I missed something here?
I think he means bmi-BMED.

[K.Whyjelly]

After agreeing Open Skies to Pakistan it might be to announce our "new and exciting" routes to Lahore and Somewhereisbad. I'll ask a cleaner and get back to you................:}

[LHRKLBD]

There were the nasty questionaires flying around again at the end of last year. Perhaps its another "New" Business Model.

Plus I did mean the BMI/BMed merger.

[speedtouch]

Recently heard that BA will make an important strategic announcement on Tues [tomorrow] and bmi and Wed - anyone shoot me if I put 2+2 = 5? If anyone knows more - please enlighten the rest of us! Promise I won't tell.:oh:

Regards,

Speedtouch

[GBALU53]

Don,t be to hasty it might not be all good news.
The best thing is to wait and see what the package is when all is revealed on wednesday, there might be some surprises but on the other hand there might be some dissappointments.

[LHRKLBD]

I'm gonna say disapointments mostly.

[rog747]

i used to work for BMA at LHR 77-85:O

i woz duty traffic ops-coordinator (oooh) i had losta gold rings on my arm and we had to wear caps or we woz told off

it was super fun

my office was on the ramp A9 then B2 by the jetties

anyone remember me ?

rog;)
andy cookson worked with me
paul cookson
scottie nick neil hawkswood martin cole don anderson erm who else?

[Little Blue]

HA HA ! U guys really crack me up !
If BA buy us on tue/wed then I'll do the hokey cokey, naked, all the way down 27L and back up 27R !

[LHRKLBD]

This is true why have a BA annoucement on Tuesday to say they have bought us. Only to Have BMI do the same thing on Wednesday. MAkes no sense.

Probably just an annoucement about leasing some a/c to cover the bmeds routes. 757 or 767.

[4567]

Will BMI be operating charter flights out of PIK in summer 08 for Seguro Holidays ?

[TCX69]

It's bmi and not BMI. := lol

[GBALU53]

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly,this will be the result of the annocement on Wednesday.

[brian_dromey]

maybe reabsorbance of WW into mainline? Or a new fleet?

I'd guess its a 757/767 announcement though.

Brian.

[egnxema]

Was the "BA Stratigic Annoucement" that it will be the London 2012 Official Airline?

Quelle Surprise!

[6chimes]

There has been some talk that bmi are still interested in flying across the pond and are seeking a partner. Maybe its more news about code shares.

Or that there is going to be another route added on to the JED like Damman on the RUH. I had heard someplace beginning with S, but can't remember the name so I can't put it here.

What about the SAS shares, anyone bought them yet?

6

[max nightstop]

Maybe it's going to be...

"Today we pushed the Autoroster button on the AIMS machine"

:ugh:

[RAPC]

Maybe it will be the re-introduction of the all too popular Leeds Bradford - Lille route that was cruelly cut so early on last year. :eek:

We'll find out soon enough.

[airhumberside]

Or that there is going to be another route added on to the JED like Damman on the RUH. I had heard someplace beginning with S, but can't remember the name so I can't put it here.
Sana'a in Yemen? Just a guess

[BMEDFO]

Rumour is midhaul is going to subleased out onto 757s.....

[SinBin]

I heard only Tehran and Freetown, leased to Astraeas. I also heard a rumour that Flybe have put the 'for sale' sign up and there is a rumour that a major legacy carrier is interested that isn't BA???

[LHRKLBD]

Annoucement is probably that bmi have leased 2 757 from Astraeas to cover some of the mid-haul flights.

Possiblity of buying another carrier possibley but i doubt it.

[GLENO]

Moving all the A330 ops back to Manchester again?:}

Anybody know when the annoucement will be made tomorrow?....I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:}

[GW76]

Youre easily pleased with a bit of leased 757 news

[ladyflyby]

I can't understand the logic behind leasing a 757 from Astraeus and taking it down to Freetown, when Astraeus already do that :ugh:

[BMEDFO]

Tehran, Almaty and Freetown will be flown on leased 757's.

It's expensive to have long nightstops, this way bmi can operate the 321's around the middle east on a daily basis and not leave crews for days on end wasting money....

The 321 is the wrong aircraft for the routes, bmi are making a sound business decision and leasing out.

[ladyflyby]

Agree 100% that 321's are the wrong aircraft to use on some of these routes but we have worked them hard and used them to their full potential! But now it depends on whether or not they will fill them, Astraeus 757's are notoriously fraught with technical problems and Lufty (correct me if I'm wrong) use 330's on IKA and ALA.

[TCX69]

Any announcement yet??

[pointless username]

I'm sure you'll see it on the intranet first, and most announcements are usually made at about 1653 just before close of business.

[airhumberside]

Tehran, Almaty and Freetown will be flown on leased 757's.Will this see Dakar delinked from Freetown and Almaty delinked from Ekateringburg

[queenvic]

is there really going to be annoucement or just someone taking the p***!

[JSmiths]

Any news yet?

[LHRKLBD]

I'm thinking there's no annoucement today, or what ever it was fell through. :ugh:

[747-436]

BMED should have been using 757's for those routes! Perhaps BMI are realising this!!

I'm thinking there's no annoucement today, or what ever it was fell through


With regards to announcments at airlines they rarely publicise there is going to be one, things get announced as and when they happen!! If they did say there was going to be an anouncement and then whatever it was fell through they would look a bit stupid!

[BMEDFO]

Your correct 747-436, BMED should have had the 757 and where offered 757s by BA but they declined.

The 757 slots in nicely to the network. Lets not forget its NOT about vast passenger numbers, but lots of business class paying pax, CARGO and going direct. The A321 couldn't offer us Cargo or direct services. :ugh:

When it was all to late BMED approached BA to get widebodies (A340s) but this was rejected by BA as was pretty much any new route BMED wanted to do.

Until the sale (if its for sale and we all know its really for sale) of bmi is complete leasing out the routes to a 757 operator will generate more ££ in the bank.

[Topslide6]

Until the sale (if its for sale and we all know its really for sale)

Sorry, do we? :rolleyes:

[BMEDFO]

no :hmm:

But I think so :eek: Don't you? :cool:

[Topslide6]

I did. Now i'm really not so sure to be honest, and i'm glad! :ok:

[NZ787-919]

something in the line of 3x 757's being leased out :bored:

[clearskyahead51]

bmi is now recruiting cabin crew for the summer on the A330 out of LHR. Any idea why? Are they planning to operate more routes with the A330 from LHR? CAI,TLV?

[SinBin]

rumour has it Lahore!

[lexxity]

So I take it we can kiss the BGI/ANU/LAS goodbye then? Typical.

[roy2711]

I think that we can safely say bmi 2nd 330 will stay at manchester at least till mar09 (then who knows)
The 757s looks like it will happen as astreus are rethinking there route network and will be dropping the FNA which will free up the a/c for us to use on a direct LHR-FNA and as correctly stated previously drop the DKR portion
All very interesting times ahead and good to see bmi being proactive for once :}

[Flightlevel001]

Sorry if this is already common knowledge, but you guys seem to know what you're talking about...

What is the status with the A330's bmi had on order? From what I understand, things changed last Oct when they couldn't get the correct cabin fit-out? So, did that mean that the 330's were cancelled or just posponed? If so, what is the status on this? Any news on when they might finally be delivered?

It seems to me that bmi are a little short of a/c at the moment (the leased 75's being a bit of an indication), are there any plans to make any firm orders soon - or is that a bit too much to ask of them at the moment!?

Cheers guys, :)

[wingattack]

PR05
13 Feb 2008


bmi further expands mid haul network at Heathrow
- airline to lease two Boeing 757s to increase capacity and improve schedules
to Almaty and Freetown
- increases capacity to Tel Aviv
- strong performance of former BMED routes

bmi, London Heathrow’s second largest airline, is to lease two Boeing 757-200 aircraft to further expand its mid haul strategy from Heathrow. The aircraft will be used to increase capacity and to significantly improve schedules to the existing destinations of Almaty and Freetown. In addition, the airline’s new Heathrow to Tel Aviv service, which commences on 13 March with an Airbus A321, will also benefit from an upgrade in capacity to the Boeing 757 shortly after the route is launched.

From 1 May new non-stop links from Heathrow to both Almaty in Kazakhstan and Freetown will be introduced. Flying times to the Sierra Leone capital will be reduced by over an hour and a half and the route will also be enhanced by the addition of an extra flight, taking the total to four flights a week. The introduction of non-stop flights between Heathrow and Almaty will reduce flying time each way by two hours. The new Heathrow to Tel Aviv service – which is selling beyond expectations - will be upgraded on six days a week to a Boeing 757 which will considerably increase capacity on the route. Bishkek, previously operated via Yerevan, will now operate via Almaty, thus reducing the onward flight time compared to the previous intermediate point as well as benefiting from the larger Boeing 757 aircraft.

The introduction of these two Boeing 757s into the bmi fleet will also enable schedule enhancements and increases in capacity to existing Airbus A321 operations. Services from Heathrow to Ekaterinburg and Yerevan will now not operate to destinations beyond, thus increasing their point to point capacity and improving flight schedules. A much improved daily schedule between Heathrow and Tehran will also be introduced. The changes will enable bmi to offer far more attractive schedules as well as improving connection timings and offering a wider range of destinations via Heathrow, particularly with flights to and from the USA.

Nigel Turner, chief executive officer of bmi, said: “We strongly believe that in order to continue the development of the mid haul network, now is the time to upgrade capacity and the aircraft range on certain routes that will clearly benefit from non-stop services. We also think it is important to make the timing improvements we have identified in order to maximise their convenience and competitiveness as well as extending the range of connections that are available at Heathrow.

“The delivery of suitable Airbus A330 aircraft is a little way away and we do not want to delay the range of service enhancements unveiled today. By leasing the two Boeing 757s, pending the sourcing of suitable A330 aircraft, we are able to accelerate our Heathrow growth and ensure that we can maintain the momentum of our mid haul route strategy, laying strong foundations for future developments in this important market.

“The former BMED routes that were integrated into the bmi network at the start of the winter timetable are performing extremely well and showing strong growth in passenger numbers and revenue generation. Their performance is a clear vindication of the sound strategic decision we made to invest in the acquisition of BMED to further develop our mid haul network at London Heathrow.

“Despite only starting in November, the integration of these services into bmi is already having a positive effect on the business.”

The two 757 aircraft have been damp-leased* from Astraeus for an initial two year period with an option to extend. Two separate cabins will offer 28 business class seats with a 50 inch seat pitch and 138 seats in economy with a 32 inch seat pitch.

The introduction of the network changes will result unfortunately in the suspension of services between Heathrow and Dakar.

*damp-leased means the aircraft will operate with an Astraeus flight crew but a bmi cabin crew

ends

note to editors

• London Heathrow – Freetown
BD992 dep Heathrow 13:30, arr Freetown 19:20 (Mon & Wed)
BD992 dep Heathrow 12:50, arr Freetown 18:40 (Fri & Sun)

Freetown – Heathrow
BD993 dep Freetown 02:00, arr Heathrow 09:35 (Mon & Thur)
BD993 dep Freetown 02:15, arr Heathrow 09:50 (Tues)
BD993 dep Freetown 02:25, arr Heathrow 10:00 (Sat)

• London Heathrow – Almaty
BD990 dep Heathrow 13:00, arr Almaty 01:10 (Mon)
BD990 dep Heathrow 13:30, arr Almaty 01:40 (Thur & Sun)

Almaty – Heathrow
BD991 dep Almaty 07:05, arr Heathrow 09:50 (Fri & Sun)
BD991 dep Almaty 12:20, arr Heathrow 15:05 (Tues)

• London Heathrow – Tehran
BD931 dep Heathrow 18:30, arr Tehran 03:50 (Daily)
Tehran– Heathrow
BD932 dep Tehran 08:15, arr Heathrow 11:15 (Daily)

• London Heathrow – Bishkek
BD965 dep Heathrow 12:45, arr Bishkek 02:20 (Mon, Fri, Sun)
Bishkek – Heathrow
BD966 dep Bishkek 07:05, arr Heathrow 11:15 (Mon, Tue, Sat)

All flight times are local and subject to final confirmation

• bmi is the second largest airline at London Heathrow, one of the world’s busiest and best connected airports. Across its full mainline and regional network, bmi operates 1,800 flights a week to: Aberdeen; Addis Ababa; Aleppo; Almaty; Amsterdam; Ankara; Antigua; Baku; Barbados; Beirut; Belfast City; Bishkek; Brussels; Cairo; Chicago; Cologne; Copenhagen; Dakar; Damascus; Dammam (from March 2008); Dublin; Durham Tees Valley; East Midlands; Edinburgh; Ekaterinburg; Esbjerg; Freetown; Glasgow; Groningen; Hanover; Inverness; Jeddah; Jersey; Khartoum; Las Vegas; Leeds Bradford; London Heathrow; Lyon; Manchester; Moscow Domodedovo; Naples (summer only); Norwich; Palma Mallorca; Riyadh; Tbilisi; Tehran; Tel Aviv (from March 2008); Venice; Yerevan; Zurich.

• bmi is a member of Star Alliance, established in 1997 as the first truly global airline alliance to offer customers worldwide reach and a smooth travel experience. Star Alliance was voted Best Airline Alliance by Business Traveller Magazine in 2003, 2006 and 2007 and by Skytrax in 2003, 2005 and 2007. The members are Air Canada, Air China, Air New Zealand, ANA, Asiana Airlines, Austrian, bmi, LOT Polish Airlines, Lufthansa, Scandinavian Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, Singapore Airlines, South African Airways, Spanair, SWISS, TAP Portugal, THAI, United and US Airways. Regional member carriers Adria Airways (Slovenia), Blue1 (Finland) and Croatia Airlines enhance the global network. Air India, EgyptAir and Turkish Airlines have been accepted as future members. Overall, the Star Alliance network offers more than 17,000 daily flights to 897 destinations in 160 countries.

for further information contact bmi corporate communications
tel: +44 (0)1332 854687
email: [email protected]
or visit our dedicated online media centre at www.bmimediacentre.com

[TCX69]

G-STRX and G-STRY by any chance? Is that why they are still all white?!

[A330Ryan]

What happened to the A330s that were being delivered this year?

I don't understand how bmi can say they will use the 2 757s whilst looking for a suitable A330 when they were meant to be getting them this year anyway for openskies! Have these a/c now been assigned to another airline??

I don't understand bmi's way of thinking! :ugh:

[TCX69]

Hmm so why not use their own A330's that they were due to get anyway instead of leasing someone else's 757's. Yeah wonder why. Maybe bmi didn't realize the bad range of the A321 when they deferred the A330 order. :confused:

[752_driver]

Lots of flying for just two airframes!

[Max Angle]

Great, a real boost for senior FOs command prospects, 2 years of someone else (again) doing work that our pilots should be doing.

[upandoffmyside]

bmi - "the airline for leasing in......."

Arkefly, Icelandair, bmi Regional and now Astraeus.

And the Balpa response this time ......?

[RhysD]

I believe certain A320 and A321 aircraft were being flown to LHT's facilities in Budapest and Malta and I was just wondering what the exact purpose of these visits were? Aircraft checks or interior upgrades etc? Cheers...

[TCX69]

Repaint maybe? Yeah right!! :ugh:

[K.Whyjelly]

Good point Max Angle especially as some of the more senior guys have been waiting for commands for in excess of a decade.

What price loyalty????????????????:bored:

[Lear Driver]

The press release says Bishkek will be done via Almaty however
looking at the Bishkek shedules, the days and LHR departure
times dont match the Almaty ones! Also the flight numbers are
different.:confused:

[aeulad]

2 757s will operate

3 weekly
LHR-ALA-FRU-ALA-LHR
4 weekly
LHR-FNA-LHR
6 weekly
LHR-TLV-LHR

I don't understand why they are using the 75 on the TLV. Why not put it on the IKA and avoid any weight penalties, use the similar capacity 321 to TLV?

Regards

Mike

[TCX69]

I wonder if we'll be seeing yet more intermediate bmi liveries? Or will they be fully painted into bmi livery. With a 2 year lease I'd presume they'd be fully painted but I'm no holding my breath!

[SR71]

Astraeus @ bmi = Openskies @ BA.

Discuss.

[sweetie76]

Thought there was some deal which prevented this sort of thing........

[RhysD]

Just wondering if anyone can remember the type of aircraft BM had based at East Midlands for Summer 2001? I'd imagine there would've been some Fokkers but were there some 737s as well? Cheers...

[AboveMSA]

With the leasing of Astraeus 757's being detrimental to future command opportunities for bmi S/FO's, are there any protective agreements in place for those bmi guys? :confused:

[Old King Coal]

AboveMSA - Get real!

It should be remembered that the reason Astraeus' B757's have been brought in to do the Alamaty & Freetown flights is basically because the Bus' ain't got the legs of the 757. It's simply good commercial sense... and therein perhaps all them SFO's shouild've got a 757 rating and joined Astraeus? :rolleyes:

[sweetie76]

So, according to your logic, an expansion of, say, another 6 x 757s is ok even if it means a reduction in Airbus (read redundancies) airframes?

[Topslide6]

sweetie76,

I don't think that's what he/she's saying at all. Surely you can understand that if bmi doesn't have the correct aircraft in the fleet to provide the extra capacity required, then, in the short term, there is no option but to lease in other aircraft.

I know this is an absolute pain in the @rse for those SFO's waiting for their command, but you can't seriously be suggesting that because these aircraft are not bmi's flown by bmi crew then the business should stagnate and potentially miss out on large growth on these routes until the correct aircraft can be aquired?

As Old King Cole says, as annoying as this is, it does make sound commercial sense, and this has absolutely no parrellels to the BA/Openskies issue.

[SADDLER]

In case no one answers your entirely reasonable question, the answer is yes.

[sweetie76]

It's purely that I understand there is some mechanism within bmi to prevent aircraft in bmi colours at LHR being flown by anyone but mainline pilots. I also understand the Emb has been operating against this agreement with impunity for several years.

Isn't it understandable for some FOs to view this continuing breach of said agreement as a further betrayal? Especially in view of the 2-year timescale.

Were the pilots consulted/informed about this 'sensible, commercial decision' and the possible ramifications before the decision was made?

(Before you ask, I don't work for bmi.)

[SR71]

I have no idea when the alleged A330's that bmi has on order will arrive (the Astraeus lease would suggest 2 years time?), but lets say the delivery slips by a further year, that would be 3 years of bmi flightdeck work being done by contract pilots....

Lets say the airline then realise that operating an exclusive Airbus fleet for their evolving mid/long haul network is daft because it doesn't match the route/capacity profile and get some old Boeing 757/767's in from BA as they trade up to their 787's in 2010 (prior, of course, to bmi taking possession of their own 787's...or will it be A350's?).

That'd upset a few of you wouldn't it? Had the airline invested in "the business" some of you would have 2000+ P1 hrs by then on type....

:confused:

[Topslide6]

I take your point, but irrespective of any agreement, if bmi can't get the appropriate airframes to operate themselves, they have to do something to bridge the gap. Are you saying by honouring an agreement, they should continue with the 321's and harm the business? I would expect the vast majority of bmi pilots, although understandably hacked off with the situation, would understand why it's come about. Personally, I find it laughable that the all singing and dancing Airbuses are not upto the job, and old 757's are being brought in to do the job properly!

I wholeheartedly agree that it is not a satisfactory situation for the SFO's, but no business could sit back and miss an opportunity like the one bmi have. I'd rather the 757's now, make money and invest it back into all three parts of the business for the future.

[SR71]

No, I'm saying perhaps they should dry lease the aircraft and type-rate some of their own pilots (20?)....on the basis that they'll probably have Boeings again in the fleet at some time in the future.

That is investment in the business.

What they are doing is investing in Astraeus business.

Just curious as to the issue with an investment driven option of that ilk?

[Halfwayback]

I think it is worth looking at the memo posted in the bmi forum

For the pilots, there will be different requirements. The aircraft will be damp-leased from Astraeous and the initial plan is to operate with their flight deck crew members. There maybe opportunities for bmi pilots to convert temporarily to the B757, but in any event, all arrangements will be made after consultation with pilot representation and in accordance with applicable provisions in the AFS (Agreement for Service).[/

It is premature to comment on the outcome of those consultations.

However - the destinations for the 757s are certainly not the most delightful.

HWB

[North Stand Tier3]

2001 - Saab 340s(bless them), Embraers (and possibly the 321 for First Choice?) aswell as the Fokkers. Still miss the breakfasts..................

Right,I'll get me coat............

[RhysD]

Cheers North Stand! That's interesting to hear how varied the based fleet was in 2001!

[INKJET]

bmi do already have several hundred Boeing rated pilots (at baby) and mainline may well end up baby sitting for baby this year whilst baby awaits replacement aircraft, which in turn will delay command up grades for baby SFO's and delay the movement of pilots from regional to baby and therefore delay command upgrades at regional and delay new starter from joining regional and so on:confused:

[Topslide6]

INKJET,

It doesn't quite work like that. bmi as an organisation is not a ladder to climb with a regional F/O as the bottom rung! :rolleyes:

baby pilots may well be Boeing rated, on the 737. That doesn't have a great deal of bearing on flying the 757 though, does it? It's still a completely new typerating.

SR71,

No, I'm saying perhaps they should dry lease the aircraft and type-rate some of their own pilots (20?)....on the basis that they'll probably have Boeings again in the fleet at some time in the future.

Fair point...but that is a massive 'If', and I refer you to my point above. I can hardly see us getting 757's into the fleet in the future, so typerating some guys and girls on it, on the basis that at some point in the future we might get some more Boeing manufactured aircraft makes no financial sense.

[INKJET]

It might not work like that, but its meant to! ask any Regional guy who was interviewed and they were told it was indeed a ladder, In addition there is/was a set of written transfer agreement from regional into both mainline and baby and pilots have transfered from baby to mainline (and a few the other way) as well as a good number from regional to baby. Where it not for the Bmed purchase this issue would not have arisen and all in bmi (if not all in Bmed) must see that developement as positive for the groups future.

I do understand that some will see this delay their career developement, my point is that this will be deeper than just mainline, it will effect other units in the group With regards to aircraft ratings Boeing to Boeing is probably easier than airbus to boeing, but it won't happen and there is a lot more to flying into darkest Africa than just knowing you way around a Boeing derived flight deck, most at baby will be more than happy to go no further South than Faro or Malaga

[6chimes]

The confusion and frustration shown here is the single outcome from bmi having so many different business models, a/c, in-flight services, The list goes on and on. We have dedicated a/c with different configs on so many different routes, no one can keep up anymore. And we work here, God knows what a pax thinks when looking for a flight cos what they got on one route won't be the same on another.

This issue shows the need for bmi to step back and streamline the business so we all know where we stand. It needs to stop being a mouse and having a nibble at every piece of the market. We could start with having our a/c all in the same paint job!

6

[AboveMSA]

I quite agree Halfwayback, it is premature to comment on the outcome of future consultations, however, you mention the A.F.S., would the bmi SFO's be protected with passover pay in the event of Astraeus crews delaying their pomotions? :confused:

[bluenose boy]

I believe passover pay is indeed being discussed when the Balpa CC meet with management, I think on the 21st. As one of those affected it would maybe generate scale B so would be very worthwhile.

[Tail-take-off]

There maybe opportunities for bmi pilots to convert temporarily to the B757,

Get real HWB this is just the usual bu****it from the board. It was inserted to defuse/avoid the issues they know they are creating by making hollow suggestions.

[Count von Altibar]

Bringing in B757s to be operated by non-bmi mainline pilots for such a period(with possible extension according to the management) is wrong. We've had regional here for a few years now and they have proved to be the thin end of the wedge. BALPA should have put it's foot down on the regional issue sooner as the whole problem has now snowballed to a point where they don't know what to do about it. This kind of thing doesn't happen at our Heathrow based UK competitors because their pilots via BALPA don't put up with this kind of thing. How come BALPA when it comes to bmi are so weak?

[Count von Altibar]

Just noticed on CNN that BA pilots have voted in favour of strike action reference 'open skies'. This just vindicates the point I'm making above. Wow, airline pilots that are backed up by the union in order to protect working conditions! :{

[Halfwayback]

TTO

All I am saying is let's wait and see what comes from the discussions with the CC and management.

Even if there are no conversions (and I think there will be) then there will have to be passover pay by the AFS.

BTW I think this should have been stopped in its tracks when we had London City doing Brit Mid routes - but that is history!

HWB

[SinBin]

Heard it from Flt. Ops Director himself, 'there will be opportunities on the 757'

[AboveMSA]

Does that imply bmi SFO's who have been waiting a long time for command will now be given that opportunity on the 757? BTW anyone know whether the CC met with company on the 21st?

[Ada Quonsett]

Can anyone tell me the usual BMIbaby BHX-Aberdeen route, waypoints? Thanks.

[FlyboyUK]

The route varies, on the way up to POL then either via Margo or via Newcastle depending on slot constraints. Back down is always the standard route via PTH, DCS, Lakey etc

[Kirks gusset]

As a non BMI chap, here's my penny worth! If you recall Astraeus did a similar contract with Flybe, 5 FlyBe guys ended up getting type rated on the 737, all have since left FlyBe and stayed on the 737.. Now.. consider that this is the first year there has not been a huge crop of students in the system, it is very likely that more FO's will be needed to cover the new schedules. Given the routes to be operated, It is likely there will be a chance for people with jet time to convert to the 757.. Just more than a thought!

[jez2826]

Passover pay will more than pay for a type rating for a bmi pilot to convert.
IMHO bmi would be astute to put their own crew on the 757.

[clearskyahead51]

According to A.net bmi might not operate to TLV from March 13th as initially planned. Could we see the spare 757 on LHR-IKA? That would make more sense in the summer if we want to avoid the tech stop on the way back. TLV could perfectly be operated with a 320/321.

[Max Angle]

757 ops are not going to starting until May anyway so no chance of using it to IKA until then. Hope the Tel Aviv does go ahead, looking forward to some sunshine.

[max nightstop]

The original plan was to take the 757 to IKA but, and I kid you not, there are political issues on taking US manufactured aircraft into Iran. That is why the decision was changed to send it to TLV instead.

It's a funny old world.

Muppet, people bother with the agreement and the union because without them there would have been no consultation and no opportunity to put bmi pilots onto the 757, no resultant promotions in bmi, no prospect of passover pay, no movement of scale B. Of course, if you had read the whole agreement you would have been much better informed, if no wiser. Good choice of nick by the way.....

Max

[BMEDFO]

"there are political issues on taking US manufactured aircraft into Iran. "

Funny when you land in Tehran your surrounded by US built Military and Civil airliners painted in Iran Air Colours!

Its more likely they don't want to see bmi carrying more pax than Iran Air!!

[Heffer]

I think its the fact that the aircraft are owned and chartered from an american leasing company, not because they are built by the yanks!

[Flightrider]

It's exactly the same problem that Cubana have had. Air Europa was flying a 767 owned by ILFC into Havana on behalf of Cubana and were basically directed to stop because of the sanctions regime in place for a US-owned aircraft.

[Puritan]

Without Prejudice...

For those BMI SFO's who might be thinking that they're up for a direct entry command on the B757 via Astraeus... you might be interested to know that Astraeus' Ops Manual / Part A / 5.2.2.2 / Upgrade to Commander / Minumum requirements are as follows:
ATPL
3000 hours as Operating Flight Crew of which 2500 hours must be as operating crew on an aircraft over 12.5 tonne; INCLUDING
2000 hours as operating crew of jet aircraft over 25 tonnes and one year continuous service with Astraeus; OR
2000 hours PIC of jet aircraft greater than 25 tonnes and 1 year continuous service with Astraeus; OR
1000 hours as operating crew of B737 or B757 series aircraft and 6 months continuous service with Astraeus.
Along with which would be a command assessment sim check, successful completion of which gains one entry to a command course (ground school + sim) + command Line Training.

Astraeus' Part D (Training Manual) / 3.4.9.1 / Before exercising the privileges of two licence endorsements;
(a) the flight crew member must have completed two consecutive operator proficiency checks and must have a minimum of 500 hours in the relevant crew position.
(b) in the case of a pilot being promoted to command on one of the two types, the required minimum experience as commander is 6 months and 300 hours. The pilot must have completed 2 consecutive operator proficiency checks before exercising 2 licence endorsements.
Basically (as a minimum?), complete B757 Type Rating (including passing the LST to a high standard), then fly in the RHS for 6 months, at the end of which do another LPC / OPC (also requiring a pass at high standard), then do a command sim check, which if you pass will gain you entry to the command course, etc. Now do the math on how long that lot would take...?!

[Max Angle]

There won't be any direct entry commands on the 757, any of our pilots who do it will be experienced Captains or more junior FO's who have 2-3 years to go before they have the hours for a command. No senior FOs will bid for it because they won't want to get stuck on it while commands go to people below them.

PS. We don't even know that we will be flying it yet but it looks very likely although I can't think why they just don't bite the bullet and buy 2-3 757s and be done with it, it's clearly the right aircraft for the job.

[keyboard flier]

Are the 757's not being damp leased?

[Halfwayback]

Yes they are being damp leased with Astraeus pilots and bmi cabin crew - BUT assuming dicussions with the Union are satisfactory- some bmi mainline pilots will also carry out a 757 conversion to fly tha aircraft as well!

HWB

[Puritan]

Heffer - just to clarify it, what AEU's Part A actually says is:

3000 hours as Operating Flight Crew of which 2500 hours must be as operating crew on an aircraft over 12.5 tonnes*

* may be varied at the discretion of the Director of Flight Operations

Which I think you'll find relates to the DirFltOps being able to vary the requirements wrt to the total hours required for command upgrade, i.e. in respect of those pilots whom have relevant & significant operational experiece, albeit gained flying light jets, e.g. such as corporate business jets.

[Tail-take-off]

3000 hours as Operating Flight Crew of which 2500 hours must be as operating crew on an aircraft over 12.5 tonnes

bmi command requirements are in excess of that (4000 hours) & infact all SFOs who are nearing promotion have more like 6000 hours on B737 &/or A320.

[Nubboy]

Don't forget that most of these SFOs have a shed load of longhaul experience on the A330 as well. :=

[Puritan]

Tail-take-off - that figure refers to the 'minimum' requirement... and aside from which, simply having lots of hours in the RHS does not mean that one is going to pass the command assessment sim ride, and / or the subsequent command course.

[standbyils]

Astraeus will not disadvantage any of it's own pilots and are not required to by the contract in place. This means that any AEU pilot wishing to bid for LHR will be given preference, including those only rated on the B737. As the AEU B737 fleet is due to reduce I expect that there will be many UK based pilots interested in the LHR base.

The other thing to note here is that AEU have been operating 5 B757s for some time, so one would imagine that the aircraft are already crewed up. The bmi operation does not require AEU to add to it's B757 fleet.

Whilst the company has been through some extreme change, the investment from their backers and the new contracts in place surely mean that those who are there (having seen it through the difficult times) will stay.

Also, I understand there are a handful of AEU F/Os up for command on the B757.

If AEU had to go into the market place for pilots to crew the bmi operation, then it would make sense to use anything bmi could offer; captains and F/Os.

I know for a fact that there are AEU B757 pilots who would be better placed with a commute to LHR rather than LGW.

Good luck to the management on both sides in sorting this one.:ok:

[Puritan]

Wrt If AEU had to go into the market place for pilots to crew the bmi operation, then it would make sense to use anything bmi could offer; captains and F/Os. Uhm, therein the really interesting bit would be how to handle the undoubted disparity between BMI's & AEU's pay scales & T&C's?!

One can certainly envisage a situation where there are two pilots (1 BMI and 1 AEU), of the same rank, flying in the exact same aircraft, on the same route, but being paid different rates / allowances... and that's really going to go down like a lead balloon, isn't it ?!

[Kirks gusset]

Based on the way Astraeus have operated in the past, surely they will go to the agencies and get typed pilots on short term contracts? Having said that, there may well be no holes to plug! WRT guys operating on vastly different pay scales..is this the right message to send to the loyal AEU crews whom have stayed through the restructure? Having said that I understand most of the FO's on the 757 and 737 fleet have significant time and presumably the bosses will want to protect thier assets.
Puritan summed it up..this won't be an upgrade passport but may be a chance to put another useful type on the ticket..Best of luck to both the red corner and the blue corner!

[Halfwayback]

It has happened in the past (albeit where bmi was the lessor) that other pilots have undergone a type conversion and then flown as operating crew. The fact that there was a totally different pay structure in place in the two different airlines was immaterial.

A Newsflash issued this morning by BALPA and bmi states that good progress has been made and there will be a positive benefit for the bmi pilot workforce. It goes on to say that there needs to be further discussions with Astraeus before a further details communication will be issued. We need to see what that contains before prejudging the case.

HWB :)

[fade to grey]

Hmmm,
could make for some interesting CRM moments, I hope it all works out.... I have a vested interest.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Is it true that Bmi aim to introduce centralized load planning and will only require Dispatchers not Load Controllers?

Cheers

[Little Blue]

Well, we tried that one back in the late 90's.....
I'd be surprised and disappointed if it made a comeback !

[mathers_wales_uk]

Thanks for that, i was just wondering becuase they were testing it out on the WW2901/WW2902 last weekend at Cardiff. I know it is a BmiBaby flight and it would have some cost savings in the long run as you would pay the handling agents less for Dispatch compared to load control.

One major problem is that unless standard loading is used (as currently), then it may cause more problems and delays than what it's worth. I have much more control of a flight if i prepare the loadsheet than trusting somone from Castle Donnington. Any errors would take longer to rectify awaiting for a new loadsheed (not the best for a 25 min turnaround).

[Yellow Sun]

than trusting somone from Castle Donnington

IIRC The last time it was all done from a trading estate somewhere outside Edinburgh. Cannot see why it would work any better this time, unless there is an investment in mobile datacomms.

YS

Sorry, bmi and invest? Silly idea!

[Tail-take-off]

Puritan

that figure refers to the 'minimum' requirement... and aside from which, simply having lots of hours in the RHS does not mean that one is going to pass the command assessment sim ride, and / or the subsequent command course.

Exactly the same at bmi but the basic hours requirement is higher. If Ashtrays'R'us weren't doing these routes for us these very same FOs would be doing them in the LHS of a 321. Those in the frame have already passed bmi command assessments & I doubt the required standard is much different.

[pavil]

than trusting somone from Castle Donington

pilots will be doing the loadsheets themselves on the new laptops. had a look at the system the other day and its quite impressive although i forgot to ask about a "hard copy" (they just take figures from the screen), but would assume its sent somewhere to be printed.

[mathers_wales_uk]

So what is required then is for the captain to receive the weights, distribution of bags etc. Then he is to tell the dispatcher where to load the bags etc. and then they complete the loadsheet on their laptops?



Cheers

[pavil]

not wanting to steer this thread into a dispatch discussion but, and i could be wrong, im pretty sure the captain said "tell us how its loaded" so i would assume that to save time theyll be trusting stations to load how they see fit. sorry for being a bit vague but i didnt really have time to discuss it with him in great detail.

[Mister Geezer]

I have seen a briefing on a similar automated loadsheet system that my company was looking at. Probably most systems are the same but the one that I saw resulted in the crew member inputting the various load information. Obviously the Captain can't 'sign' an e-loadsheet so the crew member is given a User ID and a Password and this is used to verify who accepted the loadsheet! A copy is then e-mailed from the PDA/Laptop to Ops where it is stored and archived in accordance with the regulations.

A good system!

[INKJET]

What ever next? APU's that do what it says on the can

[mathers_wales_uk]

Forgive me if i'm wrong but a loadhseet must be signed by the captain / FO before the doors are closed and a/c is pushed back. And if the dispatcher is allocating the load distribution then in fact he is a load controller that just doesn't prduce a loadsheet.

Due to the fact this forum has gone off course, (mainly due to myself) i would appreciate anymore responses via PM.

Cheers

[brian_dromey]

I am under the understanding that "e-signatures" are as legally binding as a paper version. You click a check-box and hit "continue" or similar and thats that.

For, example my credit card application was entirely on-line and the bank has never seen my signature. Im still bound by the T&C's though.

Brian.

[Barcli]

Be realsitic Guys ;
My money is on .....
A330 + seniority = possible 757 course
A319/320/321 + medium seniority = no chance
"passover pay" = absolutely no chance ( nearly fell over laughing at this one)
anything beneficial = no chance
:)

[scotsunflyer]

bmi has renamed its fares again

UK routes

Tiny changed to economy saver
Business restricted changed to business saver

comes into effect on 11 March.

Other changes in Eurpoean and long haul

[newscaster]

Who says there are political issues to flying US built aircraft to Iran?

[Puritan]

Comments from Astraeus' CEO in a 'Business Update' dated 6th March 08:I have heard a lot of misinformation in recent weeks, most in relation to the BMI contract in LHR. Let me make it clear that there no responsibility on the part of Astraeus to use BMI pilots on this contract. All of our existing pilots will be considered for this contract ahead of BMI staff. It is only if we need to go to the open market to recruit pilots that we need to consult with BMI and consider any of their pilots that would like to fly the 757.

[look you]

It must be very disappointing for him to have heard this misinformation from the bmi Flight Ops Director!

I bet the bmi pilots are going to be equally disappointed that they have been lied to again by their management.

[the bald eagle]

Excuse me if this has already been mentioned but just heard that BMI are looking to obtain slots out of LGW for next year?
Does this sound like jungle drums or is there any truth in this one (It is BMI and not the Bawling kid that was being spoken about)
TBE

[flyer55]

Yeah heard that BMI have been looking at gettin slots for LGW and north terminal space !

[easyprison]

The North Terminal is undergoing a orange transformation at the moment!

[MUFC_fan]

Where would BMI want to operate?

EZY/BA pretty much have all of Europe tied up and will continue to fill in the gaps over the next couple of years.

Are we to see a big BMI order for a/c soon? They are apparently expanding at MAN and with little a/c on the way (A330 I think:confused:) could we see an increase in A320 series a/c order? Or maybe a A350XWB order!:ok:

[TCX69]

Maybe the slots were for the charter flights we operate from there? I know bmi have done a lot this winter. We operate from the South Terminal at the mo though so dunno about the move to the North. Hmmm?

[bottom governor]

Whats the point in having a written agreement preventing non-bmi pilots from flying our routes and then sitting and watching it happen?:ugh:What are BALPA doing about it? BA pilots have shown us how to react to an attempted outsourcing of their jobs. The only pilots benefiting from the agreement at the moment are the regional pilots "temporarily" based here for the last 2 years and earing a fortune in allowances.

Come on BALPA - DO something.:*:ugh:

[look you]

I thought there was an agreement between BALPA and bmi for those regional guys at LHR?

[the bald eagle]

Perhaps to offload some of their LHR slots and flog them off at a higher cost than to buy LGW slots?

[LHRKLBD]

The purpose of the LGW slots is for an isreali (not sure i've spelt that right) carrier to go to LGW instead, (as LHR slot are all taken) so the BMI can go to TLV.

[max nightstop]

Just a rumour...bmi in talks to buy Globespan.....

[RhysD]

Just wondering if anybody has info regarding the planned bmi Charter Programme for Summer 2008? I believe Aldergrove, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Heathrow and Manchester have some flights.
Cheers...

[airhumberside]

EDI is Ibiza (mainline) and Bastia (regional). Theres quite a few at ABZ for Airtours

[Airbus215]

The summer programme features FULL SEASON weekend operations from the following bases:

LHR
MAN
GLA
EDI
BHD
LGW
ABZ

BFS & EMA PEAK SEASON week round programme
PIK APRIL weekend ONLY

The charter programme will be operated by SH ER145,A319/320/321 and MH A320/1
these will be in both single and dual class config.

In addition adhoc flights will operate from most bases.

[GrahamK]

I take it the GLA flights to Venice operate via Newcastle again?

[Airbus215]

Correct Gla Prog :

Rmi- Er4
Szg- A319
Dlm- A320
Gro- A319
Vce- A319 Via Ncl

All Weekly Except Rmi Which Is Fortnightly.

Also
Pfo -a320 October 2 Flights
Canaries Various Dates Oct A321

[tangoecho]

BMI Charters summer 08

Alicante
Faro
Ibiza
Palma
Reus

Stu...:D

[Alan Tracey]

LGW anyone??

[crewcostundercontrol]

Have just been told there is a strong rumour going around today that Baby are about to go bust or wind down the operation altogether because it's not making any money any more. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this? I know they have reduced the fleet size this winter and with the Ryans and Orange mob now taking on Brum I guess things were always going to be tough.

[tristar500]

Heard only yesterday that BABY were about to put tender out for ground handling at their UK airports, as bmi were hiving the handling off...

bmi currently handle themselves, BABY and Regional at stations all 3 fly in out of...

[lexoncd]

Baby have recently conducted a review of their services to decide the future. Is it leisure the way Jet 2 have/are moving away from city destinations or?

Tey won't go "bust" Any accountant can tell you why but they could be sold off or acquire someone to make economies of scale.

The new Bmi/Bmed is one thing and as the parent group will go in this direction the demands of baby detract from the new goal.

Good management at Baby. Will they re-integrate into regional...

Wait for the news......if there is any

[4 engines 4 longhaul]

Ha what a load of rubbish, at worst it'l be a takeover.

[Mercenary Pilot]

Maybe BMR could use the 737's (and crews) to gain capacity until flybe give up those EMB145's?

[Aerofoil]

As far that the reduction of the fleet goes...this was due to a number of 500's leases comes to an end and the lending company wanted the same price as for -300's so Baby didnt renew with them. Since then Baby have found -300's to replace those aircraft so they havent downsized the fleet for any other reason like going bust. As for ticket sales they have recently had RECORD bookings mounting way higher than ever before added to that new routes which are doing very well etc etc etc.
With the EZY and Ryanair moving into birmingham, The only thing EZY are doing is flying into BHX from GVA and thats it and out of all the routes ryanair will be doing out of birmingham only 2 or 3 collide with baby's out of the 25 routes they have.
So going bust....i doubt VERY much.

["Taylor"]

Hope this isn't true, they operate an excellent service out of cwl. If they went i think Cardiff would be out of business! They make up 60% of traffic. :hmm:

[crewcostundercontrol]

Thats good to know it would be a shame if they did go down the pan I quite like the brand, flew with them a couple of times positioning and thought they were quite good.

[xwindflirt]

as a temp summer base........ I wouldnt say no;)

[Dwain Dibley]

The only reason why any bmi group company goes bust is for tax reasons! You should know that by now.

[avrodamo]

I can assure you that you have this very much incorrect! Incredible really as it was only a few days ago Baby were rumoured to be buying FGS:ugh:

[Airbus215]

Heard only yesterday that BABY were about to put tender out for ground handling at their UK airports, as bmi were hiving the handling off...

bmi currently handle themselves, BABY and Regional at stations all 3 fly in out of...

bmi sold off its british midland handling operation 8 years ago

bmi only operates check in at LHR MAN GLA EDI all ramp handling is Aviance

Baby operates checkin only at EMA with menzies doing ramp
at bhx & cwl baby is totaly handled by aviance

At all UK stations aviance is contracted to handle bmi group operations.

The aviance contract is shortly due for renewal/tender.

[randomair]

Although bmi use aviance at the outstations for ground handling, I'm sure they still use bmi dispatchers... they did at Christmas anyway.

randomair

[Vol7]

Utter Rubbish
Strange that this rumour has just come out when the board have just given a presentation to confirm their commitment to baby.
Expected growth to 40 a/c in the future

[sealink]

bmi also handle check-in, baggage services, ticket desk, dispatch etc at BHD !!

[mathers_wales_uk]

I have to say there is major contradiction to those that created this post than from the main players at BmiBaby.

If BmiBaby were going bust then would they announce new routes as of the end of last week?

Would they have sent the following statement regarding basing more a/c and being commited to their CWL base?

bmibaby managing director Crawford Rix said: ‘We have competitors – Mike’s copying my network! There is a great future at Cardiff for us. We don’t all have to fly the same routes. There are plenty of opportunities out of Cardiff for us all. bmibaby is at Cardiff to stay and we are looking to add aircraft in the near future.’

Those that know what this meeting is at BMI but keeping it close to their chest will probably know the truth, and judging to one of their statement it must be spectacular as he wondered how they pulled this one off.

Hopefully this announcement will not just improve Bmi and Baby but increase their a/c too.

[Little Blue]

I'm amazed that some people actually believe this crap.
I'm more amazed that I'm bothering to reply to it !
Ryanair? I'd rather swim than fly with those monkeys !

[uklad007]

As someone with an accounting background I would be extremly surprised if Baby goes "bust", am not saying they wont close it nor am i saying they wont sell it - truth be told I dont know - but they wont declare bankruptcy as I imagine the structure of the company is that its under group ownership and if you bankrupt one part of the business when the remainder is solvent/profitable it brings a whole host of problems for the rest of the group - if its a standalone separate from the group its a possibility but I cant honestly imagine this is an option at all and isnt a rumour which really should be spread about as it isnt very helpful. You only need a rumour like this to get out into the wider community to instill panic in both employees and consumers - look at Northern Rock and the run on the bank with the panic there!

[G-AWZK]

I have it on good authority that this thread is a buch of hokum and that BMi Baby are doing very well thank you very much.

Ryanair can go shove their sausagefingers where the sun doesnt shine.

[bcn_boy]

to those of you who would like to see the demise of bmibaby, how short sighted! If all other UK loco's go under in the UK, this will clearly be of benefit to Ryan and Easy but the ones who will suffer will be the consumers. Reduced competition in the industry will force these two loco's to ramp up their prices for all us fare paying passengers. They will be low on frills but high on price.

[Skipness One Echo]

bmi sold off its british midland handling operation 8 years ago

Wasn't that the MAS Midland Airport Service operation that was sold to Aviance ? I know BMI have their own passenger handling peeps at GLA, EDI and LHR at least, which is more than BA have !

[Hudson Bay]

ATI are now talking about bmibaby going bust.

I can understand why rumours of bmibaby going bust are making their way around the aviation world when all the management at baby talk of tough times and that their is no money in the pot to pay a profit share for the second year running. Now it doesn't look like there will be one next year either, judging by what management tell you at tiny town.

This is the problem when you have profit share schemes. If the companies don't pay one it fuels speculation that all is not well.

[mmeteesside]

bmi are now handled by Servisair at MME as Aviance recently departed

[Flypuppy]

ATI are now talking about bmibaby going bust.

There are no indications AT ALL that there is any validity to these rumours. It would be interesting to know where ATI have sourced that particular nugget of information. If it is uncorroborated rumour recycling then my respect for that organisation will slip a notch or two.

If anything, the information I have from a very reliable source is quite the opposite. BMI Baby are more likely to expand their operations rather than wind anything down.

This is the problem when you have profit share schemes. If the companies don't pay one it fuels speculation that all is not well.

Companies often go through periods where the profit level does not met the minimum criteria for paying out a profit share scheme. This sort of scheme is a bonus, it is not a mandated payment that must be paid every year. Only the poorly informed would assume that things are not well because there is no profit related bonus. For example, an airline I am intimately acquainted with turned a healthy gross profit, but by the time they finished provisioning for new aircraft and other "crystal ball" events the net profit - which the bonus is based on - was below the trigger threshold. The company, however, is very healthy and expanding.

Perish the thought that another lo-co airline might use this website to seed negative rumours about a competitor... :hmm:

[RhysD]

PPRuNers, currently doing a project about the British Midland Fleet and was wondering if anybody knows the ownership status of MEDL, MEDM, MIDC, MIDL, MIDX and MIDZ? As for the rest of the fleet, I have details of ownership; majority are owned by ILFC etc. Many thanks...

[Hudson Bay]

Nigel Turner has stated that bmibaby have one year to turn the operation around.

The board has said and I quote "has lost patience" with bmibaby after many years of loses.

So Mr Rix, what are you doing about this?

[Richard Taylor]

Going back to bmi Regional if he has any sense...:E

[bmi expat]

Nigel Turner has stated that bmibaby have one year to turn the operation around.

The board has said and I quote "has lost patience" with bmibaby after many years of loses.

So Mr Rix, what are you doing about this?

Hmmmm source for this please. I think you'll find that the board has not lost patience with bmibaby. It is acknowledged within the bmibaby board and at group board level that for the last two years profitability has been sacrificed for expansion purposes. The next financial year results will determine future expansion, but by no means has Nigel Turner stated that "bmibaby has one year to turn the operation around".

[Skipness One Echo]

PPRuNers, currently doing a project about the British Midland Fleet and was wondering if anybody knows the ownership status of MEDL, MEDM, MIDC, MIDL, MIDX and MIDZ? As for the rest of the fleet, I have details of ownership; majority are owned by ILFC etc. Many thanks...
19th March 2008 17:36
Flypuppy
Quote:

Have you tried www.caa.co.uk and tried the UK Register link, sure they have ownership details on the site.

[keepitlit]

Another good one

http://www.jethros.dwsitech.com/menu.htm

regards

K.I.L.

[SR71]

The board has said and I quote "has lost patience" with bmibaby after many years of loses.


When did bmi last make any money?

I imagine bmibaby lost their patience with bmi a long time ago...

[Val d'Isere]

to those of you who would like to see the demise of bmibaby, how short sighted! If all other UK loco's go under in the UK, this will clearly be of benefit to Ryan and Easy but the ones who will suffer will be the consumers. Reduced competition in the industry will force these two loco's to ramp up their prices for all us fare paying passengers. They will be low on frills but high on price.
Question 1 - On what routes do bmibaby compete with Ryanair or Easyjet?

Question 2 - What proportion of bmibaby business do those routes represent?

[Topslide6]

Hudson Bay, I cannot not comment on this...

Nigel Turner has stated that bmibaby have one year to turn the operation around.

The board has said and I quote "has lost patience" with bmibaby after many years of loses.

So Mr Rix, what are you doing about this?

Sorry, but that is just simply incorrect. Exactly who are you claiming to be 'quoting' there? You claim to be a pilot, and give the impression that you work for bmi in some capacity, but looking back through your posts with regard to them it is you that is consistently posting rubbish.

A couple of examples:

Yes I agree. Hats off to SMB for pulling this one off.

Why would NT be at a high level meeting? Facts are facts and the meeting is continuing at Donnington Hall this evening

Looks like some sort of deal has been done. Not sure if it's with GS. Announcement shortly

That last one was posted over a week ago. You also appear to enjoy posting bad news about other airlines:

Am I correct saying that Silverjet shares are down 75% (52 weeks)

One about BA,

Interesting for the spotters watching a Nigel fly a 5.5 degree approach! My bet is 3 tail strikes within the first month

and one with regards to Glopbespan, posted in March last year:

share your reservations and am not sure to book or not. I want too book, but my gut feeling is Globespan will go bust before the summer. I will not fly the puddle in a 737.

What game are you attempting to play, or more to the point, what is your agenda?

[scudbus258]

What happened to G-MIDU. Does anyone know why it has been put into storage especially with the summer period coming?

Kind Regards

[jethro15]

What happened to G-MIDU
WFU and returned to lessor. Onward to Spanair

jethro
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
htto://www.jethros.dwsitech.com

[Endeavour]

G-MIDU is currently being repainted into Spanair colours at Southend, it is scheduled to operate it last flight with a 'Midland' callsign as the BD9531
02APR SEN-EMA.

[acbus1]

The board has said and I quote "has lost patience" with bmibaby.....
Not half as much as the loyal bmi Mainline employees who were made redundant, forced to change bases
or press-ganged into transferring to bmibaby on worse pay and conditions when it was first formed.



That aside, who is responsible for the miserable performance of bmibaby in the first place?

Who is responsible for the failure of bmibaby to compete with the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair?

The answer? Well, would you believe it? Those responsible for those failures are the self same Board thats lost its patience,
plus a few rats who jumped from the sinking ship before the rising water level reached them.

Morons.

[Hudson Bay]

It is not made up nor is it a rumour. NT stated this fact at a recent recurrent.

Topslide6, Just because you don't like what the board says doesn't mean it's not true.

As for people wanting to see the demise of bmi, there will always be a handful of people wishing this upon bmi and other airlines. I personally do not. I want the whole of the bmi group to go from strength to strength and it disappoints me when I hear of NT putting out statements such as this.

[mathers_wales_uk]

There are contradiction to what we have heared, some are saying the board are fed up with BmiBaby and Crawford rix saying they would like to add a 4th a/c at CWL etc.

Somone is saying the truth but it is interesting that this apparent announcement still hasn't been announced after approx 2 weeks of the meeting at Donnington Hall.

And looking at Jethros website along with the 733 due at may GTOYL there is another due in 08 GTOYI.

I thought BMI was looking to aquire other airlines at a moments notice, could this be BmiBaby into mainline?

[bhd-lonFLYer]

Or could the recent name change of tiny fares to economy saver at bmi mainline a way to try to distance its self from baby?

[bmi expat]

It is not made up nor is it a rumour. NT stated this fact at a recent recurrent.

I'm not sure if you saw the same presentation as I did but NT did not say that the bmi board has lost patience with bmibaby and that they only have a year to turn things around. What he said was that the board had been patient over the last two years acknowledging the fact that profitability had been sacrificed for the expansion of the last two years. He said that any future expansion would depend on turning things around and that this year things were heading in the right direction to do that.

The way you stated it puts a very negative spin on what was actually a very optomistic outlook given by the board and NT.

[Topslide6]

Absolutely agree with that bmi expat.

Hudson Bay's version of events certainly doesn't tally with the widely held view of the truth, and I personally don't think posts like his are even slightly appropriate, nor professional.

Like I said before, exactly what is your agenda HB?

[arfortune]

It's amused me over the past few weeks to read all the Naysayers' predictions for the industry, inlcuding all the possible mergers and acquisitions that are apparently going to happen. It would make things very interesting if they all actually happened.

I agree that BMI and Baby could do things differently, and would love to see more new routes and planes etc, but would far rather they stuck to the bread & butter routes and survived.

Anyhow if indeed BMI was about to close, or the board is 'fed up' with them, why would they be recruiting senior people?

"Bmibaby has appointed Julian Carr as commercial director, due to join in May 2008.

He joins from IATA (International Air Transport Association) in Canada where he was head of marketing and new business development.

Before that, he was managing director at MyTravelLite, the low-cost airline owned by the MyTravel Group.

Carr will work closely with the airline’s managing director Crawford Rix. "

The source for the above was Travelmole, but it's been widely reported elsewhere.

[Kazamb]

Just reading the Trade Press for Travel Agents -

Virgin plans bmi merger

VIRGIN
Atlantic is has announced
plans for a merger with bmi,according to media reports in
Germany this morning.VS external affairs and route
development director Barry Humphreys is quoted in the
Sueddeutsche Zeitung

as saying“we are very interested in a merger with bmi.”
It’s understood Virgin is pushing bmi’s 30% shareholder Lufthansa
AG to agree to the deal. Lufthansa holds an option to
buy Sir Michael Bishop’s 50% plus one share of bmi by the end of
Jun next year, with the report saying LH would have to pay at
least £229m to buy the shares. Scandinavian Airlines holds the
remaining 20% and has signalledintentions to offload its stake
before the middle of 2008.Analysts say bmi’s European
network would complement Virgin Atlantic’s long-haul routes.

[brian_dromey]

I've not seen it reported elsewhere, but I had a feeling BD, VS & LH would get together, it makes sense for the Germans, makes sense for VS. 49% of their equity wont be hard to come by either, SQ have lost patience with VS.

I think this has the best chance of succeeding under the beedy eye of the Germans. Probably means the end for the BD livery, if and its a BIG IF, this is true.

Brian.

[SinBin]

History repeating itself, what a load of old tosh!!

[lexxity]

I believe the phrase is "here we go again". We'll see.

[Facelookbovvered]

SMB has stated before that he thought Bransons projections "rather racey" i would not be surprised to see that when bmi 2007 group profit figures are published shortly that at a trading level bmi will have done rather better than Virgin, both are private (non PLC) companies with large minority shareholders SIA & LH

SMB will not fly under the Virgin title or LH for that matter, at best you might get bmiVirgin

Most of what i seen about baby on this thread is utter rubbish, i doubt that there is a clock ticking, sure baby need to be seen to be profitable, if the investors are to commit to a new fleet order. The new routes and frequencies released so far this year show a marked change from the previous mind set of flying to every destination every day, this has allowed bolt on's to Poland and the (re) introduction of places like NCE and increases to FAO with the same fleet size or smaller, plus city breaks to LIS & MAD from Manchester.

The big test now comes at BHX with Ryanair, can baby grow the business there as it has at EMA?

[mathers_wales_uk]

Former MyTravelLite marketer Julian Carr has been appointed commercial director at bmibaby, the low cost airline run by bmi.
Mr Carr left MyTravel in September 2005 after rising to the position of managing director for the budget airline division MyTravelLite. Before joining MyTravel he was business development manager at low cost airline Jet2.

[OliWW]

Maybe he is what bmibaby need to expand and start being more competitive

[mathers_wales_uk]

wasn't there a guy from easyjet that went to BmiBaby a couple of months back too? I can't remember his name and what he was brought in to do but apparently he was with easyjet for their first couple of years in operation.

This is looking good and contradicts the negative posts that WW has their clock ticking.

[man friday]

any basis to the rumour that bmi are to start a new route to gibraltar in june?

[chrism20]

Where from?

[K.Whyjelly]

Would that be Mainline, Baby or Regional?? Or are they all doing the route:}

[ara01jbb]

Regional, from Groenigen, with an ERJ135.

Ok, I promise, that's absolutely the last time I make that joke about BMI's route planning. Today. :E

[GLENO]

From Ema, using a Globespan 737 daily :}

[sweetie76]

acbus1, well said.

bmi has been described as a collection of slots waiting to be sold.

Why the sudden desire to 'expand' and 'acquire'? Hard times for everyone looming. All this posturing strikes me as too little, too late. bmi has not been known for digging deep into its pockets.

Or is there a cunning plan?

[Evileyes]

Moderator time wasted by editing out personal attacks on this thread has reached an all time high.

The perpetrators of these attacks need to knock it off or be ready for extended time in the sin bin. If you can't tell who you are here is a hint: If you mention another PPRuNer in your post the chances are very high you are making a personal attack.

The ball, not the player.

Thanks,
The Mods

[Topslide6]

Fair one, but with respect, the complete drivel this guy/girl insists in posting, every single post he/she makes gets boring after a while.

[MUFC_fan]

Looks like WW to get both A321/A319 equipment from BD mainline. I'm guessing these will be coming from LHR as the 752s arrive.

Looks like they are to be based at MAN as the AGP rotation seems to have aither A321/319 on most days. A321 may be due to demand for because of competition - would be the smallest a/c on the route when competing with EZY/FCA/TOM/LS/ZB/XL etc.

Hope the a/c will be painted in full WW livery!:ok: Doubt it very much though...

[viscount702]

Where did this information come from.

It is known they were getting a 321 for most of summer but are you saying they are getting a 319 as well.

I am also interested to know where the A/C to operate the BCN will come from when it starts in September

Viscount

[mathers_wales_uk]

According to Jethro's fleet listings WW has GTOYL due in May 08 with GTOYI due at 08 but with no date.

Anyone know whats planned at CWL with the 0700 departure on Tuesdays left by the termination of the GDN? Is there another route or extra rotation due?

[Endeavour]

There are periods this summer when neither G-MIDC or G-MIDL are available for the WW contract, so an A319 will be used instead.

[bleeds off]

How likely would the use of airbuses be for an incidental baby's network expansion?
Is the operation of the venerable classic 73's still valid fuel cost wise?

Bleeds:p

[flightlevel26]

Yes, Does anyone know what happened to the old Commercial Director of Baby? Steve Burns? Was he pushed? Where is he now?

Baby have failed to expand significantly and rsik beingpushed out by Ryanair and EasyJet. The name of the game is to expand to survive... and do it aggressivly.

[Facelookbovvered]

From The Times

April 15, 2008


Sir Richard Branson in talks with Dubai International Capital over bmi takeover




David Robertson, Business Correspondent


Sir Richard Branson has held talks with Dubai International Capital (DIC), the $12 billion sovereign wealth fund, about financing a possible takeover bid for bmi, The Times has learnt.
The billionaire entrepreneur is understood to have joined senior executives from Virgin Group when they visited Dubai recently to discuss potential deals in the health, mobile phone and airline sectors.
Among the proposals discussed by Sir Richard and DIC was the possibility of a joint £750 million bid for bmi, the former British Midland.
Sir Michael Bishop, who owns 50 per cent plus one share in bmi, is widely expected to put his stake up for sale this year, although he insists that he is under no pressure to do so.
Related Links



Virgin takes £300 million loss on Virgin Blue (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article3745901.ece)
Virgin admits mile-high beauty treats face axe (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article3706406.ece)




Lufthansa, the German national carrier, is a 30 per cent shareholder in bmi and has an option to buy out Sir Michael.
However, if Lufthansa passes on Sir Michael's stake, then Virgin Atlantic will try to take control of the airline.
Alternatively, there are rumours that Lufthansa and Virgin may co-operate in a deal to buy bmi and create a European super-carrier.
Virgin will face competition from British Airways, which revealed last year that it would be interested in acquiring bmi.
Virgin and DIC were partners last year in the failed bid for the struggling Northern Rock bank. The recent meetings are thought to have been preliminary discussions on how the two groups could co-operate in the future.
Other than bmi, the possible joint ventures could include developing a Middle Eastern Virgin mobile operation and expanding the presence of Virgin Active health clubs in Dubai.
If Sir Michael does decide to auction his stake in bmi, he will be in a strong negotiating position.
The value of the airline's slots at Heathrow have risen dramatically since the introduction of the "open skies" agreement between Europe and the United States.
Airlines such as Continental and Delta are desperate to get into Heathrow but cannot do so. Control of bmi's slots, therefore, would be a huge boost for any carrier.
Virgin is also interested in bmi because it would give it a short and medium-haul feeder network. This would bring passengers from across Europe to its base at Heathrow, allowing them to transfer to long-haul Virgin flights.
A spokesman for Sir Michael said: “No decision has been made and no decision needs to be made, as bmi's shareholders can just carry on as they are.”
Virgin declined to comment.
British Airways is thought to be keen to buy bmi to consolidate its leading position at Heathrow, but such a bid would generate competition concerns.
BA may also struggle to finance a bid for bmi should Sir Michael choose to auction his stake.
The airline has issued a profit warning for this year and some analysts have predicted that its profits could more than halve to less than £400 million.
The combination of Terminal 5 costs and the financing of a new fleet of aircraft could put bmi out of its reach.

[Hudson Bay]

Now that BA have pulled off the Manchester to New York route is there an opportunity for bmi to operate this route. Or has the deal already been done?

[bycrewlgw]

Ba haven't pulled off the route - its going to be operated under the Open Skies. Still with a 767 as per the booking engine. :ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

Isn't that a decleration of war to BALPA, directly replacing a BA crew with an Openskies crew would bring the pilots out on strike for sure. I'd be amazed if it was Openskies.

[Hudson Bay]

No way on this earth will it be operated under openskies. Like skipness one echo says it would be all out war.

[BHX5DME]

British Airways is boosting services from London to New York JFK by starting
daily flights from Gatwick on Monday October 27, 2008.

The new flights mean that the airline will fly 62 times each week from the
capital to JFK as the Gatwick flights will operate in addition to 55 weekly
flights from Heathrow.

Lynne Embleton, British Airways’ general manager network planning, said:
“The new Gatwick service will give our customers even more choice when flying
between London and New York. Not only do we already have an extensive schedule
from Heathrow to both JFK and Newark but next year we will launch business-only
flights from London City.�

The new flights from Gatwick will operate on a four class Boeing 777, with
First, Club World, World Traveller Plus and World Traveller cabins, that will be
moved from Heathrow.

British Airways will also start new shorthaul routes from Gatwick this October
with daily services to Oporto and Valencia.

Second daily services from Gatwick to Alicante and Turin will also be added from
the end of October.

Flights to Warsaw will move from Gatwick to Heathrow in October.

British Airways is to suspend its daily flight from Manchester to New York JFK
in October and move the Boeing 767 aircraft that operates the service to
Heathrow.

[Muizenberg]

Why would BMI consider flying MAN-JFK?? They have no feeder traffic at either end (one of the reasons UA could not survive on the LHR-JFK route); the withdrawl of UA on the LHR-JFK has left Star Alliance with a major gap in their network...surely it would be more sensible and commercially vialbe for BMI to fly LHR-JFK...not MAN-JFK.

[CabinCrewe]

Openskies with a 767. Yeah right.....

[barry lloyd]

Muizenberg:

You are aware that bmi currently flies from MAN to several destinations in the US, and seems to make it work? JFK is probably the destination which least needs interline traffic for it to survive.

[captainyonder]

So I guess that just leaves Delta and Continental on the NYC runs now. bmi have got to look at this as being a good opportunity, LHR is going to be a really scrap with Openskies now in place, but MAN seems to suit their niche well.

[roy2711]

Well London airways strikes again:sad:
However i cant honestly see bmi picking up the route!
Ord is doing well and Las and the carib routes are ticking along nicely,with bmi's lack of metal to operate long haul, it would be daft to pull off well established routes to compete against DL and CO on the nyc route
but who knows with bmi anyhthings poss !!!!
erj to jfk anyone:}

[Lashamcat]

I would have thought that BMI would have a look at the options as they have a good feeder network from Scotland.

[Nomoresteerage]

I know nothing I admit to do with aviation so should really hover on a.het I guess....

It would make more sense for VS I guess to fly and then codeshare across the pond with SQ - provides an alternative to LHR and FRA and with the right timings could complimentary feed each others services... but then SQ is going to 5 a week so not great either...

VS probably don't have a spare hull either for it.

NMS

[Curious Pax]

I also come from a position of little knowledge, but with the current economic gloom, and so much invested in the start of open skies services, I can't see anyone rushing to fill the BA gap. However come 2010 it is possible that phase 2 of open skies won't be agreed, in which case phase 1 also stops. Capacity, and the a proportion of the pax that have been routing through LHR will then have to look for somewhere else to go, which may trigger regional expansion.

Don't know how likely OS2 is to get knocked back, but that looks to be the next trigger point at present, followed by Virgin receiving 787s from 2011.

[Count von Altibar]

bmi have made a fortuitous decision on avoiding the US market out of LHR and I doubt they will seek a MAN-US route in the near future. Things are getting tougher for all concerned over the Atlantic. You only need to watch an evening of TV to realise the effects of the credit crisis...

[Flightlevel001]

How long are these 2 757s expected to be around for? Are they are temporary fix before bmi can source more aircraft? I'm of the understanding that the airline does have a shortage of aircraft, bearing in mind its expansion into the middle east. Are they really happy with what they've got?

Presumably an airbus order now or in the near future wouldn't bring a new airframe onto the line for some time bearing in mind the A320 family order backlog... Now that its fairly certain that easyJet will be looking to remove the ex GB A320/1's from their fleet, would bmi be interested in these aircraft? Or the few that GB had on order which should be due for delivery shortly?
:)

[7373]

Don't know how long they will remain. They are said to be contracted for 2 years but could easily be longer and potential for further Astraeus or another company's airframes.

As far aircraft shortage is concerned, this summer bmi will be one Airbus airframe down, allowing one to go to Baby. Also taken on a lot of charter work, so had their been not so much a charter requirement, they could easily have had further surplus aircraft.

Hence a number of unhappy campers at bmi, with Astraeus operating midhaul routes on behalf of BMI and in the process taking bmi pilot positions. Total disregard of mainline 'SCOPE' agreement and possibility of some sort of union intervention. Concern that Astraeus will spread to other midhaul routes. Not a million miles away from the BA/Openskies issue. We wait with baited breathe for news......

[Spit15]

All very heartwarming I'm sure... but happens when BMI's acquired mid-east expansion reaches the end of the year... and the "borrowed" LHR slots are returned to BA... shortage of planes then??? or shortage of routes... Or they may well all be garbed in Lederhosen with a feather in the hat if Lufty excercise their option... "end zen ver du ve go..."

[EastMids]

Achtung, zee Germans are coming!

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/04/25/afx4933674.html
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gP0E52pKerfwEwcaxQ8vj833NWLw

A

[Richard Taylor]

Looks like the big hairy German gorilla in the corner is stirring.......

The other big hairy gorilla (Branson) better get his skates on if he wants bmi.

[rossstrachan]

Not sure if this is the right place to post?

Was on a BMI A319 from EDI-LHR recently and it has been puzzling me ever since as to what the music was that was played in the background as we were coming in. Does anyone know what BMI's tune is?

[mickyman]

It was probably Now69 from a fellow passenger!

MM

[Richard Taylor]

Wasn't the German national anthem, was it? :E:E

(joking, honest!!! :O)

What would become of Baby & Regional if Lufthansa moved in? Bye-bye to both?

[jetboyjim]

Lufthansa has had an excellent first quarter and has decided to splash out and buy bmi.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gP0E52pKerfwEwcaxQ8vj833NWLw


Looks like the industry consolidation has started.

[Mr Flaps]

This taken form the bmi wedsite and SMB. For the full story see bmi.com and go to the press release pages.

'Sir Michael also addressed the speculation surrounding bmi’s ownership, saying: “I can confidently say that bmi’s shareholders will not permit an event to arise through which the airline would become the subject of any opportunistic or under-valued approach.
“Whether bmi remains independent and grows through acquisition or whether the shareholders decide another course, we will not be bounced into any particular direction by comments from other carriers or the media.
“The future of the business will be determined with the best interests of bmi, its shareholders and staff being paramount.”

I think any is possible. LH in charge or bmi still independent or what. Who knows??

[EastMids]

What weasel words... If there's already an agreement for Lufthansa to buy, then their approach cannot really be classed as "opportunistic"... Likewise, with only three shareholders (SMDB, LH and SK), him making it sounds as though a whole host of people or parties have an input is largely a non-issue. Its also good to head ("the best interests of bmi, its shareholders and staff being paramount") SMDB doesn't rate the interests of his customers in any of this.

Andy

[SAM-EMA]

The 1st BMI A321 of the original BMED order (and the first BD 321 to receive this livery) has been painted in the current livery, and I must say it looks great!

SAM-EMA

[bmia330]

any pics sam-ema??

[ara01jbb]

Am I right in thinking the first ever A321 in the full "new" livery is / will be G-MEDN? I'll have to refer to the "fleet" page in the back of Voyager magazine and imagine what it must look like until we get a pic online somewhere.

[DTVAirport]

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=&picid=4689

Enjoy guys!!

[SinBin]

G MEDN makes sense, as the last one was G MEDM, can't wait to fly it!!

[Ringwayman]

Today's Mail on Sunday reports that BD is being sued for over £12m by Durham Tees Valley for breach of contract regarding bmibaby's operations there.

[SinBin]

Well we all beleive what the daily rag writes!! The same newspaper that reports week on week, year on year that someone has bought BD!

[ladyflyby]

Roll on the VS merger

[Dan D'air]

I for one find it highly interesting that BMI are phoning the next (Ex-Astraeus) CC course intake and asking them if they will stay on with AEU to complete the subs which can't be presently fulfilled................

[OliWW]

I have recentally heard that Virgin Nigeria's B733's are to be sold to bmibaby before the end of 2008. Ex easyjet aircraft..

Reg.

5N-VNC ex G-EZYN
5N-VND ex G-EZYM
5N-VNE ex G-EZYP
5N-VNF ex G-EZYR
5N-VNG ex G-EZYS
and also
UR-GAH of Ukraine Intl Airlines

[bmia330]

OliWW

You have proven to be a very good source of rumours on here, have you got this on good source??

[SinBin]

Where will the axe fall first, any thoughts from anyone who received the memo from NT?

[flyingfrog]

The memo had no mention of redunduncies at all....:ugh:

[BIGBAD]

looks like its almost a certainty :{

[adam12345]

Looks like BmiBaby are ending there Gdansk service from both Cardiff and East Midlands.

http://www.airport.gdansk.pl/service/en/index2.php?click=wyloty

Also is there any new BmiBaby routes to be announced soon from BHX. :ok: