average hours to go solo

[jxc]

Just curious as to what is the average amount of hours people do before going on their first solo ?

Cheers

[deltaxray]

Went solo at about 11 hours. I always though that 11/12 was average.

[Whirlygig]

Anything between 1 hour and 50 hours! There have been numerous threads on this in the past, mostly ending up being a competition with more and more ppruners giving fewer and fewer hours before their solo.

If I said the average was 5 hours, what does that tell you? That you're "better" or "worse"? What if the average was 10? 20? Or 3?

It all depends on the attitude of the instructor, the frequency with which someone flies, the nature of the aerodrome and its own requirements (i.e. between learning at an international airport or small airfield), the student's age and how quickly they have picked up things as well as their ability and confidence.

Cheers

Whirls

[17thhour]

I went solo at 17 hours... thats the figure i get when i take out a bunch of flights i took with the instructor just for the hell of it, like local fly-outs etc with the club, or ones just to get up as the weather wasn't good enough for much else...

but all that put in it'd be 20 hours...

Theres no decent "average" to be honest... people come out with 8 hours etc, but they forget to mention that they probably did gliding before, loads of UAS, or air cadets freebies etc. Or were in the military and it was condensed in.

Frequency of flying is also a BIG factor. I had month gaps between lessons on more than one occasion just due to weather alone.

To be honest though, if you were up there after just 8 hours flight, there would surely be things you couldn't handle. How can that whole pre-solo syllabus be put into just 8 hours anyway?

[Put1992]

There is no average.

There is one number, and that is the number that you fly solo at, so don't worry about what anybody else say's, especially if they say they did better than you.

[Whirlybird]

Some instructors will send students solo when they can just about manage to fly a circuit if all goes well. Others like to make sure they'd be able to cope with engine failure after take-off, complicated ATC instructions if things are crowded, or a diversion to another airfield if someone crashes on the runway (it's happened!). Most are somewhere between those two extremes.

Add to that different weather conditions, runway lengths and widths, frequency of flight, and type of aircraft, and you have a whole load of variables before you even consider student age, aptitude etc.

So there is no average. And if there were, if would be meaningless.

[S-Works]

I bet if you used the search tool you would find several hundred pages of discussion on this topic. Starting with a few pages of sense before sliding into abuse as those who took 2 hrs are abused by those that took 30 and so on. I will be this thread will slide that way.

It takes as long as it takes. Spend more timing practicing and less time worrying and it will come naturally.

[shortstripper]

You might be ready way before you solo. Often the weather plays it's part. No good for solo, but fine for other things ... so on go the hours. I was lucky with weather and was young so went solo quickly, but I'm certainly no great pilot. It's no race, and no disgrace to take a while. The thing is, we all go solo when ready (weather permitting) and are all as good as each other at that point!

SS

[Ivor_Novello]

The man asked about average

In typical pprune fashion everyone's given a short lecture, but the only appropriate answer would have been the number of hours after one went solo... after a significant number of answers we could add them up and calculate the average :)

Mine was after 13 hours ;)

Ivor

[chris 68]

i was asked if i wanted to go solo at 16 hours but promptly said no thank you not yet,

long story(did have 2 resonable time breaks though betwwen lessons)

[sternone]

Don't worry, i had around 45 hours when i went solo, but i felt that i could handle most of the things that could happen or go wrong.

I never understood how somebody with 8 hours total flying time that goes solo can be trained enough to deal with emergencys.

[Papa Charlie]

Don't worry, i had around 45 hours when i went solo, but i felt that i could handle most of the things that could happen or go wrong.

I never understood how somebody with 8 hours total flying time that goes solo can be trained enough to deal with emergencys.

Don't fly in a Mooney - I did mine in a DIAMOND (!) Katana in just less than 10 hours. ;)

[smarthawke]

I stand to be corrected but I think someones love of Mooney comes from having seen a picture of one, not learning to fly in the marque....

[shortstripper]

Chris68,

Yep, we could all give the hours that we took to get an average in hours. However, as was stated, that's happened before, and it just ends up as a bucnch of ego's trying to out do each other. It's pointless and makes no odds, so the average time taken is ... the time it takes!

No lecture, just common sense.

SS

[jxc]

Does anyone else ever get that feeling that maybe you just shouldn't have asked that question ! but hindsight would be great to own

[Viola]

If you must do something like this, perhaps the average number of landings needed would be more appropriate than the time taken? Some people have to do orbits, back-tracks, holds, extended circuits which all add time.

If you are asking because you're worried because of the amount of time you are taking - don't be. It might be because of the reasons above and if you so you are learning other skills rather than landing (even it it's just observation as you wait for someone else to take-off!). It might be because the weather is causing big gaps between lessons and holding you back - don't worry, flying is like that.

[Contacttower]

Apparently students at Embry Riddle in Florida were being sent solo in an average of 100hrs!

Sir Hugh Dowding went solo in less than two! :eek:

[llanfairpg]

I wonder if some of the above posters would say between 2 and 50 hours if they were asked the same question while selling a PPL course to a new customer

[Contacttower]

No, I doubt they would. 10-20hrs is probably what most clubs would say to a customer provided they flew reasonably frequently.

[llanfairpg]

I was called as a witness to an industrial tribunal once were A CFI did not allow students to handle the controls until around 20 hours!!!!l

[ShyTorque]

I went solo at 17 years of age (only just) after 7 hours, to a syllabus. As far as being able to cope with emergencies, it was a long time ago but I do remember being given many engine failures to deal with before being let loose.

My instructor, the late Cliff Barnett, just unexpectedly said: "Right, I'm getting out here - off you go and just see how much better it climbs with only you in the cockpit".

So I did.

An aquaintance, now in his late 70s (possibly older) rebuilt a Jodel at the age of 15 and taught himself to fly. Literally, his first solo was his first flight, although he had done a few runway hops before that.

[digital.poet]

I soloed in 35 seconds, would have been sooner but there was a gust of wind :}

Seriously though, for the purposes of working out the average, I soloed at 25 hours on the button. My instructor starting making noises about sending me around 18 or so but I decided that I very much wanted a say in the decision. This seems to be a bit unusual, infact some posters might remember the thread where I asked for advice on whether I should bite the bullet (I did :)). Some were a little incredulous that I even had a say in it, but to each their own.

On the subject of using it as some competition, I certainly understand how everyone wants to be thought of as a 'natural'. There is a feeling that if you don't achieve a stupidly low solo time then you are some how inferior, but the more I think about it, the less this makes any kind of sense.

Let me put it to you this way... I am still a student although I am hopefully heading into the home stretch. I *firmly* believe, that even as a student, if I were to take one of my non-flying friends up and purely drill circuits with them, even *I* could have them reach a point where they would have memorized the functions enough that they could do one on their own in say..... 5 hours (maybe even less). It wouldn't be a sensible or safe thing to do (which is exactly why it is not allowed!), but I don't think it would be that difficult.

With that in mind, it hopefully should put some perspective on the issue and demonstrate that teaching style affect pre-solo hours far more than the relative natural ability of the student. My first solo was one of the biggest moments of my life, and I very very proud of myself for getting to that point. It is a bit of a shame that we have this inbuilt competitive nature that forces us to judge ourselves by comparing with others. I am just very happy to be a member of the P1 club, and pretty soon your time will come, and you will be a member too, and whether its 5 hours, 20 hours or 50 hours, we can all raise a glass to ourselves and say, "We have done something very few people will ever do, lets be proud".

When Roger Bannister ran the 4 minute mile, who the hell cared how many hours training it took :ok:

[airmuster]

I remember my solo like it happened yesterday. My instuctor asked me to stop the a/c on the strip, then just opened the door and buggered off saying "off you go".

So away I went and what a feeling (which we all know) when those wheels first part company from mother earth. Then reallity sets in when you have to contact the tower and contend with traffic. Then on finals I was asked to go around as there was a RFDS flight wanting the same piece of mother earth that I wanted. That wasn't in the text book.

I have flown since I don't know when as I used to accompany my father on a lot of flights, and when he let me actually have the controls I had to use intruments as I could not see over the panel.

One thing I have learnt over the years, is that you are always still learning. Never think that you know it all as that is when it will bite you.

[Astral_Flyer]

Deary me.. What a question! One that has been covered by others here pretty well. I went solo (power) after I had done around 30 hours.. Up to that point I had done many landings at other airfields (including grass) I was able to demonstrate that I could select a field for an outlanding (my glider time came in handy for that). Added to that I went through a heck of a lot of different techniques like side slipping on approach, dealing with low level thermals on finals (i could have killed the local corn field for that).. The list goes on.

I'm sure that my instructor could have sent me off at least ten hours before he did. But when he did let me go. I certainly felt happy and able to deal with virtually everything that could be thrown at me..

On my solo they changed runways on me. Obviously I could have said (and my instructor made sure that it was my call as to anything they asked me to do) that I would prefer to use the runway that I took off from. I was happy to do as they say and it wasn't a problem. What I wasn't ready for, was the fact that the aircraft floated on and on (AA5) and I lost my nerve and opened her up to go around to try again.. Little hairy as I didn't anticipate the nose going up when I opened the throttle :eek: ...

It was another four hours before I went solo again.. I made sure that I got some practice in at going around at low level.. Different ball game to touch and go ...

Sorry to have gone on a bit.. But it may help others to decide when they may be ready.. Don't be in a rush. Try and get your instructor to cover some of the more unusual things, so that they don't bite you when you least expect it... Ohh!! And if you have any doubts or holes that you want filled before you go it alone.. For Gods sake speak to your instructor!! There is no shame in taking a bit longer before going solo. It's far better to be safe than end up a statistic somewhere.

Astral

[Stingaling]

I have watched this thread with great interest.

Done my fair share share of ab initio instructing, 1000 hours, getting on to 35 years ago.

One of the greatest joys I got from the job was sending a person on their first solo.

I got some "away" in 5 hours but it is risky, thinking back. It only takes something out of the ordinary to occur and there could be trouble. Others took quiet a bit longer, various reasons already discussed on this thread.

The hardest to try and teach were the young bucks who had lessons from a number of training establishments, or a friend or relative had taught them a bit, or had grown up around aircraft.. I.E., preconceived ideas which in most cases were hard to get around.

The easiest to teach were the young ladies of 16 or so, who had no preconceived ideas and would do what was asked.. In fact some couldn't even open the a/c door until well into the 2nd or 3rd leeson.

When I go back through a pilots logbook now and see that as a student they did some advanced exercises like steep turns etc., before going solo then I know they have had probably a good instructor.

The best environment to get someone away quick, is a non controlled airfield, no other traffic, grass and into wind. Do 1 lesson the first day and 2 lessens each day after but of course that is rare these days.

[Whirlybird]

As I've said on here before, it took me 48 hours to get to my first (fixed-wing) solo. Reasons were probably a combination of a difficult airfield (Welshpool), mediocre instruction, and my own problems - lack of natural ability and loss of confidence at an early stage due to a personality clash with an instructor. At the time I beat myself up over it, as we all do. But within a few months it made no difference at all. And now, as an instructor, it positively helps - I KNOW what it's like to struggle, watch others passing you, and wonder if you can make it. I also know what to do about it.

These days, people come flying with me on trial lessons, and more than one has marvelled at what they perceive as my "completely natural" flying ability. Me, a natural? That's a joke...though I did take to helicopters a little more quickly than f/w. But I only look like I was born in an R22 because I have hundreds of hours flying them. And that's how you learn to fly, and go solo - by practising. And if you need a little more practice than some, who cares?

Recently, after a student brought back an aircraft with no fuel in it, another instructor commented to me that you can teach someone to fly, but you can't teach them common sense. A good pilot is one who is safe and makes sensible decisions. It has little to do with ability to manipulate the controls or how quickly you learned to do that.

[philipnz]

I did 11 hours after which my instructor said next time i'd probably go solo. The owner of the plane wanted to be there so called him up on the instructors suggestion to have him over the next day. (he is the agent for the Remos i'm buying and i was using his for my training till mine arrived)

i had a big job at work i had to get done for the next day so i went in to the office that night - ended up working till 3am. I got home all hyped up about going solo the next day and didnt sleep. I arrived out at the airfield the next day with my eyes hanging out. We flew, i kept waiting for the magic "i'll get out now", eventually i got "just park it up"

i was gutted, i'd blown it - i wasn't ready, i knew i wasn't ready. My landings werent bad but both the instrucor and myself knew i wasn't ready. The next day i did my first solo after only 2 circuits with the instructor

so, 12 hours. but then it's only a microlight :O

[A and C]

Having instructed at an airfield that has to fly a large circuit because of noise abatement I would have said about 12-18 hours to solo but now I instruct at an airfield with a very tight 800ft circuit and the time to solo has reduced.

The concusion that I have come to is the hours to solo may have reduced but the number of landings to solo has not.

As the part of the circuit that most people find the hardest to achive is the touchdown it is critical to get the highest number of landings per hour.

So if you want to go solo quickly find an airfield at which the circuit wont take you on a cross-country.

[ShyTorque]

I totally agree that the amount of time taken to solo is not too important. Although I went solo with a fairly low number of hours, the following factors must be taken into account:

I was on a full-time residential course, an RAF Flying Scholarship, taught by civvy instructors. We had few outside distractions; we lived, breathed and dreamed aviation. We lived thirty yards from the aircraft.

I was just 17 yrs old. The benefits of youth are that one's brain is more likely to be relatively fresh and free of clutter (like worries about mortgage payments, sick kids back home, the argument with the wife this morning, etc).

The syllabus required us to go more or less on time. We were given a finite number of hours only.

We had all passed RAF aptitude tests for pilot. We were essentially, competing for a limited number of places to enter the RAF as pilots.

Although I "shone" a bit to start with, only few years later, in RAF training, I struggled more than a little and needed some extra hours to meet the standard required. My brain had other stuff going on, which provided a distraction, and I suffered a lack of continuity due to illness. I also had early doubts about my chosen path and had a personality clash with an instructor. In those days we were expected to be single pilot, steely-eyed killers who ate eat raw beef; anyone who didn't make the grade to fighter pilot was a substandard human being and threatened with being relegated to multi-engine or even worse, helicopters! We had to meet the continuous assessment standards. If we failed a trip (they were all assessed), we were given just five hours "flex" to pass a check-ride; if a pilot didn't meet the standard after that, essentially we got a "chop-ride" with the big boss and that usually meant the boot. The "chop rate" was high. I survived, by the skin of my teeth; however due to a medical problem (and probably a lack of suitable oulook / aptitude) I didn't make fast jets. I most certainly don't regret that.

Interestingly, some of the "Top gun hotshots" I knew from those days are no longer with us, lost to accidents, some early on. On the other hand, some of the strugglers and plodders became very accomplished pilots and made it to the top of the RAF.

This thread below is of interest:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=164794
See post #7.

I worked with Sqn Ldr Malcolm Hunt (know him quite well) whilst instructing. IMHO, He is absolutely correct that it would often have been better to give more hours to a "slower to learn" pilot than to chop him (there were no female RAF pilots back then) and just find someone else instead, as the RAF has done in the past.

What a "hotshot" pilot cannot get taught is experience. A "slower" pilot is often a safer pilot because of a more cautious or thoughtful outlook.

First solo is a very small step. What happens later is far more important, IMHO.

[PompeyPaul]

I did my first solo in around 10 hours. There again I flew twice a weekend and I was on the end of some great flying weekends with no breaks due to wx.

I think the question is relevant though. Given you are paying such a large amount of cash for a PPL it's good to have a yard stick as to how far you are against money and time spent.

I got my PPL on 45 hours, so using a sample size of 1 you can suggest solo at 10, complete at 45.

This is not due to some incredible aptitude on my part. It was due to having an incredible instructor, now I've been flying for a year and a half, I can look back and understand how lucky I was to walk into such a well run flight school. Especially when you read on here about others ending up not so well off.

Also I had no commitments, and the money to fly every weekend, plus I took a couple of weeks off work and worked 7 days a week 9:00->17:00 on the flying. Which again helped the solo'ing and completion.

I guess I'm just trying to get at, as others did, your natural ability doesn't have as large an impact on your solo time \ completion time as a whole bunch of other factors in your control.

[rolling20]

I failed to go solo after 8 hours in the UAS. Mind you it was over about 7 months of flying, which didnt really help!
Some ten years later i soloed in 6 hours and didnt know what the fuss was all about!
I guess the key is consistency and a 'cool head', something i lacked when i was 19!!!

[digital.poet]

Just out of interest, and addressed to Roger10-4, PompeyPaul and others with short solo times...

When somebody say they flew their first solo in say, 15 hours, I conclude that they took to the circuit work very quickly, however you guys state 6 and 10 hours respectively, I had a feeling that I hadn't even started in the circuit by this time so I checked my logbook, and for reference here are the first few entries...

Hour 1: Air experience flight
Hour 2: Effects of controls
Hour 3: Straight and Level flight
Hour 4: Climbing and descending
Hour 5: Turning
Hour 6: S&L, C&D and Turning review
Hour 7: Power off stalls
Hour 8: Power on stalls + Spin recovery demo (:yuk:)
Hour 9: Slow flight
Hour 10: Begun circuit work
.
.
.
Hour 25: First solo

The space inbetween hour 10 and 25 was a mix of EFATOs, Go arounds, glide approaches, flapless approaches and repeating regular circuits.

I had always kind of assumed that it was this space (10-25) that varied for students. I like to believe that every student does at least a couple of EFATOs and go arounds before first solo.

As there seems to be a near consensus that pre-solo hours are not a definate guide to a students ability, I am interested in how your training differed as this seems to be the crucial point. These threads generate the same points over and over, but I dont think I have seen any that discuss the pre-solo training given.

I would think that hours 3, 4, and 5 in my above list are the only ones that would be considered absolutely mandatory before starting circuit work. Is this a fair assumption? Did everybody work through stalls and slow flight pre-solo? How many EFATOs and Go arrounds?

Would be nice to see some examples of how training differs between schools.... and over the years from some of the more.... 'seasoned' pilots ;)

[sternone]

You have to know that alot (not all) of those people who go solo in 6 or 8 hours usually have been flying alot with their dad or something like that.

[frog_ATC]

As said above, no general rule for the solo...

I soloed after something like 16 hours, I was 15 years old (French regulation allows that).

As an instructor, I trained a lot of PPLs on an uncontrolled airfield, so I wanted to make sure they could divert if needed with no ATC assistance.
That's why I preferned no to hurry to let them solo, so never less than 12 for me, most of them more than 15.
We desagreed on that point with the chief pilot, he often endorsed students for solo with less than 10 hours.

I endorsed a bunch of students for the solo...
No average for the solo, it depended mainly on the intensity of their training, and on their age.
Don't think that the youngest the best, not always...

Young pilots are good at repeating exactly what you show them, and for maneuvers, but they are less good at making a decision because have a lack of maturity.
And sometimes you explain them something, they understand... but forget after 48 hours.

Older pilots need more time to understand and copy what you show them, but they understand more deeply, and are more calm, more mature, and make better decisions.

The one I'm very proud of : it was not his first solo, it was is first tailwheel solo that I endorsed.
But damn ! it took a while !

This nice guy was a former taxi driver in Paris. He had spent his life dreaming about flying.
He took his first flying lesson at the age of 62. I was not the instructor. He told me it took a while for him to get his PPL...
He remembered those pretty Pipercubs when he was a young boy, and there was one at the airclub, a L18 more exactly.
He really wanted to fly it.

He told me "you know I'm a bit old, I will probably need time to be able to fly it".
I answered "OK so we'll take time for that !"

I do not remember how many hours we flew together.
But if you had seen this smile when he taxied back after his "first" solo on the Piper... :-)

Frog

[jollyrog]

Solo at 25hrs, skill test at 60 hours.

I'm not unhappy with that. My FI(R) referred me to the CFI when he thought the time was right for both solo and skill test and on both occassions, he was spot on as the CFI agreed.

I was eager at the time, but looking back (2 years to the solo), it made perfect sense. You can't get that licence before 45 hours, so what's the rush?

Despite the approval of two instructors for that first solo, I landed and steered the aircraft betweek two rows with no parking spaces, a fence at the end and no room to turn round, so had to shut down and call on the radio for a push.

Not all mistakes will happen in the air on that first solo! Reasonable flight but made a t1t of myself at the end! :O

[Whirlybird]

digital.poet,
Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery. And I too can't see how you could fit it all in to less than ten hours, and I'm curious.:confused:

[BackPacker]

Me: 20.1 hours and 63 landings before first solo. Done in nine days on one of those three-week courses in Florida. My instructor thought I was ready for solo at 15 hours, but then weather and circumstances (including an instructor change) conspired against it.

My first cross-country solo was at 24.6 hours total flight time and the qualifying xc was the flight straight after that, at 26.5 hours, three days after going solo. Before going solo I had already done a lot of dual cross-country work. Not just diversions to nearest alternate but proper 2.5 hour x-country flights which, if done solo, would have fulfilled the qualifying cross country conditions. And I already had a nautical navigation diploma, which helped a lot.

[S-Works]

digital.poet,
Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery. And I too can't see how you could fit it all in to less than ten hours, and I'm curious.

There is no minima for any of the exercises before solo. At least according to my Instructor manual 'Instructional Techniques For The Flight Instructor'.

[octavian]

I can't help but feel that a good instructor will know when the time is right for you, the student to take that step. Trust his or her judgement. He/she won't let you loose if he/she doesn't believe you can do it. The paperwork that follows would be just too much hassle. You, the student, will probably also have some idea that the time is about right too, and like that first time you headed off on your bike without the stabilisers or a caring hand on the saddle, it has to be done. If you're not prepared to trust your instructor's judgement, see the sentence at the end of the next paragraph.

Whilst there may not be a particular "right" number of hours, there may (must/should) be a point at which either student or instructor will recognise that this just isn't working out. That may be the time to call it quits and go and do something else and, just out of curiosity, how goes the bike riding?

I was somewhat taken aback to be discussing hours with a young chap and his dad recently to find that the lad had done 25+ hours and was still not off by himself. Perhaps the lack of an air law pass was affecting things, but hey.... come on.

From the many books written by heroic aviators like Bader, Stanford-Tuck, Oxspring and, perhaps also the not-so-heroic, and the like I would guesstimate that around 8-12 hours is about the norm for a first solo, and often it is better to have it sprung upon you at the time rather than having a couple of nights to dwell upon the prospect. If it affects you that badly, then refer to the last sentence of the second paragraph

My Dad, a 20 year old RAFVR cadet pilot (young whippersnapper) soloed on Tiger Moth T5842 on 6th April 1944 at RAF Shellingford after 9hrs 35mins dual in 18 flights

His KOS of a son (a bit over 50 years old at the time) managed it at in 11hrs (Dad's still one up on me there), after 9 flights in a PA38, at Sleap in 2003, and I would have to say that I was surprised and delighted when told to go off and do a circuit by myself. I trusted my instructor's judgement, and maybe mine. Thanks Alan.

As with passing your driving test, you learn more when you are in sole command, so it is with this flying malarky. The first solo is a milestone and just another point from which more learning develops. Every time I fly I learn; whether with an instructor, or solo or with passengers. Recognise that you cannot ever know it all at any particular point in time, but if you want to learn and develop your skills and experience you will.

Octavian

[shortstripper]

Well, like I said ... not really very important as circumstances differ for almost everyone. Here's my example to show how difficult it is to make any sense of what the "average" is.

I flew gliders before power, so obviously knew the basics before I ever flew powered aircraft. My times were ... 3.5 hrs from zero to first glider solo (34 landings). Then 9 hours to go solo in a DH82a Tigermoth, having gained 19 hours, (200 landings) in gliders and a bronze C. I took my skills test at 35 hours, but my qualifying cross country was delayed by three months due weather then lack of money. I completed my PPL with 43 hours, exactly two years after my first powered flight.

The gliding was a good grounding and as you can see, you certainly get to practise landings! You might clock more hours in gliders these days as they are more efficient (my average training flight was about 4 minutes!) but the older gliders were great for learning quickly.

I might have gone solo faster if the training had been more consistant or in an "easier" type than a Tigermoth. Then again, I may have taken longer if I'd not flown gliders first or been older, or caught bad weather, or had an instructor I clashed with, or, or, or ....

See what I mean? It's almost pointless to try and compare oneself to the "average".

SS

[pulse1]

I don't think that "time to solo" has much meaning when it comes to assessing one's prowess as a pilot.

I had a very similar route to powered flight as shortstripper but, thanks to some amazing instruction from two RAF test pilots, I soloed in 3.5 hours in a DH82A. Thirty years later with about 75 hours I started to fly again after a break of 23 years. This time it took me about 5 hours to solo in a Cessna 152.

This year I will celebrate, hopefully, having my PPL for forty years but, with over 300 hours in my logbook, I am only too painfully aware how slow I have been to learn some fairly basic aspects of flying that others seem to grasp very quickly. A big thanks to many pprune posters for helping me along the way.

[AerocatS2A]

Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery. And I too can't see how you could fit it all in to less than ten hours, and I'm curious.

Ok, I solo'd relatively quickly, here are my first exercises:

Flight 1 - Trial flight
Flight 2 - Effects of controls
Flight 3 - Straight and level
Flight 4 - Climbing and descending and medium turns
Flight 5 - Basic stalls
Flight 6 - Circuits
Flight 7 - Circuits
Flight 8 - Circuits
Flight 9 - Circuit emergencies
Flight 10 - Circuits, diversion airfield check, engine failures
Flight 11 - Circuits
Flight 12 - Solo

Each flight was about half an hour (shortest 0.4, longest 0.7) in an uncongested environment requiring minimal transit times to the training area. I flew once a week as that was all I could afford. My instructor was aware of my finances and tried to be efficient with his training regime.

I'd also previously flown a glider to solo so many of the initial lessons were just a refresher.

[juliet india mike]

I think the number of landings is more important than total hours in the logbook. I soloed at 19 hours I had just over 80 landings, which is a function of how busy your airfield is, how fast your aircraft and how long your circuit. After 1st solo, everything happened really quickly to a point with circuit bashing, then slowed and went backwards after a 6 week gap and I had to relearn how to land before starting solo cross countries. Nevertheless I completed the general skills test at 46.3 hours and somehow regretted it a little because learning had been so much fun! Now however I am learning with every flight, just without a formal syllabus, and still having fun.

Looking back on it, time to solo is about as relevant as your grades at A level or your degree classification. Means nothing after a day has passed. (Except you'll remember it forever. It is definitely up there with getting married, birth of your children etc)

[Monkeeeey]

Solo at 25 hours after progress check with CFI

L1. Trial
L2. controls
L3. Straight and Level
L4. Use of Flaps
L5. Instrument flying
L6. Climbing/Descending
L7. Climbing/Descending
L8. Slow Flight/Low level flights
L9. Medium level turns/Climbing Turn/Descending Turn (power/flaps)
L10. Stall and Recovery
L11. Incipient Spin/ Recovery from unusual Attitudes
L12. First Circuits
L13. PFL's
L14. Circuits
L15. Flapless/Glide/EFATO
L16. Circuits
L17. Circuits
L18. Circuit Joins/ Overhead/Crosswind/Base
L19. Diversion X2 T/G at alternate
L20. Circuits
L21. Circuits
L22. Steep Turns/Compass Turns
L23. Circuits
L24. Circuits
L25. Progress check with CFI - SOLO

[Whirlygig]

Interesting Roger, that you didn't cover PFLs before your first solo.

Cheers

Whirls

[Monkeeeey]

Roger , your preflight briefings must have gone on for hours...:eek:

[digital.poet]

Very interesting folks, thanks for posting.

Roger, wow, you did cover a lot very quickly. I found it very difficult to keep the contents of a single pre-flight briefing in my head, but to come to terms with all that stuff in that speed is very impressive.

Whirly, actually I didn't really do any PFLs pre-solo either. I guess that the main part of PFL is to get yourself into a sensible orientation for a glide approach. In the circuit I am either in that position or too low in which case it is the EFATO, land ahead and upset the poor farmer a little, and upset his poor sheep quite a bit :}. An engine failure early down wind might have been a bit of a tricky situation. Would probably have to hope that any traffic taking off can get out of my way as I land back the wrong way. Failing that, there is a nice little golf course in that position. Apparently the golfers are always complaining about the noise even though the airfield predates the golf course by at least 50 years. I would love nothing more than to put it down on the fairway! :ok:

Monkeeeey, your pre-solo lessons look quite similar to mine. I am intrigued about how early you did instrument stuff though. Did you just have a marginal day and decide to drop it in rather than staying on the ground? Instrument flight before C&D and turning seems a little bizarre. Isn't this exactly what you did on instruments?

I have to say I enjoyed my instrument appreciation. Probably my favourite individual lesson with the exception of first solo. The 'fly for 2 minutes with your eyes closed' was a riot, I thought I was doing so well until my instructor told me to open my eyes, when I saw the clouds at 40 degrees across the screen the dialog went like this...

Me: Fffffffffu.......I was going to use a very rude word then
Instructor: Yes, I saw it forming on your lips

:ok:

I hope the IMC remains viable for me to take after my PPL. I love being up above those clouds and actually find VOR navigation about a hundred times easier than visual nav.

[mad_jock]

well its all up to my ticket.

Although i will admit now I can't sign you off now.

I have sent folk out with 10 landings under thier belt if the gut says OK thats what I used to go on.

If you are pish you will solo in 20+ if you are **** hot you will solo in 5 hours.

It is my lic and its my call and its to be honests f*ck all to do with the student.

Sorry to be horrible but thats it. Our Lic our call and I never did and never will pander to trainees flying on my ticket when they are pish.

[shortstripper]

Our Lic our call and I never did and never will pander to trainees flying on my ticket when they are pish.

Is this a foreign langauge forum? Oh! I see you're a Scottish gentleman ... perhaps that explains it? :p ;)

SS:ok:

[digital.poet]

Mad Jock,

Had I not had the foresight to look down and see your post count, I might have considered your post a windup.

It's probably best that I am not your student, aside from the obvious language barrier, I have a feeling we wouldn't exactly.... gel. What with me being 'pish' and you taking the attitude of my training having 'f*ck all to do with me'. My lawyer does not talk about me being 'pish' or tell me that the services he are provided are 'f*ck all to do with me'. As I pay a similar price for my flying training, I would expect a similar level of service. Fortunately, I get that from my current instructor.

I don't spend a huge amount of time north of the border so I am not entirely certain whether describing a person as 'pish' represents a suitable level of professionalism up there, but from my perspective that sounded very derogatory and as someone who was a 20+ solo student I take that fairly personally. I might not be the fast learner in the world, and perhaps I am slightly more cautious than most, I don't even mind being publicly criticised, I simply prefer that those that do criticise do so using a level of articulation greater than that of Rab C. Nesbitt.

Thanks

[Whirlygig]

I hope Mad Jock was "pish"ed when he wrote that! :}
Cheers

Whirls

[Whirlybird]

Rumour has it that Mad Jock is a hell of a nice guy and a very good instructor. He probably was 'pished' when he wrote that...or deciding to stir up the discussion a little bit. ;) Well, sorry MJ, but this is a Rumour site. ;):)

[ShyTorque]

Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery.

Whirly, to be honest, as it was thirty five years ago, I can't remember. The exercise numbers are in my original logbook (well into volume 5 now) but I think the syllabus has changed a few times since (e.g. no spinning now, we did that quite early on) so quoting them here wouldn't prove anything.

Whirls, PFLs were taught but they involved landing on the runway, or straight ahead if that wasn't possible (EFATO). A helicopter won't often make the runway from the circuit so PFLs per se (off airfield) are given more priority earlier.

The RAF fixed wing syllabus put PFLs away from the circuit near the back of the book. My Bulldog instructor course development notes have them at chapter Y!

[mad_jock]

Whirly's have it right. And yes it was a bit of a wind up.

There are so many things which effect the decision to send someone solo.

The training required is alot of the time dependent on the local area. Down south I can fully appreciate why the FI's need to require a far better grasp of more of the course than we did up north with no controlled airspace for miles around. The poor chap who crashed down south is an example of that. So it really is meaningless comparing times unless you were at the same field with the same instructor.

As for the language barrier, I can assure you that the instructor after me had to have a local dictionary given to him. The poor chap was from Devon and for a week was telling everyone he was away for fud for lunch. Which means something totally different up here.

[wsmempson]

There always seems to be a bit of a scramble to go solo quickly (which, I suspect, stems from the RAF training programme which used to wash-out students who didn't solo after a set no. of hours); ultimately, this doesn't seem to have much bearing on the quality of the 'finished' pilot, as those that solo quickly are sometimes slow to grasp RT or Nav.

There was one chap at our flying club who literally took hundreds of hours to get his PPL and I think he fell into the camp of those who really shouldn't be flying at all - like little old ladies on their 12th attempt at a driving test - otherwise most people tend to solo at somewhere between 10 and 30 hrs.

However, if you're learning to fly, I wouldn't obsess about this issue - just enjoy the experience of learning. It'll happen when you are ready and not before!!

[Shortsighted Gink]

20hrs to solo at the age of 44; flying 2 hrs a month.

Though the only people who are at all interested in posing the question are those yet to solo; the point being after it's been done

it simply doesn't matter!!!!

[digital.poet]

Whirly's have it right. And yes it was a bit of a wind up.

Haha, I did suspect this but wasn't completely sure. In which case, I apologise for going all surly on you :p

[silvereagle]

9.5 on fixed wing and 8.2 on rotary - but that was military - and a long time ago! I tend to agree with those who have been saying - it doesn't matter. Also the vast number of hours that some people have in their log books doesn't really matter either. It is currency (or recency) that matters. I would rather fly with someone who has flown recently rather than someone who has a dusty old log book tucked away. We had a rule in my unit that if you hadn't flown for 31 days you flew with a QHI (Qualified Helicopter Instructor) before you went back on the line.

[Monkeeeey]

mad_jock The poor chap who crashed down south is an example of that

Correct my intructor did make it clear to me that processes had changed at most airfields/schools since that tragic incident. To send someone with just 5 hours at EGKA on a weekend would be insane.

Digital.Poet I am intrigued about how early you did instrument stuff though.

Thats how i did my first rate 1 turn :-)

It was my instructor proving a point, she noticed that I used the instruments too much and kept my eyes inside for far to long. Made me wear those funny glasses and then asked me to climb/turn/decsend did ok with that. While climbing she sneakily applied a little rudder, I did not notice that the AC had started to bank until I had looked back at the DI/AI, could not feel it at all. Lesson learnt about using your horizon as a reference and keeping your eyes outside as much as possible.

[mad_jock]

digi no need, you were quite right sticking up for yourself.

I am sure you wern't pish when you went solo. Otherwise you wouldn't have been sent. And pish isn't to bad actually only one up to "you will do"

I haven't been solo for years, would seem now very strange not having someone sitting next to me taking the mick out of my landings.

[crispey]

I'm forever grateful to my instructor for my first solo(Sleap 1975)We took a while to get to that stage from Manchester International as no student solos were allowed there so EMA.BPL,SLP etc were the favoured places.All of which meant you usually got to about the 12 to 15 hour mark before you did your first solo.All that extra flying was well worth it in my view.

I was impressed by my instructors intuition.He knew,and I knew,that the time was right.It wasn't intuition really I guess.More likely he was a first class instructor who knew his job and his student!

His name was Ron Robinson(A Brazilian amazingly with a name like that)and I believe he went toDan Air eventually.I heard him overflying Stoke in a 146 a few years ago.

A fabulous day in any pilots life but for me the long cross country was the best.

[chris 68]

Chris68,

Yep, we could all give the hours that we took to get an average in hours. However, as was stated, that's happened before, and it just ends up as a bucnch of ego's trying to out do each other. It's pointless and makes no odds, so the average time taken is ... the time it takes!

No lecture, just common sense.



shortstripper,

i think you should read my post again,before your curt comment,i think you will find i didnt solo then as i said NO,i was making the point its not a rush you go when your instuctor thinks your ready and you feel comfortable.

please feel free,to comment about me again.

chris

ps iv had a long day.

[AerocatS2A]

I once met someone at an aeroclub whos introduction went like this:

"Hi, I'm Andrew, I went solo in 6.2 hours."

:hmm:

[Whirlybird]

Hi Andrew, I'm Whirly, and I learned to fly properly before I went solo. :ok: (Na-na-na-NA-na)

Hey, this is fun. We could have a competition - the best putdown to comments like that. Yeah, I know, time I grew up. :(

[Monkeeeey]

"Hi Andrew, Rod Machado's Flightsim school doesn't count and looks like one of the twelve pens you have in your top pocket has just leaked"

[PompeyPaul]

"Hi Andrew, come and post on pprune you'll find lots of like minded people."

[shortstripper]

Chris 68 ...

Ouch! Where did that come from? I can't see what in your original post would have prompted me to even comment. Are you sure you haven't deleted a bit?

Anyway, whilst the post was addressed to you in answer to what you had written (I'm still puzzled as to why I addressed to you having looked back?) I certainly didn't direct the comment at you. I was trying to point out that there is no race to see how quickly one can solo, and that in the past posts on a similar theme have often just degenerated into ego chasing. I'd certainly not have been digging at how long you did or didn't take to solo. Read my other posts within this thread to get a flavour of where I'm coming from, and you'll realise that I wouldn't have been. If you took offence then sorry, it wouldn't be the first time someone has taken my post different to how it was meant.

SS

PS. I've re-read the thread to try and figure why I would have addressed that post to you as it puzzled me. I think I can see my mistake :\ If you read Ivor Novello's post, (just above yours) then my post makes sense as a reply to that one. I think I must have confused the two and replied to you as if you'd written Ivor's one. So sorry about that! :ok:

[sternone]

Hi Andrew, despite what many people think of me on PPrune, i try to learn flying the good way, i solo'd at 44 hours, i do alot of extra training that most people never do because i wan't to be a good pilot, and alot of people hate me over here because Diamond planes really suck !!

[S-Works]

Wow it did not take long to sink to the usual insults. We must be within a couple of posts of moving onto a discussion of the IMCR maybe even how many hours did you do your IMC in and then how many hours did you do the IR, tailwheel, CPL or how many hours before you got a job.

Loads more scope for slinging abuse at each other.......
:ugh:

[shortstripper]

My point exactly Bose-x! Sad innit? :rolleyes:

SS

[S-Works]

I don't know if it is me or is that every thread that appears on here these days just slides into abuse and spiteful personal attacks?

I think I will leave you all to it and head for friendlier climes.

[shortstripper]

Sod off then! I've always thought you're nowt but a miserable @%$$1!! ;) :p

SS :ok:

[mad_jock]

If we are going down the petty insults line.

All PFA members smell of wee and oil

SS eats twiglets and Bovril sandwich's.

Female Pilots are all slightly mad. (but lovely though)

And BRL is a scouser who can't hold his beer



MJ :p

[IO540]

There is a formula going around, scarily accurate it is too, which is something like

#hrs = age/2

Or maybe I am getting it confused with the total time to get a PPL - (age/2)+30 would be about right.

I went solo in about 15hrs I think.

It's utterly meaningless because so much depends not only on aptitude but also how well you click with your instructor. This all happens at a time when the student is very green and would not spot a bad instructor from a good one, so not like to do something about it e.g. change schools. I have met at least two PPLs students who were to 100hrs and not went solo, which shows what is possible.

The preoccupation with "going solo" is counterproductive. In the USA it has been shown that one can turn out perfectly good PPL/IR pilots with about 50-70hrs of all-dual scenario based flight training. But aviation is full of ancient elitist practices and proving that you can "go solo" is one of them. You may as well be required to wear a leather apron and bare the left part of your chest while swearing the Masonic oath to never bust controlled airspace :)

[Whirlybird]

But aviation is full of ancient elitist practices and proving that you can "go solo" is one of them.

I'd agree in part, IO540 (You and I agreeing; is that a first? :);)) However, as an instructor I'd say that going solo does two things - it increases a student's self-confidence, and also makes him/her a lot more careful and self-reliant once they realise they're on their own up there. So I think you need to do it...but who cares when?

[chris 68]

Chris 68 ...

Ouch! Where did that come from? I can't see what in your original post would have prompted me to even comment. Are you sure you haven't deleted a bit?

Anyway, whilst the post was addressed to you in answer to what you had written (I'm still puzzled as to why I addressed to you having looked back?) I certainly didn't direct the comment at you. I was trying to point out that there is no race to see how quickly one can solo, and that in the past posts on a similar theme have often just degenerated into ego chasing. I'd certainly not have been digging at how long you did or didn't take to solo. Read my other posts within this thread to get a flavour of where I'm coming from, and you'll realise that I wouldn't have been. If you took offence then sorry, it wouldn't be the first time someone has taken my post different to how it was meant.

SS

PS. I've re-read the thread to try and figure why I would have addressed that post to you as it puzzled me. I think I can see my mistake :\ If you read Ivor Novello's post, (just above yours) then my post makes sense as a reply to that one. I think I must have confused the two and replied to you as if you'd written Ivor's one. So sorry about that! :ok:



short stipper,

my appologies,was a bad long day,i hadnt changed or deleted my post,and i think you may of mixed the posts up as you said, that aside i was a little harsh, and you live a little to close for comfort and you may be bigger than me:ouch::):)

[Fake Sealion]

My first solo cost me a fortune..........not cos of the cost of a huge number of hours (It was UAS!) - but rather it was traditional to fund a 9 gallon barrel of beer in the bar!:ok:

Quite a hit for a first year Uni Student!:*

btw - Time to solo 9 hrs over 5 months.

[17thhour]

btw - Time to solo 9 hrs over 5 months.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek:

o0o0o0o0o0

...lol kidding on..'ish..:}

[shortstripper]

my appologies,was a bad long day,i hadnt changed or deleted my post,and i think you may of mixed the posts up as you said, that aside i was a little harsh, and you live a little to close for comfort and you may be bigger than me

LOL! I very much doubt it, the short in shortstripper doesn't just refer to my airstrip :\ Mind you, the bigger they are .... :E

SS

[llanfairpg]

but who cares when?

You should, as an instructor

[IFMU]

23 hours to solo in fixed wing. Before I soloed we had covered emergency procedures, flight by instrument reference (not much in a 1946 pa12), pilotage & dead reckoning, stalls, wheel and full stall landings. We didn't do spins until later. Then it took me about 8 hours to solo in helicopters, after I had my fixed wing PPL. At the time, it sort of mattered to me, though as I've gotten older I realize it matters not at all.

-- IFMU

[Whirlybird]

You should, as an instructor

What I meant should have been obvious from the context of my post!

[llanfairpg]

What is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another but you knew that being an instructor!

[llanfairpg]

By the way you missed out that going first solo increases the rate of learning and brings into play the natural ability that we all have to learn without being instructed.

[Whirlybird]

True. In fact, I've often told students I can't teach them to hover, just prevent them killing themselves while they learn.

[llanfairpg]

Excellent!

[Crash one]

Curious that most posts here seem to follow the line "It doesn't matter how long you take but I took ***.* hours to mine!!!".
I'm not telling you how long I took, but I did have four of them. One in 1956 in a glider (ATC), Two, in a glider 1980, Three, Cessna 150 1986, Four, Cessna 152 2006, NPPL 2007 July. Enjoyed every minute, & will say that each successive solo took longer to reach. Age does that!

[Monkeeeey]

whats the normal drill after you do complete your first Solo? More circuits with a solo flight every lesson? How long does this go on?

[17thhour]

normally its solo consolidation after a check with your instructor at the start, aka a few circuits on your own instead of just the full stop...

weather/ traffic dependent of course.

[Shunter]

Generally a few hours of solo circuits, with a checkout circuit at the start of each session.

Incidentily, I was around 20hrs when I first went solo. Passed skills test with 45hrs exactly, so all this 'I went solo after 7 hours' rubbish has no bearing on how long it will take you to complete.

[millard64]

Don't be fooled into thinking there is a set time scale for going solo. It will be upto your instructor to decide when your skills are of a satisfactory standard and you are safe with the aeroplane and competent with the R/T. I did my first solo at 11.5 Hrs, but as in previous replies everybody is different. One word of advice is when the moment arrives enjoy it as there will only ever be one first solo in your time as an aviator.

[Monkeeeey]

That's good as the following lesson there was a fair crosswind so we did 4 circuits then he sent me off to do couple on my own and it went down as progress check again, so sounds like its all back on track.

On the last solo circuit it got quite interesting was advised number 3 when late downwind with a diamond star up my backside, could not get visual with the number 2 AC, already extended downwind finally got sight of him turning final 4 miles out to sea! Bet the CFI was having kittens...he told me that he'd not paid any attention and left me to it, but I bet that radio was on and the binoc's out...'Whats that idiot taking my plane to france for???' :-)

The extra hours in the circuit really paid off, not sure I would have been quite so comfortable with the traffic if I had only done a couple of hours circuits before being on my own.

[PompeyPaul]

...this month's Pilot magazine has a pull out on flying schools and learning to fly. In it they say that average solo time is 8 to 10 hours.

[Ken Wells]

When I was teaching I tried not to dwell on the time it took to send a student solo.

The most important aspect is that they are still enjoying flying. If they enjoy it, they learn faster.

We used to have the Air Traffic Control contract at RAF Woodvale, in those days you had to be able to send a student solo in 8 hours to keep the contract.
ATC students got 10 hours free flying as part of their training.

Some wanted to learn some did not.

I can remember on the first day getting a bunch of ATC studients to take the Airlaw exam, prior to the weeks flying training. We assumed that as ATC students they would have aleast studied this manditory exam prior to solo. The average mark was 38% well below the 75% pass rate.

Apathy was rife with this particular group and I went ballistic at the shear waste of flying resources based on non ATC students that had to skimp and safe just to progress their training. We sent two home on the first day and the rest bucked their ideas up and I am glad to say eventually went on to to complete their PPL.

So many factors contribute to going solo. Weather being a major factor. It might be fine for dual instruction but not fit for first solo. Also consistancy most students learn at weekends etc so will only do 4 or 6 hours a month due to finance and time. This group will take longer than those who fly every day on a consolidated course. The consolidated courses quote the fastest 0 to Solo time.

When I learnt finance was a problem I went solo in 20 hours. Over the years I have flown various types. Tail wheel solo was 2 hours. Helicopter solo was 8 hours. Experience helped alot.

So don't worry about how long it takes, you are still learning and hopefully still enjoying it.:D