BMI

[Copenhagen]

Rumours that WW will also drop their Cork services at the end of the summer schedule owing to lower yields from increased competition.

[brian_dromey]

Is this just the BHX services or the MAN as well? BHX now sees daily competition from EI to BHX and FR to EMA.

Brian.

[OltonPete]

The CAA stats show that the route had a bad time last winter but EI
are no longer daily. 5 a week now and 6 next winter, I was hoping Baby
would carry on at around 4-5 a week for next winter.

If Cork was bad, BHX - Knock is fast catching it up for falling pax,
another one which might see reduced service or the chop completely.

Pete

[Charlie Roy]

Rumours that WW will also drop their Cork services at the end of the summer schedule owing to lower yields from increased competition.

BMI Baby fly, and/or have flown, from Cork to Birmingham, Manchester, Durham Tees Valley, East Midlands, Gatwick and Cardiff*.
(Have I forgotten any?)
And BMI used to do Cork - Leeds Bradford.

It would be a desperate shame to see BMI (Baby) completely withdraw from Cork. And moreover it wouldn't be very good for competition or airfares either :(

[brian_dromey]

I suspect the drop off in BHX-ORK numbers might partially be because of the FR presence to EMA, although that only happened quite recently, IIRC.

It would be sad to see WW pull completely out of ORK, as mentioned, but the flights are operated by aircraft from different bases, so just because BHX goes would not necessarily mean the MAN would, or vice-versa.

I use ORK-MAN regularly, as does my uncle. We both agree that WW are the pits for timekeeping and know how to charge. Loads have tended to be very high on my flights with them, usually in the 80% range, often 100% full. Now if EI can make WW scurry away with only a 4x weekly service (to be 5x for winter) and fares which are not bargains I would be very worried for WW. FR and U2 are going to absolutely eat them alive.

Brian.

[roy2711]

chalk it up to low fares high fuel and not enough pax to share around:ugh:
All airlines are now seriously looking at flights and dropping what used to make a profit pre usd127 a barrell fuel prices (look at AA man-ord)
Things are not pretty:{

[Mod Kit]

Nothing more here than we already know - rumour and conjecture. Article in Aviation Interactive

Lufthansa is still on track to equal or better its 2007 results, CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber told reporters in London yesterday.

Though he conceded that the market would weaken going forward, Mayrhuber expressed confidence that Lufthansa’s bottom line wouldn’t suffer, adding that bookings remained strong. The airline is targeting a seven per cent growth in capacity this summer.

A strong hedging position has allowed the company a measure of stability in the face of high fuel prices, with 85 per cent of Lufthansa’s fuel requirement hedged this year. A strong home base in Germany, a country with a multi-tiered, multi-industry economy, is also vital to the airline’s success, the CEO said.

One cause of concern for Mayrhuber was the number of failing airlines still in business. He pointed out that carriers with negative balance sheets could still access aircraft through leasing companies. I asked him whether he thought the proliferation of leasing companies was damaging the industry long term. “They [leasing companies] are a good instrument as long as they are not the only instrument,” he replied.
On consolidation in the US, Mayrhuber agreed that certain airlines could draw benefits from mergers, but pointed out that there was little sense in joining businesses if synergies weren’t sought out and realised. He added that Lufthansa hadn’t been contacted by any US major with regard to a tie-up.

In Europe, Lufthansa is expected to buy Michael Bishop’s stake in bmi (50 per cent plus one share). They will be able to do so from December 20, though Mayrhuber wouldn’t be drawn on whether it was a done deal. All signals, however, indicated that it was.

Control of bmi would grant Lufthansa access to its lucrative slots at Heathrow, an airport Mayrhuber was “not happy” with. He reiterated calls for Star Alliance carriers to have their own terminal at the hub by 2012.

He was also unhappy with the focus of media attention in recent times. He said investment in the Lufthansa’s Frankfurt hub was a “no-brainer”, yet reports largely ignore the delays in favour of obsessing over setbacks to massively complex aircraft programmes. “Even the Romans knew how to pour concrete,” he added wryly.

Asked about Lufthansa’s interest in Austrian Airlines – which recently lost a major potential investor – or Belgium’s SN Brussels, Mayrhuber repeated his mantra: “We are not in the business of buying airlines.” For good measure he told reporters that Lufthansa had “never put in a bid” for Austrian, which, for its part, had never approached Lufthansa. With regard to SN Brussels, he believed it would be a “useful addition” to Star Alliance.

Much more likely seemed a merger between Germanwings and TUI’s charter and no-frills business. Mayrhuber said this would create a “very strong” low-cost carrier that would operate purely under the Germanwings brand.

[Charlie Roy]

http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0523/bmi.htmlPre-tax profits were down 47.8% on 2006 to £15.5m

Why always so much dooming and glooming on here about BMI.
The guys are still making a profit. So can't complain really in my opinion.
It's normal that their profits should be falling with the current economic conditions (fuel prices etc.).
But a profit is a profit is a profit :cool:

[airhumberside]

Also BMed integration has affected the profits

[INKJET]

as a private company (not a PLC) they get much more latitude as to what they need to show and how much tax (not to pay) seem to have good cash balances as well, no doubt they have charged all the Bmed intergration cost into year one (why wouldn't you)?

Still be around next year i suspect

[SinBin]

Swiss is owned by Lufthansa, operates as Swiss, why wouldn't bmi. Even if SMB cashes in I think bmi will be here for the long term.

[Copenhagen]

The Bmi profit is thanks to a deal signed by SAS and Lufthansa in 2000 that has propped BD up for seven years by providing hundreds of millions to BD over that time. Without this BD would be highly loss making.

The Bmi profit is also thanks to asset sales.


In Bmi's case A profit isnt a profit isnt a profit.

[RAPC]

Copenhagen: Got any proof / links to substantiate this out of interest?

[Copenhagen]

Copenhagen: Got any proof / links to substantiate this out of interest?

Naturally

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/25/theairlineindustry

Bmi is also under pressure from the expiry last year of the European Cooperation Agreement, which pools the profits and losses from bmi's short-haul business with SAS and Lufthansa's UK flights. According to ABN, bmi's underlying business will be loss-making without the contribution of the ECA.


http://www.atwonline.com/channels/airlineFocus/article.html?articleID=2286

As SAS gets further into 2008, one thing it won't miss is the expiration at the end of 2007 of the eight-year European Cooperation Arrangement among itself, Lufthansa and bmi under which LH and SAS agreed to subsidize bmi for its financial losses. Last year the agreement cost SEK652 million, up from SEK415 million in 2006. "If you ask me for the business rationale behind this kind of arrangement I must be honest, I cannot see it,"

652 Million Swedish Kroner = £55m Sterling.

For further information on the Deal -see

http://books.google.de/books?id=lY1xFcp9mgIC&pg=PA256&dq=SAS+BMI+European+Cooperation+Agreement&sig=0NcqyUp96bSP3PF-2E3U4IJNDuY

Enough Proof? :ugh:

[Facelookbovvered]

The deal was designed to stop British Midland (as it was then) expanding into both SAS & Luftansa home markets, at that time BM was seen as having a lower cost base and able to both undercut both carriers and provide a far better service in diamond class.

They got into bed with BM to protect their home markets, however since Easyjet and to a lesser extent Ryanair it doesn't make much sense.

The really interesting thing in bmi 2007 accounts is the rolling in of £770m in slot valuation in respect of the slots that it holds at LHR, this move could depending on the terms of the various put/call change the figures for both SAS & LF

bmi have of course been aware of end of the ECA for years and project blue sky was implemented to address the end of this.

The ABN came up with some very fancy ideas as to what would happen in 2008/2009 including LH buying the SIA 49% stake in Virgin and merging it with bmi, the only problem is that whilst 49% will get you seats at the board table the other 51% still call the shots and in bmi that means SMB who is sole owner of the other 51%.

Expect the unexpected where bmi are concerned

[Mr Flaps]

An interesting time for all at bmi. Turner could be playing the game that the show must go on regardless what SMB and LH are up to.
The fall in profits does not come as a surprise with the way the industry has been performing and the former BMED routes joining bmi mainline. More bums on seats on these routes would be great but, some of the destinations don’t shout holiday or even business. Pax up by 1% and 17 new routes hmmm that has me thinking all these new routes and only a 1% in pax figures. Where are they falling down?

The financial results maybe be seen on the flybmi website in the press-center.

As for the feature ownership of bmi, SMB will most likely sell out to LH. What LH decides to do with it from there is any ones guess. Keep it like Swiss with the same brand name and everything or sell it on to someone else. The likely hood of nothing happening is very slim. VS seem to be having some money worries with all in flight beauty cut and other people saying that may be able to afford bmi in its current state. As for BA I think WW can look on and wish, yes BA has the money to buy bmi but will competition rights allow such a dominant airline over LHR slots. If BA took over bmi it’s the end of the bmi brand.
Overall bmi are the wild cards at the mo.

[BerksFlyer]

Mr Flaps,

Why is it that if BA bought bmi, the competition commission wouldn't allow it yet BA would only have 52% of slots. I don't know the figures, but at FRA LH have way over 50% of slots, and that's allowed. :confused:

[747-436]

I wouldn't be very surprised if BA put in a bid for BMI. I know the competition people, and SRB would moan about BA having 52% of the slots but then as has been pointed out other airlines at other airports have a similar percentage of slots.
Even if BA could buy BMI and have to relinquish half of the slots from BMI I am sure they would do it.

[RAPC]

Thanks Copenhagen. I wasn't questioning your opinion, just wanted to read more on it to form an opinion.

[ryan2000]

BMI Baby's flts from MAN and BHX to ORK both diverted to SNN tonight. Does anyone know why WW has never carried out a CAT 2 approach there since it began opertions to ORK in 2002. They are the only scheduled airline operating to Cork that has never availed of this facility.

[brian_dromey]

Maybe they are lacking in get-home-itis? Only assumption that can be made is that the crew/aircraft combination is not certified, or company rules prohibit CATII at ORK - I cant think why though!

Honestly, the slightest hit of cloud and WW get skittish. Its ridiculous. At least twice on flights I've been on we have been told there is a good chance of ending up in SNN. Weather conditions at the time have been quite good, even RE getting in.

I'll put it like this, if I needed to be somewhere important at a certain time, I don't think I'd book WW. Too unreliable. Shame really, because almost all of the crews are really quite nice.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

The Bmi profit is thanks to a deal signed by SAS and Lufthansa in 2000 that has propped BD up for seven years by providing hundreds of millions to BD over that time. Without this BD would be highly loss making.


It's all down to the Star Alliance - or nicknamed 'STAALIENS are coming':D

[Brushtype4]

Ryan, I think you will find Cork Cat II RW17 is a problem for baby for a number of reasons. Operationally, baby treat a Cat II the same as a Cat III and autoland but to Cat II minima. They have found the 73 Classic doesn't like the combination of the undulating terrain in the undershoot of 17 and then the initial slope of the runway resulting in the aircraft landing half way down the runway.

They trialled disconnecting the autopilot at DH but as it's already trimmed significantly nose up [dual channel] the results in the sim weren't pretty.

From recollection there is an additional limitation [AFM] on UK registered Classics that prevents descent below 200ft AAL without visual reference combined with an unltimate min disconnect height of 140ft so a single channel approach wasn't going to work either [below 200ft] IFR.

All in all the airline chose not to pursue different SOPs for one runway in it's route network [as the alternative was considered unsafe] and has to accept the commercial disadvantage to other operators with different types or working to diifferent regulations in this one case.

As for the majority of its destinations it's quite happily a Cat III operator [50ft/200m] in BHX/EMA/MAN/GLA/EDI/BFS[25]/CDG/AMS etc etc.

Hope that explains?

[en2r]

They have found the 73 Classic doesn't like the combination of the undulating terrain in the undershoot of 17 and then the initial slope of the runway resulting in the aircraft landing half way down the runway
Jet2 have 737s of a similiar vintage and they never have to divert to Shannon, and they're subject to the same regulatory rules as Baby. Centralwings which operated to Cork until recently also have 737s of the same vintage and again they never had to divert to Shannon. I find it so strange that Baby have to divert on occasions when planes from all other airlines can land fine, including Aer Arann with their much smaller ATR72s.

[clearskyahead51]

On June 27th bmi published a press release stating:

Under an agreement reached by the two governments (Saudi/UK), the number of weekly frequencies permitted between the two countries has been increased to 35. bmi intends to take full advantage of the opportunity this provides and will seek to add to its existing services from Heathrow to Riyadh, Jeddah and Dammam.

bmi has only 3 A330, 2 in MAN and 1 in LHR dedicated to Saudi routes. Are they planning to move an aircraft from MAN to LHR? Or maybe use one of the B757? Any idea anyone?

[teamax]

A321, A320.

[daninLTN]

Baku perhaps

[airhumberside]

The airline route news blog shows 4xFreetown and 3xAlmaty/Bishkek for the B757 this winter - i.e. just one aircraft. Not sure were that leaves Uralsk. Could it be done on an Airbus?

[6chimes]

There are two 757's operating out of LHR and they are they here for at least two years.

The rumours here suggest Tehran.

6

[Copenhagen]

The Scandinavian Airlines quarterly earnings report outlines significant profitability issues at Bmi.

The share of income in affiliated companies amounted to
MSEK -143 (49). This decline is primarily attributable to the
negative earnings in British Midland. Air Greenland and
Estonian Air also reported weaker earnings compared with the
year-earlier period.

143m SEK = €15m loss

http://feed.ne.cision.com/wpyfs/00/00/00/00/00/0C/F3/9B/wkr0003.pdf

[pointless username]

No, the decline in SAS profitability is primarily due to SK having c**p management, and also buying Spanair didn't help. The increase in the value of the bmi slots at LHR will have actually boosted the SAS bottom line, if they are kept on the balance sheet.

[CaptJ]

The share of income in affiliated companies amounted to
MSEK -143 (49). This decline is primarily attributable to the
negative earnings in British Midland

Is that not clear enough? It does not say that the decline in profitability of SK is due to British Midland.
It says "The share of income from affiliated companies <snip> is primarily attributable to the negative earnings in British Midland"
Could not be clearer.

Slot values are not revenue. Even if we accept that slot values should appear on an airlines balance sheet (and many airlines do not agree with this), it might be worth bearing in mind that slot values have only gone down lately and likely to drop further.

[point5]

bmi Heathrow Ops having a bit of a re-shuffle in the next few months. More Embraers, more A330 flights and A320/1s to be released onto charter flights.

[brian_dromey]

So fewer Caribbean/US flights out of MAN so, I guess? Also heard that all LBA-LHR flights are to be operated by ERJs this winter.

Personally I thought the 3 ex Silver Jet 762s (and two BY ones) which should be available would be perfect for the middle east and DME ex LHR. They could have retained 50J lie-flat seats from the SJ config and had about 100 Y seats.

It might have allowed for all the 332s to be MAN based, possibly the displaced 320/321s going to WW at MAN (as per rumors on the WW thread), allowing the MAN based 737s to be moved to CWL or BHX.

Brian.

[toledoashley]

This could mean the end of baby (maybe just at Manchester). Mainline fleet semi-moving to MAN to cover EMB's moving south. Reduction in domestic - maybe introduction of something like Moscow or Tel Aviv with 320's. One 330 (from ORD? rotation - leaving Caribbean) to move to LHR for Middle East routes.

[ajamieson]

Is that not clear enough? It does not say that the decline in profitability of SK is due to British Midland. It says "The share of income from affiliated companies <snip> is primarily attributable to the negative earnings in British Midland" Could not be clearer.
Yes, but you and Copenhagen have misinterpreted what it says. The negative earnings are over the longer term (i.e. a bad investment decision by SK). Bmi made an operating profit last year, regardless of slots.

Obviously it will struggle to make a profit this summer, as will almost every airline - but that is nothing to do with the SK investment issue.

[Flightrider]

Major schedule changes coming up for MME, LBA and JER to LHR and all of them will be operated by Embraers this winter. Jersey going onto a 135 with no morning JER-LHR flight is a particular sign that this route must be struggling.

Rumours for Summer 2009 that the MAN-LAS/Caribbean routes will be pulled and one A330 moved to Heathrow to cover some of the longer flying from there.

[toledoashley]

I think a complete shutdown of 330 MAN operations is odds on. Now bmi has the slots and a business plan which works @ LHR there is no need for them at MAN.

[pwalhx]

I sthere just me appalled by the comment because they now has the slots and a businness plan that works at LHr they dont need to ooperate the flights from manchester.

Are we to assume you think manchester shouldnt have the flights it has then?

[Skipness One Echo]

The same airframe will make more money from Heathrow alas. It's a no brainer.

[Railgun]

I am sure the air frames would possibly make more at LHR, but who are BMI outside of the UK? Was it DEL they tried and soon gave up on out of there?

[Muizenberg]

BOM was the Indian route BMI tried out of LHR. This is turning into another thread very similar to the BA trhead when they announced they were pulling off MAN-JFK. If BMI can make more with the 330's at LHR good for them. It maybe key to their survival in the current market.

At the end of the day the routes ex MAN are primarily leisure routes; if they can get high yield business class pasengers from LHR to the back of beyond, they'd be stupid to kick a gift horse in the mouth.

In a ideal world where 3-4 330's could appear out of thin air, think both MAN and LHR would be good business options and not putting all one's eggs in one basket.

Until there are a enough people in the MAN catchment area prepared to spend £3-5,000 return for a business class seat on a longhaul route, that can achieve a high load factor, longhaul from MAN is impractical in the current economic climate.

[comet 4b623PW]

While not disputing the fact that BMI's A330's could generate a greater revenue from LHR and there fore a potentially more profit, there are also other issues to take into consideration. There is far more competition at LHR than MAN, the more operators on a given route is surely going to reduce the amount of money it can make.
If it chooses to launch a route to a new destination with a airframe taken from MAN then it needs to be sure that it can make money on the route in a shorter period of time as possible. Added to which if it does not replace the Manchester based airframe then it has to fore go the revenue it generates and presumably that routes contributions to it's overall profits.
While not just a BMI issue higher yield front end services surely need to be offered from Manchester, if they are not then how are you going to grow the up take of both first and business class.
I seem to remember BMI announced a intention to ordered some five A330's in July 2007 what has happened to this order are they delayed or cancelled.

[roy2711]

bmi to ord contributed almost 10mill to bmi's profit margin last year
and whilst the las and car routes are not doing fantastic!, for bmi to start a new route ex lhr at this moment in time would be crazy!!!!
new route costs usually est at around 2mill so that would be an immed loss to bmi and then you will have the aircraft flying around empty for a good few months (even ex lhr). If bmi were to take one of the 330's back down to lhr the only place i could see it flying would be to Saudi.
Trust me i cant see it happening till at least oct09, if at all !

[Ringwayman]

Funny how some people don't want to remember how the BOM route went. Perhaps that's why some refer to it as a "no brainer"? Pretty sure I read that the A330 are being spruced up in J class due customer demand (apparently demanded by passengers that MAN doesn't have?!)

[Skipness One Echo]

bmi to ord contributed almost 10mill to bmi's profit margin last year

You have internal access to confidential route yield info? I'm impressed ( and disbelieving ! ) Anyhoo I take your point that Mumbai was a poor performer. However, aircraft for aircraft, yield for yield, Heathrow wins hands down alas.

[mickyman]

BMI didnt go head-long into Transatlantic from Heathrow at the time
all the new Americans started up - for a reason - not because they
couldnt source frames!
After looking at the American ops from Heathrow in the past six months, to gauge the profitability of possibly starting some routes,
they may have realised that routes elsewhere may need looking at?
The slots they hold at Heathrow are not going anywhere.
Or maybe the puppet master has pulled a string or two.........

MM

[roy2711]

:ugh:Everyone is going on about all the slots bmi have!
Have you all forgotten the 55 slot pairs that have to be handed back to BA as part of the BMed deal.
Some routes will have to go first before any can be added.....

[BAladdy]

I have heard from a mate in planning at BA that they are thinking of leasing the slots to BD for winter 08/09 and possibly summer09 until new aircraft come into the BA fleets or until the fuel price drops and the economy picks up.

[SELF SERVICE C/IN]

Rumours Of A Big Announcement On Monday?? Follow On From Announcement Last Week Of Termination Of Two Midhaul Routes For Winter - Ankara And Ekatinberg. Most Probally With Reference To Either Regional Or Mainline Routes!! Any one any goss???

[OliWW]

Well its been said that bmibaby are to release there summer routes within the next few weeks, and that was a notice about 1/2 weeks ago, so maybe they are releasing some of WW summer routes

[mmeteesside]

Must be an upgrade for one of the E135 routes as one is to be used from LHR this winter (doing Jersey and probably others).

[Mr Flaps]

baby summer 09 is already on sale. There has been noise of new routes to the Middel East.

[EI-BUD]

Bmi will have to hand over 50+ slot pairs to BA as part of the Bmed deal. So in effect, Bmi got access to the Bmed markets at the expense 50+ slot pairs from other routes. BA got into a franchise deal with Bmed because the markets that Bmed served were recognised by BA as volatile (eg Beirut, political situation in some others etc) and difficult to make money on. So is it going to be any different for Bmi?

So what routes are going? And to maintain this level of service on the Bmed routes quite a few will have to go. I suspect that LBA, MME and in the future JER will all get the axe?

[OliWW]

On Babys website it says summer 09 flights coming soon, and only bookable until Mar 09, Where abouts have you seen that there flights for the summer are out?

[keepitlit]

BUD,

your close but no cigar!:=

regards

K.I.L.

[GLAMM]

Def something happening announcement wise.........today. Hope all is well!?! :hmm:

[roy2711]

Hi ei-bud
you are quite right, around 50 plus slots to go back to BA
However they were slots which belonged to B-med/BA so no add loss to BD
Yes, some routes may have to be reduced when these go back to BA but at mo it does not look like BA want them as we have not had any real cutbacks in regards to the LHR op
With regards to whether bmi can make money on these markets when b-med could not, take away the gbp15 mill plus franchise and handling cost that b-med paid to BA and profits are not as difficult to come by
The announcemount today was about some reduction in capacity ex LBA MME and JER, they will now become erj bases and as such there will be a small number of redundancies:sad:

[GLAMM]

Another announcement is that there are to be redundancies in ground staff managerial positions at Glasgow base. Cost cutting here, anywhere else?

[sealink]

oh yes...... bhd and lhr !!!!

[SELF SERVICE C/IN]

Yeah, Bmi Ground Staff Still In Shock In Bhd!! Twelve Supervisory And Duty Management Staff To Apply For 4 Newely Created 'customer Service Delivery Managers'. I Fear The Most Loyal Staff Who Have 100 Years Service Between Them With British Midland/bmi Will Find It Hard To Compete With Their Affected Collegues For The Above Positions!

[EI-BUD]

So whats the news about Bmi at BHD? I didnt hear anything about that? Are there flights being cut or aircraft sizes reduced?

BUD

[SELF SERVICE C/IN]

Flight Schedules Not Affected, Apprarently Too Profitable Base To Reduce Timetable. Airbus A319/a320 To Operate Rotations. Redunances Result Of Restructuring On Base Middle Management Across The Network.

[keepitlit]

I am very sorry to receive this info as there are alot good people who have worked for a long time, i wouldnt like to be the one who makes the choice


Its called trimming the fat before the sell off!!!!

as I said bud watch this space ya you zeee

regards

Keepitlit

[point5]

Apparently DLH to announce take over of bmi today :eek:

[Nubboy]

Or would that be DHL? or BA? Or VS? Or SQ?
There's so many stories doing the rounds I'm loosing track:ok:

[ninjaconnie]

Where's your info from Point 5? We've heard nothing at BMA.
tHE cONNIE

[6chimes]

As always in hard times companies use the moment to gain further ground on their long term plans that may have met with resistance in better times.

It seems much more likely that bmi are using this time to downsize areas of manpower that would be 'doubled' with a merging/buying company whilst reducing costs now.

Just keeping the lights on til a buyer comes along.

6

[7373]

Sorry to see XL go under and my sympathies to all who worked for them or were travelling with them. I wish them all well.

It would appear that XL had 4 x A330s on order.

I wonder whether BMI have given consideration to them. Unlike the previous A330s that BMI were supposed to have been getting, perhaps if they got in earlier enough they could tailor the order with Airbus to reflect the requirements to fit in with their current 330 fleet?

Not only that, I would have thought a good price could be achieved from the administrators/lessors given that the administrator/lessors need to generate some cashflow on these airframes. With BMI currently overcrewed and yet wetleasing rotations to Astraeus, this could be quite lucrative expansion to the midhaul/longhaul route network and the markets that have been rumoured for quite some time, especially as far as freight is concerned.

Food for thought.....

[Mr Flaps]

I cant see bmi buying new planes or used airframes at the moment. Not with the current news that has been told to bmi staff.

bmi has to weather the storm or wait for SMB to sell it to cash rich buyer. Which seems to be LH at the moment. Or he may not sell and take his train set down a very rock road. In which lots of money and business traffic and new cash streams seem to be key.

Lets say this, if SAS sell's out to LH.
Then will LH take on the 20% share in bmi.

Time will tell.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

point5

Apparently DLH to announce take over of bmi today

Let's hope your vectoring is more accurate than your rumour-mongering :cool:

a**e

[br8fmr]

Gulf carrier Etihad circles BMI (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4748590.ece)

Senior sources in the Gulf say Etihad, the national carrier of the United Arab Emirates, has approached both BMI and Lufthansa, the German airline that holds a stake in BMI

[heli_port]

AN airline backed by the royal family of Abu Dhabi, the Gulf state that recently bought Manchester City football club, has held initial discussions about a merger with BMI British Midland in a deal that could value the airline at up to £600m.

Gulf carrier Etihad circles BMI - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4748590.ece)

:ok:

[SinBin]

Good old fashioned press speculation methinks. Maybe they want to join Star Alliance!

[Jet Fuel Addict]

Maybe not such a bad thing as long as Sir MB keeps his promise of any take over being in the interrest of bmi staff first.

[Mr Flaps]

Shall we just make a list of ever major world airline. Then at least one will be right when the time comes. I do laugh when I see that another airline has gone public to say that they want bmi.

Well so far LH, BA, VS, now Etihad. Oh and DHL. Anyone else got any more then can add.

[brian_dromey]

EI were, apparently, looking at acquiring BD if open Skies did not go through.

[Carnage Matey!]

Lufthansa have first dibs on bmi anyway.

[Little Blue]

Lets have Eastern Airways putting in a bid....or, maybe, Palmair fancy throwing their hat into the ring....:ugh:

[lexxity]

I hardly think EI are in any position for takeovers right now.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/343161-ei-trouble-but-just-how-bad.html

[airvanman]

...and call it Manchester City Airways! That would p*ss on United's fireworks!;)

[Gary Lager]

bmi keeping promises? bmi doing anything that puts staff interests first? This I have to see...

[clipstone1]

remembering that Etihad would have to ensure bmi has at least a 51% EU shareolding of course otherwise they are in trouble! so a partical merger and leaving LH with some of the shares would work....and mean Etihad might join star alliance...

[andrewmcharlton]

oh look, fancy that, you've posted yet another slant on the same story today, is that four or five times so far?

Why not just add it to the thread for the respective airline instead of more verbiage.

[Dash-7 lover]

Etihad could by SAS's share as they want shot of it!

[Dash-7 lover]

If SAS want shot of their BMI stake then anything could be up for grabs - maybe Etihad are interested???

[OliWW]

In our local evening telegraph I read that a "Middle Eastern Airline" is looking at buying a share of bmi"

EY most likely!!

[Danny_R]

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/343132-gulf-carrier-etihad-circles-bmi.html

Topic about it running there

[EGAC is Better]

Guys,

I am a pretty regular traveller so my obervations below are based on personal experience and ACARS logs.

My question to anyone who may be in the know is, does BMI have any sort of consistant fleet utilisation policy on the route LHR/BHD?

I ask because both last Friday and yesterday when travelling on the BD96 the aircraft (A319's CJ & CH) were all one class seating with no cabin divide or jacket hanging space for business passengers.

At the same time A320's DO, DY and DT were at Heathrow and were used on other domestic routes. Yesterday evening DY went to ABZ and DO/DT/DY are regulars on the Manchester run. ABZ and MAN are all economy services whereas BHD as sold as 2 class. I therefore wonder why BMI can find it acceptible to send Mid-haul config aircraft (with 49" business seats) on single class internal flights when at the same time 2 class internal flights are being served with single class aircraft. Belfast business class customers are getting a raw deal from BMI.

If they don't stop with this nonsense I can see a lot more of their customers moving to the green machine, especially if they are able to introduce an early morning flight.

Steve

[LGWcrew]

Because bmi are only interested in operating the short haul flights to keep the slots. They are not worried about loosing passengers as they dont really make money on short haul. All that matters is that it all looks good on paper.

[keepitlit]

Firstly CrewLGW,
Obviously not bmi crew, maybe an X employee!!

EGAC is Better, to answer your question in one No, but please let me explain, As with most operations there is a plan but sometimes when things go pear shaped aircraft get out of program ( its either tech issues or delays throghout the day) and back-up aircraft is called out to keep the show on the road and on time. The 144 config hopefully wont be round for too much longer as it dosnt fit the two class business model.
I sorry you got one of 144's as a business pax its not palnned that way, Ive operated MIDO on the BHD/LHR( you wanna see those seats!) again this was due to an aircraft delays, Im not defending what happened but Im sure you would be rather be as close to on time rather than have the delayed bigger seat which is what we try to do.

Oh and they do care about domestic routes as they will feed the Longhaul



Hope this helps

Regards

Keepitlit

P.S. Isnt "the green machine" one class?

Keepitlit

[EGAC is Better]

Thank you for the response Keepitlit.

I have flown in MIDO from LHR to BHD and those seats are one of the reasons that prompted the question :ok:. I kinda figured that it was operational reasons more than anything else but recently there has been a bit of a pattern to the ops of the Mid-haul fleet within the UK which was the second reason for the question.

If truth be told after a weeks work, I am just grateful for a seat and an on time flight, a massive leather seat with expansive legroom would be a pleasent surprise.

What is to happen to the 144 config aircraft? Will they be converted to interchangeable configs like the older short haul A319's and A320's? The seats on CH and CJ were actually only bettered for comfort by those on MIDO which is ironic.

Aer Lingus do operate only economy but essentially on my last 2 flights so have BMI. I have yet to fly Aer Lingus but I have heard very positive reports about them and surely it is something BMI need to worry about. In that regard a better business class product may just help retain those loyal business flyers who perhaps live closer to Aldergrove than City but put in the extra miles for a Business Class service. I am equal distance from both.

I did wonder about LGWCrew's comment. BMI are bigger than just a domestic airline and surely rely on feeder traffic to Long/Mid and other short haul european destinations to keep them going.

Cheers
Steve

[inglebyboro]

Evening

Can anybode advise if BD 333 (MME-LHR) is operating on Fri?

I am booked on the flight, and was hoping to book Mrs IB on the same flight, but on the BMI website, only 331 & 339 are listed for Fri.

Is the flight fully booked, or has it been pulled?

Cheers
IB

[SinBin]

Why don't you be proactive and call customer services, I doubt PPRuNe is the place to ask!! This thread is about bmi as a company and not your wife's travel plans...:rolleyes:

[inglebyboro]

After being told a pack of lies by GSM customer service staff in the past about a flight being fully booked (that I was booked onto), when it had actually been cancelled a few days in advance, I try to avoid phoning the said department.

I thought some nice friendly bod from BMI why might be able to answer the question could help, instead of some tosser coming out with sarcastic comments.

BMI "as a company" are scheduled to operate BD 333 from MME - LHR tomorrow, and I am trying to find out if the flight will operate. If the flight is fully booked, then fair enough, but I AM booked onto this flight, and I am now concerned about MY travel plans, not my wife's.

Sorry for the rant, but I have 2 connecting flights after the BMI leg, and BD 339 will not get me to LHR in time for the 2nd flight.

[mutualswap]

BD333 will operate
capacity of a/c is 49 seats 49 booked

rgds ms;)

[inglebyboro]

MS

Many thanks, really appreciate the info.
I was worried for a bit.

Cheers again
IB

[SinBin]

Firstly, I'm not a 'tosser', secondly my comments weren't sarcastic. GSM is not bmi so why would they be the same?

[inglebyboro]

ok, you believe

[SinBin]

? Back on thread then. Anyone Know anything about the Etihad thing?

[Ametyst1]

BMI are dropping services from Heathrow to both Ankara and Ekaterinberg.

[SinBin]

Yeilds low, twice daily though to Moscow from the end of the month and daily direct to Damascus

[Saxon Ops]

http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1132023.php?news_cat=11

Paddy Power will be dramtically cutting bmi odds for the "the next airline to fail".

Get your bets in quick!

[DTVAirport]

I think the link is broken? I'm not getting anything about BD, just a page asking me to login or register?

[bmi expat]

Paddy Power will be dramtically cutting bmi odds for the "the next airline to fail".

Get your bets in quick!

What makes you think that the info in the article means that bmi will more likely be the next airline to fall????

[1033]

I think the reference may be due to their backgrounds. One of them may have trouble getting references for their airside passes from previous employers. ;)

[adz1616]

Once again we have idiots on here making allegations with no solid backup.

I suggest they spread their rumours elsewhere as they are not wanted here

[jerboy]

I suggest they spread their rumours elsewhere

Is this not a rumour network? hmmm...

bmi are hugely unlikely to go bankrupt, which is what I think the paddypower odds are. They have way too much money stored in the LHR slots, and more likely than not will be taken over. However people have been saying BD are going to be bought out for years... have any of them been right?

I'm guessing we'll see the bmi colours around for sometime yet; at least until the Bish retires.

[TartinTon]

Surely the BMI colours will only be around for another 18months - 2 years tops, as either SMB uses his option to sell to LH or LH use their option to buy BD (as they previously stated was their intention last year)?

[keepitlit]

He has to call is option by the end of the year.
Word on the street is Lufty are buying anyone where they could set up a hub.
Swiss, SN bru ,Sas scandi, bmi LHR, AI Milan.

Its going to be one massive outfit

Interesting times ahead

Regards

Keepitlit

[kirkbymoorside]

Lufthansa also apparently looking at Austrian too... Can they really take all these on and if not, where in the pecking order would BMi be? Quite high due to LHR presence??

[uklad007]

It will be interesting to see what their pecking order would be
you also have to look at the cost they need to pay to purchase these and then spend on these

Brussels = 65Milln now and with purchasing the other 55% its been reported the cost could reach 250 Milln

SAS = This is reported to be worth in the region of £750Miln at market value

BMI = This is reported to be worth some £800Miln (largely due to the cost of LHR slots - but i know they already own 30% and SAS 20%)

Alitalia = So valuations on this have ranged wildly between several hundred million up to Euro 1Bn. But they may only be allowed to bid for up to 20% and that will be of a combined Alitalia/airOne consortium airline (not sure how much Air one is worth) but say its around Euro150-200 miln

Austria = Govts stake up for sale is around 150miln euros

On top of the purchase price of these it would take considerable cost to turn around SAS (fleet renewal and Spanair fleet renewal and loss of confidence in airline), Alitalia - ok so only part of a consortium but fleet renewal desparately needed, and Austria operates a mix of old and new and could loose up to 90 miln euros in the next year.

So its a question of how deep Lufthys pockets are to keep buying up airlines.

Also in the not too distant future you have Olympic coming up for sale (ok prob not a lufthy target) and i believe the Czech govt want to privatise CSA also - which could be a good win for someone.

[Mr Flaps]

Taken from flybmi.com
London Heathrow’s second biggest carrier bmi, will double the number of flights to the Saudi Arabian capital Riyadh from 15 January 2009.
Services from Heathrow to Riyadh will increase from three services a week to six, provided a daily service with the exception of Friday. Return services from Riyadh to Heathrow will operate daily with the exception of Saturday. The Heathrow originating services will go onwards from Riyadh to Dammam on Monday, Wednesday and Saturday and onwards to Jeddah on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. The latter replacing the current three day a week non-stop service.
The increase in frequencies is possible thanks to an agreement reached by the UK and Saudi Arabian governments which permits extra services between the two countries.
Nigel Turner, chief executive officer of bmi, said: “We are determined to take full advantage of the headroom that the revised air services agreement has created so as to meet the growing demand we are experiencing. The doubling of frequencies to Riyadh will enable us to offer an extremely attractive schedule that will appeal to point to point traffic as well as creating a much wider range of connecting opportunities at Heathrow, particularly to and from the USA.
“Since services to the Kingdom were abandoned by British Airways two years ago and bmi willingly stepped in to safeguard this important direct link we have gained a firm foothold in the market. We have invested and continue to invest considerably in providing the best possible service both on the ground and in the air. The significant increase in services from January will further establish bmi as a major contributor to the economic growth and vibrancy of the region. We are proud to be a part of that growth.”
Scheduled times are to be announced shortly and flights will be operated by Airbus A330 aircraft in a two class configuration providing lie-flat beds to business customers.
ends.

[isw21]

isn't this a cut back??? not an expansion

[airhumberside]

Should be capacity neutral - still 6 a week to Saudi. More to Riyadh, Jeddah looses its non stop but remains 3xWeek while Dammam remains 3xWeek 1 stop as now

[Max Angle]

Typical bmi spin I'm afraid, make it sound like something fantastic but actually do nothing other than reshuffle the same old deck of cards. Still, on the bright side those Riyadh flights make a mint so it's got to be good for the bank balance.

[frontcheck]

How is this spin?
they are just adjusting to demand, nothing wrong with that.:hmm:

[pointless username]

Adjusting to demand? Tell that to the JED pax, who now have to route via RUH. When BA come back next year with their JED service we'll lose all those pax, and given that JED can be full how are they gonna manage to sell seats ex-RUH to LHR if the a/c is full ex JED?
Classic bmi, build up a good loyal customer base, then p!ss 'em off.

[PlaneMe]

Think you will find it will be earth shattering for some - closure of ALL long haul out of MAN being announced at the Hall on Friday 24th

[pointless username]

Absolute rubbish.

[LGWcrew]

guess we will know thursday

[INKJET]

Thats a rather bold statement (true or otherwise) from a first post, i think you owe it to other Pprunners to substantiate your post in view of your probationary status.

[CabinCrewe]

Why all the fuss on a "rumour" forum, Surely it doesnt come as a surprise to anyone. Im surprised its carried on for this length of time.....:uhoh:

[PlaneMe]

no rumour this time i'm afraid - i have a personal interest - wait for the announcement on Friday

[Skipness One Echo]

You joined pprune just to break this news? One assumes Part II of the announcement will be the redeployment of the two aircraft into Terrible One at LHR and onwards to Saudi and ?

[morton]

Wasn’t that always part of the plan – moving the A330’s to LHR once ‘Open Skies’ had been sorted? Maybe they consider the LHR – Middle East links more profitable than the MAN – Stateside/Caribbean links. Or maybe even anticipating the recession and reduced pax loads to/from the USA as the recession starts to bite. “Absolute rubbish” is too dismissive a statement as, with only three A/C to play with, the move does have merit.

[PlaneMe]

actually i joined to see if anyone else had any info. I'm assuming that part of the announcement will be the aircraft going to LHR. Some i have spoken to believe it is part of a clean-up exercise in readiness for the long expected sell off - more likely to lufty.

I guess you get a number of cranks with unsubstantiated rumours on this forum so i wont post anymore until after the announcement on Friday but will monitor to see if anyone else has any more info.

[INKJET]

Thank you

I would not be surprised, in fact i thought it would have happened by now. The Chicago has always done well, but the Caribbean & Vegas whilst busy have never done well up front(staff apart!!)

Tim Bye confirms on ATW online that Mid Haul is doing well and says "the two things they got right this year was not going to the US (from LHR) and not ordering the 5 A330 for which they had board approval" so i guess if Friday is the day it will be more mid haul

[FLAPS 10-100]

Any ideas? LH ?

[Jet Fuel Addict]

LH would be good. But anything which results in recruitment starting soon would be good news in my eyes. Let's hope so :ok:

[747-436]

Maybe that they are second best in something else?!?!??!

Seeing as they are liking to advertise the fact they are second favourite at the moment, lets go tell everyone we are second in something instead of advertsing something that we are best at!!!!!

[Fly747]

Why wait until Friday, read it now.
ATW Daily News (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=14423)

[lamina]

Yeeeees, maybe they're adding taste to the crew food.:D or just reducing the liquid content would be good:)

[speedtouch]

I agree with the above, however, not so much more mid-haul but a change of mid haul. Now SVX and ESB have gone, plus the spare 320s ATW refers to [due Emb at LHR], capacity is available. I suspect though it will be within the normal range of the 320 [as opposed to tech stopping] as the two sector strategy did not work that well for BMED and by all accounts is not brilliant for BMI. It does serve a purpose on some routes but is not ideal by any means. I quite fancy the Russian market myself..............St. Petersberg maybe, DME is doing well. I hope they are hedging the fuel now though before OPEC cuts capacity! Sorry thread creep there. Who knows, not I...... :confused:

[North Stand Tier3]

ATW press piece is mostly re-hashed from the last company announcement re capacity reduction

Only two 'big' options that spring to mind are (a) 330s out of MAN or (b) zee Germans are a-coming - both discussed at great length on umpteen threads. Other options/opinions would be interesting. Guess we'll just have to wait til Friday when the fuellers/caterers/baggage handlers tell us

Right, I'll get me coat...............

[speedtouch]

My money is on: "a)" see above . Not that a certain betting web-site lets you do that any more!

[Skipness One Echo]

The other BMI thread has a source saying that the two MAN based A330s are LHR bound.

[6chimes]

So who knows what now?

330's move to LHR and operate mid haul routes where the competition has better a/c?

Wet/damp lease Chicago, bye bye Caribbean.

Surely the credit crunch will hit the L/H leisure routes out of MAN so better to move them to where they will sell lots of seats.

6

[A300Man]

Middle East tie-up with Etihad Airways?

[max nightstop]

And the big announcement is.......................................................... ............................................................ ........................................







...............dramatic pause.....


















.........................Cancelled.

Phew, thought one of bmi's managers had actually made a decision there for a moment.

[autobrake3]

Glad to see your management are as good as ours. Reckon they're all the same at the end of the day.

[Lostinspace]

Perhaps Virgin involved

[mutualswap]

wont be any new routes thats for sure
starting a new route in the current climate would be commercial suicide:(

[groundhogbhx]

Code share with Brussels Airlines maybe??

[no sponsor]

Didn't someone say that Friday is the day for bad news, and some other day of the week is for good news (Wednesday), or did I get that the wrong way round?

[whatbolt]

Not quite , my Mum used to say "never start anything on a Friday, its unlucky". And what the hell its the start of the w/e so it can wait till monday.

[captplaystation]

After previous "big announcements" by Virgin Atlantic and Easy Jet turned out to be wet farts I find myself overcome with. . . . . . . . total apathy actually, can't see much excuse for an alternative mind set. :cool:

[OzzieO]

I know what it is.......they are pulling there longhaul operation out of MAN and moving it all down to LHR. Thought it was general knowledge.

Cabin crews will be doing a mixture of long and shorthaul ex LHR.

[Jet Fuel Addict]

Come to think of it, who announces that there will be a big announcement pending? Is it an announcement or is it a rumour? Maybe announcing a big announcement is a big announcement by itself. There must be a lot of preparation behind the scenes before anyone can announce a big announcement. Also care must be taken that no-one will leak information about the announcement, or the announcement will be discarded as a rumour.

Bloody hell, there's a lot to think about here... :}

[stormin norman]

Maybe with 1 Billion in one bank, virgin (source RB) are just about to make a bank transfer to MB ?

[SinBin]

:} Virgin? Don't think so!!!

[wobble2plank]

I always though bad news came from corporates on a Friday.

That way the managers can run and hide over the weekend whilst the workers face the flak!

After a few weekend G @ T's they can come back with a whole new raft of shiny excuses!

Good news on Wednesdays means they can gloat and calculate their bonuses before the Saturday round of Golf.

Maybe, just maybe. :ugh:


Anyways, most likely to be 'nasty' quarterly figures and a projection for the future.

[brakedwell]

My wife thinks washing sheets on Friday brings bad luck! :eek::eek::eek:

[Doodles]

Maybe with 1 Billion in one bank, virgin (source RB) are just about to make a bank transfer to MB ?

Don't forget that what may be in the bank will not be available to spend - you have to be aware of their liabilities too!

[brakedwell]

Don't forget a lot of that money in the bank comes from prepaid tickets!

[mccdatabase]

An "Insider" tells me that all the unions have been called in to a meeting at the hall on Friday after which an announcement will be made to the press, if this involves all employee groups it may be something more significant than just moving the 330s to Heathrow :eek: Hopefully it will have a positive spin !

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Job losses.

You know thats the case when the unions are brought in.

[Re-Heat]

The mega-merger to create "b-mi easyVirgin" - an airline long on salacious talk, but short on action.

[Dash-7 lover]

Trust me as an ex BA Connect/Citiexpress employee - bad news is always on a Friday so everyone can panic over the weekend!!

[frankie123]

I don't know who your "insider" is, but it was never all unions summoned to the meeting at Donington Hall - only unions connected with Manchester.

You can all draw your own conclusions from that, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that it was bad news!:{

[SinBin]

It's a very lean company anyway, so job losses will be minimal. Operationally the slots have to be flown out of LHR, and they have to get rid of the 757s and Embraers before redundancies in operational circles would occur from the mainline fleet. So I'm told.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

An "Insider" tells me that all the unions have been called in to a meeting at the hall on Friday after which an announcement will be made to the press, if this involves all employee groups it may be something more significant than just moving the 330s to Heathrow Hopefully it will have a positive spin !

So that's this coming Friday...?

I don't know who your "insider" is, but it was never all unions summoned to the meeting at Donington Hall - only unions connected with Manchester.

You can all draw your own conclusions from that, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that it was bad news!

...and that sounds like a reference to a Friday past...?

Are you both on the same hymn sheet, or am I misinterpreting something? :confused:

[OzzieO]

I've told you what it is now stop with the speculation!

[sevenforeseven]

Yawn.yawn. here we go again.:(

[sc77]

I have heard that union meeting has beeen canx. but theres still some announcement re man on fri
:sad:

[Mr Flaps]

Oh selling bmi again, now lets see. Who have bmi been sold to in the last few yrs, BA, Virgin, LH, Etihad and the latest is the sell off of ground handling to Menzies. Thats the latest one rolling around LHR at the mo.
Oh i think FedEx might have been in the mix to and some point.
Getting a little sick and tired of so called earth shattering news that never happens.
So time to get back to the coal face and carry on.

[Mr Flaps]

Oh selling bmi again, now lets see. Who have bmi been sold to in the last few yrs, BA, Virgin, LH, Etihad and the latest is the sell off of ground handling to Menzies. Thats the latest one rolling around LHR at the mo.
Oh i think FedEx might have been in the mix to and some point.
Getting a little sick and tired of so called earth shattering news that never happens. Bit like being promised a cut in petrol tax never happens. All spin and no balls.
So time to get back to the coal face and carry on.

[roy2711]

Oh i do like this rumour network:ugh:
So meeting now cxxld and still noone knows what is to happen except everyone who thinks they know!!!!
In the meanwhile lets just be thankful we still have jobs unlike lots of our other colleagues who have been laid off recently:(

[Facelookbovvered]

At least it keeps Globespam off page 1

??????????????

[BHDflyer]

Major news to be announced tomorrow!

Logonair are interested in buying bmi and want to operate an A330 between Papa Westray and Orkney 8 times a day

[davidjohnson6]

If the Japanese want (or maybe wanted) to fly a 747 on domestic routes in Japan, who's to say that an A330 one can't fly an A330 on domestic routes in the UK ? Tokyo or Papa Westray - they're both airports, right ? :}

The LCCs found that if you gave the market enough of a stimulation, demand would appear. Maybe Loganair have decided to follow this approach ? ;)

[Skipness One Echo]

Logonair are interested in buying bmi

But only if you book online. BOOM BOOM.
I'll get me coat....

[EI-BUD]

This is the most interesting speculation for ages on here, however, the last big announcement that got me interested was the 'big' meeting that a certain poster raved about at Easyjet in easyland and it was nothing at all!

Is there an bmibaby implication re Manchester, apparently bmiregional is doing well compared to the other divisions so one would wonder if it related to Manchester maybe news on WW outfit?

[Torquelink]

presumably bmibaby can't be sold - only put up for adoption?

:D

[rubberduck]

BBc news quote ;

"Some of Europe's biggest airlines fared slightly better. British Airways saw traffic fall by 5.1%, while Germany's Lufthansa saw its increase by 4.2%.

By far the best performing airline was the UK-based BMI, which saw traffic increase by 22.8%. " !!!!!:rolleyes:

can someone tell me where they got the bmi figure from....?

[SinBin]

If the yeilds are low for the MAN trans atlantic long haul operation, then it makes sense to get out of there and get into a higher yeild operation. Kuwait City and Lahore have been banded around for a few months, there's a huge potential market for Pakistan. IKA needs to be on a 330 too. An A321 is not suitable for that route, certainly not when I've done it. Apparently MB is has put in place a 10 year plan for bmi, at the last senior management conference whatever this means.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Just as a side note, Fares on the MAN-ORD in economy have gone to over £1000 one way. Thats an indication the route is going to be canned, it puts people off booking it whilst not actually stating 'the route is pulled'

Might give an indication of the news

[thewhites]

Fares are still around £400 for ORD just checked random dates.

There are lots of people on this thread with location LONDON, who are willing the MAN base to close, thanks for that.:=

No doubt most of these people wont stick around for long even if LHR gets the A/C.

Just remember without MAN there would be no BMI longhaul!!!!!

There are lots of peoples jobs at stake, REMEMBER THAT.:mad:

[thepeacock]

"BBc news quote ;

"Some of Europe's biggest airlines fared slightly better. British Airways saw traffic fall by 5.1%, while Germany's Lufthansa saw its increase by 4.2%.

By far the best performing airline was the UK-based BMI, which saw traffic increase by 22.8%. " !!!!!:rolleyes:

can someone tell me where they got the bmi figure from....? "

BBC is right but have quoted pax figures which are up due to adding BMED, what they doidn't say is that September LF is down 6%
Look here (http://tinyurl.com/6khuaq)

[NutLoose]

How is your Arabic?

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Fares are still around £400 for ORD just checked random dates.

There are lots of people on this thread with location LONDON, who are willing the MAN base to close, thanks for that.:=

No doubt most of these people wont stick around for long even if LHR gets the A/C.

Just remember without MAN there would be no BMI longhaul!!!!!

There are lots of peoples jobs at stake, REMEMBER THAT.


My profile may say london but I now live in manchester and am an avid supporter for its expansion of services.

Please do not assume I want the base to close, far from it. I actually wish bmi would see they are onto a good thing at manchester and hope that they dont re-locate the A330's to Heathrow

:confused:

[thewhites]

Thats fine virgin_cc_wannabe however there are alot of people within the compant that want and have always wanted MAN to fail.

There are some very senior and loyal people at MAN who will be tossed away without a second glance if and when this happens.:(

[SimonS]

Adjusting to demand? Tell that to the JED pax, who now have to route via RUH. When BA come back next year with their JED service we'll lose all those pax, and given that JED can be full how are they gonna manage to sell seats ex-RUH to LHR if the a/c is full ex JED?
Classic bmi, build up a good loyal customer base, then p!ss 'em off.Exactly. 6 months ago comments in the press and magazines suggesting they would be going daily (or more) to all 3 destinations. For people living in Jeddah it's a downgrade and in reality there are no improvements or extra flights to Saudi.

Just means the a/c get a bit more use rather than sitting on the ground in Jeddah for 5 hours (that's enough to fit in the extra legs).

Most people here have already figured that with a stop in RUH it makes sense to go via Dubai where EK has much better connections to UK (my UK home is about 30 mins from Gatwick).

[Skipness One Echo]

As a business they have no choice but to go where they can make the most money out of the assets they have. To suggest otherwise is naivety in the extreme. Manchester only got the A330s at the last minute when Plan A to fly them from LHR was blocked.
It's not about loyalty, it's about survival. Harsh, cold, uncomfortable, but unavoidable alas.

[INKJET]

I guess with oil at its (much) lower price, then MAN long haul becomes profitable again, just a shame they killed most of babys new routes in the "we're all doomed" mode a month or so ago. Still Ryanair will pick up the routes that baby leave PRG,WAW,MAD, LIS to name a few.

[Skipness One Echo]

then MAN long haul becomes profitable again

Perhaps it always was, I think the real harsh truth is that flying rich Saudis is more proitable than loyal Mancs.

[bmi expat]

just a shame they killed most of babys new routes in the "we're all doomed" mode a month or so ago. Still Ryanair will pick up the routes that baby leave PRG,WAW,MAD, LIS to name a few.

...errr, bmibaby have not dropped PRG, never flew to WAW from MAN and MAD and LIS were only ever going to be Summer routes, that is why they are back on sale for end of March next year. bmibaby have not been in a "we're all doomed" mode at all, neither have bmi????

[frankie123]

bmi management lost any interest in Man longhaul a long time ago!:ugh:

Manchester has a large catchment area of people who just don't want to fly out of LHR & all the hassle that goes with it. The long haul flights out of Manchester are busy most of the time - If bmi can get bums on seats ...... & they can! - maybe the simple answer was that they were not charging enough!!

Unfortunately, although the "BIG" announcement was cancelled for tomorrow, I'm sure it will be made sooner or later & the result will be the same .............. The end of long haul out of Man & the loss of a lot of jobs. Very sad.:(

[Skipness One Echo]

Frankie it's pprune answer 1-01.
Tis not about load factor, it's about yield up front. The aircraft will yield more carting people round LHR mid haul than MAN long haul. Shame it's almost been announced in the same week MAN lose BA long haul too. That's a clue.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

But from what I understand, these 'rich' saudis are using their wealth and political standing to obtain 'complimentary' tickets.
Granted its filling the front cabin, but at what cost.

MAN-ORD is bmi's single most profitable service (on one flight code with one rotation a day, granted one or 2 LHR destinations may have more profit, but work on multiple rotations per day), with high load factors. To cut it would be senseless, but then again, most of BD's decisions are!

[Max Angle]

I suspect it may be even worse than just pulling MAN long haul, I wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 330's go back to the leasing company marking the end of any ambitions bmi had to be a long haul airline. Certainly the revised Saudi schedules don't require another 330 and I can't see us using them on the mid haul routes. I reckon some could stand it (Tehran, Tel Aviv,) but I can't see the high-ups risking it in the current climate. In addition to job cuts I reckon lots of scale B pilots need to prepare for a pay cut.

[captplaystation]

In the distance he heard . . . . . . . . . . . :confused: tis Friday,and half the business day gone already, another wet fart ?

[Hudson Bay]

No announcement. Just more Rumours.

Bmi has plenty of cash in the bank, all 3 sections of the business is doing very well and nearly every Airline in the world wants a piece of bmi.

Those that can't afford a slice wants to see bmi fail because bmi are riding high. Just like a football team at the top of the league.

[frankie123]

It was posted on Tuesday that the Unions had all been told that the meeting on Friday was cancelled, so NO announcement was to be made. The meeting & announcement were not rumours - all union officials connected with Manchester were invited to be there at 1030 & the announcement was to be made at 1100. Why are people still waiting for an announcement that has already been cancelled!??

I'm sure it will be made sooner or later, but for anybody waiting for a big announcement today - don't hold your breath!!:ugh:

[babybaby]

Frankie,

You say Union officials connected with Manchester, but are they exclusive to Manchester or could they be the same for other bases, such as Heathrow? And are they bmi regional and bmi baby as well?


babybaby :{

[frankie123]

As I understand it - the only unions invited were connected to bmi mainline, not baby or regional & Manchester only, not LHR reps. I think we can all guess what that meant!

[BYALPHAINDIA]

BD's operations are like a 'Yoyo' at the moment.

Take the replacement of the A319/320 at LBA & MME, To a E 145.

What will they do when some of the flights are full??

And the MAN LH operations??

BD are not MAN's favourite Airline at the moment.

Are these operational decisions coming direct from Sir Michael or from Mr Reed & his troops??

Personally I think it's time Sir Michael hung his boots up, Stood down and gave way to a younger leader - A new pair of eyes on the job??

He's done his bit 30 + years.

Reading into Sir michael's life etc, I think He's now 'Stagnating' and running out of ideas.

It could be a change for the better for the future of BD/BMI.

He can't run forever??

[lexxity]

Mr Reed & his troops??

Do you mean Mr Turner? Mr Reed retired years ago.

[commit aviation]

Probably won't be full seeing as the morning first flight is after 08:00 from LBA. The early slots at LHR are being used by the mid haul services & as these are rumoured to be some of the most profitable bits that makes sense. The big picture and all that......

Ultimately the future is likely to be LH - not long haul but Lufthansa!

[Count von Altibar]

Absolutely, the December call option is just around the corner and we await the blitzkrieg! They said they were going to take us over so lets wait and see... In the meantime it does look like Manchester and the A330s won't be around much longer, sad for anyone involved there.

[6chimes]

BMI has just changed direction thats all. With the acquisition of Bmed they managed to get their hands on a lucrative market that was previously well out of their reach. That meant they could get away from the S/H market that is currently being filled with LO CO's slaughtering each other. It may have been a stroke of luck when they got Bmed but they have pretty much got the operation running well now and it is now the core business. L/H, domestics etc are now just additional slot keepers.

We have always known that if they could use the 330's out of LHR on routes where they could put around 40 business class seats then would be out of MAN like march hares. Anyone who joined bmi before L/H went to MAN knows that full well, for those that joined when the operation was up and running it would of been nice for them to have been told.

Having said that the owners of MAN will not want another large carrier pulling L/H routes from their airport and may tempt bmi to stay longer.

It may also be that they do get rid of the 330's all together and keep costs down in readiness for the great Lufty saga that will unfold in due course.

[frankie123]

Well - the announcement about the BIG announcement has finally been announced!!

It is on Wednesday 5th November at Donington Hall. Meeting with the Unions before Nigel Turner makes his important company announcement.

I think we all know what it's going to be!! very sad times ahead with a lot of people affected. :{

[lexxity]

I think the phrase is oh sh1t. Good luck guys and gals. Especially those of us at MAN.

[GLENO]

Will Guy Fawkes be attending??? Gunpowder......Donnigton Hall!!:}:}:}

Good luck to everybody involved at MAN!

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Quote
Having said that the owners of MAN will not want another large carrier pulling L/H routes from their airport and may tempt bmi to stay longer.

Reply
No they won't, And I don't think they would live to accept it?:*

BD have been at MAN about 12 years or so now, Remember when they started on the Dom flights.

For a long time BD were one of the few Carriers who didn't operate from MAN, And on very rare occasions our - LBA based DC9 called in.

If BD 'Fire' MAN up, MAN might tell BD to pull out altogether?

MAN's ultimatum might be - If your'e not going to run LH, Then why should you stay and run SH?:=

BD's SH routes are served by the remaining Op's.

BD need to be 'CLEAR' with the Airports they serve as to what their future plans are at the 5th November meeting.

Or it could be a 'Big' Firework Display not in their favour.:*

[GayFriendly]

5th November? Cancel the fireworks, dust off the German dictionary and learn how to pronounce Guten Tag properly, Lufthansa UK it's to be?? ;)

Seriously it will be a great loss if BMI stop l/h flying from MAN, as a former business travel agent I booked many a pax from MAN across the pond, most would request BMI as their first choice to get to ORD. Good luck to all of you involved if this is indeed what the announcement is all about. I wonder if there will be repercussions for Regional and Baby too?

[frontcheck]

Why would MAN airport tell bmi to pull out altogether?
If they were to do so , then they would have to do the same to BA:ouch:

[Whitehatter]

The omens are not good.

Caribbean routes bookable into 2009 (October) but the BD705/6 is now missing. flybmi dot com no longer carries Chicago as a destination and routes onward flights to the USA through heathrow on codescares.

[roy2711]

MAPLC asking bmi to pull altogether would be financial suicide for them at this particular stage in the game, what with all aspects of business suffering and the economy bleeding money:}
Lets all wait and see what this announcement will be! rather than spreading rumours and upsetting all and sundry.:mad:
However if it was to be bad news like bmi pulling the long haul routes then why would they call the press in, bmi are a limited co and not public and therefore are not required to announce any good or bad news to the press
So lets just wait and see :=

[davidjohnson6]

WhiteHatter - I'm a little puzzled about your post. I've just checked flybmi.com and found that BD705 from MAN to ORD on 9 Oct 2009 is available for booking.

Would you be kind enough to give a little more info as to what you meant by 'missing' or Chicago not being available as a destination ?

[mutualswap]

greyed out flights are available by selecting other fare types above
please select outbound and inbound flight to price your flight
Manchester International to Chicago O'Hare International - Friday 13 March 2009 departsarrivesflight numberduration 09:4013:15 BD705 (javascript:void(null))

8h35Chicago O'Hare International to Manchester International - Thursday 9 April 2009 departsarrivesflight numberduration 18:3008:05 *+1 BD706 (javascript:void(null))

7h35


i just tried and got this :rolleyes:

[lfc84]

I've found some great fares with bmi, I think it's a good idea to book them. They may not be this low for long. Get back to me quickly if you want me to book.
Manchester International to Chicago O'Hare International , Tuesday 06 October 2009

departing: 11:00 terminal 3 arriving: 13:15 terminal 5
flight no: BD705
fare type:
economy saver (W) fare basis: WLXGB9
Chicago O'Hare International to Manchester International , Thursday 15 October 2009

departing: 18:30 terminal 5 arriving: 08:05 *+1 terminal 3
flight no: BD706
fare type:
economy saver (W) fare basis: WLXGB9
price information
1 Adult at GBP 172.00 GBP 172.00
applicable taxes, fees and charges GBP 222.70

total price now including taxes, fees and charges GBP 394.70
British Midland Airways Limited trading as bmi, is registered in England and Wales, with registered number: 464648 and registered office: Donington Hall, Castle Donington, Derby, East Midlands DE74 2SB.


I don't know what you lot are on about

[brian_dromey]

I've heard on another board that WW, Regional and mainline are all to become one happy family, at least at MAN - not sure about elsewhere. Is this likely/possible?

Brian.

[bodgejob]

it seems like they are gearing up to flog the whole thing as one big package when the time comes for the buy out.

[North Stand Tier3]

Just announced bmi sold to LH

[Seljuk22]

Yeah and LH will use Slots at LHR before they go to others (BA, Virgin, EK...). So no good news for MAN.

[SR71]

Option exercised on Oct 10.

Now the nervous wait...

:bored:

[DeltaIndiaSierraPapa]

Found this today on the Frankfurt Allegmeine website. It reads:

FRANKFURT (Dow Jones)--Die Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Frankfurt, spricht derzeit mit der britischen Airline British Midland plc (bmi) und ihrem Hauptaktionär Michael Bishop über die künftige Struktur der Airline. Michael Bishop habe am 10. Oktober 2008 eine Option ausgeübt, die Lufthansa dazu verpflichte, 50% plus einer Aktie an bmi zu erwerben, teilte Lufthansa am Mittwoch mit. Diese Option sei Teil eines Shareholder Agreement.

Now my German is a bit rusty but I translate that as roughly:

FRANKFURT (Dow Jones) - The German airline Lufthansa has held talks with British Midland plc (bmi) and her main shareholder Michael Bishop about the future structure of the airline. Michael Bishop has exercised on the 10th October, 2008 an option which obliges Lufthansa to acquire 50% plus a stock in bmi, as informed by Lufthansa on Wednesday. This option is a part of a shareholder Agreement.

So it looks like Sir Michael has decided to bow out of the game. He has had a hell of a run and now LH looks set to completely dominate the European and North Atlantic skies with a MAJOR foothold at LHR. I bet this is exactly what Wee Little Willie was hoping would NOT happen!

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Yep, just read the announcement on the company intranet.

Interesting times ahead for BMI or should I say Lufthansa and its employees.

[Seljuk22]

LH announced Q3 financial report. On page 25 of the pdf a little bit more.

http://www.lufthansa-financials.de/servlet/PB/show/1027673/ZB3_08_e.pdf

[hunterboy]

Looks like BA are ****** then. Shame that UK plc didn't have the political muscle to be able to delay Open Skies. Yet again , it looks like UK companies will be the losers in another EU mandate.I wonder if it would have all gone through if it had been CDG that everyone had wanted to get into? I understand that more and more of BMI's engineering work is going East to be done by Lufthansa Technik. What price UK jobs ?

[ETOPS]

Just read the message on the BMI intranet - Lufthansa will take 50% plus one share. Changeover expected mid January 2009. No news yet about Regional or Baby...............

[speedtouch]

North Stand Tier3........Good Post....

[bmimainline]

LH to take controlling share in bmi - it is official. Better get the German phrase book ou!

29 October 2008

Dear Colleagues,

As many of you are aware from press speculation and comment, our two principal shareholders, Sir Michael Bishop and Lufthansa, have certain options over Sir Michael's majority shareholding in bmi, which were agreed when Lufthansa first became a shareholder in bmi in 1999.

On 10 October Lufthansa and Sir Michael Bishop on behalf of the BBW Partnership Ltd exercised an option which requires Lufthansa to purchase 50 per cent plus one share in British Midland PLC (bmi). It is expected that completion of the transaction will take place in mid January. In the meantime the Board and the management of the company will remain unaltered, but it is anticipated that alterations to the Board to reflect the new majority shareholding will take place on or around the date of the transfer of ownership.

This is a major change for bmi as Sir Michael has held a controlling interest in the airline since 1978. This brief note cannot adequately reflect his contribution to the company since joining the airline in 1964.

Discussions have already taken place with Lufthansa as to the future shape and direction of the bmi group. It is also worth remembering that Lufthansa have had representatives on our Board for the last nine years and therefore have a good view of all aspects of our business already. However, those discussions will now intensify and it would be wrong for me to prejudge the conclusions at this stage. Personally I am pleased that we are becoming a member of the Lufthansa family in this challenging time for our industry.

As soon as I have further details you will of course be advised. In the meantime please do not let the media interest or internal speculation about what may or may not happen as a result of the change in ownership distract you from the job in hand which remains just important regardless of who the shareholders are.

[RevMan2]

Expect a LOT of management level people being shown the door.

LH knows bmi inside out and knows EXACTLY where the dead wood is.

[bcn_boy]

Virgin + BMI would have been a better tie-up and better for competition at LHR particularly for transatlantic routes. LH will just begin to slowly asset strip beginning with WW and regional.

[rubik101]

DISP, your German/English is very good!

[beatrix]

That'll p*** off a certain other airline at LHR, bet Sir Richard must've choked on his coffee this morning :(

[harrogate]

Beeb story.

BBC NEWS | Business | BMI being taken over by Lufthansa (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7697261.stm)

[andy1205]

Bmi Has Been Sold To Lh

[harrogate]

Beeb story.

BBC NEWS | Business | BMI being taken over by Lufthansa (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7697261.stm)

[ara01jbb]

And the Times put the deal at £318 million.

Times Online: Lufthansa buys BMI for £318 million (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article5037031.ece)

[flyhigh2fly]

FT.com / Companies / Transport - Lufthansa to take control of BMI (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a87b5530-a59f-11dd-9d26-000077b07658.html)

[AngryBaby]

Ok guys, time to start speculating on what is going to happen to us as a group. Or more to the point are baby and regional going to be packed up and shipped off onto to someone else? Please NO!!!!!!

[eldbs]

ETOPS, British Midland PLC is the 90%+ owner of bmibaby Ltd and british midland regioanl limited. Lufthansa owns them too now!

[Re-Heat]

Shame that UK plc didn't have the political muscle to be able to delay Open Skies. Yet again , it looks like UK companies will be the losers in another EU mandate.I wonder if it would have all gone through if it had been CDG that everyone had wanted to get into? I understand that more and more of BMI's engineering work is going East to be done by Lufthansa Technik. What price UK jobs ?
We're not socialists in the UK - what would political muscle have done other than cause long-term decline to a business that needed a partner.

Long-term future of the airline is sorted, and a solid company is backing a solid business. Brilliant news all around.

[eldbs]

As to whether they will keep hold of loss making bmibaby and mainline, that's a different matter.
Maybe we'll pick up some work from Sterling going bust this morning though!

[AngryBaby]

Ha Ha eldbs! :D

An interesting point!

What would we have done this year without those pesky embraers to mop up some of the mess!

[FLAPS 10-100]

I fear the baby might be abandoned or even put up for adoption.

[AldiAl]

I wonder if there may be a niche for Baby within the Germanwings fold.

Don't LH own all/a large chunk of it?

Just a thought.

[captainspeaking]

In similar vein, I received this press release this morning from S7:

Statement from S7 Airlines:
At the request of the Takeover Commission in Austria, S7 Airlines can confirm that letters were sent to Österreichische Industrieholding AG (OIAG) and its advisors on Tuesday, October 21, and Friday, October 24, regarding Austrian Airlines.

The letters included an analysis by S7 of the current position of Austrian Airlines and the principles on which S7 would be interested in investing in it, and in continuing negotiations with OIAG. None of these letters represent an offer or a tender or a legal obligation to buy any securities from any party.

Given the current market conditions, a deferment in the process to allow further consideration of the business is the right way forward. We welcome the opportunity to further explore how our investment can both secure Austrian Airlines' future and enhance our own operations in Europe by developing Vienna as a key hub for our passengers.
We believe the strategy behind S7 offer will allow Austrian Airlines to have a strong, independent future, while also providing growth opportunities in line with S7's international ambitions. Our bid offers a strong, prosperous future for the group.

[AngryBaby]

Whats up bcn boy? Your dreams of flying for VA been dashed?

[hunterboy]

ReHeat....Sadly, I foresee an asset stripping exercise to recoup some of the money spent, then a Long haul operation set up at LHR to those lucrative routes out of LHR. Hopefully, local pilots will get a look in. BMI have already axed hundreds of engineering jobs 2 years ago. I foresee all base jobs going.

[silverstreak]

LH are going to be a hard nut to crack. They seem to be going from strength to strength and good luck to them :D

BA and VS must be sweating like the preverbial...

Hope LH invest in bmi and take Birdseed Airways FULL ON!

Let the games begin!

[Aerospace101]

sounds like Battle of Britain II

[speedtouch]

I am afraid there are not that many assets to strip. Like other airlines all bmi has is its trading name [a brand which is not that strong anyway]. However,I view this occurance as very much a positive thing. There will no-doubt be some pain, but regarding the 'dead-wood' above it needs to be done anyway. LHR is valuable, LH is making a play now so that when times become good they will be strong. Whatever operation is set up from LHR -they will need pilots, crew, eng's etc. they may wear different uniforms but they will have jobs [more than the poor souls at Sterling] The only concern I see is the smaller out-stations. There may be some significant changes there.

Good Luck to all. :ok:

[tornadoken]

Whyever do you moan that this is bad? MRO will go where it is best for the operation, under LH Technik, as it did/would have done under Sir MB. That will be EMA, or Jakarta, or Warsaw, iaw price/turntime/quality. The LHR slots misused for decades for low yield/load Teeside will now serve, as MB always intended, a big heavy route, risk of loss, prospect of profit taken by LH. Crew will be EU Nationals, iaw EU law: Brits if they meet LH standards and accept LH Ts&Cs - why would that be a problem?

UK would not have been able to fill, finance, or crew 3 overlapping long haul carriers, BA, VS, so BD had limits to growth. Now UK will have a presence on 4 consortia: BA in OneWorld; ex-Air UK in AF/KL/DL/NW SkyTeam; ex-Euro-BD in LH's Euro-Team - Air One, SK and the bug-smashers; and VS and ex-long haul BD in Star Alliance, led not by frail UA, but by LH. Is this bad? Logical next step is to run all Euro regions too small for a long haul hub, to feed MUC/FRA, thus giving all the "London Airways" protesters alternatives to LHR. BD was built, from the move from Burnaston to EMA, to be sold. Would you have preferred MB to sell to AF/KL? He grew the operation while all around every Dan died. If this had been my achievement I would have cashed in my £Mns. 20 years ago to lead a life of Riley. Instead the BD workforce faces a firmer future than many. Like Air UK in KLM, Dan in BA, you will change your identity.

[4engines4longhaul]

I do not think Sir Richard will have choked on his tea this morning, but tried hard to suppress a grin.:D

[Firestorm]

Isn't this all a great surprise! I'm off to brush down my Berlitz German course... Just in case :ok:

Maybe Luftie will turn BMI baby back into a proper airline instead of a bit of a joke.

[Curious Pax]

Radio 5 just did an interview with someone from LH (didn't catch their name/position) and although cagey about specifics he was pushing the line that the model they would use was the successful takeover of Swiss. People will know far better than I how welcome that is, but on the face of it Swiss have increased their fleet, and have new aircraft on order via their parent company, which suggests things may work out OK.

As a Manc I'm interested to see what they do at MAN. Whilst the demographics in Germany are different, LH seem happy to have multiple long haul bases in the same country, and will have the benefits of scale that bmi didn't previously. They have also expanded their own MAN operation substantially over the years. Time will tell....