BMI

[teamax]

There are currently high level talks going on between BA and LH about a merger, the main sticking point is who will serve LBA ! ( source, mate in the city).

[BKS Air Transport]

Yes, it is a codeshare with BD. Doesn't need to be just longhaul though, I just tried it with FCO and it worked.

[uklad007]

Brian_Dromey
I would have to argue with you that the train is a better option to/from Leeds - its an alternative but not necessarily better.
Now that BMI have scrapped the fuel surcharge on domestic flights ex Heathrow it makes them more competitive (sometimes cheaper) on price.
You can check through (if this is being offered on BMI to LHR then LHR onwards with BA or anyone else where a through booking is made) which avoids having to be there two hours before and the hassle of re-checking in/going through security for your onward flight.

Although for your departure from Leeds you have to check in which takes time when you could be sat on a train on your way - i would rather have the leisure time of looking in the shops/grabbing something to eat etc rather than being stuck on a train where your not always guaranteed a seat.
Also if you are getting an onward connection, if your going by train to heathrow it is a major pain because you get to Kings Cross and then either take the tube all the way to Heathrow (which is a nightmare), a taxi is not cost effective, or you take the tube to paddington to catch the heathrow express (again not cheap) or heathrow connect service - which minimum you would need to allow over an hour to transfer Kings Cross to Heahrow.

The only point it might be quicker is if your only going to Heathrow to go to Central London or if your only travelling from London to go to Leeds and havent flown into London from anywhere else (i.e you originate in Central London) - doesnt mean it will be cheaper or less hassle due to availability of seats - and like me i live in Reading so to get to Kings Cross takes an hour and costs me upwards of £35 anyway by train from Reading.

Its the same if your flying to MME also (which i do regularly over driving or going by train - as 95% of the time BMI is cheaper and quicker)

[4567]

This article worries me when i see the way this guys talking!

BmiBaby will probably be sold (was expected)
Lufthansa are considering selling slots and i think we can safely say the first flights to go will be domestic kissing goodbye to GLA/EDI/MME/LBA maybe even DUB.
Chance Lufthansa could use the slots for their own self gain now theres open skies!Will have to wait an see i suppose! Here is the article: Business Feed Article | Business | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8044217)

[BombardierCR7]

Lufthansa will probably be peddling all sorts of scenario's into the public domain over the coming weeks to measure reaction. Lufthansa maybe already experienced with aquisition, but what they do with any of the bmi companies will inextricably be linked to what happens with any Austrian, Alitalia, SAS or contolling interest in Brussels Airlines aquisition, should any or all happen. Money is money, a lot disappears through one hole, you just need to make sure enough is coming in at the other hole. I imagine there is a lot of water to flow under the bridge yet, so perhaps premature to jump to any conclusions just yet.

[Bishop of Baku]

Virgin in link with Dubai International Capital to acquire 20% of slots from bmi and take 5 of their A321s
Etihad to aquire 40% of bmi slots.

Seen 2 days ago on screen at Lufti HQ

[ravfooty]

Virgin in link with Dubai International Capital to acquire 20% of slots from bmi and take 5 of their A321s
Etihad to aquire 40% of bmi slots.

Seen 2 days ago on screen at Lufti HQ
I'm intrigued, can you elaborate on your source a bit? Who saw it, you or someone told you they know someone that told them about someone? And what kind of screen? Someone at this office left a big message on their screen saying the above? Why would they do that? Hmm :ok:

[roy2711]

These lovely people that talk tripe "seen on a screen at LH hq"
why would anyone have something like that on a screen for all to see and if so methinks they would be getting into a lot of trouble:=
I really wish people would stop adding 2 and 2 and coming up with doh:ugh:

[1033]

LOL @ Bish

B.O.B. is back with avengence:ok:

How's life treating you since BMed? Is the grass greener over at VS?

[BIGBAD]

It's a done deal, lufty are keeping 10% of slots for there own operation, whats left of bmi mainline going to BA. Baby is going to flybe:eek:

[pointless username]

Source for this major tidbit?

[DTVAirport]

He won't have a credible source. Face it, no-one will know what LH has in store for BD until at the very earliest mid-January 2009. Anything else is pure rumour.

[Ian Brooks]

Big Bad
Your posts on the two BMI threads seem strange to me
"heard a rumour that the bishop of frog hall has sold out to the german's ?? can this be true ??"

It's a done deal, lufty are keeping 10% of slots for there own operation, whats left of bmi mainline going to BA. Baby is going to flybehttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif

Please expand as your posts seem very vague and well !!!! what can I say, Strange
where did this bit of life changing ( for the employees at least) come from
Why would Lufthansa by BMI and only keep 10% slots and sell rest to BA
Maybe the Baby bit would work as it will make Flybe in to a major European carrier
What about bmi Commuter ops? cannot see BA wanting that but Flybe might

I think we all await a bit more info on this


Ian

[Bishop of Baku]

I am not suggesting credibility or otherwise with this story. This site is built upon rumor so I relay this one. Make of it what you will. It bothers me not what becomes of BMI other than the effect on friends.
The source of this was an aviation savvy computer service personnel. Allegedly

[SinBin]

Obviously true then!!:rolleyes:

Lufthansa are a pretty responsible company. They have already been on the record to say that they will use the same successful model as with Swiss. An autonomous company withing the DLH group.

I have heard similar from a close friend who is a very senior manager at Swiss, who is in the know about this and all things going on within the DLH group. A possibility of 5 daily loss making slot pairings going to Swiss for a Heathrow-Geneva and others within the group of airlines, possibly under codeshare which would make sense. It's not as simple as 'selling slots'. They're not actually 'owned'.

[Certa Cito]

Mike Rutter Flybe commercial director) told me personally that Flybe have absolutely no interest in BMI Baby. Wrong business type and wrong aircraft type for the Flybe model.

Now Regional.......................mmm!

But the price would need to be right ;)

[TwinAisle]

Another thought.... does anyone think even for a fraction of a second that BA would be allowed to have another 11% of the Heathrow slots? The Competition boys would be on them like a dog with fleas, spurred on, no doubt, by a whole host of other LHR users....

[CheekyVisual]

The truth of the matter is that no one outside LH knows what they are going to do with BMI come January. Most of what is "rumoured" in the previous 39 pages of rumour and speculation is just that. We all like to do it that's why we post here. Most of what is reported in the press doesn't come from a man listening at a window somewhere in Germany but comes from the previous 39 pages and others like them where we (who are deemed to have a good idea what is going on - which we haven't) are all speculating. As the saying goes "I have that on good authority". Well that's what a dustbin emptier at the FT told me !

Everything that is speculated here is an option I can't honestly say there is no chance BMI will disappear, Baby be closed and Regional end up as an offshoot of the mighty FlyBe. The problem is everytime I go to work now there is so much doom and gloom largely related to what has been reported on these pages I wonder, if like John Sergeant, the fun has finally gone out of it ! It's always worth a reminder to everyone getting hot under the collar or suicidal, read this site as you read the tabloid newspapers, remember 99% of it is entirely made up !

Anyway I never believe anything until the caterers tell me ! (The trouble is they get all their inside knowledge from here now as well !)

[doris1]

i've come to the conclusion that what will be will be... if i have a job in 3 months time, whether it be seeing out the last few "charter" bgi's/anu's and las's or transfering down to the rumour mill that is lhr then it's a bonus, looking for a new job, contemplating another training course or working 9 2 5 terrifies me, i like alot of people have become complacent with the fact that man was "safe", and now that the anouncement that l/h man is closing has had to wake me up.
like many people say on here, lets what and see mid jan what lh are going to do, cus speculating is all any of us are doing at the moment, and it doesn't make for a good working atmosphere, lets just do the job in hand for now and wait to see what the real outcome will be.
love the bit about the caterers :D

[Airbus215]

Doris
Perphaps the most sensible and level headed post on the subject todate.
And also one that cuts thru the sentiment of the situation at MAN L/Haul
Im sure that you will have a position at MAN or LHR and hope that whatever the outcome it will fit your personal circumstances.

[doris1]

thanks airbus,
hopefully we that want to move will all have jobs, only time will tell. i wouldn't mind though seeing some rosters and finding out what the mix is like before i decide, but no doubt i'll be transfering down, what's that old saying..... better the devil you know lol,
if we all have a positive outlook then maybe things will improve, job prospects anywhere at the moment are few and far between, but if i need to look elsewhere then so be it, but for the time being anyway i'm stuck with the hat and fabulous shoulder pads ;)

[SimonS]

Says in the Saudi press today that BA will be flying to both Riyadh and Jeddah from 29th March, 5 times a week to each with a 777 and 767 respectively.

No need to go via Riyadh with BMI any more.

Thank you BMI and goodnight.

[lexxity]

Well can we have our 330 back @ MAN and keep the ORD then?

[IB4138]

Time for bmi management to fall on swords me thinks!

:ugh:

[SWBKCB]

from Flight :

BMI chief Nigel Turner is warning that the UK carrier will post its highest-ever losses this year, a plight which has prompted intensified cost-cutting and talk of restructuring. In an internal memo, distributed to BMI's staff on 26 November, Turner said: "Our financial results this year will produce the largest loss we have ever recorded by a considerable margin."

[spannerhead]

But he'll still honour a IRO 5% pay rise this April?

[Mr Flaps]

BA have over priced their tickets on this route. With a very price sensitive market out there. BA may be back flying to the Kingdom but how full will the flights be when there is a £500 diffferance between bmi and BA. With bmi being the cheaper option. Will be an interesting one to watch. I did not think bmi would survive on the TLV route with BA and ELAL but they are holding out pretty well.

[Max Angle]

I did not think bmi would survive on the TLV route with BA and ELAL but they are holding out pretty well.

This is true, TLV is often overbooked but I don't think we have much hope of competing with BA on Jeddah, they have a direct flight and we don't, end of story.

[isw21]

This may be why bmi are losing so much money then, their fares can't cover the costs

[SinBin]

Obvious choice would be double daily to AMM and TLV on 321, and direct Jeddah on the 330!! Use 3 loss making slot pairs! Negates using a barbie jet on shorthaul for slot filling purposes and would mean we were less overcrewed. Everone wins in the short term!

[rampboy767]

Is there any news or rumors about BMI starting up from BRS? Any idea what routes they would operate?

[Jenson Button]

rampboy767,,, there has been talk of bmir opening at SOU and BRS plus others but its never come to nowt. Unless you have seen requests for slots at BRS then its probably just hot air.

JB

[globetrotter79]

Is there any news or rumors about BMI starting up from BRS

Not heard anything as such, but one would assume that it would make some good sense to use BMIR jungle jets to do stuff like the BRS-FRA...and maybe add BRS-MUC?? Get a higher frequency for better connections and, onw would assume, with locally based crew, a lower cost than nightstopping LH crews to get decent early morning departures ex-UK.

I just wonder whether a similar tactic might be used by BMI/LH at the likes of LBA etc to attempt to switch interlining traffic into LH hubs in germany and make up for loss of connections at LHR...assuming they'd pull the UK-LHR domestics post takeover...?

[teamax]

Charters, being doing them on and off for years.

[Bishop of Baku]

I was really board the other night halfway across the pond so was thumbing through the aircraft library.
The following sheet was seen in the approvals folder

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Temporary MNPS approval for the following airframes is granted on VS/VIR AOC.
Full approval to follow pending processing of CA4040.

MSN 1690
MSN 1711
MSN 2190
MSN 2653
MSN 2799
MSN 3081

Effective 1/12/08.

[Jerseyman]

Bish..........you old stirrer!!!!!:ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

The con nos relate to :

G-MEDF
G-MEDG
G-MEDJ
G-MEDL
G-MEDM
G-EUXJ

ie the BMED Airbus fleet and a BA A321 ! What's the Virgin connection or is it a wind up?

[SinBin]

Hang on he's forgotten the other mid haul aircraft GMEDN, GMIDO, GMIDT and GMIDY. Nice try Bish but those MED aircraft are just the original BMED batch!!!

[The Big Easy]

Nice wind-up!

TBE.

[Bishop of Baku]

Skipness, you have managed to get 8 aircraft from 6 msn’s

Ill take a guess and say the G-MID… 321s don’t have ACT . No use to us.

Yes it is curious that MEDN, the only 321 in bmi colours is not coming over.

[Count von Altibar]

What a load of bo***X!

[xxgunnerxx]

Just a SLF here, but I got a question on how the crews do the LHR-ALA-FRU run. Do they overnight in FRU and then back to LHR or overnight in ALA then do the FRU run, overnight in ALA and back to LHR?:ugh: Thanks.

[mutualswap]

crews ops LHR/ALA/FRU
2days downroute in FRU then FRU/ALA/LHR

[lamina]

Thats rubbish too!

4 daily New Yorks beginning in June, although probably Lufty aircraft to start with.

Thats what I call a rumour!

[roy2711]

A330 now showing in avbly for LHR-CAI also with a prem ecy cabin and PE fares avbl to book
Still not showing in avblty for LHRAMM and neither are PE fares for the route!!!
RUMOUR ctrl says its going on the LHR-DME route (we shall see)

[Grackle]

Gawd ... it can only get better

[Homo Simpson]

Shame BMI management had to lie about the reasons for pulling the Manchester routes.

Flew them for 7 years and only now they dont make money???

Nothing to do with them hedging their fuel at very high prices?

Never mind ooop North monkeys dont do much long haul at the pointy end of the plane, all too stupid and poor.

[SinBin]

The US/Caribbean leisure routes have never made money, and market saturation caused ORD to go, nothing to do with northerners! When you see what money can be made going to CAI and AMM from LHR, our main base, it makes perfect sense. bmi is a business and it has to survive like the rest, and flying to the US from MAN is not going to help when it makes a loss.

[tristar500]

Did hear that VS will take the A330s and base them at LGW for the 'beach fleet' from MAR 09... Astreaus will cover the A330 work (whats left)...

[SinBin]

Who from the daily mail or beardy himself? What on earth do VS have to do with bmi? I'll tell you what, NOTHING! The 330s are going on the mid haul and Saudi routes where they will be very overstretched!! Clearly this thread is becoming full of sciolists, ridiculous people who think they know things and don't actually have a clue!!!!

[airhumberside]

Sky News reports VS in talks with LH over bmi's future

[SinBin]

Must be true then!! This has been going on for years beardy must be bricking it!!

[lexxity]

Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUKTRE4B935P20081210)

Looks like it might be for real this time.

[mutualswap]

the words

river , down , sold

come to mind:{:rolleyes:

[mmeteesside]

Looks like bmi are putting an E135 onto LHR-MME from 2nd February 2009, with A319's replacing the 135 on the JER. So where does the MME 145 go?

Is this LH's first influence or just a bit of re-arranging by bmi?

[Count von Altibar]

Lufthansa very unlikely to sell to Virgin Atlantic who seem to be almost desperate to forge a link/merger with bmi. Co-operation is the more likely option as Lufthansa has waited for a long time to realise their initial investment many years ago and would be unlikely to give it up to Sir Dickie. Another option is for LH to buy the Singapore 49% of VS and merge the two entities. Who knows? One thing for certain is that bmi isn't performing particularly well and neither is Virgin Atlantic. Lufthansa offers a safety net for bmi due to their strong position as consolidation takes place in aviation, Virgin remains exposed without an alliance or feeder network into London Heathrow as they cope with the fallout of open skies. Both airlines are really feeling the squeeze as the economic situation worsens by the day. You need deep pockets to be in the airline business right now.

[roy2711]

hear hear :D:D:D:D

[K.Whyjelly]

Lufthansa Keeps Open Mind On Virgin/BMI
http://i.cdn.turner.com/money/.element/img/1.0/branding/dj_logo.gif (http://www.dj.com/) December 11, 2008: 01:27 PM ET



CHICAGO -(Dow Jones)- Deutsche Lufthansa AG (LHA.XE) said Thursday that it is not in serious talks with Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. about potential cooperation over British Midland Airways Ltd., or bmi, in which the German airline is in the process of buying a majority stake.
But Lufthansa said it maintains an open mind about potential cooperation with Virgin Atlantic.
The German flag carrier also said it had the capacity to absorb more acquisitions and strategic stakes on top of the various ones it has made in Europe and the U.S. in recent months.
"From a management point of view, we can do much more," Wolfgang Mayrhuber, Lufthansa's chairman and chief executive, said at an industry event in Chicago.
Virgin Atlantic said Wednesday that it had held talks with Lufthansa about the future of bmi, which controls a number of slots at London's Heathrow Airport.
Expressions of interest in some sort of cooperation or tie-up between bmi and Virgin Atlantic have not led to serious negotiations, said Klaus Walther, Lufthansa's senior vice president corporate communications.
"We want to find out what [Virgin] wants," noted Walther. He said it would be "logical" to integrate bmi into the Lufthansa group, adding that "there are other options."
Lufthansa is set to lift its stake in bmi, which focuses on short- and medium- haul flights in Europe, from 30% minus one share to 80% next month.
Europe's second-largest carrier by traffic after Air France-KLM SA (3112.FR), Lufthansa recently has expanded through the acquisition of Swiss International Airlines and a 45% stake in Brussels Airlines, with a pending deal to take a 41.6% share in Austrian Airlines (AUA.VI). It has a 19% stake in JetBlue Airways Corp. (JBLU), a low-fare U.S. carrier.
Lufthansa has also been linked with taking a stake in SAS Scandinavian Airline Systems, and is keeping an eye on the restructuring of Italian flag carrier Alitalia (AZA.MI).
Mayrhuber said Lufthansa's model eschews outright mergers: "Our concept is a modular one. It's like a planetary system that works together."
He said complete integration brings "dis-synergies." Lufthansa prefers an approach he described as "one kitchen, several restaurants".
Nigel Turner, bmi's chief executive, declined to comment on the prospect of any deal with Virgin Atlantic.
-By Doug Cameron, Dow Jones Newswires

[ETOPS]

So Sir Richard Branson makes public statement about VS talking to LH about a tie-up with BMI only to have the Germans say "that it is not in serious talks with Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. about potential cooperation over British Midland Airways Ltd., or bmi, "

More beardy spin I think...........

[stormin norman]

Lufthansa prefers an approach he described as "one kitchen, several restaurants".

So BMI could either be the Ritz or Burger king

[RevMan2]

So BMI could either be the Ritz or Burger king

Greasy spoon, more like it...

[Bearpit]

Sunways Holidays announcing flights on BMI next summer from GLA. Anyone know the score?

[Skipness One Echo]

BMI have been operating charters from Glasgow for longer than I've been alive mate. Nought unusual.

[DAr19]

Hi. Looking for a flight to Beijing from MAN. Does anybody know of any way to get a through ticket with the BMI shuttles and on to Air China?

I was surprised to learn that Air China do not offer this on the internet nor do BMI, am I missing a blindingly obvious reason why there is no star alliance link?

If not it'll be KLM!

DAr19

[jubilee]

There is a connection through a BMI code share on Lufthansa to Frankfurt, and on to Air China. You could go Lufthansa all the way,which is cheaper.
See Expedia.
Regards,
Jubilee

[DAr19]

Thank you Jubilee, I decided to go for Emirates in the end.

DAr19

[EC-ILS]

Anyone know if BD have any plans in regard to their handling arrangments at LHR with Aviance? It just doesnt seem to be working, we had a flight today arrive minus 22 local bags and no sign of when they are going to arrive!

Ive spoken to many BD staff from LHR and they say Aviance just provide them with problem after problem.

[silverstreak]

If Aviance loose the BD contract at LHR, it would be real bad for the whole company.

They seem to be in general, quite good up north!

[The96er]

As regards BD, Aviance just load and unload the bags - all check-in and Dispatcher functions are performed by BD's own staff which is usually the problem as to why bags don't travel and thus fail to arrive at their destination.

The96er

[757_Driver]

not for long. send me a pm if you want more info.

[Kirks gusset]

Rumour has it BMI are going down to just one 757, the other is going back to Astraeus, surely if they start to use this 757 on short haul it will cost a fortune in crew and maintenance? Cant see the AEU crews wanting to drive back and forth to LHR daily! Maybe the contract allows for this, but is it worth it?

[frontcheck]

The airline is not there to serve the crew, they may not want to drive to LHR daily but they may have to !

[Alan Tracey]

I think Aviance have recently signed another 2 year with BMi.

Missing bags at LHR are normally all related to late conx flights...

[aeulad]

Does anyone know when the ex-BMED aircraft are due to be repainted into full bmi colours? They have had them for more than a year now.

Regards

Mike

[aztruck]

Aeu crews will go where the work is. The 75 is the perfect mid haul beast for BMI. Half the cost of a 330 and goes almost as far with 160 plus pax. It could of course do it with 201, 221, 0r 233 config but I'm sure the Business pax would get upset on the way to Almaty or Freetown with minimal legroom!
Shame we are down to one 75 but it is clearly a result of rationalisation and also the economic downturn. The whole world is in the same boat. Doubly a shame because a lot of BMI flight deck seemed to be very interested in the 75 as an upgrade or transfer option. It would have been terrific to fly with them, but that seems to be a diminishing option now?
Things are very much in flux at the moment for all airlines, but like everything else, economic reality is a harsh taskmaster, and will not be denied.
We all have to justify our existence, or go to the wall. The right attitude goes a long way.
So driving to LHR is not a problem.
Ever.

[SADDLER]

aztruck
Well said.

[doo]

Maybe the issue of one of the 75's needing heavy maintenance just a short while into the contract has put bmi off?

[6chimes]

Or possibly because bmi don't actually need two 757's as they only really need the extra range on the Freetown and Almaty/Bishkek. I hear that using one on the Tel Aviv was a disaster mainly because of the standard of cabin.

On the subject of bags not being carried, as stated already most of the time it is down to not enough transit time between flights. There is another reason which is if there are to many bags checked in by pax and hence the a/c would be overweight.

6

[EC-ILS]

Im talkin about local LHR-DUB/EDI/MAN/GLA bags etc, a A320/A319 overloaded with luggage on such short flights? Thats bull!

BMI delayed more luggage per 1000s passengers than any other airline in Europe during 2008 and that includes BA, somthing isnt quite right?

[INKJET]

That life with T1 & T2 i'm afraid!! BA figure in terms of lost/delayed lugagged have improved now most flight are from T5 and that has settled down, by 2012 when the new Star terminal is up and running things will improve.

The new German management may bring some new ideas (and contractors) to the problem.:=

[exeng]

I don't think the operation could be described as a disaster. However I agree that the cabin on the 757 does not match that of the competition in BA. BMI must have known that and put the 75 on the route anyway.

On the flights I operated we experienced reasonably good load factors but probably not enough in business class to see a good yield.

The pax food on these flights is another issue altogether - starving was probably the better option.


Regards
Exeng

[thewhites]

Rumor has it Tel Aviv going onto A330 twice daily.

[Alan Tracey]

I bet plans have changed over the last few days.....

[roy2711]

Re Lost luggage situ
one of our biggest probs for lost baggage up here are BA reroutes especially on our last flight of the day, we get quite a few and they never seem to come with thier bags usually turn up the next morning on the first BA flt:ugh:

[stormin norman]

The head Of IATA has today predicted in the times Alitalia and BMI will suffer the most in the downturn.Even with LH in charge its cash flow must be poor.

[keepitlit]

As we all know everyone one is loosing money but you couldnt ask to have a better owner than LH in this current downturn.
The fact we may be hit bad this year is no different to anyone else's position regardless of the size of lose and I wouldnt be put off by this.
Remember its been rudderless for a long time and the staff had no good news for a long time, no expansion when everyone else grew and no direction just reaction.
I think big changes are coming in the next couple of years.
The slots are its bets asset that is no secret but the key is what can/will be done with them.
We may take heavy losses next year but I wouldnt write them off just yet after all Wolfy isnt going to let it loose the slots or any more money and hes in it for the long term and he hasn't make a bad bet!

regards

Keepitlit

Times online 27/12/08

The sky's the limit for Wolfgang Mayrhuber, chief executive of Lufthansa. Not only is the German airline taking control of bmi, the British carrier, on January 12, but it also wants to swoop for Austrian Airlines, and SAS, the Scandinavian airline.

Mr Mayrhuber, 60, who has been running Lufthansa since 2001, is buying up rivals across Europe with a speed and certainty that Willie Walsh - his counterpart at British Airways, who is still trying for a merger with Iberia after months of negotiations - can only dream of.

Air France-KLM, Lufthansa's other European rival, has also been left reeling by Mr Mayrhuber's speed of turn. He may soon head Europe's largest airline if Lufthansa's takeover of Austrian Airlines is approved by the European Union, leap-frogging Air France-KLM. Lufthansa agreed to acquire the state's 41.6 per cent stake in Austrian Airlines on December 5, paving the way for a full takeover. Earlier this month, the Austrian Government gave its approval to a deal that will see it take on some of the carrier's debt.

Lufthansa has indicated that its biggest task for 2009 will be to turnaround struggling bmi, which Mr Mayrhuber invested in partly to get hold of the airline's lucrative Heathrow landing slots. He said this month that he would not make any decisions about acquiring the remaining 20 per cent of bmi until he has turned the airline into a profit-making carrier.

Related Links
BAA prospects for Gatwick sale look bumpy
“Afterwards, we can look at long-term strategic options, which are offered us through bmi's strong positioning at London's Heathrow airport,” he said.

Lufthansa's chief also boasted that his airline does not have financing concerns, unlike some of its rivals.

Reportedly also on Mr Mayrhuber's 2009 to-do list is a long-term buyout of SAS.

Lufthansa and SAS have been in on-off merger talks since the autumn, but the pair never quite got there. The situation is complicated by the fact that the governments of Sweden, Norway and Denmark together hold 50 per cent of the Scandinavian carrier, so Mr Mayrhuber must secure their approval.

And in the background are two even bigger fish: Alitalia and Virgin Atlantic.

Lufthansa has been vying with Air France-KLM to strike an alliance with the bankrupt Italian flag-carrier and, in the medium term, Sir Richard Branson's British airline looks like an excellent prospect for a strategic alliance.

[Facelookbovvered]

Rudderless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Might be rudderless for a bit longer, a Regional bod in the cafe at Leeds said the LH takeover was on hold until the approval of LH take over of Austrian was complete and that could run until March 09, in the meantime the management in Aberdeen have been told they can't run any courses or upgrades without approval from the bmi CEO & FD

[keepitlit]

Your information is correct, its due to admin hold up with Austrian but i wouldnt get too excited about it.

regards

Keepitlit

[SinBin]

To compare bmi and Alitalia is irresponsible to the last. Alitalia has been operating at a loss for years mainly due to its ridiculous unions. It has zero capital and has been run into the ground by Marxist fools!

bmi on the other hand is fairing no worse than any other medium sized airline in the present climate, yes it'll make a loss for this year and probably next,but it'll get back on its feet when Lufty start to improve the brand; but is very lean and has been for years, it made a profit last year and has a sizeable chunk of cash in the bank. These careless speculators are irresponsible and not only have they talked us into a recession but they also send good companies to the wall!:ugh:

[Mr Flaps]

The longer bmi remains without someone fixed at the helm then it will do the company no good. There is already a growing un ease of what may happen when LH have control.

The airline is loosing its way a little too, which is not good. Is bmi a shot haul airline or Med haul airline and what does bmi stand for and how does the brand stand up in this climate to the likes of BA.
What do people think of, when they come acorss bmi.

I see and hear far to many people surprised bmi that fly to CAI, TLV and many others. The publin still think bmi 'British Midland' domestic, and europe only.

The company does not bangs it own drum enough and make people stand up and take note of what bmi stands for and what it does. What is different about bmi??? I struggle.
What is the compaines mission statement and what is its purpose.
What does bmi do that others dont? What is bmi's USP???
When LH get control, lets hope they do something to correct this and make a world airline that is known world wide.

[747-436]

The company does not bangs it own drum enough and make people stand up and take note of what bmi stands for and what it does. What is different about bmi??? I struggle.

It does, but when it does it does stupid things like advertise itself as Heathrows 'Second Favourite' Airline. What company advertises themselves being second in something?!?!?
I really wish BA put up a poster next to them saying, 'yes but we are the favourite' !!!!

[757_Driver]

actually it said "heathrows second largest airline" the aim being to tell people that Virgin was not the uk's second airline - as most people think it is. However everyone read the advert as "second favourite" rather than "2nd largest" probably due to the BA "favourite airline" phrase being so ingrained in peoples minds. However I concur that it should rank right up there with the worlds most moronic ad campaigns and someone should be shot.

[RAPC]

Actually 757_Driver, there was a separate advert with the headline of "Heathrow's second favourite airline" which ran in addition to the one you mentioned.

It certainly appeared in The Sunday Times, The Sunday Telegraph and the Evening Standard. I think it may have been used as well on an outdoor campaign using poster sites.

Utterly bizarre copy though. Like a bad attempt to copy the Avis "we're number 2, so we try harder" campaigns of a few decades ago.

[sweetie76]

Didn't Air Europe try something similar at LGW?

[Facelookbovvered]

Any truth in the story doing the rounds that the Regional ERJ's are coming out of LHR at the end of the current winter program? if so what will they do with them (and the crews!!):eek:

[SinBin]

I think they'll be reduced in number + I think some of the S/H destinations/services to MME, MAN, and LBA will be cut, with expansion of mid-haul, as there does seem to be a long term strategy for expansion of that business. + some of the slots will bound to be sold off or transfered to Swiss or others in the DLH group. Hopefully all this will be positive for us on the shopfloor, but who knows.

I've stopped worrying now as it was too boring, stuck 2 fingers up to the credit crunch, and booked myself a holiday!! By all accounts us at Mainline will be working flat out this summer with a busy charter season.

[Deep and fast]

2 of the wet leased units to mainline will return after the end of the winter program. It has been said that work has to be found for them or XI and Xo may go back to the leasor with implications on crew levels.

I have to say I think they will find work for them though.

Happy new year D And F

[keepitlit]

I think you find mainline doing charters again in the summer and they will need these aircraft to cover mainlinme work

regards

Keepitlit

[OliWW]

Acquisition of bmi Regional & bmibaby

It was announced on 30th November 2008 that Flybe is in talks to buy bmi's subsidiary operations bmi Regional and bmibaby, the Mail on Sunday reported. A decision will be made and finalised by 19th January 2009. The two airlines are not core to the strategy of bmi's new owner, Lufthansa, it said.
Lufthansa took over bmi last month, but the German airline has indicated it is more interested in bmi's long-haul routes and valuable Heathrow slots than in the two subsidiaries.
Bmi Regional is a UK-focussed regional airline, while bmibaby is a low-cost airline that flies to a number of European destinations from its four main bases

[keepitlit]

In short, No

It was ust a rumour, with lufty buying german wings who knows, i think there is one or two curved balls to come!

regards

Keepitlit

[MarkD]

Well, since Flybe has finally figured out how to dispose of 145s they got paid by BA to take I guess LH are paying them to take BMIRs?

[stormin norman]

I think there is one or two curved balls to come

more than Monty Pannesar could bowl !

[Little Blue]

Montys bowling has been a tad predictable of late...
I fear they may be more of the Murali/Warne type !

[TCX69]

bmi are operating a series of Adhoc flights from Manchester to Nairobi towards the end of January using an A330 after it ends the Chicago route. Anyone know what these flights would be for?

[GBALU53]

Facelookboverred

You said at the end of December, are BMI Regional comming out of Heathrow at the end of the Winter.:(

Has the move started?:sad:

As of last Sunday the Heatrow-Jersey-Heathrow flights are back to an Airbus from an EMB, could this be the first signs of change, with Lufty moveing in for the full takeover only just round the corner?:*

As far as a number of people understand regional and Baby will have no connection once the takeover is done, so what is going to happed with them if and when the takeover is signed, sealed and delivered?:D

[sweetie76]

Series of 4 flights on behalf of MOD

[INKJET]

bmibaby & bmi regional are owned 100% by bmi, so changes in ownership from SMB/LUFFTY/SAS TO Lufthansa (80%) and SAS (20%) will not in its self have any effect.

As to what plans Lufthansa has for baby or regional time will tell, but i wouldn't expect WW3 to break out overnight, i can see Regional doing more feeder work in to FRA, but it only works if you are flying longhaul East bound.

As long as baby don't loose money i think they are safe for now, the heavy checks are all done by Lufftytech now which is a good way of moving money from the UK to Germany and as with most LoCo the cash flow is very positive as result of forward booking up to 6 months in advance.

Lets see what happens when they are in the driving seat in March

[flying macaco]

Any signs of the deal going through this month or will it indeed be closer to March? Hoping for some concrete info soon amid the rumours...!

[Count von Altibar]

Have heard it's been put back until Feb/Mar sometime. However, Steve Ridgeway(VAA exec) seems to hint at end of Jan for signing. As they're (VAA) in talks with Lufty over the merger of bmi/VAA I guess he's got a reasonable idea of when the signing over will take place.

[stormin norman]

With the price reductions VS are offering today i'd be suprised if they've any cash to put into BMI.

[runway30]

Do we have any evidence that they are seriously talking or is this just wishful thinking?

[INKJET]

So SMB gets his dosh next week, the germans probably thought they were being clever in getting him to agree to be paid in Euro's, the smartest man in aviaition today (probably)

Sir enjoy your retirement, i don't think we have seen the last of you yet (hopefully) probably

[Count von Altibar]

Do a search on google with the names of companies involved runway30, it'll show up a wealth of evidence over recent months.

[MUFC_fan]

When the Cairo flight becomes an A330, will it keep the current lay out and interior or are they changing it for LHR flights?

Thanks

[LHRKLBD]

The A330 for CAI is staying in the same config as it is in MAN.

[LHRKLBD]

CAI is due to start 02 April
AMM is uncomfirmed (rumor is that the A330 will not be operating this route now but not comfirmed)

[Flightrider]

The original plan was to put one A330 on CAI and the second on TLV, but there was apparently a bilateral issue with the Israelis over upgrading from narrow-body to wide-body aircraft. Plan B was to put the second aircraft on Amman but with negotiations continuing to be able to fly it on Tel Aviv.

[LHRKLBD]

They must have seem to have come to an agreement as there is going to be a 2200 dep TLV on the A330.

[MUFC_fan]

Just been looking at the CAI turnaround - will only be 50 minutes!

Maybe for the A320 but will they be able to do this with the A330?! I suppose it is only a 5 hour flight - would they be able to load fuel in London and not need to do so again until it returns to the capital or would it need to refuel in Cairo?

I'm guessing it will be refuelled in Cairo...

[crewmeal]

I've just bought a ticket for the 1st April AMM - LHR and its booked for an A321 and onto MAN on an A319. It's the same when I come back to AMM on 3rd May.

The strange thing about booking this flight is the fare structure:

AMM - LHR - AMM = £585

AMM - LHR - MAN - LHR - AMM = £415 which is what I've paid

What's the reason for this? The agent in the Indian call centre didn't know the reason when I booked the flight.

[INKJET]

Lufthansa said it does not expect to complete original plans to increase its shareholding in bmi to 80% this month, Dow Jones reported. LH has not officially submitted a request to the EU for antitrust approval. It currently holds 30%-minus-one-share in bmi but plans to purchase an additional 50%-plus-one-share stake from bmi founder and Chairman Michael Bishop following the latter's decision last fall to exercise his sell option

[stormin norman]

AMM - LHR - MAN - LHR - AMM = £415 which is what I've paid

Thay can't be making any money at all on that fare after you take off the taxes etc

[sealink]

have heard a rumour bmi are to drop their lhr - jer route at end of March. even the reduction in capacity by introducing the embraer has failed to increase revenue.

[lfc84]

there's been much debate about bmi / LH and hubs recently. whilst the following link may not be entirley relevant here there are interestign comments from LH about using FRA as a hub and pulling in passengers from MAN. It got me thinking about the BMI LHR services...anyway make of it what you will...

BBC NEWS | Business | Frankfurt ready to fill Heathrow's shoes (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7829384.stm)

[nef]

If FRA want to pick up more regional connecting pax and seriously challenge LHR then they need to expand the amount of UK airports that are connected directly to FRA - I think only LHR, BHX, MAN, BRS and EDI are currently connected(?) If you compare that to AF and particularly KLM, they're a long way behind. I guess that's where bmi, particularly regional, could come in, as a FRA feeder airline from the likes of GLA, LBA, NCL, ABZ etc.

[flyer55]

Yeah its official that bmi service lhr-jer ends in march

details on travelmole.com

[airhumberside]

The CAA have awarded bmi traffic rights for LHR-Kiev five times a week

[INKJET]

In flight meals will be chicken( Kiev) tonight :sad:

[Euroboy39]

Congrats to BMI on gaining the rights to Kyiv- it really seems to fit in with their model of mid-haul CIS destinations.

Also in BMIs original wishlist when they took over BMED was Minsk, in neighbouring Belarus- I was wondering why this hasn't materialised. At present the Belarussian national airline Belavia fly to London (not sure of frequencies), but BA nor any other British carrier seem to fly this route- this would surely leave some bilateral frequencies on the British side unused- does anyone know why BMI doesn't have/use these? Does it not want them or can it not get them? Thanks.

[pointless username]

There aren't enough hours in the day for 1 330 to do 2 rotations to TLV.
I beleive it will start around early April, but thats just a best guess.
If it leaves around 2200z 'twould arrive ~0300z which is 0500local. The return assuming again about 5 hrs+1.5 hrs turnaround would put it back into LHR about 0930z. Even with a reduced report of 60 mins thats 12h30 which is over max FDP for pilots, and 30 mins inside for CC (but they usually have a longer report anyway, 75 mins).

I don't see it being a there and back, looks more like a ~27 hr layover.

[LHRKLBD]

who says it would be one A330 doing it. There is nothing to say the the first one would dep as normal 1155. Then the second one would dep at 2200 after returning from CAI.

[flying macaco]

Threat of job losses hangs over bmi as airline reneges on pay rise promise - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article5622144.ece)

Good luck to all at bmi. The mention of redundancies is those already being discussed within bmi baby I take it? Hope it's not talking about anything more.

[excrab]

the redundancies at bmi baby have already happened, and the numbers were not reduced at all by balpa offerring to give up the pay rise (before this latest announcements).

Almost certainly more to come across the group, and as for NT, Balpa are having a vote of no confidence in him, whatever that means. I suggest you might know he is lying because his lips move...

Good luck to all.

[mutualswap]

thats funny cos most of the ground/office staff have had no confidence in balpa for years:ugh::rolleyes:

[stormin norman]

thats funny cos most of the ground/office staff have had no confidence in balpa for years

and why would they be in BALPA then ?

[roy2711]

Indeed!!!!
Try GMB for size (albeit not very big).
Well i think a pay freeze is better than losing a job, but as stated that is not guaranteed either :sad:.
bmi needs to find some kinda of common ground with its staff and at least if they want to freeze wages then give staff some reassurance that jobs will be safe for the forseeable future.
Noone seems to know what LH will do when they take over, other than what was said at the beginning, which was very little :ugh:.

[Mr Flaps]

7 million increase in cost base that in simple the company cant afford to pay it to staff.
LH questioned bmi's judgement on that matter. Makes me feel unsure about the board sitting up north do they know what is going on with the airline if it took LH to nudge them into changing the plans.
But bmi does need to come clean when LH are the main share holder. Are ground staff going to be out sourced to a handling agent. Yes NT said open commos from him but at the mo very little.
There is very little sense of being part at something within bmi. Staff dont feel valued and 'good thinking' is all to often over looked a complete change in working culture would help this airline big time.
Total Quality Management comes to mind here. But hey as a csa u are paid to do not use your brain at bmi. robots.

[MAN777]

I know how Bmi can make some money !

Put that now redundant A330 that seems to spend a lot of time doing nothing at Manchester onto a transatlantic route, say Chicago daily !!! :)

[Dr. Spin]

... and in the process any little remaining credibility that the existing bmi management team had has just vanished!...

(It won't take long to establish competency under the watchful eye of LH)

[MARKEYD]

Are BMI basing an aircraft at Gatwick this summer for charters , as our flight to Skiathos in the summer is with BMI with an 0800 departure so it cant be a W flight pattern , and what aircraft is being used ?

[Little Blue]

Off the thread, I just want to pass on some very sad news.
Bob Campbell, bmi ops, and ex-RAF, passed away this morning after a short illness.
One of the biggest characters at the Hall and will be sorely missed by his many many friends.
Our thoughts are with his wife, Sal, and family.
Miss you mate.
LB

[airhumberside]

Are BMI basing an aircraft at Gatwick this summer for charters , as our flight to Skiathos in the summer is with BMI with an 0800 departure so it cant be a W flight pattern , and what aircraft is being used ?
In the past bmi have positioned in an aircraft to LGW on Friday nights for weekend charters, and then positioned the aircraft back out on Sunday nights - in effect outbasing it at Gatwick for the weekends. Is your flight a weekend flight or not. bmi not listed as serving Skiathos on the LGW charter timetable

[MARKEYD]

Its a BMI Charter flight on a Friday to Skiathos departing LGW at 0800 the charterer is Sunvil holidays

[Captain Lampshade]

Sunvil Holidays are not chartering the British Midland unit to Skiathos this summer. They will be flying with Viking Airlines.

[commit aviation]

Bmi currently have an Airbus operating the Friday evening LHR-LBA. It then positions to LGW for a series of charter flights before returning LGW-LHR on Sunday.
It may be this arrangement will continue for S09.

[flyer55]

BMI seem to be doing flights to Malta from lgw for air malta i think !

[mutualswap]

air malta codeshare

[sweetie76]

Being flown by Air Malta.............

[LHRKLBD]

KBP begining 29th March 2009.

2nd TLV is starting on the 30th March 2009.

CAI upgraded to A330 02 April 2009.

Both TLV upgraded to A330 03 May 2009.

[INKJET]

I see various newspapers are reporting that bmi pilots will get the on/off pay increase after all, but only for Jan / Feb at least for now!! wonder if the rest of the group will get their increase for April & May?

so what is 1/6th of RPI + 0.5%?

[Jamesair]

There is a much bigger charter operation by BMI for Summer 09 at NCL than we have seen in the past.

[Flightrider]

There is a much larger bmi charter operation virtually everywhere this summer as they move aircraft out of scheduled services onto charters.

1 aircraft based at Manchester flying to Greece with the odd W pattern into Gatwick

1 aircraft split between Glasgow (midweek) and Dublin (weekend)

1 aircraft operating peak season programme ex Belfast

1 aircraft operating a programme of Glasgow/Belfast during June/July moving to Manchester/Gatwick during July/August, then back to Glasgow in October etc

All of these are in addition to the usual weekend charters which bmi have undertaken on the scheduled service aircraft for quite a long time.

Announcements about some major changes to the scheduled service network rumoured to be coming out on Thursday.

[OliWW]

In July - September they will have a A321 at EMA with W Patterns into BHX, also rumors that WW will get a A321 for June - September at MAN

[MME4eva]

Announcements about some major changes to the scheduled service network rumoured to be coming out on Thursday.

Could this be the long awaited axe of MME-LHR?

[Flightrider]

Could this be the long awaited axe of MME-LHR

Most probably, although if it makes you feel better, I don't think you'll be the only ones.

[Skipness One Echo]

Is there any reason why someone thought it would be a good idea to put Manchester on the drop down menu in it's own little world and sort the rest of the world by the IATA code that you can't see.

So Canada is right at the end and Durham Tees Valley is next to Miami. ( MIA then MME ). Better not drop it as I am flying it in April.

Mental !!!

[INKJET]

The fur will fly if this comes to pass after baby pilots got the big R, :mad:

[RevMan2]

Is there any reason why someone thought it would be a good idea to put Manchester on the drop down menu in it's own little world and sort the rest of the world by the IATA code that you can't see.

So Canada is right at the end and Durham Tees Valley is next to Miami. ( MIA then MME ). Better not drop it as I am flying it in April.

Mental !!!

Terminal thickness at play.

Fedex (or UPS) sorted countries by their ISO abbreviations.

So you had to know that Germany is DE, Croatia, HR and South Africa ZA....

Morons at work

Mind you, bmi's the airline that
1. introduced elegantly translucent Diamond Club cards (that couldn't be read by the check-in kiosks - card has to interrupt a light barrier to activate the screen)
2. placed decorative dark blue background graphics on their boarding passes (which reduced the area for printed information by 30%) which were 3. high-gloss, meaning that whatever print was legible to start with smudged within seconds (because the ink couldn't be absorbed.)

Good thing they only ordered 5 million of them....

[virginblue]

From what I see, with the addition of TXL and MXP by Lufthansa at LHR, there is a need for no less than nine slots pairs. Any idea where these will come from as LH certainly will not axe nine of its own services. MME is of course an obvious victim, but what else faces the chop?

[Skipness One Echo]

The BMI call centre is in India and they barely speak English.....

They assure me that my MME-LHR is still operating and not cancelled yet. However if it is cancelled I will get a full refund. The flight of course is still being sold even though BMI know it will not operate.

In my view this is a hairs breadth from dishonesty, but entirely legal I am sure. If this is how BMI treat their customers is it any wonder I fly BA so much?

The old British Midland service is long dead and gone, BMI is a joke!

[Flightrider]

6 x MXP-LHR
3 x TXL-LHR
9 in total

3 x MME-LHR
4 x LBA-LHR
2 x JER-LHR
9 in total

[roy2711]

Are we all forgetting about the 55 slot pairs that have to be returned to BA as part of the Bmed deal.
So that will deffo put the cat amongst the pidgeons and how many more flts will face the axe.....
I dont however believe that LH will be taking slots from bmi for their new services!
As bmi need to find slots for the extra TLV and the new KBP flts
on top of the BA returns
Interesting times ahead:\

[virginblue]

Sure that they will axe LBA? While I see the point as far as MME and JER are concerned, I always thought that LBA was doing much better.

The reason why I am asking is that LH will switch the LH/BD code-shared LHR-CGN service from a 737-500 to a Avro RJ85 according to the timetable - and this would allow shifting the flight to LCY if needed. There are, however, other explanations for the equipment change such as Boeing 737-500s leaving the fleet and/or a decrease in demand (Lufthansa has used everything from CRJ, CR7, AR8 to B737s on the route in the past couple of years).

[Flightrider]

LHR-LBA
Nov08 8,341 pax (-35% versus previous year)
Dec08 6,789 pax (-39% versus previous year)
Jan09 7,253 pax (-31% versus previous year)
Based on 220 sectors flown in January, equates to 33 pax per flight

LHR-MME
Nov08 6,222 pax (-8% versus previous year)
Dec08 5,623 pax (-16% versus previous year)
Jan09 4,504 pax (-26% versus previous year)
Based on 176 sectors flown in January, equates to 25 pax per flight

Not exactly a picture of health and happiness. Stats from CAA website.

[mmeteesside]

MME was actually an average of 30 pax per flight, 149 sectors flown in January 09.

[INKJET]

The traffic numbers are not good for an Airbus, but ok if they are on an Embraer!!

Either way flying shorthaul in the UK to LHR is coming to an end, at least until R3 gets built or not?

Round 1 to enviromental-ist and the trains, well no not really, beacuse if your going to fly long haul East bound its CDG,AMS& FRA from most regional airports

West bound its Conny or KLM for me via AMS which is easy from the UK

Skipness

The few times i have had to speak to the call centre, they have been OK and to be fair if bmi have plans for route chops, they wont tell their staff or the call centre until there is a formal announcement, which seems to be anyday now

[Flightrider]

The traffic numbers are not good for an Airbus, but ok if they are on an Embraer!!

Not really - if you look at the operating costs on a sector like that, a high degree of the costs are fixed. Heathrow landing charge, nav fees and parking for 45 minutes for an Embraer 145 is £787 and for an Airbus A319, £858. If you assume an average fare of £75 on those routes, it means you've got to carry 10 passengers on an Embraer just to pay the Heathrow charges which is 20% of your capacity gone before you can pay any other bills. For an A319, it's 11 pax per flight to pay the landing fees but this only equates to 6% of your available seats.

Running RJ145s into Heathrow will only ever be a damage-limitation exercise unless you have extremely high yields. Even Luxair had to give in on that one eventually.

[INKJET]

Agreed, but they can't even fill an Embraer most days, so the lower fuel burn saves more cash if your flying empty seats around

[Max Angle]

Are we all forgetting about the 55 slot pairs that have to be returned to BA as part of the Bmed deal.

Believe we are hanging on to those for the moment, BA didn't want them back at the moment. Once they have back they must fly them or lose them and now is not the time to do that. Rumour is that we will be operating the new LH services to MXP and TXL, what colour will the aicraft be?, who knows.

[mmeteesside]

Appears you are correct!

Heathrow to Durham Tees, Leeds both chopped completely, as well as previously announced Jersey. Amsterdam and Dublin are reduced in frequency and Aberdeen and Brussels transferred to regional. Apparently allows them to cut 4 Airbuses to cover charter work plus leasing 2 (whether they're part of the 4 or not I'm not sure?) to LH to work new Heathrow-Berlin and Milan routes! Info from FT article FT.com / Companies / UK companies - BMI cuts routes amid rising costs (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32724a1e-fdf7-11dd-932e-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1)

[RhysD]

FT.com / Companies / UK companies - BMI cuts routes amid rising costs (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32724a1e-fdf7-11dd-932e-000077b07658.html)

According to FT.com:

Heathrow to Leeds and Teesside to be axed
Heathrow to Dublin to be reduced by one daily flight
Heathrow to Amsterdam to be reduced by three daily flights
Heathrow to Aberdeen to continue to be services by Embraers
Heathrow to Brussels to be served by Embraers
Four A32S to take on charter work
Two A32S to be leased (incl. flight and cabin crew) to Lufthansa for new routes from Heathrow to Berlin and Milan MalpensaSeems that many Ppruners have been right on the culling of domestic routes and also the emergence of several european reductions. Not sure what to make of the last point with Lufthansa having acquired extra A319s to operate from Malpensa.

[ajamieson]

Rumour is that we will be operating the new LH services to MXP and TXL who knows.
I'm equally puzzled. What is the benefit of wetleasing to a carrier that is not only its deepest codeshare partner but also shortly to be its 100% owner? If bmi has the slots, the aircraft and the crew then why can't bmi operate TXL etc? Strikes me as a pointless complication, and potentially more costly given the need to base in Milan.

Good luck to you all whatever happens...

[Flightrider]

If bmi has been making big losses as reported, the wet-lease is probably a mechanism for its shareholders to avoid putting in huge levels of cash to maintain its financial fitness. New routes at bmi's own risk would need the cash injection; but a guaranteed wet-lease contract with secure income would not. Either way, the money still appears but it's paid slowly over time under the wet-lease rather than in one big lump if bmi flew the new routes in its own right.

[RevMan2]

If bmi has the slots, the aircraft and the crew then why can't bmi operate TXL

Because bmi doesn't have a positive (if any) brand image in those markets.

Simple as that.

[ajamieson]

Flightrider thank you. If RevMan2 is right then I'm puzzled why bmi serves HAJ, NAP, VCE and LIN until last year seemingly without the same brand image problem (I do understand the stupendous losses, though!) If that is the thinking then it all points to the eradication of the bmi brand under LH rather than the strengthening of it. Shame, but that's business I suppose. I don't think Max Angle ever liked the colours anyway ;)

[virginblue]

TXL is a direct replacement of Lufthansa's LCY-TXL service, so Lufthansa probably wants to keep its product in the market.

MXP is part of Lufthansa Italia's massive build up in Italy, centered around the new MXP hub. It certainly does not make sense to dilute a recently established brand ("Lufthansa Italia") by adding bmi services. The target is mainly traffic originating in Italy, whereas bmi's brand recognition is restricted to the UK end.

Anyone done the maths by now? If I have mine right, 13 slot pairs are freed up by the reductions, whereas 10 are needed for MXP/TXL/KBP. Where does the balance go to?

[ajamieson]

To add into your calculation we already have Kiev and the extra rotation to TLV, but there's also the scrapping of JER.

[virginblue]

My calculation is (leaving out such details as LH itself is freeing up some slots as well, e.g. by reducing LHR-DUS by one rotation)

-4 LBA
-2 JER
-3 MME
-3 AMS
-1 DUB

-13 in total


+6 MXP
+3 TXL
+1 KBP
+1 TLV

+11 in total

Anything missing?

[RevMan2]

I'm puzzled why bmi serves HAJ, NAP, VCE and LIN until last year seemingly without the same brand image problem

Because they were established in those markets.

Starting up a new operation is a capital-, manpower- and time-intensive venture and it takes time until your product achieves market acceptance.

bmi has neither time nor capital and it's a no-brainer for a brand leader to use bmi equipment to operate into established markets.

[LKMflyboy]

Why have the route cuts been announced on ft.com, when we have no official memo or press release from the company, yet? Plus all the routes are still bookable on the website.

Any thoughts?

[ajamieson]

Confirmed, sadly, from March 28.

The website is a shocker, so no surprise at all that you can still book :}

[woofly31]

Does the switch of the Brussels service to Regional require using the Aircraft not required for the LBA,MME or Jersey services? How many 145's will now be based at Heathrow for the future operations?

[MUFC_fan]

Surely it will cost them a fortune to use EMJs on LHR routes with the price of slots?! CO were paying stupid prices for the slots at LHR and BD are putting EMJs on similar, if not more appealing slots!

Amazing...

[RevMan2]

Flightrider's right on the money with this one

Not really - if you look at the operating costs on a sector like that, a high degree of the costs are fixed. Heathrow landing charge, nav fees and parking for 45 minutes for an Embraer 145 is £787 and for an Airbus A319, £858. If you assume an average fare of £75 on those routes, it means you've got to carry 10 passengers on an Embraer just to pay the Heathrow charges which is 20% of your capacity gone before you can pay any other bills. For an A319, it's 11 pax per flight to pay the landing fees but this only equates to 6% of your available seats.

Information about route changes now ticker-taping on the website, LBA services no longer bookable past Mar 28

[mutualswap]

Why have the route cuts been announced on ft.com, when we have no official memo or press release from the company, yet? Plus all the routes are still bookable on the website.

Any thoughts?


wasnt an official press release this info was leaked!!:ugh:

5 Embraers in LHR for summer

MUFC worst post of the week :=

[virginblue]

Surely it will cost them a fortune to use EMJs on LHR routes with the price of slots?!

Why? They already own these slots. You could asrgue that they could make better use of them, but otherwise they do not cost them a penny.

[rutankrd]

Actually Hanover is operated for Lufthansa.

Naples was operated for a limited period during the good times when the city folk had their cash bonuses to burn on expensive Tuscan Villas.
With the £-€ rate currently so poor and combined with economic recession demand has collapsed.
Milan –Linate, Paris, Madrid and Swiss Cities were part of the BMI failed strategy of head on competition with BA and the LCCs and all now gone.

Currently only Venice and Palma survive as primarily leisure routes out of LHR and come the autumn I expect these to go too. They add little to the LH/*A alliance.

These may well be replaced by Minsk and Lening… oh sorry St Petersburg for instance

Venice and indeed Naples and several other Italian Cities can be reached via Munich on partner group companies Lufthansa /Air Dolimiti.and soon via the new Milan –MXP LH.it services.

Palma surely is best left the LCC and Leisure airlines such as Monarch/Easy operating out of other London terminals and the slot pairs used for something else more profitably.

The clear vision for bmi (LH,uk) is to be a medium-haul specialist carrier serving Eastern edges of Europe (Moscow/Kiev), Central Asia (Oil and Gas traffic) and Middle East all complementing LH’s own operations in these regions.
Many of these services should be timed to make good connections with Air Canada TALC services (especially for the gas/oil traffic) and to a lesser extent United over Chicago/ Washington Dullas hubs. Beyond this any other *A connections are best served over FRA/MUC hubs and even the CDN/US- Central Asia traffic could just as well go via FRA/MUC if truth be told.

The remaining Heathrow short haulers are primarily domestic feeder flights to GLA/EDI/Aberdeen/MAN plus Dublin Amsterdam and Brussels and these each have merits for their own continuance (Subject to some frequency adjustments)
GLA/EDI/MAN and Dublin provide important feed for bmi’s own services and partner *A operator connections for UAL/ACA/ANZ/SAA/ANA particularly plus Singapore and Thai to a lesser extent.

Amsterdam also feeds into these *A services however many of the services can be just as easily reached over FRA/MUC.
There is however some residual Oil/Gas traffic to attract particularly Anglo-Dutch companies.

Brussels well they now code-share with fellow LH subsidiary SN .SN presence in the BRU-LON market is now just two flights Sun-Fri and one on a Sat morning into Gatwick!

Finally I expect bmi to take over a few of the marginal UK-German routes such as Cologne (Previously operated for LH from STN!), and either Stuttgart or Hamburg from CLH/DLH in addition to the TXL service. These may well utilise bmi--Regional aircraft and free up DLH aircraft for redeployment and/or withdrawal (Particularly of the dedicated Cologne B735 unit)

[Skipness One Echo]

Milan –Linate, Paris, Madrid and Swiss Cities were part of the BMI failed strategy of head on competition with BA and the LCCs and all now gone.

In fairness the world has changed a lot since this strategy was "British Midland - The Airline for Europe" and BA adapted better due to it's greater size and network. BMI cut service and costs and was squeezed by BA on one side and the LCCs on the other.
I can't imagine the choice on LHR-ABZ will be around for long as an ERJ145 versus a full size ( and busy ) Airbus is a no brainer IMHO.

[iwhak]

What is the reliability like on the EMBs now, I heard they were having some problems with them?

[rutankrd]

Skipness.

Don't disagree wth you and that this was a Bishop vision for sure. When bmi were operating as a true standalone business.

I just point out for so many people and especially some of our friends across the pond that bmi are no competition for BA and given their very limited short haul connections we are getting further and further away from LHR being a viable *A hub -Frankly the European Hub for *A is FRA/MUC henceforth.
*LHR will be a *A focus and O&D destination (with minimal domestic UK feed)

I understand your comment re the jungle-jets to Aberdeen however they may want to retain the route if only for Royal Dutch Shell traffic.

[Skipness One Echo]

I'm booked LHR-MME in April so phoned their Indian call centre yesterday and they denied the route was being cancelled. Phoned back today and they still denied it, was I confused with Leeds he asked?
I suggested that the nice man check the front page of his own airlines web site....

I was then given a second number to call where another nice Indian man clained that I wasn't booked to Teesside but Durham Valley. He then said yes my flight WAS cancelled but he would give no advice on rebooking as the "reaccomodation" policy wasn't due for another week!

Needless to say it's back to BA, I've given BMI a few chances and each time they've let me down. What a joke!

[MUFC_fan]

That obviously due to them not knowning England geographically and have obviously not done their back ground on the airline but if I was being payed what they are for what qualifications they have I wouldn't either.

I'm guessing most people will be offered a refund or MAN?

[Mr Flaps]

The bmi website confirms that LBA and MME stop at the end of March.

[flybar]

Official email notification to mailing list just arrived in my inbox.

[LKMflyboy]

I'm guessing the regional flight deck currently based at MME will return to their original bases, or more likely be sent to ABZ to crew the extra aircraft doing the Birmingham route...

But what will become of the mainline cabin crew still based at MME?

[A300BOY]

Very sad news for all concerned at Leeds. From a personal perspective it makes it more difficult to get home to Leeds now as so many times the only easy way of getting back to Leeds was via Heathrow and Bmi to Leeds , I hope all staff will be intergrated in the new arrangements but I have to say my affiliations with Bmi and services operated by them will have to be reviewed now.

[Flightrider]

The statement on the bmi website is appalling. It looks like it has been cobbled together in five minutes because the news has leaked before they were ready to announce it. The fact that the services were still on sale today even after the FT had printed details of them stopping is also extremely poor. bmi's handling of this has, I'm afraid, done nothing to change my view that this is a company whose management is seriously lacking.

[Skipness One Echo]

The company is a joke. Can't rebook my cancelled Teesside flights until next week as the Indian call centre hasn't recieved the "re-accomodation" package.

Useless for business are BMI.

Also if anyone at BMI reads this FIX THE DROP DOWN LIST OF DESTINATIONS in the booking engine. They're in pseudo-alphabetic order based on IATA code, so YOU'RE LOSING BUSINESS as people don't find their intended destination where it ought to be.

Washington is under I for IAD and Teesside is under M for MME and not D for Durham Tees-Valley. It beggars belief that such stupidity can stand in any business. It's booking 1-01. Incredible incompetence in making it really hard for people to find where the Hell you fly on your own website.

[K.Whyjelly]

But what will become of the mainline cabin crew still based at MME?

Re-basing at LHR or P45 is my guess

[airhumberside]

Actually Hanover is operated for Lufthansa
Albeit not as a wetlease but as a normal bmi flight with an LH codeshare

[ajamieson]

Skipness One Echo the drop-down menu nonsense is only the start of the flaws with the bmi website. Many destinations are often unbookable because the drop-down menu has been updated incorrectly, it is often not possible to scroll down to select flights for purchase, the class of service option is never updated so buying a premium economy ticket on whichever route is the latest to be served by the A330 isn't possible...the list of sloppy errors goes on. All of this drives business back to the TAs...or other airlines.

[Mr Flaps]

You can book a prem econ ticket now on the CAI and TLV. The drop down menu is up to date.

bmi management is under pressure from LH to cut costs and make the airline profitable again. The loss of the Leeds and Durham is a blow to those regional airports and the old bmi route network. But with poor marketing for its domestic services and changing the times to keep slots warm, bmi made the route fail themselves.

But if bmi did not have its mid haul operation the airline would either have been round up or be on the brink of it. The midhaul busniess customer is being focused on. Because they are helping keep the airline going.

When BA says it is burning £2.7 million A DAY. The airlines in the USA are lossing billions. No one is safe at the mo. I wonder about LH and how much they are spending.

[speedtouch]

LH is making solid returns on the vast majority of their routes and despite higher than anticipated falls in cargo, that is also still making money.....Don't lose too much sleep over losses at LH - bmi on the other hand, I understand to be losing shedloads - even though the pax numbers are better than they have been.

I tend to agree with many of the above statements though. If LH don't do something soon, it will be painful. [Maybe that is what they are waiting for!]

Many people are brushing off CV's for jobs both in and out of aviation.

ST

[North Stand Tier3]

NT currently on 'Working Lunch' BBC2 - he looks knackered.......

You ain't seen me, right..........

[thewhites]

NT looked rough as ar:mad:eholes on Working Lunch maybe he`s had a few sleepless nights, but not as many as most of his employees at MAN-MME-LBA.

Had to laugh when he tried to plug the chefs...........8 years to late:D

[EBU42]

Have booked to travel with BMI for LYS-MAN and then back in early April. Looking on their website, the winter timetable ends 28th March and no summer timetable has been put up yet. I would expect the new timetable up sooner than 2 weeks before it becomes valid. Also, I noticed today's flight from LYS-MAN was cancelled. Given these two factors, should I have any concerns, or try to get a contingency plan in place just in case. Cheers

[lexxity]

If it were to be cancelled bmi would have to reacommodate you or give you your money back.

[davidjohnson6]

Looking on their website, the winter timetable ends 28th March and no summer timetable has been put up yet. I would expect the new timetable up sooner than 2 weeks before it becomes valid.

Assuming you are referring to the PDF timetable, I would not be at all concerned - most airlines do not post the new PDF on their website until after the old one has expired. Further, plenty of airlines post the PDF timetable well after the validity has begun.

If you want to check whether a flight is expected to go ahead, try making a dummy booking for it on the airline website

[stormin norman]

The news that BMI lost just under £100M last year on turnover of £1.1Billion seems to have made little news on this forum.With £45m of savings planned for this year it looks like NT is moving the company from intensive care back into the resus unit.

[4567]

Not long before Lufthansa has control, what plans will they implament to turn BMI around you think? My biggest guess is Bmibaby is going not sure about regional though.

[ALLMCC]

I read a newspaper article a few days ago that said that Lufthansa don't want Baby. They will either try to find a buyer (which will be difficult in the current economic climate) or close it. The article, however, didn't mention Regional.

[brian_dromey]

Baby is, apparently, the only section of the business currently keeping to budget.

My other thought is that BD (and all other airlines) can't keep cutting forever, they need to aggressively grow revenue, by whatever means. If that means leveraging their position in LHR and using more *A feed, then thats what they need to do. Hopefully the operations on behalf of LH are going to be cash positive, that would give them a bit of breathing space.

Brian.

[Copenhagen]

They used to say that Baby was profitable.

Then they said Baby was covering its operational costs

Now they say that baby is hitting its budget

Hitting budget... it may be loosing £20m, but its hitting budget. :D

I really fear for the future of baby. Just like snowflake from Sas, Go from British airways, Ted from United, Song from Delta, low cost off shoots dont work long term.

[ryanair1]

totally agree with you on that score 'Copenhagen'.

Low cost off-shoots dont carry the same passion, the same drive, the same growth ambitions as independant low cost airlines.

its a pretty pathetic state of affairs to be a low cost off-shoot as you get stale employees used to the same ol same ol way of doing things, no innovation and too much conservatism.

Take it from someone who used to know!

[Flightrider]

When 40% of the £100m loss has come from bmibaby, it's a pretty poor state of affairs if they can only say that they are "on budget". The budget must be grim reading. It's not surprising that Lufthansa want to offload it ASAP.

It remains to be seen whether NT is still at the helm after the Lufthansa take-over goes through.

[OliWW]

If any airline is going to buy baby then it will be Flybe or easyJet. Ryanair wont buy baby because its business model is wrong compared to theres, and they can just take over the routes that baby used to have, without having to buy them out. Where as Flybe could buy baby and replace its B737 with E195 or easyJet can expand with A319, for example if baby were to leave us, EMA-EDI,GLA,BFS,AMS,CDG will all be unavailable and Flybe or easyJet would also be best suited for this job

[Copenhagen]

Why would anyone buy baby? -If, as flightrider states above that they have lost £40m WW have at best less than a half dozen sustainably profitable routes accross the network.

It would be better for Flybe, Easy, Monarch, Ryanair or Lingus to just start operating these routes rather than buy a selection of leased classic 737s and legacy staff.

Baby isnt an Aer Lingus acquistion for Ryanair, BAciti for Flybe or a Go acquisition for Easy. They have / had significant benefits to the acquiring company in terms of scale and in terms of disposing of a major competitor in a major area of operations (dublin, midlands and london).

Baby delivers neither to either.

[bmi expat]

When 40% of the £100m loss has come from bmibaby

I would love to see a source for that claim!

[Facelookbovvered]

40%? not what i am told by the regional guys, baby trading on target so far this year, regional and meduim routes doing ok with the big loss coming from LHR where bmi volumes have fallen off a cliff, i counted just 7 pax plus me on an Airbus to BRU last week no wonder the ERJ135 is doing the route from the end of the month.

Clearly it can't continue and not paying the staff (increase) won't be enough. I read that the 330 are going back to the lease company before the year is out, no doubt the long haul aircraft that LH are taking out of service will find a new home in LHR.

Whilst the crews have concerns over their jobs i bet the CEO has even more, the NBM (NEW BUSINESS MODEL) was his idea, also know as Nigel's big mistake.

[Topslide6]

When 40% of the £100m loss has come from bmibaby, it's a pretty poor state of affairs if they can only say that they are "on budget". The budget must be grim reading. It's not surprising that Lufthansa want to offload it ASAP.

With respect, that is completely untrue and unsubstantiated bull****. Baby is ticking along just nicely, despite what those with an agenda would like you to believe.

[ZeBedie]

Baby is ticking along just nicely, despite what those with an agenda would like you to believe.

What, nasty little ****es who've started painting 'bye bye baby' on their -800's?

[Topslide6]

I like to think more desperate and scraping the barrell. After all, in the worst economic dowturn since the 30's, baby is not the airline that got 6 brand new aircraft delivered last month. You don't have to be an economic expert to work out that can't be a good thing. Anyway, 'they' did the 'bye bye baby' thing a long time ago as a rather pathetic response to baby binning Teeside as a base.

They're welcome to it!

[INKJET]

Just the usual childish antic's from publicity hungry MOL, any truth that he's is ill with the big C?::eek:

[Flightrider]

With respect, that is completely untrue and unsubstantiated bull****.

The figures are accurate. bmibaby's contribution to the group £100m loss is £40m this year, give or take a million either way. I am not going to give a source for the numbers, but suffice to say that if you had seen the numbers yourself, you wouldn't be arguing about them because you'd know that these figures are true.

[FlyboyUK]

Well according to this memo baby must be doing something in the right direction

The fuel increase was mitigated somewhat by surcharges as well as a rise of additional revenue in bmibaby...

[Topslide6]

Look, I don't know who you are or what your agenda is Flightrider, but given that these financial figures have not even been published yet leads me to believe you're are talking out your arse. 99.9% of bmi staff never actually find out about the true financial performance of the group as, having being a private company, it's never had to be published. The notion that you are in the 0.1% that has not only seen the figures, but seen the figures for the last year (that have not yet been publically published) and have then chosen to come and write about it on here is, frankly, nonsense.

As an aside to that, and as Flyboy has already pointed out, NT's memo paints a different picture of baby's contribution to the group.

You've stated in one of your earlier posts that you don't work for bmi which just makes this kind of thing even more pathetic. This gleeful speculation about the future of various airlines is getting very boring indeed. Either state the source for your so called 'facts' or shut up.

[ryanair1]

can we stop talking about these crappy airlines thanks

Ryanair has no interest in them - they will go bust themselves

anyway - we are stopping all flying from Dublin to Doncaster and Durham Tees Valley from July

and reducing East Midlands and Bournemouth frequencies along with others to europe from Dublin due to this stupid tax - which is basically slashing numbers to Ireland.

[Unionjet28]

Usual FR rubbish. Blame the tax, blame the IAA, blame the DAA, blame bloody anyone except your own inability to stimulate demand in a recession.

Call it like it is for once eh?

[PC767]

I'm just an observer here but can I ask ryanair1 why he/she feels it is necessary to enter a site dedicated to BMI and ask people to stop talking about 'crappy airlines'?

If you don't want to discuss BMI/BMIBaby then why are you on a BMI thread?

You're forum name provides a clue to your alligence. Stick to the Ryanair thread where, in my opinion, there is actually talk about a 'crappy airline' taking place.

[Skipness One Echo]

can we stop talking about these crappy airlines thanks
Ryanair has no interest in them - they will go bust themselves

1) It's NOT the Ryanair thread so you seem a little confused as to your location. One hopes you're not flight deck crew then.
2) I struggle to accept the truth of your claim as you say you live in an "expensive mansion" but work for Ruinair.

Back to BMI Baby please!

[Flightrider]

Topslide6, if you have checked previous postings then I think you will see that I've normally been well ahead on matters relating to bmi. Strong hints of MME/LBA being chopped, A330s moving to Heathrow for Cairo and Tel Aviv all appeared here from me before they happened. You might not like what I've got to say, but it is very redolent of this country at large that you try to silence someone just because you don't like their message.

I stick by what I've said and if bmi management won't tell people where they really stand - i.e. whether their employer has a future or not - that's to their detriment and not mine.

[speedy688]

To quote NT in his last employee newsletter:

"The after tax loss for the year was £99.7m, which compares with a modest post tax profit of £7m for the prior year."

"Fuel cost us significantly more year on year despite our hedging policy and BAA continued blindly to apply double digit percentage increases at Heathrow aided by poor regulation by the CAA. The fuel increase was mitigated somewhat by surcharges as well as a rise of additional revenue in bmibaby, but still cost us an extra £60m, whilst the Heathrow increases accounted for extra costs in the year of £12m."

"bmi regional achieved once again the accolade of being the most punctual UK airline for the fourth consecutive year, and bmibaby made great strides in identifying and collecting additional revenue streams from our passengers."

* Fuel increases = £60m
* Heathrow = £12m
* "additional revenue in bmibaby"
* "bmibaby made great strides in identifying and collecting additional revenue streams from our passengers"

Flightrider - shut the f*ck up!

[11K-AVML]

Erm, just to point out that Revenue isn't profit.

I could sell £10 notes for £5 a time - I'm sure my revenue would increase significantly, but I'd still be loosing money.

"bmibaby made great strides in identifying and collecting additional revenue streams from our passengers"

What would these be - I'm not familiar with WW, but have they implemented new charges - increased booking fees or onboard services e.g. pre-booked car parking or public transport tickets? (out of geniune interest not trying to have a snipe)

[super737]

my god, did baby find another way to fleece the punters? Yes they found other ways to make money but was it at the detriment to other ancillary revenue streams or the core focus?

So £99.7 million loss and people are being told to f@*ck off because NT says all is good in the hood? BD are turning into BACON, no focus, no profit and a miss matched product and a common fleet with different cabins and the older British Midland Airways staff leaving and the new minimum wage chavs doing the business desk!

BD are the unwanted and unsuccessful love child of a poor relationship and now the sugar daddy, the civilian luftwaffle regret their decision?

[davidjohnson6]

the civilian luftwaffle regret their decision

Don't mention the war - you're not Basil Fawlty ! :oh:

[Deep and fast]

The Lufty deal will have gone through the regulators within 5 weeks and it will be a done deal.
Then the Germans will do what they do best and turn Bmi into a vibrant profitable organisation. Just have to get a few senior management away first.

D and F

[EI-BUD]

I have just learned that Dublin/Heathrow with bmi will be cut from 7 to 6 a day from the summer. And Amsterdam/Heathrow will also be cut.

Does anyone know what is the story with Belfast City/Heathrow, is there anything to suggest frequency will be cut there. I would have thought the Dublin route was performing as well as the Belfast city one yet it is being cut??

EI-BUD

[Count von Altibar]

Belfast route performs much better than DUB-LHR for bmi. It was in fact one of their most profitable routes although has taken a hit in recent times like most other routes. It will maintain it's frequency but I hear Dublin is so much more competitive and hence less slices of the pie to go around.

[stormin norman]

One of BMI majors problem is that they still have to endure operating out of T1 at LHR.
BMI is no longer as punctual as BA and businessmen will continue to move to T5.The airline will continue to suffer until the next new terminal is built.

Could someone enlighten us on how NT can get his £45m PA savings without a major directional change for the airline ?

Speaking to a LHR manager recently, he had no clue as to what was going on (and neither did his Boss !)

[nivsy]

Its odd really I guess how people have different perceptions of things. As a SLF I have actually utilised BD services more since they have taken a greater hold on operations out of Terminal 1 (especially for London/Scotland sectors.)

I have found T1 less crowded (and I dont think it's just because of the recession) - parking off airport but close to T1 easier, ease of access using connect or express services good, (unlike T5) and the Midland gates quite airy and clean...also their aircraft somewhat nicer than the last BA A319 I was on the other week flying up to EDI which was very shabby inside I must say - (kind of surprised me).

I hope they continue at T1!

Nivsy

[bmi goldenboy]

Second SLF here who is also quite happy with BD thanks very much. I moved away from BA to BD 2 years ago and the thought of moving back has never occured to me. T1 is fine, I never wait more than 10 mins in security and the star alliance lounge is also great, connecting to UA & NZ is easy and even transferring to T3 isn't that bad. BD's new lounge opens in a couple of months and this will improve things even more. I fly BD metal from GLA to LHR, MAN, LBA once or twice a week and very rarely suffer any delays. Their staff are generally a credit to them, polite, courteous, non robotic and happy to help. Maybe I'm just incredibly lucky not to have experienced the BD being expressed above, or on the otherhand maybe some of the comments above are not actually by folks who actually travel with them as a paying customer?

Last point:- Referring to Lufthansa as Luftwaffa, its pretty offensive and I'm surprised that the mods allow it to go unchecked.

[aeroDellboy]

I find T1 OK, but getting into it is a pain. I am SLF and used bmi regularly from Teesside, then they messed around with the flight times making it inconvenient, now they have closed the route. Also closed Leeds, the next nearest airport. Can't see me using them anymore, LHR is not convenient to get to from the North East, so it's a boost to KLM and Amsterdam and National Express.

Worst thing bmi did was abolish business class, that was the beginning of the end as far as I can see.

Best wishes to all the Teesside crew who were always professional and friendly.

[TCX69]

G-DBCA & G-DBCC will be the dedicated A/C operating the LH Italia flights. 'CA is off to EMA tmrw for a repaint & will be operating the MXP flights. Looks like 'CC will be operating TXL in bmi colours.

[brian_dromey]

Oh, so the MXP flights are going to be operated as "LH Italia" in full LH colors then? Thats interesting, I didn't know that was going to be the case.

Brian.

[Endeavour]

I believe that both aircraft (G-DBCA & G-DBCB as of last week) will be remaining in their bmi livery.

CA is going into the hangar for work prior to the LH wet leaase, but not for a repaint.

MXP and TXL start Sunday 29th March, just a week away.

[OliWW]

Im guessing with LH painting some of BDs aircraft the deal has been completed?

[TCX69]

Slightly off topic but anyone know why A330 G-WWBD is in VIE? Was ferried there from LHR on the 15th & is not due back into LHR until the 28th. MX I'm guessing?

[jedigtr]

G-WWBD is on check at VIE

[Endeavour]

OliWW

The deal hasn't been completed, but two A319s are being 'wet leased' to LH to operate from Heathrow to TXL and MXP from the summer 2009 timetable. The aircraft operating for LH will be in bmi livery and flown by bmi pilots and cc.

TCX69

All three bmi A330s have been to VIE for 'C-6 checks' in the last six weeks.
first G-WWBM, then G-WWBB and finally G-WWBD.

[perkin]

Evening! Anyone know if the status quo with cancellations on the MAN-LHR shuttles with BD will continue? I'm making the assumption aircraft are being shifted to more profitable charter operations as flights are often cancelled days or weeks in advance - still not terribly useful when I keep getting re-booked onto flights which shorten my weekends!

Will use BA if the situation with BD is set to continue, so any info would be most useful - BD staff either don't know what the issue is or are unwilling to openly divulge.